Re: [bolger] Plywood
On 07/21/2011 03:11 PM, John and Kathy Trussell wrote:1) Not too sure what kind of plywood this might be; looks like some sort of luan/mahogany face. Presumably, since it is stored outside, it uses waterproof glue.
2) For smaller boats, 1” or even ¾” ply is pretty heavy. Most of PCB’s smaller boats are designed around ¼” (6mm) ply and many could use (or even benefit from) 3/8” (9mm). I’m thinking specifically of Micro here.
3) Boats require making long panels out of shorter ones, either through a butt, a Payson fg butt splice, or scarfing. To get a 12’ or 16’ panel out of these small pieces is probably a lot more trouble than it’s worth.
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf OfDouglas Pollard
Sent:Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:23 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.comSubject:[bolger] Plywood
Here is a bunch of plywood for sale might be Ok for boat
use??? Doug
http://winchester.craigslist.org/grd/2456747837.html
1) Not too sure what kind of plywood this might be; looks like some sort of luan/mahogany face. Presumably, since it is stored outside, it uses waterproof glue.
2) For smaller boats, 1” or even ¾” ply is pretty heavy. Most of PCB’s smaller boats are designed around ¼” (6mm) ply and many could use (or even benefit from) 3/8” (9mm). I’m thinking specifically of Micro here.
3) Boats require making long panels out of shorter ones, either through a butt, a Payson fg butt splice, or scarfing. To get a 12’ or 16’ panel out of these small pieces is probably a lot more trouble than it’s worth.
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf OfDouglas Pollard
Sent:Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:23
PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Plywood
Here is a
bunch of plywood for sale might be Ok for boat
use??? Doug
http://winchester.craigslist.org/grd/2456747837.html
Here is a bunch of plywood for sale might be Ok for boat
use??? Doug
http://winchester.craigslist.org/grd/2456747837.html
use??? Doug
http://winchester.craigslist.org/grd/2456747837.html
Hi Folks
Any series of pictures up on a website of a finished (or near finished) Windemere?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Any series of pictures up on a website of a finished (or near finished) Windemere?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
James,
And a very happy birthday to you !!
I've read all the answers to date and they all sound well & good . . .
HOWEVER . . .
Whenever 'they' put plastic laminate over ply, it certainly ISN'T going
to be the 'top grade' stuff. Plus, this much sounds like it is from an
old display and there would have been no reason to even use ACX
{exterior} stuff.
If it was me, I'd take one of the longer pieces, smooth, round over, &
seal the edges. Then I'd wax & buff the hell out of the laminated side.
Then, when needed, I'd throw it across a couple of 'horses and use it as
a 'wet-out' table. Maybe glue some stabilizing/locating cleats on the
bottom or whatever suited me. The rest I'd either use for molds on a
'ladder frame', or cut strips to use as the top surface on that same
frame. The laminate surface being excellent for taking 'grease pencil'
marks for frame locations, or assembly notes on the molds themselves.
I'd be very nervous about using this ply as part of the structure,
itself. Also the time and aggravation to strip off the plastic, clean up
and sheath the surface would make this very expensive, yet unknown
provenance, material.
At the present cost of 3/4 sheet goods, I'd just 'rathole' it away for a
future use . . . like the floor of a 'folding' utility trailer . . .
Regards & good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
I found 6 sheets of > 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full
sized and three are
And a very happy birthday to you !!
I've read all the answers to date and they all sound well & good . . .
HOWEVER . . .
Whenever 'they' put plastic laminate over ply, it certainly ISN'T going
to be the 'top grade' stuff. Plus, this much sounds like it is from an
old display and there would have been no reason to even use ACX
{exterior} stuff.
If it was me, I'd take one of the longer pieces, smooth, round over, &
seal the edges. Then I'd wax & buff the hell out of the laminated side.
Then, when needed, I'd throw it across a couple of 'horses and use it as
a 'wet-out' table. Maybe glue some stabilizing/locating cleats on the
bottom or whatever suited me. The rest I'd either use for molds on a
'ladder frame', or cut strips to use as the top surface on that same
frame. The laminate surface being excellent for taking 'grease pencil'
marks for frame locations, or assembly notes on the molds themselves.
I'd be very nervous about using this ply as part of the structure,
itself. Also the time and aggravation to strip off the plastic, clean up
and sheath the surface would make this very expensive, yet unknown
provenance, material.
At the present cost of 3/4 sheet goods, I'd just 'rathole' it away for a
future use . . . like the floor of a 'folding' utility trailer . . .
Regards & good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
> 1a. PlywoodSNIP
> Posted by: "howgegoboat"howgegoboat@...howgegoboat
> Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:40 pm (PDT)
>
I found 6 sheets of > 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full
sized and three are
> between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.SNIP
> My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
> (1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
> glued to the ply.
> Yours James
Hi I was late last night when I got it home, so I left in on the
drive.
I went out today and found that the laminate was contact cemented
onto the ply and can be easily pealed off, wih lifting the first
layer of ply, so all should be ok.
Which will allow me to start on building my boat up
Yours james
drive.
I went out today and found that the laminate was contact cemented
onto the ply and can be easily pealed off, wih lifting the first
layer of ply, so all should be ok.
Which will allow me to start on building my boat up
Yours james
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Martyn Aldis <martyn.aldis@...> wrote:
>
> In message <44DBDF07.1030405@...>, Christopher Wetherill
> <wetherillc@...> writes
> >James,
> >
> >I second David's comments and add that the laminate, if faced
inward
> >will compromise the structural integrity of the boat. It will
not glue
> >to the frames and will delaminate from the ply fairly quickly.
> >Chris
> >
> >David wrote:
> >> James,
> >>
> >> You could just leave it in place, but I would be very leery of
it.
> >> Contact cement will soften & release the laminate when
subjected to
> >> outdoors, direct sun types of temperatures. If you do leave it
on, I'd
> >> face it toward the inside, I think - where it's shadier?.
Really what
> >> I'd do - were I you - is strip the plastic laminate off. Stick
a putty
> >> knife under a corner to create a crack. Use a plastic squirt
bottle
> >> filled with lacquer thinner to squirt copious amount of solvent
into
> >> the crack, peeling the p. lam away from the plywood as you go.
It'll
> >> come away without damaging the plywood. It'll leave a slimy,
sticky
> >> slurry of contact cement on the plywood. I'd scrape as much of
that
> >> off as possible while it's still damp. After it dries, sand the
rest off.
> >> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "howgegoboat" <howgegoboat@>
wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi, Just a quick question to get you thinking tonight,
> >>> I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6
sheets of
> >>> 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three
are
> >>> between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my
boat.
> >>> My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick
formica
> >>> (1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact
adhesive
> >>> glued to the ply.
> >>> what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no
need for
> >>> painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely
upon
> >>> fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at
the
> >>> risk of dammaging the ply face.
> >>> What do you think.
>
> I have come across boards where the plastic laminate was put on
with a
> resin glue (the dried blood colour stuff as used for the
laminations of
> the ply itself). If your ply is like that, you will not be able to
> soften the glue with solvent but you could just take off the areas
> needed for any frame and stringer contact and other bonding with a
> router. If you don't have a guide system, a clamped-on plank works
well.
>
> There is a possible problem if the panel are severely bent in the
hull
> you are building and there is an expectation (as in Instant Boats)
that
> the ply will be self-fairing. The strips were the laminate is off
will
> bend more easily than the rest although with 19mm ply this may not
be
> significant.
> --
>
> Martyn Aldis, e-mail martyn.aldis@...
>
=====================================================================
=========
>
In message <44DBDF07.1030405@...>, Christopher Wetherill
<wetherillc@...> writes
resin glue (the dried blood colour stuff as used for the laminations of
the ply itself). If your ply is like that, you will not be able to
soften the glue with solvent but you could just take off the areas
needed for any frame and stringer contact and other bonding with a
router. If you don't have a guide system, a clamped-on plank works well.
There is a possible problem if the panel are severely bent in the hull
you are building and there is an expectation (as in Instant Boats) that
the ply will be self-fairing. The strips were the laminate is off will
bend more easily than the rest although with 19mm ply this may not be
significant.
--
Martyn Aldis, e-mailmartyn.aldis@...
==============================================================================
<wetherillc@...> writes
>James,I have come across boards where the plastic laminate was put on with a
>
>I second David's comments and add that the laminate, if faced inward
>will compromise the structural integrity of the boat. It will not glue
>to the frames and will delaminate from the ply fairly quickly.
>Chris
>
>David wrote:
>> James,
>>
>> You could just leave it in place, but I would be very leery of it.
>> Contact cement will soften & release the laminate when subjected to
>> outdoors, direct sun types of temperatures. If you do leave it on, I'd
>> face it toward the inside, I think - where it's shadier?. Really what
>> I'd do - were I you - is strip the plastic laminate off. Stick a putty
>> knife under a corner to create a crack. Use a plastic squirt bottle
>> filled with lacquer thinner to squirt copious amount of solvent into
>> the crack, peeling the p. lam away from the plywood as you go. It'll
>> come away without damaging the plywood. It'll leave a slimy, sticky
>> slurry of contact cement on the plywood. I'd scrape as much of that
>> off as possible while it's still damp. After it dries, sand the rest off.
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "howgegoboat" <howgegoboat@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Just a quick question to get you thinking tonight,
>>> I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6 sheets of
>>> 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three are
>>> between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.
>>> My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
>>> (1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
>>> glued to the ply.
>>> what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no need for
>>> painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely upon
>>> fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at the
>>> risk of dammaging the ply face.
>>> What do you think.
resin glue (the dried blood colour stuff as used for the laminations of
the ply itself). If your ply is like that, you will not be able to
soften the glue with solvent but you could just take off the areas
needed for any frame and stringer contact and other bonding with a
router. If you don't have a guide system, a clamped-on plank works well.
There is a possible problem if the panel are severely bent in the hull
you are building and there is an expectation (as in Instant Boats) that
the ply will be self-fairing. The strips were the laminate is off will
bend more easily than the rest although with 19mm ply this may not be
significant.
