Re: Lexan Source info
Got the latest All Electronics catalog in the mail today and page 92
features 9"x7"x0.20" clear Lexan panels for $2 each or 10 for $1.75
each. Good size, decent thickness, papered both sides.
You folks doing windows would know if this is cheap or not but it
sounds pretty good.
"Attention, Lexan Shoppers...."
Dave
features 9"x7"x0.20" clear Lexan panels for $2 each or 10 for $1.75
each. Good size, decent thickness, papered both sides.
You folks doing windows would know if this is cheap or not but it
sounds pretty good.
"Attention, Lexan Shoppers...."
Dave
Hi Nels,
Thanks!
I'll have to go back and read that shore power article. I know what you mean
about the high prices of panels. I keep a lookout on eBay for better prices.
So far, I have been very happy with my eBay purchases.
take care!
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
Thanks!
I'll have to go back and read that shore power article. I know what you mean
about the high prices of panels. I keep a lookout on eBay for better prices.
So far, I have been very happy with my eBay purchases.
take care!
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
They sure did. I just spent the day on an 8.3 and it is totally different
than the 10.7. As you say, the Plexiglas is on the inside, with countersunk
screws holding it in place, of all things! We removed one of the windows and
found it was caulked with silicone sealant. the sealant bond had failed
against the Plexiglas, allowing the water to enter.
I was amazed at the thickness of the cabin wall, a full 1/4" thicker than
the larger 10.7. then I realized that there was a layer of 1/4" plywood
bonded to the inner skin of the cabin side. Much of this had rotted from
leaks.
The owner wanted a quick(er) and inexpensive way to fix the problem, so he
is goring to replace the rotted wood with epoxy coated ply and replace the
Plexiglas on the inside. I suggested either 3M101 or LifeSeal instead of
silicone for the sealant. If it was my boat and I planned on keeping it for
a few years, I would put the windows on the outside.
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
than the 10.7. As you say, the Plexiglas is on the inside, with countersunk
screws holding it in place, of all things! We removed one of the windows and
found it was caulked with silicone sealant. the sealant bond had failed
against the Plexiglas, allowing the water to enter.
I was amazed at the thickness of the cabin wall, a full 1/4" thicker than
the larger 10.7. then I realized that there was a layer of 1/4" plywood
bonded to the inner skin of the cabin side. Much of this had rotted from
leaks.
The owner wanted a quick(er) and inexpensive way to fix the problem, so he
is goring to replace the rotted wood with epoxy coated ply and replace the
Plexiglas on the inside. I suggested either 3M101 or LifeSeal instead of
silicone for the sealant. If it was my boat and I planned on keeping it for
a few years, I would put the windows on the outside.
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...>
wrote:
I was going to make a post referring to that very article as I bought
the particular issue just for to have it. Excellent article including
the illustrations.
Didn't even notice it was you that wrote it!
I also found the article on DIY shorepower interesting. Any comments
on that? Then on page 92 of that issue I noticed the price they are
asking for rotary switch panel. $467.00 YIKES!
Thanks, Nels
wrote:
> I've replaced all the fixed windows on my Columbia and don'tunderstand
> placing the glazing on the insideHi Paul,
I was going to make a post referring to that very article as I bought
the particular issue just for to have it. Excellent article including
the illustrations.
Didn't even notice it was you that wrote it!
I also found the article on DIY shorepower interesting. Any comments
on that? Then on page 92 of that issue I noticed the price they are
asking for rotary switch panel. $467.00 YIKES!
Thanks, Nels
Paul,
Perhaps the various builders of Columbia used different approaches on different models. My "8.7" has its fixed windows on the inside of the cabin structure.
Mike
Perhaps the various builders of Columbia used different approaches on different models. My "8.7" has its fixed windows on the inside of the cabin structure.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul W. Esterle<mailto:pesterle@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lexan windows questions
I've replaced all the fixed windows on my Columbia and don't understand
placing the glazing on the inside. After sealing the exposed plywood core, I
overlapped the Plexiglas by 1-1/4 all around and fastened it every 2-1/2"
with truss head screws screwed into t-nuts buried in the cabin walls amd
sealed with epoxy. I sanded the 1-1/4" margin, painted it with two coats of
polyurethane paint and installed. I placed 1/8" rubber washers on the screws
and used plenty of LifeSeal adhesive. the entire window (except for the area
where the sealant was) and the surrounding area was taped off with blue
tape. The screws were tightened and the rubber washers prevented squeezing
out all the sealant. After five years - no leaks, a CD (Installing Fixed
Windows) and an article in BoatWorks...
