Re: [bolger] Re:foam installation
What I had in mind was re-plumbing the device to underneath the driver's seat and wiring it to the airbags.
Mike
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Lenihan<mailto:peterlenihan@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:07 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re:foam installation
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>, "Michael Kline" <kura1in2@m<mailto:kura1in2@m>...> wrote:
> Peter and John,
>
> I recommend something like the South African solution -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm><http://news.bbc.co<http://news.bbc.co/>
.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm>
>
> Mike Kline
>
That is a grand idea/invention Mike. The only problem is that it
does not properly address the folks we were talking about.Namely,the
big nut behind the wheel.
Nevertheless,the gas-flame device is neat.I am disturbed however by
the bleeding hearts,in the article,who appear more concerned about
the highjackers well being then the victims potential ordeal.
Now,what we really really need is a nifty device that we can install
on our Bolger boats to address the idiot boaters out there yet
remain"perfectly legal"......
Sincerely,
Peter,getting too far off topic,Lenihan
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/>
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Kline" <kura1in2@m...> wrote:
.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm>
does not properly address the folks we were talking about.Namely,the
big nut behind the wheel.
Nevertheless,the gas-flame device is neat.I am disturbed however by
the bleeding hearts,in the article,who appear more concerned about
the highjackers well being then the victims potential ordeal.
Now,what we really really need is a nifty device that we can install
on our Bolger boats to address the idiot boaters out there yet
remain"perfectly legal"......
Sincerely,
Peter,getting too far off topic,Lenihan
> Peter and John,http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm<http://news.bbc.co
>
> I recommend something like the South African solution -
.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm>
>That is a grand idea/invention Mike. The only problem is that it
> Mike Kline
>
does not properly address the folks we were talking about.Namely,the
big nut behind the wheel.
Nevertheless,the gas-flame device is neat.I am disturbed however by
the bleeding hearts,in the article,who appear more concerned about
the highjackers well being then the victims potential ordeal.
Now,what we really really need is a nifty device that we can install
on our Bolger boats to address the idiot boaters out there yet
remain"perfectly legal"......
Sincerely,
Peter,getting too far off topic,Lenihan
Peter and John,
I recommend something like the South African solution -http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm>
Mike Kline
I recommend something like the South African solution -http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232777.stm>
Mike Kline
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Lenihan<mailto:peterlenihan@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 11:56 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re:foam installation
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w<mailto:John.Trussell@w>...> wrote:
> If only we could get car manufacturers to install a 12 ga shotgun
shell full of buckshot in each steering column, set to go of on
impact, everyone would drive more carefully and the surviving
drivers would be really, really careful.
>
> John T
LOL!!! If they can install air bags it can't be too hard to go the
gun barrel route.I would recommend a double barrel,just to make sure
we don't miss......
Peter Lenihan
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/>
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
impact, everyone would drive more carefully and the surviving
drivers would be really, really careful.
gun barrel route.I would recommend a double barrel,just to make sure
we don't miss......
Peter Lenihan
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> If only we could get car manufacturers to install a 12 ga shotgunshell full of buckshot in each steering column, set to go of on
impact, everyone would drive more carefully and the surviving
drivers would be really, really careful.
>LOL!!! If they can install air bags it can't be too hard to go the
> John T
gun barrel route.I would recommend a double barrel,just to make sure
we don't miss......
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@y...> wrote:
complete process for the Darwin Awards competition.No higher service
can one man give to his fellow man then to volentarily take himself
out of the gene pool and by the looks of things,there is no pressing
shortage of our species for replacements.......
Peter Lenihan
> I think they're planning on something similar for aMore places should do that also.Then we would see a more robust and
> street in London - trouble is that from experience of
> driving a delivery lorry in Leicester
> Square(pedestrianised)London pedestrians have no sense
> of self preservation
> Cheers
> Andy Airey
complete process for the Darwin Awards competition.No higher service
can one man give to his fellow man then to volentarily take himself
out of the gene pool and by the looks of things,there is no pressing
shortage of our species for replacements.......
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> I wonder how insurance companies view such an approach?Whazzat"insurance companies" ?
>
> Bill
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@y...> wrote:
right side of the street too! Now that would prove interesting:-)
Now how does this connect to foam installion you ask? Well each
vehicle would be encapsulated in 50 cm thick foam which would also
advance the acceptance of the Universal Measuring System.
