Re: [bolger] Re: Overnight trip on Micro Navigator,
> You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room onThere is about 3 square feet of floor that has
> your navigator?
5 feet 8 1/2 inches of head room. I am six feet tall,
and find that plenty adaquate for standing and pulling
up my pants, etc..
Also, the roof hatch slides wide open, and
gives unlimited headroom, when open.
The headroom above the berths is very generous
and non-claustrophobic. I don't think I can touch
the ceiling with my hand while seated, 3' 7" from
top of cushion to ceiling.
.
You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on
your navigator?
your navigator?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
>
> Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
> our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
> and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
> reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
>
> I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
> of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
> to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
> just wasted effort on such small hull.
>
> Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
> the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
> Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
> last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
> to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
> 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
> Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
> de-facto Bolger emissary.
>
> Susan, David prepare yourself.
>
> The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
> simply huge inside, and when you get out and
> compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
> much tiny, 'Micro'.
>
> I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
> having anything to measure against, it is hard
> to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
> under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
> a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
> Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
> at all.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro
because he couldn't take the questions anymore..........:-D
> > Curiosity more than anything else.Don't worry Bruce,you'll get used to it...trust me :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro
because he couldn't take the questions anymore..........:-D
> Bruce,Best weekend of the year, so far! Calm in the morning
> Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay.
and 10-15 kt westerlies in the afternoons 65 deg F.
> Can you shed a little more light on some of theCuriosity more than anything else. Basically
> comments you got about your boat and you
> think the impression people had of it?
> Greg
everybody starts out with the question: "Did
you build it?" Followed by a long series of
other questions, that after a dozen people
become repetitive.
Some people want to know 'how old' it is.
A certain subset of the group wants to know
how the odd looking sail rig works. Lots of
others are amazed at the glasshouse comfy
cabin on a sailboat. Many others guess that it
must have a centerboard, and are skeptical
that it can function without one.
Considering the fact that 99% of the boats I
see tend to be very much similar to each
other, I suspect mostly their owners are
'conformists' and my boat is definately not
that! So, I am guessing that many who do
not approach me probably view me and my
boat as a "bit odd".
Generally, the people that did have the initiative
to approach me seemed to have a favorable
impression of the boat, and all these people
were friendly! That is a welcome thing! (most the
time), except at times when you are in a hurry
trying to get work done to beat the tide, etc.,
while a small crowd gathers wanting to talk.
Bruce,
Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little
more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you
think the impression people had of it?
Greg
Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little
more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you
think the impression people had of it?
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
>
> Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
> our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
> and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
> reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
>
> I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
> of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
> to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
> just wasted effort on such small hull.
>
> Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
> the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
> Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
> last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
> to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
> 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
> Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
> de-facto Bolger emissary.
>
> Susan, David prepare yourself.
>
> The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
> simply huge inside, and when you get out and
> compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
> much tiny, 'Micro'.
>
> I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
> having anything to measure against, it is hard
> to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
> under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
> a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
> Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
> at all.
Great Stuff Bruce!
I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel.
Windscreen wipers for the front next?
She looks fine sitting in the berth next to the other yachts.
I got everything set last saturday, wife organised to take sailing
photos, loaded the gear in the car, got there and guess
what?....painted ships on a painted sea. No wind at all for the rest
of the day, so we went home again.
DonB
I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel.
Windscreen wipers for the front next?
She looks fine sitting in the berth next to the other yachts.
I got everything set last saturday, wife organised to take sailing
photos, loaded the gear in the car, got there and guess
what?....painted ships on a painted sea. No wind at all for the rest
of the day, so we went home again.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
>
> Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
> our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
> and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
> reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
>
> I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
> of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
> to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
> just wasted effort on such small hull.
>
> Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
> the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
> Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
> last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
> to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
> 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
> Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
> de-facto Bolger emissary.
>
> Susan, David prepare yourself.
>
> The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
> simply huge inside, and when you get out and
> compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
> much tiny, 'Micro'.
>
> I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
> having anything to measure against, it is hard
> to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
> under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
> a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
> Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
> at all.
http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
just wasted effort on such small hull.
Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
de-facto Bolger emissary.
Susan, David prepare yourself.
The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
simply huge inside, and when you get out and
compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
much tiny, 'Micro'.
I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
having anything to measure against, it is hard
to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
at all.
Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
just wasted effort on such small hull.
Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
de-facto Bolger emissary.
Susan, David prepare yourself.
The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
simply huge inside, and when you get out and
compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
much tiny, 'Micro'.
I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
having anything to measure against, it is hard
to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
at all.
Gary:
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans eitherEep! Sorry... they're on Bolger3.
> in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in
> a folder titled something else?
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Susan:
I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled something elese?
Gary
I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled something elese?
