Re: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
Lynn Parday does manage to keep a pretty positive spin on things, but I
think you have to be positive to do the things that she and her husband
have done over the years.
She lets slip a little of the less than enjoyable in her recounting of
the voyage from Japan to BC. This had to be a voyage from hell, I can't
imagine being on a small boat in the North Pacific for well over a month
without dry heat in the form of wood or diesel outside vented stoves.
The had a propane stove which would leave the interior a cold dripping
dungeon in those conditions. They also almost did themselves in with
Carbon Monoxide.
I am with the coastal cruising crowd, way up a shallow inlet snugged
down with a good novel.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
think you have to be positive to do the things that she and her husband
have done over the years.
She lets slip a little of the less than enjoyable in her recounting of
the voyage from Japan to BC. This had to be a voyage from hell, I can't
imagine being on a small boat in the North Pacific for well over a month
without dry heat in the form of wood or diesel outside vented stoves.
The had a propane stove which would leave the interior a cold dripping
dungeon in those conditions. They also almost did themselves in with
Carbon Monoxide.
I am with the coastal cruising crowd, way up a shallow inlet snugged
down with a good novel.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
>
>>>I haven't a clue where
>>>we all get the urge to cross oceans
>>>Peter
>>>
>>>
>>I, for one, can point to the book by
>>Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small Income_
>>
>>
>
>
>Ah ha! Just as I suspected,a romantic lured by far-away tales :-)
>
>It is a fun read,not unlike the series of Pardeys Seraphyn
>adventures and like the Pardeys,Hill pretty much glosses over the
>daily hrumph-n-grunth realities of life on a floating micro-island
>heaving itself around the liquid surface of this planet.Also,like
>the Pardeys, the best parts all involve the much anticipated
>landfall with colour commentary about the local
>people/customs/habits/food/blah/blah......
>
>Of course,dreams are always free and some may be worth following,if
>only for purely selfish reasons :-)
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Peter Lenihan,armchair sailor extordinaire,elbow-bender debonair and
>common boat-bum without flair,from along the shores of the mighty
>St.Lawrence,surounded by cold aire..............
>
>
>
>
>
> > Launch is tentatively scheduled forMore akin to postpartum apprehension. <g>
> > the weekend of October 23rd.
> You must be one excited puppy right about now...
> Sincerely, Peter...
I know I love building boats, I am not so sure
yet about using them. :/ Add to that, I don't
yet know which little (or big) things will go wrong
or need correction, to be revealed upon first use.
But then, I suspect that once I get past the
drum roll and uncertainty, it seems likely that
I will have the hippest, most capable pocket
cruiser around. Especially compared to the
thousands of boat-show-cookie-cutter,
"deep draft in a shoal world", overpriced,
glossy broken dream, big outside/small inside,
soulless plastic wannabe racer/cruiser hybrids
(& doing neither right) sailboats common 'round here.
[That is not intended as a dump on *all* plastic
sailboats, a few are perfect for their owners,
but most are not IMO. The same could be said
for many wooden ones too, I suppose.]
The biggest challenge in choosing a boat is truly
knowing yourself and predicting what you want.
I recall L.F. Herreshoff wrote that you need
three tries to get it right.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Bruce!!!Hurray! and Hip!hip! too! If the 23rd becomes untenable,you
might try for the 24th(my birthday!) and we can keep track of who
lasts the longest with the least signs of wear-n-tear :-D
I hope you get the most perfectiest,sunniest,loveliest weather for
your launching and that all goes off with easy aplomb and little
sweat.
You must be one excited puppy right about now...........I know I
would be!
Oh...and try to not pollute the environment too much with alcohol
spilling from broken bottles....much better to store it all safely
inside your belly :-) Have you got a name for her/him yet?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who will raise a toast to this most imminent
launch,hopefully with the other Bruce H. at my side from within the
comforts of my bowshed/boatshop when le Mouton Noir de Kingston
comes-a-callin' one of these fast approaching weekends along the
banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway..............
> FWIW, yesterday I got my hull certificate back fromfwiw?FWIW? It's worth a ton of good news and pictures to boot
> the revenuers! Launch is tentatively scheduled for
> the weekend of October 23rd.
Bruce!!!Hurray! and Hip!hip! too! If the 23rd becomes untenable,you
might try for the 24th(my birthday!) and we can keep track of who
lasts the longest with the least signs of wear-n-tear :-D
I hope you get the most perfectiest,sunniest,loveliest weather for
your launching and that all goes off with easy aplomb and little
sweat.
You must be one excited puppy right about now...........I know I
would be!
Oh...and try to not pollute the environment too much with alcohol
spilling from broken bottles....much better to store it all safely
inside your belly :-) Have you got a name for her/him yet?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who will raise a toast to this most imminent
launch,hopefully with the other Bruce H. at my side from within the
comforts of my bowshed/boatshop when le Mouton Noir de Kingston
comes-a-callin' one of these fast approaching weekends along the
banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway..............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
It is a fun read,not unlike the series of Pardeys Seraphyn
adventures and like the Pardeys,Hill pretty much glosses over the
daily hrumph-n-grunth realities of life on a floating micro-island
heaving itself around the liquid surface of this planet.Also,like
the Pardeys, the best parts all involve the much anticipated
landfall with colour commentary about the local
people/customs/habits/food/blah/blah......
Of course,dreams are always free and some may be worth following,if
only for purely selfish reasons :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,armchair sailor extordinaire,elbow-bender debonair and
common boat-bum without flair,from along the shores of the mighty
St.Lawrence,surounded by cold aire..............
> > I haven't a clue whereAh ha! Just as I suspected,a romantic lured by far-away tales :-)
> > we all get the urge to cross oceans
> > Peter
>
> I, for one, can point to the book by
> Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small Income_
It is a fun read,not unlike the series of Pardeys Seraphyn
adventures and like the Pardeys,Hill pretty much glosses over the
daily hrumph-n-grunth realities of life on a floating micro-island
heaving itself around the liquid surface of this planet.Also,like
the Pardeys, the best parts all involve the much anticipated
landfall with colour commentary about the local
people/customs/habits/food/blah/blah......
Of course,dreams are always free and some may be worth following,if
only for purely selfish reasons :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,armchair sailor extordinaire,elbow-bender debonair and
common boat-bum without flair,from along the shores of the mighty
St.Lawrence,surounded by cold aire..............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
$250/month:-)
For us who don't feel like sailing you fly over to Britain and buy
one. There is a link to the sellers building site and it looks like
he did a great job of building:
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F31564/
Wonder why he is selling it?
Interesting to compare the interior to Leo's AS29 which also serves
to keep me sort of on topic:-)
Cheers, Nels
> It really isn't so much selling Badger as it theand then
> cruising life style; e.g. no car, no fancy clothes, English health
> insurance, no meat, no kids, etc. They worked to build a nest egg
> lived off the investment income. For unexpected expenses they'danchor for
> a while and work. (Tip. Many countries don't want foreignerstaking jobs
> from natives, so limit your paid efforts to other yachts anchoredin the
> harbor.)Well I pretty much qualify, since I hear that they were living on
$250/month:-)
For us who don't feel like sailing you fly over to Britain and buy
one. There is a link to the sellers building site and it looks like
he did a great job of building:
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F31564/
Wonder why he is selling it?
