Re: [bolger] Where to start...
Sara, everyone here is suggesting you start small, as
with an Elegant Punt, as a warm-up for a Long Micro.
That is certianly prudent advice, but as you do please
don't get the dicouraging idea that your inevitable
problems with a small boat will be magnified many
times on a large one. As someone who has built both
an Elegant Punt and a large Bolger boat, if you can
build one, you can build the other. In some ways, the
small boat is more difficult, with its stiff curves in
the planking, chines, rub rails etc. The bigger boat
has a lot of steps, but I don't think any are harder
than planking an EP or similar (well, I've never
poured a big lead keel). Cruising in a boat you have
built yourself is awfully doggone satisfying, if you
are so inclined. Sam
--- "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@...> wrote:
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with an Elegant Punt, as a warm-up for a Long Micro.
That is certianly prudent advice, but as you do please
don't get the dicouraging idea that your inevitable
problems with a small boat will be magnified many
times on a large one. As someone who has built both
an Elegant Punt and a large Bolger boat, if you can
build one, you can build the other. In some ways, the
small boat is more difficult, with its stiff curves in
the planking, chines, rub rails etc. The bigger boat
has a lot of steps, but I don't think any are harder
than planking an EP or similar (well, I've never
poured a big lead keel). Cruising in a boat you have
built yourself is awfully doggone satisfying, if you
are so inclined. Sam
--- "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@...> wrote:
> Sara--Boatbuilding requires many skills. Each skill__________________________________________________
> can be mastered, but
> each skill has a learning curve. If you are like
> me, learning curves
> involve making mistakes, and I think it is prudent
> to make mistakes on as
> small a project as possible.
>
> A long Micro is a flat bottomed plywood pram with a
> fixed keel. Bolger's
> Elegant Punt is a similiar shape and requires some
> of the skills necessary
> to build Long Micro (Measuring and cuttig out parts,
> beveling frames/
> transoms, etc) but only uses two sheets of plywood
> I'd start with one of
> those to build my skills and then move on to a
> bigger boat. The Elegant
> Punt can be used as a dinghy when you finish your
> Long Micro.
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Sara" <coxwain42@y...> wrote:
...........
> I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
> to begin. Is it wiser to
> start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
> sharpie, or would I be
> taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
> my heart.
>
> Sara
Sara,
My guess is a June Bug, designed by Bolger and sold by Payson would be
a great start. It sails and rows, is not tiny or lacking in practical
sailing ability. It could go together in a few weekends, give you
experience with building a Bolger design, and leave you with a fun
boat before you move on to the Long Micro.
http://www.instantboats.com/
Sara--Boatbuilding requires many skills. Each skill can be mastered, but
each skill has a learning curve. If you are like me, learning curves
involve making mistakes, and I think it is prudent to make mistakes on as
small a project as possible.
A long Micro is a flat bottomed plywood pram with a fixed keel. Bolger's
Elegant Punt is a similiar shape and requires some of the skills necessary
to build Long Micro (Measuring and cuttig out parts, beveling frames/
transoms, etc) but only uses two sheets of plywood I'd start with one of
those to build my skills and then move on to a bigger boat. The Elegant
Punt can be used as a dinghy when you finish your Long Micro.
John T
each skill has a learning curve. If you are like me, learning curves
involve making mistakes, and I think it is prudent to make mistakes on as
small a project as possible.
A long Micro is a flat bottomed plywood pram with a fixed keel. Bolger's
Elegant Punt is a similiar shape and requires some of the skills necessary
to build Long Micro (Measuring and cuttig out parts, beveling frames/
transoms, etc) but only uses two sheets of plywood I'd start with one of
those to build my skills and then move on to a bigger boat. The Elegant
Punt can be used as a dinghy when you finish your Long Micro.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Where to start...
> > I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
> > to begin.
> > Sara
>
> Building a few small boats first can ultimately save you 'total time
spent'
> on a large boat project because the 'learning mistakes' are smaller.
>
> Also, starting out by make a making a model of a larger boat can
> save 'total time spent' if it helps you devise the most effecient
> sequencing scheme. [Or if it helps you realize that perhaps that
> larger boat might not be the best choice for *you*.]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/44 - Release Date: 7/8/2005
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>
wrote:
intelligent, thoughtful, that there should be a way to establish an
award or some kind as an encouragement for this high level of
authorship. I can at least say: Thank you David Graybeal for your
response to "Sara". John H. Wright
**********
John,
Awwww Shuuuucks. Thanks for the kind words. In lieu of a dedicated
award/chalice/book contract, I do accept donations of cash and
beer/rum. email me directly for shipping instructions.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it
makes me sad that I'm gonna miss mine by just a few days" - Garrison
Keiler
wrote:
> David.From time to time a response to a members question is so cogent,
intelligent, thoughtful, that there should be a way to establish an
award or some kind as an encouragement for this high level of
authorship. I can at least say: Thank you David Graybeal for your
response to "Sara". John H. Wright
**********
John,
Awwww Shuuuucks. Thanks for the kind words. In lieu of a dedicated
award/chalice/book contract, I do accept donations of cash and
beer/rum. email me directly for shipping instructions.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it
makes me sad that I'm gonna miss mine by just a few days" - Garrison
Keiler
David. From time to time a response to a members question is so
cogent, intelligent, thoughtful, that there should be a way to establish
an award or some kind as an encouragement for this high level of
authorship. I can at least say: Thank you David Graybeal for your
response to "Sara". John H. Wright
Sara,
Addenda:
I didn't mention that a home-built boat - even a small one - takes a
long time. No, make that a Long Time. No... well you get the idea.
