Re: Blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy?
With Al there is a lot of starting and stoping to min distortion.
When starting the penitration is low and pinholes form eaisly. TIG
can help this problem but can destort more easly due to the heat it
produces. I have seen some old pros use a gas torch to spot touch the
welds to seal the pin holes.
Jon--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
When starting the penitration is low and pinholes form eaisly. TIG
can help this problem but can destort more easly due to the heat it
produces. I have seen some old pros use a gas torch to spot touch the
welds to seal the pin holes.
Jon--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> A friend welds aluminum all the time. He uses TIG. If
> I was going to weld a boat I'd use either TIG or MIG.
> I believe I would eschew coated rod as I think that's
> where most of the pinhole problems arrise. TIG and MIG
> means that you are going to be welding inside as you
> want to keep the containment gases around the weld
> site (to avoid pinholes.)
>
> I think I might even practice a hundred feet or so of
> good welding bead before I started on my boat. The
> life you save may be your own.
>
> I'd also make really damn sure that the welding rod or
> wire was the proper alloy to weld the proper alloy for
> your hull. Nothing like using the wrong alloy and
> having the welds turn into anodes or cathodes with the
> plate. I might even send samples off to a lab to make
> sure that you were delivered what you specified.
>
>
>
> Phil Smith
>
> --- Roger Derby <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>
> > I can't weld aluminum, so this is second hand info,
> > but the welders I know
> > gave me to understand that pinhole free welds were
> > tough.
A friend welds aluminum all the time. He uses TIG. If
I was going to weld a boat I'd use either TIG or MIG.
I believe I would eschew coated rod as I think that's
where most of the pinhole problems arrise. TIG and MIG
means that you are going to be welding inside as you
want to keep the containment gases around the weld
site (to avoid pinholes.)
I think I might even practice a hundred feet or so of
good welding bead before I started on my boat. The
life you save may be your own.
I'd also make really damn sure that the welding rod or
wire was the proper alloy to weld the proper alloy for
your hull. Nothing like using the wrong alloy and
having the welds turn into anodes or cathodes with the
plate. I might even send samples off to a lab to make
sure that you were delivered what you specified.
Phil Smith
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
I was going to weld a boat I'd use either TIG or MIG.
I believe I would eschew coated rod as I think that's
where most of the pinhole problems arrise. TIG and MIG
means that you are going to be welding inside as you
want to keep the containment gases around the weld
site (to avoid pinholes.)
I think I might even practice a hundred feet or so of
good welding bead before I started on my boat. The
life you save may be your own.
I'd also make really damn sure that the welding rod or
wire was the proper alloy to weld the proper alloy for
your hull. Nothing like using the wrong alloy and
having the welds turn into anodes or cathodes with the
plate. I might even send samples off to a lab to make
sure that you were delivered what you specified.
Phil Smith
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> I can't weld aluminum, so this is second hand info,
> but the welders I know
> gave me to understand that pinhole free welds were
> tough.
My cell phone still recieved messages for months after ending up in the
deep dark depths of the mighty St. Lawrence River. And it wasn't in a
baggy of any kind. Just "Kerr-Plunked" out of my shirt pocket while
tying up.
Bruce Hector
deep dark depths of the mighty St. Lawrence River. And it wasn't in a
baggy of any kind. Just "Kerr-Plunked" out of my shirt pocket while
tying up.
Bruce Hector
I had a friend that kept his 2nd cell phone and matches in a inflated zip lock bag when he was on his boat. His first cell phone sank when it went over board.
Lon
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Since we are really talkig about emergency use - it
would be a bit over the top for kayaks - could airbag
technology be of any use?
cheers
Andy Airey
--- Mark <marka@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
snip
? my idea about zip lock bags came
pounds each; the best pour-in
polyurethane that is highly impervious to water and
petroleum, doesn't dribble its
particles, adds significant structural strength, and
costs about $15 seems a pretty good value.
To inspect any chines, put 'em on the outside.
Mark
Bolger rules!!!
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would be a bit over the top for kayaks - could airbag
technology be of any use?
cheers
Andy Airey
--- Mark <marka@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
snip
? my idea about zip lock bags came
> when I was trying to brainstorm some way to getpositive
> floation in a kayak, where extreme measures toachieve
> low weight are worthwhile. And, foam is too heavy.I dunno. At 2 pounds / cubic foot floating roughly 60
pounds each; the best pour-in
polyurethane that is highly impervious to water and
petroleum, doesn't dribble its
particles, adds significant structural strength, and
costs about $15 seems a pretty good value.
To inspect any chines, put 'em on the outside.
