Re: Stitch and Glue OldShoe?
I'd say go for it -- wanting to try it is sufficient reason. There
are some who say s&g is actually more work than ply on stringers
(pos). Somewhere on the web there is an article by Thomas Firth Jones
that makes this case. In this small size, there really isn't much
difference. If you do not intend sheathing the ply, finishing the
exterior would be easier with pos. If you are going to sheathe it,
the time involved would be about the same.
S&g boats are usually stitched together right side up. For this boat,
it will be easy to lean over the sides while applying the tape and
resin along the seams. I like to use heavy monofilament nylon fishing
line in a long continuous blanket stitch along each side, working so
that most of the stitch is on the outside. (You will understand this
once you start stitching). This makes it easy to get uniform tension
in pulling the pieces together. Epoxy doesn't stick to nylon, so it's
very easy to cut the stitches on the outside and remove them before
taping the outside seams.
Before assembly, I planed off about 1/16" of ply in a strip, just
over half the width of the fibreglass tape, along the edge of each
panel -- just the outside. This meant that the tape and epoxy seam
ended up about flush with the ply surface on the outside. Probably a
router would do a better job.
You will have to devise a way of supporting the hull while it's being
assembled. On a boat very similar in size I found a couple of
sawhorses were sufficient. I loaded the bottom with bricks to get the
right rocker. Once everything is stitched together, check and adjust
the shape before applying tape and resin.
As Old Shoe is really just a scaled-down Micro, you could get
construction ideas from some of the Micro building logs to be found
on the web.
You'll still need to retain at least some of the internal bulkheads
etc., but they won't need their timber framing.
Samual Devlin's book on s&g boatbuilding is a very useful reference.
Howard
are some who say s&g is actually more work than ply on stringers
(pos). Somewhere on the web there is an article by Thomas Firth Jones
that makes this case. In this small size, there really isn't much
difference. If you do not intend sheathing the ply, finishing the
exterior would be easier with pos. If you are going to sheathe it,
the time involved would be about the same.
S&g boats are usually stitched together right side up. For this boat,
it will be easy to lean over the sides while applying the tape and
resin along the seams. I like to use heavy monofilament nylon fishing
line in a long continuous blanket stitch along each side, working so
that most of the stitch is on the outside. (You will understand this
once you start stitching). This makes it easy to get uniform tension
in pulling the pieces together. Epoxy doesn't stick to nylon, so it's
very easy to cut the stitches on the outside and remove them before
taping the outside seams.
Before assembly, I planed off about 1/16" of ply in a strip, just
over half the width of the fibreglass tape, along the edge of each
panel -- just the outside. This meant that the tape and epoxy seam
ended up about flush with the ply surface on the outside. Probably a
router would do a better job.
You will have to devise a way of supporting the hull while it's being
assembled. On a boat very similar in size I found a couple of
sawhorses were sufficient. I loaded the bottom with bricks to get the
right rocker. Once everything is stitched together, check and adjust
the shape before applying tape and resin.
As Old Shoe is really just a scaled-down Micro, you could get
construction ideas from some of the Micro building logs to be found
on the web.
You'll still need to retain at least some of the internal bulkheads
etc., but they won't need their timber framing.
Samual Devlin's book on s&g boatbuilding is a very useful reference.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woofers94401" <gregoryu@p...> wrote:
>
> I've built the mizzen boom, have a bunch of CVG fir in the garage
to
> glue up the mizzen mast and plan to slap a hull together in the
> spring. Even have the wife's permission (a much more daunting task
> than pouring the lead keel, in my case)
>
> In considering the construction I've been toying with the idea of
> developing a pattern for the bottom and stitching the hull together
> instead of using the "instant boat" construction method. The whole
> idea being 1) I want to learn to do stitch and glue anyway and 2)
it
> might help the boat last a little longer - no chine log rot.
>
> Id keep the framing for the transoms, but probably do away with it
on
> the bulkheads.
>
> Any thoughts on this idea?
As an alternative, why not consider building one of Gav Athin's
Mouses. The plans are free. It's small, cheap, has enough tricky bits
of S&G to give you some good practice and you end up with a darned
nice little cartoppable paddling boat.
Bryant - who admits to a bias
Mouses. The plans are free. It's small, cheap, has enough tricky bits
of S&G to give you some good practice and you end up with a darned
nice little cartoppable paddling boat.
Bryant - who admits to a bias
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woofers94401" <gregoryu@p...> wrote:
> >> Any thoughts on this idea?
