Re: Another Shearwater?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
finished product. I have always been attracted to the design as it
has a lot of interior space to sleep four adults. Imagined myself
using it on the big rivers and canal systems.
I think the major drawbacks are first the huge leeboards, that
develop lee helm when partially raised. This was improved in the
double pivoting boards in the WJS. Whalewatcher uses a bow
daggerboard which is a sort of "make do" complication. Secondly, it
will probably pound a lot, especially when motoring which one would
need to be able to do in rivers and canals. I wonder how it would
work with a box cutwater like Super Brick and a off-center board like
Birdwatcher?
My first choice now would be BWll(Birdwatcher II) for a couple and
WJS (William Jochems Schooner.) for four people. Either choice is far
more somplicated than Whalewatcher but would give better all around
performance I would guess.
Birdwatcher is PCB's favorite all-time design which is really saying
something!
Cheers, Nels
>There was one built somewhere in California but I never saw the
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pvanderwaart
> Or maybe a Whalewatcher? Have any of those ever been launched?
>
> Bill
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
finished product. I have always been attracted to the design as it
has a lot of interior space to sleep four adults. Imagined myself
using it on the big rivers and canal systems.
I think the major drawbacks are first the huge leeboards, that
develop lee helm when partially raised. This was improved in the
double pivoting boards in the WJS. Whalewatcher uses a bow
daggerboard which is a sort of "make do" complication. Secondly, it
will probably pound a lot, especially when motoring which one would
need to be able to do in rivers and canals. I wonder how it would
work with a box cutwater like Super Brick and a off-center board like
Birdwatcher?
My first choice now would be BWll(Birdwatcher II) for a couple and
WJS (William Jochems Schooner.) for four people. Either choice is far
more somplicated than Whalewatcher but would give better all around
performance I would guess.
Birdwatcher is PCB's favorite all-time design which is really saying
something!
Cheers, Nels
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
>> I owned Shearwater # 12 from 87 to 91. It is now in the midwest and
>> cruised Lake Superior, written up in Sailing last summer.
> I'm pretty sure that PCB would recommend the Jochems Schooner as a
> homebuild for this market niche.
Or maybe a Whalewatcher? Have any of those ever been launched?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I owned Shearwater # 12 from 87 to 91. It is now in the midwest andI'm pretty sure that PCB would recommend the Jochems Schooner as a
> cruised Lake Superior, written up in Sailing last summer.
homebuild for this market niche.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
cruised Lake Superior, written up in Sailing last summer.
I think they built less than 20. it got too expensive. #1 was for
Peter Duff to replace his beloved Dovkie, and he and we too cruised by
road and water all over the eastern half of NA.
It was 28 plus feet long, 6.5 foot beam and did hull speed of 7 kn.
with 10 horsepower at half throttle. A bit sluggish in light air. Mine
had 600 lb of internal lead ballast. Draft with boards and rudder up
was 7 inches.
Air draft was the big problem ie 4+foot headroom vs. mine of 6 foot 2
meant sore knees. But it sure trailed and launched well. I sold it to
a fellow in IL and took a Dovkie in trade which I sold a couple of
years later.
Mike
wrote:
>I owned Shearwater # 12 from 87 to 91. It is now in the midwest and
> While hunting around for something on Blackgauntlet, I came across an
> article at:
>
>http://www.shallowwatersailor.us/edad.pdf
>
> Dovekie is a well-known Bolger design but what about the Shearwater
> featured in that article? It's a larger, transom-sterned version of
> Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no mention
> of Bolger at all.
cruised Lake Superior, written up in Sailing last summer.
I think they built less than 20. it got too expensive. #1 was for
Peter Duff to replace his beloved Dovkie, and he and we too cruised by
road and water all over the eastern half of NA.
It was 28 plus feet long, 6.5 foot beam and did hull speed of 7 kn.
with 10 horsepower at half throttle. A bit sluggish in light air. Mine
had 600 lb of internal lead ballast. Draft with boards and rudder up
was 7 inches.
Air draft was the big problem ie 4+foot headroom vs. mine of 6 foot 2
meant sore knees. But it sure trailed and launched well. I sold it to
a fellow in IL and took a Dovkie in trade which I sold a couple of
years later.
Mike
Blackgauntlet is very similar in appearance and concept to Black
Skimmer, just a lot bigger. The rig is different, neither the main or
the mizzen are sprit rigs, and she sports a jib. Still got the looks
however!
The plans and building key are complete enough so that you could build
one easily from what is in Folding Schooner (Chapter 12) . Fairly large
project.
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
Skimmer, just a lot bigger. The rig is different, neither the main or
the mizzen are sprit rigs, and she sports a jib. Still got the looks
however!
The plans and building key are complete enough so that you could build
one easily from what is in Folding Schooner (Chapter 12) . Fairly large
project.
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
>Hope Bruce or Nels won't mind me making a (partial) reply.
>Check the database re Blackgauntlet II. The original Bg was designed
>for Peter Duff, of Dovekie fame. V.II seems to be much the same. It's
>a big plywood sharpie. Folding Schooner reproduces what looks like a
>complete set of plans plus lines and offsets for a round-bilged
>version.