Mark
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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snip
? my idea about zip lock bags came
polyurethane that is highly impervious to water and petroleum, doesn't dribble its
particles, adds significant structural strength, and costs about $15 seems a pretty good value.
To inspect any chines, put 'em on the outside.
Mark
? my idea about zip lock bags came
> when I was trying to brainstorm some way to get positiveI dunno. At 2 pounds / cubic foot floating roughly 60 pounds each; the best pour-in
> floation in a kayak, where extreme measures to achieve
> low weight are worthwhile. And, foam is too heavy.
polyurethane that is highly impervious to water and petroleum, doesn't dribble its
particles, adds significant structural strength, and costs about $15 seems a pretty good value.
To inspect any chines, put 'em on the outside.
Mark
In a message dated 6/9/05 4:48:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
stephensonhw@...writes:
U.S. DOT/USCG #COMDTPUBP16761.3B, sent to me 09/2001, states that states that no
portion of an air chamber used to meet floatation requirements can use a part
of the hull in its construction for just this reason.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stephensonhw@...writes:
> Possibly the reason why foam flotation is used rather than emptyMy "Summer 1993" edition of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders,"
> sealed chambers is that if the bottom is holed "in way of" (as they
> say) an empty buoyancy chamber, it will just fill with water. Having
> several sealed chambers would not always provide sufficient
> insurance -- remember what happened to the Titanic.
>
U.S. DOT/USCG #COMDTPUBP16761.3B, sent to me 09/2001, states that states that no
portion of an air chamber used to meet floatation requirements can use a part
of the hull in its construction for just this reason.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had several long discussions with Phil and Susanne
about aluminum for a big boat. We were working with an
80' theoretical boat, not something that could be dry
sailed or trailer sailed.
Phil doesn't like aluminum hulls because of the
problems with antifouling paints. Evidently the tin
antifouling paints are now off limits due to
environmental concerns. Copper antifouling paints
turns the paint and the hull into a giant battery if
there's the smallest scratch or flaw in the paint
under the antifoulong paint.
They cited some aluminum Canadian destroyers or other
flavor of warship that had visited Gloucester. They
evidently had problems with their antifouling paint.
So, they talked me out of aluminum. Then they talked
be out of steel due to problems with the insulation
and the interior volume making the boat too tall to
fit through the French canals. So I was reduced to
Plywood. I was worried about the strength but Phil
said, "Five inches of plywood is pretty strong."
Hard to argue with that.
Phil Smith
about aluminum for a big boat. We were working with an
80' theoretical boat, not something that could be dry
sailed or trailer sailed.
Phil doesn't like aluminum hulls because of the
problems with antifouling paints. Evidently the tin
antifouling paints are now off limits due to
environmental concerns. Copper antifouling paints
turns the paint and the hull into a giant battery if
there's the smallest scratch or flaw in the paint
under the antifoulong paint.
They cited some aluminum Canadian destroyers or other
flavor of warship that had visited Gloucester. They
evidently had problems with their antifouling paint.
So, they talked me out of aluminum. Then they talked
be out of steel due to problems with the insulation
and the interior volume making the boat too tall to
fit through the French canals. So I was reduced to
Plywood. I was worried about the strength but Phil
said, "Five inches of plywood is pretty strong."
Hard to argue with that.
Phil Smith
Inside a plywood buoyancy chamber they would not be subject
to sharp object risk or UV degradation.
Unless you hole the hull at the buoyancy (former) chamber :)
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to sharp object risk or UV degradation.
Unless you hole the hull at the buoyancy (former) chamber :)
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Although I
read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
I think one of the main reason we all build boats (on my sixth) is that no
one manufactures the type of hull we want. Most of the manufactured aluminum
boats, as in fiberglass, are mode for crazy people who want to go 70 mph.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
I think one of the main reason we all build boats (on my sixth) is that no
one manufactures the type of hull we want. Most of the manufactured aluminum
boats, as in fiberglass, are mode for crazy people who want to go 70 mph.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't wish to drag this discussion out forever, but I can at least
summarize everyone's comments - thanks to everyone who responded.
My requirements:
- be able to stay floating for 24 hours, preferably indefinately.
- removable so I can inspect the chine logs and sides
Some of the ideas discussed:
- Bags (ziplock, mylar, wine, etc)
- bottles (soda, milk)
- peanuts
- blue foam
- white foam
- expanding foam in bags
Some more more details:
- 1 sq ft of waster weighs 62 lbs
- 1 sq ft of Dow blue EPS weighs 1.8 to 2 lbs
- 1 sq ft of white EPS styrofoam weighs 1 lbs
Conclusion:
My 40hp honda OB weighs 205lbs. PCB calls for 7sq + of expanded foam
under the transom of a clam skiff which is 434 lbs buoyancy. Add to
that the 1" bottom, 2" shoe, the rest of the wood in the boat plus the
3 sq ft buoyancy compartment in the bow, it almost doesn't matter what
I put under the transom.