Interesting to compare the interior to Leo's AS29 which also serves
to keep me sort of on topic:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
JC with a dory with just over half JC's displacement.
Howard
> I believe Bolger compares a dory hull to a square one, but I can'tIt was, but the comparison wasn't entirely valid, as he was comparing
> recall where I saw that. Maybe it was a St. Pierre dory to Jesse
> Cooper.
JC with a dory with just over half JC's displacement.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
the interface of sea and shore to be much more interesting and
entertaining. 2) On the ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24.
I've spent a lot of time in small boats, some of it well offshore,
and never found the ocean boring. There's too much happening: other
boats, changing weather, changing waves and currents, birds, sunrises
and sunsets, fish etc. A month crossing the Atlantic could be a
different matter, though.
My sole experience of being in a sailboat out of sight of land was
when someone wanted me to help him deliver his 30-footer from
Alexandria to Cyprus, during the first Gulf war. It wasn't boring:
the route cut across the Mediterranean approach to the Suez Canal.
You can imagine the traffic. His idea of night sailing was to run the
engine, set the sails, the autopilot and the radar proximity alarm,
have a couple of beers and go to sleep. I tried to keep watch while
he was asleep, but he couldn't see the point of it.
Howard
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> I have two problems with crossing oceans. 1) Once you get out ofsight of land, one piece of ocean looks a lot like the rest. I find
the interface of sea and shore to be much more interesting and
entertaining. 2) On the ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24.
I've spent a lot of time in small boats, some of it well offshore,
and never found the ocean boring. There's too much happening: other
boats, changing weather, changing waves and currents, birds, sunrises
and sunsets, fish etc. A month crossing the Atlantic could be a
different matter, though.
My sole experience of being in a sailboat out of sight of land was
when someone wanted me to help him deliver his 30-footer from
Alexandria to Cyprus, during the first Gulf war. It wasn't boring:
the route cut across the Mediterranean approach to the Suez Canal.
You can imagine the traffic. His idea of night sailing was to run the
engine, set the sails, the autopilot and the radar proximity alarm,
have a couple of beers and go to sleep. I tried to keep watch while
he was asleep, but he couldn't see the point of it.
Howard
According to O'Brian, the British East Indiamen would heave to at night.
Pull down all sail except a steadying trysail on the mizzen. The older
ships with high poop decks could lie ahull in a storm like a duck.
I've thought a radar detector on the top of the mast would be a useful
gadget, but I'm not sure how directional those things are.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Pull down all sail except a steadying trysail on the mizzen. The older
ships with high poop decks could lie ahull in a storm like a duck.
I've thought a radar detector on the top of the mast would be a useful
gadget, but I'm not sure how directional those things are.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...>
> I have two problems with crossing oceans. 1) Once you get out of sight of
> land, one piece of ocean looks a lot like the rest. I find the interface
> of sea and shore to be much more interesting and entertaining. 2) On the
> ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24. Like all night long. And the crew
> has to keep hours that I find unpleasant. I'm willing to sail all day and
> part of the night if I can anchor at the end of the day and sleep for
> awhile, but you can have 4 hr. watches!
The moderator of the discussion group seems to have vanished. Some others
have commented.
The appendix to the book "Voyaging on a Small Income" includes abbreviated
study plans for several boats including both the 34' Badger and (I think)
the 37' version. I built my model, partly from what's in the book and
partly from the study plans.
Check outhttp://www.benford.us/index.html?dories/index.html
There are several keels designed for "Badger." Pete and Annie started with
the concrete/steel punchings design and later replaced it with a fancy
winged keel. The wings gave stability while "drying out on the hard" and
they did have a set of legs for security. The keel I was planning for gave
a draft of 3.5' using a full length keel with 4000 lbs of lead fastened on
with bronze bolts and drifts.
For the first few years of cruising the Hill's had no motor, just a box
where it would go someday. Eventually they put in a little (18 hp) diesel
with a sail drive, sort of like what I was planning. You can sort of get
the idea fromhttp://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Bmin.htmlif you scroll down
aways.
An earlier boat of theirs had the classic wine glass section and they
mention having to leave it at anchor and go camp ashore because the rolling
was so bad. Pounding was not mentioned as an issue with Badger.
It is a great book. It really isn't so much selling Badger as it the
cruising life style; e.g. no car, no fancy clothes, English health
insurance, no meat, no kids, etc. They worked to build a nest egg and then
lived off the investment income. For unexpected expenses they'd anchor for
a while and work. (Tip. Many countries don't want foreigners taking jobs
from natives, so limit your paid efforts to other yachts anchored in the
harbor.)
Annie mentioned how impressed a bunch of sailor guests were when they went
sailing on the spur of the moment once. Maybe ten minutes from deciding to
go to being underway. The more modern "classic" yacht takes much longer to
bend on the sails, weigh the anchor, etc.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
have commented.
The appendix to the book "Voyaging on a Small Income" includes abbreviated
study plans for several boats including both the 34' Badger and (I think)
the 37' version. I built my model, partly from what's in the book and
partly from the study plans.
Check outhttp://www.benford.us/index.html?dories/index.html
There are several keels designed for "Badger." Pete and Annie started with
the concrete/steel punchings design and later replaced it with a fancy
winged keel. The wings gave stability while "drying out on the hard" and
they did have a set of legs for security. The keel I was planning for gave
a draft of 3.5' using a full length keel with 4000 lbs of lead fastened on
with bronze bolts and drifts.
For the first few years of cruising the Hill's had no motor, just a box
where it would go someday. Eventually they put in a little (18 hp) diesel
with a sail drive, sort of like what I was planning. You can sort of get
the idea fromhttp://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Bmin.htmlif you scroll down
aways.
An earlier boat of theirs had the classic wine glass section and they
mention having to leave it at anchor and go camp ashore because the rolling
was so bad. Pounding was not mentioned as an issue with Badger.
It is a great book. It really isn't so much selling Badger as it the
cruising life style; e.g. no car, no fancy clothes, English health
insurance, no meat, no kids, etc. They worked to build a nest egg and then
lived off the investment income. For unexpected expenses they'd anchor for
a while and work. (Tip. Many countries don't want foreigners taking jobs
from natives, so limit your paid efforts to other yachts anchored in the
harbor.)
Annie mentioned how impressed a bunch of sailor guests were when they went
sailing on the spur of the moment once. Maybe ten minutes from deciding to
go to being underway. The more modern "classic" yacht takes much longer to
bend on the sails, weigh the anchor, etc.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
>> As one who was convinced by Annie Hill, I agree, and once you
>> get religion, it's hard to give it up. I'll rig the Chebacco as
>> designed,
>> first, but I'm scouting for Tyvec and bamboo.
>>
> Hi Roger,
>
> I haven't had the opportunity to read the book. Any place one can
> find the specs for Badger? Don't suggest the discussion group - I
> tried to join that twice and nothing happened except a message to say
> he would get back to me.
>
> What size and type of keel does it have and how is it fastened? What
> size engine does it use? How much fuel does it carry? That sort of
> stuff. I know Benford advertises it as cheap to build. Cheap being a
> very relative term in boat building:-)
>
> I can see where the Junk rig would be pleasant downwind wing on wing
> with no fear of jibes. If you have to go upwind did they motorsail.
>
> How much does it heel on a reach?
