Storm Petrel, Little Auk and Kittiwake
On Jul 12, 2005, at 12:48, Howard Stephenson wrote:
http://www.swallowboats.com/storm-petrel.htm
I have always liked the Little Auk myself, it's only 65 pounds and
seems like an interesting (although fat) little boat, kind of like the
Storm Petrel but almost car top-able and even easier to build:
http://www.swallowboats.com/little-auk.htm
Then again, if Little Auk is just too small for you, or if you prefer
two sails for better directional control with less rudder, they also
offer the Kittiwake at only 10 pounds more:
http://www.swallowboats.com/kittiwake.htm
I'm not sure which one I like best, but I love the shape of all of
them. Double enders always attract me for some reason, as do boats
with their ends rising high above the mid-portion. The fact that they
have wide beams helps too. All these features together make me feel
that these little boats can handle big waves ... :)
James Greene
>> i found the storm petrel and seems a nice boat.Here's the link to the Storm Petrel:
http://www.swallowboats.com/storm-petrel.htm
I have always liked the Little Auk myself, it's only 65 pounds and
seems like an interesting (although fat) little boat, kind of like the
Storm Petrel but almost car top-able and even easier to build:
http://www.swallowboats.com/little-auk.htm
Then again, if Little Auk is just too small for you, or if you prefer
two sails for better directional control with less rudder, they also
offer the Kittiwake at only 10 pounds more:
http://www.swallowboats.com/kittiwake.htm
I'm not sure which one I like best, but I love the shape of all of
them. Double enders always attract me for some reason, as do boats
with their ends rising high above the mid-portion. The fact that they
have wide beams helps too. All these features together make me feel
that these little boats can handle big waves ... :)
James Greene
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Gauthier(owner builder of Le Cabotin) who tells me that Jean and Gaby
are in the last minute "rush" of getting all the little bits and
pieces together prior to launch.Mid-july was a hoped for date.I'll
have to call Jean and make sure I don't miss the launch party!!!And
I'll even take pictures :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,experiencing a different sort of rapture with
Windermere.....
> I believe "le Cabotin" is an upgraded version of Loose Moose. Somethey
> photos are available here. Being built in Quebec and perhaps Peter
> Lenihan or Bruce Hector might have some updated information since
> parlez vous?Co-incidently, I was just speaking with a mutual friend of Jean
Gauthier(owner builder of Le Cabotin) who tells me that Jean and Gaby
are in the last minute "rush" of getting all the little bits and
pieces together prior to launch.Mid-july was a hoped for date.I'll
have to call Jean and make sure I don't miss the launch party!!!And
I'll even take pictures :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,experiencing a different sort of rapture with
Windermere.....
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Gauthier(owner builder of Le Cabotin) who tells me that Jean and Gaby
are in the last minute "rush" of getting all the little bits and
pieces together prior to launch.Mid-july was a hoped for date.I'll
have to call Jean and make sure I don't miss the launch party!!!And
I'll even take pictures :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,experiencing a different sort of rapture with
Windermere.....
> I believe "le Cabotin" is an upgraded version of Loose Moose. Somethey
> photos are available here. Being built in Quebec and perhaps Peter
> Lenihan or Bruce Hector might have some updated information since
> parlez vous?Co-incidently, I was just speaking with a mutual friend of Jean
Gauthier(owner builder of Le Cabotin) who tells me that Jean and Gaby
are in the last minute "rush" of getting all the little bits and
pieces together prior to launch.Mid-july was a hoped for date.I'll
have to call Jean and make sure I don't miss the launch party!!!And
I'll even take pictures :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,experiencing a different sort of rapture with
Windermere.....
This is Jean et Gaby's site on the building of Le Cabotin, Bolgers
improved AS39.
http://cf.geocities.com/lecabotin/
Its all in french, but clic on the varios hyperlinks to see lots of
pretty pics.
I haven't spoken to Jean for over a year, but he was showing us his
plans for Fast Brick in Sept/03.
I hope he brings one.
Bruce Hector
improved AS39.
http://cf.geocities.com/lecabotin/
Its all in french, but clic on the varios hyperlinks to see lots of
pretty pics.
I haven't spoken to Jean for over a year, but he was showing us his
plans for Fast Brick in Sept/03.
I hope he brings one.
