Re: [bolger] Re: 55 foot sharpie
In a message dated 5/9/05 1:49:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
peterlenihan@...writes:
still feel the cold sense of chagrin when recalling the first time I changed
spark plugs.
My first motorized vehicle with more than 2 wheels was a surplus 1950's
vintage R(ailway) E(xpress) A(agency?) van-bodied truck with a Canadian Dodge
flat-head 6.
I was 16 years old and I had just received a generic automobile repair manual
as a B-day present from a grandfather. Flush with cash from a summer of
bagging groceries and mowing lawns, I decided not only to change the plugs, but the
plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, capacitor and points! There either was no
fitted plug wire kit for this model at the local parts store, or else the
"universal" plug wire kit fitted my budget better. (I needed to buy an
inexpensive timing light and a feeler gauge, too, after all.) The "universal" kit
consisted of a single length of plug wire, which needed to be cut into individual
lengths and then have the appropriate terminals crimped on.
I pulled out the plug wires (not marking any of them, of course), cut the new
ones to length, crimped on the terminals, changed the rotor, points and
capacitor and went to install the new wires. Alas, the length of the wires proved a
less than adequate guide to which plug needed to be attached to which
terminal on the distributor cap!
I've forgotten if it took merely lots and lots of hours or lots of days for
me to get that truck running, but it seemed like forever at the time. A big
part of my problem was that I could never be sure if the engines inability to run
was due to improper firing order, improper point gap, improper timing,
improper something else I did, or whatever ailed to motivate me to do the work in
the first place.
There is a lesson to be learned here, but have I learned it? Only at the
margins, as far as I can tell. I continue to wander through life consoling myself
with the mantra "Education is expensive!" and only occasionally not wasted!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
peterlenihan@...writes:
> Peter Lenihan, who still feels a warm rush of pride when recallingThis is about as far off-topic as one can get, but I can't restrain myself! I
> the first time I actually removed and replaced all 4 spark plugs, all
> on the same day and the darned car started
still feel the cold sense of chagrin when recalling the first time I changed
spark plugs.
My first motorized vehicle with more than 2 wheels was a surplus 1950's
vintage R(ailway) E(xpress) A(agency?) van-bodied truck with a Canadian Dodge
flat-head 6.
I was 16 years old and I had just received a generic automobile repair manual
as a B-day present from a grandfather. Flush with cash from a summer of
bagging groceries and mowing lawns, I decided not only to change the plugs, but the
plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, capacitor and points! There either was no
fitted plug wire kit for this model at the local parts store, or else the
"universal" plug wire kit fitted my budget better. (I needed to buy an
inexpensive timing light and a feeler gauge, too, after all.) The "universal" kit
consisted of a single length of plug wire, which needed to be cut into individual
lengths and then have the appropriate terminals crimped on.
I pulled out the plug wires (not marking any of them, of course), cut the new
ones to length, crimped on the terminals, changed the rotor, points and
capacitor and went to install the new wires. Alas, the length of the wires proved a
less than adequate guide to which plug needed to be attached to which
terminal on the distributor cap!
I've forgotten if it took merely lots and lots of hours or lots of days for
me to get that truck running, but it seemed like forever at the time. A big
part of my problem was that I could never be sure if the engines inability to run
was due to improper firing order, improper point gap, improper timing,
improper something else I did, or whatever ailed to motivate me to do the work in
the first place.
There is a lesson to be learned here, but have I learned it? Only at the
margins, as far as I can tell. I continue to wander through life consoling myself
with the mantra "Education is expensive!" and only occasionally not wasted!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Peter,
No offense taken but I just wanted to let you know that I am
probably a short timer to boat building, meaning that I may not have
to many good boats left in me to build. I would like to finish out
my days testing tools and sailing. I have done enough work,
especially working as a human crane so all of you new boat builders
take heed. You only get one spine so treat it like it was gold.
Get some sort of lift for heavy objects.
I was fortunate to be single while collecting a wide assortment of
tools. My wife didn't know when she married me that I was an
obsessive compulsive tool collector and that y back would give out
within the first twelve years of our marriage. She hates having to
do all the heavy lifting now but I do give her as many back rubs as
possible. She will be a very good cruising companion but she
somehow thinks that the Ocean is full of Sea Serpents and Dragons
that will swallow us. I'll have to take her on a cruise to Alaska
on a ship before we take a forty foot boat out over the Columbia Bar.
I am gong to build some utralight boats in a Duckworks series and
then a Tug Boat designed by Mal Low. then I'll build the Little
Ranger. I am trying to find inexpensive ways to build boats without
plywood and strip planking is a good way. I do know where you can
get some copper pipe for your solar still but you better use
ferrules or you'll end up with lead poisoned hooch. Heavy metal
will take on a whole new meaning in your life.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
No offense taken but I just wanted to let you know that I am
probably a short timer to boat building, meaning that I may not have
to many good boats left in me to build. I would like to finish out
my days testing tools and sailing. I have done enough work,
especially working as a human crane so all of you new boat builders
take heed. You only get one spine so treat it like it was gold.
Get some sort of lift for heavy objects.
I was fortunate to be single while collecting a wide assortment of
tools. My wife didn't know when she married me that I was an
obsessive compulsive tool collector and that y back would give out
within the first twelve years of our marriage. She hates having to
do all the heavy lifting now but I do give her as many back rubs as
possible. She will be a very good cruising companion but she
somehow thinks that the Ocean is full of Sea Serpents and Dragons
that will swallow us. I'll have to take her on a cruise to Alaska
on a ship before we take a forty foot boat out over the Columbia Bar.
I am gong to build some utralight boats in a Duckworks series and
then a Tug Boat designed by Mal Low. then I'll build the Little
Ranger. I am trying to find inexpensive ways to build boats without
plywood and strip planking is a good way. I do know where you can
get some copper pipe for your solar still but you better use
ferrules or you'll end up with lead poisoned hooch. Heavy metal
will take on a whole new meaning in your life.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> Hi John,paradise
> Holy smokes! It sounds like you live in a veritable
> for compulsive boatbuilders.I know it would be overwhelming for meprobably
> to have so much stuff to play and experiment with that I'd
> lose my job since I'd be having way too much fun at home to everget
> to work :-)with
> I envy you your good fortune and wish you all the best
> Atkins' Little Ranger,if you build her.Big double enders neverfail
> to possess a certain allure,even for a city punk like me,althoughmore
> the interior layout of the Atkin Missie&Laurie design does look
> interesting then that found on board Little Ranger.still
> And oh yes,before I forget,I did not mean to obfuscate you
> as no lesson was intended or offered here John.Just friendly boat
> banter :-)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,guilty of having but two functional neurons and of
> always under-estimating some folks propensity for accumulating
> stuff...lots of good stuff.... and now wishing he had a solar
> for his hops :-Dmentioned
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:
> > Dear Peter,
> >
> > I wanted to let you know that I have thought of all you
> > and more. I am a heavy equipment mechanic, machinist and boattools
> > builder. I also get lots of toys to play with, meaning new
> > for testing and I still have in storage tons of tools.I
> I have done pretty well so far for
> > needing a sharp pencil lesson from you. I would not assume that
> > have not done any living aboard either.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
The British unit you refer to is the Sonic drive.
You make good points and I agree that scrounging is essential for
building boats on the cheap,as you say. However,I think too that to
maximize the scrounging rewards,it helps greatly to be mechanically
inclined,if not trained and certified.God knows there are all sorts
of good deals out there,especially in the motor dept. but speaking
as one who feels nervous just changing the spark plugs in my car,I
could not begin to even think about going that route.
Thanks to my near total ignorance of all things mechanical,I
prefer to go,indeed am forced to go,the new-off-the-shelf route. I
console myself with thoughts of warranties and after sales service
promises instead of nightmare scenarios of little ole' me pulling
the head off,reaming the cylinders,greasing the crank,timing the
chain and all those other type of machine head words/activities:-)
And the insurance company likes it better that way too,for me.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who still feels a warm rush of pride when recalling
the first time I actually removed and replaced all 4 spark plugs,all
on the same day and the darned car started just as well as had I
brought it into a gagrage to change the plugs.....miracles of
miracles!
> >>Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000Hi Phil,
> >>more expensive then a similar gasoline inboard and
> >>certainly a fair deal more expensive then a 4 stoke
> >>outboard of similar Hp.
>
> If you are going to build boats on the cheap,
> scrounging isn't a bad skill.
>
>
> The three cylinder Deutz is small enough, low enough
> horsepower, to mate up with PB&F's favorite British
> sail drive unit. I can't recall the make at the moment
> but it will retract, like an outboard, totally out of
> the water.
The British unit you refer to is the Sonic drive.