--
Martyn Aldis, e-mailmartyn.aldis@...
==============================================================================
James,
I second David's comments and add that the laminate, if faced inward
will compromise the structural integrity of the boat. It will not glue
to the frames and will delaminate from the ply fairly quickly. These
boats depend upon a tight bond between the framing and the skin to be
stiff and able to withstand the rigors of moving around in a sea. If
the skin is not well stuck to the frames, the boat could collapse like a
house of cards.
To demonstrate my point, go to a liquor store and get two identical
shipping cartons with loose bottle dividers inside. In one carton,
fasten the dividers to the box wall with duct tape along the joints
(analogous to gluing the skin to the frames). Seal both boxes. Stand
each box up on a corner and crush it by leaning on the corner that is
pointing up. The one with untaped dividers will collapse much easier
than the one with tape.
V/R
Chris
David wrote:
I second David's comments and add that the laminate, if faced inward
will compromise the structural integrity of the boat. It will not glue
to the frames and will delaminate from the ply fairly quickly. These
boats depend upon a tight bond between the framing and the skin to be
stiff and able to withstand the rigors of moving around in a sea. If
the skin is not well stuck to the frames, the boat could collapse like a
house of cards.
To demonstrate my point, go to a liquor store and get two identical
shipping cartons with loose bottle dividers inside. In one carton,
fasten the dividers to the box wall with duct tape along the joints
(analogous to gluing the skin to the frames). Seal both boxes. Stand
each box up on a corner and crush it by leaning on the corner that is
pointing up. The one with untaped dividers will collapse much easier
than the one with tape.
V/R
Chris
David wrote:
> James,
>
> You could just leave it in place, but I would be very leery of it.
> Contact cement will soften & release the laminate when subjected to
> outdoors, direct sun types of temperatures. If you do leave it on, I'd
> face it toward the inside, I think - where it's shadier?. Really what
> I'd do - were I you - is strip the plastic laminate off. Stick a putty
> knife under a corner to create a crack. Use a plastic squirt bottle
> filled with lacquer thinner to squirt copious amount of solvent into
> the crack, peeling the p. lam away from the plywood as you go. It'll
> come away without damaging the plywood. It'll leave a slimy, sticky
> slurry of contact cement on the plywood. I'd scrape as much of that
> off as possible while it's still damp. After it dries, sand the rest off.
>
> Good Luck,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
>
> "There's nothing more permanent than a good temporary fix"
>
> *************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "howgegoboat" <howgegoboat@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Just a quick question to get you thinking tonight,
>> I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6 sheets of
>> 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three are
>> between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.
>> My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
>> (1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
>> glued to the ply.
>> what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no need for
>> painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely upon
>> fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at the
>> risk of dammaging the ply face.
>> What do you think.
>> Laminated my next deck beam, 3 down 7 to go.
>>
>> Yours James
>>
>
>
>
>
>
James,
You could just leave it in place, but I would be very leery of it.
Contact cement will soften & release the laminate when subjected to
outdoors, direct sun types of temperatures. If you do leave it on, I'd
face it toward the inside, I think - where it's shadier?. Really what
I'd do - were I you - is strip the plastic laminate off. Stick a putty
knife under a corner to create a crack. Use a plastic squirt bottle
filled with lacquer thinner to squirt copious amount of solvent into
the crack, peeling the p. lam away from the plywood as you go. It'll
come away without damaging the plywood. It'll leave a slimy, sticky
slurry of contact cement on the plywood. I'd scrape as much of that
off as possible while it's still damp. After it dries, sand the rest off.
Good Luck,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"There's nothing more permanent than a good temporary fix"
*************
You could just leave it in place, but I would be very leery of it.
Contact cement will soften & release the laminate when subjected to
outdoors, direct sun types of temperatures. If you do leave it on, I'd
face it toward the inside, I think - where it's shadier?. Really what
I'd do - were I you - is strip the plastic laminate off. Stick a putty
knife under a corner to create a crack. Use a plastic squirt bottle
filled with lacquer thinner to squirt copious amount of solvent into
the crack, peeling the p. lam away from the plywood as you go. It'll
come away without damaging the plywood. It'll leave a slimy, sticky
slurry of contact cement on the plywood. I'd scrape as much of that
off as possible while it's still damp. After it dries, sand the rest off.
Good Luck,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"There's nothing more permanent than a good temporary fix"
*************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "howgegoboat" <howgegoboat@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Just a quick question to get you thinking tonight,
> I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6 sheets of
> 3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three are
> between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.
> My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
> (1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
> glued to the ply.
> what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no need for
> painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely upon
> fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at the
> risk of dammaging the ply face.
> What do you think.
> Laminated my next deck beam, 3 down 7 to go.
>
> Yours James
Hi, Just a quick question to get you thinking tonight,
I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6 sheets of
3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three are
between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.
My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
(1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
glued to the ply.
what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no need for
painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely upon
fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at the
risk of dammaging the ply face.
What do you think.
Laminated my next deck beam, 3 down 7 to go.
Yours James
I've just been down to wickes (diy store) where I found 6 sheets of
3/4 ply in a skip! Its my birthday! 3 are full sized and three are
between 4ft and 6ft, this will be great for the bottom of my boat.
My question is that they are coated with a layer of thick formica
(1/16 or so), or simalar plastic which I guess is contact adhesive
glued to the ply.
what should I do with this finish place it face outward - no need for
painting / anti fouling, or do I place it face inward and rely upon
fasteners to hold it in place, or do I strip it off the ply at the
risk of dammaging the ply face.
What do you think.
Laminated my next deck beam, 3 down 7 to go.
Yours James
If you enter BS 6566 1088 into Google's search box, you will get over
200 hits. The two standards should be explained somewhere within the
first few pages listed.
Howard
200 hits. The two standards should be explained somewhere within the
first few pages listed.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> The prices at the Noah's site you posted are in $cdn. For the 12 mm
> 6566 they quote under $40 USD for 10+ sheets. So for 25 sheets that
> would be a saving of over 30% from the 1088.
>
> I wonder that the difference is, other than a bit thinner layers in
> the 1088?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "paulthober" <paulthober@y...> wrote:
The prices at the Noah's site you posted are in $cdn. For the 12 mm
6566 they quote under $40 USD for 10+ sheets. So for 25 sheets that
would be a saving of over 30% from the 1088.
I wonder that the difference is, other than a bit thinner layers in
the 1088?
Nels
>found
> Thanks to those that provided me with info and links about marine
> plywood. Below is a list of suppliers including a couple that I
> on my own:http://www.noahsmarine.com/United_States/Plywoods-us/plywoods-us.html
>
>What about the BS 6566 Meranti?
The prices at the Noah's site you posted are in $cdn. For the 12 mm
6566 they quote under $40 USD for 10+ sheets. So for 25 sheets that
would be a saving of over 30% from the 1088.
I wonder that the difference is, other than a bit thinner layers in
the 1088?
Nels
Thanks to those that provided me with info and links about marine
plywood. Below is a list of suppliers including a couple that I found
on my own:
http://alliedveneer.com/index.html
http://www.noahsmarine.com/Canada/Plywoods-can/plywoods-can.html
http://www.theworkbench.com/plywood.php
http://www.harborsales.net/index.cfm
http://www.edensaw.com/
http://plywood.e-boat.net/index.php
http://www.macbeath.com/
The best find (for me) is MacBeath Hardwoods of Berkeley, CA. They
have 12 mm BS1088 meranti for $61 a sheet (for 25 sheets) and they
will deliver to Davis (about 70 miles) for free. They also have a vast
supply and variety of hardwoods and hardwood plywoods.
Paul
plywood. Below is a list of suppliers including a couple that I found
on my own:
http://alliedveneer.com/index.html
http://www.noahsmarine.com/Canada/Plywoods-can/plywoods-can.html
http://www.theworkbench.com/plywood.php
http://www.harborsales.net/index.cfm
http://www.edensaw.com/
http://plywood.e-boat.net/index.php
http://www.macbeath.com/
The best find (for me) is MacBeath Hardwoods of Berkeley, CA. They
have 12 mm BS1088 meranti for $61 a sheet (for 25 sheets) and they
will deliver to Davis (about 70 miles) for free. They also have a vast
supply and variety of hardwoods and hardwood plywoods.
Paul
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
Now I figure if you use duct tape
You could save that last step!
Nels:-)
> [sorry about the accidental post just prior]First did the
>
> > used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs.
>
> inside fillets, then flipped theCould this be called "Tape and Tape"?
> boat and removed the masking tape
> and did the exterior taped seams.
Now I figure if you use duct tape
You could save that last step!
Nels:-)
Isn't it time in this discussion for MDO to rear it's head? As I
understand it, no checking and no need for glass except to protect
edges. I'd certainly consider it for a Micro, tho I haven't done
anything heavy enough to use MDO's greater thickness. I'm always
worried about weight because I have to pick the boats up myself
sometimes.
understand it, no checking and no need for glass except to protect
edges. I'd certainly consider it for a Micro, tho I haven't done
anything heavy enough to use MDO's greater thickness. I'm always
worried about weight because I have to pick the boats up myself
sometimes.
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
>
> I generally
> > expect S&G boats to be more rugged in the chine area, and lower
> > maintenance. they are certainly more trouble to build. If you
> gold
> > plate a Bolger Box too much, you should probably be building a
> > different boat.
>
> I appreciate these different points of view. I'm still planning
> the building of the Micro and haven't bought plywood yet. I can
> buy Doug Fir locally and have to go elsewhere or else order to
> get anything else of marine quality. I hear the caution about
> loading up a Bolger square boat. It looks like wood chines and
> exterior fiberglass. At least epoxy will set here in California
> except maybe at night midwinter. Thanks, Charles
--- In bolger@y..., "Glen Gibson" <glen@i...> wrote:
boat. I'm saving these posts in my Micro file for reference.
I can't find any okume locally, though I can order it. Possible
to Email me off group? Charles
>(I'm near San Francisco ;-)
> Charles,
> Glen Gibson hear, builder of the Micro "Jack of Hearts" (see bo
>
> Best of luck, and if you want to go for a sail, just let me know!
