Re: Insolent 60 keel
Gary:
preliminary sketches that I have that provides additional detail about
the keel; Garth and I didn't have time to scan it when I dropped by
for our original scan-fest.
except for the leading edge, which is made out of several courses of
pressure-treated lumber bolted together.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
It is, as far as I know.
> I notice the pivot bar for I-60 is all the way forward on theThat's my understanding, yes. There's an additional sheet in the
> wings and it doesn't seem that lead alone would be strong enough to
> support the weight. I'm wondering if they will be steel filled with
> lead?
preliminary sketches that I have that provides additional detail about
the keel; Garth and I didn't have time to scan it when I dropped by
for our original scan-fest.
> It would be nice if the lead could be carried soemwhere else than inAFAICT, the lead is all in the wings, and the swing arm is all steel,
> the wings, say in the hollow area in front of the free flooding part
> of the keel or along the inside walls of the free flooding part of
> the keel.
except for the leading edge, which is made out of several courses of
pressure-treated lumber bolted together.
> I have a pair of wings, one on each side. The I-60 looks like one U-It is, as far as I know.
> shaped piece, split at the front where it goes around the keel, but
> solid from the bracket aft.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
It is, as far as I know.
gbship wrote:
notice in the entire thing was the word "typo"... :-)
Bruce
>Great info, but that was just too good to pass up... the only "typo" I
> Well, I'm rambling and punchy. Hope this makes sense and there aren't
> too many types.
>
> Gary
>
notice in the entire thing was the word "typo"... :-)
Bruce
Susan (& Bruce)
Thanks for the information and the plans. The key thing about the
keel will be the linkage that attaches to that wing bracket and
controls its swinging. It has to be strong enough to support whatever
that wing weighs. I doubt there will be any problem this time. The
second feature is it should be be easily adjustable becuase you will
have to get the wings parallel to the waterline when the keel is
fully down. Unfortunately on mine, there was no way to adjust without
disassembling everything, a major operation also involving expensive
crane time.
I've very curious how the wings will be made. Mine are lead with the
pivot bar about one-third of the way back in the thickest part of the
wings. I notice the pivot bar for I-60 is all the way forward on the
wings and it doesn't seem that lead alone would be strong enough to
support the weight. I'm wondering if they will be steel filled with
lead?
When it comes time to find someone to make the keel, locate a
craftsman who enjoys the challenge of doing something different. I
originally went to a steel boatbuilder figuring it would be no
problem for him. When the time came to get it, I was so excited I
really didn't look at it closely. Turned out it has several problems,
including the hole for the pivot pin was more than 1/4 inch out of
true in less than 3 " of thickness. The keel would have mounted so
crooked it wouldn't have retracted. The 1/4 inch steel trailing edge
was also bent to one side, it would have caused the boat to try to
turn in circles. I did find a real craftsman to address the problems -
-- he actually seemed personally insulted at the shoddy job the first
guy had did. He fixed the problems and actually did a little extra
work smothing up some bumps.
I mention this because it seems there will be some close tolerances
on the I-60 keel. For example, the back half of the bottom end of the
keel will have to be cut in a curve that matches that of the wing, so
they fit tightly together when the keel is fully down and cut
turbulence. I think that's a major improvement in the design and well
worth the effort.
It would be nice if the lead could be carried soemwhere else than in
the wings, say in the hollow area in front of the free flooding part
of the keel or along the inside walls of the free flooding part of
the keel. That would make the wings lighter and lessen the stress on
the wing support mechanisms. Probably not posible, though.
I have a pair of wings, one on each side. The I-60 looks like one U-
shaped piece, split at the front where it goes around the keel, but
solid from the bracket aft. That should be a big improvement, too.
Well, I'm rambling and punchy. Hope this makes sense and there aren't
too many types. Please keep me informed as the design progresses. It
may well be possible to retrofit a version of the I-60 keel to my
boat.
Gary
Thanks for the information and the plans. The key thing about the
keel will be the linkage that attaches to that wing bracket and
controls its swinging. It has to be strong enough to support whatever
that wing weighs. I doubt there will be any problem this time. The
second feature is it should be be easily adjustable becuase you will
have to get the wings parallel to the waterline when the keel is
fully down. Unfortunately on mine, there was no way to adjust without
disassembling everything, a major operation also involving expensive
crane time.
I've very curious how the wings will be made. Mine are lead with the
pivot bar about one-third of the way back in the thickest part of the
wings. I notice the pivot bar for I-60 is all the way forward on the
wings and it doesn't seem that lead alone would be strong enough to
support the weight. I'm wondering if they will be steel filled with
lead?