>
>Howard
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
>
>>Bruce,
>>
>>Do you have any information on a boat I believe is called Black
>>Gauntlet?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
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>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Howard,
Thanks for bringing our attention to the "Slicer" article from Duckworks.
This is a Bolger boat that I keep looking at and want to build. Weather conditions here in Tasmania seem to be getting very windy, especially during the pleasant boating season( Warm weather) though its possible to boat all year round. The point I'm getting at with all this windy weather is that it gets quite unpleasant here with frequent choppy conditions of about 1'-2' as a rule during the afternoons from mid spring thru summer to about mid autumn. on occassions it gets worse with 3'-4' chop, which is not too good to be out in at speed!!.
At present I've got a 15' Diablo, which is OK(I mean very good) in smooth water and small chop, but at speed, like 15+ knots, the ride, especially for the passenger/s becomes unbearable after a small amount of time when the conditions get really choppy. With a "Slicer" ( I think of her as a stretched out Diablo, though the bottom shape is different, the bow profile is similar) I'm sure she'd handle the usual summer choppy conditions with ease. The speed's about what I hoped for, that is 15 Knots with a 15 HP 4 stroke Outboard. It makes this boat more desirable know I know a few more details other than what Bolger wrote in BWAOM.
Hugo Tyson, .... Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
Slicer, a 29'0" x 5'2" open Bolger powerboat, designed for a small
outboard, features in BWAOM. If you go to
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/
and click on the "New" link you will see a link to an article by
Robert A. Musch on this design, excerpted from Messing About in
Boats. As it discusses experience with boats built to the design,
it's a useful update to the BWAOM chapter.
Howard
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for bringing our attention to the "Slicer" article from Duckworks.
This is a Bolger boat that I keep looking at and want to build. Weather conditions here in Tasmania seem to be getting very windy, especially during the pleasant boating season( Warm weather) though its possible to boat all year round. The point I'm getting at with all this windy weather is that it gets quite unpleasant here with frequent choppy conditions of about 1'-2' as a rule during the afternoons from mid spring thru summer to about mid autumn. on occassions it gets worse with 3'-4' chop, which is not too good to be out in at speed!!.
At present I've got a 15' Diablo, which is OK(I mean very good) in smooth water and small chop, but at speed, like 15+ knots, the ride, especially for the passenger/s becomes unbearable after a small amount of time when the conditions get really choppy. With a "Slicer" ( I think of her as a stretched out Diablo, though the bottom shape is different, the bow profile is similar) I'm sure she'd handle the usual summer choppy conditions with ease. The speed's about what I hoped for, that is 15 Knots with a 15 HP 4 stroke Outboard. It makes this boat more desirable know I know a few more details other than what Bolger wrote in BWAOM.
Hugo Tyson, .... Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
Slicer, a 29'0" x 5'2" open Bolger powerboat, designed for a small
outboard, features in BWAOM. If you go to
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/
and click on the "New" link you will see a link to an article by
Robert A. Musch on this design, excerpted from Messing About in
Boats. As it discusses experience with boats built to the design,
it's a useful update to the BWAOM chapter.
Howard
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Slicer, a 29'0" x 5'2" open Bolger powerboat, designed for a small
outboard, features in BWAOM. If you go to
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/
and click on the "New" link you will see a link to an article by
Robert A. Musch on this design, excerpted from Messing About in
Boats. As it discusses experience with boats built to the design,
it's a useful update to the BWAOM chapter.
Howard
outboard, features in BWAOM. If you go to
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/
and click on the "New" link you will see a link to an article by
Robert A. Musch on this design, excerpted from Messing About in
Boats. As it discusses experience with boats built to the design,
it's a useful update to the BWAOM chapter.
Howard
The online Yellow Pages come up with all kinds of unlikely places
e.g. Key Largo Anglers Club Beauty Shop, but no KLSWC.
Howard
e.g. Key Largo Anglers Club Beauty Shop, but no KLSWC.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Bolton" <davebolton@e...> wrote:
> I was under the impression that Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises is no
> longer in business.
Bruce,
Thanks for providing that link and for hosting the page!
I was under the impression that Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises is no
longer in business. Perhaps someone else on the list with better local
knowledge could let me know if this is true or not. They used to have
ads in SBJ. All I do know is that on my last visit to the keys (3-5
years ago), I saw a couple of rotting hulls sitting by the road (US1)
near Islamorada - one was a Micro and the other was a Black Skimmer.
Dave
Thanks for providing that link and for hosting the page!
I was under the impression that Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises is no
longer in business. Perhaps someone else on the list with better local
knowledge could let me know if this is true or not. They used to have
ads in SBJ. All I do know is that on my last visit to the keys (3-5
years ago), I saw a couple of rotting hulls sitting by the road (US1)
near Islamorada - one was a Micro and the other was a Black Skimmer.
Dave
>Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:29:24 -0800
> From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
>Subject: Re: Black Skimmer again
>
> Joe Nelson wrote:
> Anyway I have not seem much info or pictures on the net for the BS.
>
>There is the great article from Small Boat Journal,
>reprinted here:
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
It is a scanned image so the text search doesn't work. Don't feel bad,
I've done that myself.
I've done that myself.
> Well, I searched the article (using the .pdf search facility)
> on "Bolger". It came up with 0 hits; so something went wrong.