>I've seen the pictures of the Jack of Hearts. Nice looking
> Glen
boat. I'm saving these posts in my Micro file for reference.
I can't find any okume locally, though I can order it. Possible
to Email me off group? Charles
>
--- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
I generally
> expect S&G boats to be more rugged in the chine area, and lower
> maintenance. they are certainly more trouble to build. If you
gold
> plate a Bolger Box too much, you should probably be building a
> different boat.
I appreciate these different points of view. I'm still planning
the building of the Micro and haven't bought plywood yet. I can
buy Doug Fir locally and have to go elsewhere or else order to
get anything else of marine quality. I hear the caution about
loading up a Bolger square boat. It looks like wood chines and
exterior fiberglass. At least epoxy will set here in California
except maybe at night midwinter. Thanks, Charles
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
where it isn't covered with glass. If you glass all externalt
surfaces, which is the best way to get long lasting finishes, then D
Fir does very well. The footballs, or "Dutchmen" are fine in marine
grade, as long as they are filled with wood not putty (if putty, then
it isn't real marine grade). Check the edges for any signs of
pockets, which should not be present.
I agree with those others who say the better deal is probably foreign
source wood. Localy, I can get 1/2" Luan with marine glue, but not
marine grade for 36 canadian. The panels look perfect, and wiil
perform indenticaly when coated with glass and epoxy. There are some
grade differences with 1088 that when it comes to boats made of ply,
and exposed to the weather, can affect outcomes. Generaly though, I
won't be spending that kind of money on high grade ply, and leaving
it unprotected. The exception would be something like a lap ply boat
where glassing generaly isn't practical.
The Miranti I have seen, is much heavier than the luan sold at the
same store, about 25%. Whether that is typical I don't know.
Generaly it weighs about the same as DFir.
The way Bolger sets up the construction of most of his boats,
whithout giving you the exact dimention of all the panels, makes
getting a fair result from stich and glue a little more difficult.
On the other hand it can certainly be done either way. I generally
expect S&G boats to be more rugged in the chine area, and lower
maintenance. they are certainly more trouble to build. If you gold
plate a Bolger Box too much, you should probably be building a
different boat.
> I'm building a little practice boat out of lauan and plan to build awhole
> Micro. I just located a local source of Marine plywood. I plan to
> build the Micro mostly 3/8 douglas fir marine plywood. Question one,
> is 3/8 reasonable? Heavy? The plywood I saw today says Marine grade
> AB douglas fir. I looked at it, it does have some of those football
> shaped patches here and there. Is that O.K? I plan to glass the
> outside. Thanks for the help. CharlesMarine DFir is great stuff, but it is prone to lots of little checks
where it isn't covered with glass. If you glass all externalt
surfaces, which is the best way to get long lasting finishes, then D
Fir does very well. The footballs, or "Dutchmen" are fine in marine
grade, as long as they are filled with wood not putty (if putty, then
it isn't real marine grade). Check the edges for any signs of
pockets, which should not be present.
I agree with those others who say the better deal is probably foreign
source wood. Localy, I can get 1/2" Luan with marine glue, but not
marine grade for 36 canadian. The panels look perfect, and wiil
perform indenticaly when coated with glass and epoxy. There are some
grade differences with 1088 that when it comes to boats made of ply,
and exposed to the weather, can affect outcomes. Generaly though, I
won't be spending that kind of money on high grade ply, and leaving
it unprotected. The exception would be something like a lap ply boat
where glassing generaly isn't practical.
The Miranti I have seen, is much heavier than the luan sold at the
same store, about 25%. Whether that is typical I don't know.
Generaly it weighs about the same as DFir.
The way Bolger sets up the construction of most of his boats,
whithout giving you the exact dimention of all the panels, makes
getting a fair result from stich and glue a little more difficult.
On the other hand it can certainly be done either way. I generally
expect S&G boats to be more rugged in the chine area, and lower
maintenance. they are certainly more trouble to build. If you gold
plate a Bolger Box too much, you should probably be building a
different boat.
Exactly $45.58 / sheet US for 80 sheets and that included shipping from
their depot in Toronto to Fort Collins, Colorado. I think the per sheet
price before shipping was about $38.00 at that volume discount.
Jeff
their depot in Toronto to Fort Collins, Colorado. I think the per sheet
price before shipping was about $38.00 at that volume discount.
Jeff
Thanks Derek and Jeff.
$26 US is about the same as $42 Cdn, so the prices are comparible,
depending on when you bought it. Prices have gone up recently. So
what did you pay for the 1/2" Jeff? In Regina, at Windsor Plywood,
marine fir is about $50 Cdn for 1/4" and $65 Cdn for 1/2" plus 15%
tax! So this would be $6000 for 80 sheets. Well, looking at the
prices of boats in Sail magazine - that number might get you a nice
dingy:-)
Nels
$26 US is about the same as $42 Cdn, so the prices are comparible,
depending on when you bought it. Prices have gone up recently. So
what did you pay for the 1/2" Jeff? In Regina, at Windsor Plywood,
marine fir is about $50 Cdn for 1/4" and $65 Cdn for 1/2" plus 15%
tax! So this would be $6000 for 80 sheets. Well, looking at the
prices of boats in Sail magazine - that number might get you a nice
dingy:-)
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Noah's Marine Supply (Ontario Can.) will sell it to you for 1/4
inch Meranti
> BS6566 for $26.00 U.S. per sheet. I used 1/2" on my Wyo and
ordered 80
> sheets of the BS 6566
[sorry about the accidental post just prior]
Michalak 'Roar' which just had the
encounter with 'god'. It was
strong. Instead of a wire 'stitch'
I used masking tape, which was
quick and easy. First did the
inside fillets, then flipped the
boat and removed the masking tape
and did the exterior taped seams.
> used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs.I used stich and glue on my
Michalak 'Roar' which just had the
encounter with 'god'. It was
strong. Instead of a wire 'stitch'
I used masking tape, which was
quick and easy. First did the
inside fillets, then flipped the
boat and removed the masking tape
and did the exterior taped seams.
--- In bolger@y..., "Glen Gibson" <glen@i...> wrote:
describing, used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs. Actually,
I used this on all "exterior" corners, between bottom and sides, bow
and stern transom and sides, etc. A nice fillet backed with 2 layers
of bi-axial cloth, one about 2 inches wide, the second about 3
inches wide. The boat was built out of 9mm BS1088 okuume(sp?) with a
doubled bottom, doubled transom, and tripled (just for fun) bow
transom. Boat was slathered inside and out with Raka epoxy, and
painted with latex. Interior was just varnished, couldn't bring
myself to paint that beautiful wood....
but if I did it again I'd probably use a simple strongback, just to
be sure...
which I hate. I think stitch and glue is great, and plan on using it
again, but not really suited for simple 90 degree corners. Hard to
get smooth, and really hard to get a good smooth corner where 3
pieces meet.
them with a piece of fiberglass inside. This would result in a very
strong, easily cleaned joint. Might even be easier to do than
squarish chine logs, as cutting the "notches" in the bulkheads was be
easier.
I left several in and clear coated over them, so you can still see
them.
>bolger2 photo section). I actually did exactly what you are
> Charles,
> Glen Gibson hear, builder of the Micro "Jack of Hearts" (see
describing, used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs. Actually,
I used this on all "exterior" corners, between bottom and sides, bow
and stern transom and sides, etc. A nice fillet backed with 2 layers
of bi-axial cloth, one about 2 inches wide, the second about 3
inches wide. The boat was built out of 9mm BS1088 okuume(sp?) with a
doubled bottom, doubled transom, and tripled (just for fun) bow
transom. Boat was slathered inside and out with Raka epoxy, and
painted with latex. Interior was just varnished, couldn't bring
myself to paint that beautiful wood....
>strongback, and used the recommended string method to line things up,
> Needless to say, the boat is extremely strong. I built without a
but if I did it again I'd probably use a simple strongback, just to
be sure...
>added quite a bit to the construction time. Expecially the sanding,
> As for the stitch and glue, it worked, is extremely strong, but
which I hate. I think stitch and glue is great, and plan on using it
again, but not really suited for simple 90 degree corners. Hard to
get smooth, and really hard to get a good smooth corner where 3
pieces meet.
>chine logs, but using triangular ones instead of square, and covering
> If I were to do it again, I'd seriously give some thought to using
them with a piece of fiberglass inside. This would result in a very
strong, easily cleaned joint. Might even be easier to do than
squarish chine logs, as cutting the "notches" in the bulkheads was be
easier.
>from mcfeeley's, and was very happy with them. And they look so cool
> As for metal fasteners, I bought some square drive bronze screws
I left several in and clear coated over them, so you can still see
them.
>(I'm near San Francisco ;-)
> Best of luck, and if you want to go for a sail, just let me know!
>and
> Glen
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
> > Thanks for the interest, Peter. As to the plywood, I thinks it's
> just
> > run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it's
> > glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
> > thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside
> > bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?I'm
> > I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling,
> > getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metallogs.
> > fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
> > tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine
> Iscomfortable
> > that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not
> > with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 totalon
> > the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
> >
>
>
> __
Charles,
Glen Gibson hear, builder of the Micro "Jack of Hearts" (see bolger2 photo section). I actually did exactly what you are describing, used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs. Actually, I used this on all "exterior" corners, between bottom and sides, bow and stern transom and sides, etc. A nice fillet backed with 2 layers of bi-axial cloth, one about 2 inches wide, the second about 3 inches wide. The boat was built out of 9mm BS1088 okuume(sp?) with a doubled bottom, doubled transom, and tripled (just for fun) bow transom. Boat was slathered inside and out with Raka epoxy, and painted with latex. Interior was just varnished, couldn't bring myself to paint that beautiful wood....
Needless to say, the boat is extremely strong. I built without a strongback, and used the recommended string method to line things up, but if I did it again I'd probably use a simple strongback, just to be sure...