Bruce Hector
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
photos are available here. Being built in Quebec and perhaps Peter
Lenihan or Bruce Hector might have some updated information since they
parlez vous?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/le%20Cabotin%202003/
Can't find the cartoons though. It is interesting from the point that
it has a couple of Fast Bricks for lifeboats I believe. And perhaps
one will be ready for Kingston Bruce?
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> For LM II see:I believe "le Cabotin" is an upgraded version of Loose Moose. Some
>
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm
>
> ... and possibly elsewhere.
>
> Howard
>
photos are available here. Being built in Quebec and perhaps Peter
Lenihan or Bruce Hector might have some updated information since they
parlez vous?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/le%20Cabotin%202003/
Can't find the cartoons though. It is interesting from the point that
it has a couple of Fast Bricks for lifeboats I believe. And perhaps
one will be ready for Kingston Bruce?
Cheers, Nels
For LM II see:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm
... and possibly elsewhere.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm
... and possibly elsewhere.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
> Have had a search on google
> could not find bolger col hassler. nor loose moose II
For Col Hasler see post no 44456 in this Group.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
> Have had a search on google
>
> could not find bolger col hassler. nor loose moose II
>
> i found the storm petrel and seems a nice boat.
>
> Peter E.
Have had a search on google
could not find bolger col hassler. nor loose moose II
i found the storm petrel and seems a nice boat.
Peter E.
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...> wrote:
could not find bolger col hassler. nor loose moose II
i found the storm petrel and seems a nice boat.
Peter E.
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for all your input,
>
> I have been away for a few days thus no reply until now.
>
> Information is very useful. Design for a capable, cheap inexpensive
> small cruiser is something that is a long term proposition, not
> something looking for at moment.
>
> With 700 designs it is hard to know where to start with bolger. Yes I
> know there is a database, but it lacks links, and lacks photos.
> Ideally a person would make a database with these features added so
> that a person could sort boats by lenght, or displacement and by type
> and see a quick skecth. But all this takes a lot of work I know. No I
> am not volunteering, even though I know a lot about web database
> programming.
>
> Anyone want to write a book with 700 designs in it?
>
> Peter Evans
>
>
> -- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
> wrote:
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > hi all,
> > > > Someone I met who had a micro
> > >Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water
> > > sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
> > > seaworthy.
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --
> > > > So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in
> > > > a chop as bad as
> > > > was commented. Which Bolger designs would be
> > > > suitable for blue water
> > > > sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water
> > > > cruiser that is also
> > > > seaworthy.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The Col. Hassler is probably the best as in most
> > > likely to get you across an ocean in relative comfort
> > > and excellent safety of PB&F's small designs.
> > >
> > > Tahiti will get you accross oceans in good comfort and
> > > excellent safety but you won't get to sail. Tahiti is
> > > a motor boat. One should read Beebe's Voyaging Under
> > > Power to learn about the advantages of crossing oceans
> > > under power rather than under sail. Powering may be
> > > less expensive too.
> > >
> > > Loose Moose II and her cousins have crossed oceans, or
> > > at least the Atlantic, several times.
> > >
> > > Phil Smith
> >
> > Peter,
> > if you don't want to cruise real far then maybe 'Storm Petrel',
> > followed by 'His and Her Schooner' satisfy your criteria
> > of "cheapest, blue water cruiser... also seaworthy".
> >
> > Storm Petrel plans from PB&F ~US$50. "Modest performance", but in
> > one case at least a larger sail plan was provided. See a PB article
> > at Chuck Merrell's archive site:
> >http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
> >
> > 'His and Her Schooner' (aka 'Singlehand Schooner') plans from PB&F
> > ~US$100. Harold Payson sells them too for US$35:
> >http://www.instantboats.com/images/sschooner.jpg
> >
> > Write to PB&F with your explicit criteria and I'm sure fairly soon
> > you'll have a suggested answer from the designer himself including
> > study material selected from a design archive of over 500+. Let us
> > know how you go.
> >
> > graeme
Thanks for all your input,
I have been away for a few days thus no reply until now.
Information is very useful. Design for a capable, cheap inexpensive
small cruiser is something that is a long term proposition, not
something looking for at moment.
With 700 designs it is hard to know where to start with bolger. Yes I
know there is a database, but it lacks links, and lacks photos.
Ideally a person would make a database with these features added so
that a person could sort boats by lenght, or displacement and by type
and see a quick skecth. But all this takes a lot of work I know. No I
am not volunteering, even though I know a lot about web database
programming.
