Re: [bolger] Micro Progress/lead hardness
Hi Bernie,
The"huge downside"which you refer to,is ONLY true if one forgets
to plug/fill the holes one has drilled with something useful! :-D
Warm Regards,
Peter Lenihan,itching to begin his seventh season with his MICRO
which looks as beautiful and strong as the day she was launched,off
the shores of the St.Lawrence......316 stainless keelbolts and
all.....
The"huge downside"which you refer to,is ONLY true if one forgets
to plug/fill the holes one has drilled with something useful! :-D
Warm Regards,
Peter Lenihan,itching to begin his seventh season with his MICRO
which looks as beautiful and strong as the day she was launched,off
the shores of the St.Lawrence......316 stainless keelbolts and
all.....
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Bernie Wolfard" <berniew@n...> wrote:
> I think the idea of dabbling in "traditional" boat building
> methods
> is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge
> downside to this in that it is generally considered a bad idea to
> drill holes in the bottom of a boat!
> As designed, a MICRO keel will pull the bottom off the boat before
it
> lets go. This has been proved in personal experience as well in
> countless numbers of MICRO'S out there with keels attached as per
> plans. MICRO'S keel structure is a true composite, only different
> from high tech airplanes in that the composites interior foam is
> replaced with lead. It is as strong or stronger but with the mass
> make it a keel instead of a wing.
> That said, the idea of using ½" plywood on MICRO'S bottom is
> well
> founded. She will not be worst for the weight and be much strong,
> especially in taking the ground.
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> > Peter,
> > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
> being
> > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
> > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
> happening
> > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install
> 3
> > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
> > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
> dowels
> > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
exterior
> > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
> > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
> you
> > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
> >
> > David Jost
> > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
> frames,
> > and all spars and sails."
I think the idea of dabbling in "traditional" boat building
methods
is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge
downside to this in that it is generally considered a bad idea to
drill holes in the bottom of a boat!
As designed, a MICRO keel will pull the bottom off the boat before it
lets go. This has been proved in personal experience as well in
countless numbers of MICRO'S out there with keels attached as per
plans. MICRO'S keel structure is a true composite, only different
from high tech airplanes in that the composites interior foam is
replaced with lead. It is as strong or stronger but with the mass
make it a keel instead of a wing.
That said, the idea of using ½" plywood on MICRO'S bottom is
well
founded. She will not be worst for the weight and be much strong,
especially in taking the ground.
methods
is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge
downside to this in that it is generally considered a bad idea to
drill holes in the bottom of a boat!
As designed, a MICRO keel will pull the bottom off the boat before it
lets go. This has been proved in personal experience as well in
countless numbers of MICRO'S out there with keels attached as per
plans. MICRO'S keel structure is a true composite, only different
from high tech airplanes in that the composites interior foam is
replaced with lead. It is as strong or stronger but with the mass
make it a keel instead of a wing.
That said, the idea of using ½" plywood on MICRO'S bottom is
well
founded. She will not be worst for the weight and be much strong,
especially in taking the ground.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> Peter,
> I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
being
> careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
> keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
happening
> for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install
3
> bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
> provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
dowels
> were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
> sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
> How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
you
> use for caulking around the bolt holes?
>
> David Jost
> " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
frames,
> and all spars and sails."
That certainly explains a lot! I will stick with bronze rod (since I
already have quite a bit of it). I certainly can see why stainless
would corrode under such circumstances. I would rather have the
ballast corrode than the fastenings. I had an old Herreshoff day
sailor that had bronze fastenings throughout. They were still in
excellent condition despite 30 years of immersion in salt water. The
keel on that boat was starting to corrode a bit, mainly due to the
interaction of the copper bottom paint with the lead. This was
shortly
after the ban on paints with TFB in them. (I think that's the
correct
name)
I now understand how stainless cannot be effective in an anaerobic
environment. It needs to be exposed to the air to form its
protective
coating.
Thanks for the input.
David Jost
already have quite a bit of it). I certainly can see why stainless
would corrode under such circumstances. I would rather have the
ballast corrode than the fastenings. I had an old Herreshoff day
sailor that had bronze fastenings throughout. They were still in
excellent condition despite 30 years of immersion in salt water. The
keel on that boat was starting to corrode a bit, mainly due to the
interaction of the copper bottom paint with the lead. This was
shortly
after the ban on paints with TFB in them. (I think that's the
correct
name)
I now understand how stainless cannot be effective in an anaerobic
environment. It needs to be exposed to the air to form its
protective
coating.