I think I'll go with the most reliable and easiest to fabricate:
builders foam blocks from the local store. I will cut out the
existing semi-airtight bulkhead, cut the foam into bricks and lay them
in the rectangular space. Then screw in some plywood panels to keep
them there. It won't fill all available space, but I should be
able to get close to 7 sq ft without too much chopping and fitting.
summarize everyone's comments - thanks to everyone who responded.
My requirements:
- be able to stay floating for 24 hours, preferably indefinately.
- removable so I can inspect the chine logs and sides
Some of the ideas discussed:
- Bags (ziplock, mylar, wine, etc)
- bottles (soda, milk)
- peanuts
- blue foam
- white foam
- expanding foam in bags
Some more more details:
- 1 sq ft of waster weighs 62 lbs
- 1 sq ft of Dow blue EPS weighs 1.8 to 2 lbs
- 1 sq ft of white EPS styrofoam weighs 1 lbs
Conclusion:
My 40hp honda OB weighs 205lbs. PCB calls for 7sq + of expanded foam
under the transom of a clam skiff which is 434 lbs buoyancy. Add to
that the 1" bottom, 2" shoe, the rest of the wood in the boat plus the
3 sq ft buoyancy compartment in the bow, it almost doesn't matter what
I put under the transom.
I think I'll go with the most reliable and easiest to fabricate:
builders foam blocks from the local store. I will cut out the
existing semi-airtight bulkhead, cut the foam into bricks and lay them
in the rectangular space. Then screw in some plywood panels to keep
them there. It won't fill all available space, but I should be
able to get close to 7 sq ft without too much chopping and fitting.
I'm planning on using the blue foam on my Chebacco. Many slabs glued
together into bricks with Velcro to hold it them in place in the top of the
aft-most storage lockers.
- it will fit thru the hatches (if held just right)
- removable for motor mount repair
- easy to calculate the added buoyancy.
The motor will be the most likely component to sink, so it seems reasonable
to add the buoyancy near it. Foam will work even if the hatches are open or
the cockpit floods into the designed-in ventilation.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
together into bricks with Velcro to hold it them in place in the top of the
aft-most storage lockers.
- it will fit thru the hatches (if held just right)
- removable for motor mount repair
- easy to calculate the added buoyancy.
The motor will be the most likely component to sink, so it seems reasonable
to add the buoyancy near it. Foam will work even if the hatches are open or
the cockpit floods into the designed-in ventilation.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
> Yep, every time we buy these things and leave them up, say after aIn my experience, the helium leaks out but the air doesn't.
> birthday party, they shrink to nothing in a few days!
> Bruce Hector
I suspect that what they fill it with is not pure helium.
Try blowing one up with just air, they stay full [longer]
I threw it away after a month.
Don't take me wrong, my idea about zip lock bags came
when I was trying to brainstorm some way to get positive
floation in a kayak, where extreme measures to achieve
low weight are worthwhile. And, foam is too heavy.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: "I
doubt that mylar balloons would leak, a test would be in order though."
Yep, every time we buy these things and leave them up, say after a
birthday party, they shrink to nothing in a few days! But perhaps
you'll blow them up before every sail?
Bruce Hector
doubt that mylar balloons would leak, a test would be in order though."
Yep, every time we buy these things and leave them up, say after a
birthday party, they shrink to nothing in a few days! But perhaps
you'll blow them up before every sail?
Bruce Hector
Others have been using the heavy duty plastic bladders from wine-in-a-
box for floatation. A good solution if your bouyancy needs to be
removable for access.
There has been prior message traffic on this site regarding this
topic ....try a search.
Nehalem Dave
box for floatation. A good solution if your bouyancy needs to be
removable for access.
There has been prior message traffic on this site regarding this
topic ....try a search.
Nehalem Dave
> I just went outside and did a test.Ziplock bags don't cut it, I see.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51017&item=5588612489&rd=1
On Ebay you can routinely buy 100 mylar baloons for $17 delivered,
which works out to 50+ CF of weight free cheap buoyancy. I doubt
that mylar balloons would leak, a test would be in order though.
I just went outside and did a test.
Materials
- 1 Gal ziplock bag with the little white slider.
