Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
I have owned old woodenboats and old airplanes.The most expensive
recreation I have tried as far as money spent with no hope of getting
any of it back was dog mushing.
HJ
Philip Smith wrote:
recreation I have tried as far as money spent with no hope of getting
any of it back was dog mushing.
HJ
Philip Smith wrote:
>>then this past Christmas, my wife went and gave me
>>flying lessons...
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>
>
>Now you are going to learn how to spend real money.
>
>Phil Smith
>
>
>
In keeping with the subject line for this thread, have you considered a yoke
to allow the two motorcycles to pull the trailer?
Roger (still wondering if I can strap my Sunfish to the belly of my Cessna)
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
to allow the two motorcycles to pull the trailer?
Roger (still wondering if I can strap my Sunfish to the belly of my Cessna)
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...>
> Hah! I ride a motorcycle every day, and did when my wife met me. She's
> toured tens of thousands of miles on the back of my bike, recently got her
> own, and having to maintain two bikes is yet another of the major
> distractions from finishing my Micro. One of our big dilemmas once I
> finish
> the boat is going to be whether to do a motorcycle or boat trip for summer
> vacation.
>
> No, I'm not a tattooed, leather-clad thug with a thunderous bike - just
> like
> with boaters, there are many varieties of riders and bikes. Prior to
> launching Messing About in Boats, Bob Hicks used to publish a similar
> magazine devoted to Enduro riding, and I saw a feature someplace recently
> where he was still riding, or perhaps riding again, on a bike nearly
> identical to mine, commemorating 20 or 30 years since he and some friends
> established a now famous Northeastern event. I was pleased to discover I'm
> not the only one who suffers from both these expensive and time consuming
> but wonderful afflictions.
>
> then this past Christmas, my wife went and gave me flying lessons...
>
> Paul
>Now you are going to learn how to spend real money.
> then this past Christmas, my wife went and gave me
> flying lessons...
>
> Paul
Phil Smith
Hah! I ride a motorcycle every day, and did when my wife met me. She's
toured tens of thousands of miles on the back of my bike, recently got her
own, and having to maintain two bikes is yet another of the major
distractions from finishing my Micro. One of our big dilemmas once I finish
the boat is going to be whether to do a motorcycle or boat trip for summer
vacation.
No, I'm not a tattooed, leather-clad thug with a thunderous bike - just like
with boaters, there are many varieties of riders and bikes. Prior to
launching Messing About in Boats, Bob Hicks used to publish a similar
magazine devoted to Enduro riding, and I saw a feature someplace recently
where he was still riding, or perhaps riding again, on a bike nearly
identical to mine, commemorating 20 or 30 years since he and some friends
established a now famous Northeastern event. I was pleased to discover I'm
not the only one who suffers from both these expensive and time consuming
but wonderful afflictions.
then this past Christmas, my wife went and gave me flying lessons...
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
ANDREW AIREY
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:08 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
Probably better than motorcycling as a 'lesser evil'
Cheers
Andy Airey
toured tens of thousands of miles on the back of my bike, recently got her
own, and having to maintain two bikes is yet another of the major
distractions from finishing my Micro. One of our big dilemmas once I finish
the boat is going to be whether to do a motorcycle or boat trip for summer
vacation.
No, I'm not a tattooed, leather-clad thug with a thunderous bike - just like
with boaters, there are many varieties of riders and bikes. Prior to
launching Messing About in Boats, Bob Hicks used to publish a similar
magazine devoted to Enduro riding, and I saw a feature someplace recently
where he was still riding, or perhaps riding again, on a bike nearly
identical to mine, commemorating 20 or 30 years since he and some friends
established a now famous Northeastern event. I was pleased to discover I'm
not the only one who suffers from both these expensive and time consuming
but wonderful afflictions.
then this past Christmas, my wife went and gave me flying lessons...
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
ANDREW AIREY
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:08 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
Probably better than motorcycling as a 'lesser evil'
Cheers
Andy Airey
Probably better than motorcycling as a 'lesser evil'
Cheers
Andy Airey
--- Richard Spelling <richard@...>
wrote:
---------------------------------
I finaly got back with mine... She said I was a "known
evil"
Hmmm. Boatbuilding or wife...
Well, you have to have priorities...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre"
<paul@w...> wrote:
final line
Behalf Of
posts
01930, Fax:
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
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Cheers
Andy Airey
--- Richard Spelling <richard@...>
wrote:
---------------------------------
I finaly got back with mine... She said I was a "known
evil"
Hmmm. Boatbuilding or wife...
Well, you have to have priorities...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre"
<paul@w...> wrote:
> funny you should say that - I had written, and thenedited off, a
final line
> to that message:messy shop have
>
> do you guys do marriage counseling?
>
> ;-)
>
> it's not that bad... but my boatbuilding habits and
> definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Behalf Of
> Bruce Hallmanflogging dead horses
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:40 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
>
>
> > ...the Micro was a large factor in...
> >
> > ...and that's only the car...
> >
> >
> > Paul Lefebvre
>
> How's your marriage? <grin>
>
> [that sarcastic question might be in bad form,
> if so, sorry,
> been there done that <g>]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
> Yahoo! Groups LinksBolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Terms of Service.
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photoshttp://uk.photos.yahoo.com
I finaly got back with mine... She said I was a "known evil"
Hmmm. Boatbuilding or wife...
Well, you have to have priorities...
Hmmm. Boatbuilding or wife...
Well, you have to have priorities...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> funny you should say that - I had written, and then edited off, a
final line
> to that message:
>
> do you guys do marriage counseling?
>
> ;-)
>
> it's not that bad... but my boatbuilding habits and messy shop have
> definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of
> Bruce Hallman
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:40 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
>
>
> > ...the Micro was a large factor in...
> >
> > ...and that's only the car...
> >
> >
> > Paul Lefebvre
>
> How's your marriage? <grin>
>
> [that sarcastic question might be in bad form,
> if so, sorry,
> been there done that <g>]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
I've towed my Chebacco thousands of miles with my 1998 Tacoma, 2.7L
5sp manual, 4x4.
Just weighted it sunday... trailer and all weigh within a few pounds
of 3500lb...
5sp manual, 4x4.
Just weighted it sunday... trailer and all weigh within a few pounds
of 3500lb...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> well for better or for worse, I bought my truck last night. 2000
Toyota
> Tacoma 'Pre-runner' (high clearance, bigger tires) 2WD, 2.7L 4cyl
motor,
> 4spd automatic with electronic locking differential and overdrive.
I'm
> hoping it'll be a good vehicle both for towing the boat, and all
around
> utility and economy. Time will tell! At least now I can get back to
> concentrating on finishing my Micro, now that I have a hauler and
something
> to go trailer shopping with.
>
> Some of the key attributes of this vehicle came directly from
suggestions I
> got here (auto tranny, locking differential, and from the other
side of the
> pond and also a colleague who owns one, that the 4cyl. motor would
be up to
> towing). Everything's a compromise, but I'm sure I did better than
I would
> have without your input - so thanks again!
>
> Paul Lefebvre
You should be ok with Toyotas.I had a HiLux(definitely
LowLux in my case)with,I think,a 2 litre petrol
engine.
Cost me,as a non-runner,about £70 + another £300 to
put it on the road(This was about 20 years ago)It
would carry about a ton(legally) of the National Coal
Board ironmongery I used to recondition and went all
over the country on camping trips.It would carry more
than the equivalent Ford P100,and more economically,
but wasn't quite so fast.I don't think that we used it
for towing much - didn't have a trailer just then -
but would have had no qualms about doing so.My current
vehicle,a Bedford Midi(2litre Isuzu diesel) has no
trouble in towing my Lysander17 at 50mph and would go
quite a bit faster if I was prepared to
Cheers
Andy Airey
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
---------------------------------
Those are good trucks. My buddy has one just like it
that's got in excess of
200,000 miles and is still going strong. My next truck
will likely be the
same thing.
LowLux in my case)with,I think,a 2 litre petrol
engine.
Cost me,as a non-runner,about £70 + another £300 to
put it on the road(This was about 20 years ago)It
would carry about a ton(legally) of the National Coal
Board ironmongery I used to recondition and went all
over the country on camping trips.It would carry more
than the equivalent Ford P100,and more economically,
but wasn't quite so fast.I don't think that we used it
for towing much - didn't have a trailer just then -
but would have had no qualms about doing so.My current
vehicle,a Bedford Midi(2litre Isuzu diesel) has no
trouble in towing my Lysander17 at 50mph and would go
quite a bit faster if I was prepared to
Cheers
Andy Airey
--- John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
---------------------------------
Those are good trucks. My buddy has one just like it
that's got in excess of
200,000 miles and is still going strong. My next truck
will likely be the
same thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
> well for better or for worse, I bought my truck last
night. 2000 Toyota
> Tacoma 'Pre-runner' (high clearance, bigger tires)
2WD, 2.7L 4cyl motor,
> 4spd automatic with electronic locking differential
and overdrive. I'm
> hoping it'll be a good vehicle both for towing the
boat, and all around
> utility and economy. Time will tell! At least now I
can get back to
> concentrating on finishing my Micro, now that I have
a hauler and
something
> to go trailer shopping with.
>
> Some of the key attributes of this vehicle came
directly from suggestions
I
> got here (auto tranny, locking differential, and
from the other side of
the
> pond and also a colleague who owns one, that the
4cyl. motor would be up
to
> towing). Everything's a compromise, but I'm sure I
did better than I would
> have without your input - so thanks again!
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photoshttp://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Hey,
I don't understand the problem. My wife tells me that sawdust is an
aphrodisiac. Of course she also says that epoxy is a swell cologne,
and that I look just as good today as I did when she decided to marry
me 30 years ago. You guys are making me wonder if she's being 100%
sincere here. Aw, the heck with it... I'll continue to believe her
without question on all counts.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Here's to the ladies,
They need no praise...
They speak for themselves"
> > definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...************
>
> Sawdust in the bedsheets?
Hey,
I don't understand the problem. My wife tells me that sawdust is an
aphrodisiac. Of course she also says that epoxy is a swell cologne,
and that I look just as good today as I did when she decided to marry
me 30 years ago. You guys are making me wonder if she's being 100%
sincere here. Aw, the heck with it... I'll continue to believe her
without question on all counts.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Here's to the ladies,
They need no praise...
They speak for themselves"
> if I built a Micro, my Mercury Villager wouldMy Villager has a 4000lb tow limit.
> be able to haul it around.
On the marriage issues, I can't remember overhearing any chatter among
women to the tune of "I wouldn't kick him out of bed for being a
boatbuilder." They must talk like that when men aren't around.
Peter
> definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...Sawdust in the bedsheets?
funny you should say that - I had written, and then edited off, a final line
to that message:
do you guys do marriage counseling?
;-)
it's not that bad... but my boatbuilding habits and messy shop have
definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:40 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
[that sarcastic question might be in bad form,
if so, sorry,
been there done that <g>]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
to that message:
do you guys do marriage counseling?
;-)
it's not that bad... but my boatbuilding habits and messy shop have
definitely been an 'issue' from time to time...
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:40 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
> ...the Micro was a large factor in...How's your marriage? <grin>
>
> ...and that's only the car...
>
>
> Paul Lefebvre
[that sarcastic question might be in bad form,
if so, sorry,
been there done that <g>]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Those are good trucks. My buddy has one just like it that's got in excess of
200,000 miles and is still going strong. My next truck will likely be the
same thing.
200,000 miles and is still going strong. My next truck will likely be the
same thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
> well for better or for worse, I bought my truck last night. 2000 Toyota
> Tacoma 'Pre-runner' (high clearance, bigger tires) 2WD, 2.7L 4cyl motor,
> 4spd automatic with electronic locking differential and overdrive. I'm
> hoping it'll be a good vehicle both for towing the boat, and all around
> utility and economy. Time will tell! At least now I can get back to
> concentrating on finishing my Micro, now that I have a hauler and
something
> to go trailer shopping with.
>
> Some of the key attributes of this vehicle came directly from suggestions
I
> got here (auto tranny, locking differential, and from the other side of
the
> pond and also a colleague who owns one, that the 4cyl. motor would be up
to
> towing). Everything's a compromise, but I'm sure I did better than I would
> have without your input - so thanks again!
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ...the Micro was a large factor in...How's your marriage? <grin>
>
> ...and that's only the car...
>
>
> Paul Lefebvre
[that sarcastic question might be in bad form,
if so, sorry,
been there done that <g>]
It's kind of funny how this tow vehicle issue has now come full circle for
me on this board. Micro brought me here, but my earliest posts were about
needing to be convinced that if I built a Micro, my Mercury Villager would
be able to haul it around. Now that I've almost got a Micro, the Villager
has died and the Micro was a large factor in choosing its replacement.
and that's only the car...
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
The boat building books don't prepare us for the
reality that: often, the tow vehicle costs more than
the boat. [or even] the sandpaper can cost more than
the wood. Heck, the seat cushions can cost more
than the wood.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
me on this board. Micro brought me here, but my earliest posts were about
needing to be convinced that if I built a Micro, my Mercury Villager would
be able to haul it around. Now that I've almost got a Micro, the Villager
has died and the Micro was a large factor in choosing its replacement.
and that's only the car...
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
The boat building books don't prepare us for the
reality that: often, the tow vehicle costs more than
the boat. [or even] the sandpaper can cost more than
the wood. Heck, the seat cushions can cost more
than the wood.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
On 6/14/05, Paul Lefebvre <paul@...> wrote:
The boat building books don't prepare us for the
reality that: often, the tow vehicle costs more than
the boat. [or even] the sandpaper can cost more than
the wood. Heck, the seat cushions can cost more
than the wood.
> well for better or for worse, I bought my truck last night.<sly grin>
The boat building books don't prepare us for the
reality that: often, the tow vehicle costs more than
the boat. [or even] the sandpaper can cost more than
the wood. Heck, the seat cushions can cost more
than the wood.
well for better or for worse, I bought my truck last night. 2000 Toyota
Tacoma 'Pre-runner' (high clearance, bigger tires) 2WD, 2.7L 4cyl motor,
4spd automatic with electronic locking differential and overdrive. I'm
hoping it'll be a good vehicle both for towing the boat, and all around
utility and economy. Time will tell! At least now I can get back to
concentrating on finishing my Micro, now that I have a hauler and something
to go trailer shopping with.
Some of the key attributes of this vehicle came directly from suggestions I
got here (auto tranny, locking differential, and from the other side of the
pond and also a colleague who owns one, that the 4cyl. motor would be up to
towing). Everything's a compromise, but I'm sure I did better than I would
have without your input - so thanks again!
Paul Lefebvre
Tacoma 'Pre-runner' (high clearance, bigger tires) 2WD, 2.7L 4cyl motor,
4spd automatic with electronic locking differential and overdrive. I'm
hoping it'll be a good vehicle both for towing the boat, and all around
utility and economy. Time will tell! At least now I can get back to
concentrating on finishing my Micro, now that I have a hauler and something
to go trailer shopping with.
Some of the key attributes of this vehicle came directly from suggestions I
got here (auto tranny, locking differential, and from the other side of the
pond and also a colleague who owns one, that the 4cyl. motor would be up to
towing). Everything's a compromise, but I'm sure I did better than I would
have without your input - so thanks again!
Paul Lefebvre
The big problem with 2wd tow vehicles in tidal areas
is the slime on the ramp. Retrieval at high tide can
be a snap and at low tide impossible.
Some have mounted tow balls on the front bumper to
keep the driving wheels out of as much ramp slime as
possible.
I think you could execute the Bolger winch retireval
fairly quickly. One could probably launch and recover
the empty trailer even on a slimy ramp with a
relatively small tow vehicle.
Phil Smith
is the slime on the ramp. Retrieval at high tide can
be a snap and at low tide impossible.
Some have mounted tow balls on the front bumper to
keep the driving wheels out of as much ramp slime as
possible.
I think you could execute the Bolger winch retireval
fairly quickly. One could probably launch and recover
the empty trailer even on a slimy ramp with a
relatively small tow vehicle.
Phil Smith
Bruce has posted information about the General
Service's auction.
The CHP auctions occur every work day. They will
auction what's on the lot that day. They open the bids
at 3:00 PM. You can drive out of the lot by about
3:30.
The CHP auctions only their cars and trucks and BMW
motorcycles (usually about $5k and a good deal on a
great bike.) Call the number, 916-376-3598, and the
recording will let you know what they had on the lot
as of one, two or three days ago, it depends on how
often they update the recording and how many cars
arrive when and, I suppose, what sold.
The recording says what the "minimum bid amount" is
for each type and year of vehicle. When I bought my
truck I had my bank write my check for $101 MORE than
the minumum bid amount. The CHP won't accecpt cash, so
be prepared.
Phil Smith
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
Service's auction.
The CHP auctions occur every work day. They will
auction what's on the lot that day. They open the bids
at 3:00 PM. You can drive out of the lot by about
3:30.
The CHP auctions only their cars and trucks and BMW
motorcycles (usually about $5k and a good deal on a
great bike.) Call the number, 916-376-3598, and the
recording will let you know what they had on the lot
as of one, two or three days ago, it depends on how
often they update the recording and how many cars
arrive when and, I suppose, what sold.
The recording says what the "minimum bid amount" is
for each type and year of vehicle. When I bought my
truck I had my bank write my check for $101 MORE than
the minumum bid amount. The CHP won't accecpt cash, so
be prepared.
Phil Smith
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> > If anyone lives in California the CHP sellshttp://www.ofa.dgs.ca.gov/Auction/default.htm?AuctionID=88&AuctionDate=Wednesday%2C+June+15%2C+2005
> surplus
> > cruisers, all Crown Victorias, and 3/4 ton pickups
> > just outside of Sacramento.
>
>
>
> I think the next auction is June 15th
>
>
gee, it's a shame I don't still live in California - I think I've narrowed
it down to a pickup, going shopping this weekend! This looks like a good
assortment.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 1:34 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
sday%2C+June+15%2C+2005
I think the next auction is June 15th
it down to a pickup, going shopping this weekend! This looks like a good
assortment.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 1:34 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
> If anyone lives in California the CHP sells surplushttp://www.ofa.dgs.ca.gov/Auction/default.htm?AuctionID=88&AuctionDate=Wedne
> cruisers, all Crown Victorias, and 3/4 ton pickups
> just outside of Sacramento.
sday%2C+June+15%2C+2005
I think the next auction is June 15th
> If anyone lives in California the CHP sells surplushttp://www.ofa.dgs.ca.gov/Auction/default.htm?AuctionID=88&AuctionDate=Wednesday%2C+June+15%2C+2005
> cruisers, all Crown Victorias, and 3/4 ton pickups
> just outside of Sacramento.
I think the next auction is June 15th
If anyone lives in California the CHP sells surplus
cruisers, all Crown Victorias, and 3/4 ton pickups
just outside of Sacramento. The Crown Vics have been
completely, and I mean completely, refurbished.
Totally new interiors and trunk liners and paint. They
are painted "popular" colors. You too can look like a
travelling salesman. To quote Elwood P. Blues in the
Blues Brothers, "Cop motor, cop transmission, cop
suspension and burns regular gas." They sell these at
100,000 miles.
The pickups are used to haul portable scales about to
nab over weight trucks. They sell these at 125,000
miles.
I bought a pickup last year and put 40,000 miles on
it. It had new tires and battery. It had been
repainted and the upholstery redone. Still a few holes
in the bumper from the bash bars. A very nice metal
topper shell with opening side windows. There was a
slide out bed, like a very large file drawer.
Other than two tuneups, oil changes and new brake pads
I haven't had any problems with it. I put 40,000 miles
on it last year.
You can call 916-376-3598 to find out what vehicles
they have on their lot and what the "minimum bid
amount" is. There's usually no competition for an
individual car although you can bid on all of the cars
and tell them that you really want only one, you won't
end up owing for five cars and you'll drive away at
3:30 in a "new" refurbished cop car or truck.
I got a cashier's check for $101 MORE than the minimum
bid amount because I wanted to make sure I got the
truck, there was only one. Worked for me.
Phil Smith
cruisers, all Crown Victorias, and 3/4 ton pickups
just outside of Sacramento. The Crown Vics have been
completely, and I mean completely, refurbished.
Totally new interiors and trunk liners and paint. They
are painted "popular" colors. You too can look like a
travelling salesman. To quote Elwood P. Blues in the
Blues Brothers, "Cop motor, cop transmission, cop
suspension and burns regular gas." They sell these at
100,000 miles.
The pickups are used to haul portable scales about to
nab over weight trucks. They sell these at 125,000
miles.
I bought a pickup last year and put 40,000 miles on
it. It had new tires and battery. It had been
repainted and the upholstery redone. Still a few holes
in the bumper from the bash bars. A very nice metal
topper shell with opening side windows. There was a
slide out bed, like a very large file drawer.
Other than two tuneups, oil changes and new brake pads
I haven't had any problems with it. I put 40,000 miles
on it last year.
You can call 916-376-3598 to find out what vehicles
they have on their lot and what the "minimum bid
amount" is. There's usually no competition for an
individual car although you can bid on all of the cars
and tell them that you really want only one, you won't
end up owing for five cars and you'll drive away at
3:30 in a "new" refurbished cop car or truck.
I got a cashier's check for $101 MORE than the minimum
bid amount because I wanted to make sure I got the
truck, there was only one. Worked for me.
Phil Smith
I would make sure to add weight in the bed,
same as I did when I used to drive a truck in the snow.
Instead of dumping concrete blocks, bags of sand, etc. for weight use a sheet
of 1/4" steel
If you have a full size PK a 4X8 sheet will add 360 lbs and can fit right
between the wheelwells. It leaves the bed "empty" in case you have to load
something else. Small PKs just have to torch cut it to shape.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
same as I did when I used to drive a truck in the snow.
Instead of dumping concrete blocks, bags of sand, etc. for weight use a sheet
of 1/4" steel
If you have a full size PK a 4X8 sheet will add 360 lbs and can fit right
between the wheelwells. It leaves the bed "empty" in case you have to load
something else. Small PKs just have to torch cut it to shape.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's important to look at the limit placed by the vehicle's
manufacturer on the weight of a trailer and also on the maximum towball
weight. To exceed the limit would void the warranty and, more to the
point in an older vehicle, risk damaging it. These load limits are
often surprisingly low. For example, for a Hyundai Elantra (larger than
a Toyota Corolla), the towing limit is only 750Kg i.e. about 1,650 lb.
In many parts of the world, there are regulations that limit towed
weight as a proportion of the towing vehicle's weight. There are
usually two limits -- for a braked and unbraked trailer.
Howard
manufacturer on the weight of a trailer and also on the maximum towball
weight. To exceed the limit would void the warranty and, more to the
point in an older vehicle, risk damaging it. These load limits are
often surprisingly low. For example, for a Hyundai Elantra (larger than
a Toyota Corolla), the towing limit is only 750Kg i.e. about 1,650 lb.
In many parts of the world, there are regulations that limit towed
weight as a proportion of the towing vehicle's weight. There are
usually two limits -- for a braked and unbraked trailer.
Howard
In anticipation of towing, I searched long and hard through the possibilities.
We needed a vehicle that was useful as a second car, in traffic, in town, and
on the open road. Plus, we wanted the best value.
We ended up buying a 2.5 year-old Ford Crown Victoria LX. With less than
30,000 miles on it, we paid 50% of its new price. It's a V-8, with plenty of
towing power, the rear wheels are good on ramps, and this is certainly the
single most comfortable car to drive among all the choices listed so far.
In the city, gas mileage is just short of 20mpg. On the highway, I routinely
get 25 mpg, and going across Wyoming, fully loaded with our stuff (but no
trailer), I got 27 mpg.
If you need a car for travel that's very comfortable and also trailers, you
will find it hard to beat the Crown Vic.
People will wonder why you bought it, though. But other than on appearances,
we've clearly made the right choice. Big seats, powerful air conditioning,
quiet riding, decent gas mileage for its towing capacity, and it tows great.
Since you are almost certainly going to be buying used, I strongly encourage
you to use a "buyer's agent" who will purchase the car at "auction price"
(lower than wholesale by a fair margin), and then tack on a fee. We beat our
price expectations by more than $2000, and newer used Crown Vics were simply
not available on the retail market at all. We clearly made the right choice
for us.
We needed a vehicle that was useful as a second car, in traffic, in town, and
on the open road. Plus, we wanted the best value.
We ended up buying a 2.5 year-old Ford Crown Victoria LX. With less than
30,000 miles on it, we paid 50% of its new price. It's a V-8, with plenty of
towing power, the rear wheels are good on ramps, and this is certainly the
single most comfortable car to drive among all the choices listed so far.
In the city, gas mileage is just short of 20mpg. On the highway, I routinely
get 25 mpg, and going across Wyoming, fully loaded with our stuff (but no
trailer), I got 27 mpg.
If you need a car for travel that's very comfortable and also trailers, you
will find it hard to beat the Crown Vic.
People will wonder why you bought it, though. But other than on appearances,
we've clearly made the right choice. Big seats, powerful air conditioning,
quiet riding, decent gas mileage for its towing capacity, and it tows great.
Since you are almost certainly going to be buying used, I strongly encourage
you to use a "buyer's agent" who will purchase the car at "auction price"
(lower than wholesale by a fair margin), and then tack on a fee. We beat our
price expectations by more than $2000, and newer used Crown Vics were simply
not available on the retail market at all. We clearly made the right choice
for us.
I would add to my prior remarks that we have very little trouble hauling our
5,000 lb 27-footer up the ramp with a 2wd extended cab Toyota pickup.
Towing the boat around very much is another problem altogether, though. The
high windage of the 33' long by 8.5' wide by 8' high rig puts quite a load
on the poor truck, cutting highway mpg from around 20 to somewhere around 6
or 7 miles per gallon! That's almost as bad a mileage as the boat gets! (It
gets about 3.5 mpg at cruise, and worse at WOT).
5,000 lb 27-footer up the ramp with a 2wd extended cab Toyota pickup.
Towing the boat around very much is another problem altogether, though. The
high windage of the 33' long by 8.5' wide by 8' high rig puts quite a load
on the poor truck, cutting highway mpg from around 20 to somewhere around 6
or 7 miles per gallon! That's almost as bad a mileage as the boat gets! (It
gets about 3.5 mpg at cruise, and worse at WOT).
----- Original Message -----
From: <bpokute@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:26 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: choosing Micro tow vehicle
> I might suggest looking for an older (post '94) Chevy S-10 or GMC
> S-15 pick-up truck with a 4.3 V6 and the 4-sp automatic transmission. I
have a
> 2002 and the towing capacity is rated at 5000 lbs. The S-series is out of
> production, but General Motors had been making them for nearly 20 years.
There
> are quite a few used ones on the market (like rental returns and
trade-ins) and
> the used vehicle market is really in a slump (too many new vehicle
bonuses).
> They are nothing classly, but this is my second one (the first was an '89)
and
> they both gave, and are giving, me great service. Have a compression
check
> done on all the cylinders in the engine (they can develop oil leaks) and
make
> sure the brakes are good. Other than that they are pretty bullet proof.
> Expect to get 22mph on the highway, 18 in the city, and about 15 or 16
towing.
> Joe Copeland
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I tow ~2800lb with a Ford Explorer 2wd V-6 Automatic with a limited
slip differential. I have no problems on the quite slippery ramp
(water, seagrass) I normally use. On the other hand I see lots of
full-size pickups smoke the tires on the way up, most of them without
limited slip and no additional weight in the bed of the truck. If I
were to tow with a truck, I would make sure to add weight in the bed,
same as I did when I used to drive a truck in the snow. Need weight
over the drive wheels in order to get traction. The explorer does
this just by virtue of having higher body weight.
I wouldn't want to pull a heavy boat out of the ramp with a manual
unless it had a granny low so as not to slip the clutch so much.
Bill
slip differential. I have no problems on the quite slippery ramp
(water, seagrass) I normally use. On the other hand I see lots of
full-size pickups smoke the tires on the way up, most of them without
limited slip and no additional weight in the bed of the truck. If I
were to tow with a truck, I would make sure to add weight in the bed,
same as I did when I used to drive a truck in the snow. Need weight
over the drive wheels in order to get traction. The explorer does
this just by virtue of having higher body weight.
I wouldn't want to pull a heavy boat out of the ramp with a manual
unless it had a granny low so as not to slip the clutch so much.
Bill
On 6/9/05, Paul Lefebvre <paul@...> wrote:
> Thanks, all, for the great suggestions/info; it was just what I was hoping
> for.
>
> I've got a pretty minimalist mentality and would tend to go with the lowest
> common denominator (hey, I'm building a Micro, right?), but age and
> increasing desire for comfort and convenience have begun to temper this a
> bit. I enjoyed Bolger's writeup in MAIB a few years ago of towing his
> electric (?) boat with his small car with a winch setup, but unfortunately
> the crowded ramps close to home are mostly overpopulated with all-american,
> large 4WD-driving, impatient powerboaters who won't stand around watching
> that operation for too long; also I'd like my launchings to be quick and
> simple as possible so I'll use the boat more often. But I am a New Hampshire
> boy and have never understood the need for 4WD in wintertime if, as one
> member put it, 'you know how to drive' so I hope to stay away from the
> expense/complexity of this if possible; a friend explains it well: "Cars
> with 4wd may accelerate better than mine in snow, but they have the same
> braking ability, and that's what usually gets 'em in trouble". Towing is
> another issue entirely, but my brother never had trouble with his largish
> rear-wheel drive sedan trailering his flats skiff down in Florida on a daily
> basis so I'm probably gonna look for 2wd pickup. Good to hear about the
> trannys; again I'd probably go for a 5spd but thinking of easing the clutch
> out with that load, I think an automatic is a very good suggestion indeed. I
> think a good compromise can be reached.
>
> thanks again, knew I could count on this group for some practical advice.
> I'll post some pics soon of my micro's progress...
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> large 4WD-driving, impatient powerboatersIf you are a good smoozer, [Start by praising their rig.]
> Paul Lefebvre
you can probably talk one of those all-american-4WD
guys into snatchin your trailer up onto the level ground
for you. Where you then connect it to your small imported
2WD car and drive away.
Thanks, all, for the great suggestions/info; it was just what I was hoping
for.
I've got a pretty minimalist mentality and would tend to go with the lowest
common denominator (hey, I'm building a Micro, right?), but age and
increasing desire for comfort and convenience have begun to temper this a
bit. I enjoyed Bolger's writeup in MAIB a few years ago of towing his
electric (?) boat with his small car with a winch setup, but unfortunately
the crowded ramps close to home are mostly overpopulated with all-american,
large 4WD-driving, impatient powerboaters who won't stand around watching
that operation for too long; also I'd like my launchings to be quick and
simple as possible so I'll use the boat more often. But I am a New Hampshire
boy and have never understood the need for 4WD in wintertime if, as one
member put it, 'you know how to drive' so I hope to stay away from the
expense/complexity of this if possible; a friend explains it well: "Cars
with 4wd may accelerate better than mine in snow, but they have the same
braking ability, and that's what usually gets 'em in trouble". Towing is
another issue entirely, but my brother never had trouble with his largish
rear-wheel drive sedan trailering his flats skiff down in Florida on a daily
basis so I'm probably gonna look for 2wd pickup. Good to hear about the
trannys; again I'd probably go for a 5spd but thinking of easing the clutch
out with that load, I think an automatic is a very good suggestion indeed. I
think a good compromise can be reached.
thanks again, knew I could count on this group for some practical advice.
I'll post some pics soon of my micro's progress...
Paul Lefebvre
for.
I've got a pretty minimalist mentality and would tend to go with the lowest
common denominator (hey, I'm building a Micro, right?), but age and
increasing desire for comfort and convenience have begun to temper this a
bit. I enjoyed Bolger's writeup in MAIB a few years ago of towing his
electric (?) boat with his small car with a winch setup, but unfortunately
the crowded ramps close to home are mostly overpopulated with all-american,
large 4WD-driving, impatient powerboaters who won't stand around watching
that operation for too long; also I'd like my launchings to be quick and
simple as possible so I'll use the boat more often. But I am a New Hampshire
boy and have never understood the need for 4WD in wintertime if, as one
member put it, 'you know how to drive' so I hope to stay away from the
expense/complexity of this if possible; a friend explains it well: "Cars
with 4wd may accelerate better than mine in snow, but they have the same
braking ability, and that's what usually gets 'em in trouble". Towing is
another issue entirely, but my brother never had trouble with his largish
rear-wheel drive sedan trailering his flats skiff down in Florida on a daily
basis so I'm probably gonna look for 2wd pickup. Good to hear about the
trannys; again I'd probably go for a 5spd but thinking of easing the clutch
out with that load, I think an automatic is a very good suggestion indeed. I
think a good compromise can be reached.
thanks again, knew I could count on this group for some practical advice.
I'll post some pics soon of my micro's progress...
Paul Lefebvre
I've towed my Martha Jane with my VW camper. It can
tow it but just barely. I had real problems on the
ramp. If I was going to continue to use that
combination, I'd build the winch setup that PB&F
outlined in MAIB several years ago.
Using a 12V winch mounted on a board with the board
chained to the trailer hitch of the car which is
parked at the top of the ramp, the trailer is lowered
to the water and retrieved by using the winch. You
replace the little dolly wheel on the trailer's
landing gear with a larger wheel so the trailer rolls
better.
I'm sure that this setup would work with my VW and my
Martha Jane. It will allow you to tow with a small
vehicle and to retrieve and launch on the slipperiest
and steepest ramps without four wheel drive or smoking
clutches.
I don't recall the MAIB issue, but Phil and Susanne's
description of their solution to this problem was, as
usual, quite lucid and clever.
Phil Smith
tow it but just barely. I had real problems on the
ramp. If I was going to continue to use that
combination, I'd build the winch setup that PB&F
outlined in MAIB several years ago.
Using a 12V winch mounted on a board with the board
chained to the trailer hitch of the car which is
parked at the top of the ramp, the trailer is lowered
to the water and retrieved by using the winch. You
replace the little dolly wheel on the trailer's
landing gear with a larger wheel so the trailer rolls
better.
I'm sure that this setup would work with my VW and my
Martha Jane. It will allow you to tow with a small
vehicle and to retrieve and launch on the slipperiest
and steepest ramps without four wheel drive or smoking
clutches.
I don't recall the MAIB issue, but Phil and Susanne's
description of their solution to this problem was, as
usual, quite lucid and clever.
Phil Smith
I might suggest looking for an older (post '94) Chevy S-10 or GMC
S-15 pick-up truck with a 4.3 V6 and the 4-sp automatic transmission. I have a
2002 and the towing capacity is rated at 5000 lbs. The S-series is out of
production, but General Motors had been making them for nearly 20 years. There
are quite a few used ones on the market (like rental returns and trade-ins) and
the used vehicle market is really in a slump (too many new vehicle bonuses).
They are nothing classly, but this is my second one (the first was an '89) and
they both gave, and are giving, me great service. Have a compression check
done on all the cylinders in the engine (they can develop oil leaks) and make
sure the brakes are good. Other than that they are pretty bullet proof.
Expect to get 22mph on the highway, 18 in the city, and about 15 or 16 towing.
Joe Copeland
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S-15 pick-up truck with a 4.3 V6 and the 4-sp automatic transmission. I have a
2002 and the towing capacity is rated at 5000 lbs. The S-series is out of
production, but General Motors had been making them for nearly 20 years. There
are quite a few used ones on the market (like rental returns and trade-ins) and
the used vehicle market is really in a slump (too many new vehicle bonuses).
They are nothing classly, but this is my second one (the first was an '89) and
they both gave, and are giving, me great service. Have a compression check
done on all the cylinders in the engine (they can develop oil leaks) and make
sure the brakes are good. Other than that they are pretty bullet proof.
Expect to get 22mph on the highway, 18 in the city, and about 15 or 16 towing.
Joe Copeland
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Everyone has an opinion and it probably goes without saying that choosing a
car exclusively for it's towing capabilities is probably foolish.
First consideration is the combined weight of the trailer and boat (add at
least 10% for accumulated gear).
I have towed a 1000 lb rig with a VW deisel. Acceleration was weak,
cruising on fairly flat country was fine, braking was really weak, and gas
mileage dropped from high 40's to high 20's.
I'm guessing that a Micro and trailer will weigh 1500 to 2000 lbs. I fI
were to tow such a rig, I think I'd want trailer brakes.
4WD costs. It is more expensive to buy, uses more gas, and is more
expensive to maintain/repair. I don't think it does anything for you on the
road (unless you tow in the snow!), but it works wonderfully well when you
are trying to snatch a boat up a slick, steep ramp.
Manual transmission works fine for towing, but you still have problems
either snatching the boat out of the ater or, oddly backing. That burning
smell is an expensive clutch.
I have a two wheel drive Ford Ranger with automatic and a 3 liter 6 cylinder
engine. Works fine for towing, but traction on a steep wet ramp is weak.
My other vehicle is a Suburu Forester and I know a number of people who find
these very satisfactory. It works fine for me (my rigs weigh about
1000-1200 lbs, about half of what a Suburu is rated to tow) and I know os
several sailors who have been satisfied with Foresters as tow vehicles.
Since you live "up Nawth", the Suburu's 4wd may also be useful for getting
around in snow or "wintry mix" conditions.
And those are my opinions!
John T
car exclusively for it's towing capabilities is probably foolish.
First consideration is the combined weight of the trailer and boat (add at
least 10% for accumulated gear).
I have towed a 1000 lb rig with a VW deisel. Acceleration was weak,
cruising on fairly flat country was fine, braking was really weak, and gas
mileage dropped from high 40's to high 20's.
I'm guessing that a Micro and trailer will weigh 1500 to 2000 lbs. I fI
were to tow such a rig, I think I'd want trailer brakes.
4WD costs. It is more expensive to buy, uses more gas, and is more
expensive to maintain/repair. I don't think it does anything for you on the
road (unless you tow in the snow!), but it works wonderfully well when you
are trying to snatch a boat up a slick, steep ramp.
Manual transmission works fine for towing, but you still have problems
either snatching the boat out of the ater or, oddly backing. That burning
smell is an expensive clutch.
I have a two wheel drive Ford Ranger with automatic and a 3 liter 6 cylinder
engine. Works fine for towing, but traction on a steep wet ramp is weak.
My other vehicle is a Suburu Forester and I know a number of people who find
these very satisfactory. It works fine for me (my rigs weigh about
1000-1200 lbs, about half of what a Suburu is rated to tow) and I know os
several sailors who have been satisfied with Foresters as tow vehicles.
Since you live "up Nawth", the Suburu's 4wd may also be useful for getting
around in snow or "wintry mix" conditions.
And those are my opinions!
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "paullefebvre1" <paul@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: [bolger] choosing Micro tow vehicle
> Hi folks, long time no see...
>
> Though life has kept getting in the way, work has progressed slowly
> but steadily on my Micro, and I am optimistic it will see water
> sometime this summer, at long last.
>
> I am currently confronting the latest distraction to my boatbuilding
> concentration, which is that my intended tow vehicle, a 93 Mercury
> Villager minivan, just failed inspection and is not worth fixing, so
> now I'm car shopping. As my boat trailering experience is minimal, I
> am seeking wisdom/experience to help narrow the field. I've had good
> luck with Toyota pickups in the past for general utility/economy -
> would a light pickup with a 4cyl engine be up to the task of hauling
> a Micro? Or do I need a 6cylinders? Automatic transmission needed, or
> is manual OK? Does 4wd warrant a serious look, or can I stick with
> 2wd? I'd like to get something economical to run, and good for
> general hauling, but since my Micro will be trailer-based for at
> least the first few years until I (maybe) get convinced a mooring
> would be more practical, and then get on a waiting list for one, this
> vehicle is a key component in enjoying my creation. Intended boating
> involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
> dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 6/3/2005
>
Paul -
glad to hear you are almost there with your Micro.
I used a Ford Exploder with an automatic and 6 cylinders to haul my
Micro around. I didn't know it was there.
One word of caution. Beware of the goo on the ramps at the Cape. If
you can go with AWD or 4 Wheel drive, you will be happier. A Subaru
with a 4 cyl could haul it.
I now haul a Marshall 18 with a Saab 9-5 that has traction control. It
works great. (Tow capacity is 3500 lbs with a trailer that has brakes.)
Happy Sailing
David Jost
glad to hear you are almost there with your Micro.
I used a Ford Exploder with an automatic and 6 cylinders to haul my
Micro around. I didn't know it was there.
One word of caution. Beware of the goo on the ramps at the Cape. If
you can go with AWD or 4 Wheel drive, you will be happier. A Subaru
with a 4 cyl could haul it.
I now haul a Marshall 18 with a Saab 9-5 that has traction control. It
works great. (Tow capacity is 3500 lbs with a trailer that has brakes.)
Happy Sailing
David Jost
When I moved to Texas in 1988, I bought a red pickup truck. Culture
adaptation. This littlest Toyota, 2-wheel drive, was no match at all for
the ice storms that hit Fort Worth regularly, until ....
We were trying to get up the hill to our house one evening after sleet had
coated the roads. After about four runs, I told Ellen that the only way we
were going to get home was for her to hop out and climb on the tailgate. I
was kidding, but before I could say anything, she was back there. The truck
walked up that ice coated road with no problems at all.
I subsequently lashed two "recycle containers" (plastic boxes) to the very
rear of the box, added some sacks of landscape gravel, and had no further
traction problems. I'd certainly try to make sure the rear wheels had some
weight on them before investing in four wheel drive.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
adaptation. This littlest Toyota, 2-wheel drive, was no match at all for
the ice storms that hit Fort Worth regularly, until ....
We were trying to get up the hill to our house one evening after sleet had
coated the roads. After about four runs, I told Ellen that the only way we
were going to get home was for her to hop out and climb on the tailgate. I
was kidding, but before I could say anything, she was back there. The truck
walked up that ice coated road with no problems at all.
I subsequently lashed two "recycle containers" (plastic boxes) to the very
rear of the box, added some sacks of landscape gravel, and had no further
traction problems. I'd certainly try to make sure the rear wheels had some
weight on them before investing in four wheel drive.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
> Hrmph. Real men drive 4x4's...
>
> I've pulled my Chebacco all over the place with my 4 cylinder 4x4
> Tacoma.
Hrmph. Real men drive 4x4's...
I've pulled my Chebacco all over the place with my 4 cylinder 4x4
Tacoma.
That said, I am in the process of putting a new transmission in it...
(started slipping out of gear)...
I'm not sure that the two are related, though. The oil in it is clear
as new, and has no metal shavings at all. I don't have the time to
pull it appart, or I would, just to see what's wrong..
When I took the clutch disk in to get a replacement, the old guy at
the counter took one look at it and said "why are you replacing it?"...
I've pulled my Chebacco all over the place with my 4 cylinder 4x4
Tacoma.
That said, I am in the process of putting a new transmission in it...
(started slipping out of gear)...
I'm not sure that the two are related, though. The oil in it is clear
as new, and has no metal shavings at all. I don't have the time to
pull it appart, or I would, just to see what's wrong..
When I took the clutch disk in to get a replacement, the old guy at
the counter took one look at it and said "why are you replacing it?"...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "robert pyfrom" <neetra@c...> wrote:
> Wonderful!!!!! Before I buy a boat, I ask what will it take to tow
it!!! On
> this side of the pond, I've been driving small cars since before
there were
> small cars. So maybe I'm limited as to what I may own because I
refuse to
> deal with a descendant of Blackbeard at the local Marina and trailer
my boat
> back and forth. I first look at what will it take to stop! Starting
is no
> problem if you know how to drive. Sorry 4 wheelers, but if you knew
how to
> drive, you really don't need it.
> Comboat
Wonderful!!!!! Before I buy a boat, I ask what will it take to tow it!!! On
this side of the pond, I've been driving small cars since before there were
small cars. So maybe I'm limited as to what I may own because I refuse to
deal with a descendant of Blackbeard at the local Marina and trailer my boat
back and forth. I first look at what will it take to stop! Starting is no
problem if you know how to drive. Sorry 4 wheelers, but if you knew how to
drive, you really don't need it.
Comboat
this side of the pond, I've been driving small cars since before there were
small cars. So maybe I'm limited as to what I may own because I refuse to
deal with a descendant of Blackbeard at the local Marina and trailer my boat
back and forth. I first look at what will it take to stop! Starting is no
problem if you know how to drive. Sorry 4 wheelers, but if you knew how to
drive, you really don't need it.
Comboat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Samson" <willsamson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] choosing Micro tow vehicle
> I must say, looking from this side of the Pond, that the vehicles you guys
are discussing are GIGANTIC!!!!! The biggest car I ever owned was a 1.9
litre and most of my towing (including a Chebacco) has been done with a 1.1
litre compact car. I've never had any problems with that - just a little
circumspection needed regarding slips and so on - hauling out with a rope
attached to the trailer so the car is on the level at the top of the slip
and so on.
>
> I've seen many smoking clutches in bigger cars trying to haul boat and
trailer plus their own weight up a steep slimy slip. The direct approach
isn't always the most successful. With fuel costing about 4 pounds ($7) a
gallon over here, we need to consider these things.
>
> Bill (in hilly Scotland)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I must say, looking from this side of the Pond, that the vehicles you guys are discussing are GIGANTIC!!!!! The biggest car I ever owned was a 1.9 litre and most of my towing (including a Chebacco) has been done with a 1.1 litre compact car. I've never had any problems with that - just a little circumspection needed regarding slips and so on - hauling out with a rope attached to the trailer so the car is on the level at the top of the slip and so on.
I've seen many smoking clutches in bigger cars trying to haul boat and trailer plus their own weight up a steep slimy slip. The direct approach isn't always the most successful. With fuel costing about 4 pounds ($7) a gallon over here, we need to consider these things.
Bill (in hilly Scotland)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've seen many smoking clutches in bigger cars trying to haul boat and trailer plus their own weight up a steep slimy slip. The direct approach isn't always the most successful. With fuel costing about 4 pounds ($7) a gallon over here, we need to consider these things.
Bill (in hilly Scotland)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I figure a Micro on a trailer with motor and gear at about 1600 lbs all up.
I've got a pop up camper of similar weight that should be OK behind a four
cylinder Tacoma. The 2005 Tacoma has a pretty gutsy motor, about 175 HP IIRC
for the 2.7L four.
I see a lot of back and forth about 4wd. My opinion is that it's probably
not absolutely necessary for a boat+trailer weight of less than 1800 lbs.
Therefore, instead of dropping a couple of thousand extra for 4wd that will
only be very rarely used, that adds weight and complexity to the vehicle,
and penalizes you with added fuel cost, spend a only a couple hundred extra
dollars for a locking or limited slip rear differential. The traction
afforded by a locking diff will often get you 80% of what you gain from 4wd.
I've been looking hard at the 2005 Tacoma 4-door 2wd pickup myself. They are
really nice rides.
I've got a pop up camper of similar weight that should be OK behind a four
cylinder Tacoma. The 2005 Tacoma has a pretty gutsy motor, about 175 HP IIRC
for the 2.7L four.
I see a lot of back and forth about 4wd. My opinion is that it's probably
not absolutely necessary for a boat+trailer weight of less than 1800 lbs.
Therefore, instead of dropping a couple of thousand extra for 4wd that will
only be very rarely used, that adds weight and complexity to the vehicle,
and penalizes you with added fuel cost, spend a only a couple hundred extra
dollars for a locking or limited slip rear differential. The traction
afforded by a locking diff will often get you 80% of what you gain from 4wd.
I've been looking hard at the 2005 Tacoma 4-door 2wd pickup myself. They are
really nice rides.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hal" <hl700@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] choosing Micro tow vehicle
|
| On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:20 PM, paullefebvre1 wrote:
|
| > Intended boating
| > involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
| > dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
|
| An automatic transmission can be a big help on the launch
| ramp. Can you say smoking clutch?!
|
| The first time the rear wheels have to get on the slick
| stuff at the ramp 4 wheel drive will pay for itself. Nice
| on slick winter roads too.
|
| vehicle tow ratings are usually optimistic so 1.5 to 2 times
| the all up weight of loaded boat and trailer should be safe.
|
| hal
|
|
|
|
| [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
> since my Micro will be trailer-basedAnother 'data point' of advice:
> Paul Lefebvre
My Micro is probably one of the heavier ones,
I estimate about 2,600lbs for boat, trailer and gear.
I tow it with my Ford Explorer 4WD, and feel comfortable,
a smaller vehicle might also work, I am not sure. It basically
boils down to what safety factor you find acceptable.
Owning a 4WD vehicle in sunny California made me feel
kind of stupid for several years, but the first time I hauled
the trailer up a slimy boat ramp I *really* appreciated 4WD.
A 2WD Ford F150 just before on the same ramp had
big trouble with spinning and smoking wheels. My
4WD didn't break a sweat.
I own another 'beater' car with better gas mileage for
my daily commute. Ford Explorers really suck gas.
On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:20 PM, paullefebvre1 wrote:
ramp. Can you say smoking clutch?!
The first time the rear wheels have to get on the slick
stuff at the ramp 4 wheel drive will pay for itself. Nice
on slick winter roads too.
vehicle tow ratings are usually optimistic so 1.5 to 2 times
the all up weight of loaded boat and trailer should be safe.
hal
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Intended boatingAn automatic transmission can be a big help on the launch
> involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
> dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
ramp. Can you say smoking clutch?!
The first time the rear wheels have to get on the slick
stuff at the ramp 4 wheel drive will pay for itself. Nice
on slick winter roads too.
vehicle tow ratings are usually optimistic so 1.5 to 2 times
the all up weight of loaded boat and trailer should be safe.
hal
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What do you reckon will be the tow weight (trailer+Micro+gear)?
Mark is right - stopping is a big part (read good brakes).
Frontal area can also an issue but probably not with a Micro.
Automatics are much more durable than the 5 speeds found in todays light trucks of ANY make. And when I say light trucks I mean right up to 3/4 ton full size.
Jon Cassino
This email has been scanned by Norton Anti-Virus prior to being sent to you.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark is right - stopping is a big part (read good brakes).
Frontal area can also an issue but probably not with a Micro.
Automatics are much more durable than the 5 speeds found in todays light trucks of ANY make. And when I say light trucks I mean right up to 3/4 ton full size.
Jon Cassino
This email has been scanned by Norton Anti-Virus prior to being sent to you.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <wtorry@v...> wrote:
winters and such.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
> 4-cyl., 2wd, automatic transmission with an auxilliary transmissionPS: You may want 4wd based on where you are. Not for the boat. For
> cooler Toyota truck will be fine. Don't buy a trailer until you know
> exactly what the Micro weighs. If the boat+trailer weighs 2,000
> pounds (or even close to it), you will want (or be required to have)
> brakes on the trailer. 13" wheels & tires minimum on the trailer.
> Galvanized trailer.
>
> Wayne
> In the Swamp.
winters and such.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "paullefebvre1" <paul@w...> wrote:
cooler Toyota truck will be fine. Don't buy a trailer until you know
exactly what the Micro weighs. If the boat+trailer weighs 2,000
pounds (or even close to it), you will want (or be required to have)
brakes on the trailer. 13" wheels & tires minimum on the trailer.
Galvanized trailer.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
> Hi folks, long time no see...boatbuilding
>
> Though life has kept getting in the way, work has progressed slowly
> but steadily on my Micro, and I am optimistic it will see water
> sometime this summer, at long last.
>
> I am currently confronting the latest distraction to my
> concentration, which is that my intended tow vehicle, a 93 Mercuryso
> Villager minivan, just failed inspection and is not worth fixing,
> now I'm car shopping. As my boat trailering experience is minimal,I
> am seeking wisdom/experience to help narrow the field. I've hadgood
> luck with Toyota pickups in the past for general utility/economy -hauling
> would a light pickup with a 4cyl engine be up to the task of
> a Micro? Or do I need a 6cylinders? Automatic transmission needed,or
> is manual OK? Does 4wd warrant a serious look, or can I stick withthis
> 2wd? I'd like to get something economical to run, and good for
> general hauling, but since my Micro will be trailer-based for at
> least the first few years until I (maybe) get convinced a mooring
> would be more practical, and then get on a waiting list for one,
> vehicle is a key component in enjoying my creation. Intendedboating
> involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a4-cyl., 2wd, automatic transmission with an auxilliary transmission
> dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
cooler Toyota truck will be fine. Don't buy a trailer until you know
exactly what the Micro weighs. If the boat+trailer weighs 2,000
pounds (or even close to it), you will want (or be required to have)
brakes on the trailer. 13" wheels & tires minimum on the trailer.
Galvanized trailer.
Wayne
In the Swamp.
I would not get a domestic 4 cyclinder. My ford is very weak and
does not get good milleage.
Towing wieght is not relly a problem, stopping power is!
does not get good milleage.
Towing wieght is not relly a problem, stopping power is!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "paullefebvre1" <paul@w...> wrote:
> Hi folks, long time no see...
>
> Though life has kept getting in the way, work has progressed
slowly
> but steadily on my Micro, and I am optimistic it will see water
> sometime this summer, at long last.
>
> I am currently confronting the latest distraction to my
boatbuilding
> concentration, which is that my intended tow vehicle, a 93 Mercury
> Villager minivan, just failed inspection and is not worth fixing,
so
> now I'm car shopping. As my boat trailering experience is minimal,
I
> am seeking wisdom/experience to help narrow the field. I've had
good
> luck with Toyota pickups in the past for general utility/economy -
> would a light pickup with a 4cyl engine be up to the task of
hauling
> a Micro? Or do I need a 6cylinders? Automatic transmission needed,
or
> is manual OK? Does 4wd warrant a serious look, or can I stick with
> 2wd? I'd like to get something economical to run, and good for
> general hauling, but since my Micro will be trailer-based for at
> least the first few years until I (maybe) get convinced a mooring
> would be more practical, and then get on a waiting list for one,
this
> vehicle is a key component in enjoying my creation. Intended
boating
> involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
> dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
Hi folks, long time no see...
Though life has kept getting in the way, work has progressed slowly
but steadily on my Micro, and I am optimistic it will see water
sometime this summer, at long last.
I am currently confronting the latest distraction to my boatbuilding
concentration, which is that my intended tow vehicle, a 93 Mercury
Villager minivan, just failed inspection and is not worth fixing, so
now I'm car shopping. As my boat trailering experience is minimal, I
am seeking wisdom/experience to help narrow the field. I've had good
luck with Toyota pickups in the past for general utility/economy -
would a light pickup with a 4cyl engine be up to the task of hauling
a Micro? Or do I need a 6cylinders? Automatic transmission needed, or
is manual OK? Does 4wd warrant a serious look, or can I stick with
2wd? I'd like to get something economical to run, and good for
general hauling, but since my Micro will be trailer-based for at
least the first few years until I (maybe) get convinced a mooring
would be more practical, and then get on a waiting list for one, this
vehicle is a key component in enjoying my creation. Intended boating
involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
Thanks,
Paul Lefebvre
Though life has kept getting in the way, work has progressed slowly
but steadily on my Micro, and I am optimistic it will see water
sometime this summer, at long last.
I am currently confronting the latest distraction to my boatbuilding
concentration, which is that my intended tow vehicle, a 93 Mercury
Villager minivan, just failed inspection and is not worth fixing, so
now I'm car shopping. As my boat trailering experience is minimal, I
am seeking wisdom/experience to help narrow the field. I've had good
luck with Toyota pickups in the past for general utility/economy -
would a light pickup with a 4cyl engine be up to the task of hauling
a Micro? Or do I need a 6cylinders? Automatic transmission needed, or
is manual OK? Does 4wd warrant a serious look, or can I stick with
2wd? I'd like to get something economical to run, and good for
general hauling, but since my Micro will be trailer-based for at
least the first few years until I (maybe) get convinced a mooring
would be more practical, and then get on a waiting list for one, this
vehicle is a key component in enjoying my creation. Intended boating
involves mostly local towing here on Cape Cod, with perhaps a
dreamed-of trip to the Maine coast someday.
Thanks,
Paul Lefebvre