The pedestrians of course would all have to wear bicycle helmets and
life vests to survive getting pitched into potholes.
If it were in Canada where we strive not to upset people too much we
would pass the law that you drive on the right on odd-numbered days
only for the first year.
Except on weeks were there is a civic holiday or in areas where the
Imperial System has been grand fathered.
Cheers, Nels
> I think they're planning on something similar for aThis might be a good opportunity to change over to driving on the
> street in London - trouble is that from experience of
> driving a delivery lorry in Leicester
> Square(pedestrianised)London pedestrians have no sense
> of self preservation
> Cheers
> Andy Airey
>
right side of the street too! Now that would prove interesting:-)
Now how does this connect to foam installion you ask? Well each
vehicle would be encapsulated in 50 cm thick foam which would also
advance the acceptance of the Universal Measuring System.
The pedestrians of course would all have to wear bicycle helmets and
life vests to survive getting pitched into potholes.
If it were in Canada where we strive not to upset people too much we
would pass the law that you drive on the right on odd-numbered days
only for the first year.
Except on weeks were there is a civic holiday or in areas where the
Imperial System has been grand fathered.
Cheers, Nels
If only we could get car manufacturers to install a 12 ga shotgun shell full of buckshot in each steering column, set to go of on impact, everyone would drive more carefully and the surviving drivers would be really, really careful.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: ANDREW AIREY
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re:foam installation
I think they're planning on something similar for a
street in London - trouble is that from experience of
driving a delivery lorry in Leicester
Square(pedestrianised)London pedestrians have no sense
of self preservation
Cheers
Andy Airey
Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Interesting approach! The same one has been used for
the past year or so in a town in Friesland, where they
removed all road markings and traffic signs - so
everybody drives with great care - cars give way to
pedestrians and so on. The only fly in their ointment
is that the Dutch cyclists still zoom around like they
own the place (which they probably do)! Even so,
accidents have fallen to almost zero.
I wonder how insurance companies view such an
approach?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
document.write('');
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think they're planning on something similar for a
street in London - trouble is that from experience of
driving a delivery lorry in Leicester
Square(pedestrianised)London pedestrians have no sense
of self preservation
Cheers
Andy Airey
Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Interesting approach! The same one has been used for
the past year or so in a town in Friesland, where they
removed all road markings and traffic signs - so
everybody drives with great care - cars give way to
pedestrians and so on. The only fly in their ointment
is that the Dutch cyclists still zoom around like they
own the place (which they probably do)! Even so,
accidents have fallen to almost zero.
I wonder how insurance companies view such an
approach?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
document.write('');
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
street in London - trouble is that from experience of
driving a delivery lorry in Leicester
Square(pedestrianised)London pedestrians have no sense
of self preservation
Cheers
Andy Airey
Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Interesting approach! The same one has been used for
the past year or so in a town in Friesland, where they
removed all road markings and traffic signs - so
everybody drives with great care - cars give way to
pedestrians and so on. The only fly in their ointment
is that the Dutch cyclists still zoom around like they
own the place (which they probably do)! Even so,
accidents have fallen to almost zero.
I wonder how insurance companies view such an
approach?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
document.write('');
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>sometimes,and only sometimes forInteresting approach! The same one has been used for the past year or so in a town in Friesland, where they removed all road markings and traffic signs - so everybody drives with great care - cars give way to pedestrians and so on. The only fly in their ointment is that the Dutch cyclists still zoom around like they own the place (which they probably do)! Even so, accidents have fallen to almost zero.
>some folks,foam floatation,like bicyle helmets, can instill a sense
>of security leading to,or encouraging, a sort of recklessness.
>On the other hand,no added foam or bicyle helmet discourages
>complacency and rather inspires applied thought and attention to
>both activities.
I wonder how insurance companies view such an approach?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "saillips" <saillips@c...> wrote:
then wood,your wooden boat will float all by itself.Birdwatchers
would appear to be tough boats to ever get into serious trouble with
anyway,unless you want to go trans ocean or just leave your brain at
home and take a light lunch instead.
It has been my observation that sometimes,and only sometimes for
some folks,foam floatation,like bicyle helmets, can instill a sense
of security leading to,or encouraging, a sort of recklessness.
On the other hand,no added foam or bicyle helmet discourages
complacency and rather inspires applied thought and attention to
both activities.