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Davis
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:27 AM
Subject: [bolger] Swing Wing, was Re: More dipping lugger (probably too much...)
> If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!
I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.
-- Sue --
(I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.
-- Sue --
(I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks
for the great article and also the updates.
I enquired quite awhile back about installing a small swing wing keel
in a Long Micro salient keel to give it some added offhsore
capability while not intruding on the cabin space. I was informed
that that it was most likly to add nothing to a hull of that shape
and hull speed. It is a keel designed for a fast narrow hull like
yours.
Great name for a boat!
Cheers, Nels
>you
> Nels:
> I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
> Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and
> can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think youhave
> to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it toHi Gary,
> you.
For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks
for the great article and also the updates.
I enquired quite awhile back about installing a small swing wing keel
in a Long Micro salient keel to give it some added offhsore
capability while not intruding on the cabin space. I was informed
that that it was most likly to add nothing to a hull of that shape
and hull speed. It is a keel designed for a fast narrow hull like
yours.
Great name for a boat!
Cheers, Nels
I know two on this list that really want to see them:)
HJ
gbship wrote:
HJ
gbship wrote:
>Nels:
>I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
>Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
>can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
>to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
>you.
>In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
>angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
>like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
>bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
>in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
>more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
>sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
>the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
>only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.
>
>Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
>experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
>Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
>design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
>for the Insolent 60, let me know!
>
>Gary Blankenship
>
>
>
>>We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
>>like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
>>
>>
>seaworthy
>
>
>>and effecient it is.
>>
>>I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
>>having such potential.
>>
>>Thanks, Nels
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Nels:
I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
you.
In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.
Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
for the Insolent 60, let me know!
Gary Blankenship
I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
you.
In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.
Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
for the Insolent 60, let me know!
Gary Blankenship
> We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keeland
> how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you wouldseaworthy
> like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
> and effecient it is.
>
> I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
> having such potential.
>
> Thanks, Nels
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug
and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward
attachment point for the third reef aft along the boom so the COE
didn't move forward with that reef.
I've changed the rig to a standing lug that allows roller reefing.
Since the luff moves aft when reefing no lee helm developes.
Your lug nut, Reed
Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug
and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward
attachment point for the third reef aft along the boom so the COE
didn't move forward with that reef.
I've changed the rig to a standing lug that allows roller reefing.
Since the luff moves aft when reefing no lee helm developes.
Your lug nut, Reed
CC me also please
welshman@...
HJ
gbship wrote:
welshman@...
HJ
gbship wrote:
>Reed & Bruce:
>The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
>Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
>had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.
>
>On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
>jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
>mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
>mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
>blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
>be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
>a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
>this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
>reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
>triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
>if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
>a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
>lines.
>
>If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
>
>Gary Blankenship
>Tallahassee, FL
>
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@s...> wrote:
>
>
>> The boat is still rigged as a
>>
>>
>>>balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to
>>>
>>>
>>triple
>>
>>
>>>reefed from the cockpit.
>>>
>>>
>>Hi Gary,
>>
>>Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
>>
>>I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
>>cockpit.
>>
>>Reed
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
Would be great if you could post them to Bolger4photos or if you
email them to Bruce maybe he would if you are not a member of all the
groups.
We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel and
how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how seaworthy
and effecient it is.
I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
having such potential.
Thanks, Nels
>Hi Gary,
> Reed & Bruce:
> If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
>
> Gary Blankenship
> Tallahassee, FL
>
>
Would be great if you could post them to Bolger4photos or if you
email them to Bruce maybe he would if you are not a member of all the
groups.
We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel and
how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how seaworthy
and effecient it is.
I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
having such potential.
Thanks, Nels
Reed & Bruce:
The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.
On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
lines.
If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
Gary Blankenship
Tallahassee, FL
The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.
On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
lines.
If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
Gary Blankenship
Tallahassee, FL
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@s...> wrote:
>
> The boat is still rigged as a
> > balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to
> triple
> > reefed from the cockpit.
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
>
> I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
> cockpit.
>
> Reed
>If you compareI'm trying to picture this and I'm not succeeding. You mean simply
>the drawings for dipping and balanced lugs, you'll see that a lot
>more of the foot of the dipping lug is forward of the mast than the
>balanced lug. The boom downhaul on the balanced rig was slid forward
>a couple feet and the windward performance improved dramatically. The
>dipping lug, though, was faster on the wind and my impression was it
>was closer-winded as well.
"pivoting" the boom further forward, or physically sliding the whole sail
forward? Or ... ?
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
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_________________________________
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-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
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The boat is still rigged as a
Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
cockpit.
Reed
> balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up totriple
> reefed from the cockpit.Hi Gary,
Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
cockpit.
Reed
gbship <gbship@...> wrote:
Thanks a million for the dipping lug first hand report,
it makes me want to try one more than ever!
> on dipping lugs and thought to throw in my two cents; well more thanWhich 30 footer is that?
> two cents since we have a Bolger-designed 30-footer originally rigged
> as a dipping lugger, and designed for single-handed ocean racing.
Thanks a million for the dipping lug first hand report,
it makes me want to try one more than ever!
Having just just rejoined the list after a hiatus, I saw the thread
on dipping lugs and thought to throw in my two cents; well more than
two cents since we have a Bolger-designed 30-footer originally rigged
as a dipping lugger, and designed for single-handed ocean racing.
BTW, I don't know if he ever sailed Resolution alone using the
dipping lug sail, but Bolger certainly would have been capable. He
had the 450 square foot mainsail made out of fairly light material
(he thought 6.5 ounce) and could raise and lower it by himself
without a winch. He designed my 385-square foot sails to do the same,
but I had them made out of 8 ounce cloth and I needed a winch to get
them up.
The boat was designed with one sail on each side of the mast. so it
was drop one and raise one every tack or gybe. I also experimented
with dipping and shifting one sail, using lines to guide the tack
around the mast. Unfortunately, there was a V-shaped area formed
where the mast went through the deck just forward of where the from
of the cabin angled to the deck. The sail tended to get hung up in
there and had to be helped through. Anyway, it took about three and a
half minutes to tack with either two sails or one. I did a lot by
myself, but of course had an autopilot steering.
I eventually rerigged as a balanced lugger, using the existing sail.
The boat reached as well and ran better, since the boom held the foot
out when going downwind. But at first it was just about dead on the
wind. Bolger's book, 100 Small Boat Rigs had the key, If you compare
the drawings for dipping and balanced lugs, you'll see that a lot
more of the foot of the dipping lug is forward of the mast than the
balanced lug. The boom downhaul on the balanced rig was slid forward
a couple feet and the windward performance improved dramatically. The
dipping lug, though, was faster on the wind and my impression was it
was closer-winded as well.
The dipping lug would sail to windward on the bad tack but the speed
was cut in half. But the boat remained in control and would tack back
without difficulty. Bolger had the sail tacks on a traveler, so the
tack could be hauled up to the windward edge of the deck, which was
also done to flatten the sail when it was on the bad back.
That, in a nutshell, was my experience. The boat is still rigged as a
balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to triple
reefed from the cockpit. It's much easier to deal with than the
dipping lugger. But (in my objective, unbiased, and strictly neutral
opinion ;-)) there isn't any other rig in the world that will match
the hypnotic beauty of a dipping lug under sail, expecially hard on
the wind or close reaching.
Some additional thoughts, observtions, and provocations:
-- While the dipping lugger goes dead on the bad tack, there's isn't
any appreciable difference with the balanced lugger. In fact,
sometimes the "bad" tack seems faster. That makes me wonder if the
tack of the dipping lugger were moved aft a bit and to the windward
rail, if it would perform better on the bad tack. Obviously, if
you're short tacking in crowded waters the last thing you need is to
move the tack for and aft (and side to side) on each tack. You would
also have a different helm balance on each tack, and I can't see any
way to shift the foot easily, but it is an interesting thought . . .
-- Someone mentioned using the balanced lug as a standing lug in
crowded waters, bringing the tack back to the mast. That could be a
problem on a sail cut to be a dipping lug. If you bring the tack back
to the mast, the clew is going to get awfully high in the air -- it
would probably be over 10 feet in my boat. Plus the yard will get
cocked up at a too steep angle and could present control problems and
allow twist. Finally, you will have radically shifted your center of
effort aft, increasing weather helm. (I got away with this when I
went to the balanced lug because the shift wasn't as radical, the
boat came out with a neutral helm on the wind and some weather helm
was a good thing.) It might work if you added a triangular reef, with
the base along the luff and the apex at the clew. Tie in the reef,
and the sail would set lower solving the high clew problem, and the
yard wouldn't cock up so much and the balance wouldn't change quite
as much. It would cost some sail area though. Just a thought. . .
-- BTW, Bolger had a neat way to control the sail while raising and
lowering. Instead of a parrel, he designed a jackstay, a wire stay
that's fastened to a tang at the top of the mast and is lashed with a
rope to a padeye that's through-bolted to the deck a couple inches
from the base of the mast. It does not have to be more than lashed
because it does not support the mast, it guides the yard. One of
theose tear-drop shaped rope thimbles goes around the wire and a rope
is spliced to that and then tied to the yard, getting the yard as
close the wire (and hence the mast) as possible. It's tied at the
same place where the halyard if fastened. The advantage to this is it
never binds like a parrel, and the sail can be raised or lowered on
any point of sail. In fact, I make it a point not to be heading
straight into the wind when raising or lowering the sail (although
easing the sheet to let the sail luff does help). Keeps me away from
the flapping sail and the gyrating yard. There is also a line to help
control the yard.