When it comes time to find someone to make the keel, locate a
craftsman who enjoys the challenge of doing something different. I
originally went to a steel boatbuilder figuring it would be no
problem for him. When the time came to get it, I was so excited I
really didn't look at it closely. Turned out it has several problems,
including the hole for the pivot pin was more than 1/4 inch out of
true in less than 3 " of thickness. The keel would have mounted so
crooked it wouldn't have retracted. The 1/4 inch steel trailing edge
was also bent to one side, it would have caused the boat to try to
turn in circles. I did find a real craftsman to address the problems -
-- he actually seemed personally insulted at the shoddy job the first
guy had did. He fixed the problems and actually did a little extra
work smothing up some bumps.
I mention this because it seems there will be some close tolerances
on the I-60 keel. For example, the back half of the bottom end of the
keel will have to be cut in a curve that matches that of the wing, so
they fit tightly together when the keel is fully down and cut
turbulence. I think that's a major improvement in the design and well
worth the effort.
It would be nice if the lead could be carried soemwhere else than in
the wings, say in the hollow area in front of the free flooding part
of the keel or along the inside walls of the free flooding part of
the keel. That would make the wings lighter and lessen the stress on
the wing support mechanisms. Probably not posible, though.
I have a pair of wings, one on each side. The I-60 looks like one U-
shaped piece, split at the front where it goes around the keel, but
solid from the bracket aft. That should be a big improvement, too.
Well, I'm rambling and punchy. Hope this makes sense and there aren't
too many types. Please keep me informed as the design progresses. It
may well be possible to retrofit a version of the I-60 keel to my
boat.
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
>
> Gary:
> > Thanks for the postings. Looks like an awesome boat. Should build
> > fast, but make sure you find a highly skilled metal worker to
make
> > that keel. It's much improved over the one I built, but it won't
be
> > simple to build.
>
> I was dismayed to learn of the trouble you'd had with yours, but it
> does look like the improved design of the I60 version should deal
with
> the specific failure mode that you ran into. I'm really looking
> forward to ours.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
Gary:
does look like the improved design of the I60 version should deal with
the specific failure mode that you ran into. I'm really looking
forward to ours.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Thanks for the postings. Looks like an awesome boat. Should buildI was dismayed to learn of the trouble you'd had with yours, but it
> fast, but make sure you find a highly skilled metal worker to make
> that keel. It's much improved over the one I built, but it won't be
> simple to build.
does look like the improved design of the I60 version should deal with
the specific failure mode that you ran into. I'm really looking
forward to ours.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> I can't tell from the dimensions on the plans and it's not in theSomewhere in the 60-63' range LOA (plans not handy just now), and
> database, what are the beam and foot dimensions of the Insolent?
precisely 8' wide, for legal trailering in all ten provinces, fifty
states, and the bits of the territories that actually have roads.
There are even wheel wells cut into the chines (with removable fillers
for when underway) to let the boat sit low enough on the trailer to
meet height limits.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Sue:
Thanks for the postings. Looks like an awesome boat. Should build
fast, but make sure you find a highly skilled metal worker to make
that keel. It's much improved over the one I built, but it won't be
simple to build.
Gary Blankenship
Thanks for the postings. Looks like an awesome boat. Should build
fast, but make sure you find a highly skilled metal worker to make
that keel. It's much improved over the one I built, but it won't be
simple to build.
Gary Blankenship
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
>
>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/futabachan/I60-sailplan.gif
>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/futabachan/I60-plan-view.gif
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/futabachan/I60-sailplan.gifIn Sue's photo, and the similar, smaller rig of the Micro Nav.
both have the gaff, battens and boom fastened to the mast with
jaws, loosely tied in place.
Now imagine the sail furled, pleated down accordion-like; in conjunction
with the mast pivoted down in the horizontal position. Either the
sail cloth needs to rack or stretch diagonally to accommodate the
stairstep stagger of the jaws (which it won't), *or* the jaws need to
be untied from the mast. [The latter is required as I have learned.]
This task, makes the swing the mast down for the bridge at a
moments notice not really all that quick.
The real bug-a-boo that I experience in the parking lot at the boat
ramp [fending off onlookers] when I do this: is that several, (6), lines
run up the mast at the jaws; reefing lines, throat and peak halyards,
and topping lifts. These can get easily tangled and crossed up
on the wrong side of the jaws. [Bear in mind that they are hanging/
draping horizontally when you are trying to straighten out the mess.]
There might be an elegant solution to this problem, but I haven't
figured it out yet.
Judging from the fairly tight looking gaff jaw on Bolger's drawing,
I don't see that he has figured it out either. Maybe I just don't
understand his vision.
Sue,
I can't tell from the dimensions on the plans and it's not in the
database, what are the beam and foot dimensions of the Insolent?
Thanx
TomP
I can't tell from the dimensions on the plans and it's not in the
database, what are the beam and foot dimensions of the Insolent?
Thanx
TomP
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
>
>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/futabachan/I60-sailplan.gif
>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/futabachan/I60-plan-view.gif
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>