Re: Gold-plater Chebacco?
The website for the V-39 has links to an excellent build up site that
provides much detail. The designer added some shaping to the hull
that makes the boat prettier and a touch harder to build. I would
agree that a Dakota appears to be an easier build than a V-39, and to
me is 'pretty enough'. A Windemere, Topaz, or Sitka Explorer would
be more complex than the V-39, but may be more seaworthy in open
water.
The Minnesota and Wyoming are both capable of handling big engines.
Their hulls reflect the complexity needed to provide adequate
strength without excessive weight to hamper the speed they can
provide. Wyoming is a significant effort just because of the scale,
being 50'. IMO for the size and performance in protected waters,
Minnesota looks straight forward.
The 63' Illinois is designed for displacement speeds, and thus may be
easier to build up from its 5"+ plywood foundation than the Wyoming.
Well, at least as easy as 450 sheets of plywood can be.
But as usual, I digress.
provides much detail. The designer added some shaping to the hull
that makes the boat prettier and a touch harder to build. I would
agree that a Dakota appears to be an easier build than a V-39, and to
me is 'pretty enough'. A Windemere, Topaz, or Sitka Explorer would
be more complex than the V-39, but may be more seaworthy in open
water.
The Minnesota and Wyoming are both capable of handling big engines.
Their hulls reflect the complexity needed to provide adequate
strength without excessive weight to hamper the speed they can
provide. Wyoming is a significant effort just because of the scale,
being 50'. IMO for the size and performance in protected waters,
Minnesota looks straight forward.
The 63' Illinois is designed for displacement speeds, and thus may be
easier to build up from its 5"+ plywood foundation than the Wyoming.
Well, at least as easy as 450 sheets of plywood can be.
But as usual, I digress.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Dillahunty <bdillahu@p...> wrote:
site. The boat shown is "LEAH GENT" named after his grandmother and
he is retracing her voyage taken in 1942 and carrying her photo album
of that trip to show the people along the way and experience the
difference now. Great idea. Some people make a goal and then do it.
Wish I knew how to do that:-(
The plans for that boat are a "steal" but the building method is a
lot more complicated than the State series. The 20 footer his dad
built is really neat looking as well.
Cheers, Nels
>That's the one Bruce! I forgot to include the link to the building
> On Jan 10, 2005, at 18:12, Nels wrote:
>
> >
> > Also on page 86, the 39' sharpie with 11" draft. Very Bolgeresque.
> >
>
> Which magazine is this??? That sounds much like
>
>http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/boatbuilding/id12.html
>
> Which I've been thinking about...
>
> Just looking for other ideas :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Bruce
site. The boat shown is "LEAH GENT" named after his grandmother and
he is retracing her voyage taken in 1942 and carrying her photo album
of that trip to show the people along the way and experience the
difference now. Great idea. Some people make a goal and then do it.
Wish I knew how to do that:-(
The plans for that boat are a "steal" but the building method is a
lot more complicated than the State series. The 20 footer his dad
built is really neat looking as well.
Cheers, Nels
I guess about 500 hours if I discount the thumb-twiddling time waiting for epoxy to cure as well as the huge number of hours spent studying the drawings and model-making before going anywhere near the wood. That could be wildly out, of course, because building (for me) is for fun, and I don't make a tally of the hours spent. I've got a pretty well-equipped workshop, for an amateur, but as you say, a pro could work an awful lot quicker.
In my opinion, though, market forces dictate the price (though not the inherent value) of the boat. I strongly suspect the buyer will always pay a premium for the professionally built boat, given the choice - even if a survey comes up with the two boats being of equal quality.
We have to remember that most people who buy boats know very little about how they are built and are willing to pay for reassurance about the quality procedures of the shop making them.
Bill
In my opinion, though, market forces dictate the price (though not the inherent value) of the boat. I strongly suspect the buyer will always pay a premium for the professionally built boat, given the choice - even if a survey comes up with the two boats being of equal quality.
We have to remember that most people who buy boats know very little about how they are built and are willing to pay for reassurance about the quality procedures of the shop making them.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: max56537
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:19 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Gold-plater Chebacco?
A professional or amateur builder may concieviably produce the same
quality boat. One may assume that the professional would build faster
but both boats should be of equal value. Mr. Sampson, how many hours
did you spend building your Chebacco?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Jan 10, 2005, at 18:12, Nels wrote:
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/boatbuilding/id12.html
Which I've been thinking about...
Just looking for other ideas :-)
Thanks,
Bruce
>Which magazine is this??? That sounds much like
> Also on page 86, the 39' sharpie with 11" draft. Very Bolgeresque.
>
http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/boatbuilding/id12.html
Which I've been thinking about...
Just looking for other ideas :-)
Thanks,
Bruce
A professional or amateur builder may concieviably produce the same
quality boat. One may assume that the professional would build faster
but both boats should be of equal value. Mr. Sampson, how many hours
did you spend building your Chebacco?
quality boat. One may assume that the professional would build faster
but both boats should be of equal value. Mr. Sampson, how many hours
did you spend building your Chebacco?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
(Charlton Heston:-)
That WB "Boats For Sale" supplement has some really interesting boats
in it!PCB 17' Yarrow $6000 Cdn. PCB Scooner for $2500 ...23' BOLGER
CUSTOM TRAWLER for $8500.