Fellow lug-nuts, take this FWIW...
Gary Blankenship
on dipping lugs and thought to throw in my two cents; well more than
two cents since we have a Bolger-designed 30-footer originally rigged
as a dipping lugger, and designed for single-handed ocean racing.
BTW, I don't know if he ever sailed Resolution alone using the
dipping lug sail, but Bolger certainly would have been capable. He
had the 450 square foot mainsail made out of fairly light material
(he thought 6.5 ounce) and could raise and lower it by himself
without a winch. He designed my 385-square foot sails to do the same,
but I had them made out of 8 ounce cloth and I needed a winch to get
them up.
The boat was designed with one sail on each side of the mast. so it
was drop one and raise one every tack or gybe. I also experimented
with dipping and shifting one sail, using lines to guide the tack
around the mast. Unfortunately, there was a V-shaped area formed
where the mast went through the deck just forward of where the from
of the cabin angled to the deck. The sail tended to get hung up in
there and had to be helped through. Anyway, it took about three and a
half minutes to tack with either two sails or one. I did a lot by
myself, but of course had an autopilot steering.
I eventually rerigged as a balanced lugger, using the existing sail.
The boat reached as well and ran better, since the boom held the foot
out when going downwind. But at first it was just about dead on the
wind. Bolger's book, 100 Small Boat Rigs had the key, If you compare
the drawings for dipping and balanced lugs, you'll see that a lot
more of the foot of the dipping lug is forward of the mast than the
balanced lug. The boom downhaul on the balanced rig was slid forward
a couple feet and the windward performance improved dramatically. The
dipping lug, though, was faster on the wind and my impression was it
was closer-winded as well.
The dipping lug would sail to windward on the bad tack but the speed
was cut in half. But the boat remained in control and would tack back
without difficulty. Bolger had the sail tacks on a traveler, so the
tack could be hauled up to the windward edge of the deck, which was
also done to flatten the sail when it was on the bad back.
That, in a nutshell, was my experience. The boat is still rigged as a
balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to triple
reefed from the cockpit. It's much easier to deal with than the
dipping lugger. But (in my objective, unbiased, and strictly neutral
opinion ;-)) there isn't any other rig in the world that will match
the hypnotic beauty of a dipping lug under sail, expecially hard on
the wind or close reaching.
Some additional thoughts, observtions, and provocations:
-- While the dipping lugger goes dead on the bad tack, there's isn't
any appreciable difference with the balanced lugger. In fact,
sometimes the "bad" tack seems faster. That makes me wonder if the
tack of the dipping lugger were moved aft a bit and to the windward
rail, if it would perform better on the bad tack. Obviously, if
you're short tacking in crowded waters the last thing you need is to
move the tack for and aft (and side to side) on each tack. You would
also have a different helm balance on each tack, and I can't see any
way to shift the foot easily, but it is an interesting thought . . .
-- Someone mentioned using the balanced lug as a standing lug in
crowded waters, bringing the tack back to the mast. That could be a
problem on a sail cut to be a dipping lug. If you bring the tack back
to the mast, the clew is going to get awfully high in the air -- it
would probably be over 10 feet in my boat. Plus the yard will get
cocked up at a too steep angle and could present control problems and
allow twist. Finally, you will have radically shifted your center of
effort aft, increasing weather helm. (I got away with this when I
went to the balanced lug because the shift wasn't as radical, the
boat came out with a neutral helm on the wind and some weather helm
was a good thing.) It might work if you added a triangular reef, with
the base along the luff and the apex at the clew. Tie in the reef,
and the sail would set lower solving the high clew problem, and the
yard wouldn't cock up so much and the balance wouldn't change quite
as much. It would cost some sail area though. Just a thought. . .
-- BTW, Bolger had a neat way to control the sail while raising and
lowering. Instead of a parrel, he designed a jackstay, a wire stay
that's fastened to a tang at the top of the mast and is lashed with a
rope to a padeye that's through-bolted to the deck a couple inches
from the base of the mast. It does not have to be more than lashed
because it does not support the mast, it guides the yard. One of
theose tear-drop shaped rope thimbles goes around the wire and a rope
is spliced to that and then tied to the yard, getting the yard as
close the wire (and hence the mast) as possible. It's tied at the
same place where the halyard if fastened. The advantage to this is it
never binds like a parrel, and the sail can be raised or lowered on
any point of sail. In fact, I make it a point not to be heading
straight into the wind when raising or lowering the sail (although
easing the sheet to let the sail luff does help). Keeps me away from
the flapping sail and the gyrating yard. There is also a line to help
control the yard.
Fellow lug-nuts, take this FWIW...
Gary Blankenship