Re: More sail power for a cat yawl? -- vangs?
Not to mention denting!
Jamie
Jamie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "paulthober" <paulthober@y...> wrote:
>
> I tried a gaff vang on my Chebacco, Samantha, without much effect
as
> far as I could tell. I rigged it from the upper end of the gaff to
a
> block at the top of the mizzen and then led the end to a cleat on
the
> mizzen mast. If I put enough tension to reduce the amount the gaff
> fell off then the peak of the gaff would be pulled down distorting
the
> shape of the sail.
>
> The idea of a bucket of water at the end of the boom to keep the
boom
> dowm when running before the wind is somewhat interesting, but the
> thought of a gibe with a wrecking ball attached to the boom is
> somewhat daunting.
>
> Paul
>I tried a gaff vang on my Chebacco, Samantha, without much effect asThis sounds a heck of a lot like the top sheetlet on a Chinese Gaff!
>far as I could tell. I rigged it from the upper end of the gaff to a
>block at the top of the mizzen
> The idea of a bucket of water at the end of the boomThe boom on the Micro Navigator Chinese Gaff has a vang
> Paul
and in a letter to me, Bolger explained that it should be
attached, standing end at about the middle of the boom
[as far towards there as you could reach without
fouling on the cabin], and then running through a sheave
at the foot of the mast. [I write from memory, and am
paraphrasing what he wrote.]
I guess this provides a similar downward pull, like
a bucket of water.
Assuming that you're paying attention, unintentional gibes shouldn't happen.
Just meet the boom with the tiller when it lifts.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Just meet the boom with the tiller when it lifts.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "paulthober" <paulthober@...>
> The idea of a bucket of water at the end of the boom to keep the boom
> dowm when running before the wind is somewhat interesting, but the
> thought of a gibe with a wrecking ball attached to the boom is
> somewhat daunting.
I tried a gaff vang on my Chebacco, Samantha, without much effect as
far as I could tell. I rigged it from the upper end of the gaff to a
block at the top of the mizzen and then led the end to a cleat on the
mizzen mast. If I put enough tension to reduce the amount the gaff
fell off then the peak of the gaff would be pulled down distorting the
shape of the sail.
The idea of a bucket of water at the end of the boom to keep the boom
dowm when running before the wind is somewhat interesting, but the
thought of a gibe with a wrecking ball attached to the boom is
somewhat daunting.
Paul
far as I could tell. I rigged it from the upper end of the gaff to a
block at the top of the mizzen and then led the end to a cleat on the
mizzen mast. If I put enough tension to reduce the amount the gaff
fell off then the peak of the gaff would be pulled down distorting the
shape of the sail.
The idea of a bucket of water at the end of the boom to keep the boom
dowm when running before the wind is somewhat interesting, but the
thought of a gibe with a wrecking ball attached to the boom is
somewhat daunting.
Paul
I was thinking of gaff vangs.
The article I mentioned involved testing various rigs on two identical
catamarans, so they had a fine broad base for securing it when close hauled.
When reaching or running, one doesn't need the broad beam. Perhaps it could
be cleated to the mizzen or to the cabin roof (cruising conversion) to avoid
losing one's head.
The article found the lug and gaff rigs to be much better than the "normal"
jib headed main for identical total sail areas, but commented on the need
for a gaff vang.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
The article I mentioned involved testing various rigs on two identical
catamarans, so they had a fine broad base for securing it when close hauled.
When reaching or running, one doesn't need the broad beam. Perhaps it could
be cleated to the mizzen or to the cabin roof (cruising conversion) to avoid
losing one's head.
The article found the lug and gaff rigs to be much better than the "normal"
jib headed main for identical total sail areas, but commented on the need
for a gaff vang.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Samson" <willsamson@...>
> > A little off topic, but the Bolger gaff rigs do need vangs for the gaff
> > according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone
> > sent me
> > (I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How
> > many
> > are using such lines?
> Not many I think. Does this mean a vang to the boom, or a vang to the
> end of the gaff itself?
>
> If it's a boom vang, many of Bolger's designs don't leave enough room
> between the deck and boom to allow an effective vang to be fitted (-
> Chebacco for example). A vang to the gaff end sounds like it'd be a quick
> way to strangle or decapitate yourself in a gybe!
>
> The Chebacco's boom is so heavy as to pretty much obviate the need for a
> boom vang. It'd be hard to find a convenient place on a boat this size to
> tie off a gaff vang; though these things used to be fairly common on large
> gaffers and spritsail boats, I believe.
Just looked at the plans for Chebacco and obviously a top sail will not work with Chebacco's high peaked gaff.
If anyone wants to explore topsails further, in addition to John Leather's Gaff Rig, there are some helpful illustrations in The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emilliano Marino.