That was one of the prime reasons why I chose to not put the per
plan foam floatation on board LESTAT(my much missed/loved Micro).It
certainly worked for me and kept my wits about too despite virtually
non-stop hydration therapy :-)
Your feelings on this will certainly vary and that is perfectly
alright. The point I am trying to make is to not get too caught up
with the details....:-)
Enjoy building and good luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.....
>ply
> Good Morning, Regarding the lost volume of flotation, my exterior
> is 3/8" instead of 1/4", and my interior is 3/16" instead of 1/8".1/16"
> This adds roughly 20 pounds per fully constructed side, and is
> less thickness than the plans. So I have ALMOST the same volumein a
> flotation in the sides, but it must now support the extra 20 lbs
> flooding situation.And never forget,unless you are building out of some material other
then wood,your wooden boat will float all by itself.Birdwatchers
would appear to be tough boats to ever get into serious trouble with
anyway,unless you want to go trans ocean or just leave your brain at
home and take a light lunch instead.
It has been my observation that sometimes,and only sometimes for
some folks,foam floatation,like bicyle helmets, can instill a sense
of security leading to,or encouraging, a sort of recklessness.
On the other hand,no added foam or bicyle helmet discourages
complacency and rather inspires applied thought and attention to
both activities.
That was one of the prime reasons why I chose to not put the per
plan foam floatation on board LESTAT(my much missed/loved Micro).It
certainly worked for me and kept my wits about too despite virtually
non-stop hydration therapy :-)
Your feelings on this will certainly vary and that is perfectly
alright. The point I am trying to make is to not get too caught up
with the details....:-)
Enjoy building and good luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.....
Ooops hit the wrong button there!
http://tinyurl.com/5d39f
Copies of the posts I am referring to are in the links section on
this group.
Cheers, Nels
http://tinyurl.com/5d39f
Copies of the posts I am referring to are in the links section on
this group.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> >> I think he *very* much respects that the builder has the
ultimate
> right to
> > make decisions, even stupid decisions.
>
> Maybe not an opinion always shared by one of his "friends".
>
> Always elightening to read these earlier posts regarding
> design "improvements" to an AS29:-)
>
>
>
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Always elightening to read these earlier posts regarding
design "improvements" to an AS29:-)
Cheers, Nels
>> I think he *very* much respects that the builder has the ultimateright to
> make decisions, even stupid decisions.Maybe not an opinion always shared by one of his "friends".
Always elightening to read these earlier posts regarding
design "improvements" to an AS29:-)
Cheers, Nels
marilyn lipsey wrote:
side, smear the plywood on the inside with something that goes off a
little faster than the 5200 - say a real slow mix of slightly thickened
epoxy, and use a simple vacuum bagging process, sucked by a strong
vacuum cleaner's input.
Run it until the epoxy goes off, peel off the polypropylene sheeting,
this time smear the foam with the epoxy. Lay on the inside plywood.
Cover it with a new sheet of poly and suck the ply down tight onto the
foam. Let it kick and you're done. Roll the boat over the other way,
repeat, and that should do it.
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Another option which might work would be to, as you say, roll her on her
>
> Cool, I am curious about the process of laminating the
> insulation to the sides, bottom, top?...
>
>
side, smear the plywood on the inside with something that goes off a
little faster than the 5200 - say a real slow mix of slightly thickened
epoxy, and use a simple vacuum bagging process, sucked by a strong
vacuum cleaner's input.
Run it until the epoxy goes off, peel off the polypropylene sheeting,
this time smear the foam with the epoxy. Lay on the inside plywood.
Cover it with a new sheet of poly and suck the ply down tight onto the
foam. Let it kick and you're done. Roll the boat over the other way,
repeat, and that should do it.
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I meant to add that Mr. Bolger encourages innovation so long as thereI sent Bolger a list of the dozen or so changes I made to his Micro
> is a sensible functionality behind it. He gets really upset when...
> Cheers, Nels
Navigator design, and he wrote back a thoughtful letter, saying he liked
some of the changes and saying that he though that some others
were not 'improvements', and he pointed out hidden consequences which
I had not foreseen. [The lenghthed roof hatch might foul the boom
vang, etc..] I didn't get any sense of him being "really upset" about anything.
I think he *very* much respects that the builder has the ultimate right to
make decisions, even stupid decisions.