You make good points and I agree that scrounging is essential for
building boats on the cheap,as you say. However,I think too that to
maximize the scrounging rewards,it helps greatly to be mechanically
inclined,if not trained and certified.God knows there are all sorts
of good deals out there,especially in the motor dept. but speaking
as one who feels nervous just changing the spark plugs in my car,I
could not begin to even think about going that route.
Thanks to my near total ignorance of all things mechanical,I
prefer to go,indeed am forced to go,the new-off-the-shelf route. I
console myself with thoughts of warranties and after sales service
promises instead of nightmare scenarios of little ole' me pulling
the head off,reaming the cylinders,greasing the crank,timing the
chain and all those other type of machine head words/activities:-)
And the insurance company likes it better that way too,for me.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who still feels a warm rush of pride when recalling
the first time I actually removed and replaced all 4 spark plugs,all
on the same day and the darned car started just as well as had I
brought it into a gagrage to change the plugs.....miracles of
miracles!
Hi John,
Holy smokes! It sounds like you live in a veritable paradise
for compulsive boatbuilders.I know it would be overwhelming for me
to have so much stuff to play and experiment with that I'd probably
lose my job since I'd be having way too much fun at home to ever get
to work :-)
I envy you your good fortune and wish you all the best with
Atkins' Little Ranger,if you build her.Big double enders never fail
to possess a certain allure,even for a city punk like me,although
the interior layout of the Atkin Missie&Laurie design does look more
interesting then that found on board Little Ranger.
And oh yes,before I forget,I did not mean to obfuscate you
as no lesson was intended or offered here John.Just friendly boat
banter :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,guilty of having but two functional neurons and of
always under-estimating some folks propensity for accumulating
stuff...lots of good stuff.... and now wishing he had a solar still
for his hops :-D
Holy smokes! It sounds like you live in a veritable paradise
for compulsive boatbuilders.I know it would be overwhelming for me
to have so much stuff to play and experiment with that I'd probably
lose my job since I'd be having way too much fun at home to ever get
to work :-)
I envy you your good fortune and wish you all the best with
Atkins' Little Ranger,if you build her.Big double enders never fail
to possess a certain allure,even for a city punk like me,although
the interior layout of the Atkin Missie&Laurie design does look more
interesting then that found on board Little Ranger.
And oh yes,before I forget,I did not mean to obfuscate you
as no lesson was intended or offered here John.Just friendly boat
banter :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,guilty of having but two functional neurons and of
always under-estimating some folks propensity for accumulating
stuff...lots of good stuff.... and now wishing he had a solar still
for his hops :-D
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:
> Dear Peter,
>
> I wanted to let you know that I have thought of all you mentioned
> and more. I am a heavy equipment mechanic, machinist and boat
> builder. I also get lots of toys to play with, meaning new tools
> for testing and I still have in storage tons of tools.
I have done pretty well so far for
> needing a sharp pencil lesson from you. I would not assume that I
> have not done any living aboard either.
Sorry, got busy again....
I did a rough layout that is similar to the old SeaRunner trimarans.
Galley and dine/living in the back and berths and head in the front.
The Bolger 55 would have ample headroom for a walk-through between fore
and aft cabins.
With the reverse shear there would be lots of headroom in the galley
and head areas. Everywhere else the crew would either be sitting or
laying down.
RonB.
I did a rough layout that is similar to the old SeaRunner trimarans.
Galley and dine/living in the back and berths and head in the front.
The Bolger 55 would have ample headroom for a walk-through between fore
and aft cabins.
With the reverse shear there would be lots of headroom in the galley
and head areas. Everywhere else the crew would either be sitting or
laying down.
RonB.
On 4-May-05, at 8:45 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> Cool looking! It would be interesting to see an interior layout.
>
> Comparing your design to Bolger, I see that the lack of shear
> on the Bolger version has an incidental benefit of providing
> headroom in the forward and aft cabins.
Dear Peter,
I wanted to let you know that I have thought of all you mentioned
and more. I am a heavy equipment mechanic, machinist and boat
builder. I also get lots of toys to play with, meaning new tools
for testing and I still have in storage tons of tools.
It is a proven fact that you can buy a Volkswagen diesel engine
rebuilt with a ZF transmission for 1/8th the cost of a new marine
diesel and they make very good boat engines with a keel cooler. I
also have friend with a portable lumber mill that uses a huge band
saw run by a diesel motor who cuts my Port Orford Cedar and American
Red Cedar for about for about 50 cents a board foot. You can't buy
good plywood for that price. A friend who lives across the street
from me hauls my logs on his log truck and I pay salvage price or
about $20.00 for a big cedar log and a little more for the Port
Orford cedar.
I some got some Surplus epoxy in 55 gallon drums that open up and
hold smaller packages of two part epoxy that is still inside its
user date for $30.00 a drum. I have tested it and it sets up at
about the rate of using fast and slow Raka hardener so for strip
planking it will be great and I am going to buy one more drum from
my friend who buys salvage from the government at auction. I told
him I wanted some in date two part epoxy and he bought four drums
and will be keeping two for himself. I have a 20' X 25' tool shed
and I am building a 25' by 55' bow roof shed to build my boat
inside.
I live on a big lot on upper Klamath lake and all of the buildigs
are on my property. I built a 100' steel algae harvester for the
Algae company down the street and I already hae a plasma cutter self
powered welder/genarator with inert gas tanks for mig and tig
welding. Oh I forgot to tell youthat when I lived in the SF bay
area I worked at Moffet field for NASA as a machinist and became a
certified welder there. On the weekends I commercial fished and
built boats.
I think I am in a prety good position since I have my solar kiln
full of wood and another load to go in it right now. I own three
table saws, two planers three and saws of diferent sizes ctoff
machines. Two router tables and I am going to be using a Toolbot CNC
router I will be testing. I already have an engine and
transmission for a boat sitting in my shop and I have eight boats of
various sizes at my home. I am seriously looking at a boat by
Atkin's called the Little Ranger as a live aboard and I have enough
material right now to build it. Cost to me $6,000.00 with the Sitka
spruce hollow masts I have already made. I include in that all the
silicon bronze screws I have about 150 pounds and all the 316
stainless fitting I have scrounged to fit it out. I also have two
radars, two new GPS systems with matching depth finders and all the
charts on computer disks for the west coast of all the Americas,
North and South.
I also have 3/4" anchor rode 400 feet lon and two electric deck
windlasses to pull my anchors and chain rode with.. I still have to
get my sails made but think I have done pretty well so far for
needing a sharp pencil lesson from you. I would not assume that I
have not done any living aboard either.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
wrote:
I wanted to let you know that I have thought of all you mentioned
and more. I am a heavy equipment mechanic, machinist and boat
builder. I also get lots of toys to play with, meaning new tools
for testing and I still have in storage tons of tools.
It is a proven fact that you can buy a Volkswagen diesel engine
rebuilt with a ZF transmission for 1/8th the cost of a new marine
diesel and they make very good boat engines with a keel cooler. I
also have friend with a portable lumber mill that uses a huge band
saw run by a diesel motor who cuts my Port Orford Cedar and American
Red Cedar for about for about 50 cents a board foot. You can't buy
good plywood for that price. A friend who lives across the street
from me hauls my logs on his log truck and I pay salvage price or
about $20.00 for a big cedar log and a little more for the Port
Orford cedar.
I some got some Surplus epoxy in 55 gallon drums that open up and
hold smaller packages of two part epoxy that is still inside its
user date for $30.00 a drum. I have tested it and it sets up at
about the rate of using fast and slow Raka hardener so for strip
planking it will be great and I am going to buy one more drum from
my friend who buys salvage from the government at auction. I told
him I wanted some in date two part epoxy and he bought four drums
and will be keeping two for himself. I have a 20' X 25' tool shed
and I am building a 25' by 55' bow roof shed to build my boat
inside.
I live on a big lot on upper Klamath lake and all of the buildigs
are on my property. I built a 100' steel algae harvester for the
Algae company down the street and I already hae a plasma cutter self
powered welder/genarator with inert gas tanks for mig and tig
welding. Oh I forgot to tell youthat when I lived in the SF bay
area I worked at Moffet field for NASA as a machinist and became a
certified welder there. On the weekends I commercial fished and
built boats.
I think I am in a prety good position since I have my solar kiln
full of wood and another load to go in it right now. I own three
table saws, two planers three and saws of diferent sizes ctoff
machines. Two router tables and I am going to be using a Toolbot CNC
router I will be testing. I already have an engine and
transmission for a boat sitting in my shop and I have eight boats of
various sizes at my home. I am seriously looking at a boat by
Atkin's called the Little Ranger as a live aboard and I have enough
material right now to build it. Cost to me $6,000.00 with the Sitka
spruce hollow masts I have already made. I include in that all the
silicon bronze screws I have about 150 pounds and all the 316
stainless fitting I have scrounged to fit it out. I also have two
radars, two new GPS systems with matching depth finders and all the
charts on computer disks for the west coast of all the Americas,
North and South.
