Re: [bolger] Soap In Your Chocolate Bar
Tohatsus are sold in the US as Nissans and Mercuries. But there are still
some parts problems. Nissan wants a minimum $50 parts order from their
dealers! Mercury doesn't have a minimum order, but they'd rather not do
small orders and have more subtle ways to discourage them -- like high
shipping and "handling" charges. <sigh>
some parts problems. Nissan wants a minimum $50 parts order from their
dealers! Mercury doesn't have a minimum order, but they'd rather not do
small orders and have more subtle ways to discourage them -- like high
shipping and "handling" charges. <sigh>
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:34:53 -0500, Wesley C wrote:
> I have also contemplated Tohatsu, but a prelimary search for parts
> supply was bleak at best. If you don't mind my aksing, do you have
> leads on parts?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run.
<John Barrymore>
I don't recall that series in WB, but they did have some articles on
marinizing a Subaru engine some years ago, and a design contest for a good
boat to put it in, IIRC. I don't think there was ever any real problem with
making it safe. Almost all (alas!) gas inboards are just marinized auto
engines -- Mazda Wankels, and you don't hear of them blowing up left and
right.
The trouble is that there are very, very few small gas marine engines around
today. I can only think of two or three still being made, and all of those
are made overseas. Diesels are expensive, smelly, noisy and vibratory. It's
easy to see why some of us think about using a cheap agricultural or
industrial air-cooled engine in a boat. It'd probably be noisy and
vibratory, but at least it wouldn't be smelly and expensive. The key to
making a Briggs and Stratton engine safe in a boat is simple, just don't
enclose it. Even the Coast Guard doesn't mind if you don't have a "marine"
carburettor if the engine isn't fully enclosed. Although the CG won't fuss
about it, it's also a good idea to move the gas tank away from the engine,
easy to do with newer B&S engines, which all have "real" carburettors with
floats.
In the Old Days makers of air-cooled engines like Briggs and Stratton, Reo
and Wisconsin sold marine versions of their engines. The conversion
consisted of a reverse gear (sometimes) and maybe a spark arrestor on the
carburettor. Lots of people just stuck an engine off a lawnmower or roto-
tiller in their boat. There's nothing odd or dangerous about doing the same
thing today.
marinizing a Subaru engine some years ago, and a design contest for a good
boat to put it in, IIRC. I don't think there was ever any real problem with
making it safe. Almost all (alas!) gas inboards are just marinized auto
engines -- Mazda Wankels, and you don't hear of them blowing up left and
right.
The trouble is that there are very, very few small gas marine engines around
today. I can only think of two or three still being made, and all of those
are made overseas. Diesels are expensive, smelly, noisy and vibratory. It's
easy to see why some of us think about using a cheap agricultural or
industrial air-cooled engine in a boat. It'd probably be noisy and
vibratory, but at least it wouldn't be smelly and expensive. The key to
making a Briggs and Stratton engine safe in a boat is simple, just don't
enclose it. Even the Coast Guard doesn't mind if you don't have a "marine"
carburettor if the engine isn't fully enclosed. Although the CG won't fuss
about it, it's also a good idea to move the gas tank away from the engine,
easy to do with newer B&S engines, which all have "real" carburettors with
floats.
In the Old Days makers of air-cooled engines like Briggs and Stratton, Reo
and Wisconsin sold marine versions of their engines. The conversion
consisted of a reverse gear (sometimes) and maybe a spark arrestor on the
carburettor. Lots of people just stuck an engine off a lawnmower or roto-
tiller in their boat. There's nothing odd or dangerous about doing the same
thing today.
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Phil S wrote:
> Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
> Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
> probably a really bad idea.
>
> WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
> series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
> its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
> little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
> used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
> design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
> enough for the Coast Guard.
>
> One of the things that makes marine rated engines cost
> more than non-marine engines is a strict attention to
> managing and containing gasoline. Managing and
> containing gasoline is a very good idea, especially so
> on a boat. Explosions and fire are the result of poor
> gasoline and gasoline vapor containment.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself
into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance
of being drowned... A man in jail has more room, better food, and
commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
That was back when SBJ was still in the original wide format, IIRC. My SBJs
aren't handy right now, so I can't look the exact issues.
aren't handy right now, so I can't look the exact issues.
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:38:23 -0800, Harry wrote:
> John
>
> approximately what issues?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>
Without B&S engines there would be a lot of us not enjoying crab cocktails.
B&S have long been a mainstay on the Chesapeake with direct drive. Aim
before you start.
Comboat
B&S have long been a mainstay on the Chesapeake with direct drive. Aim
before you start.
Comboat
----- Original Message -----
From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Soap In Your Chocolate Bar
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> > Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
> > Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
> > probably a really bad idea.
> >
> > WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
> > series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
> > its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
> > little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
> > used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
> > design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
> > enough for the Coast Guard.
> >
> > One of the things that makes marine rated engines cost
> > more than non-marine engines is a strict attention to
> > managing and containing gasoline. Managing and
> > containing gasoline is a very good idea, especially so
> > on a boat. Explosions and fire are the result of poor
> > gasoline and gasoline vapor containment.
> >
> > If you want an inboard, I'd look for a used diesel. If
> > you want an outboard, look for a used one of those.
> > There are many unappreciated engines going for not too
> > much money, even in the height of the boating season.
> >
> > I like, based on what I've read and in conversations
> > with PB&F, the Yamaha High Thrust line. I've seen
> > Yamaha High Thrust 9.9 hp motors go for around $1,000.
> > The high thrust line has big advantages over regular
> > outboards for displacement hulls.
> >
> > I bought my three cylinder Deutz diesel, a F3L 1011F,
> > which is 38 kW and air/oil cooled for less than $1,000
> > on E-bay. I had to go pick it up, but it was a hell of
> > a deal. The air cooled Deutz engines have the PB&F
> > stamp of approval.
> >
> > What the hell I'm going to do with it now is another
> > story, but I'm confident that I'll figure something
> > out. I'd like to have PB&F's assistance in the
> > figuring, but my schedule remains in flux. They had
> > some interesting ideas about a small tug...
> >
> > Anyway, be damn careful when you are saving money.
> > Saving money in the wrong places can be really
> > expensive.
> >
> > Some company that regularly advertised in Boats and
> > Harbors always had Chinese diesels with marine
> > transmissions for pretty low prices. Someone on the
> > group must subscribe to Boats & Harbors.
> >
> > Phil Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I planed my 18' AF4 with the whole family on board (wife and 2 kids) with
7.5 horses. Flatties will get on plane with surprisingly little power.
Weight is certainly one factor, but so is waterplane area. A light boat with
a relatively large lifting area needs less power to plane than a light boat
with a small lifting area.
Probably the best boats are the ones that do as Robb White describes by
getting on plane before they reach their hull speed. Michalak's QT would
probably fall into this category.
JB
7.5 horses. Flatties will get on plane with surprisingly little power.
Weight is certainly one factor, but so is waterplane area. A light boat with
a relatively large lifting area needs less power to plane than a light boat
with a small lifting area.
Probably the best boats are the ones that do as Robb White describes by
getting on plane before they reach their hull speed. Michalak's QT would
probably fall into this category.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <wmrpage@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bee #581
| In a message dated 6/15/05 4:24:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
|ronb_5@...writes:
|
| > Between my wife and I, we weigh ~350 lbs. ... ...So, I'm looking for
| > something small &light enough for 5hp to push on plane, and with enough
freeboard
| > to keep the wakes outside where they belong.
| >
| I think you are daydreaming. 350#/5hp = 70#/hp, which is too heavy
to
| make the Crouch planing speed/hp graph in David Gerr's "Propeller
Handbook".
| If you add up your weights, the weight of the boat, that of the motor, the
fuel
| and other paraphernalia, I think you can forget about planing with 5 hp.
As a
| less than 100# youth, with a 14 ft. aluminum boat and a 5 gallon gas tank,
I
| was able to plane, albeit at not any great rate of speed, with a 5 hp.
Johnson
| motor nearly 1/2 century ago. I don't think that the pertinent laws of
| physics have changed since then.
|
| Ciao for Niao,
| Bill in MN
|
|
| [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All of the small 4-stroke Mecuries are now relabelled Tohatsus as well. I
think with the internet, parts availability isn't as much of an issue as you
might think. Warranty service might be the killer for some going to Tohatsu.
I'm not too worried myself with five dealers within 50 miles.
think with the internet, parts availability isn't as much of an issue as you
might think. Warranty service might be the killer for some going to Tohatsu.
I'm not too worried myself with five dealers within 50 miles.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Chamberland" <cha62759@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:13 AM
Subject: [bolger] Tohatsu parts
> I may not be remembering correctly but I seem to have read that the
> Nissan is a relabeled Tohatsu. I seem to remember that there are other
> engines that are built by Tohatsu but use a different label.
> Bob Chamberland
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspiredfe@m...> wrote:
> > I have also contemplated Tohatsu, but a prelimary search for parts
> > supply was bleak at best. If you don't mind my aksing, do you have
> > leads on parts?
> >
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I may not be remembering correctly but I seem to have read that the
Nissan is a relabeled Tohatsu. I seem to remember that there are other
engines that are built by Tohatsu but use a different label.
Bob Chamberland
Nissan is a relabeled Tohatsu. I seem to remember that there are other
engines that are built by Tohatsu but use a different label.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspiredfe@m...> wrote:
> I have also contemplated Tohatsu, but a prelimary search for parts
> supply was bleak at best. If you don't mind my aksing, do you have
> leads on parts?
>
> approximately what issues?Junebug was a source of controversy back when
>
> HJ
it was first published in the Small Boat Journal,
in short because it had vertical sides [in other
words, it doesn't look like a boat should look, or
put otherwise, it looks like a box.]
http://hallman.org/bolger/junebug_letter.gif
...is one of the Bolger replies, I recall one more too.
The Sport Boat and the Grumman canoe are similar to the motor canoe,
described in Ch.14 of Boats with an Open Mind.
That canoe is 15'9" x only 36", whereas the Sport Boat had a 43"
beam. PCB recommends a motor between 2 and 8 hp and says it would do
15 kts with 8 hp -- no load stated, although the plan shows a
displacement of 545lb. It's round-bilged, with a nice tumblehome aft
and meant to be built like a stripper canoe.
Howard
described in Ch.14 of Boats with an Open Mind.
That canoe is 15'9" x only 36", whereas the Sport Boat had a 43"
beam. PCB recommends a motor between 2 and 8 hp and says it would do
15 kts with 8 hp -- no load stated, although the plan shows a
displacement of 545lb. It's round-bilged, with a nice tumblehome aft
and meant to be built like a stripper canoe.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> Robb White says his improved Sport Boat will plane him
> with a Weedless Three. Ought to plane you and your
> wife with a five.
>
> Read All About It.
>
>http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html
>
> Not an instant boat by any stretch of imagination.
>
> You owe it to yourself to read about pantihose, too.
> Try not to laugh out loud as you do.
>
> Phil Smith
Robb White says his improved Sport Boat will plane him
with a Weedless Three. Ought to plane you and your
wife with a five.
Read All About It.
http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html
Not an instant boat by any stretch of imagination.
You owe it to yourself to read about pantihose, too.
Try not to laugh out loud as you do.
Phil Smith
with a Weedless Three. Ought to plane you and your
wife with a five.
Read All About It.
http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html
Not an instant boat by any stretch of imagination.
You owe it to yourself to read about pantihose, too.
Try not to laugh out loud as you do.
Phil Smith
John
approximately what issues?
HJ
jhkohnen@...wrote:
approximately what issues?
HJ
jhkohnen@...wrote:
>--snip--
>Billy and John Atkin were masters of the flat-bottom form. Their ideas were
>radically different from Bolger's though, and there was an interesting
>argument between John A and PCB in the letters section of Small Boat Journal
>after PCB had an article on June Bug in the magazine. But both Atkin boats
>and Bolger boats work good, they just used different ways to get there...
>
>
>
> I think you are daydreaming. 350#/5hp = 70#/hp, which is tooWell I can't contradict this, but there is nothing wrong with a little
daydreaming.
I can easily plane a Bolger Skimmer, with an 8hp and 400+# of crew
aboard = 50# /1hp.
but anyway, HOW ABOUT A FAST BRICK!
like a bee skimming brick!
Rhett
In a message dated 6/15/05 4:24:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
ronb_5@...writes:
make the Crouch planing speed/hp graph in David Gerr's "Propeller Handbook".
If you add up your weights, the weight of the boat, that of the motor, the fuel
and other paraphernalia, I think you can forget about planing with 5 hp. As a
less than 100# youth, with a 14 ft. aluminum boat and a 5 gallon gas tank, I
was able to plane, albeit at not any great rate of speed, with a 5 hp. Johnson
motor nearly 1/2 century ago. I don't think that the pertinent laws of
physics have changed since then.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ronb_5@...writes:
> Between my wife and I, we weigh ~350 lbs. ... ...So, I'm looking forI think you are daydreaming. 350#/5hp = 70#/hp, which is too heavy to
> something small &light enough for 5hp to push on plane, and with enough freeboard
> to keep the wakes outside where they belong.
>
make the Crouch planing speed/hp graph in David Gerr's "Propeller Handbook".
If you add up your weights, the weight of the boat, that of the motor, the fuel
and other paraphernalia, I think you can forget about planing with 5 hp. As a
less than 100# youth, with a 14 ft. aluminum boat and a 5 gallon gas tank, I
was able to plane, albeit at not any great rate of speed, with a 5 hp. Johnson
motor nearly 1/2 century ago. I don't think that the pertinent laws of
physics have changed since then.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since I just acquired a 5-horse outboard myself (a local sporting goods
chain was getting out of the outboard business and was giving away Nissans
at below cost :o) ) I've also been thinking about a good boat for that
power. They'll probably string me up by my thumbs for mentioning them here
(especially since I get a cut from the plan sales <g>) but there are several
Atkin skiffs that are just right for 5 hp. I'm currently most enamored of
Sprite. The Atkin skiffs aren't instant boats, but are pretty simple:
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/
Billy and John Atkin were masters of the flat-bottom form. Their ideas were
radically different from Bolger's though, and there was an interesting
argument between John A and PCB in the letters section of Small Boat Journal
after PCB had an article on June Bug in the magazine. But both Atkin boats
and Bolger boats work good, they just used different ways to get there...
chain was getting out of the outboard business and was giving away Nissans
at below cost :o) ) I've also been thinking about a good boat for that
power. They'll probably string me up by my thumbs for mentioning them here
(especially since I get a cut from the plan sales <g>) but there are several
Atkin skiffs that are just right for 5 hp. I'm currently most enamored of
Sprite. The Atkin skiffs aren't instant boats, but are pretty simple:
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/
Billy and John Atkin were masters of the flat-bottom form. Their ideas were
radically different from Bolger's though, and there was an interesting
argument between John A and PCB in the letters section of Small Boat Journal
after PCB had an article on June Bug in the magazine. But both Atkin boats
and Bolger boats work good, they just used different ways to get there...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:29:05 -0400, RonB wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who replied with info on the Bee.
>
> I think it will be a bit too small for what I want to do, which is poke
> around nearby lakes with my wife.
>
> I am looking for something that will not overload the new Briggs 5hp
> outboard, but still be stable enough to not worry about ski-boat wakes.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
"Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
"Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth.
<Alfred North Whitehead>
At 07:46 PM 6/15/05, you wrote:
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?docid=76403
Regards,
RonB
>In the recent string about someone using a B&S motor, I'm 99% certain he wasExactly. Here's the link:
>talking about the new 5 HP outboard. These are pretty nice little packages
>for not much money, as long as you heed the manufacturer's edict they are
>for fresh water only.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?docid=76403
Regards,
RonB
I don't know that I agree w' Flying Cloud being in the same group as
Bee. I can't know for sure, but flying cloud looks more like Small
Motor Sailer than anything else I'm aware of. After all, sail
propelled, heavily rockered.
Of course, I've not read most essay's.
Don
Bee. I can't know for sure, but flying cloud looks more like Small
Motor Sailer than anything else I'm aware of. After all, sail
propelled, heavily rockered.
Of course, I've not read most essay's.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Yes, Bee was designed as a half scale test
>
> Also, 'Flying Cloud' #614
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/614/
>
> ...was a test boat in this sequence.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
> Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
> probably a really bad idea.
>
> WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
> series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
> its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
> little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
> used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
> design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
> enough for the Coast Guard.
>
> One of the things that makes marine rated engines cost
> more than non-marine engines is a strict attention to
> managing and containing gasoline. Managing and
> containing gasoline is a very good idea, especially so
> on a boat. Explosions and fire are the result of poor
> gasoline and gasoline vapor containment.
>
> If you want an inboard, I'd look for a used diesel. If
> you want an outboard, look for a used one of those.
> There are many unappreciated engines going for not too
> much money, even in the height of the boating season.
>
> I like, based on what I've read and in conversations
> with PB&F, the Yamaha High Thrust line. I've seen
> Yamaha High Thrust 9.9 hp motors go for around $1,000.
> The high thrust line has big advantages over regular
> outboards for displacement hulls.
>
> I bought my three cylinder Deutz diesel, a F3L 1011F,
> which is 38 kW and air/oil cooled for less than $1,000
> on E-bay. I had to go pick it up, but it was a hell of
> a deal. The air cooled Deutz engines have the PB&F
> stamp of approval.
>
> What the hell I'm going to do with it now is another
> story, but I'm confident that I'll figure something
> out. I'd like to have PB&F's assistance in the
> figuring, but my schedule remains in flux. They had
> some interesting ideas about a small tug...
>
> Anyway, be damn careful when you are saving money.
> Saving money in the wrong places can be really
> expensive.
>
> Some company that regularly advertised in Boats and
> Harbors always had Chinese diesels with marine
> transmissions for pretty low prices. Someone on the
> group must subscribe to Boats & Harbors.
>
> Phil Smith
I have also contemplated Tohatsu, but a prelimary search for parts
supply was bleak at best. If you don't mind my aksing, do you have
leads on parts?
John Bell wrote:
supply was bleak at best. If you don't mind my aksing, do you have
leads on parts?
John Bell wrote:
> Couple of points: The Woodenboat series was using a Subaru flat-4 engine.
> They did come back the next issue to deal with some of the details on
> marinizing the engine, but it appeared that as long as you did the
> detail it
> could be done safely. I agree it would be easier and probably even cheaper
> to start with a marine engine in the first place.
>
> In the recent string about someone using a B&S motor, I'm 99% certain
> he was
> talking about the new 5 HP outboard. These are pretty nice little packages
> for not much money, as long as you heed the manufacturer's edict they are
> for fresh water only.
>
> As for outboards, if I buy another one any time soon it will be a 4 stroke
> Tohatsu.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Smith" <pbs@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 7:39 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Soap In Your Chocolate Bar
>
>
> | Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
> | Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
> | probably a really bad idea.
> |
> | WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
> | series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
> | its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
> | little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
> | used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
> | design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
> | enough for the Coast Guard.
> |
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
Couple of points: The Woodenboat series was using a Subaru flat-4 engine.
They did come back the next issue to deal with some of the details on
marinizing the engine, but it appeared that as long as you did the detail it
could be done safely. I agree it would be easier and probably even cheaper
to start with a marine engine in the first place.
In the recent string about someone using a B&S motor, I'm 99% certain he was
talking about the new 5 HP outboard. These are pretty nice little packages
for not much money, as long as you heed the manufacturer's edict they are
for fresh water only.
As for outboards, if I buy another one any time soon it will be a 4 stroke
Tohatsu.
They did come back the next issue to deal with some of the details on
marinizing the engine, but it appeared that as long as you did the detail it
could be done safely. I agree it would be easier and probably even cheaper
to start with a marine engine in the first place.
In the recent string about someone using a B&S motor, I'm 99% certain he was
talking about the new 5 HP outboard. These are pretty nice little packages
for not much money, as long as you heed the manufacturer's edict they are
for fresh water only.
As for outboards, if I buy another one any time soon it will be a 4 stroke
Tohatsu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Smith" <pbs@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: [bolger] Soap In Your Chocolate Bar
| Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
| Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
| probably a really bad idea.
|
| WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
| series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
| its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
| little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
| used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
| design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
| enough for the Coast Guard.
|
Many subscribers to the group have talked about using
Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
probably a really bad idea.
WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
enough for the Coast Guard.
One of the things that makes marine rated engines cost
more than non-marine engines is a strict attention to
managing and containing gasoline. Managing and
containing gasoline is a very good idea, especially so
on a boat. Explosions and fire are the result of poor
gasoline and gasoline vapor containment.
If you want an inboard, I'd look for a used diesel. If
you want an outboard, look for a used one of those.
There are many unappreciated engines going for not too
much money, even in the height of the boating season.
I like, based on what I've read and in conversations
with PB&F, the Yamaha High Thrust line. I've seen
Yamaha High Thrust 9.9 hp motors go for around $1,000.
The high thrust line has big advantages over regular
outboards for displacement hulls.
I bought my three cylinder Deutz diesel, a F3L 1011F,
which is 38 kW and air/oil cooled for less than $1,000
on E-bay. I had to go pick it up, but it was a hell of
a deal. The air cooled Deutz engines have the PB&F
stamp of approval.
What the hell I'm going to do with it now is another
story, but I'm confident that I'll figure something
out. I'd like to have PB&F's assistance in the
figuring, but my schedule remains in flux. They had
some interesting ideas about a small tug...
Anyway, be damn careful when you are saving money.
Saving money in the wrong places can be really
expensive.
Some company that regularly advertised in Boats and
Harbors always had Chinese diesels with marine
transmissions for pretty low prices. Someone on the
group must subscribe to Boats & Harbors.
Phil Smith
Briggs & Stratton engines in their boats. This is
probably a really bad idea.
WoodenBoat had a series of articles, two can be a
series, on a boat that used a Mazda Wankel engine as
its powerplant. Great power plant for a boat, small,
little vibration, readily available and inexpensive
used. If I recall correctly they had to retract the
design because the car engine couldn't be made safe
enough for the Coast Guard.
One of the things that makes marine rated engines cost
more than non-marine engines is a strict attention to
managing and containing gasoline. Managing and
containing gasoline is a very good idea, especially so
on a boat. Explosions and fire are the result of poor
gasoline and gasoline vapor containment.
If you want an inboard, I'd look for a used diesel. If
you want an outboard, look for a used one of those.
There are many unappreciated engines going for not too
much money, even in the height of the boating season.
I like, based on what I've read and in conversations
with PB&F, the Yamaha High Thrust line. I've seen
Yamaha High Thrust 9.9 hp motors go for around $1,000.
The high thrust line has big advantages over regular
outboards for displacement hulls.
I bought my three cylinder Deutz diesel, a F3L 1011F,
which is 38 kW and air/oil cooled for less than $1,000
on E-bay. I had to go pick it up, but it was a hell of
a deal. The air cooled Deutz engines have the PB&F
stamp of approval.
What the hell I'm going to do with it now is another
story, but I'm confident that I'll figure something
out. I'd like to have PB&F's assistance in the
figuring, but my schedule remains in flux. They had
some interesting ideas about a small tug...
Anyway, be damn careful when you are saving money.
Saving money in the wrong places can be really
expensive.
Some company that regularly advertised in Boats and
Harbors always had Chinese diesels with marine
transmissions for pretty low prices. Someone on the
group must subscribe to Boats & Harbors.
Phil Smith
At 04:47 PM 6/15/05, you wrote:
Between my wife and I, we weigh ~350 lbs.
I want to go fast enough to plane. I can go slow cheap in my 18' cedar canoe.
It has to be cheap, both to build and fit out, as well as to run.
Briggs has a 5hp 4-stroke for ~$700, that will use 2 quarts per hour at
full throttle. That's my ballpark for cheap.
All the lakes around here have a fair share of jet ski's & ski boats, so
enough freeboard to not be swamped by those is needed.
So, I'm looking for something small & light enough for 5hp to push on
plane, and with enough freeboard to keep the wakes outside where they belong.
Actually, according to Jim Rudholme's tests with the E-tek motor on a
Sneakeasy, it would just maybe do it, but that boat is way to long to get
in and out of my driveway.
Regards,
RonB
> > At the moment, I am looking more closely at the 15'6" Lake Launch #549.Length doesn't really matter, except as it relates to function.
> > RonB
>
>Lake Launch is a really cool boat, but a world different that Bee.
>
>Other than 16 feet length, you haven't mentioned your 'criteria'
>for choosing your boat.
Between my wife and I, we weigh ~350 lbs.
I want to go fast enough to plane. I can go slow cheap in my 18' cedar canoe.
It has to be cheap, both to build and fit out, as well as to run.
Briggs has a 5hp 4-stroke for ~$700, that will use 2 quarts per hour at
full throttle. That's my ballpark for cheap.
All the lakes around here have a fair share of jet ski's & ski boats, so
enough freeboard to not be swamped by those is needed.
So, I'm looking for something small & light enough for 5hp to push on
plane, and with enough freeboard to keep the wakes outside where they belong.
Actually, according to Jim Rudholme's tests with the E-tek motor on a
Sneakeasy, it would just maybe do it, but that boat is way to long to get
in and out of my driveway.
Regards,
RonB
> At the moment, I am looking more closely at the 15'6" Lake Launch #549.Lake Launch is a really cool boat, but a world different that Bee.
> RonB
Other than 16 feet length, you haven't mentioned your 'criteria'
for choosing your boat.
Not Bolger, but Jim Michalak's QT skiff might fit the bill very nicely.
I'm getting very interested in Robb White's "Grumman Sport Boat Improvement
Project" for about the same purpose myself.
Google either of these and you'll find them.
JB
Gool
I'm getting very interested in Robb White's "Grumman Sport Boat Improvement
Project" for about the same purpose myself.
Google either of these and you'll find them.
JB
Gool
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Butterfield" <ronb_5@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bee #581
> Thanks to everyone who replied with info on the Bee.
>
> I think it will be a bit too small for what I want to do, which is poke
> around nearby lakes with my wife.
>
> I am looking for something that will not overload the new Briggs 5hp
> outboard, but still be stable enough to not worry about ski-boat wakes.
>
> At the moment, I am looking more closely at the 15'6" Lake Launch #549.
> It's like a short version of the Sneakeasy. I've always liked the
> Sneakeasy, but it would require a 4x4 style lift kit in order to make it
in
> my driveway.
>
>
> Regards,
> RonB
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, Bee was designed as a half scale testAlso, 'Flying Cloud' #614
http://hallman.org/bolger/614/
...was a test boat in this sequence.
Thanks to everyone who replied with info on the Bee.
I think it will be a bit too small for what I want to do, which is poke
around nearby lakes with my wife.
I am looking for something that will not overload the new Briggs 5hp
outboard, but still be stable enough to not worry about ski-boat wakes.
At the moment, I am looking more closely at the 15'6" Lake Launch #549.
It's like a short version of the Sneakeasy. I've always liked the
Sneakeasy, but it would require a 4x4 style lift kit in order to make it in
my driveway.
Regards,
RonB
I think it will be a bit too small for what I want to do, which is poke
around nearby lakes with my wife.
I am looking for something that will not overload the new Briggs 5hp
outboard, but still be stable enough to not worry about ski-boat wakes.
At the moment, I am looking more closely at the 15'6" Lake Launch #549.
It's like a short version of the Sneakeasy. I've always liked the
Sneakeasy, but it would require a 4x4 style lift kit in order to make it in
my driveway.
Regards,
RonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ronatfbkdotcom" <ronb_5@e...> wrote:
was too small for my purpose. Bolger suggested raising the sides, I
have a letter somewhere.
You can have them for $25US if you email me,
DonB
> A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):I have unused plans and instructions for Bee. I decided in the end it
>
> What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
>
> What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
>
> Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
> photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
> or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
>
> Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
>
> Regards,
> RonB
was too small for my purpose. Bolger suggested raising the sides, I
have a letter somewhere.
You can have them for $25US if you email me,
DonB
Yes, Bee was designed as a half scale test for what became Microtrawler. My "$5" Bee plans came at that price because at the same time I bought Microtrawler plans.. I built the Microtrawler first, and still have it now, although I keep thinking I want to sell and build something else. I built MT in an open cockpit version, sans aft cabin, with no ill effects on the hull integrity. As the pilothouse from deckline up is just 1/4" ply there is no real structural need for it either. Although I can't see not having the pilothouse. It's such a wonderful hangout in hot, rainy, or windy weather...
The Bee I built on a lark, overbuilt it (which was a HUGE mistake), never had the correct outboard for it, and never had a use for it, so it was eventulyy cut up...
Rick
donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
I get the impression the #581 Bee is a "concept" boat. A cheap way to
prove the hull design, but not a serious work/fun boat. There are 3
scaled up versions, MicroTrawler, Hawkeye, and Retriever, that I'm
aware of. Bolger did something similar, deisigning a box keel Brick
to prove a concept.
It is a credit to the design that several of each of the 4 in the
stepchine sharpie series, including the Bee have been built.
There are pics around of a "Super Bee" a scale up that falls between
Bee and MicroTrawler sizewise. This was a builder modification, not a
Bolger design. I've thought to get MicroTrawler plans and build it as
an open boat, but I think the joinery is likely an important part of
the boat's strength. A better choice may be to get the Bee AND MT,
compare the designs and then build.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Bee I built on a lark, overbuilt it (which was a HUGE mistake), never had the correct outboard for it, and never had a use for it, so it was eventulyy cut up...
Rick
donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
I get the impression the #581 Bee is a "concept" boat. A cheap way to
prove the hull design, but not a serious work/fun boat. There are 3
scaled up versions, MicroTrawler, Hawkeye, and Retriever, that I'm
aware of. Bolger did something similar, deisigning a box keel Brick
to prove a concept.
It is a credit to the design that several of each of the 4 in the
stepchine sharpie series, including the Bee have been built.
There are pics around of a "Super Bee" a scale up that falls between
Bee and MicroTrawler sizewise. This was a builder modification, not a
Bolger design. I've thought to get MicroTrawler plans and build it as
an open boat, but I think the joinery is likely an important part of
the boat's strength. A better choice may be to get the Bee AND MT,
compare the designs and then build.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> prove the hull design, but not a serious work/fun boat. There are 3Also #583, Power Yawlboat 12' x 5' with a 6" step sharpie shoe
> scaled up versions, MicroTrawler, Hawkeye, and Retriever, that I'm
> aware of.
spec'ed for 25 hp.
I get the impression the #581 Bee is a "concept" boat. A cheap way to
prove the hull design, but not a serious work/fun boat. There are 3
scaled up versions, MicroTrawler, Hawkeye, and Retriever, that I'm
aware of. Bolger did something similar, deisigning a box keel Brick
to prove a concept.
It is a credit to the design that several of each of the 4 in the
stepchine sharpie series, including the Bee have been built.
There are pics around of a "Super Bee" a scale up that falls between
Bee and MicroTrawler sizewise. This was a builder modification, not a
Bolger design. I've thought to get MicroTrawler plans and build it as
an open boat, but I think the joinery is likely an important part of
the boat's strength. A better choice may be to get the Bee AND MT,
compare the designs and then build.
prove the hull design, but not a serious work/fun boat. There are 3
scaled up versions, MicroTrawler, Hawkeye, and Retriever, that I'm
aware of. Bolger did something similar, deisigning a box keel Brick
to prove a concept.
It is a credit to the design that several of each of the 4 in the
stepchine sharpie series, including the Bee have been built.
There are pics around of a "Super Bee" a scale up that falls between
Bee and MicroTrawler sizewise. This was a builder modification, not a
Bolger design. I've thought to get MicroTrawler plans and build it as
an open boat, but I think the joinery is likely an important part of
the boat's strength. A better choice may be to get the Bee AND MT,
compare the designs and then build.
Plans were $25 in the 1990 Common Sense Design Catalog, where it's
drawn with a 6hp outboard motor.
Howard
drawn with a 6hp outboard motor.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@y...> wrote:
> I built a Bee way back when the plans were first released. The plans
cost me $5.
I built a Bee way back when the plans were first released. The plans cost me $5. so you can imagine how long ago it was. I made the great mistake of using odd bits of scrap ply I had on hand, some as thick as 1/2" and also glassed inside and out, so had a hull way, way too heavy, probably 40 or 50 pounds more than designed. With that weight, plus me, my 4 hp would almost get the boat up on plane, but not quite. Very stable hull, and a good rowboat in windy conditions with the box keel and the low freeboard.. Everyone who saw it commented on the low freeboard. Almost sunk it once by sitting too close to an aft corner. No one ever offered to try it with a bigger outboard....
I have photos somewhere I'll post if I find them.
Rick
ronatfbkdotcom <ronb_5@...> wrote:
A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):
What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
Regards,
RonB
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have photos somewhere I'll post if I find them.
Rick
ronatfbkdotcom <ronb_5@...> wrote:
A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):
What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
Regards,
RonB
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ron,
If you go to:
http://www.geocities.com/howardstephenson/speedcalc.html
... you will see links to Excel spreadsheets that can be used to
estimate boat speed. The Frank Bailey one is probably the most
appropriate for your case, although determining waterline beam is a
piece of guesswork in the case of Bee's step hull: on the plane it's
about a third of the beam at rest.
You could define planing speed in knots as twice the square root of
waterline length in feet i.e. just over 5 kts.
Howard
If you go to:
http://www.geocities.com/howardstephenson/speedcalc.html
... you will see links to Excel spreadsheets that can be used to
estimate boat speed. The Frank Bailey one is probably the most
appropriate for your case, although determining waterline beam is a
piece of guesswork in the case of Bee's step hull: on the plane it's
about a third of the beam at rest.
You could define planing speed in knots as twice the square root of
waterline length in feet i.e. just over 5 kts.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ronatfbkdotcom" <ronb_5@e...> wrote:
> A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):
>
> What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
>
> What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
>
> Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
> photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
> or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
>
> Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
>
> Regards,
> RonB
> A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):I plugged the lines into Hulls.exe and found that a comfortable
>
> What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
max displacement is only 250 or 300 lbs, in my opinion, not enough.
I experimented with increasing freeboard, with notes, etc.. kept here
http://hallman.org/bolger/381/
> What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?I could only guess that a 9.9hp would plane it, I don't know really
> Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?You aren't just paying for 'plans' you are paying for
consultation with an expert designer and the rights
to build a boat of Bolger's design.
[Not that the aftermarket for backyard boats is worth much,]
but the resale value of a Bolger designed boat is definitely worth
+$100 more compared to a boat built without a well known designer.
A few questions regarding the Bee (minimum power step sharpie):
What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
Regards,
RonB
What is the maximum weight capacity of this boat?
What is the minimum hp to plane at that weight?
Could either a moderator or the poster take the pictures from the
photo area (shrunk for everyone else) and either email a copy to me,
or post them to the files area (viewable full-size by anyone).
Finally, are plans for a 7' boat really $100?
Regards,
RonB