Thanks for the input.
David Jost
David,
Tradition and experience mediate against your choice. Bronze has
been used successfully in keelbolts for centuries. Stainless steel has
a checkered history in this application. As I understand it, bronze is
more "noble" than lead, and the lead keel will slowly waste away,
very slowly, over decades (it's a lot of lead), in the presence of the
small amount of bronze. The bronze rod will (in theory) not be
affected. With stainless steel, the rod, buried in the keel and with no
access to oxygen to maintain a stainless surface, will corrode rapidly
over a few seasons. In any case, make sure that whatever keelbolts
you use are easily removable for inspection and replacement, as
wierd things happen to them, and losing your ballast can ruin your day,
david
David Jost wrote:
Tradition and experience mediate against your choice. Bronze has
been used successfully in keelbolts for centuries. Stainless steel has
a checkered history in this application. As I understand it, bronze is
more "noble" than lead, and the lead keel will slowly waste away,
very slowly, over decades (it's a lot of lead), in the presence of the
small amount of bronze. The bronze rod will (in theory) not be
affected. With stainless steel, the rod, buried in the keel and with no
access to oxygen to maintain a stainless surface, will corrode rapidly
over a few seasons. In any case, make sure that whatever keelbolts
you use are easily removable for inspection and replacement, as
wierd things happen to them, and losing your ballast can ruin your day,
david
David Jost wrote:
> I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will
> stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
> planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
> neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
> These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
> garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
> good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
> table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
> and
> lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
> >
>
> > >
> - In
> >bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> > > Peter,
> > > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
> > being
> > > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting
> the
> > > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
> > happening
> > > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will
> install
> > 3
> > > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
> > > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
> > dowels
> > > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
> exterior
> > > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
> > > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
> > you
> > > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
> > >
> > > David Jost
> > > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
> > frames,
> > > and all spars and sails."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now the best and coolest websites come right to you based on your
> unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching.
> And, it's FREE!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3013/6/_/3457/_/957137427/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Jost wrote:
"Boatbuilding Manual" and Gerr's "The Nature of Boats".
Both show stainless steel in *two* places. This comes about
because stainless steel has two states, active and passive.
If it is in (steady) contact with oxygen (air or water), its
state is passive and it is more compatible with lead than
bronze. However, if there is no oxygen, like inside a keel,
then stainless steel becomes active, and is much less compatible
than bronze. That is, it will corrode (the keel lead will
eat it, so to speak). This applies to type 316, too.
Sakari Aaltonen
> I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I willWhich chart did you check? I checked the ones in Steward's
> stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
> planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
> neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
> These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
> garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
> good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
> table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
> and
> lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
"Boatbuilding Manual" and Gerr's "The Nature of Boats".
Both show stainless steel in *two* places. This comes about
because stainless steel has two states, active and passive.
If it is in (steady) contact with oxygen (air or water), its
state is passive and it is more compatible with lead than
bronze. However, if there is no oxygen, like inside a keel,
then stainless steel becomes active, and is much less compatible
than bronze. That is, it will corrode (the keel lead will
eat it, so to speak). This applies to type 316, too.
Sakari Aaltonen
I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will
stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
and
lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
and
lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
>- In
> >
>bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:the
> > Peter,
> > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
> being
> > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting
> > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good thingsinstall
> happening
> > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will
> 3exterior
> > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
> > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
> dowels
> > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
> > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
> > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
> you
> > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
> >
> > David Jost
> > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
> frames,
> > and all spars and sails."
-
Hello David,
The nuts,on the inside,come up through the keelson and then
through 3/4" by 4 inch square pads,followed by two washers.Thats
it.As each keel bolt was run up into the boat,I made sure that the
bolt was well lathered with SIKA-FLEX along it's whole lenght.Since I
had already made recesses in the lead for the bottom nuts,it was an
easy matter to snug up the lot from inside the boat without needing
anyone holding the nuts under the boat.
Continued success with your project!
Peter Lenihan
Montreal,Quebec
- In
bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
Hello David,
The nuts,on the inside,come up through the keelson and then
through 3/4" by 4 inch square pads,followed by two washers.Thats
it.As each keel bolt was run up into the boat,I made sure that the
bolt was well lathered with SIKA-FLEX along it's whole lenght.Since I
had already made recesses in the lead for the bottom nuts,it was an
easy matter to snug up the lot from inside the boat without needing
anyone holding the nuts under the boat.
