Re: Titebond III
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "FRANK Coletta" <coletta_j@...> wrote:
clamps using plywood and machine screws with wing nuts. I have a box
of them in my junk somwhere.
They are made from 2 pieces 3/8" plywood, about 3" long and 1" wide
with a small 1/4" knuckle fashioned at one end of one of the pieces to
act as a fulcrum. The bolt passing through the pieces just below the
knuckle.
You slide the clamp over your newly laid down strip so it lines it up
with the one below it and then tighten the wingnut. Voila - held down
and aligned. Idea came from the old-fashioned clothes pins and that
way you had no nail/staple holes. Or not as many if you used both:-)
The other great item we had was a pair of bead and cove cutters for
the plank edges. Saves a lot of glue runnout and crack filling.
Four of us got together and built four canoes. Last I heard the molds
and strong back had turned out many more. Lofted plans from Ted Moores
first book. "Canoecraft".
Nels
>pressure to
> Wesley,
>
> Titebond III applied to the edges of cedar strips does require
> make a tight seam. You can use clamps or temporarily braid nail orstaple
> the strips to the jig, if you don't mind the mail mark in the finishedvirtue of the
> project. Titebond III does not expand or fill voids. Another
> product is it is much less expensive than Gorilla Glue or epoxy.moisture into
>
> Any glue can be used to glue strips as long it is fully encapsulated in
> fiberglass and resin. Strip builts without encapsolationallow
> the strips and they expand and contract, causing the joints to comeapart.
>There
> As to Nel's comment. I never tried scraping it dried Titebond III.
> ususally is not enough after a damp cloth wipe before it sets.One of the group in my canoe building circle made a bunch of small
>
> Frank
clamps using plywood and machine screws with wing nuts. I have a box
of them in my junk somwhere.
They are made from 2 pieces 3/8" plywood, about 3" long and 1" wide
with a small 1/4" knuckle fashioned at one end of one of the pieces to
act as a fulcrum. The bolt passing through the pieces just below the
knuckle.
You slide the clamp over your newly laid down strip so it lines it up
with the one below it and then tighten the wingnut. Voila - held down
and aligned. Idea came from the old-fashioned clothes pins and that
way you had no nail/staple holes. Or not as many if you used both:-)
The other great item we had was a pair of bead and cove cutters for
the plank edges. Saves a lot of glue runnout and crack filling.
Four of us got together and built four canoes. Last I heard the molds
and strong back had turned out many more. Lofted plans from Ted Moores
first book. "Canoecraft".
Nels
Wesley,
Titebond III applied to the edges of cedar strips does require pressure to
make a tight seam. You can use clamps or temporarily braid nail or staple
the strips to the jig, if you don't mind the mail mark in the finished
project. Titebond III does not expand or fill voids. Another virtue of the
product is it is much less expensive than Gorilla Glue or epoxy.
Any glue can be used to glue strips as long it is fully encapsulated in
fiberglass and resin. Strip builts without encapsolationallow moisture into
the strips and they expand and contract, causing the joints to come apart.
As to Nel's comment. I never tried scraping it dried Titebond III. There
ususally is not enough after a damp cloth wipe before it sets.
Frank
Titebond III applied to the edges of cedar strips does require pressure to
make a tight seam. You can use clamps or temporarily braid nail or staple
the strips to the jig, if you don't mind the mail mark in the finished
project. Titebond III does not expand or fill voids. Another virtue of the
product is it is much less expensive than Gorilla Glue or epoxy.
Any glue can be used to glue strips as long it is fully encapsulated in
fiberglass and resin. Strip builts without encapsolationallow moisture into
the strips and they expand and contract, causing the joints to come apart.
As to Nel's comment. I never tried scraping it dried Titebond III. There
ususally is not enough after a damp cloth wipe before it sets.
Frank
>From: Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...>
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Titebond III
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:21:09 -0600
>
>This really peaks my interest. If this has been answered, I apologize
>for the redundancy, but I missed it. Does use of this glue require
>significant clamping force or does it flow and fill gaps like epoxy?
>I'm having trouble envisioning how to use any wood glue to which I'm
>accustomed on a strip planked boat. How do put pressure on all of the
>glue joints?
>
>FRANK Coletta wrote:
>
> > I am currently building a cedar strip dinghy. I started with Gorilla
>Glue
> > and it is messy. I changed to Titebond III and it works very well.
> > Other I
> > know are also using it on their builds. I cleams up easily with water
> > before it sets. Once set it takes quite a bit of sanding to remove and
> > excess. I will use it exclusively for future builds.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > >From: "Nels" <arvent@...<mailto:arvent%40hotmail.com>>
> > >Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: [bolger] Titebond III
> > >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:03:41 -0000
> > >
> > >Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
> > >from Jamestown:
> > >
> > >"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
> > >wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
> > >formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
> > >offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
> > >application temperature.
> > >Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
> > >safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
> > >strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
> > >approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
> > >wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
> > >Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
> > >combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
> > >PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
> > >water-resistance of polyurethanes."
> > >
> > >Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
> > >next water resistant. Big difference!
> > >
> > >So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
> > >ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
> > >other ANSI/HPVA spec.
> > >
> > >Nels
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
As I recall, Fritz Funk
(http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm)
suggested both Titebond II and PL Premium, though his web page now
mentions only PL Premium. We tried both on a prototype for a bunch of
Wacky Lassies for my daughter's 7th grade class. Only the prototype has
been in the water -- chine seam on one side was PL Premium, on the other
it was Titebond II (or III -- not sure). No discernible difference, both
still holding a year later. For kids, the Titebond clean-up & lack of
toxicity are definitely preferable, so that is what we've used for the
class's boats.