>
> I believe Bolger compares a dory hull to a square one, but I can't
> recall where I saw that. Maybe it was a St. Pierre dory to Jesse
> Cooper. JC seemed to have several advantages. A dory hull would not
> pound as much and not be as noisy at anchor though.
Hey! They gave up the vegetarian stuff after a few years, and the didn't
get scurvy.
I thought beer was just grain that has been allowed to get good and rotten,
like sour kraut for cabbage and kippered herring.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
get scurvy.
I thought beer was just grain that has been allowed to get good and rotten,
like sour kraut for cabbage and kippered herring.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "I,
> for one, can point to the book by Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small
> Income"
>
> I agree on the book Bruce, a great read, with lots of good insights
> on long term cruising.
>
> But the ocean crossing part, nah!
>
> They ate pulses, PULSES for Pete's sake. Beans, lentils, mungs, even
> grains like oats and millet, etc. Dried tofu and fruits! Dried nuts
> even!
>
> Where's the beer?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
I haven't had the opportunity to read the book. Any place one can
find the specs for Badger? Don't suggest the discussion group - I
tried to join that twice and nothing happened except a message to say
he would get back to me.
What size and type of keel does it have and how is it fastened? What
size engine does it use? How much fuel does it carry? That sort of
stuff. I know Benford advertises it as cheap to build. Cheap being a
very relative term in boat building:-)
I can see where the Junk rig would be pleasant downwind wing on wing
with no fear of jibes. If you have to go upwind did they motorsail.
How much does it heel on a reach?
I believe Bolger compares a dory hull to a square one, but I can't
recall where I saw that. Maybe it was a St. Pierre dory to Jesse
Cooper. JC seemed to have several advantages. A dory hull would not
pound as much and not be as noisy at anchor though.
Thanks, Nels
> As one who was convinced by Annie Hill, I agree, and once you getreligion,
> it's hard to give it up. I'll rig the Chebacco as designed, first,but I'm
> scouting for Tyvec and bamboo.Hi Roger,
>
I haven't had the opportunity to read the book. Any place one can
find the specs for Badger? Don't suggest the discussion group - I
tried to join that twice and nothing happened except a message to say
he would get back to me.
What size and type of keel does it have and how is it fastened? What
size engine does it use? How much fuel does it carry? That sort of
stuff. I know Benford advertises it as cheap to build. Cheap being a
very relative term in boat building:-)
I can see where the Junk rig would be pleasant downwind wing on wing
with no fear of jibes. If you have to go upwind did they motorsail.
How much does it heel on a reach?
I believe Bolger compares a dory hull to a square one, but I can't
recall where I saw that. Maybe it was a St. Pierre dory to Jesse
Cooper. JC seemed to have several advantages. A dory hull would not
pound as much and not be as noisy at anchor though.
Thanks, Nels
John-
Though the ocean seems to be in some ways like a larrge dessert, devoid of life and in teresting features---- it is full of many interesting things(life, floatsum, etc.) it changes color with the weather,; and the speed of wind and waves. Even though the shore has it's interests and features--- the interfase between the shore and the the sea is a very dangerious place to be. aboat can always lie a hull once out of site of land or when prudent and a naval hero John Paul Jones started the 4 on 8 off that is a tradition that make the seas a safer place---and there's always the joy and the parting that rightfully goes on when one makes a good crossing-jim
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
I have two problems with crossing oceans. 1) Once you get out of sight of land, one piece of ocean looks a lot like the rest. I find the interface of sea and shore to be much more interesting and entertaining. 2) On the ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24. Like all night long. And the crew has to keep hours that I find unpleasant. I'm willing to sail all day and part of the night if I can anchor at the end of the day and sleep for awhile, but you can have 4 hr. watches!
John T
Though the ocean seems to be in some ways like a larrge dessert, devoid of life and in teresting features---- it is full of many interesting things(life, floatsum, etc.) it changes color with the weather,; and the speed of wind and waves. Even though the shore has it's interests and features--- the interfase between the shore and the the sea is a very dangerious place to be. aboat can always lie a hull once out of site of land or when prudent and a naval hero John Paul Jones started the 4 on 8 off that is a tradition that make the seas a safer place---and there's always the joy and the parting that rightfully goes on when one makes a good crossing-jim
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
I have two problems with crossing oceans. 1) Once you get out of sight of land, one piece of ocean looks a lot like the rest. I find the interface of sea and shore to be much more interesting and entertaining. 2) On the ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24. Like all night long. And the crew has to keep hours that I find unpleasant. I'm willing to sail all day and part of the night if I can anchor at the end of the day and sleep for awhile, but you can have 4 hr. watches!
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hector
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "I,
for one, can point to the book by Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small
Income"
I agree on the book Bruce, a great read, with lots of good insights
on long term cruising.
But the ocean crossing part, nah!
They ate pulses, PULSES for Pete's sake. Beans, lentils, mungs, even
grains like oats and millet, etc. Dried tofu and fruits! Dried nuts
even!
Where's the beer?
I'd rather fly across eating a rubber chicken in 4 hours and rent or
buy a boat on the other side.
Even shipping your own as deck or container cargo would be better.
I remember watching a video on the Learning Chanel, or some such,
where a lady in a round the world solo race was crying into her
camera. "I'm so totally bored!" and the like as she recorded herself
in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
Bruce Hector
The only nut I want on my boats is a Bolger Nut, like that wacky
Peter Lenihan. Who doesn't have to climb the mast and sound like an
acorn to catch a squirrel.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have two problems with crossing oceans. 1) Once you get out of sight of land, one piece of ocean looks a lot like the rest. I find the interface of sea and shore to be much more interesting and entertaining. 2) On the ocean, the boat has to be sailed 7-24. Like all night long. And the crew has to keep hours that I find unpleasant. I'm willing to sail all day and part of the night if I can anchor at the end of the day and sleep for awhile, but you can have 4 hr. watches!
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hector
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "I,
for one, can point to the book by Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small
Income"
I agree on the book Bruce, a great read, with lots of good insights
on long term cruising.
But the ocean crossing part, nah!
They ate pulses, PULSES for Pete's sake. Beans, lentils, mungs, even
grains like oats and millet, etc. Dried tofu and fruits! Dried nuts
even!
Where's the beer?
I'd rather fly across eating a rubber chicken in 4 hours and rent or
buy a boat on the other side.
Even shipping your own as deck or container cargo would be better.
I remember watching a video on the Learning Chanel, or some such,
where a lady in a round the world solo race was crying into her
camera. "I'm so totally bored!" and the like as she recorded herself
in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
Bruce Hector
The only nut I want on my boats is a Bolger Nut, like that wacky
Peter Lenihan. Who doesn't have to climb the mast and sound like an
acorn to catch a squirrel.
Bolger rules!!!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "I,
for one, can point to the book by Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small
Income"
I agree on the book Bruce, a great read, with lots of good insights
on long term cruising.
But the ocean crossing part, nah!
They ate pulses, PULSES for Pete's sake. Beans, lentils, mungs, even
grains like oats and millet, etc. Dried tofu and fruits! Dried nuts
even!
Where's the beer?
I'd rather fly across eating a rubber chicken in 4 hours and rent or
buy a boat on the other side.
Even shipping your own as deck or container cargo would be better.