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
Published in Small Craft Advisor, SAIL,
Living Aboard, Boatbuilder, Good Old
Boat, Blue Water Sailing, Nor'easter
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Garth,
If you are that concerned for strength, you can support the lexan on the inside with strips of 1/8" by 1 1/2" metal (aluminum?) and on the outside with stainless steel fender washers. I will bet you that the construction will be stronger that the sides themselves and will interfere less that adding 1/2 inch plywood.
Mike
If you are that concerned for strength, you can support the lexan on the inside with strips of 1/8" by 1 1/2" metal (aluminum?) and on the outside with stainless steel fender washers. I will bet you that the construction will be stronger that the sides themselves and will interfere less that adding 1/2 inch plywood.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: GarthAB<mailto:garth@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:32 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan windows questions
Hi Mike --
Interesting approach. For me it has two drawbacks. One is that my
sides are only about 3/8" thick, and I've been planning to screw/glue
some 1/2" plywood backing about 2" across surrounding the window
cutout, on the inside, to give more material to screw into. I guess
with your system, I'd just place these on the outside, and they
wouldn't look bad. Might have a nice framing effect.
The other thing is my "worst-case-scenario" mind at work. Not that
I ever plan on sailing my boat in a hurricane, but say we do get
caught out in a bad squall on open water, and a big rogue wave pounds
into the side of the boat. Windows mounted outside with overlap will
press against the boat sides; their fasteners will be mainly holding
the window in place side-to-side, and overall it would takera lot to
make such a system fail. But an interior-mounted window would be
blasted back, held in place only by the strength of the fasteners.
Probably crazy to worry about such things on a boat I plan to sail
only in protected waters. But I do think about these things . . .
All best,
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Kline" <kura1in2@m...> wrote:
> Garth,
>
> I'm in the process of rebuilding the cabin of a Columbia. Based on
my discoveries in that effort, I suggest that you put the lexan on the
inside and let the cut-out determine the shape of the windows. The
lexan can be left rectangular and you can use a silicon caulk to bed
them with bolts through or screws (depending on the thickness of the
cabin sides) to fix them in place. No camoflaging tape or other
cover-up will be necessary.
>
> Mike
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've replaced all the fixed windows on my Columbia and don't understand
placing the glazing on the inside. After sealing the exposed plywood core, I
overlapped the Plexiglas by 1-1/4 all around and fastened it every 2-1/2"
with truss head screws screwed into t-nuts buried in the cabin walls amd
sealed with epoxy. I sanded the 1-1/4" margin, painted it with two coats of
polyurethane paint and installed. I placed 1/8" rubber washers on the screws
and used plenty of LifeSeal adhesive. the entire window (except for the area
where the sealant was) and the surrounding area was taped off with blue
tape. The screws were tightened and the rubber washers prevented squeezing
out all the sealant. After five years - no leaks, a CD (Installing Fixed
Windows) and an article in BoatWorks...
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
Published in Small Craft Advisor, SAIL,
Living Aboard, Boatbuilder, Good Old
Boat, Blue Water Sailing, Nor'easter
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
placing the glazing on the inside. After sealing the exposed plywood core, I
overlapped the Plexiglas by 1-1/4 all around and fastened it every 2-1/2"
with truss head screws screwed into t-nuts buried in the cabin walls amd
sealed with epoxy. I sanded the 1-1/4" margin, painted it with two coats of
polyurethane paint and installed. I placed 1/8" rubber washers on the screws
and used plenty of LifeSeal adhesive. the entire window (except for the area
where the sealant was) and the surrounding area was taped off with blue
tape. The screws were tightened and the rubber washers prevented squeezing
out all the sealant. After five years - no leaks, a CD (Installing Fixed
Windows) and an article in BoatWorks...