As for the stitch and glue, it worked, is extremely strong, but added quite a bit to the construction time. Expecially the sanding, which I hate. I think stitch and glue is great, and plan on using it again, but not really suited for simple 90 degree corners. Hard to get smooth, and really hard to get a good smooth corner where 3 pieces meet.
If I were to do it again, I'd seriously give some thought to using chine logs, but using triangular ones instead of square, and covering them with a piece of fiberglass inside. This would result in a very strong, easily cleaned joint. Might even be easier to do than squarish chine logs, as cutting the "notches" in the bulkheads was be easier.
As for metal fasteners, I bought some square drive bronze screws from mcfeeley's, and was very happy with them. And they look so cool I left several in and clear coated over them, so you can still see them.
Best of luck, and if you want to go for a sail, just let me know! (I'm near San Francisco ;-)
Glen
Glen Gibson hear, builder of the Micro "Jack of Hearts" (see bolger2 photo section). I actually did exactly what you are describing, used "stitch and glue" instead of chine logs. Actually, I used this on all "exterior" corners, between bottom and sides, bow and stern transom and sides, etc. A nice fillet backed with 2 layers of bi-axial cloth, one about 2 inches wide, the second about 3 inches wide. The boat was built out of 9mm BS1088 okuume(sp?) with a doubled bottom, doubled transom, and tripled (just for fun) bow transom. Boat was slathered inside and out with Raka epoxy, and painted with latex. Interior was just varnished, couldn't bring myself to paint that beautiful wood....
Needless to say, the boat is extremely strong. I built without a strongback, and used the recommended string method to line things up, but if I did it again I'd probably use a simple strongback, just to be sure...
As for the stitch and glue, it worked, is extremely strong, but added quite a bit to the construction time. Expecially the sanding, which I hate. I think stitch and glue is great, and plan on using it again, but not really suited for simple 90 degree corners. Hard to get smooth, and really hard to get a good smooth corner where 3 pieces meet.
If I were to do it again, I'd seriously give some thought to using chine logs, but using triangular ones instead of square, and covering them with a piece of fiberglass inside. This would result in a very strong, easily cleaned joint. Might even be easier to do than squarish chine logs, as cutting the "notches" in the bulkheads was be easier.
As for metal fasteners, I bought some square drive bronze screws from mcfeeley's, and was very happy with them. And they look so cool I left several in and clear coated over them, so you can still see them.
Best of luck, and if you want to go for a sail, just let me know! (I'm near San Francisco ;-)
Glen
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
> Thanks for the interest, Peter. As to the plywood, I thinks it's
just
> run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it's
> glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
> thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside and
> bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?
> I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling, I'm
> getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metal
> fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
> tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine logs.
Is
> that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not comfortable
> with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 total on
> the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
>
__
Noah's Marine Supply (Ontario Can.) will sell it to you for 1/4 inch Meranti
BS6566 for $26.00 U.S. per sheet. I used 1/2" on my Wyo and ordered 80
sheets of the BS 6566 but when delivered it was a mix of BS 1088 and BS
6566. There is no noticeable difference in the two types other than the
6566 has 1/2 mm thinner surface ply but there are no voids of any kind or
surface defects in either version. It's basically cabinet grade quality on
the surface plys. Meranti is supposedly in the Luan family of woods. It
seems to be a much tighter grain than the typical Luan underlayment found
around here.
I too would prefer working with Meranti over Fir marine ply any day. It's
just easier and I think stronger. It uses a lot less epoxy when coating. I
can't say from experience but it's not supposed to check either. Both
weight the same at about 50 lbs per 1/2" sheet.
Jeff
<dgw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Plywood
BS6566 for $26.00 U.S. per sheet. I used 1/2" on my Wyo and ordered 80
sheets of the BS 6566 but when delivered it was a mix of BS 1088 and BS
6566. There is no noticeable difference in the two types other than the
6566 has 1/2 mm thinner surface ply but there are no voids of any kind or
surface defects in either version. It's basically cabinet grade quality on
the surface plys. Meranti is supposedly in the Luan family of woods. It
seems to be a much tighter grain than the typical Luan underlayment found
around here.
I too would prefer working with Meranti over Fir marine ply any day. It's
just easier and I think stronger. It uses a lot less epoxy when coating. I
can't say from experience but it's not supposed to check either. Both
weight the same at about 50 lbs per 1/2" sheet.
Jeff
<dgw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Plywood
> Hi Nelsthe
> I'm in BC.
> The Meranti I was thinking off came from Smiths in Surrey, BC but they say
> they no longer carry it. I checked West Wind's list that I picked up at
> Vancouver Wooden Boat festival a couple of months ago and they list Marinemy
> fir 1/4" at C$46 and Meranti at C$49, so on that accounting I overstated
> case. Given how much nicer it is to work with I'd still have the Merantiin
> flash though and damn the extra three bucks. That price is for BS 6566. Ifreight -
> bought some BS 1088 and some BS 6566 the last time, and there was no
> perceptible difference in quality - both are gorgeous 5 ply, no voids or
> face flaws, and both passed my not-quite-patented crock-pot boil test with
> flying colours. The 1/4" 1088 lists at C$60 and I'm sure there must be a
> difference but it was hard to spot.
> I haven't used the service but I'm pretty sure WestWind ship truck
> it might just be cheaper than driving the one ton over from the flatlands.01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> Cheers
> Derek
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Hi Nels
I'm in BC.
The Meranti I was thinking off came from Smiths in Surrey, BC but they say
they no longer carry it. I checked West Wind's list that I picked up at the
Vancouver Wooden Boat festival a couple of months ago and they list Marine
fir 1/4" at C$46 and Meranti at C$49, so on that accounting I overstated my
case. Given how much nicer it is to work with I'd still have the Meranti in
flash though and damn the extra three bucks. That price is for BS 6566. I
bought some BS 1088 and some BS 6566 the last time, and there was no
perceptible difference in quality - both are gorgeous 5 ply, no voids or
face flaws, and both passed my not-quite-patented crock-pot boil test with
flying colours. The 1/4" 1088 lists at C$60 and I'm sure there must be a
difference but it was hard to spot.
I haven't used the service but I'm pretty sure WestWind ship truck freight -
it might just be cheaper than driving the one ton over from the flatlands.
Cheers
Derek
I'm in BC.
The Meranti I was thinking off came from Smiths in Surrey, BC but they say
they no longer carry it. I checked West Wind's list that I picked up at the
Vancouver Wooden Boat festival a couple of months ago and they list Marine
fir 1/4" at C$46 and Meranti at C$49, so on that accounting I overstated my
case. Given how much nicer it is to work with I'd still have the Meranti in
flash though and damn the extra three bucks. That price is for BS 6566. I
bought some BS 1088 and some BS 6566 the last time, and there was no
perceptible difference in quality - both are gorgeous 5 ply, no voids or
face flaws, and both passed my not-quite-patented crock-pot boil test with
flying colours. The 1/4" 1088 lists at C$60 and I'm sure there must be a
difference but it was hard to spot.
I haven't used the service but I'm pretty sure WestWind ship truck freight -
it might just be cheaper than driving the one ton over from the flatlands.
Cheers
Derek
Hi Chance, see page 26 of the Forest Products Laboratory Wood
Handbook. The address has been posted on the Links (bottom of page).
Bob Chamberland
Handbook. The address has been posted on the Links (bottom of page).
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., Chance Curtis <sneakeasy2002@y...> wrote:
>
> Is Meranti a type or brand name?
> CCG
Is Meranti a type or brand name?
CCG
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:Two quick points, Charles. I don't know where you are located, but here in
Western Canada where they cut the Doug Fir, imported Meranti marine ply can
be had for less money than marine Fir. IMO the Meranti is much more pleasant
stuff to work with, and better made to boot.
If you increase the scantlings but keep the same bulkhead dimensions (the
easy way to do it) the additional wood is being added to the outside of the
boat. Net result is a fractionally larger boat which floats marginally
higher (wood being less dense than water, of course) - tougher _and_ more
'floaty' - the best of both worlds.
Cheers
Derek
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CCG
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:Two quick points, Charles. I don't know where you are located, but here in
Western Canada where they cut the Doug Fir, imported Meranti marine ply can
be had for less money than marine Fir. IMO the Meranti is much more pleasant
stuff to work with, and better made to boot.
If you increase the scantlings but keep the same bulkhead dimensions (the
easy way to do it) the additional wood is being added to the outside of the
boat. Net result is a fractionally larger boat which floats marginally
higher (wood being less dense than water, of course) - tougher _and_ more
'floaty' - the best of both worlds.
Cheers
Derek
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow - So THAT is what a "cliff" is!
Nels (From the bald-assed plains of Saskatchewan:-)
Nels (From the bald-assed plains of Saskatchewan:-)
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/roar/
>
> > I'd really hate to see what your
> > notion of "crushed" alot is Bruce.
>
> IMO, the damage looks almost superficial.
>
> None of the seams split.
> The glassed bottom bounced
> the boulders away.
>
> Heck, the boat could almost
> still float!
>
> Some Bondo, and a few
> plywood patches is all
> she needs to be good
> again.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/roar/
None of the seams split.
The glassed bottom bounced
the boulders away.
Heck, the boat could almost
still float!
Some Bondo, and a few
plywood patches is all
she needs to be good
again.
> I'd really hate to see what yourIMO, the damage looks almost superficial.
> notion of "crushed" alot is Bruce.
None of the seams split.
The glassed bottom bounced
the boulders away.
Heck, the boat could almost
still float!
Some Bondo, and a few
plywood patches is all
she needs to be good
again.
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
Gentlemen, thank you, I have learned,
That I will use chine logs on the Micro
as per plan.
That Bruce Hallman builds very well
put together boats of lauan.
That when my Big Tortoise, also of
lauan, is done, I won't store it at
the foot of a cliff. Though frankly
I don't expect it to be as nice as
that Roar.
Charles
> > I have to agree with Peter , I used to overbuild my first boats ,Now those are some amazing pictures.
>
> Personally, I tend towards the
> under-build school of thought.