> Supposedly they turned out to be extraordinarily fast.Hype.
I was on a Shearwater at a Small Boat Show in Newport, RI, way back
when. It was a design that appealed to me for a lot of reasons, but
it was never a fit to my needs. It was one of the first production
boats to come out with water ballast. The interior is quite low, but
as I remember, it was comfortable to sit in. I never got to sail one,
but there was a long article about a sail test by Roger Taylor in SBJ.
The Edy & Duff quality of build is quite high, so the boats are
probably still in good condition if they have been treated well. I
think I read recently that the number built was in the 20's.
As for the speed, an inside ballasted boat is never going to
be "extrordinarily fast" as compared to a keel boat, at least upwind.
Bolger does have a good record for boats with downwind speed, though,
and if there is enough wind I bet she slides along faster than a
regular cruiser of the same length (becaues she is lighter).
Peter
Yes. Dugong, 26' x 5'4", appears in the "Cruising Canoe" chapter of
Different Boats. By the time it got to Bernie Wolfard's catalog the
first one had been built and dubbed Dugong. It was designed for
someone who liked Dovekie but wanted "something with a little more
open-water security"; although "she was never intended for serious
sea cruising -- only for hops from island to island." Leeboards, four-
sided sprit-boomed cat-rig.
Howard
Different Boats. By the time it got to Bernie Wolfard's catalog the
first one had been built and dubbed Dugong. It was designed for
someone who liked Dovekie but wanted "something with a little more
open-water security"; although "she was never intended for serious
sea cruising -- only for hops from island to island." Leeboards, four-
sided sprit-boomed cat-rig.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> Another boat of similar design, was the first Bolger boat I ever
saw
> written about in SBJ. It was called "Dugong" and was a big cold-
> molded sailing canoe and was built and beach cruised by Ida Little
> and Michael Walsh. It created a lot of excitement at the time
amongst canoeists and beach bums alike, of which I was both.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
page five it states:
"Thus the principle task Phil Bolger set out for himself, when he
spread a clean sheet of paper on his drawing board to design what was
to become Dovekie, was to produce a practical cruising sailboat for
two that would function without an engine."
This is a very interesting write-up on the two designs and of
historic signifigance in my view. It makes some interesting points
about a small centerboard in the bows, the properties of leeboards
and the advantages of the sprit rig and "snotter" - which were all
not widely known about at that time. Also greeted with much
skepticism is the idea of an unballested flat-bottomed hull being
capable of sailing to weather.
Another boat of similar design, was the first Bolger boat I ever saw
written about in SBJ. It was called "Dugong" and was a big cold-
molded sailing canoe and was built and beach cruised by Ida Little
and Michael Walsh. It created a lot of excitement at the time amongst
canoeists and beach bums alike, of which I was both.
Thanks Howard for the information and also thanks to Paul for the
connections between Centennial II and Birdwatcher. Now we have
Birdwatcher II which PCB&F have declared to be off-shore capable.
Interesting to note that it has the about the same sail area at 221
sq ft as Shearwater!
Cheers, Nels
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>If you are talking about the article you posted a link to Howard, on
> Well, I searched the article (using the .pdf search facility)
> on "Bolger". It came up with 0 hits; so something went wrong.
>
> Howard
>
page five it states:
"Thus the principle task Phil Bolger set out for himself, when he
spread a clean sheet of paper on his drawing board to design what was
to become Dovekie, was to produce a practical cruising sailboat for
two that would function without an engine."
This is a very interesting write-up on the two designs and of
historic signifigance in my view. It makes some interesting points
about a small centerboard in the bows, the properties of leeboards
and the advantages of the sprit rig and "snotter" - which were all
not widely known about at that time. Also greeted with much
skepticism is the idea of an unballested flat-bottomed hull being
capable of sailing to weather.
Another boat of similar design, was the first Bolger boat I ever saw
written about in SBJ. It was called "Dugong" and was a big cold-
molded sailing canoe and was built and beach cruised by Ida Little
and Michael Walsh. It created a lot of excitement at the time amongst
canoeists and beach bums alike, of which I was both.
Thanks Howard for the information and also thanks to Paul for the
connections between Centennial II and Birdwatcher. Now we have
Birdwatcher II which PCB&F have declared to be off-shore capable.
Interesting to note that it has the about the same sail area at 221
sq ft as Shearwater!
Cheers, Nels
Well, I searched the article (using the .pdf search facility)
on "Bolger". It came up with 0 hits; so something went wrong.
Howard
on "Bolger". It came up with 0 hits; so something went wrong.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <kayaker37@h...> wrote:
>
>
> On page 9, right column, in the paragraph starting with "Shearwater
is
> too big to be rowed" it says: "Therefore we asked Phil Bolger to
> design her with a transom stern"
>
> > Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no
mention
> > of Bolger at all.
On page 9, right column, in the paragraph starting with "Shearwater is
too big to be rowed" it says: "Therefore we asked Phil Bolger to
design her with a transom stern"
too big to be rowed" it says: "Therefore we asked Phil Bolger to
design her with a transom stern"
> Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no mention
> of Bolger at all.