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
Published in Small Craft Advisor, SAIL,
Living Aboard, Boatbuilder, Good Old
Boat, Blue Water Sailing, Nor'easter
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.com
Hi Mike --
Interesting approach. For me it has two drawbacks. One is that my
sides are only about 3/8" thick, and I've been planning to screw/glue
some 1/2" plywood backing about 2" across surrounding the window
cutout, on the inside, to give more material to screw into. I guess
with your system, I'd just place these on the outside, and they
wouldn't look bad. Might have a nice framing effect.
The other thing is my "worst-case-scenario" mind at work. Not that
I ever plan on sailing my boat in a hurricane, but say we do get
caught out in a bad squall on open water, and a big rogue wave pounds
into the side of the boat. Windows mounted outside with overlap will
press against the boat sides; their fasteners will be mainly holding
the window in place side-to-side, and overall it would takera lot to
make such a system fail. But an interior-mounted window would be
blasted back, held in place only by the strength of the fasteners.
Probably crazy to worry about such things on a boat I plan to sail
only in protected waters. But I do think about these things . . .
All best,
Garth
Interesting approach. For me it has two drawbacks. One is that my
sides are only about 3/8" thick, and I've been planning to screw/glue
some 1/2" plywood backing about 2" across surrounding the window
cutout, on the inside, to give more material to screw into. I guess
with your system, I'd just place these on the outside, and they
wouldn't look bad. Might have a nice framing effect.
The other thing is my "worst-case-scenario" mind at work. Not that
I ever plan on sailing my boat in a hurricane, but say we do get
caught out in a bad squall on open water, and a big rogue wave pounds
into the side of the boat. Windows mounted outside with overlap will
press against the boat sides; their fasteners will be mainly holding
the window in place side-to-side, and overall it would takera lot to
make such a system fail. But an interior-mounted window would be
blasted back, held in place only by the strength of the fasteners.
Probably crazy to worry about such things on a boat I plan to sail
only in protected waters. But I do think about these things . . .
All best,
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Kline" <kura1in2@m...> wrote:
> Garth,
>
> I'm in the process of rebuilding the cabin of a Columbia. Based on
my discoveries in that effort, I suggest that you put the lexan on the
inside and let the cut-out determine the shape of the windows. The
lexan can be left rectangular and you can use a silicon caulk to bed
them with bolts through or screws (depending on the thickness of the
cabin sides) to fix them in place. No camoflaging tape or other
cover-up will be necessary.
>
> Mike
When I installed the ACRYLIC windows on the Dakota, I used
3M-4200. It formed a seal, but didn't actually adhere. I coved the
squeeze-out with a moistened finger. When it had cured, I
trimmed the excess squeeze-out with a plastic knife (like you get
at Burger King) and the excess peeled off easily.
Caveats:
1. Although I have tested in the shop for water tightness with a
sprayer; I haven't launched my boat yet, so I can't say how good
the seal will be in actual use.
2. Test on some scrap with the same surfaces to determine if
the 4200 will adhere. If it does, then the excess may not peel off
easily. I found that 4200 does adhere to glass, but I could safely
scrape the excess off the glass with a single edge razor blade.
Vince
3M-4200. It formed a seal, but didn't actually adhere. I coved the
squeeze-out with a moistened finger. When it had cured, I
trimmed the excess squeeze-out with a plastic knife (like you get
at Burger King) and the excess peeled off easily.
Caveats:
1. Although I have tested in the shop for water tightness with a
sprayer; I haven't launched my boat yet, so I can't say how good
the seal will be in actual use.
2. Test on some scrap with the same surfaces to determine if
the 4200 will adhere. If it does, then the excess may not peel off
easily. I found that 4200 does adhere to glass, but I could safely
scrape the excess off the glass with a single edge razor blade.
Vince
Garth,
I'm in the process of rebuilding the cabin of a Columbia. Based on my discoveries in that effort, I suggest that you put the lexan on the inside and let the cut-out determine the shape of the windows. The lexan can be left rectangular and you can use a silicon caulk to bed them with bolts through or screws (depending on the thickness of the cabin sides) to fix them in place. No camoflaging tape or other cover-up will be necessary.