I remember watching a video on the Learning Chanel, or some such,
where a lady in a round the world solo race was crying into her
camera. "I'm so totally bored!" and the like as she recorded herself
in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
Bruce Hector
The only nut I want on my boats is a Bolger Nut, like that wacky
Peter Lenihan. Who doesn't have to climb the mast and sound like an
acorn to catch a squirrel.
for one, can point to the book by Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small
Income"
I agree on the book Bruce, a great read, with lots of good insights
on long term cruising.
But the ocean crossing part, nah!
They ate pulses, PULSES for Pete's sake. Beans, lentils, mungs, even
grains like oats and millet, etc. Dried tofu and fruits! Dried nuts
even!
Where's the beer?
I'd rather fly across eating a rubber chicken in 4 hours and rent or
buy a boat on the other side.
Even shipping your own as deck or container cargo would be better.
I remember watching a video on the Learning Chanel, or some such,
where a lady in a round the world solo race was crying into her
camera. "I'm so totally bored!" and the like as she recorded herself
in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
Bruce Hector
The only nut I want on my boats is a Bolger Nut, like that wacky
Peter Lenihan. Who doesn't have to climb the mast and sound like an
acorn to catch a squirrel.
As one who was convinced by Annie Hill, I agree, and once you get religion,
it's hard to give it up. I'll rig the Chebacco as designed, first, but I'm
scouting for Tyvec and bamboo.
At my age, the idea of teetering around on a tiny triangle of a foredeck
while wrestling a Genoa just doesn't appeal. Sure, when I was 20 it was
neat to stand there with an arm around a pretty girl and the other on the
forestay while the bow plunged thru the waves. But, 20 year olds are bullet
proof and my arms must be shorter. (I'd never suggest the lass's waists
were larger.)
If I remember right, once the rig is up, there are only three lines to be
tended; the sheet, the halyard, and the luff-hauling-parrel. The latter two
only come into play when reefing. Annie describes tacking quickly with Pete
at the helm and herself backwinding the foresail to swing the bow around.
Gybes are a non-event, and "gentlemen don't sail to windward."
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
it's hard to give it up. I'll rig the Chebacco as designed, first, but I'm
scouting for Tyvec and bamboo.
At my age, the idea of teetering around on a tiny triangle of a foredeck
while wrestling a Genoa just doesn't appeal. Sure, when I was 20 it was
neat to stand there with an arm around a pretty girl and the other on the
forestay while the bow plunged thru the waves. But, 20 year olds are bullet
proof and my arms must be shorter. (I'd never suggest the lass's waists
were larger.)
If I remember right, once the rig is up, there are only three lines to be
tended; the sheet, the halyard, and the luff-hauling-parrel. The latter two
only come into play when reefing. Annie describes tacking quickly with Pete
at the helm and herself backwinding the foresail to swing the bow around.
Gybes are a non-event, and "gentlemen don't sail to windward."
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Sometimes the Junk rig association almost seems like a cult,
> attributing characteristics to the rig that are mystical:-) I wonder
> how many lines there are on a junk schooner rig? Where would you
> arrange them all and keep them sorted out?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
of general information on the site as well, including changes that
others have made and then regretted! Seems Leo has adapted the Tanton
version of the kitchen and ladder arrangement. Also he refers to the
aftmost mast as a "mizzen".
Sometimes the Junk rig association almost seems like a cult,
attributing characteristics to the rig that are mystical:-) I wonder
how many lines there are on a junk schooner rig? Where would you
arrange them all and keep them sorted out?
Leo does really nice work and I wish him the best and thank him for
the nice website.
Cheers, Nels
> > Cheers, NelsVery interesting and thanks for forwarding the update. There is a lot
>
>http://www.leow.de/index.html
>
> Shows Leo's AS-29 website. It looks like he has
> abandoned the leeboard idea, but is still building
> a two mast AS-29 with a junk rig. I agree with
> PB&F that having a tabernacled mast in the bedroom,
> is less than desirable. I can imagine some wet bedding.
>
of general information on the site as well, including changes that
others have made and then regretted! Seems Leo has adapted the Tanton
version of the kitchen and ladder arrangement. Also he refers to the
aftmost mast as a "mizzen".
Sometimes the Junk rig association almost seems like a cult,
attributing characteristics to the rig that are mystical:-) I wonder
how many lines there are on a junk schooner rig? Where would you
arrange them all and keep them sorted out?
Leo does really nice work and I wish him the best and thank him for
the nice website.
Cheers, Nels
> Cheers, Nelshttp://www.leow.de/index.html
Shows Leo's AS-29 website. It looks like he has
abandoned the leeboard idea, but is still building
a two mast AS-29 with a junk rig. I agree with
PB&F that having a tabernacled mast in the bedroom,
is less than desirable. I can imagine some wet bedding.
The Bolger post was in 1999, and the recent photo's
are from Dec.2003, so Bolger's scepticism about
'saving time' seem well founded.
Two years into my Micro Navigator project, I should
not be the first to cast stones.
FWIW, yesterday I got my hull certificate back from
the revenuers! Launch is tentatively scheduled for
the weekend of October 23rd.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
A copy of this post should be included with every set of Bolger
plans:-)
Cheers, Nels
> > Bruce,Thanks Bruce,
> >
> > that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
> >
> > Graeme
>
>
> Probably this post
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1256
>
> Reading the other posts in that thread gives light to my
> overrating of the capacity of an AS29, too.
A copy of this post should be included with every set of Bolger
plans:-)
Cheers, Nels
> Bruce,Probably this post
>
> that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
>
> Graeme
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1256
Reading the other posts in that thread gives light to my
overrating of the capacity of an AS29, too.
> I haven't a clue whereI, for one, can point to the book by
> we all get the urge to cross oceans
> Peter
Annie Hill, _Voyaging on a Small Income_
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
All excellent points.It has been my observation,with a bit of
experience tossed into the mix,that spending days out in the middle
of a bleak ocean sea-scape is both bone-numbing in its' constant
restlessness and a sink-hole for mind states.I haven't a clue where
we all get the urge to cross oceans from but I suspect a large part
of its' composition is a purely romantic form of escapeism(sp).
Indeed and perhaps sadly,for many a sailor,an actual ocean
crossing becomes a once-in-a-life-time-event.That is,they no sooner
arrive from abroad and the boat is up for sale and they take up lawn
bowling.At least that is something I have come across in a few ports
of entry on the east coast.Those who go back for more invaribly are
cranked-up-die-hard-thrill-seeking-trans-oceanic-racers for whom a
contest with the perfect storm would be just about right for
spitting adrenalin from out of your tear ducts.
Of course,there may be some financial reasons for wanting to take
a boat cross an ocean, along with other notions of "discovery" and
that's alright too. But in the end,I'll take that tranquile
cove/bay/inlet/harbour any day over the vaste sterile expanse of
ocean and when I want a romantic thrill....well I'll just wait for
the small craft warnings to go up,crack open a fresh bottle of
Porto,take off my glasses and head out onto the mighty St.Lawrence
and play"chicken" with the traffic in the Seaway..............the
stories I could tell...heeeehawwwww!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who is reminded that a chap once rowed a skiff across
the Atlantic and the Titanic sank..........
wrote:
>> The point is that many boats CAN cross oceans but are sub-optimal(especially)
> for the purpose, and there are many ocean routes where the chances
> of good weather are high. For a once-in-a-lifetime crossing, a
> sailor might take a boat that requires higher risk and
> more work to sail because he wants to have the boat when he getsto
> the other side.Peter V.,
All excellent points.It has been my observation,with a bit of
experience tossed into the mix,that spending days out in the middle
of a bleak ocean sea-scape is both bone-numbing in its' constant
restlessness and a sink-hole for mind states.I haven't a clue where
we all get the urge to cross oceans from but I suspect a large part
of its' composition is a purely romantic form of escapeism(sp).