Continued success with your project!
Peter Lenihan
Montreal,Quebec
- In
bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> Peter,being
> I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
> careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting thehappening
> keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
> for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install3
> bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and willdowels
> provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
> were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterioryou
> sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
> How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
> use for caulking around the bolt holes?frames,
>
> David Jost
> " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
> and all spars and sails."
Peter,
I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as being
careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things happening
for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install 3
bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood dowels
were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did you
use for caulking around the bolt holes?
David Jost
" glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2 frames,
and all spars and sails."
I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as being
careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things happening
for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install 3
bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood dowels
were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did you
use for caulking around the bolt holes?
David Jost
" glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2 frames,
and all spars and sails."
Hello David,
I too was somewhat pre-occupied with the ultimate strenght of
the MICRO keel assembly in a grounding.This was one of the prime
reasons why I chose to go with a 1/2" bottom,internal keelson and
bolts up through the whole lot.It also allowed me to dabble just
briefly with some"traditional"building methods.Not exactly as per the
plans and I am sure that many could probably produce reams of numbers
to demonstrate that as per plan,the keel assembly is plenty strong.I
am no expert in boat designing or engineering by anyones
definition,but the peace-of-mind factor that I achieved has been
priceless as I routinely run my MICRO up various beaches and these
not always of the soft and sandy variety!Furthermore,where I sail
(St.Lawrence River) I knew that contending constantly with a current
would eventually produce a situation whereby with a falling wind,I
could very well be carried along sideways and perhaps experience a
side impact to the keel........So I beefed up the whole affair,paying
careful attention to respect Mr.Bolger's keel profile and ballast
location and weight.Six seasons later,I have experienced no grief
from my keel and remain a very happy camper!
Best Regards,
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Montréal,Québec
I too was somewhat pre-occupied with the ultimate strenght of
the MICRO keel assembly in a grounding.This was one of the prime
reasons why I chose to go with a 1/2" bottom,internal keelson and
bolts up through the whole lot.It also allowed me to dabble just
briefly with some"traditional"building methods.Not exactly as per the
plans and I am sure that many could probably produce reams of numbers
to demonstrate that as per plan,the keel assembly is plenty strong.I
am no expert in boat designing or engineering by anyones
definition,but the peace-of-mind factor that I achieved has been
priceless as I routinely run my MICRO up various beaches and these
not always of the soft and sandy variety!Furthermore,where I sail
(St.Lawrence River) I knew that contending constantly with a current
would eventually produce a situation whereby with a falling wind,I
could very well be carried along sideways and perhaps experience a
side impact to the keel........So I beefed up the whole affair,paying
careful attention to respect Mr.Bolger's keel profile and ballast
location and weight.Six seasons later,I have experienced no grief
from my keel and remain a very happy camper!
Best Regards,
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Montréal,Québec
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> Thanks Peter,
> I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to
> where the information is coming from, I just knew the information
was
> there someplace.
> To be more specific about the process. I have a small
foundry
> that I plan to melt everything then pour into the mold in a
similar
> fashion to how you did it. I am tempted to put keel bolts in
> although
> the plans do not call for it. I am just a little leary about
hitting
> a
> rock and losing the keel in the process. Although, the floor
would
> probably break as well, making the whole thing a moot point.
>
> David Jost
Thanks Peter,
I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to
where the information is coming from, I just knew the information was
there someplace.
To be more specific about the process. I have a small foundry
that I plan to melt everything then pour into the mold in a similar
fashion to how you did it. I am tempted to put keel bolts in
although
the plans do not call for it. I am just a little leary about hitting
a
rock and losing the keel in the process. Although, the floor would
probably break as well, making the whole thing a moot point.
David Jost
I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to
where the information is coming from, I just knew the information was
there someplace.
To be more specific about the process. I have a small foundry
that I plan to melt everything then pour into the mold in a similar
fashion to how you did it. I am tempted to put keel bolts in
although
the plans do not call for it. I am just a little leary about hitting
a
rock and losing the keel in the process. Although, the floor would
probably break as well, making the whole thing a moot point.