- 5 gal bucket with about
- 1/4" thick plywood disk 1/2" smaller than the inner diameter of the
bucket
- cinder block
- 6" spacer
Experiment 1:
- inflate the bag
- hold it under 6" water
Result: no leaks that you can see
Experiment 2:
- inflate the bag
- place it in bucket
- place wooden disk on top
- place 6" spacer on top of disk
- place cinder block on top
Result: a little stream of bubbles from the corner of the bag where it
is poking through the crack between the bucket wall and the disk.
The corner isn't even pinched, it is just sticking up.
Experiment 3:
Repositioned the bag so that the other corner is sticking up (the one
without the little white slider. Same result
Experiment 4:
Attempted to repositioned the bag so that the no corner is sticking
up. Couldn't do it. One corner always finds the highest spot.
Conclusion.
- I ain't goint to try ziplock bags because the corners are too
sensitive to being deflected or pinched.
So far, I'm leaning toward the expandable foam in three or four
removable chuncks using plastic bags. I've recieved fragile or bulky
objects shipped this way in boxes.
Materials
- 1 Gal ziplock bag with the little white slider.
- 5 gal bucket with about
- 1/4" thick plywood disk 1/2" smaller than the inner diameter of the
bucket
- cinder block
- 6" spacer
Experiment 1:
- inflate the bag
- hold it under 6" water
Result: no leaks that you can see
Experiment 2:
- inflate the bag
- place it in bucket
- place wooden disk on top
- place 6" spacer on top of disk
- place cinder block on top
Result: a little stream of bubbles from the corner of the bag where it
is poking through the crack between the bucket wall and the disk.
The corner isn't even pinched, it is just sticking up.
Experiment 3:
Repositioned the bag so that the other corner is sticking up (the one
without the little white slider. Same result
Experiment 4:
Attempted to repositioned the bag so that the no corner is sticking
up. Couldn't do it. One corner always finds the highest spot.
Conclusion.
- I ain't goint to try ziplock bags because the corners are too
sensitive to being deflected or pinched.
So far, I'm leaning toward the expandable foam in three or four
removable chuncks using plastic bags. I've recieved fragile or bulky
objects shipped this way in boxes.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > OTOH, I think the notion of using zip-lock sandwich baggies as
> > flotation is a pretty eccentric notion.
> > Bill in MN
>
> Eccentric huh? <g>
>
> I have taken a zip lock bag in my hand and forced it underwater
> in the lake and it shows no inclination of popping open. If you
> inflate them only 80%, they would nestle together with very little
> air void. [unlike styrofoam peanuts, or empty soda bottles.]
> Inside a plywood buoyancy chamber they would not be subject
> to sharp object risk or UV degradation.
>
> And, they weigh next to nothing and the price is right.
Howard Stephenson wrote:
building is half the fun and building small boats will garner experience
for building a bigger one. 4 small boats instead of one because to get
marine aluminum where I live requires shipping it about 400 miles. 75
lbs. costs half as much as 300 lbs. There's a minimum shipping charge
and freight cost doesn't increase in direct proportion to weight.
Thanks for the feedback.
> Nothing wrong with aluminum. Our guru certanly approves. Although IVery true where I live, but none of them are what I want ;>). Besides,
> read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
> boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
building is half the fun and building small boats will garner experience
for building a bigger one. 4 small boats instead of one because to get
marine aluminum where I live requires shipping it about 400 miles. 75
lbs. costs half as much as 300 lbs. There's a minimum shipping charge
and freight cost doesn't increase in direct proportion to weight.
Thanks for the feedback.
>
>
> Possibly the reason why foam flotation is used rather than empty
> sealed chambers is that if the bottom is holed "in way of" (as they
> say) an empty buoyancy chamber, it will just fill with water. Having
> several sealed chambers would not always provide sufficient
> insurance -- remember what happened to the Titanic.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspiredfe@m...> wrote:
> > I'm building 4 small boats, give or take, soon to get my feet wet,
> so to
> > speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing,
> welding is
> > one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will
> be
> > lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats
> will
> > be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
> > contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
> > weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
> > flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in
> the
> > form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus
> intermittent,
> > not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
> > opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is
> enough
> > or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
> > intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
> > compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to
> make
> > the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
> > Thanks in advance for any input.
> >
> >
> > doug6949 wrote:
> >
> > > Two liter soda bottles should work just fine. They will each
> displace
> > > about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are
> very
> > > difficult to rupture.
> > >
> > > Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they
> would
> > > weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930,
> > > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
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> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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>
Good point.