Indeed and perhaps sadly,for many a sailor,an actual ocean
crossing becomes a once-in-a-life-time-event.That is,they no sooner
arrive from abroad and the boat is up for sale and they take up lawn
bowling.At least that is something I have come across in a few ports
of entry on the east coast.Those who go back for more invaribly are
cranked-up-die-hard-thrill-seeking-trans-oceanic-racers for whom a
contest with the perfect storm would be just about right for
spitting adrenalin from out of your tear ducts.
Of course,there may be some financial reasons for wanting to take
a boat cross an ocean, along with other notions of "discovery" and
that's alright too. But in the end,I'll take that tranquile
cove/bay/inlet/harbour any day over the vaste sterile expanse of
ocean and when I want a romantic thrill....well I'll just wait for
the small craft warnings to go up,crack open a fresh bottle of
Porto,take off my glasses and head out onto the mighty St.Lawrence
and play"chicken" with the traffic in the Seaway..............the
stories I could tell...heeeehawwwww!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who is reminded that a chap once rowed a skiff across
the Atlantic and the Titanic sank..........
Bruce,
that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
Graeme
that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I forget where Bolger wrote about his criticism of Badger
> and her deep draft.
Bruce,
that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
Graeme
that might be the early posts here by Suzanne A.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I forget where Bolger wrote about his criticism of Badger
> and her deep draft.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
Romp was: "... designed as an efficient though austere home for two
people for months at a time and to carry them to Hawaii (or Australia
if it suited them) with fair efficiency". He goes on to discuss why
he thinks this relatively narrow, high-wooded hull would be more
seaworthy than wider deeper hulls. He says: "It's been argued, with
good reason I think, that shallow boats are the most seaworth". There
is more.
None of it makes Bolger necessarily correct, but it does tell us his
opinion of the design.
Howard
wrote:
> > > Bolger designed Romp for a sailor to go across the Pacific.My understanding is quite different. In Different Boats, PCB says
>
> No. The boat was designed as a liveaboard, not an ocean voyager. I
> believe it's true that the prospect of trans-oceanic travel was
> voiced at the start, but that was not the object.
Romp was: "... designed as an efficient though austere home for two
people for months at a time and to carry them to Hawaii (or Australia
if it suited them) with fair efficiency". He goes on to discuss why
he thinks this relatively narrow, high-wooded hull would be more
seaworthy than wider deeper hulls. He says: "It's been argued, with
good reason I think, that shallow boats are the most seaworth". There
is more.
None of it makes Bolger necessarily correct, but it does tell us his
opinion of the design.
Howard
> I wonder which Bolger sailboat(s) you would point to asFrom BWAOM, the Offshore Leeboarder, Ataraxia.
> 'ocean crossers', Fiji would have to be one, any others?
From 30-Odd Boats, Titania, Hesperus, Apogee
From Different Boats, Solution, Swedish Cruiser, Bird of Dawning.
Also perhaps, AntiSpray.
Peter
The buoyancy, strength and
my microesque navigator. No way the house would withstand a massive
blow. Even if the windows held, not sure the house would. Mine is
held on with epoxy and 10 bazillion silconebronze ring nails and a
few Si srews where i saw fit as i didn't want to glass the super
structure in place (lazy). Regardless that thing is too damn, high.
Good for putzing around and camping/ castal cruising but i wouldn't
trust it in a big blow. It would be better to raise the freeboard a
bit and lower the house and therefore reduce the lexan size, maybe
even make the whole thing cheaper. It would take a horizontal
buttstrap but that would the make a LM easier to build solo (IMHO)
or you could use 5x sheets which aren't that much more, expecially
if you are comparing costs to survivability. I thing bolger designed
the house that way to be simple not because it was ideal.
Don, Bruce would you really trust your superstructure? Mine is 3/8"
Stitched and glassed inside and out at the seams with massive
longitutinal beams and a beefy buttplate/beam running horizontally
and a 3/4 "logs up at the side to top junction.
I also wonder about the whole boat being made of 1/4".....MY 3/8"
sides flex more than i'd like.
Point is i think bolger designs his boats on the light side for good
reason, but if offshore is instore i bet he lays the lumber on thick.
You can only make a shallow bellied 16' boat so tough.
Jason
> watertightness of the superstructure is vitally important.I was thinking about this as i glassed up the off-ceterboard case on
my microesque navigator. No way the house would withstand a massive
blow. Even if the windows held, not sure the house would. Mine is
held on with epoxy and 10 bazillion silconebronze ring nails and a
few Si srews where i saw fit as i didn't want to glass the super
structure in place (lazy). Regardless that thing is too damn, high.
Good for putzing around and camping/ castal cruising but i wouldn't
trust it in a big blow. It would be better to raise the freeboard a
bit and lower the house and therefore reduce the lexan size, maybe
even make the whole thing cheaper. It would take a horizontal
buttstrap but that would the make a LM easier to build solo (IMHO)
or you could use 5x sheets which aren't that much more, expecially
if you are comparing costs to survivability. I thing bolger designed
the house that way to be simple not because it was ideal.
Don, Bruce would you really trust your superstructure? Mine is 3/8"
Stitched and glassed inside and out at the seams with massive
longitutinal beams and a beefy buttplate/beam running horizontally
and a 3/4 "logs up at the side to top junction.
I also wonder about the whole boat being made of 1/4".....MY 3/8"
sides flex more than i'd like.
Point is i think bolger designs his boats on the light side for good
reason, but if offshore is instore i bet he lays the lumber on thick.
You can only make a shallow bellied 16' boat so tough.
Jason
> PeterI wonder which Bolger sailboat(s) you would point to as
'ocean crossers', Fiji would have to be one, any others?
> > Bolger designed Romp for a sailor to go across the Pacific.No. The boat was designed as a liveaboard, not an ocean voyager. I
believe it's true that the prospect of trans-oceanic travel was
voiced at the start, but that was not the object.
Alert has also crossed half the world's oceans, but that was
designed as a weekend cruiser. Loose Moose crossed the Atlantic, but
was designed as a liveaboard and European canal cruiser, with an
Atlantic crossing as a reasonable probability.
The point is that many boats CAN cross oceans but are sub-optimal
for the purpose, and there are many ocean routes where the chances
of good weather are high. For a once-in-a-lifetime crossing, a
sailor might take a boat that requires higher risk and (especially)
more work to sail because he wants to have the boat when he gets to
the other side.
Peter
It's a shallow centreboarder too.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
reportedly survived a hurricane.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> Bolger designed Romp for a sailor to go across the Pacific. Rompis more or less a cat yawl (with a very small mizzen) and has
reportedly survived a hurricane.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
reportedly survived a hurricane.
of Tasmainian Tigers?
He passed right through the eye and lost the mizzen shortly after it
passed. Wow - pretty incredible!
Perhaps this is where PCB got the idea that shallow draft and lots of
freeboard had some real potential even as an offshore design, which
sort of undermines the previous belief that you can't have both an
offshore and coastal boat in one design.