I also have 3/4" anchor rode 400 feet lon and two electric deck
windlasses to pull my anchors and chain rode with.. I still have to
get my sails made but think I have done pretty well so far for
needing a sharp pencil lesson from you. I would not assume that I
have not done any living aboard either.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:but
> > I personally love this design and think it makes more sense than
> the
> > Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for better speed
> > why no center board and diesel inboard engine. Maybe I havethink,for
> built
> > to many boats with inboards and swing keels or dagger boards and
> > maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form are plain butt
> > ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or at least a
> > canted dagger bard on each side for better turning and the box
> keel
> > is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel storage.
>
>
> John,
> In a cruising live-a-board sailboat expected to undertake
> long distance voyages and carrying all of ones worldly goods,the
> ability to turn on a dime often afforded by the use of fins
> (daggerboards etc) really doesn't make all that much sense and
> certainly not on a 55 footer.The known solid tracking ability of
> these long shallow salient keels would be much preferred,I
> the solo helmsman and/or to minimize the electronic steerings'designed
> battery drain.
>
> >
> > I think an inboard diesel s far better when you consider fuel
> > consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie that was
> > in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat as the Bolgeralso.
> > design.
> >
> >http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
> >
> > I would have to pencil in expenses on building but the Atkin
> Design
> > would be faster even with a shorter water line and could easily
> beat
> > upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I would say it
> > would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard diesel
> > The obsession with high torque outboards on boats over fortyfeet
> isdo
> > not to my liking. They cost much more than an inboard and they
> > not match the fuel economy. They are not on the market usedexpensive
> either
> > so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is not very
> likely.
>
>
>
> Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000 more
> then a similar gasoline inboard and certainly a fair deal moreand
> expensive then a 4 stoke outboard of similar Hp. With todays gas
> diesel prices but pennies apart in price, it would take a coupleof
> decades,at sailboat use rates,to even come close to recouping andhauling
> realising any"economy" with the diesel.Factor in the cost of
> bringing a mechanic to service the diesel over your costs of
> the outboard to the shop and we can add perhaps another couple ofjust
> years to the decades already mentioned.And if that is not
> enough,consider too all the plumbing concerns,through-hulls and
> living with the thing"inside" your boat VS the all outboard,nomolding
> through-hull simple elegance of the outboard.
>
>
> >> I now think that strip planking and a few layers of cold
> > over that is far less expensive than even the least expensivethe
> > plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood right now is
> > most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost for anorder
> > the other day and it had tripled in price from two years ago.and
> Cheap
> > doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the edge now in
> > cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints and cutting
> the
> > cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to resaw on a
> band
> > saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and it also very
> > inexpensive but labor intensive.
>
>
> I can't agree here John unless a)you can get epoxy for free,b)you
> can get all your lumber milled and dressed for free ,c) the yard
> where you are building a 55 footer is also free or d)all of the
> above. Otherwise the strip composite construction proposed will
> consume gallons of $$epoxy$$,require the $$equipement$$ to mill
> dress your building stock or have it$$done$$ and if you must renta
> space to build,the extra time required for the above will be paidboat.
> out in extra rental time.Never underestimate the effects of"labour
> intensive" activities on the builders moral and domestic
> harmony.Hard to put a price on that one until the lawyers send in
> the final bill.......
> Oh and yes,d is the right answer :-)
>
>
>
> I have been looking at a cost per
> > foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as a steel
>displacement
> Try pricing a chosen design on a price per pound displacement.This
> may prove closer to the actual cost +/- 10%. $6.50/lb.
> seems about close right now in Canada,for plywood construction.Itthen
> also presumes that the builder(you?) is working for free!
>
>
> and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
> > for that illusive design that will balance al of my needs.
>
>
> Please don't take any of this as argumentive John. I just want to
> make sure
> your pencil stays sharp and that you find that "illusive" design.
> But boats,perhaps like women, may benefit from my 80% Rule. That
> is,if a particular design has at least 80% of your "wish list"
> you should jump in and go for it secure in the knowledge that time--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
> will teach you to love the ramaining 20% :-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:but
> > I personally love this design and think it makes more sense than
> the
> > Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for better speed
> > why no center board and diesel inboard engine. Maybe I havethink,for
> built
> > to many boats with inboards and swing keels or dagger boards and
> > maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form are plain butt
> > ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or at least a
> > canted dagger bard on each side for better turning and the box
> keel
> > is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel storage.
>
>
> John,
> In a cruising live-a-board sailboat expected to undertake
> long distance voyages and carrying all of ones worldly goods,the
> ability to turn on a dime often afforded by the use of fins
> (daggerboards etc) really doesn't make all that much sense and
> certainly not on a 55 footer.The known solid tracking ability of
> these long shallow salient keels would be much preferred,I
> the solo helmsman and/or to minimize the electronic steerings'designed
> battery drain.
>
> >
> > I think an inboard diesel s far better when you consider fuel
> > consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie that was
> > in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat as the Bolgeralso.
> > design.
> >
> >http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
> >
> > I would have to pencil in expenses on building but the Atkin
> Design
> > would be faster even with a shorter water line and could easily
> beat
> > upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I would say it
> > would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard diesel
> > The obsession with high torque outboards on boats over fortyfeet
> isdo
> > not to my liking. They cost much more than an inboard and they
> > not match the fuel economy. They are not on the market usedexpensive
> either
> > so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is not very
> likely.
>
>
>
> Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000 more
> then a similar gasoline inboard and certainly a fair deal moreand
> expensive then a 4 stoke outboard of similar Hp. With todays gas
> diesel prices but pennies apart in price, it would take a coupleof
> decades,at sailboat use rates,to even come close to recouping andhauling
> realising any"economy" with the diesel.Factor in the cost of
> bringing a mechanic to service the diesel over your costs of
> the outboard to the shop and we can add perhaps another couple ofjust
> years to the decades already mentioned.And if that is not
> enough,consider too all the plumbing concerns,through-hulls and
> living with the thing"inside" your boat VS the all outboard,nomolding
> through-hull simple elegance of the outboard.
>
>
> >> I now think that strip planking and a few layers of cold
> > over that is far less expensive than even the least expensivethe
> > plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood right now is
> > most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost for anorder
> > the other day and it had tripled in price from two years ago.and
> Cheap
> > doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the edge now in
> > cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints and cutting
> the
> > cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to resaw on a
> band
> > saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and it also very
> > inexpensive but labor intensive.
>
>
> I can't agree here John unless a)you can get epoxy for free,b)you
> can get all your lumber milled and dressed for free ,c) the yard
> where you are building a 55 footer is also free or d)all of the
> above. Otherwise the strip composite construction proposed will
> consume gallons of $$epoxy$$,require the $$equipement$$ to mill
> dress your building stock or have it$$done$$ and if you must renta
> space to build,the extra time required for the above will be paidboat.
> out in extra rental time.Never underestimate the effects of"labour
> intensive" activities on the builders moral and domestic
> harmony.Hard to put a price on that one until the lawyers send in
> the final bill.......
> Oh and yes,d is the right answer :-)
>
>
>
> I have been looking at a cost per
> > foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as a steel
>displacement
> Try pricing a chosen design on a price per pound displacement.This
> may prove closer to the actual cost +/- 10%. $6.50/lb.
> seems about close right now in Canada,for plywood construction.Itthen
> also presumes that the builder(you?) is working for free!
>
>
> and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
> > for that illusive design that will balance al of my needs.
>
>
> Please don't take any of this as argumentive John. I just want to
> make sure
> your pencil stays sharp and that you find that "illusive" design.
> But boats,perhaps like women, may benefit from my 80% Rule. That
> is,if a particular design has at least 80% of your "wish list"
> you should jump in and go for it secure in the knowledge that time
> will teach you to love the ramaining 20% :-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan
> I should probably know this, but what are you using for your wireframeYes, with a little practice it is very quick and easy to do too!
> and model printouts?
> Hulls?
>>Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000If you are going to build boats on the cheap,
>>more expensive then a similar gasoline inboard and
>>certainly a fair deal more expensive then a 4 stoke
>>outboard of similar Hp.
scrounging isn't a bad skill.
PB&F are big fans of Deutz air cooled diesels. I
bought one for my still aborted project on Ebay for
less than a grand. There's three cylinder one on Ebay
now for less than a grand. Mine is newer and is
air/oil cooled rather than simply air cooled.
One of the features of using the air cooled Deutz is
that it doesn't require any through hull fittings.
Eliminating holes in your boat in the design phase is
a good thing to do.
A feature of all the air and air/oil cooled Deutz
diesels is that they are totally field rebuildable.