>
> On my Mickalak Roar skiff, I built
> five years ago, I used only the
> cheapest 1/4" lauan plywood
> and tape on only once side
> of the seams. Glass on only
> the center of the bottom.
> Polyester resin was cheaper.
>
> !!!Well!!!
>
> The gods put this 1/4" lauan to
> the test yesterday. I store
> the boat at the foot of a rock
> cliff, and perhaps two tons
> of boulders crashed down on
> the boat overnight.
Gentlemen, thank you, I have learned,
That I will use chine logs on the Micro
as per plan.
That Bruce Hallman builds very well
put together boats of lauan.
That when my Big Tortoise, also of
lauan, is done, I won't store it at
the foot of a cliff. Though frankly
I don't expect it to be as nice as
that Roar.
Charles
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
Bruce.Where I come from,your boat would be considered seriously
damaged and perhaps not even worth repairing.
Then again,you guys in the sunny south can be a surprisingly tuff
gang more accustomed to big time destruction scenarios.
Thankfully,no one was injured!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,re-thinking some definitions,from the shores of the
St.Lawrence up here in pinko land.......
>I'd really hate to see what your notion of "crushed" alot is
> The boat got crushed a bit
> See photos at:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/roar/
Bruce.Where I come from,your boat would be considered seriously
damaged and perhaps not even worth repairing.
Then again,you guys in the sunny south can be a surprisingly tuff
gang more accustomed to big time destruction scenarios.
Thankfully,no one was injured!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,re-thinking some definitions,from the shores of the
St.Lawrence up here in pinko land.......
> I have to agree with Peter , I used to overbuild my first boats ,Personally, I tend towards the
under-build school of thought.
On my Mickalak Roar skiff, I built
five years ago, I used only the
cheapest 1/4" lauan plywood
and tape on only once side
of the seams. Glass on only
the center of the bottom.
Polyester resin was cheaper.
!!!Well!!!
The gods put this 1/4" lauan to
the test yesterday. I store
the boat at the foot of a rock
cliff, and perhaps two tons
of boulders crashed down on
the boat overnight. Falling
20 feet, and exerting more
force on the boat by a
factor of 100x more than you
could ever expect to experience
in an accidental grounding.
The boat got crushed a bit, but
by and large held together fine.
No damage to the glassed
areas, or to the seams.
See photos at:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/roar/
Hi Charles,
I am about to turn my micro upright off its strongback for the first time,
having just finished glassing the bottom. I built with 1/4" marine Fir sides
and bulkheads, 1/2" marine fir bottom, glassing every exterior exposed
surface to avoid checking and preserve the wood, and epoxy coating all
interior surfaces. I would not want to build without the chine logs; as
Peter says, they really make building a snap, you can see what the
dimensions of the boat are as you set it up on the strongback, they keep the
bulkheads ridgidly aligned and give you a solid structure to clamp to while
you test-fit, you can climb around on top of it safely, etc. Besides you'll
hardly see the chine logs when the bunks are installed anyway! I added a
keelson which helps in securing the bottom and making it more rigid for very
little added weight; I'll be bolting my keel on like Peter did so it's a
necessary element. I'm impressed with how fast things have gone, and how
quick and easy it is to build a 'square' plywood boat after building curvy
strip canoes and kayaks - it's alot more like building a house, plumb and
level all bulkheads, make sure everything is lined up, symmetrical side to
side and parallel fore/aft, then throw the sides and bottom on. I went with
marine-grade stainless screws, but removed many of them along the chines
after the epoxy had set to allow me to use my router to trim and round-over
the chines; I kept screws and epoxy holding the bulkheads to the sides and
bottom. All are countersunk and will be filled in and glassed over, so I
expect no troubles with corrosion, especially since I have no plans for
mooring the boat.
Everyone who comes by has been quite impressed at how strong and stiff the
sides are for 1/4" ply, and I haven't even got the top on, installed bunks
or glassed the sides yet, all of which will add even more rigidity. I do
plan to put some extra stringers and either 3/8" or 1/2" decks on, my
brother is a big guy and is famous for 'break-testing' things I build. But I
think the boat is going to be quite stout built more or less to the plan's
scantlings, with the added fiberglass all around.
Paul Lefebvre, doing some serious garage-sailing on Cape Cod!
I am about to turn my micro upright off its strongback for the first time,
having just finished glassing the bottom. I built with 1/4" marine Fir sides
and bulkheads, 1/2" marine fir bottom, glassing every exterior exposed
surface to avoid checking and preserve the wood, and epoxy coating all
interior surfaces. I would not want to build without the chine logs; as
Peter says, they really make building a snap, you can see what the
dimensions of the boat are as you set it up on the strongback, they keep the
bulkheads ridgidly aligned and give you a solid structure to clamp to while
you test-fit, you can climb around on top of it safely, etc. Besides you'll
hardly see the chine logs when the bunks are installed anyway! I added a
keelson which helps in securing the bottom and making it more rigid for very
little added weight; I'll be bolting my keel on like Peter did so it's a
necessary element. I'm impressed with how fast things have gone, and how
quick and easy it is to build a 'square' plywood boat after building curvy
strip canoes and kayaks - it's alot more like building a house, plumb and
level all bulkheads, make sure everything is lined up, symmetrical side to
side and parallel fore/aft, then throw the sides and bottom on. I went with
marine-grade stainless screws, but removed many of them along the chines
after the epoxy had set to allow me to use my router to trim and round-over
the chines; I kept screws and epoxy holding the bulkheads to the sides and
bottom. All are countersunk and will be filled in and glassed over, so I
expect no troubles with corrosion, especially since I have no plans for
mooring the boat.
Everyone who comes by has been quite impressed at how strong and stiff the
sides are for 1/4" ply, and I haven't even got the top on, installed bunks
or glassed the sides yet, all of which will add even more rigidity. I do
plan to put some extra stringers and either 3/8" or 1/2" decks on, my
brother is a big guy and is famous for 'break-testing' things I build. But I
think the boat is going to be quite stout built more or less to the plan's
scantlings, with the added fiberglass all around.
Paul Lefebvre, doing some serious garage-sailing on Cape Cod!
Charles,
With a boat like the MICRO,with its dead flat panel
construction,the overall fairness of the assembly can be easily
checked by you while building her BUT before you actually hang the
panels by using the chine logs.If you are working alone and in short
spurts as time permits,then it will pay off in the long run to go
with chine logs besides,this makes it easy to go with a dry run
before final assembly to check(once again) for fairness.
Further to the above,I would also like to recommend the use of a
strong back or building jig.You will not regret the day you went this
route simply for the pleasure of having it all hang together
perfectly plumb and true while you keep busy with the various
building elements.
Having said that,perhaps you have a gang of eager helpers,more
epoxy then wood(or at least epoxy less expensive then wood in you
area) and better experience with stitch and glue then I have.In which
case,disregard my recommendations and go for it :-)
As for the question of less fastners......hmmmmm.....maybe a
question of personal choice.I like screws since I only own a couple
of dozen clamps and the screws allow me to assemble and walk away
without using up too many clamps! If you go with the lumber chine
logs and framing stock on the bulkheads do not forget to use the
AMAZING HOLLOW TRICK as found in the files section under "building
tips".It will keep epoxy waste down and where it belongs,in the joint!
Your plywood will do just fine and no need to glass inside unless you
do go the stitch and glue route.
Best of luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,MICRO fan/paramour par excellence......
With a boat like the MICRO,with its dead flat panel
construction,the overall fairness of the assembly can be easily
checked by you while building her BUT before you actually hang the
panels by using the chine logs.If you are working alone and in short
spurts as time permits,then it will pay off in the long run to go
with chine logs besides,this makes it easy to go with a dry run
before final assembly to check(once again) for fairness.
Further to the above,I would also like to recommend the use of a
strong back or building jig.You will not regret the day you went this
route simply for the pleasure of having it all hang together
perfectly plumb and true while you keep busy with the various
building elements.
Having said that,perhaps you have a gang of eager helpers,more
epoxy then wood(or at least epoxy less expensive then wood in you
area) and better experience with stitch and glue then I have.In which
case,disregard my recommendations and go for it :-)
As for the question of less fastners......hmmmmm.....maybe a
question of personal choice.I like screws since I only own a couple
of dozen clamps and the screws allow me to assemble and walk away
without using up too many clamps! If you go with the lumber chine
logs and framing stock on the bulkheads do not forget to use the
AMAZING HOLLOW TRICK as found in the files section under "building
tips".It will keep epoxy waste down and where it belongs,in the joint!
Your plywood will do just fine and no need to glass inside unless you
do go the stitch and glue route.
Best of luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,MICRO fan/paramour par excellence......
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
> Thanks for the interest, Peter. As to the plywood, I thinks it's
just
> run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it's
> glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
> thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside and
> bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?
> I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling, I'm
> getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metal
> fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
> tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine logs.
Is
> that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not comfortable
> with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 total on
> the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
>
Hi Derek,
What is your source for meranti? Are you in B.C. or Alberta?
Have one ton van - will travel:-)
Thanks, Nels
What is your source for meranti? Are you in B.C. or Alberta?
Have one ton van - will travel:-)
Thanks, Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> Two quick points, Charles. I don't know where you are located, but
here in
> Western Canada where they cut the Doug Fir, imported Meranti marine
ply can
> be had for less money than marine Fir. IMO the Meranti is much more
pleasant
> stuff to work with, and better made to boot.
>
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
much to heavy , Epoxy everything (twice ) what-ever the plans called
for I made it Thicker !!!!! And it stood on my drive way (nice and
dry ) for 90% of the time , Build them light , fast , have fun In
them , Steve Dandridge
> Thanks for the interest, Peter. As to the plywood, I thinks it'sjust
> run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it'sIs
> glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
> thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside and
> bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?
> I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling, I'm
> getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metal
> fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
> tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine logs.