It seems that sailors in general tend to stick to the old ways longer
than most. Hence the recent resistance shown about the size of
transparent materials. Meanwhile even the Pope is pretty confident
about the strengths of these materials as well as everyone who wears
a head protective device.
Cheers, Nels
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> Bolger designed Romp for a sailor to go across the Pacific. Rompis more or less a cat yawl (with a very small mizzen) and has
reportedly survived a hurricane.
>Was that not our very own Ventursome Voyager Hugo Tyson from the land
> John T
>
of Tasmainian Tigers?
He passed right through the eye and lost the mizzen shortly after it
passed. Wow - pretty incredible!
Perhaps this is where PCB got the idea that shallow draft and lots of
freeboard had some real potential even as an offshore design, which
sort of undermines the previous belief that you can't have both an
offshore and coastal boat in one design.
It seems that sailors in general tend to stick to the old ways longer
than most. Hence the recent resistance shown about the size of
transparent materials. Meanwhile even the Pope is pretty confident
about the strengths of these materials as well as everyone who wears
a head protective device.
Cheers, Nels
Bolger designed Romp for a sailor to go across the Pacific. Romp is more or less a cat yawl (with a very small mizzen) and has reportedly survived a hurricane.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
> the cat-yawl rig is not good for heavy weather at sea.
Peter, which Bolger sailboats would you consider
to be 'blue water' boats?
Fiji, is one and it is a cat-yawl.
I will grant that the AS-29 is not Bolger
certified 'blue water'. <g>
I was just reading L.F.Herreshoff ideas
about ideal ocean crossing sailboats,
and he is big on simplicity. I think LFH
would approve of Seabird'86.
LFH argues that good open ocean boats
are bad coastal boats, and vice versa.
And, LFH points out that 99% of people
are the coastal type.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> deep fin keel, because it tends to slip sideways rather than tripI recall reading, from both Bolger and L.F.Herreshoff that in
hurricane winds in the ocean, that the surface few feet of water
gets moving sideways with the wind, where the deeper water
does not. If your fin is in the deeper water, a sheer develops,
which I guess would cause added stress and overturning force.
Going with the force seems better than resisting it,
unless you are being blown onto shore. But, presumably
if you were near shore, you would have taken your AS-29
up into some mangrove swamp hurricane hole refuge.
Can't do that with a deep draft boat.
I forget where Bolger wrote about his criticism of Badger
and her deep draft.
> From: "David Joseph" <david@c...>the Nauticat in a
>
> > [AS29 is a] Better boat all round. I don't think so. I'll take
> > real blow in the middle of the Pacific any day.There's plenty of evidence that a shallow-hulled centreboard or
leeboard boat is more seaworthy in extreme conditions than one with a
deep fin keel, because it tends to slip sideways rather than trip
over on its fin keel and capsize. The buoyancy, strength and
watertightness of the superstructure is vitally important.
Howard
> the cat-yawl rig is not good for heavy weather at sea.Peter, which Bolger sailboats would you consider
to be 'blue water' boats?
Fiji, is one and it is a cat-yawl.
I will grant that the AS-29 is not Bolger
certified 'blue water'. <g>
I was just reading L.F.Herreshoff ideas
about ideal ocean crossing sailboats,
and he is big on simplicity. I think LFH
would approve of Seabird'86.
LFH argues that good open ocean boats
are bad coastal boats, and vice versa.
And, LFH points out that 99% of people
are the coastal type.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
fully battened, self tending jib, fully reefable from inside.
Anybody have an estimate for the cost of a FIJI?
Of course, the Panama Canal was dug for a reason and that is the way
I would prefer to go.
It could be built as a co-op project and then sailed around the
American Continent like a time share - four people at a time.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>> Your faith in the Bolger philosophy is touching, but I think youare
> somewhat carried away. PCB has designed boats for the deep, blueat
> sea, and they are not very like the AS-29. Although the rig folding
> is a good feature, the cat-yawl rig is not good for heavy weather
> sea.How would FIJI measure up to your ideas about the cat-yawl rig? Being
fully battened, self tending jib, fully reefable from inside.
Anybody have an estimate for the cost of a FIJI?
Of course, the Panama Canal was dug for a reason and that is the way
I would prefer to go.
It could be built as a co-op project and then sailed around the
American Continent like a time share - four people at a time.
Cheers, Nels
> In a real blow,Your faith in the Bolger philosophy is touching, but I think you are
> I bet the Nautica people would appreciate the
> AS29 ability to lower the main mast in its tabernacle
> and hove to with a mizzen. The AS29, to my eye
> appears to have more reserve buoyancy too.
> The AS29 appears to also have twice as much
> volume, useful to store water and supplies.
> If you were blown onto a rocky lee shore in
> an AS29, you could probably walk away,
> no so for the Nauticat.
somewhat carried away. PCB has designed boats for the deep, blue
sea, and they are not very like the AS-29. Although the rig folding
is a good feature, the cat-yawl rig is not good for heavy weather at
sea. Shorter booms, and better geometry for storm canvas are in
order, IMHO. PCB is also a big proponent of shelter for the
helmsman, a feature of the Nauticat of which he would approve.
The AS-29 is 80% of the Nauticat's capability at 25% (or less) of
its price. That's a pretty good achievement, but a stormy sea is not
place to do without the last 20%.
Peter
> Better boat all round. I don't think so. I'll take the Nauticat in aI see that the Nauticat has many more parts to
> real blow in the middle of the Pacific any day.
> David Joseph
break and things to go wrong. In a real blow,
I bet the Nautica people would appreciate the
AS29 ability to lower the main mast in its tabernacle
and hove to with a mizzen. The AS29, to my eye
appears to have more reserve buoyancy too.
The AS29 appears to also have twice as much
volume, useful to store water and supplies.
If you were blown onto a rocky lee shore in
an AS29, you could probably walk away,
no so for the Nauticat.
Cape Horn in a 24,000 ton cruise ship wasn't appealing either. After six
hours of trying, with most of the passengers and half the crew sick, the
captain gave up and ran for the Straits of Magellan. Four other ships
turned back that day in January of 2000, summer time there.
Let's not go to extremes.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
hours of trying, with most of the passengers and half the crew sick, the
captain gave up and ran for the Straits of Magellan. Four other ships
turned back that day in January of 2000, summer time there.
Let's not go to extremes.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joseph" <david@...>
> Better boat all round. I don't think so. I'll take the Nauticat in a
> real blow in the middle of the Pacific any day. I read a desciption of
> the AS29 -
> Ocean capability, but all existing boats are used as coastal cruisers,
> and Cape Horn in an AS29 is simply not appealing.
Better boat all round. I don't think so. I'll take the Nauticat in a
real blow in the middle of the Pacific any day. I read a desciption of
the AS29 -
Ocean capability, but all existing boats are used as coastal cruisers,
and Cape Horn in an AS29 is simply not appealing.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
real blow in the middle of the Pacific any day. I read a desciption of
the AS29 -
Ocean capability, but all existing boats are used as coastal cruisers,
and Cape Horn in an AS29 is simply not appealing.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > I was at our local yard when one of these was delivered:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >http://tinyurl.com/6juzj
> > Peter
>
> 32' Nauticat 321
>
> Part of the 32' foot length
> is pointy bow and fancy stern,
> then an Advanced Sharpie 29
> would probably be a better boat all around,
> [except if you simply must be a conformist.]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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> Imagine sitting in your AS 29'sI don't know, but I would guess that the
> At a tenth of the cost of a nauticat.