Hi David,
I meant to add that Mr. Bolger encourages innovation so long as there
is a sensible functionality behind it. He gets really upset when
somebody makes changes to the design based on "what they think might
look or work better", or based on somebody's passing opinion with no
real understanding of why the design is the way it is.
Bolger often starts with a clean sheet of paper and a list of
requirements, then figures out the most efficient way to fulfill
these requirements and bring everything into a state of symbiosis.
Therefor the long-time "traditional concepts" of boat design may not
apply. He is not the least bit intimidated to question many of the
sacred cows of boat construction and design, while at the same time
confirming the ones that actually have stood the test of time.
He then removes anything that is not essential, rather than add
little tidbits that might look nice. If he does the later he
apologizes - like he did with the One Person Liveaboard when he added
the doghouse. Which is one of the nicest I have ever seen:-)
He encourages the use of available materials and most of his designs
are more the result of function and ultimate safety rather than form
that appears as "acceptable" to the traditionalist. So do not
hesitate to inform him of any changes so long as you also include the
reason. If they are major, enquire ahead of time. Either way it will
be a valuable experience for you.
Same with Dynamite Payson. The guy is like a zen buddhist. You give
him a big long explanation and rationalization and get a two word
response back. Either, "Should work" or "Won't work" or maybe
even "Why not?"
These guys are pricelss resouces for boatbuilding and a philosophy
for life:-)
Cheers, Nels
I meant to add that Mr. Bolger encourages innovation so long as there
is a sensible functionality behind it. He gets really upset when
somebody makes changes to the design based on "what they think might
look or work better", or based on somebody's passing opinion with no
real understanding of why the design is the way it is.
Bolger often starts with a clean sheet of paper and a list of
requirements, then figures out the most efficient way to fulfill
these requirements and bring everything into a state of symbiosis.
Therefor the long-time "traditional concepts" of boat design may not
apply. He is not the least bit intimidated to question many of the
sacred cows of boat construction and design, while at the same time
confirming the ones that actually have stood the test of time.
He then removes anything that is not essential, rather than add
little tidbits that might look nice. If he does the later he
apologizes - like he did with the One Person Liveaboard when he added
the doghouse. Which is one of the nicest I have ever seen:-)
He encourages the use of available materials and most of his designs
are more the result of function and ultimate safety rather than form
that appears as "acceptable" to the traditionalist. So do not
hesitate to inform him of any changes so long as you also include the
reason. If they are major, enquire ahead of time. Either way it will
be a valuable experience for you.
Same with Dynamite Payson. The guy is like a zen buddhist. You give
him a big long explanation and rationalization and get a two word
response back. Either, "Should work" or "Won't work" or maybe
even "Why not?"
These guys are pricelss resouces for boatbuilding and a philosophy
for life:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "saillips" <saillips@c...> wrote:
>
> Good Morning, Regarding the lost volume of flotation, my exterior
ply
> is 3/8" instead of 1/4", and my interior is 3/16" instead of 1/8".
> This adds roughly 20 pounds per fully constructed side, and is
1/16"
> less thickness than the plans. So I have ALMOST the same volume
> flotation in the sides, but it must now support the extra 20 lbs in
a
> flooding situation.
Hi David,
I would agree with Gene on this. Adding extra floatation to the sole
seems counter-intuitive to me. In my opinion, making it a fetish to
insure the hatches are locked down in bad weather is the most prudent
requirement. Keep the heavy stuff as low as possible in the hull,
floatation as high as possible, is what makes a boat stay on it's
feet. It then becomes dynamically unstable when inverted.
Cheers, Nels
I would agree with Gene on this. Adding extra floatation to the sole
seems counter-intuitive to me. In my opinion, making it a fetish to
insure the hatches are locked down in bad weather is the most prudent
requirement. Keep the heavy stuff as low as possible in the hull,
floatation as high as possible, is what makes a boat stay on it's
feet. It then becomes dynamically unstable when inverted.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "saillips" <saillips@c...> wrote:
>
> Good Morning, Regarding the lost volume of flotation, my exterior
ply
> is 3/8" instead of 1/4", and my interior is 3/16" instead of 1/8".