Patrick
Nels wrote:
(http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm)
suggested both Titebond II and PL Premium, though his web page now
mentions only PL Premium. We tried both on a prototype for a bunch of
Wacky Lassies for my daughter's 7th grade class. Only the prototype has
been in the water -- chine seam on one side was PL Premium, on the other
it was Titebond II (or III -- not sure). No discernible difference, both
still holding a year later. For kids, the Titebond clean-up & lack of
toxicity are definitely preferable, so that is what we've used for the
class's boats.
Patrick
Nels wrote:
> Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
> from Jamestown:
>
> "Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
> wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
> formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
> offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
> application temperature.
> Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
> safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
> strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
> approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
> wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
> Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
> combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
> PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
> water-resistance of polyurethanes."
>
> Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
> next water resistant. Big difference!
>
> So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
> ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
> other ANSI/HPVA spec.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
This really peaks my interest. If this has been answered, I apologize
for the redundancy, but I missed it. Does use of this glue require
significant clamping force or does it flow and fill gaps like epoxy?
I'm having trouble envisioning how to use any wood glue to which I'm
accustomed on a strip planked boat. How do put pressure on all of the
glue joints?
FRANK Coletta wrote:
for the redundancy, but I missed it. Does use of this glue require
significant clamping force or does it flow and fill gaps like epoxy?
I'm having trouble envisioning how to use any wood glue to which I'm
accustomed on a strip planked boat. How do put pressure on all of the
glue joints?
FRANK Coletta wrote:
> I am currently building a cedar strip dinghy. I started with Gorilla Glue
> and it is messy. I changed to Titebond III and it works very well.
> Other I
> know are also using it on their builds. I cleams up easily with water
> before it sets. Once set it takes quite a bit of sanding to remove and
> excess. I will use it exclusively for future builds.
>
> Frank
>
> >From: "Nels" <arvent@...<mailto:arvent%40hotmail.com>>
> >Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> >To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [bolger] Titebond III
> >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:03:41 -0000
> >
> >Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
> >from Jamestown:
> >
> >"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
> >wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
> >formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
> >offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
> >application temperature.
> >Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
> >safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
> >strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
> >approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
> >wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
> >Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
> >combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
> >PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
> >water-resistance of polyurethanes."
> >
> >Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
> >next water resistant. Big difference!
> >
> >So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
> >ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
> >other ANSI/HPVA spec.
> >
> >Nels
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "FRANK Coletta" <coletta_j@...> wrote:
afterwords to give some "tooth" for the finish?
Nels
>Gorilla Glue
> I am currently building a cedar strip dinghy. I started with
> and it is messy. I changed to Titebond III and it works very well.Other I
> know are also using it on their builds. I cleams up easily with waterWhat about using a scraper rather than sanding? Then lightly sand
> before it sets. Once set it takes quite a bit of sanding to remove and
> excess. I will use it exclusively for future builds.
>
> Frank
afterwords to give some "tooth" for the finish?
Nels
All,
Only two additional points I'd make in addition to my previous post.
First, it was noted that TIII had a "dark glue line". Not what I'd
call dark, just darker that regular Titebond.
Second, It's pretty clear now that TIII has a shorter shelf life
than Titebond... or Titebond II. I don't know how that affects its
adhesive properties, but it thickens up to the point where it won't
flow - much quicker than the other two. Still, a small price to pay
if it works as well as it seems to be so far.
Cheers & Smears,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt" -- Henry J.
Kaiser
**********
Only two additional points I'd make in addition to my previous post.
First, it was noted that TIII had a "dark glue line". Not what I'd
call dark, just darker that regular Titebond.
Second, It's pretty clear now that TIII has a shorter shelf life
than Titebond... or Titebond II. I don't know how that affects its
adhesive properties, but it thickens up to the point where it won't
flow - much quicker than the other two. Still, a small price to pay
if it works as well as it seems to be so far.
Cheers & Smears,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt" -- Henry J.
Kaiser
**********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an
excerpt
> from Jamestown:
>
> "Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water
cleanup
> wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
> formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification
and
> offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
> application temperature.
> Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
> safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
> strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
> approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate
in
> wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
> Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
> combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup
of
> PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
> water-resistance of polyurethanes."
>
> Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
> next water resistant. Big difference!
>
> So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
> ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
> other ANSI/HPVA spec.
>
> Nels
>
I am currently building a cedar strip dinghy. I started with Gorilla Glue
and it is messy. I changed to Titebond III and it works very well. Other I
know are also using it on their builds. I cleams up easily with water
before it sets. Once set it takes quite a bit of sanding to remove and
excess. I will use it exclusively for future builds.
Frank
and it is messy. I changed to Titebond III and it works very well. Other I
know are also using it on their builds. I cleams up easily with water
before it sets. Once set it takes quite a bit of sanding to remove and
excess. I will use it exclusively for future builds.
Frank
>From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Titebond III
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:03:41 -0000
>
>Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
>from Jamestown:
>
>"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
>wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
>formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
>offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
>application temperature.
>Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
>safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
>strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
>approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
>wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
>Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
>combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
>PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
>water-resistance of polyurethanes."
>
>Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
>next water resistant. Big difference!
>
>So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
>ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
>other ANSI/HPVA spec.
>
>Nels
>
>
>
>
I've used it on some outdoor projects, never a boat. However one project was a bench that is constantly outside uncovered in a wet part of N.Calif (for 4 years so far). It's behaved very well.
It's not a foaming gap filler, the joint accuracy and clamping is the same required with yellow glues. It has a dark glue line.
It's not a foaming gap filler, the joint accuracy and clamping is the same required with yellow glues. It has a dark glue line.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nels
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: [bolger] Titebond III
Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
from Jamestown:
"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
application temperature.
Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
water-resistance of polyurethanes."
Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
next water resistant. Big difference!
So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
other ANSI/HPVA spec.
Nels
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anybody tried this stuff? The link is too long but here is an excerpt
from Jamestown:
"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
application temperature.
Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
water-resistance of polyurethanes."
Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
next water resistant. Big difference!
So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
other ANSI/HPVA spec.
