Re: [bolger] Staysail vs RC Models
thanks Derek, I do have the Book .
Claudio
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:
Along wit hthe original 31 foot design, the CorSair 24 is discussed in BWAOM
chapter 30 "Staysail cat". A few more drawings than those already posted by
Bruce, and a note on sailing reports; "extremely nice... no bad
habits...great speed..."
cheers
Derek
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Claudio
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:
Along wit hthe original 31 foot design, the CorSair 24 is discussed in BWAOM
chapter 30 "Staysail cat". A few more drawings than those already posted by
Bruce, and a note on sailing reports; "extremely nice... no bad
habits...great speed..."
cheers
Derek
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Along wit hthe original 31 foot design, the CorSair 24 is discussed in BWAOM
chapter 30 "Staysail cat". A few more drawings than those already posted by
Bruce, and a note on sailing reports; "extremely nice... no bad
habits...great speed..."
cheers
Derek
chapter 30 "Staysail cat". A few more drawings than those already posted by
Bruce, and a note on sailing reports; "extremely nice... no bad
habits...great speed..."
cheers
Derek
Bruce I have seen it in the same book of Bolger
Thanks anyhow
Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
smaller than the 30 footer. I know of it only from
reading the obsolete "Common Sense" catalogue.
Different in several ways, smaller of course, but also
relatively wider, and with a 'wishbone' boom.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Corsair/
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Thanks anyhow
Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an OpenFor what it is worth, there is another Bolger Staysail racer,
> Mind.
> Claudio
smaller than the 30 footer. I know of it only from
reading the obsolete "Common Sense" catalogue.
Different in several ways, smaller of course, but also
relatively wider, and with a 'wishbone' boom.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Corsair/
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> the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an OpenFor what it is worth, there is another Bolger Staysail racer,
> Mind.
> Claudio
smaller than the 30 footer. I know of it only from
reading the obsolete "Common Sense" catalogue.
Different in several ways, smaller of course, but also
relatively wider, and with a 'wishbone' boom.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Corsair/
Bravo !! really clever
Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
Using Gregg Carlsons 'hulls' program, it only
takes about an hour to input the shape of a
boat, and print the expanded panels on to
paperboard, cut with sissors, tape it together,
and voila!
The bottom of the fin in my model is just a
piece of cardboard that I taped in place to
allow the boat model to stand up on the table.
The 'real boat' wouldn't have that. <grin>
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Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> Thanks Bruce for the photos, thereforeActually it didn't exist until I made it yesterday.
>this model exist already but not understood
>the bottom of the fin.
> Claudio
Using Gregg Carlsons 'hulls' program, it only
takes about an hour to input the shape of a
boat, and print the expanded panels on to
paperboard, cut with sissors, tape it together,
and voila!
The bottom of the fin in my model is just a
piece of cardboard that I taped in place to
allow the boat model to stand up on the table.
The 'real boat' wouldn't have that. <grin>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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> Thanks Bruce for the photos, thereforeActually it didn't exist until I made it yesterday.
>this model exist already but not understood
>the bottom of the fin.
> Claudio
Using Gregg Carlsons 'hulls' program, it only
takes about an hour to input the shape of a
boat, and print the expanded panels on to
paperboard, cut with sissors, tape it together,
and voila!
The bottom of the fin in my model is just a
piece of cardboard that I taped in place to
allow the boat model to stand up on the table.
The 'real boat' wouldn't have that. <grin>
Thanks Bruce for the photos, therefore this model exist already but not understood the bottom of the fin.
Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
...shows my experimentation with the 'box girder' of a hull
of a Bolger Staysail Daysailer.
I imagine that this boat could be achieved ultra cheaply.
The ballast could be made from a torpedo shaped piece
of concrete. The mast could be a tree trunk. The hull
pieced together from CDX plywood, with an air nail gun
and Home Depot 2x4 chines. The backstays could be
made from welded up 'rebar' reinforcing steel bars.
Chainplates fabricated from 1/4" mile steel plate.
The forestay would be cable, with the one turnbuckle.
The sail would be sewn from Tyvek construction cloth,
with the logos intact of course.
Whole thing, less than $1,000. Would put a scare
into some sailboats costing 100X more.
Bolger rules!!!
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- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Claudio
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>Experimentation is cheap; have fun.http://community.webshots.com/album/276427017ZCUGGU
>
> John T
...shows my experimentation with the 'box girder' of a hull
of a Bolger Staysail Daysailer.
I imagine that this boat could be achieved ultra cheaply.
The ballast could be made from a torpedo shaped piece
of concrete. The mast could be a tree trunk. The hull
pieced together from CDX plywood, with an air nail gun
and Home Depot 2x4 chines. The backstays could be
made from welded up 'rebar' reinforcing steel bars.