Howard Stephenson wrote:
Howard Stephenson wrote:
> Nothing wrong with aluminum. Our guru certanly approves. Although I
> read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
> boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
>
> Possibly the reason why foam flotation is used rather than empty
> sealed chambers is that if the bottom is holed "in way of" (as they
> say) an empty buoyancy chamber, it will just fill with water. Having
> several sealed chambers would not always provide sufficient
> insurance -- remember what happened to the Titanic.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspiredfe@m...> wrote:
> > I'm building 4 small boats, give or take, soon to get my feet wet,
> so to
> > speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing,
> welding is
> > one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will
> be
> > lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats
> will
> > be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
> > contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
> > weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
> > flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in
> the
> > form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus
> intermittent,
> > not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
> > opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is
> enough
> > or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
> > intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
> > compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to
> make
> > the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
> > Thanks in advance for any input.
> >
> >
> > doug6949 wrote:
> >
> > > Two liter soda bottles should work just fine. They will each
> displace
> > > about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are
> very
> > > difficult to rupture.
> > >
> > > Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they
> would
> > > weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930,
> > > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> subject=Unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> it might be wise to do a testGood to be cautious.
> how long they remain inflated. I'm thinking of a child's balloon whichLatex is notoriously permeable, and baloons are under pressure.
> gradually looses it's air over time.
Zip locks would have equal pressure inside versus outside.
> (Even the relatively impermeable mylarHelium molecules are tiny compared to nitrogen molecules, and
> balloons flatten over time!)
the deflation in mylar is due to the teeny helium molecules diffusing
out through tiny holes in the Mylar, I believe.
I bet that with the right scrounging you might find a box of Mylar
ballons for cheap which I bet would be better choice than Ziplock bags.
Before you commit to ziplock flotation, it might be wise to do a test to see
how long they remain inflated. I'm thinking of a child's balloon which
gradually looses it's air over time. (Even the relatively impermeable mylar
balloons flatten over time!) It would be a bummer to find out 6 months later
that your flotation was flat when you really needed it.
how long they remain inflated. I'm thinking of a child's balloon which
gradually looses it's air over time. (Even the relatively impermeable mylar
balloons flatten over time!) It would be a bummer to find out 6 months later
that your flotation was flat when you really needed it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy?
> > OTOH, I think the notion of using zip-lock sandwich baggies as
> > flotation is a pretty eccentric notion.
> > Bill in MN
>
> Eccentric huh? <g>
>
> I have taken a zip lock bag in my hand and forced it underwater
> in the lake and it shows no inclination of popping open. If you
> inflate them only 80%, they would nestle together with very little
> air void. [unlike styrofoam peanuts, or empty soda bottles.]
> Inside a plywood buoyancy chamber they would not be subject
> to sharp object risk or UV degradation.
>
> And, they weigh next to nothing and the price is right.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> OTOH, I think the notion of using zip-lock sandwich baggies asEccentric huh? <g>
> flotation is a pretty eccentric notion.
> Bill in MN
I have taken a zip lock bag in my hand and forced it underwater
in the lake and it shows no inclination of popping open. If you
inflate them only 80%, they would nestle together with very little
air void. [unlike styrofoam peanuts, or empty soda bottles.]
Inside a plywood buoyancy chamber they would not be subject
to sharp object risk or UV degradation.
And, they weigh next to nothing and the price is right.
I can't weld aluminum, so this is second hand info, but the welders I know
gave me to understand that pinhole free welds were tough. Aircraft fuel
tanks are finished with a sloshing compound, so, if your boat is small
enough to rotate -- I don't know about cost. Check out
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/main.php
I wouldn't expect flotation chambers which weren't air tight to be much
use??
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
gave me to understand that pinhole free welds were tough. Aircraft fuel
tanks are finished with a sloshing compound, so, if your boat is small
enough to rotate -- I don't know about cost. Check out
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/main.php
I wouldn't expect flotation chambers which weren't air tight to be much
use??
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wesley Cox" <inspiredfe@...>
> I'm building 4 small boats, give or take, soon to get my feet wet, so to
> speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing, welding is
> one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will be
> lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats will
> be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
> contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
> weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
> flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in the
> form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus intermittent,
> not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
> opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is enough
> or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
> intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
> compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to make
> the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
Nothing wrong with aluminum. Our guru certanly approves. Although I
read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
Possibly the reason why foam flotation is used rather than empty
sealed chambers is that if the bottom is holed "in way of" (as they
say) an empty buoyancy chamber, it will just fill with water. Having
several sealed chambers would not always provide sufficient
insurance -- remember what happened to the Titanic.
