Re: [bolger] Re: Delaware concept--trawler yacht
Nels, thanks for posting this Small Simple Motorsailer. The more I look
at it the more I like it. Clyde
Nels wrote:
at it the more I like it. Clyde
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> wrote:
> > My complaint has nothing to do with claustrophobia, it's just that
> I like
> > being outside.
> >
> > There aren't many home-built boats that I'd classify as being good
> swim
> > platforms. For lounging around at anchor it's tough to beat a
> pontoon boat.
> >
> > One Bolger boat that intrigues me because is the Bolger's 30'
> Alaskan motor
> > sailing cargo boat. It's not the cargo hold that makes the boat so
> > desirable, it's the big open deck in the middle of the boat.
> >
>
> John,
>
> Just imagine the size of your beer cooler! I love that design and
> also the SMALL MOTORSAILER which has basically the same hull in a
> trailerable configuration.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
>
> Why not just use the dingy or and inflatable for a swim platform? Or
> better yet park at the beach:-)
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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I had a chance to look hard a t the Delaware cartoon in MAIB today.
Delaware has a cockpit with 6 ft long seats opening into a well for the
outboard. It looks roomy enought o accomodate 4 with some modest crowding
or 2 or 3 in great comfort. Given the limitations of the size of the boat
(a 25 by 8 ft boat can't have more than 200 sq ft of floor space), Dakota
looks like a pretty good compromise.
John T
Delaware has a cockpit with 6 ft long seats opening into a well for the
outboard. It looks roomy enought o accomodate 4 with some modest crowding
or 2 or 3 in great comfort. Given the limitations of the size of the boat
(a 25 by 8 ft boat can't have more than 200 sq ft of floor space), Dakota
looks like a pretty good compromise.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 1:30 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Delaware concept--trawler yacht
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
> wrote:
> . Even the
> > elegant Topaz, Champlain, and Windermere are too much 'inside' boats
> for me.
> > How about a boat with intelligently designed accomondations that has
> some
> > outside living space?
> >
> > For instance, what would it cost to stretch Windermere out by 8-12'
> to
> > create a front or back "porch" on which to enjoy a crisp fume blanc
> on a
> > sultry summer evening? I'll wager it would not add much more 10% to
> the cost
> > of the boat and it would make it more of a pleasure to own as well as
> > greatly increase the it's resale value. Ditto for Champlain.
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> I've yet to launch Windermere but can state,with unreserved
> enthusiasim and ruined knees,that she has oodles of lounging space up
> on the flight deck...OOOPS....I mean roof.Perhaps it is not readily
> apparent either on the tiny study plans posted in one of the
> Windermere files but Bolger does offer a draw bridge type folding
> extension to the aft deck thereby providing a wonderful patio(or is it
> porch?) for various culinary treats,wine sampling and general mindless
> gazing at the water from comfy lounge chairs.As for those sultry
> summer evenings, it has been my experience up here that this is also
> the best time for those sluty and thirsty mesquitos to come-a-
> feasting on my considerable girth.Thankfully,Windermeres ample salon
> and large dinette will provide the equivalent to fine dining on the
> water front with the best view in the house.For those who like to boat
> with the younger animals of our species,Windermere does carry 2
> dinghys on the roof for endless hours of on-the-water fun and that
> roof also can serve as a grand diving platform for those so inclined.
> However,when used as designed(a two person live-a-board) she offers
> serious full time,fully insulated live-a-board comforts,not the least
> of which are an infinite number of options in climate control.That
> is,you can control just how much exposure you desire from UV
> rays,wind,insects,rain,sleet and snow.With space for an onboard
> portable genset and her impressive 2 bank 12 battery electric storage
> capacity,running one of the small RV air-conditioners is a reality
> which can forever ban those hot and muggy nights tossing about in ones
> own sweat.Needless to say,this last option does open up new horizons
> for some darned wholesome chamber antics unfettered by thoughts of
> dying from heat stroke just at that most blessed of heavenly
> moments...nudge,nudge,wink,wink :-)
> Furthermore,thanks to her vast expanse of clear windows, the vistas
> available are on par with whatever you would get sitting out on an
> exposed porch. Claustrophobia was not one of your complaints,but alot
> or most boats with large deck spaces(porches) do tend to have darkish
> little caves passing for living accomadations.
>
> Your self assessment concluding with the need for more boats is
> perhaps the only honest answer or solution to your needs.Otherwise,it
> requires very deep pockets to get everything we could ever want for
> all in one boat and this may come with sevre constraints,ie;goodbye to
> shoal draft,goodbye to trailerablity and goodbye to ever being able to
> claim you built her yourself. But of course all of this would be
> rather quaint and meaningless since you would be rich,rich,rich and
> not have time to bother as you hobnobbed with other rich,rich
> creatures :-D
>
> Say hello to the simple life,embrace poverty and wait with growing
> excitement for the final days of liberation when the youngest will be
> clamoring at the door to leave home and make it on their own:-)
>
> In the meantime, scrounge yourself up four 45 gallon drums and build
> yourself a raft or swim platform and install a parasol with table and
> chairs beneath it..........;-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,hoping to not sound too much like a cheap used-car
> salesman...............
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
I think 5200 has a really good track record and in a boat as small
as EP it may not take that much. maybe 3 tubes at most? Ideally just
enough so that it squeezes out of the joint just a tiny bit.
I have never used 5200 but have used aerolite or Titebond II or
Lepage's outdoor glues, some of which are only "water resistant" but
only for outdoor furniture and not boats. It is probably adequate
for dry sailed dinks though. I have mixed wood dust in too in order
to fill gaps.
Hell, clear duct tape and spray painted cardboard might do the
trick! Connect two with wingnuts and you have a disposable schooner.
You could use them to store your tax returns if nothing else.
Cheers, Nels
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> The original strip-planked Bolger Shivaree was built with caulkingprove
> compound between the strips rather than glue mainly, it seems, to
> that it could be done. But it was supposed to have been a lot moreOh for sure. Then there is Gorilla glue and it's spin-offs.
> expensive than glue.
>
> Howard
>
I think 5200 has a really good track record and in a boat as small
as EP it may not take that much. maybe 3 tubes at most? Ideally just
enough so that it squeezes out of the joint just a tiny bit.
I have never used 5200 but have used aerolite or Titebond II or
Lepage's outdoor glues, some of which are only "water resistant" but
only for outdoor furniture and not boats. It is probably adequate
for dry sailed dinks though. I have mixed wood dust in too in order
to fill gaps.
Hell, clear duct tape and spray painted cardboard might do the
trick! Connect two with wingnuts and you have a disposable schooner.
You could use them to store your tax returns if nothing else.
Cheers, Nels
The original strip-planked Bolger Shivaree was built with caulking
compound between the strips rather than glue mainly, it seems, to prove
that it could be done. But it was supposed to have been a lot more
expensive than glue.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:> I can't
think of any paint that might be flexible enough to protect a
compound between the strips rather than glue mainly, it seems, to prove
that it could be done. But it was supposed to have been a lot more
expensive than glue.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:> I can't
think of any paint that might be flexible enough to protect a
> wooden chine joint alternately in and out of water. What about this
> stuff in the joints? Then, paint?
>
>http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ak/Caulking/3M/3M_5200_fam/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Turnbull <BillTurnbull@g...> wrote:
wooden chine joint alternately in and out of water. What about this
stuff in the joints? Then, paint?
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ak/Caulking/3M/3M_5200_fam/
Nels
> On 6/29/05, Máximo <grupos@p...> wrote:could be
> > Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that
> > constructed on plywood and paint only,I can't think of any paint that might be flexible enough to protect a
>
> I would imagine that you could build elegant punt and brick without
> glass. However, I would think you would need some time of glue or a
> sealer for the chine log attachment to the sides and bottom. Maybe
> paint would seal the joint enough to keep out most of the water.
>
> Bill
wooden chine joint alternately in and out of water. What about this
stuff in the joints? Then, paint?
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ak/Caulking/3M/3M_5200_fam/
Nels
On 6/29/05, Máximo <grupos@...> wrote:
glass. However, I would think you would need some time of glue or a
sealer for the chine log attachment to the sides and bottom. Maybe
paint would seal the joint enough to keep out most of the water.
Bill
--
Please support my wife in raising money for breast cancer research
during the "3-day", a 60 mile walk over 3 days.
http://tinyurl.com/cn3th
> Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that could beI would imagine that you could build elegant punt and brick without
> constructed on plywood and paint only,
glass. However, I would think you would need some time of glue or a
sealer for the chine log attachment to the sides and bottom. Maybe
paint would seal the joint enough to keep out most of the water.
Bill
--
Please support my wife in raising money for breast cancer research
during the "3-day", a 60 mile walk over 3 days.
http://tinyurl.com/cn3th
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
Did you ever get a copy of the video from Bjorn Harbo about his WDJ?
I FINALLY got the opportunity to view my copy as my old computer would
not play it. It was a very heart-warming experience for me as one of
the clips was videoed on the same day my friends from Norway where
down to see Esmeralda. (Susan is I bet the only person to have been
aboard both a WDJ and a Micro except for PCB&F themselves.)
The most fascinating thing was to see the small children on board. WDJ
is like one big play pen! Everyone in perfect comfort and security and
yet the whole hull is filled with fresh air and sunlight. I believe
Bjorn regrets building in the water ballest tanks though as he does
not trailer the boat. But it is wonderfully versatile design.
Also I had just visited Oslo myself last year, and saw a lot of the
same areas as shown in the video. Viewing the GJOA in the "flesh" when
I was there brought tears to my eyes as I have visited several times
the community in the High Arctic (Gjoa Haven) where the GJOA
overwintered in the ice. I had no idea the ship was was still with
us. And kept outside all year long!
Those Norwegians are one tough bunch of seafarers and skilled boat
builders I have to tell you. They actually where the first to explore
and claim the Canadian Arctic. I expect they felt they already had
enough rock and ice already so gave it back:-) The Canadian Arctic is
filled with Norwegian names. Most amazing when you realize that Norway
to this day has only 4 million people or so.
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/arctic/inuit/communit.htm
If Bjorn approves I could burn a copy of his video Sam.
Cheers, Nels (A simple swede - said to be a norwegian with his brains
knocked out:-)
wrote:
> Thanks, John. Is that information posted on the webSam,
> somewhere?
>
> --- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@m...>
Did you ever get a copy of the video from Bjorn Harbo about his WDJ?
I FINALLY got the opportunity to view my copy as my old computer would
not play it. It was a very heart-warming experience for me as one of
the clips was videoed on the same day my friends from Norway where
down to see Esmeralda. (Susan is I bet the only person to have been
aboard both a WDJ and a Micro except for PCB&F themselves.)
The most fascinating thing was to see the small children on board. WDJ
is like one big play pen! Everyone in perfect comfort and security and
yet the whole hull is filled with fresh air and sunlight. I believe
Bjorn regrets building in the water ballest tanks though as he does
not trailer the boat. But it is wonderfully versatile design.
Also I had just visited Oslo myself last year, and saw a lot of the
same areas as shown in the video. Viewing the GJOA in the "flesh" when
I was there brought tears to my eyes as I have visited several times
the community in the High Arctic (Gjoa Haven) where the GJOA
overwintered in the ice. I had no idea the ship was was still with
us. And kept outside all year long!
Those Norwegians are one tough bunch of seafarers and skilled boat
builders I have to tell you. They actually where the first to explore
and claim the Canadian Arctic. I expect they felt they already had
enough rock and ice already so gave it back:-) The Canadian Arctic is
filled with Norwegian names. Most amazing when you realize that Norway
to this day has only 4 million people or so.
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/arctic/inuit/communit.htm
If Bjorn approves I could burn a copy of his video Sam.
Cheers, Nels (A simple swede - said to be a norwegian with his brains
knocked out:-)
Thanks, John. Is that information posted on the web
somewhere?
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
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somewhere?
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
> They look to have nearly the same hull. Jochems has__________________________________
> significant water
> ballast where Delaware uses 110 gallons of fuel to
> help get her down to her
> lines. Jochems does not have the "anti-plumphing"
> forefoot of Delaware
> although I expect that PCB&F would now recommend
> this feature for just about
> every boat.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:54 AM
> Subject: [bolger] William D. Jochems, wasDelaware
> concept--trawler yacht
>
>
> > Can anybody steer me to some info on the Jochems?
> > Line drawings, etc? The Jochems was the genesis
> of
> > the Delaware concept, according to PB. I assume
> > (guess) that the Jochems uses leeboards, not a
> keel.
> > Is the Delaware hull just the Jochems hull, or are
> > there other mods? Thanks, Sam
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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They look to have nearly the same hull. Jochems has significant water
ballast where Delaware uses 110 gallons of fuel to help get her down to her
lines. Jochems does not have the "anti-plumphing" forefoot of Delaware
although I expect that PCB&F would now recommend this feature for just about
every boat.
ballast where Delaware uses 110 gallons of fuel to help get her down to her
lines. Jochems does not have the "anti-plumphing" forefoot of Delaware
although I expect that PCB&F would now recommend this feature for just about
every boat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: [bolger] William D. Jochems, wasDelaware concept--trawler yacht
> Can anybody steer me to some info on the Jochems?
> Line drawings, etc? The Jochems was the genesis of
> the Delaware concept, according to PB. I assume
> (guess) that the Jochems uses leeboards, not a keel.
> Is the Delaware hull just the Jochems hull, or are
> there other mods? Thanks, Sam
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Can anybody steer me to some info on the Jochems?
Line drawings, etc? The Jochems was the genesis of
the Delaware concept, according to PB. I assume
(guess) that the Jochems uses leeboards, not a keel.
Is the Delaware hull just the Jochems hull, or are
there other mods? Thanks, Sam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Line drawings, etc? The Jochems was the genesis of
the Delaware concept, according to PB. I assume
(guess) that the Jochems uses leeboards, not a keel.
Is the Delaware hull just the Jochems hull, or are
there other mods? Thanks, Sam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
we're building an elegant punt to tend the Micro, and if I'm not mistaken,
it was originally intended to be built without any resin or glass. I'd bet
it could even be built without any glue - just a good coat of paint to seal
up the cracks, and it'd be fine.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
M á ximo
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:03 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Tender without fiberglass nor resin
Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that could be
constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/or resin. I
don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick, nymph...