>
> One thing that comes to mind is the laying of glass tapes into
> confined quarters may present a problem. The building sequences are
> different in the two methods.
>
> By far the best way to practice S&G is to get some plans that are
> desgned for S&G. (Or T&T as Dynamite calls it.)
>
>http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
<snip>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woofers94401" <gregoryu@p...> wrote:
confined quarters may present a problem. The building sequences are
different in the two methods.
By far the best way to practice S&G is to get some plans that are
desgned for S&G. (Or T&T as Dynamite calls it.)
http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
Elegant Punt and/or the S&G canoe are two that come to mind. Minumum
investment - maximum satisfaction!
Buying plans and books from Dynamite is a lot cheaper learning
experience than investing time and effort into modifying existing
plans and risking the high investment put into plywood and epoxy.
I am not sure where the chine logs would be exposed to rot in an OS?
Perhaps only at the very ends. Might be an idea to cut triangular-
cross-section filler splines or use an epoxy mix to fill the edges of
the chines so you can tape over them. Some builders do this as it
also adds some additional strength to the logs.
There are a couple of interesting articles in the last two issues of
WB mag regarding building with S&G. Actually it employes tie-wraps to
do the stitching and leaves them in the joint as they are made from
nylon.
It was really interesting that the parts where cut using a CNC
machine which is so accurate that there is not enough space in the
joints to glue them. Therefor the edges have to be beveled. This is
probably a useful idea with thicker ply anyway.
I love the Olshoe design:-)
Cheers, Nels
>> Any thoughts on this idea?One thing that comes to mind is the laying of glass tapes into
confined quarters may present a problem. The building sequences are
different in the two methods.
By far the best way to practice S&G is to get some plans that are
desgned for S&G. (Or T&T as Dynamite calls it.)
http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
Elegant Punt and/or the S&G canoe are two that come to mind. Minumum
investment - maximum satisfaction!
Buying plans and books from Dynamite is a lot cheaper learning
experience than investing time and effort into modifying existing
plans and risking the high investment put into plywood and epoxy.
I am not sure where the chine logs would be exposed to rot in an OS?
Perhaps only at the very ends. Might be an idea to cut triangular-
cross-section filler splines or use an epoxy mix to fill the edges of
the chines so you can tape over them. Some builders do this as it
also adds some additional strength to the logs.
There are a couple of interesting articles in the last two issues of
WB mag regarding building with S&G. Actually it employes tie-wraps to
do the stitching and leaves them in the joint as they are made from
nylon.
It was really interesting that the parts where cut using a CNC
machine which is so accurate that there is not enough space in the
joints to glue them. Therefor the edges have to be beveled. This is
probably a useful idea with thicker ply anyway.
I love the Olshoe design:-)
Cheers, Nels
> woofers94401There is a long history of Bolger boat builders 'toying with the [design]'.
> In considering the construction I've been toying with the idea of
> developing a pattern for the bottom and stitching the hull together
> instead of using the "instant boat" construction method.
>
> Any thoughts on this idea?
Most every time I have done it, I have come to realize that Bolger
had a good reason for designing it his way, and my changes have not
always been improvements! Of course, Jason has had much
better luck than I. <sly grin>
In the case of Bolgers boat Col. H.G. Hassler, the beginning of
the builders key includes a full page of stern warnings about the
unintended consequences of toying with the design!
I've built the mizzen boom, have a bunch of CVG fir in the garage to
glue up the mizzen mast and plan to slap a hull together in the
spring. Even have the wife's permission (a much more daunting task
than pouring the lead keel, in my case)
In considering the construction I've been toying with the idea of
developing a pattern for the bottom and stitching the hull together
instead of using the "instant boat" construction method. The whole
idea being 1) I want to learn to do stitch and glue anyway and 2) it
might help the boat last a little longer - no chine log rot.
Id keep the framing for the transoms, but probably do away with it on
the bulkheads.
Any thoughts on this idea?
glue up the mizzen mast and plan to slap a hull together in the
spring. Even have the wife's permission (a much more daunting task
than pouring the lead keel, in my case)
In considering the construction I've been toying with the idea of
developing a pattern for the bottom and stitching the hull together
instead of using the "instant boat" construction method. The whole
idea being 1) I want to learn to do stitch and glue anyway and 2) it
might help the boat last a little longer - no chine log rot.
Id keep the framing for the transoms, but probably do away with it on
the bulkheads.
Any thoughts on this idea?