Howard
read somewhere that the average person could buy a small aluminum
boat for the price he would pay for the sheet aluminum to build it.
Possibly the reason why foam flotation is used rather than empty
sealed chambers is that if the bottom is holed "in way of" (as they
say) an empty buoyancy chamber, it will just fill with water. Having
several sealed chambers would not always provide sufficient
insurance -- remember what happened to the Titanic.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspiredfe@m...> wrote:
> I'm building 4 small boats, give or take, soon to get my feet wet,
so to
> speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing,
welding is
> one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will
be
> lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats
will
> be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
> contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
> weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
> flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in
the
> form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus
intermittent,
> not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
> opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is
enough
> or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
> intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
> compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to
make
> the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
> Thanks in advance for any input.
>
>
> doug6949 wrote:
>
> > Two liter soda bottles should work just fine. They will each
displace
> > about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are
very
> > difficult to rupture.
> >
> > Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they
would
> > weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930,
> > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
If you've got an enclosed space, semi-inflated beach balls might be
cheapest. Other ideas: army surplus weather baloons; mylar boxed wine
liners (fun to acquire, great and leakproof as canteens too); blue foam
dock flotation blocks (found one after recent Delaware river flooding:
durable but easy to shape with hand saw). Doing things on the cheap
takes time and if you have more money than time then just buy the right
size flotation bags at www.aps.com. If being cheap is an end unto
itself, however....
cheapest. Other ideas: army surplus weather baloons; mylar boxed wine
liners (fun to acquire, great and leakproof as canteens too); blue foam
dock flotation blocks (found one after recent Delaware river flooding:
durable but easy to shape with hand saw). Doing things on the cheap
takes time and if you have more money than time then just buy the right
size flotation bags at www.aps.com. If being cheap is an end unto
itself, however....
I'm building 4 small boats, give or take, soon to get my feet wet, so to
speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing, welding is
one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will be
lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats will
be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in the
form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus intermittent,
not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is enough
or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to make
the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
Thanks in advance for any input.
doug6949 wrote:
speak. They will be aluminum. Please no flaming or cursing, welding is
one of my fields of expertise and my dream boat, eventually, will be
lapstrake or strip wood, finely finished. For now, aluminum boats will
be relatively inexpensive, quick to build and very durable. I'm
contemplating using just air chambers for flotation, to avoid the
weight, added complexity and expense of foam (not to mention
flammability). The concept does add its own complexity, though, in the
form of considerable extra weld length, air tight, versus intermittent,
not air tight welds around the chambers. I would appreciate any
opinions, especially based on experience, as to how air tight is enough
or, perhaps, how much isn't enough. Empty plastic containers are
intriguing, but I'm not sure I trust them to remain sealed in a
compartment that is inaccessbile and I'm not necessarily willing to make
the compartment interiors readily accessible, for various reasons.
Thanks in advance for any input.
doug6949 wrote:
> Two liter soda bottles should work just fine. They will each displace
> about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are very
> difficult to rupture.
>
> Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they would
> weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
Two liter soda bottles should work just fine. They will each displace
about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are very
difficult to rupture.
Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they would
weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
Doug
about 4.5 pounds of water. You can pack then tight and they are very
difficult to rupture.
Another alternative would be gallon milk jugs. Either way, they would
weigh less than the foam and the price is right (free).
Doug
In a message dated 6/8/05 11:56:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
bruce@...writes:
I had a free supply; and 2) I could use it structurally to stiffen decks which
could then be made of thin, light and cheap plywood. It sort of worked, but I
wouldn't do it again:
1) the boat is a powerboat, so I had to encase the foam in glass and epoxy.
Any money "saved" by using the "free" material was eaten up there. This expense
could be avoided if you aren't worried about gasoline exposure, but if you
have to pay for the foam, it might be a wash.
2) the density did make a difference - between the density itself and the
difficulties of getting a good "packing ratio", the blue foam took up at least
50% (probably 75%) more volume than the very marginal original factory flotation
to meet the USCG regs. Despite what I thought was a cunning scheme, this did
make me compromise on storage spaces. The labor involved in shaping and gluing
the blocks was not inconsiderable. The boat in question is round-bilged,
compound curved, with not-quite-squarely-oriented and regularly spaced ribs.
Fitting the blocks to fit a Bolgeresque "square boat," would pose fewer
difficulties, which would improve the packing ratio.