Do you know which one could be? Thanks, regards, Máximo.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
it was originally intended to be built without any resin or glass. I'd bet
it could even be built without any glue - just a good coat of paint to seal
up the cracks, and it'd be fine.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
M á ximo
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:03 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Tender without fiberglass nor resin
Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that could be
constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/or resin. I
don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick, nymph...
Do you know which one could be? Thanks, regards, Máximo.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Máximo,
Nearly all the early Bolger plywood boats could be built without
fibreglass and resin, although they would require waterproof glue.
Elegant Punt ((7'9" x' 3'7") and Tortoise (6'5" x 3'2") are certainly
in that group. Not sure about the other two.
Howard
Nearly all the early Bolger plywood boats could be built without
fibreglass and resin, although they would require waterproof glue.
Elegant Punt ((7'9" x' 3'7") and Tortoise (6'5" x 3'2") are certainly
in that group. Not sure about the other two.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Máximo <grupos@p...> wrote:
> Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that could
be
> constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/or
resin. I
> don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick,
nymph...
> Do you know which one could be?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Máximo <grupos@p...> wrote:
Nymph, Tortoise and Brick.
Reed
> Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that couldbe
> constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/orresin. I
> don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick,nymph...
> Do you know which one could be? Thanks, regards, Máximo.Of the 4 you mention only Nymph needs fiberglass and resin. I've built
Nymph, Tortoise and Brick.
Reed
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
. Even the
I've yet to launch Windermere but can state,with unreserved
enthusiasim and ruined knees,that she has oodles of lounging space up
on the flight deck...OOOPS....I mean roof.Perhaps it is not readily
apparent either on the tiny study plans posted in one of the
Windermere files but Bolger does offer a draw bridge type folding
extension to the aft deck thereby providing a wonderful patio(or is it
porch?) for various culinary treats,wine sampling and general mindless
gazing at the water from comfy lounge chairs.As for those sultry
summer evenings, it has been my experience up here that this is also
the best time for those sluty and thirsty mesquitos to come-a-
feasting on my considerable girth.Thankfully,Windermeres ample salon
and large dinette will provide the equivalent to fine dining on the
water front with the best view in the house.For those who like to boat
with the younger animals of our species,Windermere does carry 2
dinghys on the roof for endless hours of on-the-water fun and that
roof also can serve as a grand diving platform for those so inclined.
However,when used as designed(a two person live-a-board) she offers
serious full time,fully insulated live-a-board comforts,not the least
of which are an infinite number of options in climate control.That
is,you can control just how much exposure you desire from UV
rays,wind,insects,rain,sleet and snow.With space for an onboard
portable genset and her impressive 2 bank 12 battery electric storage
capacity,running one of the small RV air-conditioners is a reality
which can forever ban those hot and muggy nights tossing about in ones
own sweat.Needless to say,this last option does open up new horizons
for some darned wholesome chamber antics unfettered by thoughts of
dying from heat stroke just at that most blessed of heavenly
moments...nudge,nudge,wink,wink :-)
Furthermore,thanks to her vast expanse of clear windows, the vistas
available are on par with whatever you would get sitting out on an
exposed porch. Claustrophobia was not one of your complaints,but alot
or most boats with large deck spaces(porches) do tend to have darkish
little caves passing for living accomadations.
Your self assessment concluding with the need for more boats is
perhaps the only honest answer or solution to your needs.Otherwise,it
requires very deep pockets to get everything we could ever want for
all in one boat and this may come with sevre constraints,ie;goodbye to
shoal draft,goodbye to trailerablity and goodbye to ever being able to
claim you built her yourself. But of course all of this would be
rather quaint and meaningless since you would be rich,rich,rich and
not have time to bother as you hobnobbed with other rich,rich
creatures :-D
Say hello to the simple life,embrace poverty and wait with growing
excitement for the final days of liberation when the youngest will be
clamoring at the door to leave home and make it on their own:-)
In the meantime, scrounge yourself up four 45 gallon drums and build
yourself a raft or swim platform and install a parasol with table and
chairs beneath it..........;-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,hoping to not sound too much like a cheap used-car
salesman...............
wrote:
. Even the
> elegant Topaz, Champlain, and Windermere are too much 'inside' boatsfor me.
> How about a boat with intelligently designed accomondations that hassome
> outside living space?to
>
> For instance, what would it cost to stretch Windermere out by 8-12'
> create a front or back "porch" on which to enjoy a crisp fume blancon a
> sultry summer evening? I'll wager it would not add much more 10% tothe cost
> of the boat and it would make it more of a pleasure to own as well asHi John,
> greatly increase the it's resale value. Ditto for Champlain.
I've yet to launch Windermere but can state,with unreserved
enthusiasim and ruined knees,that she has oodles of lounging space up
on the flight deck...OOOPS....I mean roof.Perhaps it is not readily
apparent either on the tiny study plans posted in one of the
Windermere files but Bolger does offer a draw bridge type folding
extension to the aft deck thereby providing a wonderful patio(or is it
porch?) for various culinary treats,wine sampling and general mindless
gazing at the water from comfy lounge chairs.As for those sultry
summer evenings, it has been my experience up here that this is also
the best time for those sluty and thirsty mesquitos to come-a-
feasting on my considerable girth.Thankfully,Windermeres ample salon
and large dinette will provide the equivalent to fine dining on the
water front with the best view in the house.For those who like to boat
with the younger animals of our species,Windermere does carry 2
dinghys on the roof for endless hours of on-the-water fun and that
roof also can serve as a grand diving platform for those so inclined.
However,when used as designed(a two person live-a-board) she offers
serious full time,fully insulated live-a-board comforts,not the least
of which are an infinite number of options in climate control.That
is,you can control just how much exposure you desire from UV
rays,wind,insects,rain,sleet and snow.With space for an onboard
portable genset and her impressive 2 bank 12 battery electric storage
capacity,running one of the small RV air-conditioners is a reality
which can forever ban those hot and muggy nights tossing about in ones
own sweat.Needless to say,this last option does open up new horizons
for some darned wholesome chamber antics unfettered by thoughts of
dying from heat stroke just at that most blessed of heavenly
moments...nudge,nudge,wink,wink :-)
Furthermore,thanks to her vast expanse of clear windows, the vistas
available are on par with whatever you would get sitting out on an
exposed porch. Claustrophobia was not one of your complaints,but alot
or most boats with large deck spaces(porches) do tend to have darkish
little caves passing for living accomadations.
Your self assessment concluding with the need for more boats is
perhaps the only honest answer or solution to your needs.Otherwise,it
requires very deep pockets to get everything we could ever want for
all in one boat and this may come with sevre constraints,ie;goodbye to
shoal draft,goodbye to trailerablity and goodbye to ever being able to
claim you built her yourself. But of course all of this would be
rather quaint and meaningless since you would be rich,rich,rich and
not have time to bother as you hobnobbed with other rich,rich
creatures :-D
Say hello to the simple life,embrace poverty and wait with growing
excitement for the final days of liberation when the youngest will be
clamoring at the door to leave home and make it on their own:-)
In the meantime, scrounge yourself up four 45 gallon drums and build
yourself a raft or swim platform and install a parasol with table and
chairs beneath it..........;-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,hoping to not sound too much like a cheap used-car
salesman...............
> John,I've also been intrigued by SMS.
>
> Just imagine the size of your beer cooler! I love that design and
> also the SMALL MOTORSAILER which has basically the same hull in a
> trailerable configuration.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
>
> Why not just use the dingy or and inflatable for a swim platform? Or
> better yet park at the beach:-)
>
> Nels
The big problem with SMS is that it is not a completed design. Given
the delays in known commissions, IE Sitka and Insolent 60, it seems a
waste to spend much time dreaming about other incomplete designs.
One would have to take an existing AS-xx build it sans the keel, and
create their own SMS.
In a message dated 6/29/05 1:18:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
smallboatdesigner@...writes:
declasse! A pontoon boat is certainly the sort of minimalist, Occam's-razor type
of solution that exemplifies Bolger's most distinctive designs, at least to me.
For usual uses in protected inland waters, it is difficult to find fault with
them on other than aesthetic grounds.
Not that Bolger would agree! A few years ago I ordered a set of "Hawkeye"
plans from him, contemplating building one to replace the retired Century Viking
that had been my parents' lake conveyance for many years. I also considered
building a rather narrow and small pontoon boat as an alternative. He sent me
the plans, along with a nice note (which I have lost or misplaced), the gist of
which was that he held pontoon boats in no regard and agreed with my father's
opinion that they are just too ugly to be put on the water by anyone with any
aesthetic sensitivities. I can't say that I disagree with that assessment, but
I don't think that "Hawkeye" is very attractive looking either.
As it was, time and budgetary considerations lead me to purchase and modify a
used aluminum boat rather than build new. My parents' boatlift would not
accommodate a pontoon boat in any event, but I did notice that the asking prices
of older pontoon boats in MN were much higher than those for conventional boats
of comparable age, equipment and condition. The modified aluminum boat, while
quite capable in most respects, is less than ideal as a vehicle for aging
parents. After I've finished my current project, I may well turn my hand to
building a pontoon boat.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
smallboatdesigner@...writes:
> For lounging around at anchor it's tough to beat a pontoon boat.Pontoon Boats! If Bolger had invented them, perhaps they would seem less
declasse! A pontoon boat is certainly the sort of minimalist, Occam's-razor type
of solution that exemplifies Bolger's most distinctive designs, at least to me.
For usual uses in protected inland waters, it is difficult to find fault with
them on other than aesthetic grounds.
Not that Bolger would agree! A few years ago I ordered a set of "Hawkeye"
plans from him, contemplating building one to replace the retired Century Viking
that had been my parents' lake conveyance for many years. I also considered
building a rather narrow and small pontoon boat as an alternative. He sent me
the plans, along with a nice note (which I have lost or misplaced), the gist of
which was that he held pontoon boats in no regard and agreed with my father's
opinion that they are just too ugly to be put on the water by anyone with any
aesthetic sensitivities. I can't say that I disagree with that assessment, but
I don't think that "Hawkeye" is very attractive looking either.
As it was, time and budgetary considerations lead me to purchase and modify a
used aluminum boat rather than build new. My parents' boatlift would not
accommodate a pontoon boat in any event, but I did notice that the asking prices
of older pontoon boats in MN were much higher than those for conventional boats
of comparable age, equipment and condition. The modified aluminum boat, while
quite capable in most respects, is less than ideal as a vehicle for aging
parents. After I've finished my current project, I may well turn my hand to
building a pontoon boat.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/lst
These is about the perfect party type/fishing boat for a family IMO.
Nels
wrote:
> Our 27'er (it rhymes with "Barty Parge") serves us well in thiscapacity,
> but I'm always looking for the next boat.Go here and look at the Pelican folder.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/lst
These is about the perfect party type/fishing boat for a family IMO.
Nels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
|
| Why not just use the dingy or and inflatable for a swim platform? Or
| better yet park at the beach:-)
|
| Nels
|
My home lake is deep and lacks good beaches. We normally anchor in 40' of
water and toss the kids over the side, burgers on the grill, and pop a top!
Our 27'er (it rhymes with "Barty Parge") serves us well in this capacity,
but I'm always looking for the next boat.
That issue will eventually wend its way through the mails to me at which
time I could scan it.
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
time I could scan it.
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
>If I had a scanner, I'd post it. It is in the July 1,
>2005 issue, I think (don't have it in front of me).
>Delaware is 26' x 7.5', rocker-bottomed sharpie, with
>a nose fairing to (I guess) reduce pounding underway
>and noise at anchor. Pretty traditional looking for
>Bolger--v-berth forward, midship cabin with head and
>galley, and open cockpit aft. 25 horse high-thrust ob
>located under the cockpit, protected by twin skegs.
>Based on the hull of the W'm Jochems. Maybe somebody
>can scan it in.
>
>--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>What issue MAIB?
>>
>>
>>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
Just imagine the size of your beer cooler! I love that design and
also the SMALL MOTORSAILER which has basically the same hull in a
trailerable configuration.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
Why not just use the dingy or and inflatable for a swim platform? Or
better yet park at the beach:-)
Nels
wrote:
> My complaint has nothing to do with claustrophobia, it's just thatI like
> being outside.swim
>
> There aren't many home-built boats that I'd classify as being good
> platforms. For lounging around at anchor it's tough to beat apontoon boat.
>Alaskan motor
> One Bolger boat that intrigues me because is the Bolger's 30'
> sailing cargo boat. It's not the cargo hold that makes the boat soJohn,
> desirable, it's the big open deck in the middle of the boat.
>
Just imagine the size of your beer cooler! I love that design and
also the SMALL MOTORSAILER which has basically the same hull in a
trailerable configuration.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
Why not just use the dingy or and inflatable for a swim platform? Or
better yet park at the beach:-)
Nels
Hello: I read somewhere of a Bolger tender or small boat, that could be
constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/or resin. I
don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick, nymph...
Do you know which one could be? Thanks, regards, Máximo.
constructed on plywood and paint only, without fiberglass and/or resin. I
don t exactly remember if it was the elegant punt, tortoise, brick, nymph...
Do you know which one could be? Thanks, regards, Máximo.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
as a B-day gift.
The latest issue has a feature cover article on a Bolger inspired
35'X 8' electric design based on Tennessee. Has a box keel similar
to Hawkeye wherein are 8 golf cart batteries an Eteck motor and a
bow thruster! It also has air conditioning, fridge/freezer
macerating head and an inverter to run the DVD system and has run
for up to 10 hours on the batteries at 4 knots. It also has a small
Honda generator.
Some details here and also check the "latest news" link. The boat's
name is Nomad III.
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/mundoo3.php
Nels
wrote:
> I got two MAIB's this week. And the latest WoodenBoat! Lots ofreading to
> catch up on this weekend...I still don't have the latest MAIB's but I got a subscription to WB
>
as a B-day gift.
The latest issue has a feature cover article on a Bolger inspired
35'X 8' electric design based on Tennessee. Has a box keel similar
to Hawkeye wherein are 8 golf cart batteries an Eteck motor and a
bow thruster! It also has air conditioning, fridge/freezer
macerating head and an inverter to run the DVD system and has run
for up to 10 hours on the batteries at 4 knots. It also has a small
Honda generator.