Shearwater was designed by PCB and several were built by Edey and Duff as large shallow water cruisers. Supposedly they turned out to be extraordinarily fast. Every now and again you will see one for sale, but they are too big for me to trailer, launch, or singlehand. Younger, stronger folks probably would not have my reservations.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Stephenson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: [bolger] Another Shearwater?
While hunting around for something on Blackgauntlet, I came across an
article at:
http://www.shallowwatersailor.us/edad.pdf
Dovekie is a well-known Bolger design but what about the Shearwater
featured in that article? It's a larger, transom-sterned version of
Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no mention
of Bolger at all.
The Shearwater of Ch. 19 of Different Boats is a 40' schooner
completely unlike this "new" boat.
Howard
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
While hunting around for something on Blackgauntlet, I came across an
article at:
http://www.shallowwatersailor.us/edad.pdf
Dovekie is a well-known Bolger design but what about the Shearwater
featured in that article? It's a larger, transom-sterned version of
Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no mention
of Bolger at all.
The Shearwater of Ch. 19 of Different Boats is a 40' schooner
completely unlike this "new" boat.
Howard
article at:
http://www.shallowwatersailor.us/edad.pdf
Dovekie is a well-known Bolger design but what about the Shearwater
featured in that article? It's a larger, transom-sterned version of
Dovekie, but was it designed by PCB too? The article makes no mention
of Bolger at all.
The Shearwater of Ch. 19 of Different Boats is a 40' schooner
completely unlike this "new" boat.
Howard
Hope Bruce or Nels won't mind me making a (partial) reply.
Check the database re Blackgauntlet II. The original Bg was designed
for Peter Duff, of Dovekie fame. V.II seems to be much the same. It's
a big plywood sharpie. Folding Schooner reproduces what looks like a
complete set of plans plus lines and offsets for a round-bilged
version.
Howard
Check the database re Blackgauntlet II. The original Bg was designed
for Peter Duff, of Dovekie fame. V.II seems to be much the same. It's
a big plywood sharpie. Folding Schooner reproduces what looks like a
complete set of plans plus lines and offsets for a round-bilged
version.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Do you have any information on a boat I believe is called Black
> Gauntlet?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Do you have any information on a boat I believe is called Black
Gauntlet? I saw a boat, many years ago, before I heard of Bolger,
that I was told was one. It had quite huge leeboards. And it was
black too. Very menacing lying there in the dusk amongst the clorox
bottles, like a pirate raider with two big shields amidships.
I am sure it flew the jolly roger but perhaps only in my imagination.
It was gone early the next morning.
Thanks, Nels
> There is the great article from Small Boat Journal,Bruce,
> reprinted here:
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
Do you have any information on a boat I believe is called Black
Gauntlet? I saw a boat, many years ago, before I heard of Bolger,
that I was told was one. It had quite huge leeboards. And it was
black too. Very menacing lying there in the dusk amongst the clorox
bottles, like a pirate raider with two big shields amidships.
I am sure it flew the jolly roger but perhaps only in my imagination.
It was gone early the next morning.
Thanks, Nels
> Joe Nelson wrote:There is the great article from Small Boat Journal,
> Anyway I have not seem much info or pictures on the net for the BS.
reprinted here:
http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
PCB gives Skillygalee's displacement as 5000 lb. The link provided by
Nels indicates BS's trailer weight, including the trailer, as 2,900
lb. By simple proportion, you'd have to budget for 3,400 lb for a Sk
plus trailer. The mainmast is 35'6" long compared with BS's 34'3"; no
doubt you could use some kind of gunter rig also.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Nelson" <joe_nelson22@h...>
wrote:
Nels indicates BS's trailer weight, including the trailer, as 2,900
lb. By simple proportion, you'd have to budget for 3,400 lb for a Sk
plus trailer. The mainmast is 35'6" long compared with BS's 34'3"; no
doubt you could use some kind of gunter rig also.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Nelson" <joe_nelson22@h...>
wrote:
>the
> With the dipping lug sail (is that later modification included in
> Payson plans) the Black Skimmer would make a reasonable trailerI
> sailer. Not sure that the Skillygalee would? Not sure what the
> displacement is like? I would assume that the main mast is
> approaching 40' tall.
>
> Sounds like I am not the only one who has "issues" with leeboards.
> just have not been able to get over the aesthetics of them.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Nelson" <joe_nelson22@h...>
wrote:
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
wrote:
> The Payson plans include a separate drawing for an alternativeSolent Lug rig,
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
> With the dipping lug sail (is that later modification included inthe
> Payson plans) the Black Skimmer would make a reasonable trailerleeboards. I
> sailer. Not sure that the Skillygalee would? Not sure what the
> displacement is like? I would assume that the main mast is
> approaching 40' tall.
>
> Sounds like I am not the only one who has "issues" with
> just have not been able to get over the aesthetics of them.Skillygalee.
>
> Joe
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
> <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> >
> > If you wanted a Black Skimmer with a centreboard instead of
> > leeboards, maybe the way to go would be the 29' x 7'
> > Bolger says it's " ... a lengthened Black Skimmer. The Stretchdetailed
> allows
> > an inboard rudder with centerline mizzenmast and a centerline
> > engine..." The board is off-centre and there are numerous
> > changes.for
> >
> > Even with a centreline board, there would still be space in BS
> > someone to sleep either side of the case. Could be an advantagein
> > itself...