As far as working the foam goes, I found it best cut with a crosscut
hand saw. The stuff I used was contact cemented together along with 1/4" luann,
so I initially tried to do the coarse cutting with a Skilsaw. This works o.k.
until the blade gets hot (the stuff is sold as insulation for a reason!),
then the foam starts to melt and stick to the blade and the results get messier
and messier. Perhaps a "hot-wire" cutter like those that some model airplane
builders use would be a better choice, but it wouldn't have worked for me
because of the plywood backing.
I found a Makita 8-hole, 5" orbital sander with 60 or 80 grit paper to
do a nice job of removing material and giving a smooth finish. (This is
something that neither a Skilsaw nor a hand saw provides.) The dust collection bag
needs emptying frequently.
OTOH, I think the notion of using zip-lock sandwich baggies as
flotation is a pretty eccentric notion.
If I install flotation in my current project, I think I will use
poured-in polyurethane foam. If it is necessary to have the foam removable, I think
that one could use temporary fillets at frames and stringers as needed,
temporary bulkheads if necessary and foam the stuff in a garbage bag. High packing
ratio, low labor time, and low density, all in one package!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bruce@...writes:
> I have used the blue foam it is great stuff, but tooI agree that the stuff is too heavy. I used it in my last project because a)
> expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
I had a free supply; and 2) I could use it structurally to stiffen decks which
could then be made of thin, light and cheap plywood. It sort of worked, but I
wouldn't do it again:
1) the boat is a powerboat, so I had to encase the foam in glass and epoxy.
Any money "saved" by using the "free" material was eaten up there. This expense
could be avoided if you aren't worried about gasoline exposure, but if you
have to pay for the foam, it might be a wash.
2) the density did make a difference - between the density itself and the
difficulties of getting a good "packing ratio", the blue foam took up at least
50% (probably 75%) more volume than the very marginal original factory flotation
to meet the USCG regs. Despite what I thought was a cunning scheme, this did
make me compromise on storage spaces. The labor involved in shaping and gluing
the blocks was not inconsiderable. The boat in question is round-bilged,
compound curved, with not-quite-squarely-oriented and regularly spaced ribs.
Fitting the blocks to fit a Bolgeresque "square boat," would pose fewer
difficulties, which would improve the packing ratio.
As far as working the foam goes, I found it best cut with a crosscut
hand saw. The stuff I used was contact cemented together along with 1/4" luann,
so I initially tried to do the coarse cutting with a Skilsaw. This works o.k.
until the blade gets hot (the stuff is sold as insulation for a reason!),
then the foam starts to melt and stick to the blade and the results get messier
and messier. Perhaps a "hot-wire" cutter like those that some model airplane
builders use would be a better choice, but it wouldn't have worked for me
because of the plywood backing.
I found a Makita 8-hole, 5" orbital sander with 60 or 80 grit paper to
do a nice job of removing material and giving a smooth finish. (This is
something that neither a Skilsaw nor a hand saw provides.) The dust collection bag
needs emptying frequently.
OTOH, I think the notion of using zip-lock sandwich baggies as
flotation is a pretty eccentric notion.
If I install flotation in my current project, I think I will use
poured-in polyurethane foam. If it is necessary to have the foam removable, I think
that one could use temporary fillets at frames and stringers as needed,
temporary bulkheads if necessary and foam the stuff in a garbage bag. High packing
ratio, low labor time, and low density, all in one package!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Polyethelene, I don't know that the spelling is correct, has tiny pin
holes which is why sandwiches in poly on ice in cooler get wet. I built
a "Brick " with 2", blue foam which was not a good idea because i have
more money in layers of glass and epoxy to make it ridgid than I care to
think about. It does not break up easily like the white styrofoam. Clyde
Frank San Miguel wrote:
holes which is why sandwiches in poly on ice in cooler get wet. I built
a "Brick " with 2", blue foam which was not a good idea because i have
more money in layers of glass and epoxy to make it ridgid than I care to
think about. It does not break up easily like the white styrofoam. Clyde
Frank San Miguel wrote:
> kind of like boat-buoyancy-bubble-wrap . I think you have the makings
> of a new product. :-)
>
> I would worry about the air getting squeezed out after swamping. I'd
> like my boat to stay afloat for at least 24 hours after swamping,
> perhaps longer. As it is, I doubt my existing air compartments would
> last 1 hour.
>
> Frank
Why not use the standard white (expanded bead) styrofoam? Cheap and effective and easy to cut with an old knife heated up.
Here is Michigan it can be found at most big box retailers as well as some independants.
BTW - Nice looking boat!
Jon Cassino
This email has been scanned by Norton Anti-Virus prior to being sent to you.
Here is Michigan it can be found at most big box retailers as well as some independants.