Heads and cylinder jugs are replaceable as they are on
air cooled VW engines. You can carry a spare cylinder
kit or two and be ready for substantially any
eventuality. Plus Deutz is sold around the world.
Deutz engines are very reliable and are found all over
the place. I remember being in a field in Wyoming
talking about irrigation. There was a Deutz diesel.
I'd never heard of one until PB&F mentioned them.
"Where do you get it worked on?" I asked. Oh, there's
a guy over in Sheridan who sells them and works on
them. No problems after years of 24/7 use over many
summers.
The three cylinder Deutz is small enough, low enough
horsepower, to mate up with PB&F's favorite British
sail drive unit. I can't recall the make at the moment
but it will retract, like an outboard, totally out of
the water. This is handy for eliminating electrolisis.
Eliminating potential sources of electrolisis in your
boat in the design phase is another good thing to do.
I'd bet that with proper shopping or scrounging that
one could find a nice Deutz and the British sail drive
for less than one can buy one of those great Yamaha
high thrust 50s.
With an on board diesel you get less exposure to
explosion. You can mount several high capacity
alternators to provide you with electricity for
recharging your battery banks. You should also get
better fuel economy.
I also think that, because of PB&F's infatuation with
the Deutz/British saildrive combination that they'd be
happy to redesign appropriate existing designs such as
Loose Moose and Cabotien or Illinois or Puffer to use
the Deutz. Of course their plate is really full, so it
might take longer than you can wait. It's an approach
I think I'll follow if I get to the building phase.
Phil Smith
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:
In a cruising live-a-board sailboat expected to undertake
long distance voyages and carrying all of ones worldly goods,the
ability to turn on a dime often afforded by the use of fins
(daggerboards etc) really doesn't make all that much sense and
certainly not on a 55 footer.The known solid tracking ability of
these long shallow salient keels would be much preferred,I think,for
the solo helmsman and/or to minimize the electronic steerings'
battery drain.
Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000 more expensive
then a similar gasoline inboard and certainly a fair deal more
expensive then a 4 stoke outboard of similar Hp. With todays gas and
diesel prices but pennies apart in price, it would take a couple of
decades,at sailboat use rates,to even come close to recouping and
realising any"economy" with the diesel.Factor in the cost of
bringing a mechanic to service the diesel over your costs of hauling
the outboard to the shop and we can add perhaps another couple of
years to the decades already mentioned.And if that is not
enough,consider too all the plumbing concerns,through-hulls and just
living with the thing"inside" your boat VS the all outboard,no
through-hull simple elegance of the outboard.
can get all your lumber milled and dressed for free ,c) the yard
where you are building a 55 footer is also free or d)all of the
above. Otherwise the strip composite construction proposed will
consume gallons of $$epoxy$$,require the $$equipement$$ to mill and
dress your building stock or have it$$done$$ and if you must rent a
space to build,the extra time required for the above will be paid
out in extra rental time.Never underestimate the effects of"labour
intensive" activities on the builders moral and domestic
harmony.Hard to put a price on that one until the lawyers send in
the final bill.......
Oh and yes,d is the right answer :-)
I have been looking at a cost per
may prove closer to the actual cost +/- 10%. $6.50/lb. displacement
seems about close right now in Canada,for plywood construction.It
also presumes that the builder(you?) is working for free!
and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
make sure
your pencil stays sharp and that you find that "illusive" design.
But boats,perhaps like women, may benefit from my 80% Rule. That
is,if a particular design has at least 80% of your "wish list" then
you should jump in and go for it secure in the knowledge that time
will teach you to love the ramaining 20% :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> I personally love this design and think it makes more sense thanthe
> Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for better speed butbuilt
> why no center board and diesel inboard engine. Maybe I have
> to many boats with inboards and swing keels or dagger boards andkeel
> maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form are plain butt
> ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or at least a
> canted dagger bard on each side for better turning and the box
> is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel storage.John,
In a cruising live-a-board sailboat expected to undertake
long distance voyages and carrying all of ones worldly goods,the
ability to turn on a dime often afforded by the use of fins
(daggerboards etc) really doesn't make all that much sense and
certainly not on a 55 footer.The known solid tracking ability of
these long shallow salient keels would be much preferred,I think,for
the solo helmsman and/or to minimize the electronic steerings'
battery drain.
>Design
> I think an inboard diesel s far better when you consider fuel
> consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie that was designed
> in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat as the Bolger
> design.
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
>
> I would have to pencil in expenses on building but the Atkin
> would be faster even with a shorter water line and could easilybeat
> upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I would say itis
> would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard diesel also.
> The obsession with high torque outboards on boats over forty feet
> not to my liking. They cost much more than an inboard and they doeither
> not match the fuel economy. They are not on the market used
> so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is not verylikely.
Diesel engines,at least up here, are roughly $10,000 more expensive
then a similar gasoline inboard and certainly a fair deal more
expensive then a 4 stoke outboard of similar Hp. With todays gas and
diesel prices but pennies apart in price, it would take a couple of
decades,at sailboat use rates,to even come close to recouping and
realising any"economy" with the diesel.Factor in the cost of
bringing a mechanic to service the diesel over your costs of hauling
the outboard to the shop and we can add perhaps another couple of
years to the decades already mentioned.And if that is not
enough,consider too all the plumbing concerns,through-hulls and just
living with the thing"inside" your boat VS the all outboard,no
through-hull simple elegance of the outboard.
>> I now think that strip planking and a few layers of cold moldingCheap
> over that is far less expensive than even the least expensive
> plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood right now is the
> most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost for an order
> the other day and it had tripled in price from two years ago.
> doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the edge now inthe
> cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints and cutting
> cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to resaw on aband
> saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and it also veryI can't agree here John unless a)you can get epoxy for free,b)you
> inexpensive but labor intensive.
can get all your lumber milled and dressed for free ,c) the yard
where you are building a 55 footer is also free or d)all of the
above. Otherwise the strip composite construction proposed will
consume gallons of $$epoxy$$,require the $$equipement$$ to mill and
dress your building stock or have it$$done$$ and if you must rent a
space to build,the extra time required for the above will be paid
out in extra rental time.Never underestimate the effects of"labour
intensive" activities on the builders moral and domestic
harmony.Hard to put a price on that one until the lawyers send in
the final bill.......
Oh and yes,d is the right answer :-)
I have been looking at a cost per
> foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as a steel boat.Try pricing a chosen design on a price per pound displacement.This
may prove closer to the actual cost +/- 10%. $6.50/lb. displacement
seems about close right now in Canada,for plywood construction.It
also presumes that the builder(you?) is working for free!
and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
> for that illusive design that will balance al of my needs.Please don't take any of this as argumentive John. I just want to
make sure
your pencil stays sharp and that you find that "illusive" design.
But boats,perhaps like women, may benefit from my 80% Rule. That
is,if a particular design has at least 80% of your "wish list" then
you should jump in and go for it secure in the knowledge that time
will teach you to love the ramaining 20% :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
If I could just find a stack of plywood 450 deep.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>Illinois is beautiful.
>>
>>
>
>In our dreams, when will somebody build one?
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
Take another look at the scan of the drawing kindly provided by
Bruce Hallman and his wonderfuly illuminating paper model of her and
you'll see,what I believe is,deck crown.Most boats do have deck crown
but is is sometimes not so evident since alot of it gets "lost" with
the cabin cut-out,cockpit opening,hatches etc.........but it is there
in well designed boats :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan........
wrote:
> Decks are usually flat thus 55's sheer is flat because Bolger is aas
> true minimalist. The sheer could be "fixed" with a facade doubling
> the railing shown.Don,
Take another look at the scan of the drawing kindly provided by
Bruce Hallman and his wonderfuly illuminating paper model of her and
you'll see,what I believe is,deck crown.Most boats do have deck crown
but is is sometimes not so evident since alot of it gets "lost" with
the cabin cut-out,cockpit opening,hatches etc.........but it is there
in well designed boats :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan........
> Ugly? UGLY?! ............. She has a beam to length ratio as fine asa canoe (if not finer!) and I'll betchya that her apparently"flat"
shear line will start looking mighty sweet once we see the effect of
the deck crown in the third dimension......
Decks are usually flat thus 55's sheer is flat because Bolger is a
true minimalist. The sheer could be "fixed" with a facade doubling as
the railing shown.
Yes Peter,
she looks like an exact scaled-up version on Windermere with sails!!!!!!!????
Now how good do you think she really looks !!!????
Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
she looks like an exact scaled-up version on Windermere with sails!!!!!!!????
Now how good do you think she really looks !!!????
Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
> Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'm sure for its
purpose but truly ugly. Someone on this group said that they
thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I
think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
>
> Hugo Tyson.
