Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe first, quick and dirty, then a Micro?

----- Original Message -----
> From: "mark" <planzman@y...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 2:20 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe first, quick and
dirty, then a
Micro?
>
>
> | Have you looked at a super brick? IT is fantastic
and may be the
> | third boat that I build. I am planning to start a
small pontoon
boat
> | this weekend to use on a nearby (less than 1/2
mile travel) for
> | fishing and evening cruises. Then I might build a
non Bolger
boat,
> | the Great Pelican to learn sailing with. This
boat should go
together
> | fast and give me something to put in the water
whild I am
building the
> | SB. I am amazed with the SB concept and wonder
how she sails.
She is
> | something like a Coleman pup up camper with out
the pop up. I
would




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.







___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemailhttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:


To Phil S. and Will S. ,

That little bit was written some time ago and Bill has
ressurected it from the mystery-archive land and posted it here in
error......a happy error I might add since it fetched up a slew of
very fond memories for me.Thanks Bill! and I am flattered too, Phil
and Will,by your kind words!

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,rambling fool,boat bum,consumer of fine consumables and
friend to le Moution Noir de Kingston,from along the blustery
St.Lawrence shores............

>
> Bruce,
> Every once in awhile,I get into one of those
> devilish states
> where,for the complete lack of anything more
> constructive to do,I head
> over to one of the more posh yacht clubs close by
> and feign a desire
> to overnight at the guest dock.The dockmaster,more
> accustomed to gin
> palaces,usually gives something of a smirk as he
> brusquely directs me
> to a spot at the furthest end of the quest
> dock.Fortunately for
> me,this puts me right behind the sterns of a row of
> obnoxious
> yachts.Due to the odd shape and style of my boat(
> the mighty
> Micro,LESTAT) we invariably draw a fair amount of
> attention and the
> occassional member will deign to actually stroll
> over to give us a
> closer look.Of course,he knows(and we too!) that his
> fellow members
> are all looking over and listening in the quite of
> the evening air to
> hear our exchange.After the usual round of
> pleasantries,with me
> playing the goofy nut explaining the flat square
> stem etc...,he
> predictably launches into some rot about proper
> boat
> shapes.Naturally,our snot-about-the docks has the
> proper boat shape as
> do most of his experienced fellow yachtsmen. With
> something like the
> look you would expect from some elder statesman
> annunciating on the
> pityful state of national health care,he offers the
> suggestion that I
> too should"get with it,Lad!". That's just about the
> time where my
> Pesky Crew pops her head up out the companionway
> hatch,and kindly
> enquires of me whether we should be having the'97
> Chateau de Rochforte
> or perhaps the Beaujolais Nouveau with supper
> tonight.Our SAD
> (snot-about-the-docks) smiles politely and reminds
> us that the club
> has its own rather impressive selection and that
> bringing your own
> bottle to the dining room is...er..ah...well not
> exactly permitted.Oh
> shucking away,I tell him that we won't be using the
> dining room but
> will instead eat on the boat.With arched eyebrows
> and barely contained
> amusement,SAD wonders out loud about the wisdom of
> mixing sandwiches
> and wine but gives a friendly chuckle and waddles
> down the dock
> mumbling something about long ago college stunts. In
> the
> background,Pesky and I can clearly hear the comments
> from the aft
> decks of the nearby yachts.Some of them are really
> mean
> spirited,suggesting that bums like us should go
> picnic elswhere
> blah,blah,blah.......
> Then in a flash,Pesky sets up the stove in the
> cockpit and begins
> getting the water boiling for pasta,the marinated 40
> clove
> garlic chicken brought from home is cooked over the
> second
> burner.While this is all going on,I set up our
> folding camp chairs and
> table on the dock.Next comes the linen table
> cloth,candles,real china
> plates,Waterford goblettes and Sterling silver
> utensils.As the mouth
> watering aromas drift through the yacht basin,I
> gently crank up the
> volume on our cassette player to better hear
> Handels"The Arrival of
> The Queen of Sheba"( I love Baroque and
> pasta!).Lighting the candles
> first,I then make a deliberate show of gently
> carressing the bottle
> before uncorking with the Swiss Army knife.The
> accompanying soft"pop"
> from the cork timed to be heard in the break after
> the 26th bar.
> With much fuss,Pesky dresses up the plates with
> steaming offerings
> to our stomaches.Sitting bolt upright in our
> chairs,we both make like
> we were at the Ritz,with much clinking of fork to
> plate and tinkling
> of glasses as toasts are rendered to friends and
> heros.
> Later on,well after sunset,we slowly put it all
> away after dealing
> with an un-usual number of after supper dock
> walkers.Having been
> appraised from both near and far,the membership
> feels secure that we
> are not such bad people afterall and many of the
> walkers,having come
> to the end of the dock before turning around, wish
> us a pleasant and
> good nights sleep.
> As Pesky and I watch,the lights on the row of
> yachts gradually go
> out.All is well in Snobland.
> And this is where I have developed an awkward
> appreciation for
> little 2 stroke outboards.Yessirree......nothing
> like that
> mechanical racket and blue smoke shortly after
> midnight to stop the
> snoring and late night groping of mistresses.In due
> time,we can always
> count on at least two blabber mouths to holler
> oaths and threats from
> their sterns.This will sometimes get me to pull a
> neat little 360 as I
> holler back,"Sorry,can't hear a fu**en word you're
> sayin'!" as we
> crank her wide open and escape out onto the darkness
> of the river.
> We usually find a nice spot by one of the islands to
> spend the
> night and just about laugh ourselves to
> sleep.Nothing like having way
> too much time on your hands!!!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan.........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <BllFs6@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: [bolger] Old Shoe first, quick and dirty, then a Micro?