> This adds roughly 20 pounds per fully constructed side, and is
1/16"
> less thickness than the plans. So I have ALMOST the same volume
> flotation in the sides, but it must now support the extra 20 lbs in
a
> flooding situation. I plan on using 2 layers of 3/4" foam on the
> sole, which takes up a bit of headroom, but I end up with not quite
1
> cubic foot more of flotation than in the plans, though as you point
> out, it would tend to want to hold the bottom up more. My topside
> longitudinals will be 1-1/2" square, which is as per plans, so in
the
> solid deck areas of the top sides, there will be 1-1/2" of foam up
> there, too. I've said this before, but I strongly believe that I am
> totally resposible for the consequences of my changes. Just as I am
> of the school of thought that if you push off to cross an ocean,
then
> you are resposible for the outcome, good or bad, and shouldn't put
> anyone else at risk by expecting a rescue if it all goes down the
> drain (so to speak).
> Cheers, David
Good Morning, Regarding the lost volume of flotation, my exterior ply
is 3/8" instead of 1/4", and my interior is 3/16" instead of 1/8".
This adds roughly 20 pounds per fully constructed side, and is 1/16"
less thickness than the plans. So I have ALMOST the same volume
flotation in the sides, but it must now support the extra 20 lbs in a
flooding situation. I plan on using 2 layers of 3/4" foam on the
sole, which takes up a bit of headroom, but I end up with not quite 1
cubic foot more of flotation than in the plans, though as you point
out, it would tend to want to hold the bottom up more. My topside
longitudinals will be 1-1/2" square, which is as per plans, so in the
solid deck areas of the top sides, there will be 1-1/2" of foam up
there, too. I've said this before, but I strongly believe that I am
totally resposible for the consequences of my changes. Just as I am
of the school of thought that if you push off to cross an ocean, then
you are resposible for the outcome, good or bad, and shouldn't put
anyone else at risk by expecting a rescue if it all goes down the
drain (so to speak).
Cheers, David
is 3/8" instead of 1/4", and my interior is 3/16" instead of 1/8".
This adds roughly 20 pounds per fully constructed side, and is 1/16"
less thickness than the plans. So I have ALMOST the same volume
flotation in the sides, but it must now support the extra 20 lbs in a
flooding situation. I plan on using 2 layers of 3/4" foam on the
sole, which takes up a bit of headroom, but I end up with not quite 1
cubic foot more of flotation than in the plans, though as you point
out, it would tend to want to hold the bottom up more. My topside
longitudinals will be 1-1/2" square, which is as per plans, so in the
solid deck areas of the top sides, there will be 1-1/2" of foam up
there, too. I've said this before, but I strongly believe that I am
totally resposible for the consequences of my changes. Just as I am
of the school of thought that if you push off to cross an ocean, then
you are resposible for the outcome, good or bad, and shouldn't put
anyone else at risk by expecting a rescue if it all goes down the
drain (so to speak).
Cheers, David
David,
Thank you for the rammble! Although you would need to
replace flotation capability, you could just leave the
foam lamination out. It would result in more sweating
in cool water on humid days though.
Not sure what group it was in but not long ago there
was an extensive discussion about moisture collection
behind imperfectly glued foam resulting in rot. Very
pessemistec thread. Due to that discussion, I might
prefer to put in stringers floor to window with the
foam between them then screw the inner ply on the
stringers. Thus is is easily removed for checking and
recoating of the inner hull surface. It may also be
possible to allow ventillation behind the foam when
the boat is out of the water. Glue the foam to the
inner ply and with proper stringer selection it need
not touch the outer hull.
Were you doubling the foam on the "floor". (yeah,
what is it in a boat, sole?) If the boat does flood
then you have a lot of buoyancy on the bottom, heavy
water above, could cause it to float funny, worst case
inverted.
I have the BW II plans but I'm not sure if I want to
sit like that in my cruiser. Currently building a
Single Handed Schooner. That will be my sitting on
the floor boat. I have a Jochems Schooner floating
around in my head right now. That would be my
cruiser. But then there are some Welsford boats and
on and on....
Gene T.
--- marilyn lipsey <saillips@...> wrote:
Thank you for the rammble! Although you would need to
replace flotation capability, you could just leave the
foam lamination out. It would result in more sweating
in cool water on humid days though.