> Bruce Hector
32' Nauticat 321 doesn't have a real
full size bed either.
The AS-29 does.
Nels, I've owned a lot of boats, but the two that got the most use were:
1. A stitch and glue, high volume slalom kayak (kit was a Kayel Ottersport, imported by the CABBS in the early 70's). The boat lived on top of a towel on the roof of my Fiat 128, with painters tied to the bumpers. The paddle, spray skirt, and PFD stayed in the car. I could put on the spray skirt and PFD, untie the boat and throw it over my shoulder, and put into any creek, river, pond, lake, or piece of ocean that was handy. And I did. A lot.
2, A Boston Whaler Squall (a 9 1/2 ft dighy with a lateen sail). I used to cartop this one too, though with a great deal of effort and an occassional drop. (I was a lot younger then). The Squall taught my to sail and row. At various times, it was a fishing boat, a duck boat, a work boat, and on one memorable occassion, a love boat. It probably wasn't ideal for any of these uses, but it was all I had, and I didn't know any better.
John T
1. A stitch and glue, high volume slalom kayak (kit was a Kayel Ottersport, imported by the CABBS in the early 70's). The boat lived on top of a towel on the roof of my Fiat 128, with painters tied to the bumpers. The paddle, spray skirt, and PFD stayed in the car. I could put on the spray skirt and PFD, untie the boat and throw it over my shoulder, and put into any creek, river, pond, lake, or piece of ocean that was handy. And I did. A lot.
2, A Boston Whaler Squall (a 9 1/2 ft dighy with a lateen sail). I used to cartop this one too, though with a great deal of effort and an occassional drop. (I was a lot younger then). The Squall taught my to sail and row. At various times, it was a fishing boat, a duck boat, a work boat, and on one memorable occassion, a love boat. It probably wasn't ideal for any of these uses, but it was all I had, and I didn't know any better.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Nels
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:47 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> The happiest man on the water is the owner of the "least" boat
which meets his needs. (Needs and wants are not necessarily the same
thing.) If you need a capability, it is worth whatever it costs in
money and aggrevation. Anything that exceeds your needs adds to
cost, time and takes away from time on the water.
>
Words of wisdom John,
I bet we could apply this to a lot of our lives and be a lot happier
as a result.
A big part of The Bolger Philosophy is about taking away what is not
needed and insuring that we have what is needed in as convenient and
ecomomical way as possible.
I think he mentions somewhere that the two types of boats one gets
the most enjoyment from are either ones you can carry yourself or
live in. How amny people actually have either one?
Cheers, Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "an
Advanced Sharpie 29 would probably be a better boat all around."
Yep, certainly with a hard dodger to make motor-sailing in cool or
wet weather more pleasant. Imagine sitting in your AS 29's
cockpit/pilot house sipping a hot cuppa' as you motor sail to
windward into a cold driving rain. Waving cheerily as you pass your
fellow "yachties" sodden and chilled to the bone in their open
cockpits, gritting their teeth into the driving rain.
At a tenth of the cost of a nauticat.
Hmmmmmm.
Bruce Hector
Advanced Sharpie 29 would probably be a better boat all around."
Yep, certainly with a hard dodger to make motor-sailing in cool or
wet weather more pleasant. Imagine sitting in your AS 29's
cockpit/pilot house sipping a hot cuppa' as you motor sail to
windward into a cold driving rain. Waving cheerily as you pass your
fellow "yachties" sodden and chilled to the bone in their open
cockpits, gritting their teeth into the driving rain.
At a tenth of the cost of a nauticat.
Hmmmmmm.
Bruce Hector
> I was at our local yard when one of these was delivered:32' Nauticat 321
>http://tinyurl.com/6juzj
> Peter
Part of the 32' foot length
is pointy bow and fancy stern,
then an Advanced Sharpie 29
would probably be a better boat all around,
[except if you simply must be a conformist.]
I was at our local yard when one of these was delivered:
http://tinyurl.com/6juzj
It's a very nice toy for someone, but one does wonder about some of
the thinking. A very heavy boat, it has twin spreaders, and two
spinnaker halyards. By the way, I thought I saw that one advertised
for about $250,000, so the price in the listing would be "base." (I
could be mistaken, though)
PEter
http://tinyurl.com/6juzj
It's a very nice toy for someone, but one does wonder about some of
the thinking. A very heavy boat, it has twin spreaders, and two
spinnaker halyards. By the way, I thought I saw that one advertised
for about $250,000, so the price in the listing would be "base." (I
could be mistaken, though)
PEter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, jhkohnen@b... wrote:
I see you noticed the irony as well. The other "review" in the mag
was a HATTERAS 80. That's right 80 feet long AND 21 feet wide. It's
the one in the top right here:
http://www.hatterasyachts.com/
4.25 mil Has almost 7000 hp of engines and electric generators from
what I gather.
Cheers, Nels
> "Ticking over" at 1,800 rpm!? Goes to show how far removed modernboat
> engines are from what they used to be. I recently got a UniversalFisherman
> that gets its peak horsepower at 1,200 rpm and ticks over at 100!Hi John,
I see you noticed the irony as well. The other "review" in the mag
was a HATTERAS 80. That's right 80 feet long AND 21 feet wide. It's
the one in the top right here:
http://www.hatterasyachts.com/
4.25 mil Has almost 7000 hp of engines and electric generators from
what I gather.
Cheers, Nels
"Ticking over" at 1,800 rpm!? Goes to show how far removed modern boat
engines are from what they used to be. I recently got a Universal Fisherman
that gets its peak horsepower at 1,200 rpm and ticks over at 100! Who wants
a screamer of a high-speed engine in a sailboat? <harumph>
engines are from what they used to be. I recently got a Universal Fisherman
that gets its peak horsepower at 1,200 rpm and ticks over at 100! Who wants
a screamer of a high-speed engine in a sailboat? <harumph>
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:53:37 -0000, Nels wrote:
> ...
> I read a review of a German made plastic "performance cruiser" called
> the Bavarian Match 38. Here is an excerpt that I believe illustrates
> how far removed we Bolgeristas are from the "real sailors".
>
> "Heading back into Vancouver's False Creek with just 3 to 4 knots of
> wind on the quarter, another advantage of choosing a slippery, high
> powered sailboat was revealed. With the engine ticking over at 1800
> rpm,...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
That really hits home for me.
The first thing I did when I moved to Texas from Michigan was buy a
canoe. $600.00 and money well spent. I have gotten priceless
memories from that thing. There's nothing quite like canoeing the San
Marcos river as it is Spring Fed, which forms a lake right in the
middle of town. From here it meets up with other major texas rivers
as it heads to the gulf.
They shoot the whole river once a year. Three days of straight
paddling. I'll take the fishing and camping thanks....
http://www.texaswatersafari.org/
A2
The first thing I did when I moved to Texas from Michigan was buy a
canoe. $600.00 and money well spent. I have gotten priceless
memories from that thing. There's nothing quite like canoeing the San
Marcos river as it is Spring Fed, which forms a lake right in the
middle of town. From here it meets up with other major texas rivers
as it heads to the gulf.