> Hi all
>
> What a great group! Its gonna take awhile for me to sift through all the
> messages, but I can tell there is much good info and enthusiam here!
>
> Now some (many) questions....
>
> I dont expect anybody to answer ALL of these questions...anyones input of
> even one little detail would be greatly appreciated....and a short answer
is ok
> if the details have been discussed already....for example you could
answer
> "use 3/8 plywood of type XWZ" and I'll go dig up the details in old posts
> myself...
>
> Also, given the range of questions, it might be better to change the
headers
> depending the topic answered ie RE: Old Shoe first, plywood or RE: Old
Shoe
> first, hull speed...ect ect....
>
> Really interesting in sailing/cruising now that I have discovered boats
that
> are buildable at home, don't take 2000 hrs to build, don't cost a fortune
to
> run, and are something I can actually afford in the first place.
>
> Particularly interested in the Old Shoe and Micro designs.
>
> I note that almost every Micro owner just loves them and that anything
bad
> said about them is more of "you cant have everything in one package for
free"
> type than of the "here is a serious problem" type. Can the same be said
of
> Old Shoe and its owners?
>
> If I were to build an Old Shoe and was generally happy with its sailing
> characteristics and seaworthiness, would I find that the Micro was
generally
> pretty similiar (with the added bonus of a bit faster, alot more room, a
cabin
> etc etc). I do understand trailering, cost, set up etc etc would be
> significantly different, just wondering about how they compare "sailing"
wise.
>
> Would setting up an Old Shoe be significantly easier or faster than a
Micro?
> Particularly if its often a solo operation? And how hard/easy/fast/slow
> would it be?
>
> What is the realisitic (or optimum) payload for an Old Shoe? Bolger gives
> one number yet I have ran across a few reports that make it sound like
the
> whole Walton family could be in it and not sink or capsize.
>
> I ask about optimum payload because given the design it "looks" like if
the
> thing is very lightly loaded, your water line will not run the whole
length
> of the boat and you'll suffer from the old square rule hull speed "law".
> Though if that was an actual problem I guess I could just throw in some
removeable
> ballast...What is the "actual" hull speed for Old Shoe.... a 1.0 factor,
1.5
> or ????
>
> How many Hp would it take go hull speed in Old Shoe?
>
> Is the design/layout of Old shoe such that you could put in 2 deep cycle
> batteries of say about 75 pounds each (with perhaps some additional
construction
> for securing and isolating the batteries). Anybody used electic trolling
> motors on Old Shoe? What models and what kind of performance if so (Or
perhaps
> even data on using a Micro that way and "we" can scale from there).
>
> Since I'm kinda leaning towards building an Old Shoe as a possible
prelude
> to a Micro would the following be a bad idea? Take the Old Shoe lead keel
and
> redesign it so that Old Shoe has the same draft as the Micro...then after
> taking Old Shoe around the local area for awhile, I'd get a realistic
feel for
> how "limiting" the modest draft of the Micro is or isn't.
>
> I guess you could put the same amount of weight on the keel, but making
it
> deeper/taller would lower your center of gravity some (and making the
keel a
> bit more narrow as well), or you could have a lighter keel (making it
even
> more narrow) and keep the center of gravity in about the same location.
How
> much does the standard Old shoe depend on its keel for resisting
sideways
> motion in the water vs its heeling over on its "edge"? All in all, I'd be
happy
> with the same weight but taller/deeper keel if it increased stability
and/or
> performance (particularly in light winds) even if it costs me a bit of
> performance in very high/favorable winds...or in other words I rather be
able to
> always/more often be moving rather than getting that extra half knot or
so at the
> top end speed.
>
> What is cheeking? Is that when the plywood raises up from being exposed
to
> water/weather? It obviously looks bad, but if you had one Old Shoe with a
hull
> as smooth as a babies bottom, and one that was badly cheeked, could you
even
> tell the difference perfomance wise and if so what kind of penalty speed
> wise are we really talking about? I ask this because of the following.
>
> IFFF I actually build an Old Shoe, I want to do it the really CHEAP,
FAST,
> and EASY route. My theory is to get one under my feet FAST, then learn
what I
> like and dont like about it, figure out any mods/tweaking it needs
(though
> more of operational considerations rather than mods that actually change
the
> structural integrity or performance characteristics). From there I can
either
> build a much better built (or at least prettier/longer lasting) Old Shoe
# 2
> or perhaps even move up to a Micro. Then I can build at a more relaxed
pace
> and still have Old Shoe # 1 to play with in the mean time.
>
> Here is how I would use it...always trailered. Mostly day sails, a modest
> number of 2/3 dayers, and mayybeee one week long cruise a year. Around
here the
> only groundings you are gonna have are on fine sand or muck...pretty much
> zero in the way of rocks or hard bottoms to worry about here or major
tidal
> fluctuations. Plus I can baby the hull by not beaching it....a little
wading
> won't bother me any. I can also baby the hull buy having a well
built/designed
> trailer. So, the only part of the hull thats gonna see any regular abuse
is
> the bottom of the keel. I live in Pensacola, Florida, a pretty warm and
humid
> climate, but very often sunny rather than overcast for long periods of
time
> (if that information helps). I can also baby the boat by keeping it
properly
> covered, drained, and doing paint touch ups when required (I am pretty
good at
> taking care of things that need taking care of).
>
> So given that information....what would your recommendations for a quick,
> dirty, and cheap build be? Type of plywood? Epoxy or Polyester? Just
glass/tape
> the corners? Kind of paint? Can I get away with just painting the inside
as
> well? Even if the paint fails to fully protect the plywood, could I get
3/4
> decent years of use outa el cheapo if I use it/baby it as described
above? One
> thing I might think about "splurging wise" would to be to use thicker
pieces
> of "cheap, locally available" plywood given that the price increase for
> significantly thicker plywood is often pretty modest. A heavier boat is
also
> not? a problem as it would rarely have more than two rather light adults
and
> often just little old me at 130 pounds.
>
> So, your guys input on a quick and dirty build? And a time estimate for
> construction? Cost estimate (just for hull and supplies). I've got the
tools, am
> mechanically inclined, handy with the hands, decent with wood and glues
and
> screws, and if neccessary can force my self to "just build it" rather
than
> overpondering, waffling and trying to improve some thing as designed.
>
> Looks/cheecking/ and modest performance penalties are perfectly
acceptable,
> but structural/safety considerations deserve more thought. Though I would
> almost excusively be using the boat in relatively small, warm protected
waters,
> or very close to the shore when out in the gulf proper...... so long as I
> have flotation, a wet suit top, a few flares, and perhaps some diving
fins the
> boat could break apart and sink and I'd still have a good chance of
living to
> tell the tale.
>
> Actually, I'd kind of get a kick if the thing looked like crap but was
> structually sound and performed as advertised. Even thought of name for
the
> boat....."KNOT PRETTY" :)
>
> Well, thats more than enough for now!
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks in advance for any
input!
>
> take care
>
> Blll
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005
>
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@a... wrote:
> Since I'm kinda leaning towards building an Old Shoe as a possible
prelude
> to a Micro would the following be a bad idea? Take the Old Shoe lead
keel and
> redesign it so that Old Shoe has the same draft as the Micro...then
after
> taking Old Shoe around the local area for awhile, I'd get a
realistic feel for
> how "limiting" the modest draft of the Micro is or isn't.