Some details here and also check the "latest news" link. The boat's
name is Nomad III.
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/mundoo3.php
Nels
My complaint has nothing to do with claustrophobia, it's just that I like
being outside.
There aren't many home-built boats that I'd classify as being good swim
platforms. For lounging around at anchor it's tough to beat a pontoon boat.
One Bolger boat that intrigues me because is the Bolger's 30' Alaskan motor
sailing cargo boat. It's not the cargo hold that makes the boat so
desirable, it's the big open deck in the middle of the boat.
being outside.
There aren't many home-built boats that I'd classify as being good swim
platforms. For lounging around at anchor it's tough to beat a pontoon boat.
One Bolger boat that intrigues me because is the Bolger's 30' Alaskan motor
sailing cargo boat. It's not the cargo hold that makes the boat so
desirable, it's the big open deck in the middle of the boat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Delaware concept--trawler yacht
> > a lousy swim platform.
>
> Reports of the 'glass house' of Birdwatcher are the
> opposite of claustrophobic, ditto Sam reports for
> Topaz, and I echo too for MicroNav.
>
> The 'pinked stern' deck of the redesigned
> Birdwatcher provides a 'swim platform' of sorts.
>
> a lousy swim platform.Reports of the 'glass house' of Birdwatcher are the
opposite of claustrophobic, ditto Sam reports for
Topaz, and I echo too for MicroNav.
The 'pinked stern' deck of the redesigned
Birdwatcher provides a 'swim platform' of sorts.
Ain't that the truth! Topaz, for all her virtues, is
a lousy swim platform. And like all boats without a
separate sole and bilge, what you bring in the cabin,
you live with. In my next life as an idle rich heir
to a shipping fortune, I'll have a power cat with a
high bridge deck for outside lounging, with a
hydraulic swim platform to raise me up and lower me
down to the water, while the butler mixes me a rum
punch and a lovely young girl rubs my temples and
whispers "poor thing, poor thing" in my ear.
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
a lousy swim platform. And like all boats without a
separate sole and bilge, what you bring in the cabin,
you live with. In my next life as an idle rich heir
to a shipping fortune, I'll have a power cat with a
high bridge deck for outside lounging, with a
hydraulic swim platform to raise me up and lower me
down to the water, while the butler mixes me a rum
punch and a lovely young girl rubs my temples and
whispers "poor thing, poor thing" in my ear.
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
>____________________________________________________
>
> That's good to hear Sam.
>
> Yet another reason that I did not mention in my
> previous post about my
> desire for outside space is that we most often use
> our boat as platform for
> swimming and lounging in the sun, often with guests.
> Having a boat load of
> dripping wet kids (and adults) and the only place
> for them to sit is on your
> bed is less than ideal.
>
> It's all horses for courses I suppose. My problem
> with boats is that I
> simply require too many of them to do everything I
> want to do and my wallet
> won't let me!
>
>
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
That's good to hear Sam.
Yet another reason that I did not mention in my previous post about my
desire for outside space is that we most often use our boat as platform for
swimming and lounging in the sun, often with guests. Having a boat load of
dripping wet kids (and adults) and the only place for them to sit is on your
bed is less than ideal.
It's all horses for courses I suppose. My problem with boats is that I
simply require too many of them to do everything I want to do and my wallet
won't let me!
Yet another reason that I did not mention in my previous post about my
desire for outside space is that we most often use our boat as platform for
swimming and lounging in the sun, often with guests. Having a boat load of
dripping wet kids (and adults) and the only place for them to sit is on your
bed is less than ideal.
It's all horses for courses I suppose. My problem with boats is that I
simply require too many of them to do everything I want to do and my wallet
won't let me!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Delaware concept--trawler yacht
> John, I can speak about Topaz in this regard. One of
> the problems I foraw with the design was lack of
> outside space. I tried to configure an outside
> steering station because I though always being in the
> cabin would be hot and confining. Not so! With all
> those big window open there is nothing more pleasant
> than the shade of that cabin in the summer. I don't
> know about the fume blanc, but it is hard to imagine a
> more pleasant place to drink a cold beer on a hot
> summer afternoon than the cabin of a Topaz. I even
> fish out those big windows.
> Of course, Delaware is more suited to big-water
> work, and has less of a greenhouse cabin than Topaz,
> although it still looks exceptionally well ventilated.
> I'd envision a lowerable light hardtop or canvas top
> over the stern deck, which has 6' of outside lounging
> space and would be pleasant in port of an evening, I
> bet. Sam>
>
John, I can speak about Topaz in this regard. One of
the problems I foraw with the design was lack of
outside space. I tried to configure an outside
steering station because I though always being in the
cabin would be hot and confining. Not so! With all
those big window open there is nothing more pleasant
than the shade of that cabin in the summer. I don't
know about the fume blanc, but it is hard to imagine a
more pleasant place to drink a cold beer on a hot
summer afternoon than the cabin of a Topaz. I even
fish out those big windows.
Of course, Delaware is more suited to big-water
work, and has less of a greenhouse cabin than Topaz,
although it still looks exceptionally well ventilated.
I'd envision a lowerable light hardtop or canvas top
over the stern deck, which has 6' of outside lounging
space and would be pleasant in port of an evening, I
bet. Sam>
I'm getting tired of seeing so many otherwise nice
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
the problems I foraw with the design was lack of
outside space. I tried to configure an outside
steering station because I though always being in the
cabin would be hot and confining. Not so! With all
those big window open there is nothing more pleasant
than the shade of that cabin in the summer. I don't
know about the fume blanc, but it is hard to imagine a
more pleasant place to drink a cold beer on a hot
summer afternoon than the cabin of a Topaz. I even
fish out those big windows.
Of course, Delaware is more suited to big-water
work, and has less of a greenhouse cabin than Topaz,
although it still looks exceptionally well ventilated.
I'd envision a lowerable light hardtop or canvas top
over the stern deck, which has 6' of outside lounging
space and would be pleasant in port of an evening, I
bet. Sam>
I'm getting tired of seeing so many otherwise nice
> designs that have no deck__________________________________________________
> space. Delaware is much better than Tahiti in this
> regard, but I think I'd
> both of them miserable to own in the sunny, hot, and
> humid south. Even the
> elegant Topaz, Champlain, and Windermere are too
> much 'inside' boats for me.
> How about a boat with intelligently designed
> accomondations that has some
> outside living space?
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I got two MAIB's this week. And the latest WoodenBoat! Lots of reading to
catch up on this weekend...
The June 15 MAIB has quite an attractive 24' cat-yawl daysailer "Chimera"
that I'm surprised no one commented on. I've only learned about this one in
the last couple of days and I've already entertained a couple of nice
daydreams about her.
For an economical cruiser for a couple, Delaware is a good concept. However,
I'm getting tired of seeing so many otherwise nice designs that have no deck
space. Delaware is much better than Tahiti in this regard, but I think I'd
both of them miserable to own in the sunny, hot, and humid south. Even the
elegant Topaz, Champlain, and Windermere are too much 'inside' boats for me.
How about a boat with intelligently designed accomondations that has some
outside living space?
For instance, what would it cost to stretch Windermere out by 8-12' to
create a front or back "porch" on which to enjoy a crisp fume blanc on a
sultry summer evening? I'll wager it would not add much more 10% to the cost
of the boat and it would make it more of a pleasure to own as well as
greatly increase the it's resale value. Ditto for Champlain.
catch up on this weekend...
The June 15 MAIB has quite an attractive 24' cat-yawl daysailer "Chimera"
that I'm surprised no one commented on. I've only learned about this one in
the last couple of days and I've already entertained a couple of nice
daydreams about her.
For an economical cruiser for a couple, Delaware is a good concept. However,
I'm getting tired of seeing so many otherwise nice designs that have no deck
space. Delaware is much better than Tahiti in this regard, but I think I'd
both of them miserable to own in the sunny, hot, and humid south. Even the
elegant Topaz, Champlain, and Windermere are too much 'inside' boats for me.
How about a boat with intelligently designed accomondations that has some
outside living space?
For instance, what would it cost to stretch Windermere out by 8-12' to
create a front or back "porch" on which to enjoy a crisp fume blanc on a
sultry summer evening? I'll wager it would not add much more 10% to the cost
of the boat and it would make it more of a pleasure to own as well as
greatly increase the it's resale value. Ditto for Champlain.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Delaware concept--trawler yacht
> If I had a scanner, I'd post it. It is in the July 1,
> 2005 issue, I think (don't have it in front of me).
> Delaware is 26' x 7.5', rocker-bottomed sharpie, with
> a nose fairing to (I guess) reduce pounding underway
> and noise at anchor. Pretty traditional looking for
> Bolger--v-berth forward, midship cabin with head and
> galley, and open cockpit aft. 25 horse high-thrust ob
> located under the cockpit, protected by twin skegs.
> Based on the hull of the W'm Jochems. Maybe somebody
> can scan it in.
>
> --- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> > What issue MAIB?
>
If I had a scanner, I'd post it. It is in the July 1,
2005 issue, I think (don't have it in front of me).
Delaware is 26' x 7.5', rocker-bottomed sharpie, with
a nose fairing to (I guess) reduce pounding underway
and noise at anchor. Pretty traditional looking for
Bolger--v-berth forward, midship cabin with head and
galley, and open cockpit aft. 25 horse high-thrust ob
located under the cockpit, protected by twin skegs.
Based on the hull of the W'm Jochems. Maybe somebody
can scan it in.
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
2005 issue, I think (don't have it in front of me).
Delaware is 26' x 7.5', rocker-bottomed sharpie, with
a nose fairing to (I guess) reduce pounding underway
and noise at anchor. Pretty traditional looking for
Bolger--v-berth forward, midship cabin with head and
galley, and open cockpit aft. 25 horse high-thrust ob
located under the cockpit, protected by twin skegs.
Based on the hull of the W'm Jochems. Maybe somebody
can scan it in.
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> What issue MAIB?__________________________________________________
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
What issue MAIB?
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
>I have told Mr. Bolger that if he finishes this
>concept, set out in the latest Messing About in Boats,
>I will build it. It looks like the perfect Bahamas
>displacement power sharpie, using outboard power,
>simple to build, seaworthy and trailerable. And a
>pretty, pretty boat, to boot. Anybody else interested
>in this design? Sam
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Make Yahoo! your home page
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
How about posting a few scans of this design from MAIB in one of the files section so people who haven't got the magazine can see it....Please. It sounds interesting!
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
gbship <gbship@...> wrote:
San: I'm not ready to give up sailing yet, but if I ever go to power,
it will be something like this. Really like the design & layout. Now
if Bolger could just modify this to be a motorsailer . . .
Gary Blankenship
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
gbship <gbship@...> wrote:
San: I'm not ready to give up sailing yet, but if I ever go to power,
it will be something like this. Really like the design & layout. Now
if Bolger could just modify this to be a motorsailer . . .
Gary Blankenship
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> I have told Mr. Bolger that if he finishes thisBolger rules!!!
> concept, set out in the latest Messing About in Boats,
> I will build it. It looks like the perfect Bahamas
> displacement power sharpie, using outboard power,
> simple to build, seaworthy and trailerable. And a
> pretty, pretty boat, to boot. Anybody else interested
> in this design? Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
San: I'm not ready to give up sailing yet, but if I ever go to power,
it will be something like this. Really like the design & layout. Now
if Bolger could just modify this to be a motorsailer . . .
Gary Blankenship
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
it will be something like this. Really like the design & layout. Now
if Bolger could just modify this to be a motorsailer . . .
Gary Blankenship
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> I have told Mr. Bolger that if he finishes this
> concept, set out in the latest Messing About in Boats,
> I will build it. It looks like the perfect Bahamas
> displacement power sharpie, using outboard power,
> simple to build, seaworthy and trailerable. And a
> pretty, pretty boat, to boot. Anybody else interested
> in this design? Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
I have told Mr. Bolger that if he finishes this
concept, set out in the latest Messing About in Boats,
I will build it. It looks like the perfect Bahamas
displacement power sharpie, using outboard power,
simple to build, seaworthy and trailerable. And a
pretty, pretty boat, to boot. Anybody else interested
in this design? Sam
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
concept, set out in the latest Messing About in Boats,
I will build it. It looks like the perfect Bahamas
displacement power sharpie, using outboard power,
simple to build, seaworthy and trailerable. And a
pretty, pretty boat, to boot. Anybody else interested
in this design? Sam
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Wow, thanks, great. What a sweet little boat.
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
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--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> Sam,
>
> I just sent you an offline email with an Excel
> attachment containing
> the offsets as I scalled them from the 11 X 17
> cartoon #49 plans. Hope
> these help. Sorry that I can't help with a design
> program to plug
> these offsets into!
>
> Lewis
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> > I think I have seen reference by memebers of this
> > group to computer progams that will determine such
> > thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc.
> I
> > have been fooling around with modifying box keel
> > (seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger
> small
> > motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
> > Thanks. Sam.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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Sam,
I just sent you an offline email with an Excel attachment containing
the offsets as I scalled them from the 11 X 17 cartoon #49 plans. Hope
these help. Sorry that I can't help with a design program to plug
these offsets into!
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
I just sent you an offline email with an Excel attachment containing
the offsets as I scalled them from the 11 X 17 cartoon #49 plans. Hope
these help. Sorry that I can't help with a design program to plug
these offsets into!
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> I think I have seen reference by memebers of this
> group to computer progams that will determine such
> thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc. I
> have been fooling around with modifying box keel
> (seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger small
> motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
> Thanks. Sam.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
Hi Sam, Try www.carlsondesign.com and scroll down to the hull design
option. It's free,basic but good for what you have mentioned.
Cheers, Darian.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
option. It's free,basic but good for what you have mentioned.
Cheers, Darian.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> I think I have seen reference by memebers of this
> group to computer progams that will determine such
> thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc. I
> have been fooling around with modifying box keel
> (seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger small
> motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
> Thanks. Sam.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
One of my favorites, Surprise:
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Surprise.html
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Surprise.html
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:27:43 -0800, Ron F wrote:
>
> Have you visited the Atkin boat sitehttp://www.atkinboatplans.com? There
are quite a few Sea Bright Skiff designs there and, although none of them
are (as I remember) designed as a motor sailer, it would be easy enough to
do.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I Can't take a well-tanned person seriously. <Cleveland Amory>
Have you visited the Atkin boat sitehttp://www.atkinboatplans.com? There are quite a few Sea Bright Skiff designs there and, although none of them are (as I remember) designed as a motor sailer, it would be easy enough to do.