Anyone want to write a book with 700 designs in it?
Peter Evans
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
wrote:
I have been away for a few days thus no reply until now.
Information is very useful. Design for a capable, cheap inexpensive
small cruiser is something that is a long term proposition, not
something looking for at moment.
With 700 designs it is hard to know where to start with bolger. Yes I
know there is a database, but it lacks links, and lacks photos.
Ideally a person would make a database with these features added so
that a person could sort boats by lenght, or displacement and by type
and see a quick skecth. But all this takes a lot of work I know. No I
am not volunteering, even though I know a lot about web database
programming.
Anyone want to write a book with 700 designs in it?
Peter Evans
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
> wrote:
> > hi all,
> > > Someone I met who had a micro
> >Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water
> > sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
> > seaworthy.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> >
> > > --
> > > So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in
> > > a chop as bad as
> > > was commented. Which Bolger designs would be
> > > suitable for blue water
> > > sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water
> > > cruiser that is also
> > > seaworthy.
> > >
> >
> > The Col. Hassler is probably the best as in most
> > likely to get you across an ocean in relative comfort
> > and excellent safety of PB&F's small designs.
> >
> > Tahiti will get you accross oceans in good comfort and
> > excellent safety but you won't get to sail. Tahiti is
> > a motor boat. One should read Beebe's Voyaging Under
> > Power to learn about the advantages of crossing oceans
> > under power rather than under sail. Powering may be
> > less expensive too.
> >
> > Loose Moose II and her cousins have crossed oceans, or
> > at least the Atlantic, several times.
> >
> > Phil Smith
>
> Peter,
> if you don't want to cruise real far then maybe 'Storm Petrel',
> followed by 'His and Her Schooner' satisfy your criteria
> of "cheapest, blue water cruiser... also seaworthy".
>
> Storm Petrel plans from PB&F ~US$50. "Modest performance", but in
> one case at least a larger sail plan was provided. See a PB article
> at Chuck Merrell's archive site:
>http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
>
> 'His and Her Schooner' (aka 'Singlehand Schooner') plans from PB&F
> ~US$100. Harold Payson sells them too for US$35:
>http://www.instantboats.com/images/sschooner.jpg
>
> Write to PB&F with your explicit criteria and I'm sure fairly soon
> you'll have a suggested answer from the designer himself including
> study material selected from a design archive of over 500+. Let us
> know how you go.
>
> graeme
Web site on building a Storm Petrel
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/
---snip---
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/
---snip---
>Peter,
>if you don't want to cruise real far then maybe 'Storm Petrel',
>followed by 'His and Her Schooner' satisfy your criteria
>of "cheapest, blue water cruiser... also seaworthy".
>
>Storm Petrel plans from PB&F ~US$50. "Modest performance", but in
>one case at least a larger sail plan was provided. See a PB article
>at Chuck Merrell's archive site:
>http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
>
>'His and Her Schooner' (aka 'Singlehand Schooner') plans from PB&F
>~US$100. Harold Payson sells them too for US$35:
>http://www.instantboats.com/images/sschooner.jpg
>
>Write to PB&F with your explicit criteria and I'm sure fairly soon
>you'll have a suggested answer from the designer himself including
>study material selected from a design archive of over 500+. Let us
>know how you go.
>
>graeme
>
>
>
>
<Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water sailing. What
would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also seaworthy.> [?]
~snip~
I vote for Seabird 86.
Paul
would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also seaworthy.> [?]
~snip~
I vote for Seabird 86.
Paul
It's Hasler rather than Hassler. Bruce Hallman has posted pictures of
the carboard scale model he made here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/203372942WjJNoW
You'll get dimesions etc. by searching the Bolger design list that is
one of the databases belonging to this Group.
Howard
the carboard scale model he made here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/203372942WjJNoW
You'll get dimesions etc. by searching the Bolger design list that is
one of the databases belonging to this Group.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <kayaker37@h...> wrote:
>
> I can't find any mention of the Col. Hassler anywhere. Is there a pic
> or description somewhere?
I can't find any mention of the Col. Hassler anywhere. Is there a pic
or description somewhere?
Thanks,
Paul
or description somewhere?
Thanks,
Paul
> The Col. Hassler is probably the best as in most
> likely to get you across an ocean in relative comfort
> and excellent safety of PB&F's small designs.