> >
> > Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
as well as custom trailer, can be seen here:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/bskimmer.htm
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>is
> > I hadn't heard before that Black Skimmer has a dipping lug
> alternative rig.
>
> Solent Lug, I think. (i.e. like a gunter but the heel of the yard
> not attached the mast).Some old photos and a description of the solent rig with tabernacle,
as well as custom trailer, can be seen here:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/bskimmer.htm
Cheers, Nels
Joe Nelson wrote:
aft quarter as she lay at her mooring . With the boards up in their
rests and the sun on the other side of her, I thought for a moment that
she sort of looked like a long graceful butterfly or a dragonfly with
her wings cocked up, ready to fly away.
Aesthetics?
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I remember rowing out to my Black Skimmer and coming up to her from the
>
>
> Sounds like I am not the only one who has "issues" with leeboards. I
> just have not been able to get over the aesthetics of them.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
aft quarter as she lay at her mooring . With the boards up in their
rests and the sun on the other side of her, I thought for a moment that
she sort of looked like a long graceful butterfly or a dragonfly with
her wings cocked up, ready to fly away.
Aesthetics?
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I hadn't heard before that Black Skimmer has a dipping lugalternative rig.
Solent Lug, I think. (i.e. like a gunter but the heel of the yard is
not attached the mast).
Skillygallee is not considered a trailerboat, except by experience
truckers who are novice boaters. However, non-trailerboats can be
moved by truck/trailer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4509084611
This is a collectors items, Bolger's 'Tortoise' article in
Small Boat Journal Volume #1, Issue #1.
This is a collectors items, Bolger's 'Tortoise' article in
Small Boat Journal Volume #1, Issue #1.
>Joe Nelson <joe_nelson22@...> wrote:I hadn't heard before that Black Skimmer has a dipping lug alternative rig.
> With the dipping lug sail (is that later modification included in the
> Payson plans) the Black Skimmer would make a reasonable trailer
> sailer.
Do you recall more about this? Is it a PB&F designed rig?
For a dipping lug, or a balanced lug rig, the mast would need
to be moved aft, stepping right in the middle of the bed. Care
would need to be taken to avoid wet bedding. The spritsail cat
rig, of the original has the advantage of the mast step being in
the wet flooding forward well.
With the dipping lug sail (is that later modification included in the
Payson plans) the Black Skimmer would make a reasonable trailer
sailer. Not sure that the Skillygalee would? Not sure what the
displacement is like? I would assume that the main mast is
approaching 40' tall.
Sounds like I am not the only one who has "issues" with leeboards. I
just have not been able to get over the aesthetics of them.
Joe
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
Payson plans) the Black Skimmer would make a reasonable trailer
sailer. Not sure that the Skillygalee would? Not sure what the
displacement is like? I would assume that the main mast is
approaching 40' tall.
Sounds like I am not the only one who has "issues" with leeboards. I
just have not been able to get over the aesthetics of them.
Joe
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>allows
> If you wanted a Black Skimmer with a centreboard instead of
> leeboards, maybe the way to go would be the 29' x 7' Skillygalee.
> Bolger says it's " ... a lengthened Black Skimmer. The Stretch
> an inboard rudder with centerline mizzenmast and a centerline
> engine..." The board is off-centre and there are numerous detailed
> changes.
>
> Even with a centreline board, there would still be space in BS for
> someone to sleep either side of the case. Could be an advantage in
> itself...
>
> Howard
Well, I could keep repeating the same thing again and again if that
helps......that I have sat in the cabin and the board is no problem,
DonB
helps......that I have sat in the cabin and the board is no problem,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> Is there pictures of the cabin with the centerboard. I would think that
> it would pretty well destroy what is a rather small cabin.
>
> HJ
>
> dbaldnz wrote:
>
> >Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
> >NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
> >owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
> >all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
> >having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
> >in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
> >handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
> >turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
> >beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
> >DonB
> > Two things bothered me about the
> >
> >
> >>design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one version
> >>of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was that they
> >>were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be the
> >>proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site showing a
> >>tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of the more
> >>striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that a centerboard
> >>version has been built in New Zealand,
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>John Mann (Sydney Australia)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
If you wanted a Black Skimmer with a centreboard instead of
leeboards, maybe the way to go would be the 29' x 7' Skillygalee.
Bolger says it's " ... a lengthened Black Skimmer. The Stretch allows
an inboard rudder with centerline mizzenmast and a centerline
engine..." The board is off-centre and there are numerous detailed
changes.
Even with a centreline board, there would still be space in BS for
someone to sleep either side of the case. Could be an advantage in
itself...
Howard
leeboards, maybe the way to go would be the 29' x 7' Skillygalee.
Bolger says it's " ... a lengthened Black Skimmer. The Stretch allows
an inboard rudder with centerline mizzenmast and a centerline
engine..." The board is off-centre and there are numerous detailed
changes.
Even with a centreline board, there would still be space in BS for
someone to sleep either side of the case. Could be an advantage in
itself...