Ron Fossum
Ron Fossum
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Glasscock
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: [bolger] computer design help--off topic
I think I have seen reference by memebers of this
group to computer progams that will determine such
thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc. I
have been fooling around with modifying box keel
(seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger small
motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
Thanks. Sam.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think I have seen reference by memebers of this
group to computer progams that will determine such
thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc. I
have been fooling around with modifying box keel
(seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger small
motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
Thanks. Sam.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
group to computer progams that will determine such
thinges as displacement, center of bouyancy, etc. I
have been fooling around with modifying box keel
(seabright skiff-type) designs like the Bolger small
motorsailor, and any shortcuts would be great.
Thanks. Sam.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I think you might mean Sabb diesel (Norwegian), not Saab.
See this great sight devoted to this engine, sound and movies:
http://home.no.net/sabb1/
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
See this great sight devoted to this engine, sound and movies:
http://home.no.net/sabb1/
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> For displacement hulls, I know Phil Bogler likes
> the Deutz aircooled engines. George Buehler
> recommends the older heavier slow-turning marine
> diesels like the post-war Saab or pre-1980 Lister. He
> describes these engines as "readily available" used,
> for rebuilding, in his "backyard boatbuilding" book,
> which is more than ten years old now, I think. Does
> anyone in the group have any idea where such old
> blocks are available now, whether parts are available
> for rebuild/maintenance, and how they stack up against
> a light, modern, fast-turning diesel, in middle-power
> range (say fifty hp)? Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
connected to a special drive leg. It is stated that heat from the oil
cooler can be used to heat the cabin.
http://deutzusa.com/Products/2011.html
Would be interesting to compare the costs for one of these
installations to the standard second-hand marine rebuild
installation.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> For displacement hulls, I know Phil Bogler likesFor FIJI it calls for a Deutz 40 hp oil-cooled industrial engine,
> the Deutz aircooled engines.
connected to a special drive leg. It is stated that heat from the oil
cooler can be used to heat the cabin.
http://deutzusa.com/Products/2011.html
Would be interesting to compare the costs for one of these
installations to the standard second-hand marine rebuild
installation.
Cheers, Nels
A good place to start ishttp://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.htmlThe "Old
Engines" tab points to several places that might help.
Bryon Kass athttp://www.enginecom.com/cd.htmwas a lot of help when I was
trying to figure out what sort of used Volvo I'd bought for Dadori, my
not-to-be-finished 34 footer. I only know him thru Internet conversations,
but ...
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Engines" tab points to several places that might help.
Bryon Kass athttp://www.enginecom.com/cd.htmwas a lot of help when I was
trying to figure out what sort of used Volvo I'd bought for Dadori, my
not-to-be-finished 34 footer. I only know him thru Internet conversations,
but ...
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
> For displacement hulls, I know Phil Bogler likes
> the Deutz aircooled engines. George Buehler
> recommends the older heavier slow-turning marine
> diesels like the post-war Saab or pre-1980 Lister. He
> describes these engines as "readily available" used,
> for rebuilding, in his "backyard boatbuilding" book,
> which is more than ten years old now, I think. Does
> anyone in the group have any idea where such old
> blocks are available now, whether parts are available
> for rebuild/maintenance, and how they stack up against
> a light, modern, fast-turning diesel, in middle-power
> range (say fifty hp)? Sam
For displacement hulls, I know Phil Bogler likes
the Deutz aircooled engines. George Buehler
recommends the older heavier slow-turning marine
diesels like the post-war Saab or pre-1980 Lister. He
describes these engines as "readily available" used,
for rebuilding, in his "backyard boatbuilding" book,
which is more than ten years old now, I think. Does
anyone in the group have any idea where such old
blocks are available now, whether parts are available
for rebuild/maintenance, and how they stack up against
a light, modern, fast-turning diesel, in middle-power
range (say fifty hp)? Sam
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
the Deutz aircooled engines. George Buehler
recommends the older heavier slow-turning marine
diesels like the post-war Saab or pre-1980 Lister. He
describes these engines as "readily available" used,
for rebuilding, in his "backyard boatbuilding" book,
which is more than ten years old now, I think. Does
anyone in the group have any idea where such old
blocks are available now, whether parts are available
for rebuild/maintenance, and how they stack up against
a light, modern, fast-turning diesel, in middle-power
range (say fifty hp)? Sam
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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Many of the designs are by Jacques Martens of Martens-Goossens, Inc. If you enter Martens-Goossens on the google search engine you'll come up with a bunch of sites which feature his designs.
Ron Fossum
Ron Fossum
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Glasscock
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 3:19 PM
Subject: [bolger] Trawler 28--off topic (was small motorsailer)
A week or so ago somebody posted a link to
bateau.com's trawler 28--which like a number of Bolger
designs (like small motorsailer) uses a
seabright-style box keel. Does anybody know anything
about the designer at "Bateau.com?" Some
interesting-looking boats at the site, but nothing
about who designs them. Sam
--- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
>
__________________________________
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Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It looks like Jacques Mertens is the designer of most or all the
boats there. The website is owned by Mertens-Goossens Inc.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
boats there. The website is owned by Mertens-Goossens Inc.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> A week or so ago somebody posted a link to
> bateau.com's trawler 28--which like a number of Bolger
> designs (like small motorsailer) uses a
> seabright-style box keel. Does anybody know anything
> about the designer at "Bateau.com?" Some
> interesting-looking boats at the site, but nothing
> about who designs them.
A week or so ago somebody posted a link to
bateau.com's trawler 28--which like a number of Bolger
designs (like small motorsailer) uses a
seabright-style box keel. Does anybody know anything
about the designer at "Bateau.com?" Some
interesting-looking boats at the site, but nothing
about who designs them. Sam
--- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
bateau.com's trawler 28--which like a number of Bolger
designs (like small motorsailer) uses a
seabright-style box keel. Does anybody know anything
about the designer at "Bateau.com?" Some
interesting-looking boats at the site, but nothing
about who designs them. Sam
--- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
> >
>
>__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
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Lewis, I am in, on either getting the design finished,
compensating you for your expenses doing the
expansions and building sequence, or some combination
thereof. I will let you know what reaction I get from
my inquiry to Mr. Bolger. Sam
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
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Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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compensating you for your expenses doing the
expansions and building sequence, or some combination
thereof. I will let you know what reaction I get from
my inquiry to Mr. Bolger. Sam
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> Nels,
>
> I don't recall Mr. Bolger having any objections to
> the concept at all,
> either in the SBJ #74 Cartoon article or in later
> correspondence. No
> one has stepped forward with the $1,000 (1996
> prices) to bring the
> cartoon to final building plan. Mr. Bolger had just
> recently done the
> "Fast Motorsailer" and suggested the construction
> plans for the Fast
> Motorsailer could apply to the Small Motorsailer. I
> actually bought a
> set at "study plan prices" and they were (are) a big
> help.
>
> If I remember the article correctly, Mr. Bolger
> proposed a different
> (taller) sail plan but the client wanted a shorter
> mast (makes sense
> with the tabernacle) and Mr. Bolger seemed to think
> it turned out all
> right.
>
> Lewis
>
> p.s. Are there three or four like-minded souls who
> would like to share
> the design cost?
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks for the tip, Bruce. I found the Col. H.
> in the
> > > Bolger 2 files. Same idea, except the Col. H.
> is a
> > > pure sailboat with an outboard aux., while
> motorsailer
> > > is more of a Beebe style "Passagemaker" type,
> but
> > > obviously the same lineage.
> >
> > What I find really appealing is that nice litte
> diesel down low in
> > the keel. With a good alternator and a diesel
> fireplace, I can
> > imagine it going up the inland passage towards
> Alaska. Taking it one
> > short chunk at a time and probably turning around
> before you got
> > there. But what a great experience it would be!
> >
> > I wonder what it is that Bolger objects to?
> Probably the sail plan
> > for one. A plan like Jessie Cooper would be
> interesting.
> >
> > Cheers, Nels
>
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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Nels,
I don't recall Mr. Bolger having any objections to the concept at all,
either in the SBJ #74 Cartoon article or in later correspondence. No
one has stepped forward with the $1,000 (1996 prices) to bring the
cartoon to final building plan. Mr. Bolger had just recently done the
"Fast Motorsailer" and suggested the construction plans for the Fast
Motorsailer could apply to the Small Motorsailer. I actually bought a
set at "study plan prices" and they were (are) a big help.
If I remember the article correctly, Mr. Bolger proposed a different
(taller) sail plan but the client wanted a shorter mast (makes sense
with the tabernacle) and Mr. Bolger seemed to think it turned out all
right.
Lewis
p.s. Are there three or four like-minded souls who would like to share
the design cost?
I don't recall Mr. Bolger having any objections to the concept at all,
either in the SBJ #74 Cartoon article or in later correspondence. No
one has stepped forward with the $1,000 (1996 prices) to bring the
cartoon to final building plan. Mr. Bolger had just recently done the
"Fast Motorsailer" and suggested the construction plans for the Fast
Motorsailer could apply to the Small Motorsailer. I actually bought a
set at "study plan prices" and they were (are) a big help.
If I remember the article correctly, Mr. Bolger proposed a different
(taller) sail plan but the client wanted a shorter mast (makes sense
with the tabernacle) and Mr. Bolger seemed to think it turned out all
right.
Lewis
p.s. Are there three or four like-minded souls who would like to share
the design cost?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the tip, Bruce. I found the Col. H. in the
> > Bolger 2 files. Same idea, except the Col. H. is a
> > pure sailboat with an outboard aux., while motorsailer
> > is more of a Beebe style "Passagemaker" type, but
> > obviously the same lineage.
>
> What I find really appealing is that nice litte diesel down low in
> the keel. With a good alternator and a diesel fireplace, I can
> imagine it going up the inland passage towards Alaska. Taking it one
> short chunk at a time and probably turning around before you got
> there. But what a great experience it would be!
>
> I wonder what it is that Bolger objects to? Probably the sail plan
> for one. A plan like Jessie Cooper would be interesting.
>
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
the keel. With a good alternator and a diesel fireplace, I can
imagine it going up the inland passage towards Alaska. Taking it one
short chunk at a time and probably turning around before you got
there. But what a great experience it would be!
I wonder what it is that Bolger objects to? Probably the sail plan
for one. A plan like Jessie Cooper would be interesting.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> Thanks for the tip, Bruce. I found the Col. H. in theWhat I find really appealing is that nice litte diesel down low in
> Bolger 2 files. Same idea, except the Col. H. is a
> pure sailboat with an outboard aux., while motorsailer
> is more of a Beebe style "Passagemaker" type, but
> obviously the same lineage.
the keel. With a good alternator and a diesel fireplace, I can
imagine it going up the inland passage towards Alaska. Taking it one
short chunk at a time and probably turning around before you got
there. But what a great experience it would be!
I wonder what it is that Bolger objects to? Probably the sail plan
for one. A plan like Jessie Cooper would be interesting.
Cheers, Nels
Thanks for the tip, Bruce. I found the Col. H. in the
Bolger 2 files. Same idea, except the Col. H. is a
pure sailboat with an outboard aux., while motorsailer
is more of a Beebe style "Passagemaker" type, but
obviously the same lineage.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
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Bolger 2 files. Same idea, except the Col. H. is a
pure sailboat with an outboard aux., while motorsailer
is more of a Beebe style "Passagemaker" type, but
obviously the same lineage.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> There are similarities between that boat and Col.
> Hassler,
> size, the box keel, and huge reserve buoyancy.
>
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>John,Actually the idea was to trim sharpies and skiffs by the stern and keep the
>
>if I remember about that departure, the reason that traditional fishing
>sharpies could carry that forefoot under water was that they were loaded
>woth tons of fosh, oysters, etc. The lines, Chapelle, e.g., show the
>boats at working displacement.When light, and there fore the forefoot
>would be dangerous, it was well out of the water.
>
>Hope my memory isn't faulty. At least this explanation is plausible.
>
>Cheers/Fader
forefoot at or just above the water's surface. Pile the arsters aft of
amidships.
The long run and skinny "counter" on a sharpie lets you load the stern down
like crazy before the transom gets anywhere near dragging.
Chesapeake skiffs with flat or V aft sections often have teensy transoms
for the same reason.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
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_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
I thought about those differences between loaded and unloaded when I was a dory
owner.
I was assuming hydrodynamic differences.. but you mention that a deep forefoot
while unloaded would be dangerous. What would be the cause of that ??
John
--- toobwiz <toobwiz@...> wrote:
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owner.
I was assuming hydrodynamic differences.. but you mention that a deep forefoot
while unloaded would be dangerous. What would be the cause of that ??
John
--- toobwiz <toobwiz@...> wrote:
> John,=====
>
> if I remember about that departure, the reason that traditional fishing
> sharpies could carry that forefoot under water was that they were loaded
> woth tons of fosh, oysters, etc. The lines, Chapelle, e.g., show the
> boats at working displacement.When light, and there fore the forefoot
> would be dangerous, it was well out of the water.
>
> Hope my memory isn't faulty. At least this explanation is plausible.
>
> Cheers/Fader
>
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John,
if I remember about that departure, the reason that traditional fishing
sharpies could carry that forefoot under water was that they were loaded
woth tons of fosh, oysters, etc. The lines, Chapelle, e.g., show the
boats at working displacement.When light, and there fore the forefoot
would be dangerous, it was well out of the water.
Hope my memory isn't faulty. At least this explanation is plausible.
Cheers/Fader
if I remember about that departure, the reason that traditional fishing
sharpies could carry that forefoot under water was that they were loaded
woth tons of fosh, oysters, etc. The lines, Chapelle, e.g., show the
boats at working displacement.When light, and there fore the forefoot
would be dangerous, it was well out of the water.
Hope my memory isn't faulty. At least this explanation is plausible.
Cheers/Fader
> linked below, the "small motorsailer" Bolger drew forThere are similarities between that boat and Col. Hassler,
size, the box keel, and huge reserve buoyancy.