> I never realized it until now, but the SuperBrick *is* almost

> size and layout to my Coleman pop-up camper! Camping in mine last

> was thinking what a great layout this would be for a boat.

> I never realized it until now, but the SuperBrick *is* almost

> size and layout to my Coleman pop-up camper! Camping in mine last

> was thinking what a great layout this would be for a boat. And I

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mark" <planzman@y...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 2:20 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe first, quick and dirty, then a

>
>
> | Have you looked at a super brick? IT is fantastic and may be the
> | third boat that I build. I am planning to start a small pontoon

> | this weekend to use on a nearby (less than 1/2 mile travel) for
> | fishing and evening cruises. Then I might build a non Bolger

> | the Great Pelican to learn sailing with. This boat should go

> | fast and give me something to put in the water whild I am

> | SB. I am amazed with the SB concept and wonder how she sails.

> | something like a Coleman pup up camper with out the pop up. I

> | like to take her to the gulf island and park her in the

> | the water and safely anchored) and use the pelican as an

> | the SB sorta has home base, a place to clean up, sleep, cook

> |
> | well this is my plan, whats yours?
> |
> | mark
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead

> | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,

> | - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip

> | - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,

> (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> | - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> | Yahoo! Groups Links
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |

----- Original Message -----
From: "mark" <planzman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe first, quick and dirty, then a Micro?


| Have you looked at a super brick? IT is fantastic and may be the
| third boat that I build. I am planning to start a small pontoon boat
| this weekend to use on a nearby (less than 1/2 mile travel) for
| fishing and evening cruises. Then I might build a non Bolger boat,
| the Great Pelican to learn sailing with. This boat should go together
| fast and give me something to put in the water whild I am building the
| SB. I am amazed with the SB concept and wonder how she sails. She is
| something like a Coleman pup up camper with out the pop up. I would
| like to take her to the gulf island and park her in the campground (in
| the water and safely anchored) and use the pelican as an explorer and
| the SB sorta has home base, a place to clean up, sleep, cook whatever.
|
| well this is my plan, whats yours?
|
| mark
|
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|