Nels
from Jamestown:
"Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup
wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof
formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and
offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower
application temperature.
Titebond III is non-toxic, solvent free and cleans up with water -
safer to use than traditional waterproof wood glues. It provides
strong initial tack, sands easily without softening and is FDA
approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards). The ultimate in
wood glues - ideal for both interior and exterior applications.
Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It
combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of
PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and
water-resistance of polyurethanes."
Sort of confusing, In one sentence it says it is waterproof and the
next water resistant. Big difference!
So far after much googling have been unable to find out what the
ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification actually is! Or any
other ANSI/HPVA spec.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "PAUL DELORY" <PAULDELORY@H...> wrote:
"Dear Rich: I enjoy your rendering of superbrick. I try to sail it in
virtual sailor, but i have marginal success.... I would like to
research building one but if the actual performance is no better than
the virtual sailor animation I perhaps should consider something else."
Paul: Thanks for the nice comments about my model. As for sailing it,
I'm glad you asked... I would hate to have anyone think that any model
for Virtual Sailor including Superbrick, is NECESSARILY indicative of
the sailing characteristics of the boat in real life. So please don't
use your VS simulated experience as a consideration in deciding to
build or not to build.
In each Virtual Sailor boat folder is a file called "boat.cfg" (for
boat configuration file). After a model is made, the specs of the boat
are written into this file by the model maker. The simulator then
reads certain specs from this file to simulate the boats performance:
sail area, displacement, horsepower, etc. The simulator never looks to
the 3D model itself for any performance results! So if you were to
copy a jetski's (for instance) boat.cfg file into the Superbrick's
folder, your Superbrick would perform exactly as the jetski's model
would.
Now you will find that sometimes the figures in the boat.cfg do not
exactly match the figures of the real boat. This is because no
simulator is perfect in interpreting these real figures... the sim
boat designer tries to "tweek" these figures sometimes, to bring the
boat closer to either what they know, or think, the boat should
perform like. For instance, if I made a motorboat with 50 horsepower,
and it went 12 knots tops in VS, but 26 knots in real life, I would
tweek the boat.cfg horsepower up until it brought the simulated boat's
speed up to 26 knots.
If anyone builds a Superbrick, it could very well point better, tack
better, heel less or more, etc., than the model I made. Meanwhile you
can play with the figures in your Superbrick boat.cfg to make it
easier to sail. I would save a copy of boat.cfg first to be save, though.
If you don't have it, I just uploaded my model of Phil's AS-29 to the
Chum Bucket (http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57). See if you like
it's "performance" better... Rich.
Bill,
I do use PU glue for boats. It's particularly good for spar making, and is
totally waterproof. I accidentally knocked some over and it spilled onto
the stone floor at the rear of the house. I swabbed up as much as I could,
but the remains went as hard as rock, and has long been a source of marital
discord!
As for hardware stores, or ironmongers, Will Shakespeare's Falstaff used
the word "Whoremonger" a lot, so the pedigree is impeccable (g).
Alvan.
I do use PU glue for boats. It's particularly good for spar making, and is
totally waterproof. I accidentally knocked some over and it spilled onto
the stone floor at the rear of the house. I swabbed up as much as I could,
but the remains went as hard as rock, and has long been a source of marital
discord!
As for hardware stores, or ironmongers, Will Shakespeare's Falstaff used
the word "Whoremonger" a lot, so the pedigree is impeccable (g).
Alvan.
In a message dated 4/13/05 1:31:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
ALVAN_EAMES@...writes:
Thanks for:
1) Setting me straight on what glue I was using, ages ago;
2) Reminding me to "Google" - I'm over 50 and not fully habituated
to the internet!;
But:
1) What is "foaming gapfilling PU glue"?
2) Are you, or will you, use this stuff to build boats?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
P.S. Is "ironmonger" a peculiar Anglicism for what we native English
speakers call a "hardware store"?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ALVAN_EAMES@...writes:
> Lately I have been using a foaming PU gapfilling glue, bought from ourHI, Alvan:
> local ironmonger's
Thanks for:
1) Setting me straight on what glue I was using, ages ago;
2) Reminding me to "Google" - I'm over 50 and not fully habituated
to the internet!;
But:
1) What is "foaming gapfilling PU glue"?
2) Are you, or will you, use this stuff to build boats?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
P.S. Is "ironmonger" a peculiar Anglicism for what we native English
speakers call a "hardware store"?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dear Rich: I enjoy your rendering of superbrick. I try to sail it in virtual
sailor, but i have marginal success. At about 10 knots of wind I can only
get a consistent 1.5-2.00 knots of spead beating, Also she is very
difficult to almost impossible to get to come about into the wind. How do
you do that? I have has some success gybing, come about usually requires
some backwards sailing and a lot of luck or winds stronger than 10 knots.
One last question is there a way to rais and lower the off center laterial
plane? How close to a real versiion do you consider the virtual superbrick
to sail. I would like to research building one but if the actual performance
is no better than the virtual sailor animation I perhaps should consider
something else. My brick punt sails a lot better, similar performance for
me would justify the time to build superbrick. I would appreciate any
comments you may have. Please respond to.
pauldelory@...
sailor, but i have marginal success. At about 10 knots of wind I can only
get a consistent 1.5-2.00 knots of spead beating, Also she is very
difficult to almost impossible to get to come about into the wind. How do
you do that? I have has some success gybing, come about usually requires
some backwards sailing and a lot of luck or winds stronger than 10 knots.
One last question is there a way to rais and lower the off center laterial
plane? How close to a real versiion do you consider the virtual superbrick
to sail. I would like to research building one but if the actual performance
is no better than the virtual sailor animation I perhaps should consider
something else. My brick punt sails a lot better, similar performance for
me would justify the time to build superbrick. I would appreciate any
comments you may have. Please respond to.
pauldelory@...
>From: "proto957" <helio6@...>
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger on Superbrick: "familiar image"?
>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:43:06 -0000
>
>
>"He also sent along a copy of that computer generated image of a
>Superbrick which many around here are familiar. [Which implies that
>Bolger does not have a real photo of a Superbrick, and that one has
>probably not yet been built.]"...Bruce.
>
>Bruce: I was wondering if that "...computer generated image of a
>Superbrick which many around here are familiar" might be the CAD 3D
>Studio Max, or possible the Direct X version, which I made? I had sent
>the both the game version and the 3D version to Bolger a couple of
>years ago, so that he could use it if he liked.
>
>Here is a shot of the my CAD version:
>http://www.put.com/~proto57/superbrick4.jpg
>
>Does it look the same? I don't know if you have Virtual Sailor, but if
>you are familiar with the boat, the "NY CL-ARE 7" registration number
>is actually my daughter's name and age at the time I made the boat.
>The blanket on the bunk is an actual design I did, which ended up as a
>Sears throw blanket. The radio direction finder is made from a photo
>of one in my collection... a 1960's Nova-Tech Pilot II.
>
>I think you are correct in your assessment that the boat has not been
>built yet.
>
>Check out my Chum Bucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
>There are links to Virtual Sailor, if anyone is interested in
>"sailing" a Superbrick on thier computer. Rich SantaColoma
>
>
>
> Studio Max, or possible the Direct X version, which I made? I had sentYes, the Bolger provided rendering is the one you provided him.
> the both the game version and the 3D version to Bolger a couple of
> years ago, so that he could use it if he liked.
"He also sent along a copy of that computer generated image of a
Superbrick which many around here are familiar. [Which implies that
Bolger does not have a real photo of a Superbrick, and that one has
probably not yet been built.]"...Bruce.
Bruce: I was wondering if that "...computer generated image of a
Superbrick which many around here are familiar" might be the CAD 3D
Studio Max, or possible the Direct X version, which I made? I had sent
the both the game version and the 3D version to Bolger a couple of
years ago, so that he could use it if he liked.
Here is a shot of the my CAD version:
http://www.put.com/~proto57/superbrick4.jpg
Does it look the same? I don't know if you have Virtual Sailor, but if
you are familiar with the boat, the "NY CL-ARE 7" registration number
is actually my daughter's name and age at the time I made the boat.
The blanket on the bunk is an actual design I did, which ended up as a
Sears throw blanket. The radio direction finder is made from a photo
of one in my collection... a 1960's Nova-Tech Pilot II.
I think you are correct in your assessment that the boat has not been
built yet.
Check out my Chum Bucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
There are links to Virtual Sailor, if anyone is interested in
"sailing" a Superbrick on thier computer. Rich SantaColoma
Superbrick which many around here are familiar. [Which implies that
Bolger does not have a real photo of a Superbrick, and that one has
probably not yet been built.]"...Bruce.
Bruce: I was wondering if that "...computer generated image of a
Superbrick which many around here are familiar" might be the CAD 3D
Studio Max, or possible the Direct X version, which I made? I had sent
the both the game version and the 3D version to Bolger a couple of
years ago, so that he could use it if he liked.
Here is a shot of the my CAD version:
http://www.put.com/~proto57/superbrick4.jpg
Does it look the same? I don't know if you have Virtual Sailor, but if
you are familiar with the boat, the "NY CL-ARE 7" registration number
is actually my daughter's name and age at the time I made the boat.
The blanket on the bunk is an actual design I did, which ended up as a
Sears throw blanket. The radio direction finder is made from a photo
of one in my collection... a 1960's Nova-Tech Pilot II.
I think you are correct in your assessment that the boat has not been
built yet.
Check out my Chum Bucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
There are links to Virtual Sailor, if anyone is interested in
"sailing" a Superbrick on thier computer. Rich SantaColoma
Bill,
Cascamite (and another version called Extramite) is now made by Humbrol,
and when I Googled the name last night, there is plenty of info about it.
It still is available from many UK sources, and is not too expensive.
It does need a reasonably close fit, plus several hours clamping, to work,
and it is not what I would call gap-filling. It is totally waterproof when
set and I have never had any joints coming apart, although I always used
brass screws as well as the glue.
I stopped boatbuilding some 30 years ago, as life seemed to get into the
way, but I have started again recently, and have acquired plans for several
boats, including a SF Pelican, not to mention some form of Mouse.
Lately I have been using a foaming PU gapfilling glue, bought from our
local ironmonger's, but I mean to get a big tin of Cascamite in the near
future.
Alvan.
Cascamite (and another version called Extramite) is now made by Humbrol,
and when I Googled the name last night, there is plenty of info about it.
It still is available from many UK sources, and is not too expensive.
It does need a reasonably close fit, plus several hours clamping, to work,
and it is not what I would call gap-filling. It is totally waterproof when
set and I have never had any joints coming apart, although I always used
brass screws as well as the glue.
I stopped boatbuilding some 30 years ago, as life seemed to get into the
way, but I have started again recently, and have acquired plans for several
boats, including a SF Pelican, not to mention some form of Mouse.
Lately I have been using a foaming PU gapfilling glue, bought from our
local ironmonger's, but I mean to get a big tin of Cascamite in the near
future.
Alvan.
In a message dated 4/12/05 12:09:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
ALVAN_EAMES@...writes:
So nice to hear from you! I have some questions:
1) "is/was called "Cascamite" -
a) have you stopped building boats?
b) if so, were "Cascamite" glue failures a reason for
quitting?
c) if not, what adhesive do you now use?
d) if not "Cascamite," why not?
e) does "Cascamite" require near-perfect joints, etc., as
my "ebenista'" claimed?
2) Is this glue still available it the U.K. ?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ALVAN_EAMES@...writes:
> I write from England. The powdered glue you speak of is/was calledHello, Alvan!