Not sure what group it was in but not long ago there
was an extensive discussion about moisture collection
behind imperfectly glued foam resulting in rot. Very
pessemistec thread. Due to that discussion, I might
prefer to put in stringers floor to window with the
foam between them then screw the inner ply on the
stringers. Thus is is easily removed for checking and
recoating of the inner hull surface. It may also be
possible to allow ventillation behind the foam when
the boat is out of the water. Glue the foam to the
inner ply and with proper stringer selection it need
not touch the outer hull.
Were you doubling the foam on the "floor". (yeah,
what is it in a boat, sole?) If the boat does flood
then you have a lot of buoyancy on the bottom, heavy
water above, could cause it to float funny, worst case
inverted.
I have the BW II plans but I'm not sure if I want to
sit like that in my cruiser. Currently building a
Single Handed Schooner. That will be my sitting on
the floor boat. I have a Jochems Schooner floating
around in my head right now. That would be my
cruiser. But then there are some Welsford boats and
on and on....
Gene T.
--- marilyn lipsey <saillips@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Cool, I am curious about the process of laminating
> the
> insulation to the sides, bottom, top?...
>
> Yeah, me too!!! I'm repeating myself a bit, but I
> ordered the plans for BW2
> after reading the article in Wooden Boat last summer
> by Mason Smith ,the
> Adirondack Goodboat guy, who will build a BW1 for
> $15K US, or a BW2 for $17K
> US. He bought the original BW1 and wrote a wonderful
> article extolling her
> virtures and simplicity. I had no idea, based on the
> one page by Bolger
> about BW2, that BW2 was such a signifcant evolution
> of the first generation.
> I had no idea it was foam cored. I was in a
> quick-and-simple,
> down-and-dirty, Godzilla-school-of-boatbuilding mind
> set. I wanted to knock
> it out a la the Instant Boat way and go sailing
> quickly (this is my 3rd
> Bolger boat to build). So when the plans arrived, my
> plans were thrown for a
> loop. Mr Bolger has drawn 1" foam in the sides and
> bottom, sandwiched
> between the 2 layers of ply. I'm going with 3/4" on
> the sides, and
> (probably) 2 layers of 3/4" on the bottom. For the
> most part, this is the
> aftermath of my previously mentioned mental
> momentum. The other reason is I
> was trying to use a bunch of material I had on hand.
> I haven't corresponded
> to PCB&F about the changes because of shame and
> embaressment. As I said to
> Nels, nothing must annoy, irritate, and just plain
> piss-off a designer more
> than to draw up a set of perfectly good plans, and
> have some amateur builder
> muck about with them.
> Finally to answer your question. I'm using the pink
> extruded foam from my
> local Home Depot. I removed the thin plastic
> sheeting from both sides. I
> won't use epoxy for the actual install. I'll seal
> the interior of the hull
> sides with epoxy, and glue the foam in with a
> waterproof mastic that stays
> flexable after curing. My first thought was 3M 5200,
> applied in large, close
> "S"s, then evenly distributed with a notched trowel.
> I don't want to use
> epoxy because it seems to me from my experience that
> the epoxy is to hard
> and brittle to absorb the (anticipated) flexing, and
> or impacts of boat
> use. Also, I think the 5200 will adhere more
> tenaciously without the need to
> rough up the surface of the foam. I forget the
> gentlemans name ( Nels knows)
> who built a BW1 with a fiberglass hull with Airex
> foam , but he simply
> rolled the boat on its side, and put sand bags
> (paper bags at that!) on the
> foam to hold it in place until set. I will do
> likewise. Then of course come
> the interior panels.
> If I had built a BW1, I'd be done and sailing by
> now. As is, with my own
> self-imposed deadline passed, I'm glad to be
> building the BW2. It truely is
> a much improved boat in terms of safety, comfort,
> and performance.
> Sorry for the ramble. David
>
>
Cool, I am curious about the process of laminating the
insulation to the sides, bottom, top?...
Yeah, me too!!! I'm repeating myself a bit, but I ordered the plans for BW2
after reading the article in Wooden Boat last summer by Mason Smith ,the
Adirondack Goodboat guy, who will build a BW1 for $15K US, or a BW2 for $17K
US. He bought the original BW1 and wrote a wonderful article extolling her
virtures and simplicity. I had no idea, based on the one page by Bolger
about BW2, that BW2 was such a signifcant evolution of the first generation.