> Phil Smith
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
wrote:
> hi all,
> > Someone I met who had a micro
>Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water
> sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
> seaworthy.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
>
> > --
> > So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in
> > a chop as bad as
> > was commented. Which Bolger designs would be
> > suitable for blue water
> > sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water
> > cruiser that is also
> > seaworthy.
> >
>
> The Col. Hassler is probably the best as in most
> likely to get you across an ocean in relative comfort
> and excellent safety of PB&F's small designs.
>
> Tahiti will get you accross oceans in good comfort and
> excellent safety but you won't get to sail. Tahiti is
> a motor boat. One should read Beebe's Voyaging Under
> Power to learn about the advantages of crossing oceans
> under power rather than under sail. Powering may be
> less expensive too.
>
> Loose Moose II and her cousins have crossed oceans, or
> at least the Atlantic, several times.
>
> Phil Smith
Peter,
if you don't want to cruise real far then maybe 'Storm Petrel',
followed by 'His and Her Schooner' satisfy your criteria
of "cheapest, blue water cruiser... also seaworthy".
Storm Petrel plans from PB&F ~US$50. "Modest performance", but in
one case at least a larger sail plan was provided. See a PB article
at Chuck Merrell's archive site:
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
'His and Her Schooner' (aka 'Singlehand Schooner') plans from PB&F
~US$100. Harold Payson sells them too for US$35:
http://www.instantboats.com/images/sschooner.jpg
Write to PB&F with your explicit criteria and I'm sure fairly soon
you'll have a suggested answer from the designer himself including
study material selected from a design archive of over 500+. Let us
know how you go.
graeme
Yes, that expression is common enough to describe a keel that is
separate from the body of the hull (but not necesarily shallow),
salient meaning "something that projects outward or upward" -- or
downward too, I guess.
Howard
separate from the body of the hull (but not necesarily shallow),
salient meaning "something that projects outward or upward" -- or
downward too, I guess.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > I wonder what Phil calls it?
>
> I recall that Bolger calls the Micro type of 'fin' keel
> a salient keel. Though my memory is foggy about where
> I read this. Sailboats that have it have the ability to make
> windward progress in shallow water.
> I wonder what Phil calls it?I recall that Bolger calls the Micro type of 'fin' keel
a salient keel. Though my memory is foggy about where
I read this. Sailboats that have it have the ability to make
windward progress in shallow water.
> --The Col. Hassler is probably the best as in most
> So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in
> a chop as bad as
> was commented. Which Bolger designs would be
> suitable for blue water
> sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water
> cruiser that is also
> seaworthy.
>
likely to get you across an ocean in relative comfort
and excellent safety of PB&F's small designs.
Tahiti will get you accross oceans in good comfort and
excellent safety but you won't get to sail. Tahiti is
a motor boat. One should read Beebe's Voyaging Under
Power to learn about the advantages of crossing oceans
under power rather than under sail. Powering may be
less expensive too.
Loose Moose II and her cousins have crossed oceans, or
at least the Atlantic, several times.
Phil Smith
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
aspect ratio fin and salient keels from an early newsletter:
http://tinyurl.com/ddqbd
graeme
wrote:
> hi all,See J Michalak's clarrification of the hydrodynamics of the high
>
> Someone I met who had a micro said it was awful in a chop and just
> would not make progress to windward. He fitted a fin keel in order to
> improve upwind performance and this worked well.
aspect ratio fin and salient keels from an early newsletter:
http://tinyurl.com/ddqbd
graeme
... and I was giving away my extreme old age :-{|> (white moustache
and beard).
Bolger's chapter on Micro in BWAOM just mentions a shallow keel.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
and beard).
Bolger's chapter on Micro in BWAOM just mentions a shallow keel.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> Fair enough,Howard. I suppose I was giving away my youth in adhering
> to a more"modern"(à la Google),definition of a fin-keel ;-)
> I wonder what Phil calls it?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
to a more"modern"(à la Google),definition of a fin-keel ;-)
I wonder what Phil calls it?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from along the darkening,muggy,flea-bitten shores of the
St.Lawrence.............
wrote:
> Peter, it's all a matter of semantics, isn't it?Fair enough,Howard. I suppose I was giving away my youth in adhering
to a more"modern"(à la Google),definition of a fin-keel ;-)
I wonder what Phil calls it?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from along the darkening,muggy,flea-bitten shores of the
St.Lawrence.............