> that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not comfortablereferencing
> with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 total on
> the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
>
> > Charles,
> > I am not familiar with the type of plywood you are
> > so can't comment there but I can say that the 3/8 dimension isgood
> > and if doubled on the bottom,even better.more
> > Something to keep in mind;are you building this boat to
> fulfill
> > the original design parameters?That is,basicly a cheap,quickly
> built
> > almost disposable sort of boat that won't break your heart if it
> all
> > falls apart after a few years. Or, are you seeking a somewhat
> > robust and long lived boat?to
> > If you want long life,then go all the way with the best you
> can
> > afford,epoxy well and glass at least the outside.Otherwise,stick
> > the plans and enjoy!Either way,she is not a difficult boat tobuild
> > and will perform just as well whether a "gold plater" or justI have to agree with Peter , I used to overbuild my first boats ,
> quickly
> > tossed together.
> > Good luck and take lots of pictures!
> > Sincerely,
> > Peter Lenihan
>
much to heavy , Epoxy everything (twice ) what-ever the plans called
for I made it Thicker !!!!! And it stood on my drive way (nice and
dry ) for 90% of the time , Build them light , fast , have fun In
them , Steve Dandridge
Two quick points, Charles. I don't know where you are located, but here in
Western Canada where they cut the Doug Fir, imported Meranti marine ply can
be had for less money than marine Fir. IMO the Meranti is much more pleasant
stuff to work with, and better made to boot.
If you increase the scantlings but keep the same bulkhead dimensions (the
easy way to do it) the additional wood is being added to the outside of the
boat. Net result is a fractionally larger boat which floats marginally
higher (wood being less dense than water, of course) - tougher _and_ more
'floaty' - the best of both worlds.
Cheers
Derek
Western Canada where they cut the Doug Fir, imported Meranti marine ply can
be had for less money than marine Fir. IMO the Meranti is much more pleasant
stuff to work with, and better made to boot.
If you increase the scantlings but keep the same bulkhead dimensions (the
easy way to do it) the additional wood is being added to the outside of the
boat. Net result is a fractionally larger boat which floats marginally
higher (wood being less dense than water, of course) - tougher _and_ more
'floaty' - the best of both worlds.
Cheers
Derek
Thanks for the interest, Peter. As to the plywood, I thinks it's just
run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it's
glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside and
bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?
I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling, I'm
getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metal
fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine logs. Is
that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not comfortable
with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 total on
the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
run of the mill Douglas Fir Marine. I assume it's O.K. if it's
glassed on the exterior, which I will do. As to the boat, I'm
thinking more "robust and long lived." I plan to seal the inside and
bulheads with epoxy, is there any advatage to interior fiberglass?
I've been reading about this, looking at pictures and drooling, I'm
getting that the experienced builders believe a minimum of metal
fasteners in the boat is better. I figure I can put the bottom on
tack and glue and substitue fiberglass fillets for the chine logs. Is
that crazy or practical? I'm sticking with 3/8, I'm not comfortable
with less. I plan to double the bottom, between 1/2 to 3/4 total on
the bottom. Thanks again. Charles
> Charles,fulfill
> I am not familiar with the type of plywood you are referencing
> so can't comment there but I can say that the 3/8 dimension is good
> and if doubled on the bottom,even better.
> Something to keep in mind;are you building this boat to
> the original design parameters?That is,basicly a cheap,quicklybuilt
> almost disposable sort of boat that won't break your heart if itall
> falls apart after a few years. Or, are you seeking a somewhat morecan
> robust and long lived boat?
> If you want long life,then go all the way with the best you
> afford,epoxy well and glass at least the outside.Otherwise,stick toquickly
> the plans and enjoy!Either way,she is not a difficult boat to build
> and will perform just as well whether a "gold plater" or just
> tossed together.
> Good luck and take lots of pictures!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan
>
Charles,
I am not familiar with the type of plywood you are referencing
so can't comment there but I can say that the 3/8 dimension is good
and if doubled on the bottom,even better.
Something to keep in mind;are you building this boat to fulfill
the original design parameters?That is,basicly a cheap,quickly built
almost disposable sort of boat that won't break your heart if it all
falls apart after a few years. Or, are you seeking a somewhat more
robust and long lived boat?
If you want long life,then go all the way with the best you can
afford,epoxy well and glass at least the outside.Otherwise,stick to
the plans and enjoy!Either way,she is not a difficult boat to build
and will perform just as well whether a "gold plater" or just quickly
tossed together.
Good luck and take lots of pictures!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
I am not familiar with the type of plywood you are referencing
so can't comment there but I can say that the 3/8 dimension is good
and if doubled on the bottom,even better.
Something to keep in mind;are you building this boat to fulfill
the original design parameters?That is,basicly a cheap,quickly built
almost disposable sort of boat that won't break your heart if it all
falls apart after a few years. Or, are you seeking a somewhat more
robust and long lived boat?
If you want long life,then go all the way with the best you can
afford,epoxy well and glass at least the outside.Otherwise,stick to
the plans and enjoy!Either way,she is not a difficult boat to build
and will perform just as well whether a "gold plater" or just quickly
tossed together.
Good luck and take lots of pictures!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- In bolger@y..., "zavalacat" <zavala@s...> wrote:
> I'm building a little practice boat out of lauan and plan to build a
> Micro. I just located a local source of Marine plywood. I plan to
> build the Micro mostly 3/8 douglas fir marine plywood. Question one,
> is 3/8 reasonable? Heavy? The plywood I saw today says Marine grade
> AB douglas fir. I looked at it, it does have some of those football
> shaped patches here and there. Is that O.K? I plan to glass the
whole
> outside. Thanks for the help. Charles
I'm building a little practice boat out of lauan and plan to build a
Micro. I just located a local source of Marine plywood. I plan to
build the Micro mostly 3/8 douglas fir marine plywood. Question one,
is 3/8 reasonable? Heavy? The plywood I saw today says Marine grade
AB douglas fir. I looked at it, it does have some of those football
shaped patches here and there. Is that O.K? I plan to glass the whole
outside. Thanks for the help. Charles
Micro. I just located a local source of Marine plywood. I plan to
build the Micro mostly 3/8 douglas fir marine plywood. Question one,
is 3/8 reasonable? Heavy? The plywood I saw today says Marine grade
AB douglas fir. I looked at it, it does have some of those football
shaped patches here and there. Is that O.K? I plan to glass the whole
outside. Thanks for the help. Charles
Another idea might be to use wood slats accross the
frame, held in place with pan screws or roves or
something. The slats would be stronger and lighter
and you could space them with some gaps which would
further reduce the weight and add ventilation for your
bedding. If it is just a berth, and you live near
comunities where fish net is sold, you might consider
lacing on net for the same sort of reasons, depending
on the stability of your frame.
--- George T Hilliker <hilliker@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Thanks for all your help. I am just replacing
rotten pieces from the pipe berths and bulkhead pieces
in an old "project" boat. There is no
hull integrity involved as the hull is FRP. I
think I will just use 5/8 AC fir ply and coat it<BR>
liberally with an oil based paint. - George
Hilliker<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
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frame, held in place with pan screws or roves or
something. The slats would be stronger and lighter
and you could space them with some gaps which would
further reduce the weight and add ventilation for your
bedding. If it is just a berth, and you live near
comunities where fish net is sold, you might consider
lacing on net for the same sort of reasons, depending
on the stability of your frame.
--- George T Hilliker <hilliker@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Thanks for all your help. I am just replacing
rotten pieces from the pipe berths and bulkhead pieces
in an old "project" boat. There is no
hull integrity involved as the hull is FRP. I
think I will just use 5/8 AC fir ply and coat it<BR>
liberally with an oil based paint. - George
Hilliker<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
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</br>
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Latex might hold up better, though indoors it is
probably a moot point.
--- George T Hilliker <hilliker@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Thanks for all your help. I am just replacing
rotten pieces from the pipe berths and bulkhead pieces
in an old "project" boat. There is no
hull integrity involved as the hull is FRP. I
think I will just use 5/8 AC fir ply and coat it<BR>
liberally with an oil based paint. - George
Hilliker<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
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probably a moot point.
--- George T Hilliker <hilliker@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Thanks for all your help. I am just replacing
rotten pieces from the pipe berths and bulkhead pieces
in an old "project" boat. There is no
hull integrity involved as the hull is FRP. I
think I will just use 5/8 AC fir ply and coat it<BR>
liberally with an oil based paint. - George
Hilliker<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
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</br>
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_______________________________________________________
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Thanks for all your help. I am just replacing rotten pieces from the pipe berths and bulkhead pieces in an old "project" boat. There is no hull integrity involved as the hull is FRP. I think I will just use 5/8 AC fir ply and coat it
liberally with an oil based paint. - George Hilliker
liberally with an oil based paint. - George Hilliker
One thing you can be generally sure of is that the AC
isn't as good as marine plywood, so the question is
whether that matters. It matters for resale, sometime
durability, and sometimes structure. There is also
the question of what is the rest of the boat made of.
If you are making up your own mind, then you have to
have some basis for doing so, so a little design
knowledge, while possibly occasionally a dangerous
thing, would be helpful.
There are a lot of places in boats where the plywood
planking is really pretty understressed, so it can be
a minor structural issue. Think of the PCB boat
bottoms where the buildup is for wear or ballast.
--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
George:<BR>
<BR>
You will probably get a lot of confliction opinions on
this one, but here is mine: I have yet to think enough
of my abilities (or my bank account) to use marine ply
on a boat - six so far. To repair a bulkhead, I
would use lumber yard Douglas Fir, or MDO if I could
find them. If the boat is heavy already, use
pine.<BR>
<BR>
Chuck<BR>
<BR>
Folks...<BR>
<BR>
A plywood question... Will lumber yard
(Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior
bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and
buying exotic plywood seems like a waste..
George Hillikerhilliker@...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
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- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
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_______________________________________________________
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isn't as good as marine plywood, so the question is
whether that matters. It matters for resale, sometime
durability, and sometimes structure. There is also
the question of what is the rest of the boat made of.
If you are making up your own mind, then you have to
have some basis for doing so, so a little design
knowledge, while possibly occasionally a dangerous
thing, would be helpful.