I had no idea it was foam cored. I was in a quick-and-simple,
down-and-dirty, Godzilla-school-of-boatbuilding mind set. I wanted to knock
it out a la the Instant Boat way and go sailing quickly (this is my 3rd
Bolger boat to build). So when the plans arrived, my plans were thrown for a
loop. Mr Bolger has drawn 1" foam in the sides and bottom, sandwiched
between the 2 layers of ply. I'm going with 3/4" on the sides, and
(probably) 2 layers of 3/4" on the bottom. For the most part, this is the
aftermath of my previously mentioned mental momentum. The other reason is I
was trying to use a bunch of material I had on hand. I haven't corresponded
to PCB&F about the changes because of shame and embaressment. As I said to
Nels, nothing must annoy, irritate, and just plain piss-off a designer more
than to draw up a set of perfectly good plans, and have some amateur builder
muck about with them.
Finally to answer your question. I'm using the pink extruded foam from my
local Home Depot. I removed the thin plastic sheeting from both sides. I
won't use epoxy for the actual install. I'll seal the interior of the hull
sides with epoxy, and glue the foam in with a waterproof mastic that stays
flexable after curing. My first thought was 3M 5200, applied in large, close
"S"s, then evenly distributed with a notched trowel. I don't want to use
epoxy because it seems to me from my experience that the epoxy is to hard
and brittle to absorb the (anticipated) flexing, and or impacts of boat
use. Also, I think the 5200 will adhere more tenaciously without the need to
rough up the surface of the foam. I forget the gentlemans name ( Nels knows)
who built a BW1 with a fiberglass hull with Airex foam , but he simply
rolled the boat on its side, and put sand bags (paper bags at that!) on the
foam to hold it in place until set. I will do likewise. Then of course come
the interior panels.
If I had built a BW1, I'd be done and sailing by now. As is, with my own
self-imposed deadline passed, I'm glad to be building the BW2. It truely is
a much improved boat in terms of safety, comfort, and performance.
Sorry for the ramble. David
insulation to the sides, bottom, top?...
Yeah, me too!!! I'm repeating myself a bit, but I ordered the plans for BW2
after reading the article in Wooden Boat last summer by Mason Smith ,the
Adirondack Goodboat guy, who will build a BW1 for $15K US, or a BW2 for $17K
US. He bought the original BW1 and wrote a wonderful article extolling her
virtures and simplicity. I had no idea, based on the one page by Bolger
about BW2, that BW2 was such a signifcant evolution of the first generation.
I had no idea it was foam cored. I was in a quick-and-simple,
down-and-dirty, Godzilla-school-of-boatbuilding mind set. I wanted to knock
it out a la the Instant Boat way and go sailing quickly (this is my 3rd
Bolger boat to build). So when the plans arrived, my plans were thrown for a
loop. Mr Bolger has drawn 1" foam in the sides and bottom, sandwiched
between the 2 layers of ply. I'm going with 3/4" on the sides, and
(probably) 2 layers of 3/4" on the bottom. For the most part, this is the
aftermath of my previously mentioned mental momentum. The other reason is I
was trying to use a bunch of material I had on hand. I haven't corresponded
to PCB&F about the changes because of shame and embaressment. As I said to
Nels, nothing must annoy, irritate, and just plain piss-off a designer more
than to draw up a set of perfectly good plans, and have some amateur builder
muck about with them.
Finally to answer your question. I'm using the pink extruded foam from my
local Home Depot. I removed the thin plastic sheeting from both sides. I
won't use epoxy for the actual install. I'll seal the interior of the hull
sides with epoxy, and glue the foam in with a waterproof mastic that stays
flexable after curing. My first thought was 3M 5200, applied in large, close
"S"s, then evenly distributed with a notched trowel. I don't want to use
epoxy because it seems to me from my experience that the epoxy is to hard
and brittle to absorb the (anticipated) flexing, and or impacts of boat
use. Also, I think the 5200 will adhere more tenaciously without the need to
rough up the surface of the foam. I forget the gentlemans name ( Nels knows)
who built a BW1 with a fiberglass hull with Airex foam , but he simply
rolled the boat on its side, and put sand bags (paper bags at that!) on the
foam to hold it in place until set. I will do likewise. Then of course come
the interior panels.
If I had built a BW1, I'd be done and sailing by now. As is, with my own
self-imposed deadline passed, I'm glad to be building the BW2. It truely is
a much improved boat in terms of safety, comfort, and performance.
Sorry for the ramble. David