Peter, it's all a matter of semantics, isn't it? I hesitated before
making that statement. SInce then I've consulted a few sources that
support my understanding of the term, and a few that don't.
For example, Uffa Fox's description of the 12-metre "Devonia" in
his "Sailing, Seamenship and Yacht Construction" (published 1934 and
one of my treasures) talks about its lead keel and fin. The fin is
built-down from the body of the hull, with an aspect ratio of about
1:3 (not 3:1) and the rudder is attached to the aft end of it, as is
Micro's. The rudderpost is almost at the aft end of the waterline, as
is Micro's. The keel is cut-away (shallower) forward, as is Micro's,
Micro's fin is not built-down, but it has roughly the same aspect
ratio as Devonia's fin. Many fish have similarly low-aspect-ratio
dorsal fins.
Here is a modern definition from an online thesaurus:
"A projection downward from the keel of a yacht, resembling in shape
the fin of a fish, though often with a cigar-shaped bulb of lead at
the bottom, and generally made of metal. Its use is to ballast the
boat and also to enable her to sail close to the wind and to make the
least possible leeway by offering great resistance to lateral motion
through the water." I reckon the fin keel of a Micro fits that
definition, although it doesn't have a bulb and it's not all-metal.
On the other hand, a Google search indicates a lot of usage of the
term to mean a fairly high-aspect-ratio device fixed to the bottom of
the hull, with a separate rudder aft of it. The term "full keel" seems
to be used to describe something like Micro's, or Devonia's.
Call me old-fashioned, but I'm with Uffa Fox on this, because it
indicates the function of a fin keel: to provide lateral resistance
through hydrodynamic action, as well as providing a place to put
ballast where it will have the greatest benefit.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
making that statement. SInce then I've consulted a few sources that
support my understanding of the term, and a few that don't.
For example, Uffa Fox's description of the 12-metre "Devonia" in
his "Sailing, Seamenship and Yacht Construction" (published 1934 and
one of my treasures) talks about its lead keel and fin. The fin is
built-down from the body of the hull, with an aspect ratio of about
1:3 (not 3:1) and the rudder is attached to the aft end of it, as is
Micro's. The rudderpost is almost at the aft end of the waterline, as
is Micro's. The keel is cut-away (shallower) forward, as is Micro's,
Micro's fin is not built-down, but it has roughly the same aspect
ratio as Devonia's fin. Many fish have similarly low-aspect-ratio
dorsal fins.
Here is a modern definition from an online thesaurus:
"A projection downward from the keel of a yacht, resembling in shape
the fin of a fish, though often with a cigar-shaped bulb of lead at
the bottom, and generally made of metal. Its use is to ballast the
boat and also to enable her to sail close to the wind and to make the
least possible leeway by offering great resistance to lateral motion
through the water." I reckon the fin keel of a Micro fits that
definition, although it doesn't have a bulb and it's not all-metal.
On the other hand, a Google search indicates a lot of usage of the
term to mean a fairly high-aspect-ratio device fixed to the bottom of
the hull, with a separate rudder aft of it. The term "full keel" seems
to be used to describe something like Micro's, or Devonia's.
Call me old-fashioned, but I'm with Uffa Fox on this, because it
indicates the function of a fin keel: to provide lateral resistance
through hydrodynamic action, as well as providing a place to put
ballast where it will have the greatest benefit.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
>
> By the
> > way, the standard Micro has a fin keel --
>
> Hmmmm......not too sure of that one.A shallow full length keel
> perhaps,but not a fin keel to my understanding of these things:-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
By the
perhaps,but not a fin keel to my understanding of these things:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who was never dissappointed with Micros' performance
over the years,blow high,blow low, from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence..........
By the
> way, the standard Micro has a fin keel --Hmmmm......not too sure of that one.A shallow full length keel
perhaps,but not a fin keel to my understanding of these things:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who was never dissappointed with Micros' performance
over the years,blow high,blow low, from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence..........
Having had one experience of a Micro in a 'moderate' sea which most of
my East Coast sailing friends said was the limit of their 26ft boat
was very interesting. Down wind I was very happy but the rig does
rattle around as the chop has its effect. Windward was poor. I was
doing only 1 knot with the tide but in a quatering choppy sea. This
meant that I had to resort to motor-sailing to get to where I needed
to be before the tide joined forces with the wind and my 1 knot became
-1 or -2 knots while facing forwards.