Or how about that 21' Bill Garden raised deck lee-boarder? Sweet
looking! Or the 30' DEVLIN CZARINNA. 30' 1928 Thornycroft hydroplane!
57' SPARKMAN AND STEVENS $1,215,000.00
I think I prefer the Chebacco over the 20' Ian Oughtred for $33,000
Aus, but either one would be worth the price.
A really good article in the magazine too about a family building a
64' three-masted schooner fit for Arctic waters. Strip-planked using
epoxy with ring nails. Are those birdsmouth masts?? How about bolting
on that 4000 lb I- beam keel shoe?
Also on page 86, the 39' sharpie with 11" draft. Very Bolgeresque.
Perfect January dream making!
Cheers, Nels
> > <sarcasm>And then brought down Moses to protect your right to use 'em
> We don't need no stink'n regulations
> here in the good ol' U.S. of A.,
> that's a'why god made guns.
> </sarcasm>
(Charlton Heston:-)
That WB "Boats For Sale" supplement has some really interesting boats
in it!PCB 17' Yarrow $6000 Cdn. PCB Scooner for $2500 ...23' BOLGER
CUSTOM TRAWLER for $8500.
Or how about that 21' Bill Garden raised deck lee-boarder? Sweet
looking! Or the 30' DEVLIN CZARINNA. 30' 1928 Thornycroft hydroplane!
57' SPARKMAN AND STEVENS $1,215,000.00
I think I prefer the Chebacco over the 20' Ian Oughtred for $33,000
Aus, but either one would be worth the price.
A really good article in the magazine too about a family building a
64' three-masted schooner fit for Arctic waters. Strip-planked using
epoxy with ring nails. Are those birdsmouth masts?? How about bolting
on that 4000 lb I- beam keel shoe?
Also on page 86, the 39' sharpie with 11" draft. Very Bolgeresque.
Perfect January dream making!
Cheers, Nels
>...according to the Recreational Craft Directive ...<sarcasm>
> Is there any equivalent customer guarantee in the US?
> Bill
We don't need no stink'n regulations
here in the good ol' U.S. of A.,
that's a'why god made guns.
</sarcasm>
I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, Dick. I remember Brad Story charging about $10000 for a built-to-order Chebacco about 15 years ago, and that incorporated modifications specified by the customer and was built by Brad Story himself - an umpteenth generation boatbuilder from a world-famous family of boatbuilders.
Taking inflation into account, we'd probably end up with this sort of price or even higher today.
My quibble (if that isn't too strong a word) is that the builder isn't specified on this ad, so I wonder if it was an amateur? At this price, I'd have to be heckuva sure of the credentials of the builder before springing that much for a boat that seems to have been built on spec.
I know that as a boatbuilder I'm not worth a fraction of the hourly pay of somebody like Story. Nor could I provide the level of after-sales service that a pro would be expected to provide. Normally, if I sell a home-built boat I've used for a few years, I'm happy if I get the cost of the materials back.
On this side of the pond a builder (amateur or professional) has to produce reams of paperwork on materials used, stability tests, kinds of use envisaged and so on in order to categorise his/her boat according to the Recreational Craft Directive UNLESS they have kept it for 5 years (and presumably not gotten drowned in the process!). Kayaks are exempt, I'm happy to say. Professional builders who produce more than one boat to a specification only have to produce the paperwork once.
Amateur builders have been known to complain about this legislation - but in the end it helps the builder as much as the customer if there's litigation. Is there any equivalent customer guarantee in the US?
Cheers,
Bill
Taking inflation into account, we'd probably end up with this sort of price or even higher today.
My quibble (if that isn't too strong a word) is that the builder isn't specified on this ad, so I wonder if it was an amateur? At this price, I'd have to be heckuva sure of the credentials of the builder before springing that much for a boat that seems to have been built on spec.
I know that as a boatbuilder I'm not worth a fraction of the hourly pay of somebody like Story. Nor could I provide the level of after-sales service that a pro would be expected to provide. Normally, if I sell a home-built boat I've used for a few years, I'm happy if I get the cost of the materials back.
On this side of the pond a builder (amateur or professional) has to produce reams of paperwork on materials used, stability tests, kinds of use envisaged and so on in order to categorise his/her boat according to the Recreational Craft Directive UNLESS they have kept it for 5 years (and presumably not gotten drowned in the process!). Kayaks are exempt, I'm happy to say. Professional builders who produce more than one boat to a specification only have to produce the paperwork once.
Amateur builders have been known to complain about this legislation - but in the end it helps the builder as much as the customer if there's litigation. Is there any equivalent customer guarantee in the US?
Cheers,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: seagulloutb
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Gold-plater Chebacco?