Chainplates fabricated from 1/4" mile steel plate.
The forestay would be cable, with the one turnbuckle.
The sail would be sewn from Tyvek construction cloth,
with the logos intact of course.
Whole thing, less than $1,000. Would put a scare
into some sailboats costing 100X more.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>Experimentation is cheap; have fun.http://community.webshots.com/album/276427017ZCUGGU
>
> John T
...shows my experimentation with the 'box girder' of a hull
of a Bolger Staysail Daysailer.
I imagine that this boat could be achieved ultra cheaply.
The ballast could be made from a torpedo shaped piece
of concrete. The mast could be a tree trunk. The hull
pieced together from CDX plywood, with an air nail gun
and Home Depot 2x4 chines. The backstays could be
made from welded up 'rebar' reinforcing steel bars.
Chainplates fabricated from 1/4" mile steel plate.
The forestay would be cable, with the one turnbuckle.
The sail would be sewn from Tyvek construction cloth,
with the logos intact of course.
Whole thing, less than $1,000. Would put a scare
into some sailboats costing 100X more.
Does that need for a tight, straight, headstay arise from aerodynamics or
from the cut of the sail?
The forces are far lower if some sag is permitted (catenary anyone?). Has
anyone experimented with a "jib" cut with a negative roach in the leading
edge?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
from the cut of the sail?
The forces are far lower if some sag is permitted (catenary anyone?). Has
anyone experimented with a "jib" cut with a negative roach in the leading
edge?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...>
The problem with full sized staysail boats is that it is necessary to keep
the forestay/leading edge of the sail as tight/straight as possible (which
is the same problem you get into with modern sloop/cutter designs). To keep
the forestay tight, you need to keep the backstay tight. By tightening the
backstay and the forestay, you are either trying to pull the ends of the
boat up or pushing the mast down through the center of the boat. The
original Corsair was shaped the way it was, at least in part, to form a
rigid (fore and aft) hull which could withstand the forces imposed by the
rig.
MAIB is a bi-monthly magazine more formally known as "Messing About in Boats"
The problem with full sized staysail boats is that it is necessary to keep the forestay/leading edge of the sail as tight/straight as possible (which is the same problem you get into with modern sloop/cutter designs). To keep the forestay tight, you need to keep the backstay tight. By tightening the backstay and the forestay, you are either trying to pull the ends of the boat up or pushing the mast down through the center of the boat. The original Corsair was shaped the way it was, at least in part, to form a rigid (fore and aft) hull which could withstand the forces imposed by the rig.
The stresses imposed by a staysail rig increase with the size of the boat. It should be fairly easy to build a rigid model boat hull in any configuration you choose. One advantage of model boats is that you can experiment with little expense. Do you want the form stability of a shallow, wide hull or the ballast stability of a narrow, deep heavily ballasted hull? I suspect either has its advantages, but I couldn't begin to guess which would be superior. Experimentation is cheap; have fun.
John T
The problem with full sized staysail boats is that it is necessary to keep the forestay/leading edge of the sail as tight/straight as possible (which is the same problem you get into with modern sloop/cutter designs). To keep the forestay tight, you need to keep the backstay tight. By tightening the backstay and the forestay, you are either trying to pull the ends of the boat up or pushing the mast down through the center of the boat. The original Corsair was shaped the way it was, at least in part, to form a rigid (fore and aft) hull which could withstand the forces imposed by the rig.
The stresses imposed by a staysail rig increase with the size of the boat. It should be fairly easy to build a rigid model boat hull in any configuration you choose. One advantage of model boats is that you can experiment with little expense. Do you want the form stability of a shallow, wide hull or the ballast stability of a narrow, deep heavily ballasted hull? I suspect either has its advantages, but I couldn't begin to guess which would be superior. Experimentation is cheap; have fun.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: diolaiti claudio
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Staysail vs RC Models
Thank you John
for the answer. Being in France I do not knows what is MAIB.
The Staysail boat was discovered in the PCB's book "Boats wiht an Open Mind" ; in the article appear the picture of the Corsair 24 build in 1994. The design is a revival of the trial made "successfully" in 1922 by by Nick Montgomery and Harry Friend both friends of PCB.
The project was mainly abandoned because espensive and structurally difficult to make.
PCB is not, nevetheless, definitively clear on the real reasons of abbandon.
His point of view could be interesting in the process of medelling this unique design.
One of my questions refers to the hull main section "narrow and deep" or "wide and shallow" ?
Does, in fact, this type of rig requires more initial Hull Stabilty than others ?
Best regards
Claudio
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
I build full sized boats and while I'm vaguely aware that there are different model classes, I have no expertise.