Wow--sounds like you have done a lot of work on this
design. It sure is a pretty and practical looking
boat--I agree that the concept seems to be a great
one. I would be very interested to hear what Mr.
Bolger's reaction was: I am about to contact him on
the same subject. Did he seem to think the the boat
should be built?
A few other questions, if you have time. Was the
boat as you/PB envisioned it to be ballasted? Did Mr.
B. mention whether he would now recommend the
air-cooled Duetz diesel in the boat? Would he
recommend a steel plate on the bottom of the box keel?
If I get further along I would very much
appreciate a look at your work. Sam
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
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design. It sure is a pretty and practical looking
boat--I agree that the concept seems to be a great
one. I would be very interested to hear what Mr.
Bolger's reaction was: I am about to contact him on
the same subject. Did he seem to think the the boat
should be built?
A few other questions, if you have time. Was the
boat as you/PB envisioned it to be ballasted? Did Mr.
B. mention whether he would now recommend the
air-cooled Duetz diesel in the boat? Would he
recommend a steel plate on the bottom of the box keel?
If I get further along I would very much
appreciate a look at your work. Sam
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> I corresponded with Mr. Bolger on the same subject
> in about '95 or
> '96, and the answer was no and no. I think it is a
> great design and
> deserves to be built. I ordered the 11X17 cartoon
> sheets from PCB,
> worked up a table of offsets and faired them with an
> old CAD program.
>
> The hull should be easy to build and I worked up a
> "building sequence"
> using 1/2 ply thought (1, 2 and 3 layers). The
> biggest question I have
> is how to build the cabin top with strength to hold
> up the mast.
>
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I corresponded with Mr. Bolger on the same subject in about '95 or
'96, and the answer was no and no. I think it is a great design and
deserves to be built. I ordered the 11X17 cartoon sheets from PCB,
worked up a table of offsets and faired them with an old CAD program.
The hull should be easy to build and I worked up a "building sequence"
using 1/2 ply thought (1, 2 and 3 layers). The biggest question I have
is how to build the cabin top with strength to hold up the mast.
The concept is great and I think it would make a beautiful little ship.
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
'96, and the answer was no and no. I think it is a great design and
deserves to be built. I ordered the 11X17 cartoon sheets from PCB,
worked up a table of offsets and faired them with an old CAD program.
The hull should be easy to build and I worked up a "building sequence"
using 1/2 ply thought (1, 2 and 3 layers). The biggest question I have
is how to build the cabin top with strength to hold up the mast.
The concept is great and I think it would make a beautiful little ship.
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether the boat
> linked below, the "small motorsailer" Bolger drew for
> the Aug/Sept. 1990 Boat Journal, has been built, or if
> the plans have been presented in finished form? Sam
> --- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> >
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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Hi all,
I read somewhere that a sharpie has to have the stem out of the water by like
an inch or so. If it sticks in the water, it causes turbulence. Boats in the
Chapelle books have the forefoot deeper, but then Bolger describes one of his
sharpies as being the point that he finally emerged from Chapelle's influence.
That boat, forget which, had a high forefoot.
Reason I ask is that one of my schooners is V-bottomed, has a clipper bow with
the right sheer line, and (therefore) a deep forefoot.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/220006502/220012170qsVPIg
=====
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I read somewhere that a sharpie has to have the stem out of the water by like
an inch or so. If it sticks in the water, it causes turbulence. Boats in the
Chapelle books have the forefoot deeper, but then Bolger describes one of his
sharpies as being the point that he finally emerged from Chapelle's influence.
That boat, forget which, had a high forefoot.
Reason I ask is that one of my schooners is V-bottomed, has a clipper bow with
the right sheer line, and (therefore) a deep forefoot.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/220006502/220012170qsVPIg
=====
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was wondering if anyone knows whether the boat
linked below, the "small motorsailer" Bolger drew for
the Aug/Sept. 1990 Boat Journal, has been built, or if
the plans have been presented in finished form? Sam
--- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
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linked below, the "small motorsailer" Bolger drew for
the Aug/Sept. 1990 Boat Journal, has been built, or if
the plans have been presented in finished form? Sam
--- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
> >
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Zack Tiger <zackalicious@y...> wrote:
outboard with a bad powerhead is easy to find. An appropriate
connection from the head to the lower unit would likely be a plate and
a U joint with some drilling to get the diameters matched.
A possible downside is the resulting performance. The prop and
gearing would be designed for the old 2 stroke head. It may be
difficult to reprop, and certainly gearing would be outside the scope
on and easy homebuilder project.
> Why not simply take a Briggs and Stratton or TecumsethNo good reason not to Zack. The benefits your list are real. An
> or other vertical shaft engine, and mount it by means
> of an adaptor plate to the powerhead of an old
> outboard lower unit.
outboard with a bad powerhead is easy to find. An appropriate
connection from the head to the lower unit would likely be a plate and
a U joint with some drilling to get the diameters matched.
A possible downside is the resulting performance. The prop and
gearing would be designed for the old 2 stroke head. It may be
difficult to reprop, and certainly gearing would be outside the scope
on and easy homebuilder project.
Why not simply take a Briggs and Stratton or Tecumseth
or other vertical shaft engine, and mount it by means
of an adaptor plate to the powerhead of an old
outboard lower unit. It would give you an engineered
integral transmission and prop drive, and could be
mounted in a well to avoid the "outboard look". As the
new powerhead is air cooled, the water pump can either
be removed, or used to supply water to a wet exhaust.
seems like a relatively simple conversion.
--- David Joseph <david@...> wrote:
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or other vertical shaft engine, and mount it by means
of an adaptor plate to the powerhead of an old
outboard lower unit. It would give you an engineered
integral transmission and prop drive, and could be
mounted in a well to avoid the "outboard look". As the
new powerhead is air cooled, the water pump can either
be removed, or used to supply water to a wet exhaust.
seems like a relatively simple conversion.
--- David Joseph <david@...> wrote:
> It seems so counterproductive to be talking of<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129uip1hr/M=315388.5500238.6578046.3001176/D=groups/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1098132107/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https://www.orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS>
> putting a gasoline engine
> that belches crap into the air. How about a
> discussion about low cost
> electric power. There are some really beautiful
> small powerful
> efficient electric motors available.
> Anyone playing with electric power?
>
> David
>
> chodges31711 wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > > With some thought, I should be able to dream up
> a vertical shaft
> > > scheme that would provide cheap access to
> thousands of inexpensive
> > > engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive
> outboard that would be
> > > truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or
> no welding at all.
> >
> > The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the
> vertical shaft of the
> > engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the
> horizontal shaft.
> > They are held tegether by springs. The clutch
> pulls the wheel away
> > from the disk. Sliding the wheel toward the
> perimeter of the disk
> > increases the speed of the horiz. shaft. Sliding
> it to the opposite
> > side of the vertical shaft gives reverse. It is an
> infinitely
> > variable transmission with full speed and gear
> range in either
> > direction Same trans. as an antique Oldsmobile
> (1903 I think).
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
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We did this for years in the motorcycle repair business. Dirt bike
tanks were generally safe due to their small volume. Anything over two
gallons was risky.
Of course, it was also considered acceptable back then to drive home
after consuming a case of beer.
Doug
tanks were generally safe due to their small volume. Anything over two
gallons was risky.
Of course, it was also considered acceptable back then to drive home
after consuming a case of beer.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Phil S." <newbarndesign@y...> wrote:
>
> > I filled it with water and emptied that out several times and
then, at arm's
> > length, applied the torch. A WHUMP and blue flames jetting from the
> > holes/leaks. This continued for the next several minutes while I
tried to
> > get enough new metal and brazing rod on the tank to seal the leaks.
>
> BAd Idea, A friend once tried to repair a gas tank for his antique
motorcycle, he filled it
> with water and tried to braze the holes, the hospital bills we far
more expensive than the
> cost of finding a new tank.
>
> Regards
> Phil
> I filled it with water and emptied that out several times and then, at arm'sBAd Idea, A friend once tried to repair a gas tank for his antique motorcycle, he filled it
> length, applied the torch. A WHUMP and blue flames jetting from the
> holes/leaks. This continued for the next several minutes while I tried to
> get enough new metal and brazing rod on the tank to seal the leaks.
with water and tried to braze the holes, the hospital bills we far more expensive than the
cost of finding a new tank.
Regards
Phil
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Jc whitney sells an epoxy kit that you mix and pour into the tank and
slosh around until it gets hard Works well on my 300 utility tractor.
Wewally
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
That has also been done in the 30 footer!
This seems to be scaled up with the same relative proportions, which
of course increase the displacement a lot. What is interesting is
that it has almost the same size engine. Both boats are designed to
have the engine running all the time same as the fishing boat, but
perhaps at little more than idle. With the muffler system described
for the fishing boat, it would be equivalent to having a genset
running, and with an inverter could give you 120 VAC power if you
wanted.
Two separate cabins, basically the same as the 46' Breakdown
Schooner. Nice center cockpit with room for a gazebo and BBQ:-)
Could be used as a Mom and Pop distributor of "B.C. Bud" up and down
the Left Coast from Vancouver to Juneau AK:-)
Cheers,
Nels (Recalling the recent $5 mil bust on Seymour Arm that put a dent
in a few M&P businesses.)
wrote:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/MS%20Cargo%20Boat/
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
>
> I'm often exasperated by the "nice boat, but let's change...."
> comments that pop up here all the time, but in this case, I'm going
> to do it myself. What if we remove the sloop rig and fit her out as
> a gaff cat. We might have to move the head a little aft, but
> otherwise I don't see a problem.
>
> Peter (currently in the midst of a catboat obsession)
That has also been done in the 30 footer!
This seems to be scaled up with the same relative proportions, which
of course increase the displacement a lot. What is interesting is
that it has almost the same size engine. Both boats are designed to
have the engine running all the time same as the fishing boat, but
perhaps at little more than idle. With the muffler system described
for the fishing boat, it would be equivalent to having a genset
running, and with an inverter could give you 120 VAC power if you
wanted.
Two separate cabins, basically the same as the 46' Breakdown
Schooner. Nice center cockpit with room for a gazebo and BBQ:-)
Could be used as a Mom and Pop distributor of "B.C. Bud" up and down
the Left Coast from Vancouver to Juneau AK:-)
Cheers,
Nels (Recalling the recent $5 mil bust on Seymour Arm that put a dent
in a few M&P businesses.)
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/I'm often exasperated by the "nice boat, but let's change...."
comments that pop up here all the time, but in this case, I'm going
to do it myself. What if we remove the sloop rig and fit her out as
a gaff cat. We might have to move the head a little aft, but
otherwise I don't see a problem.
Peter (currently in the midst of a catboat obsession)
I had two different experiences with cars that developed leaks and in
both cases I crawled under and rubbed a bar of soap against the leak
until it stopped. My car was sold a few years later and in both cases
neither I or the other guy who I had helped had ever done any other
work on the tank.
Last time it happened, the tank was poly and it made it leak worse.
$425 for new tank. 1996 Pontiac TransSport.
Nels
both cases I crawled under and rubbed a bar of soap against the leak
until it stopped. My car was sold a few years later and in both cases
neither I or the other guy who I had helped had ever done any other
work on the tank.
Last time it happened, the tank was poly and it made it leak worse.
$425 for new tank. 1996 Pontiac TransSport.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "chodges31711" <chodges@a...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
> > I have been hearing for years that one shouldn't try to braze or
> weld a gas
> > tank.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Already been done. Notice the displacement is the very same.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
Of course we would have to ask Susanne to "Navigatorize" it for us,
and then ignore the update:-)
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>stick
> Bruce,
> That is a really sharp little workboat. Wonder if bolger could
> a rig on it like the 30 foot cargo motorsailer. Looks to be of theJason,
> same basic principle.
>
Already been done. Notice the displacement is the very same.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
Of course we would have to ask Susanne to "Navigatorize" it for us,
and then ignore the update:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
flamable gas (nitrogen, CO2, etc.) Some people purge with diesel
exhaust. The purge does not have to be 100%. You have to get the O2
level outside the ignition range.
You can also blow it with a shop vac for a while to dilute (purge)
the fuel vapor % level below the ignition range. Keep ventilating
while you weld.
Gasoline, for example, has an explosive range between 1.4% and 7.6%.
This indicates that any concentration of gasoline vapor in air
between these percentage limits will ignite at any temperature
above -45F (flash point) when an ignition source provides a contact
temperature in the range of 500 to 800 F (ignition temperature,
depending on type of gasoline).
I have welded on in-service diesel tanks - below the liquid level.
Theoretically one could do this with gasoline but I would not.
Charles
> I have been hearing for years that one shouldn't try to braze orweld a gas
> tank. When my lawn tiller's tank rusted to a sieve, I decided tofind out
> how much truth was in this.The way to repair gas tanks is to purge the oxygen with some non-
>
> I filled it with water and emptied that out several times and
flamable gas (nitrogen, CO2, etc.) Some people purge with diesel
exhaust. The purge does not have to be 100%. You have to get the O2
level outside the ignition range.
You can also blow it with a shop vac for a while to dilute (purge)
the fuel vapor % level below the ignition range. Keep ventilating
while you weld.
Gasoline, for example, has an explosive range between 1.4% and 7.6%.
This indicates that any concentration of gasoline vapor in air
between these percentage limits will ignite at any temperature
above -45F (flash point) when an ignition source provides a contact
temperature in the range of 500 to 800 F (ignition temperature,
depending on type of gasoline).
I have welded on in-service diesel tanks - below the liquid level.
Theoretically one could do this with gasoline but I would not.
Charles
Bruce,
That is a really sharp little workboat. Wonder if bolger could stick
a rig on it like the 30 foot cargo motorsailer. Looks to be of the
same basic principle.
I've done some metal work and my grandfather used to own a truckbody
shop that built box and reefer bodies for straght trucks.
The CNC plama machines are amazing but it can take along time and a
good bit of knowledge to get all the data into a cutting file to run
the machine, could be real expensive for a one time run. If a couple
of people were interested and could share the cost of the cutting
file it would be the way to go.
Being that bolger said most of the cuts would be 90 degrees it could
be done in a couple of days by hand. Steel is loud and messy to work
with but can be welded easily by anyone with a few hours of practice.