There are a lot of places in boats where the plywood
planking is really pretty understressed, so it can be
a minor structural issue. Think of the PCB boat
bottoms where the buildup is for wear or ballast.
--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
George:<BR>
<BR>
You will probably get a lot of confliction opinions on
this one, but here is mine: I have yet to think enough
of my abilities (or my bank account) to use marine ply
on a boat - six so far. To repair a bulkhead, I
would use lumber yard Douglas Fir, or MDO if I could
find them. If the boat is heavy already, use
pine.<BR>
<BR>
Chuck<BR>
<BR>
Folks...<BR>
<BR>
A plywood question... Will lumber yard
(Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior
bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and
buying exotic plywood seems like a waste..
George Hillikerhilliker@...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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<td align=center><font size="-1"
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There's a good article on plywood in this month's (Dec.) issue
of "Wooden Boat." It discusses why Doug Fir Marine Ply isn't what it
used to be, also the pros and cons of okume and luan. Worth a read.
of "Wooden Boat." It discusses why Doug Fir Marine Ply isn't what it
used to be, also the pros and cons of okume and luan. Worth a read.
George:
You will probably get a lot of confliction opinions on this one, but here is mine: I have yet to think enough of my abilities (or my bank account) to use marine ply on a boat - six so far. To repair a bulkhead, I would use lumber yard Douglas Fir, or MDO if I could find them. If the boat is heavy already, use pine.
Chuck
Folks...
A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying exotic plywood seems like a waste.. George Hillikerhilliker@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You will probably get a lot of confliction opinions on this one, but here is mine: I have yet to think enough of my abilities (or my bank account) to use marine ply on a boat - six so far. To repair a bulkhead, I would use lumber yard Douglas Fir, or MDO if I could find them. If the boat is heavy already, use pine.
Chuck
Folks...
A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying exotic plywood seems like a waste.. George Hillikerhilliker@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001jmbell@...wrote:
Basically, I've decided to scale up a Teal to 21-22 feet, nip off a part
of the stern to make a modest transom, and replace the sailing rig with a
cuddy cabin and 5hp Nissan OB in a well. I'll steal the well design from
Chapelle's One Sail Camp Boat.
I made a model of it--again, mostly just a scaled-up Teal. It looks
great, and floats great. It's 21.5 feet long, with a 6ft beam, with
Teal's modest 15 degree (constant) flare.
I, like Bolger, really like the long and narrow boat, and I also like
displacement power boats a lot over planing ones. We put a 1.2hp Tanaka
on the Teal and motored around a couple of times. Aside from the noise
(which was very bad), it was a great little motor boat for two adults.
We had a lot of fun with it.
The Teal is built "instant" fashion, and so will this one. However,
she'll be beefed up a bit here and there, using information on scantlings
from D. Gerr's "Elements of Boat Strength".
If I can remember to, I will take a photo of the model. I learned that
models are in some ways harder to build than boats--1/8th inch error means
a lot more when 1"=1'.
The boat will be called the "Chico Mendes" (pronounced SHE-coe MEN-dayz,
after the Brazilian rubber-tapper/ecologist/target of political
assassination). The design name, maybe the "Anhinga". A real swamp
turkey.
> Whatcha building, Chris?It's a boat that has no design name as yet, because it's mine.
> I will agree with you on MDO. It's great stuff.
Basically, I've decided to scale up a Teal to 21-22 feet, nip off a part
of the stern to make a modest transom, and replace the sailing rig with a
cuddy cabin and 5hp Nissan OB in a well. I'll steal the well design from
Chapelle's One Sail Camp Boat.
I made a model of it--again, mostly just a scaled-up Teal. It looks
great, and floats great. It's 21.5 feet long, with a 6ft beam, with
Teal's modest 15 degree (constant) flare.
I, like Bolger, really like the long and narrow boat, and I also like
displacement power boats a lot over planing ones. We put a 1.2hp Tanaka
on the Teal and motored around a couple of times. Aside from the noise
(which was very bad), it was a great little motor boat for two adults.
We had a lot of fun with it.
The Teal is built "instant" fashion, and so will this one. However,
she'll be beefed up a bit here and there, using information on scantlings
from D. Gerr's "Elements of Boat Strength".
If I can remember to, I will take a photo of the model. I learned that
models are in some ways harder to build than boats--1/8th inch error means
a lot more when 1"=1'.
The boat will be called the "Chico Mendes" (pronounced SHE-coe MEN-dayz,
after the Brazilian rubber-tapper/ecologist/target of political
assassination). The design name, maybe the "Anhinga". A real swamp
turkey.
Whatcha building, Chris?
I will agree with you on MDO. It's great stuff.
JB
I will agree with you on MDO. It's great stuff.
JB
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, George T Hilliker wrote:
> > A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work
for
> > interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying
> > exotic plywood seems like a waste.
>
> I agree. Keep in mind that the finish is an issue, though. It's
not a
> waste to buy very nice plywood, if the ACX requires 5-10 hours of
> finishing (plus a few materials $$$'s) to make it look nice.
>
> But there's nothing to worry about, using ACX for bulkheads.
> I'm using MDO right now for a boat I'm building, and it's great
stuff.
> I got it "special order" from my lumberyard--don't have to worry
about the
> level of finish--smooth as glass.
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, George T Hilliker wrote:
waste to buy very nice plywood, if the ACX requires 5-10 hours of
finishing (plus a few materials $$$'s) to make it look nice.
But there's nothing to worry about, using ACX for bulkheads.
I'm using MDO right now for a boat I'm building, and it's great stuff.
I got it "special order" from my lumberyard--don't have to worry about the
level of finish--smooth as glass.
> A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work forI agree. Keep in mind that the finish is an issue, though. It's not a
> interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying
> exotic plywood seems like a waste.
waste to buy very nice plywood, if the ACX requires 5-10 hours of
finishing (plus a few materials $$$'s) to make it look nice.
But there's nothing to worry about, using ACX for bulkheads.
I'm using MDO right now for a boat I'm building, and it's great stuff.
I got it "special order" from my lumberyard--don't have to worry about the
level of finish--smooth as glass.
Folks...
A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying exotic plywood seems like a waste.. George Hillikerhilliker@...
A plywood question... Will lumber yard (Home Depot) 5/8 A/C work for interior bulkheads? I am doing some wood replacement and buying exotic plywood seems like a waste.. George Hillikerhilliker@...
Try Noah's at www.noahsmarine.com
Jim Stumpf
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Stumpf
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
More important, how do you _say_ it. Does anyone else here feel like buying
the stuff mail-order just to avoid walking into the local plywood store,
asking for "awkoom" (or whatever you think it should sound like) and only
getting blank looks from the sales staff?
the stuff mail-order just to avoid walking into the local plywood store,
asking for "awkoom" (or whatever you think it should sound like) and only
getting blank looks from the sales staff?
On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 18:32:46 -0000, Porky wrote:
> ...
> BTW, what is the proper spelling, if any, of this wood?
> I've seen Occume, Okoume, Ocome, Okkuome and a few other
> derivations...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
<William Burroughs>
Hi David,
Thanks for the Noah reference. They seem at this reading to be the least expensive yet for the three
sheets of Okoume that I need. Neat to see the first quote I got of about 300 dollars come down to
Noah's $126 plus shipping etc. from Buffalo, NY to Cambridge, MA.
Jim
david galvin wrote:
Thanks for the Noah reference. They seem at this reading to be the least expensive yet for the three
sheets of Okoume that I need. Neat to see the first quote I got of about 300 dollars come down to
Noah's $126 plus shipping etc. from Buffalo, NY to Cambridge, MA.
Jim
david galvin wrote:
> James,
>
> Noah's <http://www.noahsmarine.com/> offers BS6566 Okoume in 6mm for
> US$42 and BS1088 Okoume for US$55. They have a warehouse in Buffalo,
> NY, if you want to drive there and save the shipping. The latest
> price list I got from M.L.Condon (January 2000) quotes a price of
> $78.40 for Occume. M.L.Condon is in eastern New York, just north of
> NYC: M.L.Condon, 250 Ferris Avenue, White Plains, NY 10603, 914-946-
> 4111, no web page or Email that I know of.
>
> BTW, what is the proper spelling, if any, of this wood?
> I've seen Occume, Okoume, Ocome, Okkuome and a few other
> derivations...
>
> porky
>
> --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for
> 6mm
> > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
> stuff?
> >
> > Jim
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi Pete,
Yes, apparently there is. My plywood info source tells me that there are many different variations of
Meranti. He says that the word itself is sort of a Pacific rim slang for whatever happens to be the
local version of a mahogany type wood. He has Meranti in stock that is very heavy, a dark sap filled
wood and has sheets that are almost white in color. Very light he says.
For boatbuilding he offered me three choices; fir at $19, Okoume at $69, and a rose colored exotic at
$89 per sheet. Those three would weather well, he says, and require much less maintenance than any of
the Meranti variations that he has in stock. The fir has only three laminations, the Okoume and the
rose five. Fancy furniture should be made of the rose according to him.
Thanks for the response.
Jim
Pete Hodges wrote:
Yes, apparently there is. My plywood info source tells me that there are many different variations of
Meranti. He says that the word itself is sort of a Pacific rim slang for whatever happens to be the
local version of a mahogany type wood. He has Meranti in stock that is very heavy, a dark sap filled
wood and has sheets that are almost white in color. Very light he says.
For boatbuilding he offered me three choices; fir at $19, Okoume at $69, and a rose colored exotic at
$89 per sheet. Those three would weather well, he says, and require much less maintenance than any of
the Meranti variations that he has in stock. The fir has only three laminations, the Okoume and the
rose five. Fancy furniture should be made of the rose according to him.
Thanks for the response.
Jim
Pete Hodges wrote:
> Is there a reason you would want Okoume over Meranti?
>
> Try
>http://us.f134.mail.yahoo.com/ym/login?.rand=34ar83j1sl5kh
> for both.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, david galvin wrote:
It's translated from a language without the same letters.
It's like all the various spellings of Russian names.