I note thet the latest edition of MAIB has a picture of a staysail model; if you can get a copy, you may be able to contact the builder.
I also note that PCB wrote that at times, the staysail boat would perform very well upwind, but that it was not possible to duplicate this performance consistently. Since an RC skipper doesn't have any "feel" for the boat and must input control based on visual cues, a staysail rig might not be the best choice. Again, this is all speculation on my part.
Good luck.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: diolaiticlaudio
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: [bolger] Staysail vs RC Models
gentlemens I refresh my question erroneously send to another forum.
My intention is to develop a new class of RC navi models based upon
the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an Open
Mind.
I would appreciate reply to my principal E-Mail:diolaiti@...
Here the text : (probably a repetition)
Good Morning,
I'm a new member.
I would like to knows if some one has already constructed an RC Model
that is based upon the Staysail Cat of Ph.C. Bolger.
My intention is to try to bild an Radio controlled model keeping the
specifications of the Marblehead Class Rules in termes of lenght and
sail surface. (1.30mt and 0.5161m²)
Any suggestions are welcomed,
Thank you very much.
Best regards
Claudio
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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good morning Bruce,
in RC models we use miniature turnbuckles and S/S multi cables from
0.4 to 1 mm section. The plan of Staysail Cat is printed in the PCB
book "Boats with an Open Mind". Probably I will use a Snipe plan
adapted for the purpose.
Bye
Claudio
.
in RC models we use miniature turnbuckles and S/S multi cables from
0.4 to 1 mm section. The plan of Staysail Cat is printed in the PCB
book "Boats with an Open Mind". Probably I will use a Snipe plan
adapted for the purpose.
Bye
Claudio
.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > The Staysail boat... by Nick Montgomery and Harry Friend both
friends of PCB.
>
> I recall reading a classified advertisement from about ten years
ago where
> this boat was for sale.
>
> > His point of view could be interesting in the process of
medelling this unique design.
>
> It is all jib and no mainsail.
>
> > One of my questions refers to the hull main section "narrow and
deep" or "wide and shallow" ?
> > Does, in fact, this type of rig requires more initial Hull
Stabilty than others ?
>
> Probably not is my guess.
>
> The stern transom needs to be wide enough to hold a decent width to
the
> wire stays, to give the mast stability.
>
> I am curious, in model building, what you use for turnbucles for
the stays?
>
> The wire stays need to be in tension, to hold the luff of the jib
tight.
>
> I think building a working model of this boat would be a very
interesting,
> and relatively cheap way, to gain a better understanding of the
boat.
> You may or may not win any races, but it would still be a worthwhile
> experiment.
> The Staysail boat... by Nick Montgomery and Harry Friend both friends of PCB.I recall reading a classified advertisement from about ten years ago where
this boat was for sale.
> His point of view could be interesting in the process of medelling this unique design.It is all jib and no mainsail.
> One of my questions refers to the hull main section "narrow and deep" or "wide and shallow" ?Probably not is my guess.
> Does, in fact, this type of rig requires more initial Hull Stabilty than others ?
The stern transom needs to be wide enough to hold a decent width to the
wire stays, to give the mast stability.
I am curious, in model building, what you use for turnbucles for the stays?
The wire stays need to be in tension, to hold the luff of the jib tight.
I think building a working model of this boat would be a very interesting,
and relatively cheap way, to gain a better understanding of the boat.
You may or may not win any races, but it would still be a worthwhile
experiment.
Thank you John
for the answer. Being in France I do not knows what is MAIB.
The Staysail boat was discovered in the PCB's book "Boats wiht an Open Mind" ; in the article appear the picture of the Corsair 24 build in 1994. The design is a revival of the trial made "successfully" in 1922 by by Nick Montgomery and Harry Friend both friends of PCB.
The project was mainly abandoned because espensive and structurally difficult to make.
PCB is not, nevetheless, definitively clear on the real reasons of abbandon.
His point of view could be interesting in the process of medelling this unique design.
One of my questions refers to the hull main section "narrow and deep" or "wide and shallow" ?
Does, in fact, this type of rig requires more initial Hull Stabilty than others ?
Best regards
Claudio
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
I build full sized boats and while I'm vaguely aware that there are different model classes, I have no expertise.
I note thet the latest edition of MAIB has a picture of a staysail model; if you can get a copy, you may be able to contact the builder.
I also note that PCB wrote that at times, the staysail boat would perform very well upwind, but that it was not possible to duplicate this performance consistently. Since an RC skipper doesn't have any "feel" for the boat and must input control based on visual cues, a staysail rig might not be the best choice. Again, this is all speculation on my part.
Good luck.
John T
for the answer. Being in France I do not knows what is MAIB.