David Jost
Hello David Jost,
I would like to bring to your attention that I do not have a web
site.However,if one goes to the wonderful DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE site,you
will find amongst the "articles" section my pictoral essay on how I
poured my MICRO keel.Chuck Leinweber did a wonderful job of
deciphering my scribbled notes and scanning my pictures!!
Regarding your keel,I would be most concerned simply about
achieving the correct weight as presecribed by the designer and
ensuring that the finished keel remains in one cohesive mass as
apposed to a loose mix of assorted of weights/metals(lead
anchor?).But this is just my two Canadian cents worth of opinion!:-)
Best of luck!
Peter Lenihan
Montréal,Québec
I would like to bring to your attention that I do not have a web
site.However,if one goes to the wonderful DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE site,you
will find amongst the "articles" section my pictoral essay on how I
poured my MICRO keel.Chuck Leinweber did a wonderful job of
deciphering my scribbled notes and scanning my pictures!!
Regarding your keel,I would be most concerned simply about
achieving the correct weight as presecribed by the designer and
ensuring that the finished keel remains in one cohesive mass as
apposed to a loose mix of assorted of weights/metals(lead
anchor?).But this is just my two Canadian cents worth of opinion!:-)
Best of luck!
Peter Lenihan
Montréal,Québec
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see
Peter
> Lenihan's web site.
> I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
> hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
> complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails
through,
> wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
> I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's
belts
> (150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
> (60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
> is
> stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
> I
> do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
> something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
> handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
> Any opinions on this?
Antimony was added to type metal alloy to make it harder while keeping the
melting point low enough for casting machines (monotype and linotype) and
copper was added to foundry made type where temperature was not as much
concern. The point was to make the type last longer. If tin and antimony are
in wheel weights, then my guess is that they were made from type metal. Tin
and antimony content in type metal is very small. I don't think it should be
a concern in casting a keel. Clyde
David Jost wrote:
melting point low enough for casting machines (monotype and linotype) and
copper was added to foundry made type where temperature was not as much
concern. The point was to make the type last longer. If tin and antimony are
in wheel weights, then my guess is that they were made from type metal. Tin
and antimony content in type metal is very small. I don't think it should be
a concern in casting a keel. Clyde
David Jost wrote:
> Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see Peter
> Lenihan's web site.
> I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
> hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
> complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails through,
> wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
> I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
> (150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
> (60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
> is
> stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
> I
> do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
> something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
> handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
> Any opinions on this?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/6/_/3457/_/956678862/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see Peter
Lenihan's web site.
I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails through,
wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
(150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
(60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
is
stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
I
do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
Any opinions on this?
Lenihan's web site.
I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails through,
wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
(150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
(60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
is
stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
I
do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
Any opinions on this?
I think you are well covered, but like concrete,
you cant put too much reinforcing in.
Bronze nails? I'd better look back at the old postings.
The only keel Ive ever been involved in simply had long SS bolts
(specially made and very expensive back then, 1978) set
in steel plates set in the melt. It was for a 40 footer and poured
in a clay lined hole in the ground!
We also threw handfulls of 6 inch nails into
the melt. Some lift weights and metal punchings went in too.
Its still fine, 22 years on.
Wooden Boat recently had an article on a keel pour.
Hope the job goes well,
Jeff Gilbert
ps The Dutch builder (remains nameless) above decided
the keel was too heavy and applied his own bush
mathematics to the situation. The resultant keel was
a ton or so under spec. I felt too young to comment.
Of course the boat floated dangerously, sticking out of the
water like the proverbial appendages of dogs. We finished
up filling the (ferro yacht's) bilge with concrete made from
metal punchings. We carted the materials out in a 7ft pram
and mixed in buckets on the dangerously canting deck.
If you ever feel like trying this as a weekend activity,
lie down and wait for the urge to go away!
(Or have a bit of faith in your designer, his/her reputationin
rides on that keel & in my (painful!) experience its not
to be fiddled with by amateurs who "think it looks a bit hefty".
You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/6/_/3457/_/956678862/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
you cant put too much reinforcing in.
Bronze nails? I'd better look back at the old postings.
The only keel Ive ever been involved in simply had long SS bolts
(specially made and very expensive back then, 1978) set
in steel plates set in the melt. It was for a 40 footer and poured
in a clay lined hole in the ground!
We also threw handfulls of 6 inch nails into
the melt. Some lift weights and metal punchings went in too.
