Re: [bolger] Jochems, was: black skimmer info?
I thought Jochems was a Black Skimmer hull with the added topsides ?
Rick
Rick
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seem
> > comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
> > cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
> >
> > Peter
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
that is not the way I have heard it from people who have watched her
sail past with all sails set. Quite breath taking was one comment I
recall.
Nor my impression from the gorgeous photo I saw in the WB article
about WDJ. I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. I have some
photos around someplace taken of Saphire by a friend in Norway.
Cheers, Nels
>> I'd say rather that she's a weird quirky art chick with chunkymadly
> rectangular glasses who looks homely the first time you meet her,
> until she takes off her glasses or you catch her face at the right
> angle and realise that she's gorgeous. And then you either fall
> in love with her, or decide that you can't stand her. Or both.I wonder if any of the critics have actually seen the boat? Because
>
>
that is not the way I have heard it from people who have watched her
sail past with all sails set. Quite breath taking was one comment I
recall.
Nor my impression from the gorgeous photo I saw in the WB article
about WDJ. I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. I have some
photos around someplace taken of Saphire by a friend in Norway.
Cheers, Nels
On Saturday 23 October 2004 11:00 pm, Susan Davis wrote:
projects than others but they are all comparable along
some dimensions. So with boats. Not that the ladies liked
the comparison.
BTW, while I like your description the animal in me agrees
with Harry James. Why should something ugly, or only beautiful
with great effort, be a "bigger project" ?
So it goes,
boblq "beautiful is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone."
> -- Sue --Oh, I dunno. In my life some women have been much bigger
> (seriously, though, I don't think it's fair to compare the two boats,
> since the WDJ is a much bigger project than the Black Skimmer)
projects than others but they are all comparable along
some dimensions. So with boats. Not that the ladies liked
the comparison.
BTW, while I like your description the animal in me agrees
with Harry James. Why should something ugly, or only beautiful
with great effort, be a "bigger project" ?
So it goes,
boblq "beautiful is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone."
> Even if you drink a lot and squint you can't getI'd say rather that she's a weird quirky art chick with chunky
> around the fact that the Black Skimmer is a world class beauty
> while the WDJ is just a rather plain girl next door with a
> nice personality.
rectangular glasses who looks homely the first time you meet her,
until she takes off her glasses or you catch her face at the right
angle and realise that she's gorgeous. And then you either fall madly
in love with her, or decide that you can't stand her. Or both.
Oh, and her big sister is a supermodel. :-)
-- Sue --
(seriously, though, I don't think it's fair to compare the two boats,
since the WDJ is a much bigger project than the Black Skimmer)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Hi Jim,
I have built WDJ #2. The prototype, Sapphire, comissioned and built by
Judge Jochems, sails in Frisco Bay (AFAIK). I'll be happy to give you
more info if you are interested:bharbo@....
Bjorn Harbo
Oslo, Norway
I have built WDJ #2. The prototype, Sapphire, comissioned and built by
Judge Jochems, sails in Frisco Bay (AFAIK). I'll be happy to give you
more info if you are interested:bharbo@....
Bjorn Harbo
Oslo, Norway
On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 05:33:00PM -0000, Jim wrote:
>
>
>
> I went lookning for info on Jochems whatever. The file folder is
> empty. Is there some other info/drawings lying around?
>
> Jim
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
> >
> ...
> >
> > I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seem
> > comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
> > cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
> >
> > Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Herb Payson will support with advice, I got my Black Skimmer plans from
him. He always ships plans really fast.
As for the discussion on the relative merits of the Black Skimmer and
the Jochems, Even if you drink a lot and squint you can't get around the
fact that the Black Skimmer is a world class beauty while the WDJ is
just a rather plain girl next door with a nice personality.
HJ
bcd5194 wrote:
him. He always ships plans really fast.
As for the discussion on the relative merits of the Black Skimmer and
the Jochems, Even if you drink a lot and squint you can't get around the
fact that the Black Skimmer is a world class beauty while the WDJ is
just a rather plain girl next door with a nice personality.
HJ
bcd5194 wrote:
>Hi all, wondering if anyone can give me current price for Black
>Skimmer plans from Bolger & Friends. Looked at Payson, price is
>right, but this would be first "big boat" project, figure I need all
>the help I can get! would rather get the plans from the source.
>Decided to check the forum before I wrote to him, just to save
>one "cycle" of mail, if someone knows current prices, much
>appreciated. Thanks, Brad.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
> Jochems: One (at least) has been built.Two built and one under construction, according to PCB&F in the
lastest MAIB.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
has been built.
There are photos of Bjorn Harbo's Esmeralda(?) in the photo section
here - if it works. In a folder entitled Bjorn's WDJ.
Cheers, Nels
> Jochems' hull is very like that of Black Skimmer (length, beam etc)but it has a 'glasshouse' top and gaff-schooner rig. One (at least)
has been built.
There are photos of Bjorn Harbo's Esmeralda(?) in the photo section
here - if it works. In a folder entitled Bjorn's WDJ.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
have to say before embarking on such a project.
From what I have been lead to understand, the WDJ is not exactly a
slouch in the sailing department. Most people are quite surprised
including the designers. Rigging it to get underway is a matter of a
few minutes for two people. This includes raising the masts.
Almost every facet of WDJ's design is an improvement on Black
Skimmer, from the sailplan to the leeboards to the stability curve.
PCB when looking at BS found that it was easier to begin with a clean
sheet than try to update the existing plans - which by the way are
not nearly as detailed as later boats. (This design is more than 35
years old now!) The 34 foot mast is the biggest challenge, and the
leeboards are not state-of the art. Then the cabin is quite cramped
and it needs considerable internal ballast to off-set that high mast.
More than orignally called for I believe.
If one is never going to trailer their boat, or go under low bridges
then it is a possible choice.
Just my thoughts... Nels
wrote:
> I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seemPersonally I would tend to listen to what the master (and mistress:-)
> comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
> cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
>
> Peter
have to say before embarking on such a project.
From what I have been lead to understand, the WDJ is not exactly a
slouch in the sailing department. Most people are quite surprised
including the designers. Rigging it to get underway is a matter of a
few minutes for two people. This includes raising the masts.
Almost every facet of WDJ's design is an improvement on Black
Skimmer, from the sailplan to the leeboards to the stability curve.
PCB when looking at BS found that it was easier to begin with a clean
sheet than try to update the existing plans - which by the way are
not nearly as detailed as later boats. (This design is more than 35
years old now!) The 34 foot mast is the biggest challenge, and the
leeboards are not state-of the art. Then the cabin is quite cramped
and it needs considerable internal ballast to off-set that high mast.
More than orignally called for I believe.
If one is never going to trailer their boat, or go under low bridges
then it is a possible choice.
Just my thoughts... Nels
Jochems' hull is very like that of Black Skimmer (length, beam etc) but it has a 'glasshouse' top and gaff-schooner rig. One (at least) has been built. The sides have a bit of flair - not vertical like those of Martha Jane. It's also a more recent design than MJ or Skilligallee. It uses leeboards (surprise!).
Susanne made a lovely video of Jochems #1 sailing in Lake Mead.
Bill
PS BS's plans are available from Harold Payson www.instantboats.com at the bargain price of $40.
Susanne made a lovely video of Jochems #1 sailing in Lake Mead.
Bill
PS BS's plans are available from Harold Payson www.instantboats.com at the bargain price of $40.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 6:33 PM
Subject: [bolger] Jochems, was: black skimmer info?
I went lookning for info on Jochems whatever. The file folder is
empty. Is there some other info/drawings lying around?
Jim
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
>
...
>
> I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seem
> comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
> cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
>
> Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Is there some other info/drawings lying around?http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/jochems.htm
I went lookning for info on Jochems whatever. The file folder is
empty. Is there some other info/drawings lying around?
Jim
empty. Is there some other info/drawings lying around?
Jim
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
>
...
>
> I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seem
> comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
> cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
>
> Peter
> To my eye at least, Black Skimmer is theAnd Skillygallee is a 'new and improved' Black Skimmer. Martha Jane
> Bolger 'new and improved' answer to Pointer.
could be called that to, but .... not by me.
I can see the point of suggesting the Jochems, but it does not seem
comparable. Most builders interested in Skimmer are not going for
cruising capability - they want a roadster not a camper.
Peter
> Black SkimmerTo my eye at least, Black Skimmer is the
Bolger 'new and improved' answer to Pointer.
Pointer was Phil Bolger's personal boat for many
years [the '60's +/-?], and was very much formative
to his concepts about sailing sharpies. Black
Skimmer followed, and benifited from what he
learned with Pointer I think.
No doubt, Black Skimmer, is one of Phil Bolger's
'signature' boat designs IMO.
Spoke to PCB a while ago about Black Skimmer, and he reckoned that W J Jochems was its successor and he would steer potential builders in that direction.
The reason it came up was that Iain Oughtred listed his top ten designs of all time and BS featured well up that list.
Ironic, or what?
My personal opinion (based on gut reaction) is that BS is an amazingly elegant boat, dare I say much more so than Jochems, though it may in fact be less practical in terms of points on the Birdwatcher scale. So - for a boat to get people going "WOW! That's cool!" I'd go for BS. OTOH Jochems is much closer to being a practical liveaboard for long trips.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The reason it came up was that Iain Oughtred listed his top ten designs of all time and BS featured well up that list.
Ironic, or what?
My personal opinion (based on gut reaction) is that BS is an amazingly elegant boat, dare I say much more so than Jochems, though it may in fact be less practical in terms of points on the Birdwatcher scale. So - for a boat to get people going "WOW! That's cool!" I'd go for BS. OTOH Jochems is much closer to being a practical liveaboard for long trips.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Decided to check the forum before I wrote to him, just to saveChances are you could use eFax to chop the cycle in two. By-the-way,
> > one "cycle" of mail, if someone knows current prices, much
> > appreciated.
used Skimmers are for sale from time to time. I saw one advertised
fairly recently. Condition will vary from perfection to rot, of
course, but the price will probably not be more than cost of
materials for a new one.
Black Skimmer is one of Bolger's most extreme designs in terms of
getting a lot from a little. There is hardly a single piece of wood
in her that doesn't serve at least two functions, and altogether, I
would say she is simpler than the most likely alternative, Martha
Jane. Still, there are some challenging aspects, such as keeping the
shape while bending the chine pieces to the necessary curve.
Are you thinking of the original rig with its tall mast, or the
revised lug rig with the smaller mast? (This option is probably one
reason to go directly to PCB for plans.)
Peter
$40 from Payson at
http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html
http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bcd5194" <reenbrad@b...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, wondering if anyone can give me current price for Black
> Skimmer plans from Bolger & Friends. Looked at Payson, price is
> right, but this would be first "big boat" project, figure I need
all
> the help I can get! would rather get the plans from the source.
> Decided to check the forum before I wrote to him, just to save
> one "cycle" of mail, if someone knows current prices, much
> appreciated. Thanks, Brad.
Hi all, wondering if anyone can give me current price for Black
Skimmer plans from Bolger & Friends. Looked at Payson, price is
right, but this would be first "big boat" project, figure I need all
the help I can get! would rather get the plans from the source.
Decided to check the forum before I wrote to him, just to save
one "cycle" of mail, if someone knows current prices, much
appreciated. Thanks, Brad.
Skimmer plans from Bolger & Friends. Looked at Payson, price is
right, but this would be first "big boat" project, figure I need all
the help I can get! would rather get the plans from the source.
Decided to check the forum before I wrote to him, just to save
one "cycle" of mail, if someone knows current prices, much
appreciated. Thanks, Brad.