Bill, You know that US$18,900 is not only a good price but below the
poverty line for the one who built it. If one were to keep tabs on
the time and materials -- especially the time -- the price would
probably double, assuming a fair wage for difficult (if enjoyable)
and skilled (sort of, if one would refer to my efforts) work. Cannot
imagine parting with such slavish labor for cash. Only rationale for
sale that can enter a brain as dense as epoxy laden plywood would be
health and imminent demise, multiple sheriffs pounding at the door,
or -- this is really the only possibility that floats (death being
forever a postponed event due to epoxy on order, launching dates,
etc.) -- ...there's another boat design one has the eye on. Then it
is no longer a sane person we're talking about but...an amateur boat
builder.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built
2004) for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking
price is $18,900.
>
> Must be a beauty!
>
> Bill Samson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill, You know that US$18,900 is not only a good price but below the
poverty line for the one who built it. If one were to keep tabs on
the time and materials -- especially the time -- the price would
probably double, assuming a fair wage for difficult (if enjoyable)
and skilled (sort of, if one would refer to my efforts) work. Cannot
imagine parting with such slavish labor for cash. Only rationale for
sale that can enter a brain as dense as epoxy laden plywood would be
health and imminent demise, multiple sheriffs pounding at the door,
or -- this is really the only possibility that floats (death being
forever a postponed event due to epoxy on order, launching dates,
etc.) -- ...there's another boat design one has the eye on. Then it
is no longer a sane person we're talking about but...an amateur boat
builder.
poverty line for the one who built it. If one were to keep tabs on
the time and materials -- especially the time -- the price would
probably double, assuming a fair wage for difficult (if enjoyable)
and skilled (sort of, if one would refer to my efforts) work. Cannot
imagine parting with such slavish labor for cash. Only rationale for
sale that can enter a brain as dense as epoxy laden plywood would be
health and imminent demise, multiple sheriffs pounding at the door,
or -- this is really the only possibility that floats (death being
forever a postponed event due to epoxy on order, launching dates,
etc.) -- ...there's another boat design one has the eye on. Then it
is no longer a sane person we're talking about but...an amateur boat
builder.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built
2004) for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking
price is $18,900.
>
> Must be a beauty!
>
> Bill Samson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Did Gray Cat ever sell? It's my definition of a gold-plater.I don't know, but I hope George Cobb got a good price for her. He certainly pulled out all the stops to ensure that she was the gold-plater's gold plater! It's so sad that his health precluded him enjoying sailing her.
Talking of gold-plated Chebacci in BC, has anyone heard how Jim Slakov is enjoying his boat? I haven't heard anything since the initial launching a few years ago.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Samson" <willsamson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 2:26 PM
Subject: [bolger] Gold-plater Chebacco?
> I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built 2004)
> for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking price is
> $18,900.
> Must be a beauty!
I guess it must!
Did Gray Cat ever sell? It's my definition of a gold-plater.
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gcobb/
Gray Cat
Lapstrake Chebacco 20
LOD: 19' 6"
Beam: 7' 10"
Draft: 1' 0"
Sail Area: 176 sq. ft.
Built by an experienced amateur. Over four thousand hours building time.
The best of materials used. Finished with two-part polyurethane. Sprayed by
a professional. Bright work finished with Norwegian varnishing oil (between
six and eight coats).
Hull is built of 7 ply half-inch marine mahogany plywood; keel is built of
same material, laminated to proper thickness.The keel is covered with double
thickness of 11 oz. fibreglass cloth saturated with epoxy. 1/16 inch
stainless steel was then attached to the bottom of the keel and up the stem
as far as 22 inches above the waterline. Outside of boat is covered with 11
or 6 oz. fiberglass cloth which was then saturated with epoxy, then an
additional four to five coats to allow for sanding to a mirror finish before
painting. Inside has four coats of epoxy.
Spars are solid Sitka spruce. Fittings are all top quality such as Harkin
or custom made of bronze or stainless steel.
Three sails (main, jib, and mizzen.) All lines, sheets and halyards ready
to go. None of them ever used.
Custom made trailer with extendable tongue for easy launching. Elaborate
supports that fit to cabin and aft cockpit bulkhead to hold spars for long
distance trailering.
No O.B. motor. (4 to 5 HP would be suitable.)
The boat was completed Sept.2000 but ill health precluded launching and am
selling the boat now for the same reason.
Price $12,500 USD
(See article in Wooden Boat - #107, Pg. 80)
Address:
George Cobb,
186 Gallagher St.,
Shediac, N.B.,
Canada, E4P-1T1
Email:gcobb@...
Phone: 506-532-0007
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Samson" <willsamson@...>
> I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built 2004)
> for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking price is
> $18,900.
>
> Must be a beauty!
>
> Bill Samson
Hi Guys,
I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built 2004) for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking price is $18,900.
Must be a beauty!
Bill Samson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I see in the supplement to WB this issue there's a Chebacco (built 2004) for sale, but no mention of who the builder is. The asking price is $18,900.
Must be a beauty!
Bill Samson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]