Its still fine, 22 years on.
Wooden Boat recently had an article on a keel pour.
Hope the job goes well,
Jeff Gilbert
ps The Dutch builder (remains nameless) above decided
the keel was too heavy and applied his own bush
mathematics to the situation. The resultant keel was
a ton or so under spec. I felt too young to comment.
Of course the boat floated dangerously, sticking out of the
water like the proverbial appendages of dogs. We finished
up filling the (ferro yacht's) bilge with concrete made from
metal punchings. We carted the materials out in a 7ft pram
and mixed in buckets on the dangerously canting deck.
If you ever feel like trying this as a weekend activity,
lie down and wait for the urge to go away!
(Or have a bit of faith in your designer, his/her reputationin
rides on that keel & in my (painful!) experience its not
to be fiddled with by amateurs who "think it looks a bit hefty".
>David Jost <djost@...>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>writes wrt lead hardness/keel construction...
>.....snipped .......
>I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
>(150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
>(60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
>is stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
> I do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
> something going sideways! I could always throw a couple of
>handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
>Any opinions on this?
You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/6/_/3457/_/956678862/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great idea on the dental source. Do you have to melt them?
Rennie
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Rennie
>From: "David Jost" <djost@...>________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Progress
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:03:04 -0000
>
>Ronnie,
> I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the
>bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I
>have
>found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
>that
>does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
>out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
>week.
>Taylor Rental has the burners at $16 per day.
> I have decided to do the keel vertically like Peter L did. That
>will save having to lift it. I think I have a plan to roll the mold
>around on skids and leave the keel in its little cradle until
>assembly.
>No keel bolts though, I think that is overkill. If the keel falls
>off, I will dump the masts and motor home.
>
>David Jost
> "With all this rain in Boston, my neighbors think I am building an
>Ark."
>
>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com
> My builder's key says, about the keel,Hi Sakari,
>
> "Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities
> for stiffness."
>
> Do you know whether the X-ray-protection lead contains these impurities?
>
>
It is my understanding that it does not. Any lead used in or for
x-ray shielding is pure lead. A simple test of purity of lead it to try
to scratch it with a fingernail. if you can make a mark, you can be
pretty sure it is near being pure lead. The cheapest way to stiffen it
would be to add wheel weights.
I hope this helps, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose.
David Jost wrote
"Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities
for stiffness."
Do you know whether the X-ray-protection lead contains these impurities?
Thank you,
Sakari Aaltonen
> I haveMy builder's key says, about the keel,
> found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
> that
> does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
> out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
> week.
"Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities
for stiffness."
Do you know whether the X-ray-protection lead contains these impurities?
Thank you,
Sakari Aaltonen
Ronnie,
I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the
bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I
have
found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
that
does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
week.
Taylor Rental has the burners at $16 per day.
I have decided to do the keel vertically like Peter L did. That
will save having to lift it. I think I have a plan to roll the mold
around on skids and leave the keel in its little cradle until
assembly.
No keel bolts though, I think that is overkill. If the keel falls
off, I will dump the masts and motor home.
David Jost
"With all this rain in Boston, my neighbors think I am building an
Ark."
I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the
bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I
have
found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
that
does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
week.
Taylor Rental has the burners at $16 per day.
I have decided to do the keel vertically like Peter L did. That
will save having to lift it. I think I have a plan to roll the mold
around on skids and leave the keel in its little cradle until
assembly.
No keel bolts though, I think that is overkill. If the keel falls
off, I will dump the masts and motor home.
David Jost
"With all this rain in Boston, my neighbors think I am building an
Ark."
Hi Rennie,
Let me give you a, well done, on your progress, and also invite you
to join the, Micro Owners Association. If you will, please drop me a
note with your name, boats name and type and I'll add you to the list.
when I say the Micro is the only boat that I know of that is bigger on
the inside than it is on the outside. ;-) With the navigator version, it
will be even more so.
Continued good luck on your building, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose.
Let me give you a, well done, on your progress, and also invite you
to join the, Micro Owners Association. If you will, please drop me a
note with your name, boats name and type and I'll add you to the list.
> This boat is voluminous!!!Now you are getting to the point that you will be able to understand,
when I say the Micro is the only boat that I know of that is bigger on
the inside than it is on the outside. ;-) With the navigator version, it
will be even more so.
Continued good luck on your building, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose.