Re:Chines
Dear all
This method of construction is standard practice when constructing an English narrow canal boat(7ft beam) for the same reasons - ease of construction and side plate protection.Current standard is 10mm bottom plate and 6mm side plates.Boat lengths vary from 72ft max down to 20ft.Although the original commercial size was 72ft(20tons capacity) 57ft is the common size these days since this is the 'go anywhere' size and enables you to use all the broad canal system as well.
PCB designed a 45ft sailboat suitable for the narrow system - Weston Martyr - but I don't think that this has been built as yet.Although narrowboats have been taken to sea - 'Narrowdog to Carcassonne',and it's sequel 'Narrowdog to Indian River' give an entertaining account of this -the only ones I know that were sailed commercially were the Chesterfield Canal 'Cuckoos'.Even this would be infrequent in the last 50 years of commercial service,most operators preferring to use tidal assistance or a tow to get up the river Trent to the canal to Lincoln,although one family of operators were reputed to take theirs to sea from Boston across the Wash.
This would not solve the chine problem however as the 'Cuckoos' were built of wood.The only steel sailing barges I know of with square steel chines would be the Thames 'Ironpots',but these were built of rivetted construction so the bottom plate would probably not protrude.
cheers
Andy Airey
This method of construction is standard practice when constructing an English narrow canal boat(7ft beam) for the same reasons - ease of construction and side plate protection.Current standard is 10mm bottom plate and 6mm side plates.Boat lengths vary from 72ft max down to 20ft.Although the original commercial size was 72ft(20tons capacity) 57ft is the common size these days since this is the 'go anywhere' size and enables you to use all the broad canal system as well.
PCB designed a 45ft sailboat suitable for the narrow system - Weston Martyr - but I don't think that this has been built as yet.Although narrowboats have been taken to sea - 'Narrowdog to Carcassonne',and it's sequel 'Narrowdog to Indian River' give an entertaining account of this -the only ones I know that were sailed commercially were the Chesterfield Canal 'Cuckoos'.Even this would be infrequent in the last 50 years of commercial service,most operators preferring to use tidal assistance or a tow to get up the river Trent to the canal to Lincoln,although one family of operators were reputed to take theirs to sea from Boston across the Wash.
This would not solve the chine problem however as the 'Cuckoos' were built of wood.The only steel sailing barges I know of with square steel chines would be the Thames 'Ironpots',but these were built of rivetted construction so the bottom plate would probably not protrude.
cheers
Andy Airey
> do you mean the Database list in this group,That would be
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/database
and I remind everyone that this database is
collectively maintained, that is, *everybody*
is encouraged to use it and add to it, no one
is in charge...honor system, so to speak.
John,
do you mean the Database list in this group, or perhaps
Maximo's derivative:
http://www.promax.com.ar/bolger/completelist.htm
Maximo's is without design numbers, but is real nice to
alphabetically scroll through.
Perhaps you meant the Bolger boats and books list at Craig
O'donnell's Cheap Pages:
http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/boat/bolger.html#Boats
or Tim Fatchen's Bolger Boats On The Web:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm#start
If there are other on-line PCB&F lists then I'm with you in asking
if someone will kindly post the URL.... :-)
regards
graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "freshairfiend" <jldalziel@e...>
wrote:
do you mean the Database list in this group, or perhaps
Maximo's derivative:
http://www.promax.com.ar/bolger/completelist.htm
Maximo's is without design numbers, but is real nice to
alphabetically scroll through.
Perhaps you meant the Bolger boats and books list at Craig
O'donnell's Cheap Pages:
http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/boat/bolger.html#Boats
or Tim Fatchen's Bolger Boats On The Web:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm#start
If there are other on-line PCB&F lists then I'm with you in asking
if someone will kindly post the URL.... :-)
regards
graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "freshairfiend" <jldalziel@e...>
wrote:
> I was thinking of Romp and Alert, primarily, and perhaps also theor
> slightly larger motorsailer Ataraxia. Bolger has several designs in
> this size range though, and somewhere on-line there is a complete
> reasonably complete list of his work that is worth checking out, ifwrote:
> someone will kindly post the URL... :-)
>
> John Dalziel
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...>
> > John,
> > What other boats are you suggesting?
> >
> > Gene T.
I was thinking of Romp and Alert, primarily, and perhaps also the
slightly larger motorsailer Ataraxia. Bolger has several designs in
this size range though, and somewhere on-line there is a complete or
reasonably complete list of his work that is worth checking out, if
someone will kindly post the URL... :-)
John Dalziel
slightly larger motorsailer Ataraxia. Bolger has several designs in
this size range though, and somewhere on-line there is a complete or
reasonably complete list of his work that is worth checking out, if
someone will kindly post the URL... :-)
John Dalziel
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...> wrote:
> John,
> What other boats are you suggesting?
>
> Gene T.
John,
What other boats are you suggesting?
Gene T.
--- freshairfiend <jldalziel@...> wrote:
What other boats are you suggesting?
Gene T.
--- freshairfiend <jldalziel@...> wrote:
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/_0TolB/TM
>
> I'm the owner of the AS-29 "Zoella," that Frank
> mentioned, and it was
> built *very* close to spec. I heavily glassed the
> corners of the
> bilgeboard cases in 2001, when I bought and rebuilt
> the boat, and they
> haven't leaked since. The ends of the cases are the
> most important
> place to reinforce with several layers of glass, but
> be sure to
> glass-sheath the strip of ply bottom on the outboard
> edge of the case
> *completely* (top, side and bottom) or water will
> flow along the ply
> grain into your chines and break open the chine
> tapes. It isn't a big
> deal to get this right during construction (and you
> wouldn't go wrong
> using Kevlar tape on the chines, either).
>
> However, on haulout last year I found worm damage in
> the vertical
> frames that make up the insides of the bilgeboard
> cases, where they
> rub against the boards. This will be extremely
> difficult to fix, if it
> ever gets to the point that the frames need to be
> replaced. So if you
> do build, make up these beams from laminated strips
> and glass them
> heavily. There is no easy access into the cases once
> they are built.
>
> Also, the aluminum-framed, ply-faced bilgeboard
> design is just plain
> nuts, since you will almost undoubtedly need to use
> copper bottom
> paint on the rest of the boat, and this isn't a good
> combination. My
> boards are showing considerable galvanic erosion,
> particularly at the
> hubs, and I am *not* using copper paint on the
> aluminum.
>
> So all in all, I would seriously look at a leeboard
> option...
>
> That being said- and I've lived aboard and sailed
> Zoella since
> December 2001, so I think I have enough practical
> experience with the
> boat to have a valid point of view here- why,
> specifically, are you
> considering building this design? Structurally the
> boat is quite
> comlex, so while it will not take any extraordinary
> skill to build, it
> will not save you any time, either. In my opinion it
> offers no
> advantages over several similar-sized shoal-draft
> Bolger designs with
> more conventional hulls, and the ultra simple hull
> form + cat-yawl rig
> has several major drawbacks that restrict what you
> will want to do
> with the boat.
>
> Living-wise, the interior is amazingly good, but the
> same or nearly
> the same arrangement could be put into a better hull
> with little
> difficulty. The deck arrangement is not particularly
> handy for a solo
> sailor, either. As for the rig, it is fine for
> daysailing, but is also
> a bloody handful off-wind, and a tired sailor will
> not happily
> anticipate fighting with the large mainsail.
>
> Don't get me wrong here- I like Zoella a lot, and
> she's miles better
> than plastic production boats anywhere near her
> size- but she's not
> nearly an ideal boat to cover distance in- and
> Bolger offers several
> shoal-draft boats near her size that would probably
> fill the bill
> better than the AS-29, without sacrificing any of
> the AS-29's
> advantages. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a decent
> AS-29 if I found it on
> the market, but if I were building, I would go for a
> more versatile
> design, or commission a new one.
>
> John Dalziel
>
>
>
>
>
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Don't give up on the bend without trying. Get a stick of the chine stock you intend to use, clamp part of it to the edge of a workbench and try and bend it to your radius. Then run it partway (beyond the bendy section) through a tablesaw once on each plane to cut an "X" kerf down the middle. Might just work...
If laminating you may find you will be better off trying with four square strips because you are bending in two directions.
Rick
"Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@...> wrote:
Well, the part that I'm trying to figure out how to bend matches those
diminsions, yes :-)
I guess I'll have to play with stitch and glue... was just really
wanting to avoid the epoxy route, but I'm not sure its feasible.
Thanks for all the answers... I learn a lot here.
Bruce
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If laminating you may find you will be better off trying with four square strips because you are bending in two directions.
Rick
"Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@...> wrote:
Well, the part that I'm trying to figure out how to bend matches those
diminsions, yes :-)
I guess I'll have to play with stitch and glue... was just really
wanting to avoid the epoxy route, but I'm not sure its feasible.
Thanks for all the answers... I learn a lot here.
Bruce
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm the owner of the AS-29 "Zoella," that Frank mentioned, and it was
built *very* close to spec. I heavily glassed the corners of the
bilgeboard cases in 2001, when I bought and rebuilt the boat, and they
haven't leaked since. The ends of the cases are the most important
place to reinforce with several layers of glass, but be sure to
glass-sheath the strip of ply bottom on the outboard edge of the case
*completely* (top, side and bottom) or water will flow along the ply
grain into your chines and break open the chine tapes. It isn't a big
deal to get this right during construction (and you wouldn't go wrong
using Kevlar tape on the chines, either).
However, on haulout last year I found worm damage in the vertical
frames that make up the insides of the bilgeboard cases, where they
rub against the boards. This will be extremely difficult to fix, if it
ever gets to the point that the frames need to be replaced. So if you
do build, make up these beams from laminated strips and glass them
heavily. There is no easy access into the cases once they are built.
Also, the aluminum-framed, ply-faced bilgeboard design is just plain
nuts, since you will almost undoubtedly need to use copper bottom
paint on the rest of the boat, and this isn't a good combination. My
boards are showing considerable galvanic erosion, particularly at the
hubs, and I am *not* using copper paint on the aluminum.
So all in all, I would seriously look at a leeboard option...
That being said- and I've lived aboard and sailed Zoella since
December 2001, so I think I have enough practical experience with the
boat to have a valid point of view here- why, specifically, are you
considering building this design? Structurally the boat is quite
comlex, so while it will not take any extraordinary skill to build, it
will not save you any time, either. In my opinion it offers no
advantages over several similar-sized shoal-draft Bolger designs with
more conventional hulls, and the ultra simple hull form + cat-yawl rig
has several major drawbacks that restrict what you will want to do
with the boat.
Living-wise, the interior is amazingly good, but the same or nearly
the same arrangement could be put into a better hull with little
difficulty. The deck arrangement is not particularly handy for a solo
sailor, either. As for the rig, it is fine for daysailing, but is also
a bloody handful off-wind, and a tired sailor will not happily
anticipate fighting with the large mainsail.
Don't get me wrong here- I like Zoella a lot, and she's miles better
than plastic production boats anywhere near her size- but she's not
nearly an ideal boat to cover distance in- and Bolger offers several
shoal-draft boats near her size that would probably fill the bill
better than the AS-29, without sacrificing any of the AS-29's
advantages. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a decent AS-29 if I found it on
the market, but if I were building, I would go for a more versatile
design, or commission a new one.
John Dalziel
built *very* close to spec. I heavily glassed the corners of the
bilgeboard cases in 2001, when I bought and rebuilt the boat, and they
haven't leaked since. The ends of the cases are the most important
place to reinforce with several layers of glass, but be sure to
glass-sheath the strip of ply bottom on the outboard edge of the case
*completely* (top, side and bottom) or water will flow along the ply
grain into your chines and break open the chine tapes. It isn't a big
deal to get this right during construction (and you wouldn't go wrong
using Kevlar tape on the chines, either).
However, on haulout last year I found worm damage in the vertical
frames that make up the insides of the bilgeboard cases, where they
rub against the boards. This will be extremely difficult to fix, if it
ever gets to the point that the frames need to be replaced. So if you
do build, make up these beams from laminated strips and glass them
heavily. There is no easy access into the cases once they are built.
Also, the aluminum-framed, ply-faced bilgeboard design is just plain
nuts, since you will almost undoubtedly need to use copper bottom
paint on the rest of the boat, and this isn't a good combination. My
boards are showing considerable galvanic erosion, particularly at the
hubs, and I am *not* using copper paint on the aluminum.
So all in all, I would seriously look at a leeboard option...
That being said- and I've lived aboard and sailed Zoella since
December 2001, so I think I have enough practical experience with the
boat to have a valid point of view here- why, specifically, are you
considering building this design? Structurally the boat is quite
comlex, so while it will not take any extraordinary skill to build, it
will not save you any time, either. In my opinion it offers no
advantages over several similar-sized shoal-draft Bolger designs with
more conventional hulls, and the ultra simple hull form + cat-yawl rig
has several major drawbacks that restrict what you will want to do
with the boat.
Living-wise, the interior is amazingly good, but the same or nearly
the same arrangement could be put into a better hull with little
difficulty. The deck arrangement is not particularly handy for a solo
sailor, either. As for the rig, it is fine for daysailing, but is also
a bloody handful off-wind, and a tired sailor will not happily
anticipate fighting with the large mainsail.
Don't get me wrong here- I like Zoella a lot, and she's miles better
than plastic production boats anywhere near her size- but she's not
nearly an ideal boat to cover distance in- and Bolger offers several
shoal-draft boats near her size that would probably fill the bill
better than the AS-29, without sacrificing any of the AS-29's
advantages. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a decent AS-29 if I found it on
the market, but if I were building, I would go for a more versatile
design, or commission a new one.
John Dalziel
Bruce Hallman wrote:
lessen the radius... I'll have to look at that.
Thanks,
Bruce
>>over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions.From the sounds of it, I really need to "stretch out" this bend to
>>
>>
>
>That is a lot of bend.
>Even getting 1/4"plywood to take that curve would be much.
>
>The 1/4" bottom of a Tortoise is about 8 inches in 6+ feet and
>that bend is tight, workng best if you soak the wood, and/or
>'pre-spring' it overnight.
>
>
>
>
lessen the radius... I'll have to look at that.
Thanks,
Bruce
Gary Lepak wrote:
diminsions, yes :-)
I guess I'll have to play with stitch and glue... was just really
wanting to avoid the epoxy route, but I'm not sure its feasible.
Thanks for all the answers... I learn a lot here.
Bruce
>So you are saying that the boat is 2' deep and 4' wide, 6' long, andWell, the part that I'm trying to figure out how to bend matches those
>pointed at one end?
>For that much curve laminating would be a pain. I would just build it with
>stitch and glue with fiberglass/epoxy chines and not worry about bending
>wood. It will be plenty strong.
>Gary
>
>
>
diminsions, yes :-)
I guess I'll have to play with stitch and glue... was just really
wanting to avoid the epoxy route, but I'm not sure its feasible.
Thanks for all the answers... I learn a lot here.
Bruce
> over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions.That is a lot of bend.
Even getting 1/4"plywood to take that curve would be much.
The 1/4" bottom of a Tortoise is about 8 inches in 6+ feet and
that bend is tight, workng best if you soak the wood, and/or
'pre-spring' it overnight.
So you are saying that the boat is 2' deep and 4' wide, 6' long, and
pointed at one end?
For that much curve laminating would be a pain. I would just build it with
stitch and glue with fiberglass/epoxy chines and not worry about bending
wood. It will be plenty strong.
Gary
pointed at one end?
For that much curve laminating would be a pain. I would just build it with
stitch and glue with fiberglass/epoxy chines and not worry about bending
wood. It will be plenty strong.
Gary
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@p...>
> wrote:
>> Playing with a simple, small design (boxy, kind of Bolgeresk) that I
>> have in my head... just want to throw something together and see how
> it
>> plays.
>>
>> Simple plywood sides, Simple plywood flat bottom, that all curve
>> together at the bow... Chine is going to be curving in two diminsions
>> over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions. How?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@p...>
wrote:
of wood by two feet in two dimensions. While different species have
different bending characteristics, I don't think there are any
varieties that would bend two feet in a six foot run; I'm not sure a 1
x 2 would bend that much. Laminating out of 3-4 layers would be my
guess. Steaming might be possible, but I don't know a thing about that.
Gary Blankenship
wrote:
> OK, dumb question of the week...The only dumb question is the one you don't ask!
> Playing with a simple, small design (boxy, kind of Bolgeresk) that Iit
> have in my head... just want to throw something together and see how
> plays.Do
>
> Simple plywood sides, Simple plywood flat bottom, that all curve
> together at the bow... Chine is going to be curving in two diminsions
> over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions. How?
> I laminate up something? Do I try to bend a 2x2?If I understand this right, you are looking at bending a 6 foot piece
of wood by two feet in two dimensions. While different species have
different bending characteristics, I don't think there are any
varieties that would bend two feet in a six foot run; I'm not sure a 1
x 2 would bend that much. Laminating out of 3-4 layers would be my
guess. Steaming might be possible, but I don't know a thing about that.
Gary Blankenship
OK, dumb question of the week...
Playing with a simple, small design (boxy, kind of Bolgeresk) that I
have in my head... just want to throw something together and see how it
plays.
Simple plywood sides, Simple plywood flat bottom, that all curve
together at the bow... Chine is going to be curving in two diminsions
over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions. How? Do
I laminate up something? Do I try to bend a 2x2?
I know this is simple and basic, but I seem to be missing the obvious.
Thanks,
Bruce
Playing with a simple, small design (boxy, kind of Bolgeresk) that I
have in my head... just want to throw something together and see how it
plays.
Simple plywood sides, Simple plywood flat bottom, that all curve
together at the bow... Chine is going to be curving in two diminsions
over about 6' in length, with about 2' curve in both diminsions. How? Do
I laminate up something? Do I try to bend a 2x2?
I know this is simple and basic, but I seem to be missing the obvious.
Thanks,
Bruce
I owned an AS-29, Alisa, for a few years. She was built as designed
mostly, but was weak in the bilgeboard area. Her chines were also
weak. You could definately build solid, non leaking bilgeboard
trunks.
http://www.fsanmiguel.com/boat/alisa/alisa.html
Zoella is another AS29 that I am familiar with. Last I heard, she was
making its way up the east coast in late 2003. She had only very
minor issues with the bilgeboards and was framed with some tropical
rot-resistant wood (I think mahogany) for the trunks and chine logs.
Also, I think WD Jochems is an awesome design. I beieve PCB&F are
creating or have created some larger versions in sail and power.
Frank San Miguel
Landenberg, PA, USA
mostly, but was weak in the bilgeboard area. Her chines were also
weak. You could definately build solid, non leaking bilgeboard
trunks.
http://www.fsanmiguel.com/boat/alisa/alisa.html
Zoella is another AS29 that I am familiar with. Last I heard, she was
making its way up the east coast in late 2003. She had only very
minor issues with the bilgeboards and was framed with some tropical
rot-resistant wood (I think mahogany) for the trunks and chine logs.
Also, I think WD Jochems is an awesome design. I beieve PCB&F are
creating or have created some larger versions in sail and power.
Frank San Miguel
Landenberg, PA, USA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "epoxy15" <cmccabe@d...> wrote:
>
> I own plans and the upgrades for the AS29. I really like most
aspects
> of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
> introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB
by
> mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would
throw
> this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old
question,
> but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
> design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would
consider
> building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
> boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I
don't
> think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
> Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
> hopefully to be sailing this summer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charles F.
Hi Charles,
I read some of the replies here, and I don't seem to see any actual
experience, which may be what you really need, right? My brother and
his wife built a boat very similar to the AS 29, and hung leeboards on
her. Their current set up is a pair of guard rails that surround the
leeboards and restrict their broken wing movement. They work great!
You can see them in some of the pictures on my brother's section of my
Web page here:http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/DaveAnke.html.For
specific questions, you might get a reply atdavanke@....
Theory is fun and all, but give me practical experience any time!
Yours,
Mark
Juneau, Alaska
Martha Jane
Teal
Junebug
I read some of the replies here, and I don't seem to see any actual
experience, which may be what you really need, right? My brother and
his wife built a boat very similar to the AS 29, and hung leeboards on
her. Their current set up is a pair of guard rails that surround the
leeboards and restrict their broken wing movement. They work great!
You can see them in some of the pictures on my brother's section of my
Web page here:http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/DaveAnke.html.For
specific questions, you might get a reply atdavanke@....
Theory is fun and all, but give me practical experience any time!
Yours,
Mark
Juneau, Alaska
Martha Jane
Teal
Junebug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "epoxy15" <cmccabe@d...> wrote:
>
> I own plans and the upgrades for the AS29. I really like most aspects
> of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
> introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB by
> mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would throw
> this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old question,
> but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
> design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would consider
> building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
> boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I don't
> think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
> Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
> hopefully to be sailing this summer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charles F.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
those woods won't rot. The rest of the boat my rot away. Black locust
and Osage orange will still be there. No glass needed.
Second choice: drown the wood you do use in Cuprinol or equal. Coat
with Kirby's red lead and paint. Done.
If you are worried about the pivot bolts leaking, put pipe flanges,
nipples and caps around and over the bolts.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
wrote:
> Making things that don't leak isn't that big a deal in this epoxyand glass
> age we live in. I'd be more concerned about rot. However, carefulresitant woods
> construction of the bilgeboard cases out of top quality rot-
> would be a lot better bet IMO than trying to engineer your ownsolution.
>Osage orange or black locust. Your grandchildren will be old and
> JB
those woods won't rot. The rest of the boat my rot away. Black locust
and Osage orange will still be there. No glass needed.
Second choice: drown the wood you do use in Cuprinol or equal. Coat
with Kirby's red lead and paint. Done.
If you are worried about the pivot bolts leaking, put pipe flanges,
nipples and caps around and over the bolts.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
The answer is simple Charles, if you still like the leeboards.
Whether it leaks or not is up to you. If you build it well, as per the
plans, it won't leak, simple as that. Use lots of glass on the seams
and short of a major crash which could lose you the whole boat anyway,
it won't leak.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
Whether it leaks or not is up to you. If you build it well, as per the
plans, it won't leak, simple as that. Use lots of glass on the seams
and short of a major crash which could lose you the whole boat anyway,
it won't leak.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "epoxy15" <cmccabe@d...> wrote:
>
> I own plans and the upgrades for the AS29. I really like most aspects
> of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
> introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB by
> mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would throw
> this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old question,
> but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
> design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would consider
> building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
> boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I don't
> think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
> Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
> hopefully to be sailing this summer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charles F.
I'm amazed that you didn't receive a prompt response
from PB&F. I'd send them another query. When you write
try to stick to one topic.
What to do about the bilge boards in the AS-29 with
the alternatives you've outlined would seem to be a
natural topic. If they've come up with an alternative,
they should be happy to share it with you. If they
haven't they won't be shy about telling you so. If
they are working on a solution they should tell you
that too and give you a time horizon.
Phil Smith
from PB&F. I'd send them another query. When you write
try to stick to one topic.
What to do about the bilge boards in the AS-29 with
the alternatives you've outlined would seem to be a
natural topic. If they've come up with an alternative,
they should be happy to share it with you. If they
haven't they won't be shy about telling you so. If
they are working on a solution they should tell you
that too and give you a time horizon.
Phil Smith
>> About 4 months ago I approached PB by mail, sorryno fax, and have had no reply
There is a big difference in accomodation and bulding investment
between an AS-29 and a Jochems. The fact that you would consider one
as an alternate to the other suggests that you are not too precise as
to you needs. Perhaps some third design would be better yet.
Why not give us your functional requirement, and perhaps we can
suggest something. For example, Bolger has a leeboard boat of similar
size to AS-29 called Avara. Her rig is a little odd, but I see no
objection to changing to the AS-29-style cat yawl. Or any of several
other rigs.
Peter
between an AS-29 and a Jochems. The fact that you would consider one
as an alternate to the other suggests that you are not too precise as
to you needs. Perhaps some third design would be better yet.
Why not give us your functional requirement, and perhaps we can
suggest something. For example, Bolger has a leeboard boat of similar
size to AS-29 called Avara. Her rig is a little odd, but I see no
objection to changing to the AS-29-style cat yawl. Or any of several
other rigs.
Peter
Bolger's written on this in the past. The big issue is the structural loads
imposed on the skin of the hull by the leeboards and on the attachment
points. Adding them would take some considerable thought to handling these
loads. It's not a trivial matter, as Bolger infers.
Making things that don't leak isn't that big a deal in this epoxy and glass
age we live in. I'd be more concerned about rot. However, careful
construction of the bilgeboard cases out of top quality rot-resitant woods
would be a lot better bet IMO than trying to engineer your own solution.
JB
imposed on the skin of the hull by the leeboards and on the attachment
points. Adding them would take some considerable thought to handling these
loads. It's not a trivial matter, as Bolger infers.
Making things that don't leak isn't that big a deal in this epoxy and glass
age we live in. I'd be more concerned about rot. However, careful
construction of the bilgeboard cases out of top quality rot-resitant woods
would be a lot better bet IMO than trying to engineer your own solution.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "epoxy15" <cmccabe@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: [bolger] AS29 leeboards?
>
>
> I own plans and the upgrades for the AS29. I really like most aspects
> of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
> introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB by
> mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would throw
> this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old question,
> but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
> design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would consider
> building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
> boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I don't
> think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
> Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
> hopefully to be sailing this summer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charles F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I own plans and the upgrades for the AS29. I really like most aspects
of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB by
mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would throw
this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old question,
but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would consider
building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I don't
think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
hopefully to be sailing this summer.
Thanks
Charles F.
of the design except have concerns about the bilge boards leaking
introducing the prospect of rot. About 4 months ago I approached PB by
mail, sorry no fax, and have had no reply so I thought I would throw
this out to this group. Perhaps he is tired of the same old question,
but he did say somewhere that if he were approached early on in the
design phase he would have considered them. I seriously would consider
building the AS29 if I could be assured of a way to build the bilge
boards as leak proof as possible or preferably use leeboards. I don't
think I want a Jochems. Any help out there? Should I try him again?
Any encouragement? Meanwhile I continue with the Micro II upgrades
hopefully to be sailing this summer.
Thanks
Charles F.