> "Cascamite", and I have used it in the building of several boats.
>
> It is a urea glue, not a resorcinol (a two part glue, with a separate
> hardener).
>
So nice to hear from you! I have some questions:
1) "is/was called "Cascamite" -
a) have you stopped building boats?
b) if so, were "Cascamite" glue failures a reason for
quitting?
c) if not, what adhesive do you now use?
d) if not "Cascamite," why not?
e) does "Cascamite" require near-perfect joints, etc., as
my "ebenista'" claimed?
2) Is this glue still available it the U.K. ?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What is the current building reward for a super brick? Might be getting
close to economic parity.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
close to economic parity.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>Take a "Fast Brick" without the foreshoe (i.e. like Brick, but no
>>rocker aft, and extended to say 12 feet). Build it four times.
>>Stefan
>>
>>
>
>I personally am impressed that Phil Bolger 'likes' the Superbrick
>design. Coming from a no-nonsense free thinking man with
>such experience, 'liking it' is a significant thing.
>
>The Superbrick is subject of our humor at times, and I am
>more guilty if this than most.
>
>Though, consider that owners of 'Brick' and 'Tortoise' uniformly
>praise those boats, including their ability to sail.
>
>It appears the biggest problem with Superbrick is that it is a
>lousy investment, not that it lacks capability as a boat.
>
>
>
I would suggest that the problem with SuperBrick is that it consumes as much in materials and labor as a longer, more competent boat with better resale value. But that's just me.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger on Superbrick
> Take a "Fast Brick" without the foreshoe (i.e. like Brick, but no
> rocker aft, and extended to say 12 feet). Build it four times.
> Stefan
I personally am impressed that Phil Bolger 'likes' the Superbrick
design. Coming from a no-nonsense free thinking man with
such experience, 'liking it' is a significant thing.
The Superbrick is subject of our humor at times, and I am
more guilty if this than most.
Though, consider that owners of 'Brick' and 'Tortoise' uniformly
praise those boats, including their ability to sail.
It appears the biggest problem with Superbrick is that it is a
lousy investment, not that it lacks capability as a boat.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Re-sell value? That is low with most self-made boats.
Attraction? Few boats will get that much attention than a Superbrick.
Space? There are probably few boats where you get as much space for
that little money.
Ability as a boat? You write above that this is not the problem.
If it would be possible to build a Superbrick-like boat in a modular
way, then you could get pretty much all of Superbrick's advantages,
but can spend the investment (in labour and money) at your own pace.
You can stop at any time when you feel that the return of investment
(in fun or whatever else) gets too low. With an aborted "normal"
construction, you have scrap left. With an aborted "modular"
construction, you have a usable boat left.
BTW, I fogot one more option:
Add a "bridge" of 4 to 8 width between the two pairs of Brick-Moduls
and you get a catamaran of 12 to 16' beam. Means: You start with a
long 12x4 Long Brick and end up with a 32x16 Cat.
Would be interesting to know what kind of sea conditions such a beast
could handle, and how strong the modules would need to be built.
Cheers,
Stefan
> The Superbrick is subject of our humor at times, and I amI think Bolger himself makes fun of this design.
> more guilty if this than most.
> It appears the biggest problem with Superbrick is that it is aInvestment in terms of what?
> lousy investment, not that it lacks capability as a boat.
Re-sell value? That is low with most self-made boats.
Attraction? Few boats will get that much attention than a Superbrick.
Space? There are probably few boats where you get as much space for
that little money.
Ability as a boat? You write above that this is not the problem.
If it would be possible to build a Superbrick-like boat in a modular
way, then you could get pretty much all of Superbrick's advantages,
but can spend the investment (in labour and money) at your own pace.
You can stop at any time when you feel that the return of investment
(in fun or whatever else) gets too low. With an aborted "normal"
construction, you have scrap left. With an aborted "modular"
construction, you have a usable boat left.
BTW, I fogot one more option:
Add a "bridge" of 4 to 8 width between the two pairs of Brick-Moduls
and you get a catamaran of 12 to 16' beam. Means: You start with a
long 12x4 Long Brick and end up with a 32x16 Cat.
Would be interesting to know what kind of sea conditions such a beast
could handle, and how strong the modules would need to be built.
Cheers,
Stefan
> Take a "Fast Brick" without the foreshoe (i.e. like Brick, but noI personally am impressed that Phil Bolger 'likes' the Superbrick
> rocker aft, and extended to say 12 feet). Build it four times.
> Stefan
design. Coming from a no-nonsense free thinking man with
such experience, 'liking it' is a significant thing.
The Superbrick is subject of our humor at times, and I am
more guilty if this than most.
Though, consider that owners of 'Brick' and 'Tortoise' uniformly
praise those boats, including their ability to sail.
It appears the biggest problem with Superbrick is that it is a
lousy investment, not that it lacks capability as a boat.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Take a "Fast Brick" without the foreshoe (i.e. like Brick, but no
rocker aft, and extended to say 12 feet). Build it four times. All of
them small enough and easy to transport. Add holes to mate them with
bolts, TIMS-like. Not only at stern, but also at the sides. Gives you
those assembly options:
1) 12' x 4' Long Brick (i.e. one module)
2) 24' x 4' Schooner Brick (i.e. two modules, aft to aft)
3) 24' x 8' Maxi Brick (i.e. four modules)
4) 32' x 8' Mega Brick (add two TIMS modules in the middle)
Note how your boat can grow while you build more modules.
OK, "small" ;) problem is superstructure. How to make that one
modular?
If height of a module is less than about 6'6" (?), it could be
transported lying on its side....
And it would still be in "Superbrick Spirit" (or even in Super
Spirit;)
Cheers,
Stefan
> I sent PCB a letter and sketch of a modification to the hullWhat about that:
> of Superbrick where I cut back the chines (to narrow the center
> portion of the bottom) to allow the hull to better nestle
> between the wheels of a trailer.
Take a "Fast Brick" without the foreshoe (i.e. like Brick, but no
rocker aft, and extended to say 12 feet). Build it four times. All of
them small enough and easy to transport. Add holes to mate them with
bolts, TIMS-like. Not only at stern, but also at the sides. Gives you
those assembly options:
1) 12' x 4' Long Brick (i.e. one module)
2) 24' x 4' Schooner Brick (i.e. two modules, aft to aft)
3) 24' x 8' Maxi Brick (i.e. four modules)
4) 32' x 8' Mega Brick (add two TIMS modules in the middle)
Note how your boat can grow while you build more modules.
OK, "small" ;) problem is superstructure. How to make that one
modular?
If height of a module is less than about 6'6" (?), it could be
transported lying on its side....
And it would still be in "Superbrick Spirit" (or even in Super
Spirit;)
Cheers,
Stefan
Bill,
I write from England. The powdered glue you speak of is/was called
"Cascamite", and I have used it in the building of several boats.
It is a urea glue, not a resorcinol (a two part glue, with a separate
hardener).
Alvan.
I write from England. The powdered glue you speak of is/was called
"Cascamite", and I have used it in the building of several boats.
It is a urea glue, not a resorcinol (a two part glue, with a separate
hardener).
Alvan.
I sent a PCB a letter and sketch of a modification to the hull of Superbrick
where I cut back the chines (to narrow the center portion of the bottom)
to allow the hull to better nestle between the wheels of a trailer.
This was his reply to me:
"April 6, 2005
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for yours of 4/1/05. Plans of Superbrick Design #559, are
available for $200.00 to build one boat, sent priority mail, rolled in
a tube. I continue to like it though it seems unlikely that it is a
good investment... .
The proposed narrowed bottom may be an improvement, though I think it
has to be 6'6" not 7'0", to work as suggested, and I have not (and
can't anytime soon, as we're at full stretch to exhaustion with work)
looked at the consequences to the cabin and construction. On the
whole, I'd be inclined to build it as designed or (probably smarter)
not at all. It would at any rate fit your old Sausalito houseboat
culture!
Sincerely Phil Bolger"
He also sent along a copy of that computer generated image of a
Superbrick which many around here are familiar. [Which implies that
Bolger does not have a real photo of a Superbrick, and that one has
probably not yet been built.]
where I cut back the chines (to narrow the center portion of the bottom)
to allow the hull to better nestle between the wheels of a trailer.
This was his reply to me:
"April 6, 2005
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for yours of 4/1/05. Plans of Superbrick Design #559, are
available for $200.00 to build one boat, sent priority mail, rolled in
a tube. I continue to like it though it seems unlikely that it is a
good investment... .
The proposed narrowed bottom may be an improvement, though I think it
has to be 6'6" not 7'0", to work as suggested, and I have not (and
can't anytime soon, as we're at full stretch to exhaustion with work)
looked at the consequences to the cabin and construction. On the
whole, I'd be inclined to build it as designed or (probably smarter)
not at all. It would at any rate fit your old Sausalito houseboat
culture!
Sincerely Phil Bolger"
He also sent along a copy of that computer generated image of a
Superbrick which many around here are familiar. [Which implies that
Bolger does not have a real photo of a Superbrick, and that one has
probably not yet been built.]
Weldwood is not resorcinol which is usually a two part glue. Both
require good joinery and clamping and are not gap filling. They do not
fail if used right but are not tolerant of mistakes. Weldwood is very
inexpensive and easy to mix and clean up. My father always used it and
claimed 0 failures including glued up spruce spars that were still in
hard (SF Bay) use 30 years after construction.
HJ
wmrpage@...wrote:
require good joinery and clamping and are not gap filling. They do not
fail if used right but are not tolerant of mistakes. Weldwood is very
inexpensive and easy to mix and clean up. My father always used it and
claimed 0 failures including glued up spruce spars that were still in
hard (SF Bay) use 30 years after construction.
HJ
wmrpage@...wrote:
>In a message dated 4/11/05 11:32:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
>arbordg@...writes:
>
>
>
>>I used to use a
>>little bit of the Weldwood (resorcinol?) glue - came in a tin as a
>>powder to be mixed with water.
>>
>>
>
>I helped build some big wooden holding tanks for an oyster-rearing operation
>in France long ago. We used something similar, perhaps the same stuff. I don't
>recall the brand - its was British, and it was a resorcinol glue. The guy I
>worked with was a very highly skilled "ebeniste." He praised the properties of
>this glue. He swore that if a couple of pieces of wood were properly joined
>with the stuff and left out to weather, when the wood was all gone, the glue
>line would still be there! But he also made a fetish out of extremely well
>fitted, carefully finished, perfectly clean, well designed and tightly clamped
>joints. He rightly sized me up as a contemptible "bricoleur" and did all of the
>joinery himself, insisting that the joints would certainly fail if I did much
>more than tote the lumber and tighten the clamps and, even then, only under his
>very close supervision. He didn't use any fillers or thickeners - just added
>water and the stuff was pretty runny when mixed. The glue lines were purplish in
>color, perfectly uniform and very, very thin. The excess that oozed out of
>the seams was quite brittle after it cured. I would guess it had absolutely zero
>gap-filling capability. He may have exaggerated a bit for my benefit, but he
>was a very friendly man and seemed genuinely motivated to try to remedy my
>lack of education. Anyway, he did such a good job of persuaded me that I would
>only meet with disaster, if I were to rely on that powdered glue, unless I
>served a long apprenticeship, that I've never tried it since!