The other sail that could be added to the Light Schooner/Scooner (not that she needs anymore) is the fisherman's stay sail, aka a "gollywhomper". By all accounts, it's not very effective, but wouldn't it be great to command, "Hoist the gollywhomper!"
My experience with gaff sails is that off the wind, the boom rises, allowing the top of the sail (gaff) to fall off, producing twist in the sail, and with the potential for some pretty exciting jibes. A high peaked gaff reduces this tendancy, as the peak halyard limits the swing of the gaff. A boom vang wuold prevent this, but a) there is not usually room for one and b) long booms are seldom designed for the stresses a boom vang imposes. I've read that in yhr old days, it was common to hang a bucket of water on the end of the boom to hold it down off the wind. In the absence of a vang, mid boom sheeting helps a little.
John T
If anyone wants to explore topsails further, in addition to John Leather's Gaff Rig, there are some helpful illustrations in The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emilliano Marino.
The other sail that could be added to the Light Schooner/Scooner (not that she needs anymore) is the fisherman's stay sail, aka a "gollywhomper". By all accounts, it's not very effective, but wouldn't it be great to command, "Hoist the gollywhomper!"
My experience with gaff sails is that off the wind, the boom rises, allowing the top of the sail (gaff) to fall off, producing twist in the sail, and with the potential for some pretty exciting jibes. A high peaked gaff reduces this tendancy, as the peak halyard limits the swing of the gaff. A boom vang wuold prevent this, but a) there is not usually room for one and b) long booms are seldom designed for the stresses a boom vang imposes. I've read that in yhr old days, it was common to hang a bucket of water on the end of the boom to hold it down off the wind. In the absence of a vang, mid boom sheeting helps a little.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Samson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] More sail power for a cat yawl? -- vangs?
A little off topic, but the Bolger gaff rigs do need vangs for the gaff
according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone sent me
(I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How many
are using such lines?
Not many I think. Does this mean a vang to the boom, or a vang to the end of the gaff itself?
If it's a boom vang, many of Bolger's designs don't leave enough room between the deck and boom to allow an effective vang to be fitted (- Chebacco for example). A vang to the gaff end sounds like it'd be a quick way to strangle or decapitate yourself in a gybe!
The Chebacco's boom is so heavy as to pretty much obviate the need for a boom vang. It'd be hard to find a convenient place on a boat this size to tie off a gaff vang; though these things used to be fairly common on large gaffers and spritsail boats, I believe.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The Chebacco's boom is so heavy as to pretty much obviate the need for aSee Conor O'Brien's essay on vangs on the Cheap Pages.
>boom vang. It'd be hard to find a convenient place on a boat this size to
>tie off a gaff vang; though these things used to be fairly common on large
>gaffers and spritsail boats, I believe.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
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Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
A little off topic, but the Bolger gaff rigs do need vangs for the gaff
according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone sent me
(I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How many
are using such lines?
Not many I think. Does this mean a vang to the boom, or a vang to the end of the gaff itself?
If it's a boom vang, many of Bolger's designs don't leave enough room between the deck and boom to allow an effective vang to be fitted (- Chebacco for example). A vang to the gaff end sounds like it'd be a quick way to strangle or decapitate yourself in a gybe!
The Chebacco's boom is so heavy as to pretty much obviate the need for a boom vang. It'd be hard to find a convenient place on a boat this size to tie off a gaff vang; though these things used to be fairly common on large gaffers and spritsail boats, I believe.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone sent me
(I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How many
are using such lines?
Not many I think. Does this mean a vang to the boom, or a vang to the end of the gaff itself?
If it's a boom vang, many of Bolger's designs don't leave enough room between the deck and boom to allow an effective vang to be fitted (- Chebacco for example). A vang to the gaff end sounds like it'd be a quick way to strangle or decapitate yourself in a gybe!
The Chebacco's boom is so heavy as to pretty much obviate the need for a boom vang. It'd be hard to find a convenient place on a boat this size to tie off a gaff vang; though these things used to be fairly common on large gaffers and spritsail boats, I believe.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A little off topic, but the Bolger gaff rigs do need vangs for the gaff
according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone sent me
(I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How many
are using such lines?
Light air sailing is where one really learns how to sail the boat. The
slightest goof will kill your way and after a while you figure out such
things as "Oh, that wasn't a wind shift/header, that was a lull and I
shouldn't have tacked."
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
according to the July 1984 article in Yachting Monthly that someone sent me
(I can't find the reference/URL, but it was a fascinating piece.) How many
are using such lines?
Light air sailing is where one really learns how to sail the boat. The
slightest goof will kill your way and after a while you figure out such
things as "Oh, that wasn't a wind shift/header, that was a lull and I
shouldn't have tacked."
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "jas_orr" <jas_orr@...>
> I sail a Chebacco, and I'm looking for more oomph in light winds,
> downwind or on a reach. I have the "optional" jib, it's pretty
> useless as drawn -- but I don't want a permanent bowsprit.