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> Is there pictures of the cabin with the centerboard. I would think
that
> it would pretty well destroy what is a rather small cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
decided that Black Skimmer was the boat for me. I'm looking at the
plans now and the leeboards taper from 3' to 1' over a length of 8',
and the cabin is about 3' high at the entrance by about 7' wide at
the sheer. There seems to be plenty of room for at least a 6' by 2'
centreboard at the aft end of the cabin extending under the raised
deck. I'm not sure of all the calculations required for centre of
effort and board area etc etc but it seems very feasible without
impacting too much on the cabin and certainly not at all on the
forward double berth. I think if I ever got a sail on one of these
boats, I would just have to have one,
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
Is there pictures of the cabin with the centerboard. I would think
that
> I have not seen any pictures of the centreboard setup, but I havea set of plans thatI purchased from Payson in a rush of blood having
decided that Black Skimmer was the boat for me. I'm looking at the
plans now and the leeboards taper from 3' to 1' over a length of 8',
and the cabin is about 3' high at the entrance by about 7' wide at
the sheer. There seems to be plenty of room for at least a 6' by 2'
centreboard at the aft end of the cabin extending under the raised
deck. I'm not sure of all the calculations required for centre of
effort and board area etc etc but it seems very feasible without
impacting too much on the cabin and certainly not at all on the
forward double berth. I think if I ever got a sail on one of these
boats, I would just have to have one,
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
Is there pictures of the cabin with the centerboard. I would think
that
> it would pretty well destroy what is a rather small cabin.the
>
> HJ
>
> dbaldnz wrote:
>
> >Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of
> >NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with alater
> >owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabinat
> >all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also veryfast,
> >having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did notfit
> >in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she wasmast, a
> >handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
> >turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length
> >beautiful spar it was, but formidible.version
> >DonB
> > Two things bothered me about the
> >
> >
> >>design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one
> >>of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was thatthey
> >>were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be theshowing a
> >>proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site
> >>tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of themore
> >>striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that acenterboard
> >>version has been built in New Zealand,
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>John Mann (Sydney Australia)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
Is there pictures of the cabin with the centerboard. I would think that
it would pretty well destroy what is a rather small cabin.
HJ
dbaldnz wrote:
it would pretty well destroy what is a rather small cabin.
HJ
dbaldnz wrote:
>Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
>NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
>owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
>all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
>having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
>in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
>handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
>turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
>beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
>DonB
> Two things bothered me about the
>
>
>>design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one version
>>of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was that they
>>were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be the
>>proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site showing a
>>tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of the more
>>striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that a centerboard
>>version has been built in New Zealand,
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>John Mann (Sydney Australia)
>>
>>
>
>
Hi Karl,
The Black Skimmer was in Auckland, but was recently sold for peanuts
(what a buy!), and don't know where it is now.
The centrecase was partly in the cockpit and partly inside, with a
small lifting winch on the deck outside the companionway.
As to your doubts, I can only repeat my comments below,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Rasmussen" <karl.rasmussen@t...>
wrote:
especially to see how the centerboard was done. I have the Payson
plans for this design, but I can't see how to implement the
centreboard alteration without severe complication of a great design.
The Black Skimmer was in Auckland, but was recently sold for peanuts
(what a buy!), and don't know where it is now.
The centrecase was partly in the cockpit and partly inside, with a
small lifting winch on the deck outside the companionway.
As to your doubts, I can only repeat my comments below,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Rasmussen" <karl.rasmussen@t...>
wrote:
> Hi everyone,Skimmer. I'M in the Wellington area, and would love to see it,
> Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the NZ Black
especially to see how the centerboard was done. I have the Payson
plans for this design, but I can't see how to implement the
centreboard alteration without severe complication of a great design.
>
> Cheers, Karl Rasmussen
> Pukerua Bay, NZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@r...
> ahoo.com
> [mailto:sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@returns.
> groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of dbaldnz
> Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 9:49 p.m.
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer again
>
>
>
>
> Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
> NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
> owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
> all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
> having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
> in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
> handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
> turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
> beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
> DonB
Hi everyone,
Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the NZ Black Skimmer. I'M in the Wellington area, and would love to see it, especially to see how the centerboard was done. I have the Payson plans for this design, but I can't see how to implement the centreboard alteration without severe complication of a great design.
Cheers, Karl Rasmussen
Pukerua Bay, NZ
-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@....y
ahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@returns.
groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of dbaldnz
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 9:49 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer again
Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
DonB
Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the NZ Black Skimmer. I'M in the Wellington area, and would love to see it, especially to see how the centerboard was done. I have the Payson plans for this design, but I can't see how to implement the centreboard alteration without severe complication of a great design.
Cheers, Karl Rasmussen
Pukerua Bay, NZ
-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@....y
ahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-1194369-36809-1101977351-karl.rasmussen=tnzi.com@returns.
groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of dbaldnz
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 9:49 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer again
Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
DonB
Hi John, I have sat in the cabin and chinwagged with the owner of the
NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
DonB
Two things bothered me about the
NZ BSkimmer, Skipjack, you mention, and talked at length with a later
owner 15 years later. The centreboard was no bother in the cabin at
all, and the boat a lot neater overall for it. She was also very fast,
having been raced in a division consisting of boats that did not fit
in anywhere else. After a few races, she proved so quick she was
handicapped out of there.....with a two fingered salute the owner
turned his back on racing. This boat also had the full length mast, a
beautiful spar it was, but formidible.
DonB
Two things bothered me about the
> design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one version
> of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was that they
> were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be the
> proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site showing a
> tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of the more
> striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that a centerboard
> version has been built in New Zealand,
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Mann (Sydney Australia)
>
> I have the Payson plans, clear, simple and easy to understand.
> >
> > HJ
> >
> > Howard Stephenson wrote:
> >
> > >I suppose you've been to the Payson website at
> > >http://www.instantboats.com
> > >
> > >Payson sells the plans for $40. They might be slightly dearer or
> > >cheaper from Bolger, but there won't be much in it. You could
> always
> > >fax him and ask but why bother? Payson has set up an easy way of
> > >ordering from him.
> > >
> > >The study plan athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gif
> is
> > >a composite taken from parts of two of the four sheets of plans
> you
> > >would get from Payson. Assuming these four sheets are the same as
> > >reproduced in "The Folding Schooner", they comprise:
> > >-- sailplan plus spar and rigging details
> > >-- internal/external plan/profile plus leeboard details
> > >-- layout on plywood sheets, sections plus chine and stem details
> > >-- bulkheads, deck crown, false head
> > >
> > >The book lists a 52-point "Key to Plans". You would certainly
> want
> > >this and most likely it is what Payson refers to as
> > >the "specifications" he provides. If it's not, someone would
> surely
> > >fax you a copy from the book.
> > >
> > >As Payson says: " ... cuddy has enough area for five adults to
> sleep,
> > >but is intended to be convenient for a couple using camp-type
> > >equipment; it's dry, well ventilated, with a good view out." You
> can
> > >get a good idea of what's inside the cuddy from the study plan. A
> > >photo wouldn't help much as it's just a bare space.
> > >
> > >It is pretty, isn't it? I think leeboards look shippy, but many
> don't
> > >like them. Someone else might like to compare BS with each of the
> > >three Chebacco boats.
> > >
> > >Howard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Thanks to those who have weighed in so far. Sounds like the plans
are a real value!
The centerboard modification would be a definate aesthetic
improvement in my mind.
I think I will start a new thread to discuss the Chebacco 25
are a real value!
The centerboard modification would be a definate aesthetic
improvement in my mind.
I think I will start a new thread to discuss the Chebacco 25
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
have not built the Skimmer (probably never will) but I was really
captured by its beauty under sail that even the relatively poor
quality photos could not conceal. Two things bothered me about the
design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one version
of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was that they
were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be the
proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site showing a
tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of the more
striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that a centerboard
version has been built in New Zealand,
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
I have the Payson plans, clear, simple and easy to understand.
> I also have the Payson plans and at $40 USD they are good value.He is also willing to answer questions directly via telephone. I
have not built the Skimmer (probably never will) but I was really
captured by its beauty under sail that even the relatively poor
quality photos could not conceal. Two things bothered me about the
design and these were the leeboards and the 34' mast for one version
of the rig. My uninformed opinion re the leeboards was that they
were too much trouble to operate and the mast would be the
proverbial "bugger" to get up and down. There is one site showing a
tabernacle as the solution to this. It is though one of the more
striking of the bolger designs and I also believe that a centerboard
version has been built in New Zealand,
Cheers,
John Mann (Sydney Australia)
I have the Payson plans, clear, simple and easy to understand.
>always
> HJ
>
> Howard Stephenson wrote:
>
> >I suppose you've been to the Payson website at
> >http://www.instantboats.com
> >
> >Payson sells the plans for $40. They might be slightly dearer or
> >cheaper from Bolger, but there won't be much in it. You could
> >fax him and ask but why bother? Payson has set up an easy way ofis
> >ordering from him.
> >
> >The study plan athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gif
> >a composite taken from parts of two of the four sheets of plansyou
> >would get from Payson. Assuming these four sheets are the same aswant
> >reproduced in "The Folding Schooner", they comprise:
> >-- sailplan plus spar and rigging details
> >-- internal/external plan/profile plus leeboard details
> >-- layout on plywood sheets, sections plus chine and stem details
> >-- bulkheads, deck crown, false head
> >
> >The book lists a 52-point "Key to Plans". You would certainly
> >this and most likely it is what Payson refers to assurely
> >the "specifications" he provides. If it's not, someone would
> >fax you a copy from the book.sleep,
> >
> >As Payson says: " ... cuddy has enough area for five adults to
> >but is intended to be convenient for a couple using camp-typecan
> >equipment; it's dry, well ventilated, with a good view out." You
> >get a good idea of what's inside the cuddy from the study plan. Adon't
> >photo wouldn't help much as it's just a bare space.
> >
> >It is pretty, isn't it? I think leeboards look shippy, but many
> >like them. Someone else might like to compare BS with each of the
> >three Chebacco boats.
> >
> >Howard
> >
> >
> >
> >
I have the Payson plans, clear, simple and easy to understand.
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
>I suppose you've been to the Payson website at
>http://www.instantboats.com
>
>Payson sells the plans for $40. They might be slightly dearer or
>cheaper from Bolger, but there won't be much in it. You could always
>fax him and ask but why bother? Payson has set up an easy way of
>ordering from him.
>
>The study plan athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gifis
>a composite taken from parts of two of the four sheets of plans you
>would get from Payson. Assuming these four sheets are the same as
>reproduced in "The Folding Schooner", they comprise:
>-- sailplan plus spar and rigging details
>-- internal/external plan/profile plus leeboard details
>-- layout on plywood sheets, sections plus chine and stem details
>-- bulkheads, deck crown, false head
>
>The book lists a 52-point "Key to Plans". You would certainly want
>this and most likely it is what Payson refers to as
>the "specifications" he provides. If it's not, someone would surely
>fax you a copy from the book.
>
>As Payson says: " ... cuddy has enough area for five adults to sleep,
>but is intended to be convenient for a couple using camp-type
>equipment; it's dry, well ventilated, with a good view out." You can
>get a good idea of what's inside the cuddy from the study plan. A
>photo wouldn't help much as it's just a bare space.
>
>It is pretty, isn't it? I think leeboards look shippy, but many don't
>like them. Someone else might like to compare BS with each of the
>three Chebacco boats.
>
>Howard
>
>
>
>
I suppose you've been to the Payson website at
http://www.instantboats.com
Payson sells the plans for $40. They might be slightly dearer or
cheaper from Bolger, but there won't be much in it. You could always
fax him and ask but why bother? Payson has set up an easy way of
ordering from him.
The study plan athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gifis
a composite taken from parts of two of the four sheets of plans you
would get from Payson. Assuming these four sheets are the same as
reproduced in "The Folding Schooner", they comprise:
-- sailplan plus spar and rigging details
-- internal/external plan/profile plus leeboard details
-- layout on plywood sheets, sections plus chine and stem details
-- bulkheads, deck crown, false head
The book lists a 52-point "Key to Plans". You would certainly want
this and most likely it is what Payson refers to as
the "specifications" he provides. If it's not, someone would surely
fax you a copy from the book.
As Payson says: " ... cuddy has enough area for five adults to sleep,
but is intended to be convenient for a couple using camp-type
equipment; it's dry, well ventilated, with a good view out." You can
get a good idea of what's inside the cuddy from the study plan. A
photo wouldn't help much as it's just a bare space.
It is pretty, isn't it? I think leeboards look shippy, but many don't
like them. Someone else might like to compare BS with each of the
three Chebacco boats.
Howard
http://www.instantboats.com
Payson sells the plans for $40. They might be slightly dearer or
cheaper from Bolger, but there won't be much in it. You could always
fax him and ask but why bother? Payson has set up an easy way of
ordering from him.
The study plan athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gifis
a composite taken from parts of two of the four sheets of plans you
would get from Payson. Assuming these four sheets are the same as
reproduced in "The Folding Schooner", they comprise:
-- sailplan plus spar and rigging details
-- internal/external plan/profile plus leeboard details
-- layout on plywood sheets, sections plus chine and stem details
-- bulkheads, deck crown, false head
The book lists a 52-point "Key to Plans". You would certainly want
this and most likely it is what Payson refers to as
the "specifications" he provides. If it's not, someone would surely
fax you a copy from the book.
As Payson says: " ... cuddy has enough area for five adults to sleep,
but is intended to be convenient for a couple using camp-type
equipment; it's dry, well ventilated, with a good view out." You can
get a good idea of what's inside the cuddy from the study plan. A
photo wouldn't help much as it's just a bare space.
It is pretty, isn't it? I think leeboards look shippy, but many don't
like them. Someone else might like to compare BS with each of the
three Chebacco boats.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Nelson" <joe_nelson22@h...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am not a regular poster here. I did a search on the black
skimmer
> and saw that a recent thread never really ended in conclusion. Did
> anyone ever find out what the BS plans cost from FB&F? My thoughts
> are to consider the ones from Payson as study plans.
Hello,
I am not a regular poster here. I did a search on the black skimmer
and saw that a recent thread never really ended in conclusion. Did
anyone ever find out what the BS plans cost from FB&F? My thoughts
are to consider the ones from Payson as study plans.
I probably will meet a lot of opposition to this statement, but I
think that the BS is one of few Bolgers designs that is pretty. I
think most of his designs are an aquired taste. I also like the
Chebacco's. The 25 looks like a really nice boat. How do you think
they would compare (chebacco and black skimmer)?
Anyway I have not seem much info or pictures on the net for the BS.
Yes I have seen the Bolger boats on the net site and the one that is
available in florida as a charter boat. But no really good pictures
of interior or layout.
Your help would be appreciated.
I am not a regular poster here. I did a search on the black skimmer
and saw that a recent thread never really ended in conclusion. Did
anyone ever find out what the BS plans cost from FB&F? My thoughts
are to consider the ones from Payson as study plans.
I probably will meet a lot of opposition to this statement, but I
think that the BS is one of few Bolgers designs that is pretty. I
think most of his designs are an aquired taste. I also like the
Chebacco's. The 25 looks like a really nice boat. How do you think
they would compare (chebacco and black skimmer)?
Anyway I have not seem much info or pictures on the net for the BS.
Yes I have seen the Bolger boats on the net site and the one that is
available in florida as a charter boat. But no really good pictures
of interior or layout.
Your help would be appreciated.