Re: [bolger] Re: GNU Boats
John van V. wrote:
keeled designs aren't generally that sophisticated.
The ideas aren't protected, just the drawings (unless there is
a patent, but those are few and far between). So the data is
shared, only the lines are protected.
Remember that the cost of a boat design is only a tiny fraction
of the cost of the boat. Most people are quite happy to pay for
the design.
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I think you missed my example on twin keels.I think you are actually talking about catamarans here? Twin
keeled designs aren't generally that sophisticated.
> I think that copylefting would apply in designs that are expensive andneed
> constant improvment. Data derived from twin keel designs SHOULD beshared,
> because new designs can very likely fail for lack of it.Designers are constantly learning from each other's designs.
The ideas aren't protected, just the drawings (unless there is
a patent, but those are few and far between). So the data is
shared, only the lines are protected.
Remember that the cost of a boat design is only a tiny fraction
of the cost of the boat. Most people are quite happy to pay for
the design.
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Its interesting y'all are actually taking this seriously enough to discuss it.
I think you missed my example on twin keels.
I think that copylefting would apply in designs that are expensive and need
constant improvment. Data derived from twin keel designs SHOULD be shared,
because new designs can very likely fail for lack of it.
This wouldnt apply to instant boats.
To make this work, a seed design would have to be offered. Then, as the hull
and sail configurations change as a result of new needs, the old design could
be modifed, esp w/ CAD systems. Then, the CAD data would be posted for the
next need.
A well heeled organization would probably need to supply the seed design, or a
designer (or his/her estate), who feels altruistic enough to donate the seed.
Bluebird of Thorn might be an example, knowing that damn few of the offsets are
being sold today. But, building on it might be hugely profitable.
So far I think everybody is assuming YACHT, while I am thinking FREIGHT. This
goes back to my culture, my mentor's (Don Meisner) last design was a
trans-pacific cargo schooner which he actually got paid for. I wish I could
scan that in.
Sail freight, or fishing, needs all the help and copy lefting could initiate
new construciton. I deeply believe that commerical sail is a valuable thing.
The chesapeke oyster fleet is a perfect example, it has been successful in
preserving the stocks, and gives that part of Maryland/Deleware a cultural
icon. And of course it saves fuel, preventing global warming, lowering prices
and keeping our money here where it belongs.
John
--- Mark <marka@...> wrote:
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I think you missed my example on twin keels.
I think that copylefting would apply in designs that are expensive and need
constant improvment. Data derived from twin keel designs SHOULD be shared,
because new designs can very likely fail for lack of it.
This wouldnt apply to instant boats.
To make this work, a seed design would have to be offered. Then, as the hull
and sail configurations change as a result of new needs, the old design could
be modifed, esp w/ CAD systems. Then, the CAD data would be posted for the
next need.
A well heeled organization would probably need to supply the seed design, or a
designer (or his/her estate), who feels altruistic enough to donate the seed.
Bluebird of Thorn might be an example, knowing that damn few of the offsets are
being sold today. But, building on it might be hugely profitable.
So far I think everybody is assuming YACHT, while I am thinking FREIGHT. This
goes back to my culture, my mentor's (Don Meisner) last design was a
trans-pacific cargo schooner which he actually got paid for. I wish I could
scan that in.
Sail freight, or fishing, needs all the help and copy lefting could initiate
new construciton. I deeply believe that commerical sail is a valuable thing.
The chesapeke oyster fleet is a perfect example, it has been successful in
preserving the stocks, and gives that part of Maryland/Deleware a cultural
icon. And of course it saves fuel, preventing global warming, lowering prices
and keeping our money here where it belongs.
John
--- Mark <marka@...> wrote:
> I can't agree with this at all. In the first place, some of the quick nd=====
> dirty boats have
> sold thousands of prints. Not bad earnings for an afternoon's work.
>
> More importantly, how many times can you expect them to do the same thing
> over again?
> There's an Instant Boat for just about every need. They're all informed with
> a genius that
> makes them just about unimproveable in their class. Where improvements were
> needed, along
> they came, e.g. MJ updates or the Navigator cabins.
>
> My impression is that the 'one offs' for the well heeled are rather further
> back in the
> past as well. I60, the Def Leapard speed boat or Hasler take more time and
> have less mass
> appeal than, say, Sneakesy, yet are still completely within reach of just
> about anyone who
> wanting to prioritize them.
>
> OPINION: If you can scheme up an interesting requirement and get up on the
> list of their
> personal goals, I doubt the design fee would get in the way.
> Mark
>
>
>
> > In a way, the 'GNU' analogy explains why PB&F is not motivated
> > to design more 'Instant Boats'. They simply cannot afford to design
> > such elegantly simple boats under a GNU model. Rather, they
> > choose to design custom 'one off's' for well to do clients, that is their
> > bread and butter.
>
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I can't agree with this at all. In the first place, some of the quick nd dirty boats have
sold thousands of prints. Not bad earnings for an afternoon's work.
More importantly, how many times can you expect them to do the same thing over again?
There's an Instant Boat for just about every need. They're all informed with a genius that
makes them just about unimproveable in their class. Where improvements were needed, along
they came, e.g. MJ updates or the Navigator cabins.
My impression is that the 'one offs' for the well heeled are rather further back in the
past as well. I60, the Def Leapard speed boat or Hasler take more time and have less mass
appeal than, say, Sneakesy, yet are still completely within reach of just about anyone who
wanting to prioritize them.
OPINION: If you can scheme up an interesting requirement and get up on the list of their
personal goals, I doubt the design fee would get in the way.
Mark
sold thousands of prints. Not bad earnings for an afternoon's work.
More importantly, how many times can you expect them to do the same thing over again?
There's an Instant Boat for just about every need. They're all informed with a genius that
makes them just about unimproveable in their class. Where improvements were needed, along
they came, e.g. MJ updates or the Navigator cabins.
My impression is that the 'one offs' for the well heeled are rather further back in the
past as well. I60, the Def Leapard speed boat or Hasler take more time and have less mass
appeal than, say, Sneakesy, yet are still completely within reach of just about anyone who
wanting to prioritize them.
OPINION: If you can scheme up an interesting requirement and get up on the list of their
personal goals, I doubt the design fee would get in the way.
Mark
> In a way, the 'GNU' analogy explains why PB&F is not motivated
> to design more 'Instant Boats'. They simply cannot afford to design
> such elegantly simple boats under a GNU model. Rather, they
> choose to design custom 'one off's' for well to do clients, that is their
> bread and butter.