Ugly? UGLY?! Oh come on Hugo...look closely at her and try to see
the third dimension.She has a beam to length ratio as fine as a canoe
(if not finer!) and I'll betchya that her apparently"flat" shear
line will start looking mighty sweet once we see the effect of the
deck crown in the third dimension.Built well,without a ton of
ripples in her skin and properly faired during assembling,this slim
hull will be most seductive,especially if we do away with that bit
of Bolger humour of a mural. But of course,she wil not be everyones
cup-o-tea....just like our tastes for the women we choose to engage
with. Sometimes real beauty just has to grow on you :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who like 'em in many shapes and sizes....boats that
is!
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I
think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
the third dimension.She has a beam to length ratio as fine as a canoe
(if not finer!) and I'll betchya that her apparently"flat" shear
line will start looking mighty sweet once we see the effect of the
deck crown in the third dimension.Built well,without a ton of
ripples in her skin and properly faired during assembling,this slim
hull will be most seductive,especially if we do away with that bit
of Bolger humour of a mural. But of course,she wil not be everyones
cup-o-tea....just like our tastes for the women we choose to engage
with. Sometimes real beauty just has to grow on you :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who like 'em in many shapes and sizes....boats that
is!
> Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'm sure for itspurpose but truly ugly. Someone on this group said that they
thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I
think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
>Ugly? UGLY?! Oh come on Hugo...look closely at her and try to see
> Hugo Tyson.
the third dimension.She has a beam to length ratio as fine as a canoe
(if not finer!) and I'll betchya that her apparently"flat" shear
line will start looking mighty sweet once we see the effect of the
deck crown in the third dimension.Built well,without a ton of
ripples in her skin and properly faired during assembling,this slim
hull will be most seductive,especially if we do away with that bit
of Bolger humour of a mural. But of course,she wil not be everyones
cup-o-tea....just like our tastes for the women we choose to engage
with. Sometimes real beauty just has to grow on you :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who like 'em in many shapes and sizes....boats that
is!
Bruce Hallman wrote:
I should probably know this, but what are you using for your wireframe
and model printouts?
Hulls?
Thanks,
Bruce (one of the others)
>>Bruce, looking at those renderings, she still be flatBruce,
>>sheered bye!
>
>
>http://community.webshots.com/album/339723438ZwGNnR
>
I should probably know this, but what are you using for your wireframe
and model printouts?
Hulls?
Thanks,
Bruce (one of the others)
Hi John. Could you post those side-wheeler drawings to
one of the group files so I may have a look?
I am a side-wheeler freak and have posted on here
several times ideas for deisel powered side wheelers.
I think you could take the whole drivetrain right out
of a 1 ton to 5 ton truck or school bus (depending on
the power requirements and size of the boat) and drop
it in situ, complete with the rear axle driving the
wheels. differential braking would be built in, but
this would not allow for the paddlewheels to be run in
opposite directions, to spin about on her own axis.
I am currently building an 18' scow with a Chanteuse
style cabin and rear paddlewheel, powered by the 18hp
twin Briggs and Stratton out of my old Craftsman
lawnmower.
On the drawing board for the future, is a side wheeler
State or Lake series boat, with a small Detroit
Deisel. I have a 4-53 and transmission/axle from an
old truck stored out in the shed, and plan on using
it. I intend to use an overhead arch truss to support
the long deck, similar to the Great Lakes Passenger
steamers like Lady Elgin, Depere and others. Since
these vessels had flat decks, the huge arched trusses
were used to prevent the keels from hogging when a
swell lifted the hull amidships.
I was even thinking of running connecting rods from
the ends of the axle up to dual walking beams, then
down to drive the paddles. Fanciful stuff, but cheap
and simply to build.
Looking forward to seeing your drawings.
Thanks, Shawn
--- John Cupp <john@...> wrote:
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
one of the group files so I may have a look?
I am a side-wheeler freak and have posted on here
several times ideas for deisel powered side wheelers.
I think you could take the whole drivetrain right out
of a 1 ton to 5 ton truck or school bus (depending on
the power requirements and size of the boat) and drop
it in situ, complete with the rear axle driving the
wheels. differential braking would be built in, but
this would not allow for the paddlewheels to be run in
opposite directions, to spin about on her own axis.
I am currently building an 18' scow with a Chanteuse
style cabin and rear paddlewheel, powered by the 18hp
twin Briggs and Stratton out of my old Craftsman
lawnmower.
On the drawing board for the future, is a side wheeler
State or Lake series boat, with a small Detroit
Deisel. I have a 4-53 and transmission/axle from an
old truck stored out in the shed, and plan on using
it. I intend to use an overhead arch truss to support
the long deck, similar to the Great Lakes Passenger
steamers like Lady Elgin, Depere and others. Since
these vessels had flat decks, the huge arched trusses
were used to prevent the keels from hogging when a
swell lifted the hull amidships.
I was even thinking of running connecting rods from
the ends of the axle up to dual walking beams, then
down to drive the paddles. Fanciful stuff, but cheap
and simply to build.
Looking forward to seeing your drawings.
Thanks, Shawn
--- John Cupp <john@...> wrote:
> I personally love this design and think it makeshttp://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
> more sense than the
> Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for
> better speed but
> why no center board and diesel inboard engine.
> Maybe I have built
> to many boats with inboards and swing keels or
> dagger boards and
> maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form
> are plain butt
> ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or
> at least a
> canted dagger bard on each side for better turning
> and the box keel
> is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel
> storage.
>
> I think an inboard diesel s far better when you
> consider fuel
> consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie
> that was designed
> in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat
> as the Bolger
> design.
>
>
>Yahoo! Mail
> I would have to pencil in expenses on building but
> the Atkin Design
> would be faster even with a shorter water line and
> could easily beat
> upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I
> would say it
> would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard
> diesel also.
> The obsession with high torque outboards on boats
> over forty feet is
> not to my liking. They cost much more than an
> inboard and they do
> not match the fuel economy. They are not on the
> market used either
> so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is
> not very likely.
>
> The new Bolger variant looks all the world like the
> Illinois with
> sails, a box keel and fewer port lights. That grand
> Illinois is my
> favorite Bolger sharpie and I thought with a large
> limited slip
> truck differential driving side paddles hooked into
> a moderate
> diesel with brakes to stop one or the other paddle
> wheels at a time
> it could be very maneuverable and cruise longer
> distances. The
> paddle covers could act like out riggers with faired
> in flotation.
> Just a thought and I have a few drawings that I have
> come up with.
> Without sails these days you can not afford a bigger
> boat and the
> fuel costs.
>
> I now think that strip planking and a few layers of
> cold molding
> over that is far less expensive than even the least
> expensive
> plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood
> right now is the
> most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost
> for an order
> the other day and it had tripled in price from two
> years ago. Cheap
> doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the
> edge now in
> cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints
> and cutting the
> cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to
> resaw on a band
> saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and
> it also very
> inexpensive but labor intensive. I have been
> looking at a cost per
> foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as
> a steel boat.
> The price of steel also went up. Sorry for all the
> random thoughts
> but a bigger inexpensive boat has been in my
> planning sages for over
> two years and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am
> still looking
> for that illusive design that will balance al of my
> needs.
>
> John
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith
> <pbs@w...> wrote:
> >
> > > I see allot of Sir Joseph Banks in the 55
> footer.
> > > I'd guess the 55 is
> > > an older design. That long keel seems like a
> > > backwards step from
> > > something like the board on Loose Moose. We have
> no
> > > idea how much of
> > > the 55 was the whim of the client and how much
> was
> > > Phil's own musings.
> > >
> > > RonB.
> > >
> > > I like the mural too!
> > >
> >
> > PB&F began using the box keels more extensively
> about
> > eight or ten years ago. They told me and I think
> > they've said in print, perhaps in BWOM or in one
> of
> > the MAIB articles that the box keels help the
> water
> > flow more smoothly along the length of the boat.
> >
> > I doubt if box keels and lee boards are mutually
> > exclusive although I can't think of a PB&F design
> that
> > utilizes them both off the top of my head.
> >
> > Phil Smith
>
>
>
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
What if one just painted the sides 'sea blue', then
painted the profile of one of those sexy (egad!)
fiberglass jobs over that?
Best of both worlds. (Tongue firmly in cheek).
--- Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
painted the profile of one of those sexy (egad!)
fiberglass jobs over that?
Best of both worlds. (Tongue firmly in cheek).
--- Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
> Bolger has suggested more than once that boat owners__________________________________
> should get some
> kind of tax break for having beautiful boats that
> improve the
> scenery. Under such a regime this one might attract
> a tax surcharge...
>
> His 30-Odd Boats features Wish II, a 20'(very) boxy
> leeboard yawl
> that to my eye is beautiful in comparison to this
> 55-foot monster. He
> presents a couple of colour schemes, meant to break
> up the slab-sided
> look, that he calls dazzle-camouflage.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson"
> <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> > Anybody ever seen a Bolger Box with a scene
> painted on the side?