BTW - Nice looking boat!
Jon Cassino
This email has been scanned by Norton Anti-Virus prior to being sent to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank San Miguel
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: [bolger] Blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy?
Has anyone used 1.5" blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy? I want to
fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam skiff with
foam blocks. I don't like the idea of using the permanent expanding
foam because I want to be able to inspect all chine logs each year.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't try taking your boat from sea level to Denver. Actually, I
doubt many zip lock closures will remain intact if they are
submerged, which is what they would be if they were in a non-
watertight locker. How about an inflatable air mattress?
doubt many zip lock closures will remain intact if they are
submerged, which is what they would be if they were in a non-
watertight locker. How about an inflatable air mattress?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> kind of like boat-buoyancy-bubble-wrap . I think you have the
makings
> of a new product. :-)
>
> I would worry about the air getting squeezed out after swamping.
I'd
> like my boat to stay afloat for at least 24 hours after swamping,
> perhaps longer. As it is, I doubt my existing air compartments
would
> last 1 hour.
>
> Frank
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > On 6/8/05, Frank San Miguel <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> > > Has anyone used 1.5" blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy? I
want to
> > > fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam
skiff with
> > > foam blocks.
> >
> > I have used the blue foam it is great stuff, but too
> > expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
> >
> > I was thinking that a sealed buoyancy compartment
> > could be filled up with inflated zip-lock sandwich bags
> > which would be cheap, effective nearly weightless, and
> > unlikely to pop all at once.
> >
> > This would have the advantage over the soda bottle
> > because Ziplock bags kept 80% full would 'nestle' tightly
> > with very little interstitial space.
This might work for you. I have seen some installations of bouyancy bags by taking a large clear bag and filling it with the foam packing peanuts and then putting the bag full of peanuts into the compartment before closing it off. That way you have a mass of foam that will fit any shape and the bag keeps the foam peanuts from making a mess when you want to remove it later.
Dave Whittington
Dave Whittington
> >
> > I have used the blue foam it is great stuff, but too
> > expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
> >
> > I was thinking that a sealed buoyancy compartment
> > could be filled up with inflated zip-lock sandwich bags
> > which would be cheap, effective nearly weightless, and
> > unlikely to pop all at once.
> >
kind of like boat-buoyancy-bubble-wrap . I think you have the makings
of a new product. :-)
I would worry about the air getting squeezed out after swamping. I'd
like my boat to stay afloat for at least 24 hours after swamping,
perhaps longer. As it is, I doubt my existing air compartments would
last 1 hour.
Frank
of a new product. :-)
I would worry about the air getting squeezed out after swamping. I'd
like my boat to stay afloat for at least 24 hours after swamping,
perhaps longer. As it is, I doubt my existing air compartments would
last 1 hour.
Frank
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> On 6/8/05, Frank San Miguel <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> > Has anyone used 1.5" blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy? I want to
> > fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam skiff with
> > foam blocks.
>
> I have used the blue foam it is great stuff, but too
> expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
>
> I was thinking that a sealed buoyancy compartment
> could be filled up with inflated zip-lock sandwich bags
> which would be cheap, effective nearly weightless, and
> unlikely to pop all at once.
>
> This would have the advantage over the soda bottle
> because Ziplock bags kept 80% full would 'nestle' tightly
> with very little interstitial space.
On 6/8/05, Frank San Miguel <sanmi@...> wrote:
expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
I was thinking that a sealed buoyancy compartment
could be filled up with inflated zip-lock sandwich bags
which would be cheap, effective nearly weightless, and
unlikely to pop all at once.
This would have the advantage over the soda bottle
because Ziplock bags kept 80% full would 'nestle' tightly
with very little interstitial space.
> Has anyone used 1.5" blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy? I want toI have used the blue foam it is great stuff, but too
> fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam skiff with
> foam blocks.
expensive and too heavy for some uses IMO.
I was thinking that a sealed buoyancy compartment
could be filled up with inflated zip-lock sandwich bags
which would be cheap, effective nearly weightless, and
unlikely to pop all at once.
This would have the advantage over the soda bottle
because Ziplock bags kept 80% full would 'nestle' tightly
with very little interstitial space.
Has anyone used 1.5" blue EPS builder's foam for buoyancy? I want to
fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam skiff with
foam blocks. I don't like the idea of using the permanent expanding
foam because I want to be able to inspect all chine logs each year.
fill some mostly airtight buoyancy compartments on my clam skiff with
foam blocks. I don't like the idea of using the permanent expanding
foam because I want to be able to inspect all chine logs each year.