>
>Ciao for Niao,
>Bill in MN
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
In a message dated 4/11/05 11:32:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
arbordg@...writes:
in France long ago. We used something similar, perhaps the same stuff. I don't
recall the brand - its was British, and it was a resorcinol glue. The guy I
worked with was a very highly skilled "ebeniste." He praised the properties of
this glue. He swore that if a couple of pieces of wood were properly joined
with the stuff and left out to weather, when the wood was all gone, the glue
line would still be there! But he also made a fetish out of extremely well
fitted, carefully finished, perfectly clean, well designed and tightly clamped
joints. He rightly sized me up as a contemptible "bricoleur" and did all of the
joinery himself, insisting that the joints would certainly fail if I did much
more than tote the lumber and tighten the clamps and, even then, only under his
very close supervision. He didn't use any fillers or thickeners - just added
water and the stuff was pretty runny when mixed. The glue lines were purplish in
color, perfectly uniform and very, very thin. The excess that oozed out of
the seams was quite brittle after it cured. I would guess it had absolutely zero
gap-filling capability. He may have exaggerated a bit for my benefit, but he
was a very friendly man and seemed genuinely motivated to try to remedy my
lack of education. Anyway, he did such a good job of persuaded me that I would
only meet with disaster, if I were to rely on that powdered glue, unless I
served a long apprenticeship, that I've never tried it since!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arbordg@...writes:
> I used to use aI helped build some big wooden holding tanks for an oyster-rearing operation
> little bit of the Weldwood (resorcinol?) glue - came in a tin as a
> powder to be mixed with water.
in France long ago. We used something similar, perhaps the same stuff. I don't
recall the brand - its was British, and it was a resorcinol glue. The guy I
worked with was a very highly skilled "ebeniste." He praised the properties of
this glue. He swore that if a couple of pieces of wood were properly joined
with the stuff and left out to weather, when the wood was all gone, the glue
line would still be there! But he also made a fetish out of extremely well
fitted, carefully finished, perfectly clean, well designed and tightly clamped
joints. He rightly sized me up as a contemptible "bricoleur" and did all of the
joinery himself, insisting that the joints would certainly fail if I did much
more than tote the lumber and tighten the clamps and, even then, only under his
very close supervision. He didn't use any fillers or thickeners - just added
water and the stuff was pretty runny when mixed. The glue lines were purplish in
color, perfectly uniform and very, very thin. The excess that oozed out of
the seams was quite brittle after it cured. I would guess it had absolutely zero
gap-filling capability. He may have exaggerated a bit for my benefit, but he
was a very friendly man and seemed genuinely motivated to try to remedy my
lack of education. Anyway, he did such a good job of persuaded me that I would
only meet with disaster, if I were to rely on that powdered glue, unless I
served a long apprenticeship, that I've never tried it since!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fritz cracked the text for the puffer article yesterday and I can foward
it in either word or open office format.
HJ
it in either word or open office format.
HJ
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, wmrpage@a... wrote: <SNIP>
allows me to use up the leftovers from previous projects. Still, an
adhesive that wouldn't require measuring and mixing, not to mention
dealing with pot life, would be a wonderful boon. I've thought of
using 3M 5200, but my limited experience with the stuff suggests that
it's cure is very temperature and humidity dependent. I've never had
occasion to try to sand the cured stuff, but I suspect it is pretty
professional work you do?
Hi Bill,
Though I'm a longtime professional woodworker, I'm a real neophyte
when it comes to backyard boatbuilding. Therefore, I know very little
about the various 3M marine products. Almost used the 5200 to attach
the SS halfoval to the face of the stem on the small skiff we're
building. Decided I might want to remove it without tearing up the
boat, so went with 4200. I've seen other posts that said the 5200 was
a miserable mess to sand. Epoxy I have used for decades. I latched
onto it for exterior architectural woodworking applications when West
System first came out. Have used their products exclusively until
building this boat. We're using RAKA for the Goat Island Skiff, and
are very happy with it. Compared to West System it seems to be
cheaper, less stinky, less blush, and I like the 2:1 ratio. Seems to
fare well in the various testing I've seen. For our client's projects,
we use Titebond II for interiors that Might Be exposed to some
moisture. We use epoxy for exterior or wet interior projects (eg.
cold-molded shower stall). I hope that Titebond III turns out to be
the real deal. It would make out life much simpler - cheaper, no
mixing, long shelf-life, and any employee is familiar with this type
of glue (epoxy is a little more arcane & specialized). I used to use a
little bit of the Weldwood (resorcinol?) glue - came in a tin as a
powder to be mixed with water. I never had it fail, but did hear some
stories. Then I saw another shop replace a mess of bent-laminated
beams made with it. I don't use it any more. Polyurethane glue I don't
use. It's too expensive, finicky, Messy, and unproven. And did I
mention Messy? Bottom line: I use epoxy, and wait for T-III to prove
itself. Hope that's somewhat useful.
Cheers & Beers,
David Graybeal
Arbor Woodworks
Portland, OR.
"A man begins cutting his wisdom teeth the first time he bites off
more than he can chew" - Herb Caen
>Their products have given me good performance in the past and this
> I've stocked up on West epoxy and fillers for my latest project.
allows me to use up the leftovers from previous projects. Still, an
adhesive that wouldn't require measuring and mixing, not to mention
dealing with pot life, would be a wonderful boon. I've thought of
using 3M 5200, but my limited experience with the stuff suggests that
it's cure is very temperature and humidity dependent. I've never had
occasion to try to sand the cured stuff, but I suspect it is pretty
> miserable in that respect. How does a professional like you evaluatethese products? What do you use instead of Titebond III for the
professional work you do?