> Might draw the attention away from the 'ugliness' of
> the substrate.
> Come to think of it, you might just be able to get
> it painted so as
> to disappear against its background! Mirrored sides
> might do that
> too - Didn't they do that in the first version of
> Star Wars?
> >
> > Now how many mirror tiles d'you think would need
> to be ordered?
> >
> > Bill
>
>
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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> Bruce, looking at those renderings, she still be flathttp://community.webshots.com/album/339723438ZwGNnR
> sheered bye!
Shows some pictures of a model.
I think the curves remind me of the $million$ dollar
racing hulls I see on the finger pier near Treasure
Island in San Francisco Bay [minus the deep fin keels]
Bruce, looking at those renderings, she still be flat
sheered bye!
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
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sheered bye!
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> A couple of years ago I put a couple of photo's of__________________________________________________
> Ramon Gandia's
> partially completed "Seven Stars" in Bolger 2 files,
> file name is
> Seven Stars. Quite similar to the 55 under
> discussion and not to bad in
> real life.
>
> HJ
>
> Hugo Tyson wrote:
>
> >No its still pretty bad in 3D, the major fault with
> its looks is that it has no sheer, or I should say a
> dead straight-flat sheer. Even a reverse sheer would
> look better!!!
> >
> >Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:I am
> compelled to come to the defense of
> >this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
> >the curves of such a boat are not apparent
> >on the flatness of paper.
> >
> >Here is a rendering of the curves...
> >
> >http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
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A couple of years ago I put a couple of photo's of Ramon Gandia's
partially completed "Seven Stars" in Bolger 2 files, file name is
Seven Stars. Quite similar to the 55 under discussion and not to bad in
real life.
HJ
Hugo Tyson wrote:
partially completed "Seven Stars" in Bolger 2 files, file name is
Seven Stars. Quite similar to the 55 under discussion and not to bad in
real life.
HJ
Hugo Tyson wrote:
>No its still pretty bad in 3D, the major fault with its looks is that it has no sheer, or I should say a dead straight-flat sheer. Even a reverse sheer would look better!!!
>
>Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:I am compelled to come to the defense of
>this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
>the curves of such a boat are not apparent
>on the flatness of paper.
>
>Here is a rendering of the curves...
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
>
>
>
> but I would prefer a gaff rigg with a jib and a smaller gaff rig inI agree about the look of a old fashion gaff rig, but I think
> back with another staysail infront of it above the Pilot house.
> With a big boomkin and bow sprit it would give it a better look.
> The plain gaff rig goes to windward better anyway.
> John
that the 55 foot sharpie was an early itieration of Bolger
working with the idea of 'reef from safety' for ocean
crossing, like Col. Hassler, and the modified junk rig
reefs very well. That is my guess at least, the rig Bolger
chose was for ease of use during ocean passages.
I think that in 2005, Bolger would update the rig, for sure.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
end the way to walk. I don't know what you have against the Big
Ill. but I think with side paddle wheels it would look like an old
steamer. It still would make a better living space than a mobil
home just the way it was designed. I love the 55' pilot house Idea
but I would prefer a gaff rigg with a jib and a smaller gaff rig in
back with another staysail infront of it above the Pilot house.
With a big boomkin and bow sprit it would give it a better look.
The plain gaff rig goes to windward better anyway.
John
> > I uploaded a drawing for a much modified Bolger 55 intoBolger5.
> >Yes Bruce, The lower bow and stern would make crouching at either
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/Bolger%2055.PDF
>
> Cool looking! It would be interesting to see an interior layout.
>
> Comparing your design to Bolger, I see that the lack of shear
> on the Bolger version has an incidental benefit of providing
> headroom in the forward and aft cabins.
end the way to walk. I don't know what you have against the Big
Ill. but I think with side paddle wheels it would look like an old
steamer. It still would make a better living space than a mobil
home just the way it was designed. I love the 55' pilot house Idea
but I would prefer a gaff rigg with a jib and a smaller gaff rig in
back with another staysail infront of it above the Pilot house.
With a big boomkin and bow sprit it would give it a better look.
The plain gaff rig goes to windward better anyway.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Badley" <badley@...>
> All in all, just a bunch of ideas that kept me away from work.
>
> RonB.
I was gonna say, Don't you have more important things to do Ron?
Seriously, it looks really nice. I like the look and
the rig.
Gary
> I uploaded a drawing for a much modified Bolger 55 into Bolger5.Cool looking! It would be interesting to see an interior layout.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/Bolger%2055.PDF
Comparing your design to Bolger, I see that the lack of shear
on the Bolger version has an incidental benefit of providing
headroom in the forward and aft cabins.
I uploaded a drawing for a much modified Bolger 55 into Bolger5.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/Bolger%2055.PDF
It even has a reverse sheer! The reverse sheer is an easy way to get a
curved deck that will drain well. It should be much easier to build
than a deck that curves athwartships. Makes for those nice square edges
out by the rails. It also lowers the freeboard forward which is better
for windward performance.
The roof over the cockpit spans from life-rail to life-rail. Solar
panels would be placed on top.
You can stand up in the cockpit. ...as long as you are no taller than
6'8". Unlikely.
The rig is my favorite at this moment in time. Very simple, powerful
and looks cool.
The prop would be belt driven by either the diesel engine/generator or
an electric motor. The dagger-board would be raised any time hitting
bottom is possible. The fixed keel would protect the rudder and prop. A
big heavy steel shoe on the bottom of the keel would be a good choice.
Maybe the whole keel should be steel. Maybe the whole boat?
All in all, just a bunch of ideas that kept me away from work.
RonB.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/Bolger%2055.PDF
It even has a reverse sheer! The reverse sheer is an easy way to get a
curved deck that will drain well. It should be much easier to build
than a deck that curves athwartships. Makes for those nice square edges
out by the rails. It also lowers the freeboard forward which is better
for windward performance.
The roof over the cockpit spans from life-rail to life-rail. Solar
panels would be placed on top.
You can stand up in the cockpit. ...as long as you are no taller than
6'8". Unlikely.
The rig is my favorite at this moment in time. Very simple, powerful
and looks cool.
The prop would be belt driven by either the diesel engine/generator or
an electric motor. The dagger-board would be raised any time hitting
bottom is possible. The fixed keel would protect the rudder and prop. A
big heavy steel shoe on the bottom of the keel would be a good choice.
Maybe the whole keel should be steel. Maybe the whole boat?
All in all, just a bunch of ideas that kept me away from work.
RonB.
> Illinois is beautiful.In our dreams, when will somebody build one?
> Bruce Hallman wrote:I need to chime in also. The 55 foot sharpie, is simply another in
>
> > I am compelled to come to the defense of
> > this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
> > the curves of such a boat are not apparent
> > on the flatness of paper.
> >
the line from "Old Shoe" Micro and AS-29, through "Loose Moose"
to "Joseph Banks". It is no uglier, nor more handsome than any of
those. Just pick the right paint scheme and you have a handsome boat.
The 55 foot sharpie is essentially a 1/2 scale version of the steel
freighter Joseph Banks in BWOM including the Chinese rig with
multiple lines coming to a central winch station. I find the
renderings in BWOM showing a utilitarian, but ruggedly handsome boat.
Illinois, #630 is a 63' power version of the same scheme with less
rocker and a thick shoe rather than a box keel. Illinois, painted a
solid color would be stark and boxy, looking like an adrift semi-
trailer. But with the simple color scheme Bolger suggests, it looks
like a very handsome 1930s Elko (sp?) power yacht. I've found
several pics of beautiful 1930's power yachts on the web. It is very
clear Bolger "styled" Illinois paint scheme to capture that look. He
is outstandingly successful. Illinois is beautiful.
Wow! What do you want? It's even got a pointed bow. Clyde
Bruce Hallman wrote:
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> I am compelled to come to the defense of[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
> the curves of such a boat are not apparent
> on the flatness of paper.
>
> Here is a rendering of the curves...
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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>
Camper was in Mike O'Brien's latest "Boat Deasign Quarterly", but
I don't have a way to post it. If no one else can help, I could mail a
copy next week. Clyde
richardpercolator wrote:
I don't have a way to post it. If no one else can help, I could mail a
copy next week. Clyde
richardpercolator wrote:
> Hi Folks[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> *http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to insist on those high heels.If you have the luxury to afford it, of course.
A fast, shoal draft, ocean crossing capable live-on-board
home for a family of five with five economical dingys
on deck, simple, quick and economically backyard
buildable on a low income. Unprecedented, really.
The whole boat would probably cost less than the
just the winches on some other 55 foot sailboats,
plus, off the wind, could likely out sail them too.