Aluminum can be shaped and cut with most wood working tools but is
tough to weld well. I either get poor penitration or warp the plate
trying to get deep. However, the new GMAW(?) machines are suposed to
be much more user friendly.
Jason
That is a really sharp little workboat. Wonder if bolger could stick
a rig on it like the 30 foot cargo motorsailer. Looks to be of the
same basic principle.
I've done some metal work and my grandfather used to own a truckbody
shop that built box and reefer bodies for straght trucks.
The CNC plama machines are amazing but it can take along time and a
good bit of knowledge to get all the data into a cutting file to run
the machine, could be real expensive for a one time run. If a couple
of people were interested and could share the cost of the cutting
file it would be the way to go.
Being that bolger said most of the cuts would be 90 degrees it could
be done in a couple of days by hand. Steel is loud and messy to work
with but can be welded easily by anyone with a few hours of practice.
Aluminum can be shaped and cut with most wood working tools but is
tough to weld well. I either get poor penitration or warp the plate
trying to get deep. However, the new GMAW(?) machines are suposed to
be much more user friendly.
Jason
I have been studying the PB&F steel boats
and am becoming more and more impressed
at the concept.
In this day and age of computer numeric controlled cutting,
the prospect of assembling a hull from 10 gauge
sheet metal precut pieces seems faster and stronger [better]
than plywood.
Many of us are familiar with the Miniature Steel Tug
in BWOAM, and with Col. H.G. Hassler. There is also
another lesser know boat in this series, Abbondanza #652.
http://hallman.org/bolger/652/
I am writing this post, mostly because I am curious if
anybody 'round here has experience with the waterjet
or plasma cutting shops, tips, tricks, preferences etc..
of how best to deal with these shops.
and am becoming more and more impressed
at the concept.
In this day and age of computer numeric controlled cutting,
the prospect of assembling a hull from 10 gauge
sheet metal precut pieces seems faster and stronger [better]
than plywood.
Many of us are familiar with the Miniature Steel Tug
in BWOAM, and with Col. H.G. Hassler. There is also
another lesser know boat in this series, Abbondanza #652.
http://hallman.org/bolger/652/
I am writing this post, mostly because I am curious if
anybody 'round here has experience with the waterjet
or plasma cutting shops, tips, tricks, preferences etc..
of how best to deal with these shops.
Roger, et al,
There is a way to braze/weld a gas (petrol) tank which leaks. I have done
it several times on old motorbike tanks.
Run a large bore hosepipe from the exhaust of a petrol (gas) engined car,
into the tank which needs repair. Run the engine for half an hour, and
after this you can plunge a lighted welding torch into the tank with no
harm.
All the other reported ways, such as filling the tank with water or sand,
do not work.
Alvan.
There is a way to braze/weld a gas (petrol) tank which leaks. I have done
it several times on old motorbike tanks.
Run a large bore hosepipe from the exhaust of a petrol (gas) engined car,
into the tank which needs repair. Run the engine for half an hour, and
after this you can plunge a lighted welding torch into the tank with no
harm.
All the other reported ways, such as filling the tank with water or sand,
do not work.
Alvan.
I have been hearing for years that one shouldn't try to braze or weld a gas
tank. When my lawn tiller's tank rusted to a sieve, I decided to find out
how much truth was in this.
I filled it with water and emptied that out several times and then, at arm's
length, applied the torch. A WHUMP and blue flames jetting from the
holes/leaks. This continued for the next several minutes while I tried to
get enough new metal and brazing rod on the tank to seal the leaks. I'm
guessing that the rust held enough gas to fuel the fire, despite the water
rinses. (No, it still didn't hold gasoline, and epoxy was similarly
unsuccessful.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
tank. When my lawn tiller's tank rusted to a sieve, I decided to find out
how much truth was in this.
I filled it with water and emptied that out several times and then, at arm's
length, applied the torch. A WHUMP and blue flames jetting from the
holes/leaks. This continued for the next several minutes while I tried to
get enough new metal and brazing rod on the tank to seal the leaks. I'm
guessing that the rust held enough gas to fuel the fire, despite the water
rinses. (No, it still didn't hold gasoline, and epoxy was similarly
unsuccessful.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed d vaitones" <vaitonestrack@...>
> Which reminds me of a story I read in a book about precicion,
> or lack thereof, in languages, while doing a linguistics course.
> The scene: open 55 gallon drums that had gas in them.
> The question: Anything in these drums?
> Answer: No (after all, the gas had been poured out)
> I can't remeber the details from here, but the upshot was, someone
> lit a match, since the drums were"empty".
>
> And....
There is nothing special about bits for plastic except that they have what is
called a negative rake. Anyone who has a grinder and has learned how to
re-sharpen their drill bits can do this. You are also better off drilling
non-Ferris metals such as brass, bronze, etc., with bits sharpened with a negative
rake. Positive rake bits tend to catch as they come out the backside. With a hand
electric drill this can cause the drill to give such a wicked twist that you
can injure your wrist.
Bob
I didn't know that there were drills just for plastic, something to
think about if you are going to put in a lot of lexan like in a Navigator.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
called a negative rake. Anyone who has a grinder and has learned how to
re-sharpen their drill bits can do this. You are also better off drilling
non-Ferris metals such as brass, bronze, etc., with bits sharpened with a negative
rake. Positive rake bits tend to catch as they come out the backside. With a hand
electric drill this can cause the drill to give such a wicked twist that you
can injure your wrist.
Bob
I didn't know that there were drills just for plastic, something to
think about if you are going to put in a lot of lexan like in a Navigator.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
... although at full power it would have a lot more carbon dioxide
and a lot less oxygen than is healthy for animals.
Howard
and a lot less oxygen than is healthy for animals.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "chodges31711" <chodges@a...> wrote:
> A friend in the trucking business tells me that the new diesel
truck
> regulations in California for 2007 or some year have the air coming
> out cleaner than the air going in.
From the Multihull builders list, a web site with some quick wisdom on
plastics.
http://linear1.org/gm/archives/00000136.php
I didn't know that there were drills just for plastic, something to
think about if you are going to put in a lot of lexan like in a Navigator.
HJ
plastics.
http://linear1.org/gm/archives/00000136.php
I didn't know that there were drills just for plastic, something to
think about if you are going to put in a lot of lexan like in a Navigator.
HJ
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Joseph <david@c...> wrote:
regulations in California for 2007 or some year have the air coming
out cleaner than the air going in. The smog control devices will
actually be removing more than the diesel is producing.
Charles
> Where I live, there is a report that there will be more polutioncoming
> from small boats than automobiles in 10 years.A friend in the trucking business tells me that the new diesel truck
regulations in California for 2007 or some year have the air coming
out cleaner than the air going in. The smog control devices will
actually be removing more than the diesel is producing.
Charles
It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
That's great for a day boat when you can plug in after every outing, but no
good for cruisers. Solar is still way too expensive for its low efficiency.
Wind generators only work with a decent wind, but powerboaters love calm days.
Why bash around in 4' seas if you don't need the wind to go somewhere? The
newest hi tech systems such as Solomon's sound great, but like any new hi tech
stuff is not in the price range of anyone I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
That's great for a day boat when you can plug in after every outing, but no
good for cruisers. Solar is still way too expensive for its low efficiency.
Wind generators only work with a decent wind, but powerboaters love calm days.
Why bash around in 4' seas if you don't need the wind to go somewhere? The
newest hi tech systems such as Solomon's sound great, but like any new hi tech
stuff is not in the price range of anyone I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have used propane (LPG) both at various homes for over 30 years, and on my
boats for 20 years. There is one really good way to stay safe. The tank, of
course, is in a compartment vapor proof to the inside of the boat, and vented
at the bottom to the outside. The valve on the tank is ALWAYS off until you
need to use the stove. Go outside, turn on the valve, go inside and do your
thing. When finished cooking, baking, whatever, leave the burner on, go outside
and turn off the valve. NO exceptions. Do it this way means there isn't any
gas in the line inside the boat as it was burned off after shutting off the
valve. Yes, I know all the marine supply place carry electric solenoid gas
shutoffs so you can just push a switch from inside. One, they are expensive.
Two, it is another unnecessary piece of equipment to malfunction. My feeling is
that if I am too lazy to go out to the cockpit to turn the valve on and off, I
am too lazy to go boating.
Regarding gasoline, I also saw demos at school when I was young. They told
us that one teacup (6oz?) sealed in a 55 gallon drum would explode with the
same force as 80 sticks of dynamite. But I am not worried. As others have
mentioned, just don't provide any way for it to leak inside the boat, and if you
ever do smell gas inside, don't do anything that could provide ignition until
you have found the source, fixed it, and ventilated.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boats for 20 years. There is one really good way to stay safe. The tank, of
course, is in a compartment vapor proof to the inside of the boat, and vented
at the bottom to the outside. The valve on the tank is ALWAYS off until you
need to use the stove. Go outside, turn on the valve, go inside and do your
thing. When finished cooking, baking, whatever, leave the burner on, go outside
and turn off the valve. NO exceptions. Do it this way means there isn't any
gas in the line inside the boat as it was burned off after shutting off the
valve. Yes, I know all the marine supply place carry electric solenoid gas
shutoffs so you can just push a switch from inside. One, they are expensive.
Two, it is another unnecessary piece of equipment to malfunction. My feeling is
that if I am too lazy to go out to the cockpit to turn the valve on and off, I
am too lazy to go boating.
Regarding gasoline, I also saw demos at school when I was young. They told
us that one teacup (6oz?) sealed in a 55 gallon drum would explode with the
same force as 80 sticks of dynamite. But I am not worried. As others have
mentioned, just don't provide any way for it to leak inside the boat, and if you
ever do smell gas inside, don't do anything that could provide ignition until
you have found the source, fixed it, and ventilated.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "chodges31711" <chodges@a...> wrote:
reliable, and provided reverse. It is also very light in
construction, no big cast iron castings, etc.
Hmmmmmmm
> The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the vertical shaft of theI had an Ariens with that transmission Charles. It was surprisingly
> engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the horizontal shaft.....
reliable, and provided reverse. It is also very light in
construction, no big cast iron castings, etc.
Hmmmmmmm
Which reminds me of a story I read in a book about precicion, or lack
thereof, in languages, while doing a linguistics course.
The scene: open 55 gallon drums that had gas in them.
The question: Anything in these drums?
Answer: No (after all, the gas had been poured out)
I can't remeber the details from here, but the upshot was, someone lit a
match, since the drums were"empty".
And....
ed
________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
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thereof, in languages, while doing a linguistics course.
The scene: open 55 gallon drums that had gas in them.
The question: Anything in these drums?
Answer: No (after all, the gas had been poured out)
I can't remeber the details from here, but the upshot was, someone lit a
match, since the drums were"empty".
And....
ed
________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
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That says to me that the cars are clean enough.
Roger (bulk of diatribe deleted)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Roger (bulk of diatribe deleted)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joseph" <david@...>
> Where I live, there is a report that there will be more polution
> coming from small boats than automobiles in 10 years.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
That's why in my original post I spoke of puting the engine in the
stern, and running a shaft fwd to pickup a conventional prop shaft log.
The benefits are that one could open up the stern area for lots of air
flow, perhaps even allowing it to flood. The shaft can go fwd through
a bulkhead which would form the water tight transom. There are
several reasons to not want a lawnmower engine in the middle of the boat.
I'm sensitive to wanting as much contiguous people space as possible.
Also, a lawn mower carb can be a bit drippy, and I want my exhaust
run as short as possible.
It was Jeff's Sneakeasy w' the Kawasaki inboard that got me thinking
about this. Jeff got a super buy on the Kawasaki, and it is an
excellent engine, water cooled but closed circuit with an integral
radiator.
But some might want to use a 10-16-20hp out of a lawn tractor. In my
opinion, with some thought to address the problems, they can.
wrote:
>Yep
> The main problem is that gasoline vapour is heavier than air.....
That's why in my original post I spoke of puting the engine in the
stern, and running a shaft fwd to pickup a conventional prop shaft log.
The benefits are that one could open up the stern area for lots of air
flow, perhaps even allowing it to flood. The shaft can go fwd through
a bulkhead which would form the water tight transom. There are
several reasons to not want a lawnmower engine in the middle of the boat.
I'm sensitive to wanting as much contiguous people space as possible.
Also, a lawn mower carb can be a bit drippy, and I want my exhaust
run as short as possible.
It was Jeff's Sneakeasy w' the Kawasaki inboard that got me thinking
about this. Jeff got a super buy on the Kawasaki, and it is an
excellent engine, water cooled but closed circuit with an integral
radiator.
But some might want to use a 10-16-20hp out of a lawn tractor. In my
opinion, with some thought to address the problems, they can.
> Major problem here is what happens when the wind diesYou wait, as sailors have done for generations. What, exactly, is the
> and you are 25 miles from port?
big problem? You won't be home for dinner? You'll be late for work?
Peter
Where I live, there is a report that there will be more polution coming
from small boats than automobiles in 10 years. If you are talking
about the engine that gets the sailboat from the dock to where it can
sail, in many areas solar battery charging is an option. Also where I
live, most electricity is hydro.
Major problem here is what happens when the wind dies and you are 25
miles from port?
David
Harry James wrote:
from small boats than automobiles in 10 years. If you are talking
about the engine that gets the sailboat from the dock to where it can
sail, in many areas solar battery charging is an option. Also where I
live, most electricity is hydro.
Major problem here is what happens when the wind dies and you are 25
miles from port?
David
Harry James wrote:
> In less you are talking about hydro or solar as the source of[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> electricity all you are doing is moving the site where the crap goes
> into the air.
>
> HJ
>
> David Joseph wrote:
>
> >It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
> >that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
> >electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
> >efficient electric motors available.
> >Anyone playing with electric power?
> >
> >David
> >
> >chodges31711 wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
> >>>scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
> >>>engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
> >>>truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the vertical shaft of the
> >>engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the horizontal shaft.
> >>They are held tegether by springs. The clutch pulls the wheel away
> >>from the disk. Sliding the wheel toward the perimeter of the disk
> >>increases the speed of the horiz. shaft. Sliding it to the opposite
> >>side of the vertical shaft gives reverse. It is an infinitely
> >>variable transmission with full speed and gear range in either
> >>direction Same trans. as an antique Oldsmobile (1903 I think).
> >>
> >>Charles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Bolger rules!!!
> >>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> >>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> >>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> >>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> >>Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
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> >.
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>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
In less you are talking about hydro or solar as the source of
electricity all you are doing is moving the site where the crap goes
into the air.
HJ
David Joseph wrote:
electricity all you are doing is moving the site where the crap goes
into the air.
HJ
David Joseph wrote:
>It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
>that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
>electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
>efficient electric motors available.
>Anyone playing with electric power?
>
>David
>
>chodges31711 wrote:
>
>
>
>>>With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
>>>scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
>>>engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
>>>truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
>>>
>>>
>>The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the vertical shaft of the
>>engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the horizontal shaft.
>>They are held tegether by springs. The clutch pulls the wheel away
>>from the disk. Sliding the wheel toward the perimeter of the disk
>>increases the speed of the horiz. shaft. Sliding it to the opposite
>>side of the vertical shaft gives reverse. It is an infinitely
>>variable transmission with full speed and gear range in either
>>direction Same trans. as an antique Oldsmobile (1903 I think).
>>
>>Charles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bolger rules!!!
>>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
>>Fax: (978) 282-1349
>>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
>>click here
>><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129uip1hr/M=315388.5500238.6578046.3001176/D=groups/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1098132107/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https://www.orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>>
>> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>
>> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Correction - the URL below should readhttp://northweststeamsociety.org
Ron
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Fossum
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Inboard from Lawn & Garden sources
Battery weight and how to charge it -- bahhhhh!
If you're into building your own plant, try a steam powered outboard fueled by wood. It's light enough that one person can put it on the transom, uses a renewable energy source, omits very little in noxious fumes (much less than EPA standards), and - because it's a monotube type construction - there is NO danger from explosion. And since most electric power worldwide is generated by steam, you're just saving a step.
A couple of hobby steamboats using this motor may be found athttp://www.northwesteamsociety.org> "boats &c" > "boats" > "boats s-z". Scroll down until you come to "Sprite" and "Steamed Seagull". Another Member has taken a Catalina 22 and is building a steam outboard to mount on Mythical (her name) 's transom. He'll be firing with wood pellets. There'll be a page on her shortly in the "boats &c" area. And yet another is using a 15' 9" catamaran hull which he has powered with a steam outboard he built (he started the project 2 years ago at age 17) - checkout No Rush in the same "boats &c" area. The NWSS has been doing this stuff for over 15 years. I'm planing on building a Chebacco hull and powering it with steam.
Ron Fossum, NWSS Webmaster
----- Original Message -----
From: David Joseph
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Inboard from Lawn & Garden sources
It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
David
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Battery weight and how to charge it -- bahhhhh!
If you're into building your own plant, try a steam powered outboard fueled by wood. It's light enough that one person can put it on the transom, uses a renewable energy source, omits very little in noxious fumes (much less than EPA standards), and - because it's a monotube type construction - there is NO danger from explosion. And since most electric power worldwide is generated by steam, you're just saving a step.
A couple of hobby steamboats using this motor may be found athttp://www.northwesteamsociety.org> "boats &c" > "boats" > "boats s-z". Scroll down until you come to "Sprite" and "Steamed Seagull". Another Member has taken a Catalina 22 and is building a steam outboard to mount on Mythical (her name) 's transom. He'll be firing with wood pellets. There'll be a page on her shortly in the "boats &c" area. And yet another is using a 15' 9" catamaran hull which he has powered with a steam outboard he built (he started the project 2 years ago at age 17) - checkout No Rush in the same "boats &c" area. The NWSS has been doing this stuff for over 15 years. I'm planing on building a Chebacco hull and powering it with steam.
Ron Fossum, NWSS Webmaster
If you're into building your own plant, try a steam powered outboard fueled by wood. It's light enough that one person can put it on the transom, uses a renewable energy source, omits very little in noxious fumes (much less than EPA standards), and - because it's a monotube type construction - there is NO danger from explosion. And since most electric power worldwide is generated by steam, you're just saving a step.
A couple of hobby steamboats using this motor may be found athttp://www.northwesteamsociety.org> "boats &c" > "boats" > "boats s-z". Scroll down until you come to "Sprite" and "Steamed Seagull". Another Member has taken a Catalina 22 and is building a steam outboard to mount on Mythical (her name) 's transom. He'll be firing with wood pellets. There'll be a page on her shortly in the "boats &c" area. And yet another is using a 15' 9" catamaran hull which he has powered with a steam outboard he built (he started the project 2 years ago at age 17) - checkout No Rush in the same "boats &c" area. The NWSS has been doing this stuff for over 15 years. I'm planing on building a Chebacco hull and powering it with steam.
Ron Fossum, NWSS Webmaster
----- Original Message -----
From: David Joseph
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Inboard from Lawn & Garden sources
It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
David
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
With gasoline it's usually an exposion rather than a fire. Maybe they
happen so often the media don't bother reporting them any more.
Howard
happen so often the media don't bother reporting them any more.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires
It seems so counterproductive to be talking of putting a gasoline engine
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
David
chodges31711 wrote:
that belches crap into the air. How about a discussion about low cost
electric power. There are some really beautiful small powerful
efficient electric motors available.
Anyone playing with electric power?
David
chodges31711 wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
> > scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
> > engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
> > truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
>
> The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the vertical shaft of the
> engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the horizontal shaft.
> They are held tegether by springs. The clutch pulls the wheel away
> from the disk. Sliding the wheel toward the perimeter of the disk
> increases the speed of the horiz. shaft. Sliding it to the opposite
> side of the vertical shaft gives reverse. It is an infinitely
> variable transmission with full speed and gear range in either
> direction Same trans. as an antique Oldsmobile (1903 I think).
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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>The Snapper lawn mower has a flat disk on the vertical shaft of the
> With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
> scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
> engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
> truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
engine and a sliding rubber rimmed wheel on the horizontal shaft.
They are held tegether by springs. The clutch pulls the wheel away
from the disk. Sliding the wheel toward the perimeter of the disk
increases the speed of the horiz. shaft. Sliding it to the opposite
side of the vertical shaft gives reverse. It is an infinitely
variable transmission with full speed and gear range in either
direction Same trans. as an antique Oldsmobile (1903 I think).
Charles
Yes-
Fun can be had with exploding vapor and even water vapor will burn in the presents of an open flame---- i once saw two men thrown across a river in Alaska when they where welding on a diesel tank---- watch words---ventilate and be careful-j
pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
There is an interesting statistic that something like a quart of
gasolene, dispersed in optimum ratio with air, has the explosive
power of a stick of dynamite.
Bang!
I remember an Army training video which demonstrated how, over
standing gasolene, the bottom layer is too starved of oxygen for
ignition, while some distance above there isn't enough gas for
ignition. In the middle, Puff!
Propane is heavier than air, but not very much. Still, there could be
a boat-exploding hazard if a large tank leaked. I'm not sure how much
hazard could be built up from a small camp stove if it was kept
outboard when not actually in use. Butane is lighter than air, IIRC.
Alcohol has the merit that an alcohol fire can be put out with water.
Unfortunatley, an alcohol flame is not very hot. Practical Sailor
tested one small alcohol stove that was actully unable to bring a
quart of water to a boil.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fun can be had with exploding vapor and even water vapor will burn in the presents of an open flame---- i once saw two men thrown across a river in Alaska when they where welding on a diesel tank---- watch words---ventilate and be careful-j
pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
There is an interesting statistic that something like a quart of
gasolene, dispersed in optimum ratio with air, has the explosive
power of a stick of dynamite.
Bang!
I remember an Army training video which demonstrated how, over
standing gasolene, the bottom layer is too starved of oxygen for
ignition, while some distance above there isn't enough gas for
ignition. In the middle, Puff!
Propane is heavier than air, but not very much. Still, there could be
a boat-exploding hazard if a large tank leaked. I'm not sure how much
hazard could be built up from a small camp stove if it was kept
outboard when not actually in use. Butane is lighter than air, IIRC.
Alcohol has the merit that an alcohol fire can be put out with water.
Unfortunatley, an alcohol flame is not very hot. Practical Sailor
tested one small alcohol stove that was actully unable to bring a
quart of water to a boil.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is an interesting statistic that something like a quart of
gasolene, dispersed in optimum ratio with air, has the explosive
power of a stick of dynamite.
Bang!
I remember an Army training video which demonstrated how, over
standing gasolene, the bottom layer is too starved of oxygen for
ignition, while some distance above there isn't enough gas for
ignition. In the middle, Puff!
Propane is heavier than air, but not very much. Still, there could be
a boat-exploding hazard if a large tank leaked. I'm not sure how much
hazard could be built up from a small camp stove if it was kept
outboard when not actually in use. Butane is lighter than air, IIRC.
Alcohol has the merit that an alcohol fire can be put out with water.
Unfortunatley, an alcohol flame is not very hot. Practical Sailor
tested one small alcohol stove that was actully unable to bring a
quart of water to a boil.
Peter
gasolene, dispersed in optimum ratio with air, has the explosive
power of a stick of dynamite.
Bang!
I remember an Army training video which demonstrated how, over
standing gasolene, the bottom layer is too starved of oxygen for
ignition, while some distance above there isn't enough gas for
ignition. In the middle, Puff!
Propane is heavier than air, but not very much. Still, there could be
a boat-exploding hazard if a large tank leaked. I'm not sure how much
hazard could be built up from a small camp stove if it was kept
outboard when not actually in use. Butane is lighter than air, IIRC.
Alcohol has the merit that an alcohol fire can be put out with water.
Unfortunatley, an alcohol flame is not very hot. Practical Sailor
tested one small alcohol stove that was actully unable to bring a
quart of water to a boil.
Peter
Years ago I attended a basic Fire Fighting class when I signed
up to be a volunteer. One of the demonstrations was gasoline
vapors where they back lit a white sheet and from behind the
sheet they poured gasoline from one container to another. You
could literally see the vapors drifting upwards while pouring
but soon it settled out of the air and drifted down to the
table top. The point was to show that gasoline and other gases
like propane can collect on the floor and literally fill a room
with vapors before reaching an ignition source like a light
switch.
That was proof to me that gasoline vapors ultimately settle to
the lowest level such as a bilge and will not dissolve away.
This is also why the regulations dictate that the blower
exhaust must exit at the bottom of the engine compartment to
ventilate gasoline vapors where they collect.
Jeff
up to be a volunteer. One of the demonstrations was gasoline
vapors where they back lit a white sheet and from behind the
sheet they poured gasoline from one container to another. You
could literally see the vapors drifting upwards while pouring
but soon it settled out of the air and drifted down to the
table top. The point was to show that gasoline and other gases
like propane can collect on the floor and literally fill a room
with vapors before reaching an ignition source like a light
switch.
That was proof to me that gasoline vapors ultimately settle to
the lowest level such as a bilge and will not dissolve away.
This is also why the regulations dictate that the blower
exhaust must exit at the bottom of the engine compartment to
ventilate gasoline vapors where they collect.
Jeff
>------~->
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
> <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>>
>> The main problem is that gasoline vapour is heavier than
>> air. Most wheeled vehicles allow plenty of opportunity for
>> liquid or
> vapourized
>> fuel to drain away, but in a boat it tends to accumulate in
>> the bilge, waiting for a spark (don't starter motors have
>> brushes that can produce sparks?) or a backfire.
>
> I know that gasoline vapour is lighter than air since I can
> actually see the vapour rising off open gasoline. It goes
> straight up and
> disperses.
>
> Gasoline vapours tend to accumulate in the bilge because
> spilled
> gasoline collects in the bilges and the vapour has nowhere
> to escape if enclosed. Liquid gas is heavier than air but
> lighter that water. Spilled gasoline is what causes most
> fires not a properly installed engine.
>
> There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires
> there are outboards and lawn mowers that catch fire. Almost
> always from
> improper handling of the liquid gasoline.
>
> That is my observation based on my own experience and also
> having driven hundreds of thousands of miles in gasoline,
> diesel and propane powered vehicles. Now propane is a
> different matter. Many underground parking garages will not
> allow propane powered vehicles because
> escaping propane is heavier than air.
>
> Cheers, Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> horses - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts - Pls add your comments at the TOP,
> SIGN your posts, and snip away - Plans: Mr. Philip C.
> Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> 282-1349 - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
Ya got to rethink that, Nels - Here's what they say on the Chevron page:
http://www.albina.com/Fuel/ChevronRUGasMSDS.htm
Material Safety Data Sheet
SECTION 1 PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATION
CHEVRON REGULAR UNLEADED GASOLINE
(snip)
"Gasolines are highly volatile and can produce significant
concentrations of vapor at ambient temperatures. Gasoline vapor is
heavier than air and at high concentrations may accumulate in confined
spaces to present both safety and heath hazards."
A low concentration of gasoline vapor is nearly invisible. So what are
the vapors you see rising? Maybe highly concentrated vapor. Because
gasoline vapor is gaseous, a very tiny breeze can disperse it up as well
as down. Don't be fooled by that. It is still heavier than air.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nels [mailto:arvent@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:31
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Inboard from Lawn & Garden sources
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
see the vapour rising off open gasoline. It goes straight up and
disperses.
Gasoline vapours tend to accumulate in the bilge because spilled
gasoline collects in the bilges and the vapour has nowhere to escape
if enclosed. Liquid gas is heavier than air but lighter that water.
Spilled gasoline is what causes most fires not a properly installed
engine.
There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires there are
outboards and lawn mowers that catch fire. Almost always from
improper handling of the liquid gasoline.
That is my observation based on my own experience and also having
driven hundreds of thousands of miles in gasoline, diesel and propane
powered vehicles. Now propane is a different matter. Many underground
parking garages will not allow propane powered vehicles because
escaping propane is heavier than air.
Cheers, Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.albina.com/Fuel/ChevronRUGasMSDS.htm
Material Safety Data Sheet
SECTION 1 PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATION
CHEVRON REGULAR UNLEADED GASOLINE
(snip)
"Gasolines are highly volatile and can produce significant
concentrations of vapor at ambient temperatures. Gasoline vapor is
heavier than air and at high concentrations may accumulate in confined
spaces to present both safety and heath hazards."