They shoot the whole river once a year. Three days of straight
paddling. I'll take the fishing and camping thanks....
http://www.texaswatersafari.org/
A2
>*****the two types of boats one gets
> I think he mentions somewhere that
> the most enjoyment from are either ones you can carry yourself orHow amny people actually have either one?
> live in.*******
>
> Cheers, Nels
> Bavarias's Match 38 will appeal to more dedicated sailing enthusiastsThat's a lot of dough to spend for a place to hang your slicker.
> than casual cruisers - a higher proportion of the cost goes into high-
> end sailing equipment, leaving a smaller share for everything else...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
thing.) If you need a capability, it is worth whatever it costs in
money and aggrevation. Anything that exceeds your needs adds to
cost, time and takes away from time on the water.
I bet we could apply this to a lot of our lives and be a lot happier
as a result.
A big part of The Bolger Philosophy is about taking away what is not
needed and insuring that we have what is needed in as convenient and
ecomomical way as possible.
I think he mentions somewhere that the two types of boats one gets
the most enjoyment from are either ones you can carry yourself or
live in. How amny people actually have either one?
Cheers, Nels
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> The happiest man on the water is the owner of the "least" boatwhich meets his needs. (Needs and wants are not necessarily the same
thing.) If you need a capability, it is worth whatever it costs in
money and aggrevation. Anything that exceeds your needs adds to
cost, time and takes away from time on the water.
>Words of wisdom John,
I bet we could apply this to a lot of our lives and be a lot happier
as a result.
A big part of The Bolger Philosophy is about taking away what is not
needed and insuring that we have what is needed in as convenient and
ecomomical way as possible.
I think he mentions somewhere that the two types of boats one gets
the most enjoyment from are either ones you can carry yourself or
live in. How amny people actually have either one?
Cheers, Nels
The happiest man on the water is the owner of the "least" boat which meets his needs. (Needs and wants are not necessarily the same thing.) If you need a capability, it is worth whatever it costs in money and aggrevation. Anything that exceeds your needs adds to cost, time and takes away from time on the water.
While only the filthy rich blow money on quarter million dollar yachts, there are traps out there for the rest of us. I'm starting to build a very carefully thought out, single handed shallow water cruiser. By the time I'm done, I will be lucky to have no more than three grand and a huge amount of time, blood, sweat, and tears invested. I know where there is a pristine Chrysler 22 with a trailer which is advertised for $2900 and can probably be had for $2500. It's tempting, but I would need a bigger tow vehicle, raising and dropping the mast would be time consuming and strenuous, there is all that rigging, and electrical system to go bad, etc, etc. In short, the boat exceeds my needs, so I won't buy it. But it is tempting...
John T
While only the filthy rich blow money on quarter million dollar yachts, there are traps out there for the rest of us. I'm starting to build a very carefully thought out, single handed shallow water cruiser. By the time I'm done, I will be lucky to have no more than three grand and a huge amount of time, blood, sweat, and tears invested. I know where there is a pristine Chrysler 22 with a trailer which is advertised for $2900 and can probably be had for $2500. It's tempting, but I would need a bigger tow vehicle, raising and dropping the mast would be time consuming and strenuous, there is all that rigging, and electrical system to go bad, etc, etc. In short, the boat exceeds my needs, so I won't buy it. But it is tempting...
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Stancil
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Performance Motorsailing
> At the time of writing, the test boat was available for
$249.900.00
Jeez, sign me up. Blows me away that some folks have that kind of
disposable income. Never have figured why anyone wants a boat over
30 foot......obviously they are paying someone else to do the
maintenance :)
My 2 dream boats are the flicka and the westsail 28 both
recockulously expensive minimal cruisers. Even the 20 foot flicka
can go for 60 grand with a monitor and all the goodies. Battered
ones 15k with blisters, ragged rigging/canvas and no goodies.
So instead i built a crooked box that maybe can make to nassau if
i'm lucky. Oh, wait, i have to finish it first.
Jason
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> At the time of writing, the test boat was available for$249.900.00
Jeez, sign me up. Blows me away that some folks have that kind of
disposable income.
If I had that kind of disposable income I would build me a good number
of different boats. Sinking all that money into a single type of
experience? Seems kind of shallow minded to me.
Juan.
> At the time of writing, the test boat was available for$249.900.00
Jeez, sign me up. Blows me away that some folks have that kind of
disposable income. Never have figured why anyone wants a boat over
30 foot......obviously they are paying someone else to do the
maintenance :)
My 2 dream boats are the flicka and the westsail 28 both
recockulously expensive minimal cruisers. Even the 20 foot flicka
can go for 60 grand with a monitor and all the goodies. Battered
ones 15k with blisters, ragged rigging/canvas and no goodies.
So instead i built a crooked box that maybe can make to nassau if
i'm lucky. Oh, wait, i have to finish it first.
Jason
I don't often read the Sailing Rags but recently picked up
the "Wooden Boat" issue of Pacific Sailing that had a nice photo of a
Beetle Cat on the cover.
I read a review of a German made plastic "performance cruiser" called
the Bavarian Match 38. Here is an excerpt that I believe illustrates
how far removed we Bolgeristas are from the "real sailors".
"Heading back into Vancouver's False Creek with just 3 to 4 knots of
wind on the quarter, another advantage of choosing a slippery, high
powered sailboat was revealed. With the engine ticking over at 1800
rpm, the apparent wind shifted enough to trim the sails for a close
reach and the boat levelled off at an effortless six knots.
Motorsailing like this is ideal for summertime conditions in the Gulf
Islands because it not only keeps up the speed with minimal engine
noise, but also dramatically steadies the ride through the powerboat
wakes. (Okay so far so good - but read on:-)
Bavarias's Match 38 will appeal to more dedicated sailing enthusiasts
than casual cruisers - a higher proportion of the cost goes into high-
end sailing equipment, leaving a smaller share for everything else...
At the time of writing, the test boat was available for $249.900.00
complete with Espar forced air heating, carbon fiber spinnaker pole
and four state-of-the-art racing sails - a price that other players
in the performance sailing sector will likely find tough to match."
I am having trouble restraining myself from running right out and
getting it:-)
Cheers, Nels
the "Wooden Boat" issue of Pacific Sailing that had a nice photo of a
Beetle Cat on the cover.
I read a review of a German made plastic "performance cruiser" called
the Bavarian Match 38. Here is an excerpt that I believe illustrates
how far removed we Bolgeristas are from the "real sailors".
"Heading back into Vancouver's False Creek with just 3 to 4 knots of
wind on the quarter, another advantage of choosing a slippery, high
powered sailboat was revealed. With the engine ticking over at 1800
rpm, the apparent wind shifted enough to trim the sails for a close
reach and the boat levelled off at an effortless six knots.
Motorsailing like this is ideal for summertime conditions in the Gulf
Islands because it not only keeps up the speed with minimal engine
noise, but also dramatically steadies the ride through the powerboat
wakes. (Okay so far so good - but read on:-)
Bavarias's Match 38 will appeal to more dedicated sailing enthusiasts
than casual cruisers - a higher proportion of the cost goes into high-
end sailing equipment, leaving a smaller share for everything else...
At the time of writing, the test boat was available for $249.900.00
complete with Espar forced air heating, carbon fiber spinnaker pole
and four state-of-the-art racing sails - a price that other players
in the performance sailing sector will likely find tough to match."
I am having trouble restraining myself from running right out and
getting it:-)
Cheers, Nels