The Staysail boat was discovered in the PCB's book "Boats wiht an Open Mind" ; in the article appear the picture of the Corsair 24 build in 1994. The design is a revival of the trial made "successfully" in 1922 by by Nick Montgomery and Harry Friend both friends of PCB.
The project was mainly abandoned because espensive and structurally difficult to make.
PCB is not, nevetheless, definitively clear on the real reasons of abbandon.
His point of view could be interesting in the process of medelling this unique design.
One of my questions refers to the hull main section "narrow and deep" or "wide and shallow" ?
Does, in fact, this type of rig requires more initial Hull Stabilty than others ?
Best regards
Claudio
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
I build full sized boats and while I'm vaguely aware that there are different model classes, I have no expertise.
I note thet the latest edition of MAIB has a picture of a staysail model; if you can get a copy, you may be able to contact the builder.
I also note that PCB wrote that at times, the staysail boat would perform very well upwind, but that it was not possible to duplicate this performance consistently. Since an RC skipper doesn't have any "feel" for the boat and must input control based on visual cues, a staysail rig might not be the best choice. Again, this is all speculation on my part.
Good luck.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: diolaiticlaudio
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: [bolger] Staysail vs RC Models
gentlemens I refresh my question erroneously send to another forum.
My intention is to develop a new class of RC navi models based upon
the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an Open
Mind.
I would appreciate reply to my principal E-Mail:diolaiti@...
Here the text : (probably a repetition)
Good Morning,
I'm a new member.
I would like to knows if some one has already constructed an RC Model
that is based upon the Staysail Cat of Ph.C. Bolger.
My intention is to try to bild an Radio controlled model keeping the
specifications of the Marblehead Class Rules in termes of lenght and
sail surface. (1.30mt and 0.5161m²)
Any suggestions are welcomed,
Thank you very much.
Best regards
Claudio
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I build full sized boats and while I'm vaguely aware that there are different model classes, I have no expertise.
I note thet the latest edition of MAIB has a picture of a staysail model; if you can get a copy, you may be able to contact the builder.
I also note that PCB wrote that at times, the staysail boat would perform very well upwind, but that it was not possible to duplicate this performance consistently. Since an RC skipper doesn't have any "feel" for the boat and must input control based on visual cues, a staysail rig might not be the best choice. Again, this is all speculation on my part.
Good luck.
John T
I note thet the latest edition of MAIB has a picture of a staysail model; if you can get a copy, you may be able to contact the builder.
I also note that PCB wrote that at times, the staysail boat would perform very well upwind, but that it was not possible to duplicate this performance consistently. Since an RC skipper doesn't have any "feel" for the boat and must input control based on visual cues, a staysail rig might not be the best choice. Again, this is all speculation on my part.
Good luck.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: diolaiticlaudio
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: [bolger] Staysail vs RC Models
gentlemens I refresh my question erroneously send to another forum.
My intention is to develop a new class of RC navi models based upon
the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an Open
Mind.
I would appreciate reply to my principal E-Mail:diolaiti@...
Here the text : (probably a repetition)
Good Morning,
I'm a new member.
I would like to knows if some one has already constructed an RC Model
that is based upon the Staysail Cat of Ph.C. Bolger.
My intention is to try to bild an Radio controlled model keeping the
specifications of the Marblehead Class Rules in termes of lenght and
sail surface. (1.30mt and 0.5161m²)
Any suggestions are welcomed,
Thank you very much.
Best regards
Claudio
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gentlemens I refresh my question erroneously send to another forum.
My intention is to develop a new class of RC navi models based upon
the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an Open
Mind.
I would appreciate reply to my principal E-Mail:diolaiti@...
Here the text : (probably a repetition)
Good Morning,
I'm a new member.
I would like to knows if some one has already constructed an RC Model
that is based upon the Staysail Cat of Ph.C. Bolger.
My intention is to try to bild an Radio controlled model keeping the
specifications of the Marblehead Class Rules in termes of lenght and
sail surface. (1.30mt and 0.5161m²)
Any suggestions are welcomed,
Thank you very much.
Best regards
Claudio
My intention is to develop a new class of RC navi models based upon
the Ph. C. Bolger staysail Cat published on the "Boats with an Open
Mind.
I would appreciate reply to my principal E-Mail:diolaiti@...
Here the text : (probably a repetition)
Good Morning,
I'm a new member.
I would like to knows if some one has already constructed an RC Model
that is based upon the Staysail Cat of Ph.C. Bolger.
My intention is to try to bild an Radio controlled model keeping the
specifications of the Marblehead Class Rules in termes of lenght and
sail surface. (1.30mt and 0.5161m²)
Any suggestions are welcomed,
Thank you very much.
Best regards
Claudio