A low concentration of gasoline vapor is nearly invisible. So what are
the vapors you see rising? Maybe highly concentrated vapor. Because
gasoline vapor is gaseous, a very tiny breeze can disperse it up as well
as down. Don't be fooled by that. It is still heavier than air.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nels [mailto:arvent@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:31
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Inboard from Lawn & Garden sources
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>vapourized
> The main problem is that gasoline vapour is heavier than air. Most
> wheeled vehicles allow plenty of opportunity for liquid or
> fuel to drain away, but in a boat it tends to accumulate in theI know that gasoline vapour is lighter than air since I can actually
> bilge, waiting for a spark (don't starter motors have brushes that
> can produce sparks?) or a backfire.
see the vapour rising off open gasoline. It goes straight up and
disperses.
Gasoline vapours tend to accumulate in the bilge because spilled
gasoline collects in the bilges and the vapour has nowhere to escape
if enclosed. Liquid gas is heavier than air but lighter that water.
Spilled gasoline is what causes most fires not a properly installed
engine.
There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires there are
outboards and lawn mowers that catch fire. Almost always from
improper handling of the liquid gasoline.
That is my observation based on my own experience and also having
driven hundreds of thousands of miles in gasoline, diesel and propane
powered vehicles. Now propane is a different matter. Many underground
parking garages will not allow propane powered vehicles because
escaping propane is heavier than air.
Cheers, Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
see the vapour rising off open gasoline. It goes straight up and
disperses.
Gasoline vapours tend to accumulate in the bilge because spilled
gasoline collects in the bilges and the vapour has nowhere to escape
if enclosed. Liquid gas is heavier than air but lighter that water.
Spilled gasoline is what causes most fires not a properly installed
engine.
There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires there are
outboards and lawn mowers that catch fire. Almost always from
improper handling of the liquid gasoline.
That is my observation based on my own experience and also having
driven hundreds of thousands of miles in gasoline, diesel and propane
powered vehicles. Now propane is a different matter. Many underground
parking garages will not allow propane powered vehicles because
escaping propane is heavier than air.
Cheers, Nels
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>vapourized
> The main problem is that gasoline vapour is heavier than air. Most
> wheeled vehicles allow plenty of opportunity for liquid or
> fuel to drain away, but in a boat it tends to accumulate in theI know that gasoline vapour is lighter than air since I can actually
> bilge, waiting for a spark (don't starter motors have brushes that
> can produce sparks?) or a backfire.
see the vapour rising off open gasoline. It goes straight up and
disperses.
Gasoline vapours tend to accumulate in the bilge because spilled
gasoline collects in the bilges and the vapour has nowhere to escape
if enclosed. Liquid gas is heavier than air but lighter that water.
Spilled gasoline is what causes most fires not a properly installed
engine.
There are thousands of inboard engines and very few fires there are
outboards and lawn mowers that catch fire. Almost always from
improper handling of the liquid gasoline.
That is my observation based on my own experience and also having
driven hundreds of thousands of miles in gasoline, diesel and propane
powered vehicles. Now propane is a different matter. Many underground
parking garages will not allow propane powered vehicles because
escaping propane is heavier than air.
Cheers, Nels
The main problem is that gasoline vapour is heavier than air. Most
wheeled vehicles allow plenty of opportunity for liquid or vapourized
fuel to drain away, but in a boat it tends to accumulate in the
bilge, waiting for a spark (don't starter motors have brushes that
can produce sparks?) or a backfire.
The vapour can come out the top of a fuel tank, from a flooded
carburettor, or from a loose joint or a crack in a fuel line.
All these things can be taken care of, but first one needs to be
aware of the risk and then know how to deal with it.
An outboard engine is inherently safer because fuel or vapour should
drain overboard, and because it's been designed and built, not by
amateurs, but by experts who are afraid of lawsuits and negative
publicity. There is still the risk from the fuel tank and lines, but
this can be minimized by putting these in a well. That's one reason
why Bolger likes these free-draining wells.
Howard
wheeled vehicles allow plenty of opportunity for liquid or vapourized
fuel to drain away, but in a boat it tends to accumulate in the
bilge, waiting for a spark (don't starter motors have brushes that
can produce sparks?) or a backfire.
The vapour can come out the top of a fuel tank, from a flooded
carburettor, or from a loose joint or a crack in a fuel line.
All these things can be taken care of, but first one needs to be
aware of the risk and then know how to deal with it.
An outboard engine is inherently safer because fuel or vapour should
drain overboard, and because it's been designed and built, not by
amateurs, but by experts who are afraid of lawsuits and negative
publicity. There is still the risk from the fuel tank and lines, but
this can be minimized by putting these in a well. That's one reason
why Bolger likes these free-draining wells.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> Where is all this gasoline vapour supposedly coming from? Would it
> tend to collect in the bilge? Isn't it lighter than air?
> Where is all this gasoline vapour supposedly coming from? Would itNo. The weight of a gas depends on the atomic weights of the atoms of
> tend to collect in the bilge? Isn't it lighter than air?
each molecule. To be lighter than air, this means lighter than O2 and
Co2 and N2. Gasolene has 8 or more carbon atoms ("octane") plus a
host of hydrogen.
Water, incidently, is lighter than air, in the vapor phase. Home runs
go farther thru the light air on a high humidity night, unless the
humidity is so high is starts collecting in liquid droplets as rain,
fog, or dew on the ball.
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
tend to collect in the bilge? Isn't it lighter than air?
I would think the best ventilation would be to have the engine out in
the open in the air flow and have the fuel in separated comparment
from the batteries - which should in turn be vented upwards properly.
If you look at most tractors, that is how it is done.
Also - on larger tractors - some of those cabs look like they might
make good doghouses:-)
Cheers, Nels
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> Am I correct that one reason for mounting the engine on awatertight
> deck would be to prevent fuel vapour from getting into the bilge --a
> serious risk with a gasoline engine?Where is all this gasoline vapour supposedly coming from? Would it
tend to collect in the bilge? Isn't it lighter than air?
I would think the best ventilation would be to have the engine out in
the open in the air flow and have the fuel in separated comparment
from the batteries - which should in turn be vented upwards properly.
If you look at most tractors, that is how it is done.
Also - on larger tractors - some of those cabs look like they might
make good doghouses:-)
Cheers, Nels
When I was a boy, all the Italian fisherman's boats had 1 lung B&S
motors. They were about 18ft classic carvel open double enders, and
fished in Cook's Straight, notoriously rugged waters. You could hear
the aircooled engines from quite some distance away. They parked on
the open beach with just a wood box over the motor. In those days
you could expect the boat and motor still to be there the next day.
Also they came back with heaps of big fish.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
motors. They were about 18ft classic carvel open double enders, and
fished in Cook's Straight, notoriously rugged waters. You could hear
the aircooled engines from quite some distance away. They parked on
the open beach with just a wood box over the motor. In those days
you could expect the boat and motor still to be there the next day.
Also they came back with heaps of big fish.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
>It
> I spent some time messing with my 1978 Gilson L&G tractor today.
> has a single cylinder Briggs & Stratton 16 hp engine that stillruns
> great after all these years.or
>
> It occured to me it would sit nicely in the stern of a Sneakeasy,
> an Idaho with the output shaft facing fwd. A simple universaljoint
> already present in the tractor could convey the power 5-6' fwd toa a
> pulley supported by a single bearing block. Immediately below it apulley.
> short shaft supported by 2 bearing blocks would have a similar
> An overlong v belt would go around the 2 pulleys with an idler onan
> arm controlled by the pilot would act as a clutch, and the whole 2then
> pully assembly would serve as a V drive. on the end of the short
> lower shaft would be a CV joint from a small front wheel drive
> automobile that would connect to the propeller shaft which would
> pierce the hull in a conventional manner. If an extra large orsizes to
> severely pitch prop were used, the pulleys could be different
> provide some "gearing".Mounting
>
> The B&S could have a simple sound proofed housing over it, and the
> exhaust piped over the transom, with little back pressure.
> it at the transom gets it out of the way.use a
>
> No reverse in this scheme, but couldn't an Idaho or a Sneakeasy
> trolling motor on the bow for close maneuvering, and reverse? Asan
> alternative, I could consider a way to mount the tractor's gearboxspiders,
> under the engine, with the differential locked by welding the
> and driving just one of the wheel hubs.
>
> Many B&S engines are available from 10-18 hp for very few $$s.
>
> When it goes bad, you can find another, for very few $$s
One of the bearings, with its mount, will have to be able to take the
thrust of the prop.
Am I correct that one reason for mounting the engine on a watertight
deck would be to prevent fuel vapour from getting into the bilge -- a
serious risk with a gasoline engine?
For me, avoiding that risk is a good reason to have an outboard
engine. The cost difference between a used outboard and a used
inboard might not be all that different, once you take into account
all the extra gear required to make the inboard useful: exhaust
system, power train, engine cooling, fuel supply, steering gear etc.
If it's be air-cooled, it will be much noisier than an outboard, and
right in the middle of the boat.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>
thrust of the prop.
Am I correct that one reason for mounting the engine on a watertight
deck would be to prevent fuel vapour from getting into the bilge -- a
serious risk with a gasoline engine?
For me, avoiding that risk is a good reason to have an outboard
engine. The cost difference between a used outboard and a used
inboard might not be all that different, once you take into account
all the extra gear required to make the inboard useful: exhaust
system, power train, engine cooling, fuel supply, steering gear etc.
If it's be air-cooled, it will be much noisier than an outboard, and
right in the middle of the boat.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>
> The prop shaft would need bearings,
> Good word picture. I can visualize it easily. I would guess theYes, exactly. Elegantly simple, actually. The note on the
> stern end of the cutwater would be pointy like the minature steel tug
> in BWAOM. The prop would be well protected.
cartoon reads: "P.C.B. after S.A."
The prop shaft would need bearings, but that doesn't
seem that unusual. I bet that the Chapelle _Boatbuilding_
book would have all the details of how to build that.
> ...practical and inexpensive...Yes, the writeup in MAIB says as much, describing 'a fleet'
as being imaginable.
FWIW, the sides of the hull are verticla, kind of like a
Clam Skiff, with a small anchor/chain box in the bow.
Could one make a "jet drive" shroud and impeller from epoxy & fiberglass or
???
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
???
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
<snip>
> With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
> scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
> engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
> truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
> PB&F started a design very similar to your idea, calledGood word picture. I can visualize it easily. I would guess the
> "Bonefish concept". The hull was similar to a Hawkeye,
> and the Briggs & Straton type motor was mounted at the
> level of the watertight deck.......
stern end of the cutwater would be pointy like the minature steel tug
in BWAOM. The prop would be well protected.
Used engines of 10hp and less like this can be easily found for $50.
With some thought, I should be able to dream up a vertical shaft
scheme that would provide cheap access to thousands of inexpensive
engines. Perhaps a practical and inexpensive outboard that would be
truely homebuildable w' a minimum of welding, or no welding at all.
> donschultz8275 wrote:PB&F started a design very similar to your idea, called
> Many B&S engines are available from 10-18 hp for very few $$s.
"Bonefish concept". The hull was similar to a Hawkeye,
and the Briggs & Straton type motor was mounted at the
level of the watertight deck, with a pulley on the horizontal
shaft engine. The drive shaft with the propeller was directly
below, in the box cutwater. A fishing boat, so you could
sit on the motor box, and the center console also had a
seating height compartment underneath it, with a Portapotty
nestled below at the level of the bottom of the cutwater.
The deck was wide open, walk around, for fishing. They
also used a trolling motor, presumably for trolling and for
a source of reverse power. A small hard rain shelter roof over
the stand up consol and the seating box.
I spent some time messing with my 1978 Gilson L&G tractor today. It
has a single cylinder Briggs & Stratton 16 hp engine that still runs
great after all these years.
It occured to me it would sit nicely in the stern of a Sneakeasy, or
an Idaho with the output shaft facing fwd. A simple universal joint
already present in the tractor could convey the power 5-6' fwd to a a
pulley supported by a single bearing block. Immediately below it a
short shaft supported by 2 bearing blocks would have a similar pulley.
An overlong v belt would go around the 2 pulleys with an idler on an
arm controlled by the pilot would act as a clutch, and the whole 2
pully assembly would serve as a V drive. on the end of the short
lower shaft would be a CV joint from a small front wheel drive
automobile that would connect to the propeller shaft which would then
pierce the hull in a conventional manner. If an extra large or
severely pitch prop were used, the pulleys could be different sizes to
provide some "gearing".
The B&S could have a simple sound proofed housing over it, and the
exhaust piped over the transom, with little back pressure. Mounting
it at the transom gets it out of the way.
No reverse in this scheme, but couldn't an Idaho or a Sneakeasy use a
trolling motor on the bow for close maneuvering, and reverse? As an
alternative, I could consider a way to mount the tractor's gearbox
under the engine, with the differential locked by welding the spiders,
and driving just one of the wheel hubs.
Many B&S engines are available from 10-18 hp for very few $$s.
When it goes bad, you can find another, for very few $$s
has a single cylinder Briggs & Stratton 16 hp engine that still runs
great after all these years.
It occured to me it would sit nicely in the stern of a Sneakeasy, or
an Idaho with the output shaft facing fwd. A simple universal joint
already present in the tractor could convey the power 5-6' fwd to a a
pulley supported by a single bearing block. Immediately below it a
short shaft supported by 2 bearing blocks would have a similar pulley.
An overlong v belt would go around the 2 pulleys with an idler on an
arm controlled by the pilot would act as a clutch, and the whole 2
pully assembly would serve as a V drive. on the end of the short
lower shaft would be a CV joint from a small front wheel drive
automobile that would connect to the propeller shaft which would then
pierce the hull in a conventional manner. If an extra large or
severely pitch prop were used, the pulleys could be different sizes to
provide some "gearing".
The B&S could have a simple sound proofed housing over it, and the
exhaust piped over the transom, with little back pressure. Mounting
it at the transom gets it out of the way.
No reverse in this scheme, but couldn't an Idaho or a Sneakeasy use a
trolling motor on the bow for close maneuvering, and reverse? As an
alternative, I could consider a way to mount the tractor's gearbox
under the engine, with the differential locked by welding the spiders,
and driving just one of the wheel hubs.
Many B&S engines are available from 10-18 hp for very few $$s.
When it goes bad, you can find another, for very few $$s