>********************
> Ciao for Niao,
> Bill in MN
>
Hi Bill,
Though I'm a longtime professional woodworker, I'm a real neophyte
when it comes to backyard boatbuilding. Therefore, I know very little
about the various 3M marine products. Almost used the 5200 to attach
the SS halfoval to the face of the stem on the small skiff we're
building. Decided I might want to remove it without tearing up the
boat, so went with 4200. I've seen other posts that said the 5200 was
a miserable mess to sand. Epoxy I have used for decades. I latched
onto it for exterior architectural woodworking applications when West
System first came out. Have used their products exclusively until
building this boat. We're using RAKA for the Goat Island Skiff, and
are very happy with it. Compared to West System it seems to be
cheaper, less stinky, less blush, and I like the 2:1 ratio. Seems to
fare well in the various testing I've seen. For our client's projects,
we use Titebond II for interiors that Might Be exposed to some
moisture. We use epoxy for exterior or wet interior projects (eg.
cold-molded shower stall). I hope that Titebond III turns out to be
the real deal. It would make out life much simpler - cheaper, no
mixing, long shelf-life, and any employee is familiar with this type
of glue (epoxy is a little more arcane & specialized). I used to use a
little bit of the Weldwood (resorcinol?) glue - came in a tin as a
powder to be mixed with water. I never had it fail, but did hear some
stories. Then I saw another shop replace a mess of bent-laminated
beams made with it. I don't use it any more. Polyurethane glue I don't
use. It's too expensive, finicky, Messy, and unproven. And did I
mention Messy? Bottom line: I use epoxy, and wait for T-III to prove
itself. Hope that's somewhat useful.
Cheers & Beers,
David Graybeal
Arbor Woodworks
Portland, OR.
"A man begins cutting his wisdom teeth the first time he bites off
more than he can chew" - Herb Caen
> > "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" -A time machine would be required to go back and hear it for sure.
> > Niels Bohr (atomic physicist)
> >
> P.S. Are you sure this quote is properly attributed?
Certainly is it commonly attributed to Neils Bohr,
in addition to several other witticisms.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/niels_bohr.html
In a message dated 4/8/05 6:57:01 PM Central Daylight Time,arbordg@...
writes:
products have given me good performance in the past and this allows me to use up the
leftovers from previous projects. Still, an adhesive that wouldn't require
measuring and mixing, not to mention dealing with pot life, would be a wonderful
boon. I've thought of using 3M 5200, but my limited experience with the stuff
suggests that it's cure is very temperature and humidity dependent. I've
never had occasion to try to sand the cured stuff, but I suspect it is pretty
miserable in that respect. How does a professional like you evaluate these
products? What do you use instead of Titebond III for the professional work you do?
something Yogi Berra (baseball anthropologist) would have been credited with (with
the assistance of N.Y. sportswriters, always willing to augment his legend)
than something that Niels Bohr would have said, even if he actually spoke
vernacular English!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> As far as I'm concerned, the juries still out. I own an architecturalI've stocked up on West epoxy and fillers for my latest project. Their
> woodwork firm. I've used a lot of Titebond &TitebondII over the
> years. I trust their products. Have been using III since it came out"
products have given me good performance in the past and this allows me to use up the
leftovers from previous projects. Still, an adhesive that wouldn't require
measuring and mixing, not to mention dealing with pot life, would be a wonderful
boon. I've thought of using 3M 5200, but my limited experience with the stuff
suggests that it's cure is very temperature and humidity dependent. I've
never had occasion to try to sand the cured stuff, but I suspect it is pretty
miserable in that respect. How does a professional like you evaluate these
products? What do you use instead of Titebond III for the professional work you do?
> "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" -P.S. Are you sure this quote is properly attributed? It sounds more like
> Niels Bohr (atomic physicist)
>
something Yogi Berra (baseball anthropologist) would have been credited with (with
the assistance of N.Y. sportswriters, always willing to augment his legend)
than something that Niels Bohr would have said, even if he actually spoke
vernacular English!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "chodges31711" <chodges@a...> wrote:
Hi Charles,
As far as I'm concerned, the juries still out. I own an architectural
woodwork firm. I've used a lot of Titebond & TitebondII over the
years. I trust their products. Have been using III since it came out -
on some personal products. Have also thrown some panels out in the
back field to weather. So far, so good. I've seen a few posts from
people who've done more active demolition testing. They're all happy.
Maybe the folks who aren't just haven't posted yet? Or maybe it's just
a good goo. I'm leaning toward believing it's a good boat glue. I've
even used a little recently (in some non-critical locations) on the
plywood sailing dinghy we're building. But, would I use it exclusively
on a project with a lot of labor invested? No, not yet. I certainly
wouldn't use it on a clients project - at least not somewhere
critical. Sometimes it takes years for the failings of a "new &
improved" version to become evident. If it proves out, it'll become an
important part of our arsenal - for the reasons you stated.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" -
Niels Bohr (atomic physicist)
>****************
> Has anyone used Titebond III? It passes a boiling test and is non-
> toxic/water clean up. Works down to 47 deg.F
>
>http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
>
> Not cheap but comparable cost and easy to use.
>
> Charles
Hi Charles,
As far as I'm concerned, the juries still out. I own an architectural
woodwork firm. I've used a lot of Titebond & TitebondII over the
years. I trust their products. Have been using III since it came out -
on some personal products. Have also thrown some panels out in the
back field to weather. So far, so good. I've seen a few posts from
people who've done more active demolition testing. They're all happy.
Maybe the folks who aren't just haven't posted yet? Or maybe it's just
a good goo. I'm leaning toward believing it's a good boat glue. I've
even used a little recently (in some non-critical locations) on the
plywood sailing dinghy we're building. But, would I use it exclusively
on a project with a lot of labor invested? No, not yet. I certainly
wouldn't use it on a clients project - at least not somewhere
critical. Sometimes it takes years for the failings of a "new &
improved" version to become evident. If it proves out, it'll become an
important part of our arsenal - for the reasons you stated.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" -
Niels Bohr (atomic physicist)
Has anyone used Titebond III? It passes a boiling test and is non-
toxic/water clean up. Works down to 47 deg.F
http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
Not cheap but comparable cost and easy to use.
Charles
toxic/water clean up. Works down to 47 deg.F
http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
Not cheap but comparable cost and easy to use.
Charles