-Chris
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> BTW, what is the proper spelling, if any, of this wood? I've seenThey're equally correct, or perhaps, correct enough.
> Occume, Okoume, Ocome, Okkuome and a few other derivations...
It's translated from a language without the same letters.
It's like all the various spellings of Russian names.
-Chris
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Is there a reason you would want Okoume over Meranti?
Try
http://us.f134.mail.yahoo.com/ym/login?.rand=34ar83j1sl5kh
for both.
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James,
Noah's <http://www.noahsmarine.com/> offers BS6566 Okoume in 6mm for
US$42 and BS1088 Okoume for US$55. They have a warehouse in Buffalo,
NY, if you want to drive there and save the shipping. The latest
price list I got from M.L.Condon (January 2000) quotes a price of
$78.40 for Occume. M.L.Condon is in eastern New York, just north of
NYC: M.L.Condon, 250 Ferris Avenue, White Plains, NY 10603, 914-946-
4111, no web page or Email that I know of.
BTW, what is the proper spelling, if any, of this wood?
I've seen Occume, Okoume, Ocome, Okkuome and a few other
derivations...
porky
Noah's <http://www.noahsmarine.com/> offers BS6566 Okoume in 6mm for
US$42 and BS1088 Okoume for US$55. They have a warehouse in Buffalo,
NY, if you want to drive there and save the shipping. The latest
price list I got from M.L.Condon (January 2000) quotes a price of
$78.40 for Occume. M.L.Condon is in eastern New York, just north of
NYC: M.L.Condon, 250 Ferris Avenue, White Plains, NY 10603, 914-946-
4111, no web page or Email that I know of.
BTW, what is the proper spelling, if any, of this wood?
I've seen Occume, Okoume, Ocome, Okkuome and a few other
derivations...
porky
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Hi,
> Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for
6mm
> Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
stuff?
>
> Jim
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
Roberts Plywood, Brentwood NY, Maine Coast Lumber, York ME. Or try ML
Condon, White Plains, NY. I've used Meranti it is heavier but good
quality. I don't know what you are building but you can get long
lengths from some firms which can be a help.
Bob Chamberland
> Hi,6mm
> Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for
> Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.stuff?
> How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
>Try Harbor Sales near Baltimore. Shelmarine Plywood available from
> Jim
Roberts Plywood, Brentwood NY, Maine Coast Lumber, York ME. Or try ML
Condon, White Plains, NY. I've used Meranti it is heavier but good
quality. I don't know what you are building but you can get long
lengths from some firms which can be a help.
Bob Chamberland
1/2". Haven't weighed it, but it's only about 1/2" the weight of a
1/2" piece of BC pine.
1/2" piece of BC pine.
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> How thick is it and how much does it weigh? 1/4" Occume plywood is
> very light but I wouldn't use it in my model airplanes.
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > I was working under the assumption they wouldn't be trying to
charge
> > hime $100 a sheet for 1/4" marine.....
> >
> > Probably a bad assumption.
> >
> > The MDO I have is very light.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., jmbell@m... wrote:
> > > Good idea, but one potential problem. The thinnest MDO I've
ever
> > seen
> > > is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight
of
> > > the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
> > >
> > > JB
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > > > Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the
price
> > of
> > > > Okoume.
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per
> sheet
> > > for
> > > > 6mm
> > > > > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > > > > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price
for
> > the
> > > > stuff?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
Seems a bit high to me. Where are you? Does that include shipping?
For small orders, the shipping is often almost as much as the wood.
I bought 6mm BS1088 Meranti 5-ply locally in Minnesota (Lake Elmo
Hardwoods) for $28/sheet. Meranti is substantially heavier and
stronger than Okoume, though, so it may not be the best for your
application.
Keith Wilson
For small orders, the shipping is often almost as much as the wood.
I bought 6mm BS1088 Meranti 5-ply locally in Minnesota (Lake Elmo
Hardwoods) for $28/sheet. Meranti is substantially heavier and
stronger than Okoume, though, so it may not be the best for your
application.
Keith Wilson
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Bolter Plywood just quoted me $69 per sheet for 6mm
> Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
stuff?
How thick is it and how much does it weigh? 1/4" Occume plywood is
very light but I wouldn't use it in my model airplanes.
very light but I wouldn't use it in my model airplanes.
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> I was working under the assumption they wouldn't be trying to charge
> hime $100 a sheet for 1/4" marine.....
>
> Probably a bad assumption.
>
> The MDO I have is very light.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., jmbell@m... wrote:
> > Good idea, but one potential problem. The thinnest MDO I've ever
> seen
> > is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight of
> > the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
> >
> > JB
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > > Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the price
> of
> > > Okoume.
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per
sheet
> > for
> > > 6mm
> > > > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > > > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for
> the
> > > stuff?
> > > >
> > > > Jim
I was working under the assumption they wouldn't be trying to charge
hime $100 a sheet for 1/4" marine.....
Probably a bad assumption.
The MDO I have is very light.
hime $100 a sheet for 1/4" marine.....
Probably a bad assumption.
The MDO I have is very light.
--- In bolger@y..., jmbell@m... wrote:
> Good idea, but one potential problem. The thinnest MDO I've ever
seen
> is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight of
> the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
>
> JB
>
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the price
of
> > Okoume.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet
> for
> > 6mm
> > > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for
the
> > stuff?
> > >
> > > Jim
Jim,
Are you sure you don't want to use Meranti (which I think is a high
quality form of luan if I'm not mistaken)? If this is for a Brick
project, ours weighs about 75lbs with luan (but only 3 ply, the extra
glue will add a little). As I recall, the Meranti was considerably
cheaper when I checked a couple of years ago. Of course the occume
will be even lighter. I think if I was making a Brick and I wanted to
save weight I might glue and tape the bottom on to get rid of the wide
chine logs. I remember a price on occume like the one you're quoting
from more than one source back then, but I didn't do an exhaustive
search.
Are you sure you don't want to use Meranti (which I think is a high
quality form of luan if I'm not mistaken)? If this is for a Brick
project, ours weighs about 75lbs with luan (but only 3 ply, the extra
glue will add a little). As I recall, the Meranti was considerably
cheaper when I checked a couple of years ago. Of course the occume
will be even lighter. I think if I was making a Brick and I wanted to
save weight I might glue and tape the bottom on to get rid of the wide
chine logs. I remember a price on occume like the one you're quoting
from more than one source back then, but I didn't do an exhaustive
search.
--- In bolger@y..., jmbell@m... wrote:
> Good idea, but one potential problem. The thinnest MDO I've ever
seen
> is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight of
> the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
>
> JB
>
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the price of
> > Okoume.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet
> for
> > 6mm
> > > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for
the
> > stuff?
> > >
> > > Jim
Good idea, but one potential problem. The thinnest MDO I've ever seen
is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight of
the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
JB
is 3/8" or approximately 9mm. If you can stand the added weight of
the heavier 9mm stuff, MDO is an option.
JB
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the price of
> Okoume.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet
for
> 6mm
> > Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> > How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
> stuff?
> >
> > Jim
Use MDO, the type with paper on both sides. About 1/3 the price of
Okoume.
Okoume.
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Hi,
> Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for
6mm
> Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
> How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the
stuff?
>
> Jim
Hi,
Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for 6mm
Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the stuff?
Jim
Bolter Plywood in Somerville Mass. just quoted me $69 per sheet for 6mm
Okoume FOB Boston. Someone else was asking over $100.
How does this compare? Does anyone know of a better price for the stuff?
Jim
I was offered 1/4" mahogany plywood by a local lumber
yard at $10 per sheet! I took a look at it, and it was
beautiful, on both sides. But it was three ply, the
outer(mahogany) layers thin as toilet paper, the inner
layer was garbage, looked like chip board.
A long time ago I had a similar experience with
luan, except that I boght it, cut out a whole Nymph, and
it went "pop pop pop" and delaminated shortly asfter I
bent the panels into place.
Beware!
Bill Wallace in Texas
yard at $10 per sheet! I took a look at it, and it was
beautiful, on both sides. But it was three ply, the
outer(mahogany) layers thin as toilet paper, the inner
layer was garbage, looked like chip board.
A long time ago I had a similar experience with
luan, except that I boght it, cut out a whole Nymph, and
it went "pop pop pop" and delaminated shortly asfter I
bent the panels into place.
Beware!
Bill Wallace in Texas
Finally my schedule has eased up enough to allow me to order the plywood for
my incipient Micro. On Friday, I expect to receive 9 sheets 3/8" and 4
sheets of 1/2"MDO two sided. I had originally planned to do the whole boat
out of 3/8" but PCB advised 1/2" for the bottom. The cost of all this wood
works out to ~$510 from a local source.
Hopefully, I'll be granted some time in between all the Holy Week events to
make some sawdust. More to come. I can hardly wait!
(Stan M., I have not forgotten you... I'd like to come out in early June, if
that works for you)
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
.
my incipient Micro. On Friday, I expect to receive 9 sheets 3/8" and 4
sheets of 1/2"MDO two sided. I had originally planned to do the whole boat
out of 3/8" but PCB advised 1/2" for the bottom. The cost of all this wood
works out to ~$510 from a local source.
Hopefully, I'll be granted some time in between all the Holy Week events to
make some sawdust. More to come. I can hardly wait!
(Stan M., I have not forgotten you... I'd like to come out in early June, if
that works for you)
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
.
Just ordered luan plywood
1/4 $21Aus
1/2 $33Aus
This is the cheepest I could find.
--
Jim Stein
http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000
Campus Manager Echuca Campus
Bendigo Regional Institute of TAFE
Lat. 36.08S Lon. 144.45E
Dudley Pope Mailing List mailto:dudleypope@onelist.com
To Subscribehttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/dudleypope
1/4 $21Aus
1/2 $33Aus
This is the cheepest I could find.
--
Jim Stein
http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000
Campus Manager Echuca Campus
Bendigo Regional Institute of TAFE
Lat. 36.08S Lon. 144.45E
Dudley Pope Mailing List mailto:dudleypope@onelist.com
To Subscribehttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/dudleypope