Mike
I'm in the process of rebuilding the cabin of a Columbia. Based on my discoveries in that effort, I suggest that you put the lexan on the inside and let the cut-out determine the shape of the windows. The lexan can be left rectangular and you can use a silicon caulk to bed them with bolts through or screws (depending on the thickness of the cabin sides) to fix them in place. No camoflaging tape or other cover-up will be necessary.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: GarthAB<mailto:garth@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:29 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan windows questions
Hi Bruce --
Thanks -- great idea, and thanks for the warning about the mess of
using silicone. I must've read your original post a while back,
because I had a vague, warning memory of something like that.
Is that butyl tape flexible enough to work around a circular opening
without cutting every inch or two to make the curve?
I may just order a roll or two and experiment. . . .
All best,
Garth
> I don't know which tape you are referring to, but boatbuilding
> is similar to RV'ing in a lot of ways. I have used the butyl
> rubber RV tape [on my RV] and it is good stuff! It comes in
> white and black and is tried and well tested in the installation
> of RV windows.
>
>http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/48463.htm<http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/48463.htm>
>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dave --
Thanks for the lead on EPDM. I Googled around but couldn't tell --
does this stuff come in "clear"? McMaster-Carr seemed to have only
black. Where do you get it?
All best,
Garth
Thanks for the lead on EPDM. I Googled around but couldn't tell --
does this stuff come in "clear"? McMaster-Carr seemed to have only
black. Where do you get it?
All best,
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dvd_godsey" <dvd_godsey@y...> wrote:
> No need for 1.5" unless you are using plexiglas instead of Lexan.
> Plex is so brittle in 1/8" it needs lotsa support. 3/4 to 1 should
> be adequate for the Lex. Use butyl tape or a two part sealant if you
> must but I would just make an EPDM (or other material) gasket if
> using screws to mount the frames.
>
> This way you can easily change out material in the future if you have
> scratches, etc. or remove the frames for refinishing.
>
> Dave
> Is that butyl tape flexibleThe Butyl tape I used had the approximate consistency
> Garth
of chewed bubble gum.
Hi Bruce --
Thanks -- great idea, and thanks for the warning about the mess of
using silicone. I must've read your original post a while back,
because I had a vague, warning memory of something like that.
Is that butyl tape flexible enough to work around a circular opening
without cutting every inch or two to make the curve?
I may just order a roll or two and experiment. . . .
All best,
Garth
Thanks -- great idea, and thanks for the warning about the mess of
using silicone. I must've read your original post a while back,
because I had a vague, warning memory of something like that.
Is that butyl tape flexible enough to work around a circular opening
without cutting every inch or two to make the curve?
I may just order a roll or two and experiment. . . .
All best,
Garth
> I don't know which tape you are referring to, but boatbuilding
> is similar to RV'ing in a lot of ways. I have used the butyl
> rubber RV tape [on my RV] and it is good stuff! It comes in
> white and black and is tried and well tested in the installation
> of RV windows.
>
>http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/48463.htm
>
>No need for 1.5" unless you are using plexiglas instead of Lexan.
> I'll be cutting the ellipses out of the boat sides, then cutting the
> lexan to the same shape, but with an extra 1.5" inches all around,
> where I'll drill the holes and screw the lexan on. Is this enough
> overlap? Can I get away with less?
Plex is so brittle in 1/8" it needs lotsa support. 3/4 to 1 should
be adequate for the Lex. Use butyl tape or a two part sealant if you
must but I would just make an EPDM (or other material) gasket if
using screws to mount the frames.
This way you can easily change out material in the future if you have
scratches, etc. or remove the frames for refinishing.
Dave
Some thoughts and free advice. I used silicone adhesive on my
polycarbonate windows, and it was a big mess to work with, and
would have been a bigger mess without the liberal use of masking
tape and about a hundred 'single use' handmade cardboard coving
tools.
I don't know which tape you are referring to, but boatbuilding
is similar to RV'ing in a lot of ways. I have used the butyl
rubber RV tape [on my RV] and it is good stuff! It comes in
white and black and is tried and well tested in the installation
of RV windows.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/48463.htm
A 1 1/2" overlap seems to be a lot for a 15" window. I used about
3/4" for a 30 inch window. [mine might be skimpy, but I don't
regret it].
polycarbonate windows, and it was a big mess to work with, and
would have been a bigger mess without the liberal use of masking
tape and about a hundred 'single use' handmade cardboard coving
tools.