Motor-sailing was more comfortable than just motoring as the hull
seemed to climb the waves very well and did not crash as much with
some lean. IN the end I dropped the main and used the mizzen as a
steering device hiding behind the cuddy as the water came over the
top. Going directly into the wind the mizzen sheet is as effective as
the rudder at keeping you straight. I will think next winter of a dodger!
The effect of the chop seemed to be to take all speed off when I hit a
wave any where near head on. I had thought the bluff bow would cause
the problem, but I found that the bow had started to rise before it
dug in and the main stopping happened when the forward part of the
underneath of the hull hit the on coming wave with accompanying
splashes over the deck.
At no time did I feel the little craft would not get me home. I felt
incredibly safe as she rose with each wave and slide into the path of
the next. I knoew she would bob up and the confidence this gave me
was a real inspiration to take the boat to sea more often. I did find
that sitting on a mooring in very choppy weather to be a fast recipe
for seasickness as she rolled and pitched and I found that lying on
the deck in the wind to be the only safe place!
Going with the wind and waves she loved to surf, but at the same time
I found it incredible hard not to broach. We have a bar in front of
the River Deben which is has small breakers at low tide. I should
have been able to get in without touching the bottom, but an error on
my part meant I clipped the shingle. But surfing into the narrow
channel meant I had to work hard to stay in the channel as the boat
tried to round up into the wind. This could have been because I had
the mizzen up and set tight. Who knows any way the day before with a
less lumpy sea I had out paced several other downwind as she surfed
the swell. A very satisfying feeling.
You may have gathered that I like my little boat lots!
Martin - proud owner of Applecross
my East Coast sailing friends said was the limit of their 26ft boat
was very interesting. Down wind I was very happy but the rig does
rattle around as the chop has its effect. Windward was poor. I was
doing only 1 knot with the tide but in a quatering choppy sea. This
meant that I had to resort to motor-sailing to get to where I needed
to be before the tide joined forces with the wind and my 1 knot became
-1 or -2 knots while facing forwards.
Motor-sailing was more comfortable than just motoring as the hull
seemed to climb the waves very well and did not crash as much with
some lean. IN the end I dropped the main and used the mizzen as a
steering device hiding behind the cuddy as the water came over the
top. Going directly into the wind the mizzen sheet is as effective as
the rudder at keeping you straight. I will think next winter of a dodger!
The effect of the chop seemed to be to take all speed off when I hit a
wave any where near head on. I had thought the bluff bow would cause
the problem, but I found that the bow had started to rise before it
dug in and the main stopping happened when the forward part of the
underneath of the hull hit the on coming wave with accompanying
splashes over the deck.
At no time did I feel the little craft would not get me home. I felt
incredibly safe as she rose with each wave and slide into the path of
the next. I knoew she would bob up and the confidence this gave me
was a real inspiration to take the boat to sea more often. I did find
that sitting on a mooring in very choppy weather to be a fast recipe
for seasickness as she rolled and pitched and I found that lying on
the deck in the wind to be the only safe place!
Going with the wind and waves she loved to surf, but at the same time
I found it incredible hard not to broach. We have a bar in front of
the River Deben which is has small breakers at low tide. I should
have been able to get in without touching the bottom, but an error on
my part meant I clipped the shingle. But surfing into the narrow
channel meant I had to work hard to stay in the channel as the boat
tried to round up into the wind. This could have been because I had
the mizzen up and set tight. Who knows any way the day before with a
less lumpy sea I had out paced several other downwind as she surfed
the swell. A very satisfying feeling.
You may have gathered that I like my little boat lots!
Martin - proud owner of Applecross
Many say that a shallow hull is safer in extreme conditions because
the hull is able to slide sideways with the wind and waves whereas
with a deep hull the keel is in deeper water that is not moving as
fast. The hull trips on the keel and is knocked down or capsizes.
A deeper fin should improve windward performance and perhaps add to
safety by allowing the boat to get away from a lee shore. But a boat
with of Micro's size and design characteristics, even with a deeper
fin keel, is not going to make headway in a storm anyway. By the
way, the standard Micro has a fin keel -- I guess you are talking
about a deeper one than as designed.
High freeboard helps to make a boat less likely to capsize, so it is
probably a safety feature in extreme conditions -- think of a
lifeboat (the rescue kind, not the one that is launched from a ship
in distress). But high freeboard does increase windage and would
therefore be detrimental to windward performance in moderate
conditions.