There was a picture of big Bolger sharpie for sale in MAIB some years
ago. It was even uglier than drawings could have indicated. Sometimes
you just have to insist on those high heels.
Doug
ago. It was even uglier than drawings could have indicated. Sometimes
you just have to insist on those high heels.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Coho" <abcoho@v...> wrote:
> I can see a lot of his box boats in the design, and a lot of them look
> pretty darn good once they are built.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Mrs. Jacobson's first grade class. I've seen this design years ago,
and at the time was sure this offering was Phil's idea of tongue-in-
cheek!
If Bolger and I were still speaking, I'd ask him what he was
drinking on that particular evening when he drew the boat.
Chuck
> > Now this is one very ugly boat,Face it. It's bloody ugly. The boat looks like it was designed by
>
> Interesting word 'ugly'.
>
> As analogy consider the word 'ugly'
> in context of comparing shoes,
> specfically some women's high heel shoes
> versus some sturdy flat walking shoes.
>
> How much does function and economy
> relate to ugly?
Mrs. Jacobson's first grade class. I've seen this design years ago,
and at the time was sure this offering was Phil's idea of tongue-in-
cheek!
If Bolger and I were still speaking, I'd ask him what he was
drinking on that particular evening when he drew the boat.
Chuck
I personally love this design and think it makes more sense than the
Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for better speed but
why no center board and diesel inboard engine. Maybe I have built
to many boats with inboards and swing keels or dagger boards and
maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form are plain butt
ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or at least a
canted dagger bard on each side for better turning and the box keel
is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel storage.
I think an inboard diesel s far better when you consider fuel
consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie that was designed
in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat as the Bolger
design.
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
I would have to pencil in expenses on building but the Atkin Design
would be faster even with a shorter water line and could easily beat
upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I would say it
would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard diesel also.
The obsession with high torque outboards on boats over forty feet is
not to my liking. They cost much more than an inboard and they do
not match the fuel economy. They are not on the market used either
so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is not very likely.
The new Bolger variant looks all the world like the Illinois with
sails, a box keel and fewer port lights. That grand Illinois is my
favorite Bolger sharpie and I thought with a large limited slip
truck differential driving side paddles hooked into a moderate
diesel with brakes to stop one or the other paddle wheels at a time
it could be very maneuverable and cruise longer distances. The
paddle covers could act like out riggers with faired in flotation.
Just a thought and I have a few drawings that I have come up with.
Without sails these days you can not afford a bigger boat and the
fuel costs.
I now think that strip planking and a few layers of cold molding
over that is far less expensive than even the least expensive
plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood right now is the
most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost for an order
the other day and it had tripled in price from two years ago. Cheap
doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the edge now in
cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints and cutting the
cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to resaw on a band
saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and it also very
inexpensive but labor intensive. I have been looking at a cost per
foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as a steel boat.
The price of steel also went up. Sorry for all the random thoughts
but a bigger inexpensive boat has been in my planning sages for over
two years and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
for that illusive design that will balance al of my needs.
John
Loose Moose LaCabotin design. It has length for better speed but
why no center board and diesel inboard engine. Maybe I have built
to many boats with inboards and swing keels or dagger boards and
maybe I just think lee boards on a nice hull form are plain butt
ugly? In any case this design needs a good keel or at least a
canted dagger bard on each side for better turning and the box keel
is perfect for battery banks, water and diesel storage.
I think an inboard diesel s far better when you consider fuel
consumption I was just looking at a nice sharpie that was designed
in the 1930's and it would be maybe as nice a boat as the Bolger
design.
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/MissieAndLaurie.html
I would have to pencil in expenses on building but the Atkin Design
would be faster even with a shorter water line and could easily beat
upwind. If the Bolger design had a center board I would say it
would be a better boat as long as it had an inboard diesel also.
The obsession with high torque outboards on boats over forty feet is
not to my liking. They cost much more than an inboard and they do
not match the fuel economy. They are not on the market used either
so getting a rebuildable 4 stroke outboard engine is not very likely.
The new Bolger variant looks all the world like the Illinois with
sails, a box keel and fewer port lights. That grand Illinois is my
favorite Bolger sharpie and I thought with a large limited slip
truck differential driving side paddles hooked into a moderate
diesel with brakes to stop one or the other paddle wheels at a time
it could be very maneuverable and cruise longer distances. The
paddle covers could act like out riggers with faired in flotation.
Just a thought and I have a few drawings that I have come up with.
Without sails these days you can not afford a bigger boat and the
fuel costs.
I now think that strip planking and a few layers of cold molding
over that is far less expensive than even the least expensive
plywood now. I do not say cheap because plywood right now is the
most expensive it has ever been. I called in a cost for an order
the other day and it had tripled in price from two years ago. Cheap
doug fir lumber to cut into strip planking has the edge now in
cost. Even when you consider all the finger joints and cutting the
cup and bullnose into the strips. Then you have to resaw on a band
saw all the western red cedar for cold molding and it also very
inexpensive but labor intensive. I have been looking at a cost per
foot basis and plywood is now almost as expensive as a steel boat.
The price of steel also went up. Sorry for all the random thoughts
but a bigger inexpensive boat has been in my planning sages for over
two years and I have a very sharp pencil now. I am still looking
for that illusive design that will balance al of my needs.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
>
> > I see allot of Sir Joseph Banks in the 55 footer.
> > I'd guess the 55 is
> > an older design. That long keel seems like a
> > backwards step from
> > something like the board on Loose Moose. We have no
> > idea how much of
> > the 55 was the whim of the client and how much was
> > Phil's own musings.
> >
> > RonB.
> >
> > I like the mural too!
> >
>
> PB&F began using the box keels more extensively about
> eight or ten years ago. They told me and I think
> they've said in print, perhaps in BWOM or in one of
> the MAIB articles that the box keels help the water
> flow more smoothly along the length of the boat.
>
> I doubt if box keels and lee boards are mutually
> exclusive although I can't think of a PB&F design that
> utilizes them both off the top of my head.
>
> Phil Smith
> I see allot of Sir Joseph Banks in the 55 footer.PB&F began using the box keels more extensively about
> I'd guess the 55 is
> an older design. That long keel seems like a
> backwards step from
> something like the board on Loose Moose. We have no
> idea how much of
> the 55 was the whim of the client and how much was
> Phil's own musings.
>
> RonB.
>
> I like the mural too!
>
eight or ten years ago. They told me and I think
they've said in print, perhaps in BWOM or in one of
the MAIB articles that the box keels help the water
flow more smoothly along the length of the boat.
I doubt if box keels and lee boards are mutually
exclusive although I can't think of a PB&F design that
utilizes them both off the top of my head.
Phil Smith
> No its still pretty bad in 3D, the major fault withOne of the main reasons PB&F design hulls with no
> its looks is that it has no sheer, or I should say a
> dead straight-flat sheer. Even a reverse sheer would
> look better!!!
>
sheer is economy. Curves cost money to build,
especially if your medium is a sheet material such as
plywood or steel.
Clearly PB&F can draw beautiful boats which have
sensous cuves all over the place. If you compare the
40' +/- designs in BWOM, you will see that Barn Owl
does not show much in common with Loose Moose II
except that they were both drawn by genius.
True genius may be more evident in LM II than in Barn
Owl because, until it was drawn and then built,
everyone knew, especially yacht designers, that you
couldn't build a 40' sailing vessel for the material
cost of LM II.
Phil Smith
No its still pretty bad in 3D, the major fault with its looks is that it has no sheer, or I should say a dead straight-flat sheer. Even a reverse sheer would look better!!!
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:I am compelled to come to the defense of
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:I am compelled to come to the defense of
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeez, I kinda liked it. The layout doesn't suit my needs. If it was
changed around a bit a sunken cockpit would take care of the upper most
box. I'd put the cockpit right under the main sheet horse traveller
thingie-ma-bob. Paint on a nice sheer line and away you go.
I see allot of Sir Joseph Banks in the 55 footer. I'd guess the 55 is
an older design. That long keel seems like a backwards step from
something like the board on Loose Moose. We have no idea how much of
the 55 was the whim of the client and how much was Phil's own musings.
RonB.
I like the mural too!
changed around a bit a sunken cockpit would take care of the upper most
box. I'd put the cockpit right under the main sheet horse traveller
thingie-ma-bob. Paint on a nice sheer line and away you go.
I see allot of Sir Joseph Banks in the 55 footer. I'd guess the 55 is
an older design. That long keel seems like a backwards step from
something like the board on Loose Moose. We have no idea how much of
the 55 was the whim of the client and how much was Phil's own musings.
RonB.
I like the mural too!
I am compelled to come to the defense of
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
<http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Beats the CSS Virginia, the Monitor, and almost all Civil War ironclads.
No uglier than a Thames Barge. Plenty nicer than most powerboats.