I don't know which tape you are referring to, but boatbuilding
is similar to RV'ing in a lot of ways. I have used the butyl
rubber RV tape [on my RV] and it is good stuff! It comes in
white and black and is tried and well tested in the installation
of RV windows.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/48463.htm
A 1 1/2" overlap seems to be a lot for a 15" window. I used about
3/4" for a 30 inch window. [mine might be skimpy, but I don't
regret it].
> I'm printing out templates for the lexan windows that'll go on
> Cormorant. They're nice large, clean ellipses drawn on the computer.
> There's 5 per side, increasing in size as the distance between the
> gunwale and the cabin clamp increases going aft, with the smallest 8"H
> x 14.75"W, and the largest 14" x 23". No real reason for this shape
> other than esthetics, and it seems a good compromise between total
> Birdwatcher visibility and partial shade/privacy.
>
> I'll be cutting the ellipses out of the boat sides, then cutting the
> lexan to the same shape, but with an extra 1.5" inches all around,
> where I'll drill the holes and screw the lexan on. Is this enough
> overlap? Can I get away with less?
>
> And, if I'd like the white color of the topsides to show through under
> the lexan overlap, can I just seal it all with clear silicone, enough
> to squeeze out and leave no air bubbles? If I can't come up with a
> good transparent option, I may make a wooden covering ellipse 1.5"
> wide to go over the lexan in this overlap area -- might look nice and
> shippy, but that just seems like extra work.
>
> On the Jochems video that Sue loaned me, Judge Jochems used some sort
> of transparent two-sided tape to secure his lexan (along with screws).
> Not as good for a curved edge -- but does anyone know exactly what
> that tape is?
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> All best,
> Garth
I'm printing out templates for the lexan windows that'll go on
Cormorant. They're nice large, clean ellipses drawn on the computer.
There's 5 per side, increasing in size as the distance between the
gunwale and the cabin clamp increases going aft, with the smallest 8"H
x 14.75"W, and the largest 14" x 23". No real reason for this shape
other than esthetics, and it seems a good compromise between total
Birdwatcher visibility and partial shade/privacy.
I'll be cutting the ellipses out of the boat sides, then cutting the
lexan to the same shape, but with an extra 1.5" inches all around,
where I'll drill the holes and screw the lexan on. Is this enough
overlap? Can I get away with less?
And, if I'd like the white color of the topsides to show through under
the lexan overlap, can I just seal it all with clear silicone, enough
to squeeze out and leave no air bubbles? If I can't come up with a
good transparent option, I may make a wooden covering ellipse 1.5"
wide to go over the lexan in this overlap area -- might look nice and
shippy, but that just seems like extra work.
On the Jochems video that Sue loaned me, Judge Jochems used some sort
of transparent two-sided tape to secure his lexan (along with screws).
Not as good for a curved edge -- but does anyone know exactly what
that tape is?
Thanks for any advice!
All best,
Garth
P.S. Sue -- let me know your address and I'll mail that tape back.
Cormorant. They're nice large, clean ellipses drawn on the computer.
There's 5 per side, increasing in size as the distance between the
gunwale and the cabin clamp increases going aft, with the smallest 8"H
x 14.75"W, and the largest 14" x 23". No real reason for this shape
other than esthetics, and it seems a good compromise between total
Birdwatcher visibility and partial shade/privacy.
I'll be cutting the ellipses out of the boat sides, then cutting the
lexan to the same shape, but with an extra 1.5" inches all around,
where I'll drill the holes and screw the lexan on. Is this enough
overlap? Can I get away with less?
And, if I'd like the white color of the topsides to show through under
the lexan overlap, can I just seal it all with clear silicone, enough
to squeeze out and leave no air bubbles? If I can't come up with a
good transparent option, I may make a wooden covering ellipse 1.5"
wide to go over the lexan in this overlap area -- might look nice and
shippy, but that just seems like extra work.
On the Jochems video that Sue loaned me, Judge Jochems used some sort
of transparent two-sided tape to secure his lexan (along with screws).
Not as good for a curved edge -- but does anyone know exactly what
that tape is?
Thanks for any advice!
All best,
Garth
P.S. Sue -- let me know your address and I'll mail that tape back.