There are many Bolger designs suitable for blue-water sailing. If
you give us a little more detail about your requirements, I'm sure
there will be an avalanche of suggestions about which Bolger design
would meet your needs.
Disclaimer: these thoughts are based on no practical experience with
Micro and, fortunately, no experience of being at sea in a small
boat in extreme conditions.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
the hull is able to slide sideways with the wind and waves whereas
with a deep hull the keel is in deeper water that is not moving as
fast. The hull trips on the keel and is knocked down or capsizes.
A deeper fin should improve windward performance and perhaps add to
safety by allowing the boat to get away from a lee shore. But a boat
with of Micro's size and design characteristics, even with a deeper
fin keel, is not going to make headway in a storm anyway. By the
way, the standard Micro has a fin keel -- I guess you are talking
about a deeper one than as designed.
High freeboard helps to make a boat less likely to capsize, so it is
probably a safety feature in extreme conditions -- think of a
lifeboat (the rescue kind, not the one that is launched from a ship
in distress). But high freeboard does increase windage and would
therefore be detrimental to windward performance in moderate
conditions.
There are many Bolger designs suitable for blue-water sailing. If
you give us a little more detail about your requirements, I'm sure
there will be an avalanche of suggestions about which Bolger design
would meet your needs.
Disclaimer: these thoughts are based on no practical experience with
Micro and, fortunately, no experience of being at sea in a small
boat in extreme conditions.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "peterevans_33" <peterevans_33@y...>
wrote:
> hi all,to
>
> Someone I met who had a micro said it was awful in a chop and just
> would not make progress to windward. He fitted a fin keel in order
> improve upwind performance and this worked well.freeboard
>
> I also notice that many Bolger designs have high topsides,
> and have little area under the waterline due to their light weight.as
> Was wondering if this is bad in awful weather.
>
> --
> So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in a chop as bad
> was commented. Which Bolger designs would be suitable for bluewater
> sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
> seaworthy.
>>Someone I met who had a micro said it was awful in a chop and justwould not make progress to windward. He fitted a fin keel in order to
improve upwind performance and this worked well.>>
This is true to some extent of all sailing boats; but flat bottomed ones seem to fare worse than most in this respect. I don't know about the effect of a fin keel, except that it probably has a lower stalling speed than the long keel that Micro has.
>>I also notice that many Bolger designs have high topsides, freeboardand have little area under the waterline due to their light weight.
Was wondering if this is bad in awful weather.>>
This has been debated many times, with Bolger stoutly defending his shallow draft/reserve buoyancy philosophy. You pays your money and takes your choice, I'm afraid. One point, though - some of Bolger's boats aren't that light - it's more the underwater shape (more or less flat bottomed) than lack of displacement that gives the shallow draft. A bit like Thames Barges in that respect.
Bill Samson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hi all,
Someone I met who had a micro said it was awful in a chop and just
would not make progress to windward. He fitted a fin keel in order to
improve upwind performance and this worked well.
I also notice that many Bolger designs have high topsides, freeboard
and have little area under the waterline due to their light weight.
Was wondering if this is bad in awful weather.
--
So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in a chop as bad as
was commented. Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water
sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
seaworthy.
Yes I know that seaworthy is a bit imprecise and crew skills mean a
lot. Boat that springs to mind as very seaworthy and affordable is a
McNaughton Penny, is sailed from within hull. Please no posts like,
this fellow I an aware of sailed Atlantic in 8ft dingy... I am not mad
thanks.
Peter E.
Someone I met who had a micro said it was awful in a chop and just
would not make progress to windward. He fitted a fin keel in order to
improve upwind performance and this worked well.
I also notice that many Bolger designs have high topsides, freeboard
and have little area under the waterline due to their light weight.
Was wondering if this is bad in awful weather.
--
So the questions are, is micro upwind performace in a chop as bad as
was commented. Which Bolger designs would be suitable for blue water
sailing. What would be the cheapest blue water cruiser that is also
seaworthy.
Yes I know that seaworthy is a bit imprecise and crew skills mean a
lot. Boat that springs to mind as very seaworthy and affordable is a
McNaughton Penny, is sailed from within hull. Please no posts like,
this fellow I an aware of sailed Atlantic in 8ft dingy... I am not mad
thanks.
Peter E.