The box-pilothouse could be spiffed up a little if you cared to. Bolger is
saying "Why bother?"
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
<http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Beats the CSS Virginia, the Monitor, and almost all Civil War ironclads.
No uglier than a Thames Barge. Plenty nicer than most powerboats.
The box-pilothouse could be spiffed up a little if you cared to. Bolger is
saying "Why bother?"
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am compelled to come to the defense of
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
this 55 foot sharpie. It is well known that
the curves of such a boat are not apparent
on the flatness of paper.
Here is a rendering of the curves...
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Bolger has suggested more than once that boat owners should get some
kind of tax break for having beautiful boats that improve the
scenery. Under such a regime this one might attract a tax surcharge...
His 30-Odd Boats features Wish II, a 20'(very) boxy leeboard yawl
that to my eye is beautiful in comparison to this 55-foot monster. He
presents a couple of colour schemes, meant to break up the slab-sided
look, that he calls dazzle-camouflage.
Howard
kind of tax break for having beautiful boats that improve the
scenery. Under such a regime this one might attract a tax surcharge...
His 30-Odd Boats features Wish II, a 20'(very) boxy leeboard yawl
that to my eye is beautiful in comparison to this 55-foot monster. He
presents a couple of colour schemes, meant to break up the slab-sided
look, that he calls dazzle-camouflage.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Anybody ever seen a Bolger Box with a scene painted on the side?
Might draw the attention away from the 'ugliness' of the substrate.
Come to think of it, you might just be able to get it painted so as
to disappear against its background! Mirrored sides might do that
too - Didn't they do that in the first version of Star Wars?
>
> Now how many mirror tiles d'you think would need to be ordered?
>
> Bill
Anybody ever seen a Bolger Box with a scene painted on the side? Might draw the attention away from the 'ugliness' of the substrate. Come to think of it, you might just be able to get it painted so as to disappear against its background! Mirrored sides might do that too - Didn't they do that in the first version of Star Wars?
Now how many mirror tiles d'you think would need to be ordered?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now how many mirror tiles d'you think would need to be ordered?
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is certainly not one of PCB's most attractive drawings. Not sure
about the boat. AS-29 looks real good from some angle, not so good
from others. Paint scheme counts for a lot.
about the boat. AS-29 looks real good from some angle, not so good
from others. Paint scheme counts for a lot.
> Now this is one very ugly boat,Interesting word 'ugly'.
As analogy consider the word 'ugly'
in context of comparing shoes,
specfically some women's high heel shoes
versus some sturdy flat walking shoes.
How much does function and economy
relate to ugly?
I think it was the great philosopher, Forrest Gump, who claimed
the "Pretty is as pretty does". It looks like it would be a
comfortable boat to live on and a safe one to move to other
interesting places. While the concept is very basic and industrial
looking, I have to think that If it was ever carried through to a
final drawing, it might be a little better looking.
I can see a lot of his box boats in the design, and a lot of them look
pretty darn good once they are built.
Bruce
the "Pretty is as pretty does". It looks like it would be a
comfortable boat to live on and a safe one to move to other
interesting places. While the concept is very basic and industrial
looking, I have to think that If it was ever carried through to a
final drawing, it might be a little better looking.
I can see a lot of his box boats in the design, and a lot of them look
pretty darn good once they are built.
Bruce
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
> Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'm sure for its
purpose but truly ugly. Someone on this group said that they
thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I
think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
>
> Hugo Tyson.
>
> Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I suspect I am not alone around here,
> being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
> sharpies. Here is another of them.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
I didn't want to say anything, but I agree with Hugo... hehehehe
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
> Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'm sure for its
purpose but truly ugly. Someone on this group said that they
thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I
think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
>
> Hugo Tyson.
>
> Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I suspect I am not alone around here,
> being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
> sharpies. Here is another of them.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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Service.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow! Someone has finally come out and said it. Some
of the Bolger designs may be practical and seem
"cheap" but sometimes the tradeoff is difficult to
stomach. On the other hand, Birdwatcher is functional
and pretty.
David
--- Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
Post your free ad now!http://personals.yahoo.ca
of the Bolger designs may be practical and seem
"cheap" but sometimes the tradeoff is difficult to
stomach. On the other hand, Birdwatcher is functional
and pretty.
David
--- Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
> Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'mhttp://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/_0TolB/TM
> sure for its purpose but truly ugly. Someone on this
> group said that they thought "Bell's Puffer" was
> ugly, but after looking at this design I think that
> they'd have to think again!!!!!?
>
> Hugo Tyson.
>
> Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> I suspect I am not alone around here,
> being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
> sharpies. Here is another of them.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo!
> Movies.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
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>______________________________________________________________________
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Post your free ad now!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Now this is one very ugly boat, very functional I'm sure for its purpose but truly ugly. Someone on this group said that they thought "Bell's Puffer" was ugly, but after looking at this design I think that they'd have to think again!!!!!?
Hugo Tyson.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
I suspect I am not alone around here,
being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
sharpies. Here is another of them.
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hugo Tyson.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
I suspect I am not alone around here,
being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
sharpies. Here is another of them.
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 5/2/05, Sam Glasscock
Messing About in Boats, Vol.16 No. 6, August 1 1998.
> What is the source orf this articalBruce?Sorry,
Messing About in Boats, Vol.16 No. 6, August 1 1998.
What is the source orf this articalBruce? I would
love to get one of these box keel designes for diesel
propulson at the maximum trailerable size.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
love to get one of these box keel designes for diesel
propulson at the maximum trailerable size.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> I suspect I am not alone around here,__________________________________________________
> being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
> sharpies. Here is another of them.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I suspect I am not alone around here,
being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
sharpies. Here is another of them.
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
being a fan of Bolger's big live-on-board
sharpies. Here is another of them.
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
I have never seen one either.
I think the difference between the Navigator and Micro with a dodger
is that you can sail with weather protection in the Navigator. It was
fine in warm weather, but I expect the concept to be even more useful
during the coming winter. Sailing within the glassed cabin, visibilty
is extremely good all around, and the large hatch slid forward with an
open front window, almost seems like riding in an open car. But if you
don't like the idea of being 'indoors', the Navigator may not suit.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
I think the difference between the Navigator and Micro with a dodger
is that you can sail with weather protection in the Navigator. It was
fine in warm weather, but I expect the concept to be even more useful
during the coming winter. Sailing within the glassed cabin, visibilty
is extremely good all around, and the large hatch slid forward with an
open front window, almost seems like riding in an open car. But if you
don't like the idea of being 'indoors', the Navigator may not suit.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...> wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> This may be a well-trodden subject here, but I've had no luck
> searching the message archives for answers to the question I'm about
> to ask, so forgive any repetition-irritation this may cause. Here
> goes:
>
> Does anyone out there have any pictures or drawings of dodger and/or
> cockpit tent designs for Micro? I live in the ever-chilly Puget Sound
> area where dodgers are pretty much mandatory. I'm torn between the
> Navigator and "regular" versions of Micro, and feel like a good
> dodger/enclosure could make the regular Micro almost as
> rain-and-cold-friendly as the Navigator. Any thoughts?
>
> Bonus question: Anyone have any pictures of Camper, Bolger design
> #640? I've seen mention of it here, but can't find any pictures or
> drawings. Anyone got the issue of MAIB that featured it who would be
> willing to scan it?
>
> --Richard
Hi Folks
This may be a well-trodden subject here, but I've had no luck
searching the message archives for answers to the question I'm about
to ask, so forgive any repetition-irritation this may cause. Here
goes:
Does anyone out there have any pictures or drawings of dodger and/or
cockpit tent designs for Micro? I live in the ever-chilly Puget Sound
area where dodgers are pretty much mandatory. I'm torn between the
Navigator and "regular" versions of Micro, and feel like a good
dodger/enclosure could make the regular Micro almost as
rain-and-cold-friendly as the Navigator. Any thoughts?
Bonus question: Anyone have any pictures of Camper, Bolger design
#640? I've seen mention of it here, but can't find any pictures or
drawings. Anyone got the issue of MAIB that featured it who would be
willing to scan it?
--Richard
This may be a well-trodden subject here, but I've had no luck
searching the message archives for answers to the question I'm about
to ask, so forgive any repetition-irritation this may cause. Here
goes:
Does anyone out there have any pictures or drawings of dodger and/or
cockpit tent designs for Micro? I live in the ever-chilly Puget Sound
area where dodgers are pretty much mandatory. I'm torn between the
Navigator and "regular" versions of Micro, and feel like a good
dodger/enclosure could make the regular Micro almost as
rain-and-cold-friendly as the Navigator. Any thoughts?
Bonus question: Anyone have any pictures of Camper, Bolger design
#640? I've seen mention of it here, but can't find any pictures or
drawings. Anyone got the issue of MAIB that featured it who would be
willing to scan it?
--Richard