Which leads to the next thought.
It is important to draw the distinctions between boat building, boat
ownership, and boat usage. Perhaps you've already given it some
thought. If you read back through the archives of this, and several
other, Yahoo groups, you'll see discussions of these distinctions.
I'll just recap what I've read. First, building a boat and having a
boat scratch different types of itches. If you're building a boat
because you want a boat, esp. soon, then don't. Instead find a deal on
a used boat similar to what your perceived needs are, clean it up, use
it. Refine your wish list in preparation for the next boat (build or
buy). It'll be much faster, and cheaper. If you're building a boat
because you really want the experience of Building A Boat, or because
it's the only way to acquire a boat of the precise specifications you
desire... then a blessing upon your enterprise.
Another consideration: even if you own a boat, you might not use it as
much as you imagine. That's common. There are ways to plan ahead to
thwart that dynamic. First, the smaller a boat is, the more it gets
used - generally. Second, and perhaps a corollary, the easier your
boat is to transport & rig, the more it'll be used. So, if it has to
be cartopped, make sure it is Really Easy to cartop. If it'll be
trailered, make sure it's Really Easy to hook up, tow, and esp. rig
for use. The minor hassles grow over time to become Major Impediments.
Hope that's somewhat useful. Welcome to the group. Keep asking
questions, and testing your thinking. There are a lot of very
knowledgable people here - happy to help. And I'm always willing to
sling an opinion - informed or not.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cogent, intelligent, thoughtful, that there should be a way to establish
an award or some kind as an encouragement for this high level of
authorship. I can at least say: Thank you David Graybeal for your
response to "Sara". John H. Wright
Sara,
Addenda:
I didn't mention that a home-built boat - even a small one - takes a
long time. No, make that a Long Time. No... well you get the idea.
Which leads to the next thought.
It is important to draw the distinctions between boat building, boat
ownership, and boat usage. Perhaps you've already given it some
thought. If you read back through the archives of this, and several
other, Yahoo groups, you'll see discussions of these distinctions.
I'll just recap what I've read. First, building a boat and having a
boat scratch different types of itches. If you're building a boat
because you want a boat, esp. soon, then don't. Instead find a deal on
a used boat similar to what your perceived needs are, clean it up, use
it. Refine your wish list in preparation for the next boat (build or
buy). It'll be much faster, and cheaper. If you're building a boat
because you really want the experience of Building A Boat, or because
it's the only way to acquire a boat of the precise specifications you
desire... then a blessing upon your enterprise.
Another consideration: even if you own a boat, you might not use it as
much as you imagine. That's common. There are ways to plan ahead to
thwart that dynamic. First, the smaller a boat is, the more it gets
used - generally. Second, and perhaps a corollary, the easier your
boat is to transport & rig, the more it'll be used. So, if it has to
be cartopped, make sure it is Really Easy to cartop. If it'll be
trailered, make sure it's Really Easy to hook up, tow, and esp. rig
for use. The minor hassles grow over time to become Major Impediments.
Hope that's somewhat useful. Welcome to the group. Keep asking
questions, and testing your thinking. There are a lot of very
knowledgable people here - happy to help. And I'm always willing to
sling an opinion - informed or not.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Sara" <coxwain42@y...> wrote:
Sara,
Addenda:
I didn't mention that a home-built boat - even a small one - takes a
long time. No, make that a Long Time. No... well you get the idea.
Which leads to the next thought.
It is important to draw the distinctions between boat building, boat
ownership, and boat usage. Perhaps you've already given it some
thought. If you read back through the archives of this, and several
other, Yahoo groups, you'll see discussions of these distinctions.
I'll just recap what I've read. First, building a boat and having a
boat scratch different types of itches. If you're building a boat
because you want a boat, esp. soon, then don't. Instead find a deal on
a used boat similar to what your perceived needs are, clean it up, use
it. Refine your wish list in preparation for the next boat (build or
buy). It'll be much faster, and cheaper. If you're building a boat
because you really want the experience of Building A Boat, or because
it's the only way to acquire a boat of the precise specifications you
desire... then a blessing upon your enterprise.
Another consideration: even if you own a boat, you might not use it as
much as you imagine. That's common. There are ways to plan ahead to
thwart that dynamic. First, the smaller a boat is, the more it gets
used - generally. Second, and perhaps a corollary, the easier your
boat is to transport & rig, the more it'll be used. So, if it has to
be cartopped, make sure it is Really Easy to cartop. If it'll be
trailered, make sure it's Really Easy to hook up, tow, and esp. rig
for use. The minor hassles grow over time to become Major Impediments.
Hope that's somewhat useful. Welcome to the group. Keep asking
questions, and testing your thinking. There are a lot of very
knowledgable people here - happy to help. And I'm always willing to
sling an opinion - informed or not.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
> Bolger boats captured my attention a bit ago and I am a new addition*************
> to your group.
> I've done a fair share of sailing before, have a large garage and
> basic woodworking skills.
> I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
> to begin. Is it wiser to
> start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
> sharpie, or would I be
> taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
> my heart.
>
> Sara
Sara,
Addenda:
I didn't mention that a home-built boat - even a small one - takes a
long time. No, make that a Long Time. No... well you get the idea.
Which leads to the next thought.
It is important to draw the distinctions between boat building, boat
ownership, and boat usage. Perhaps you've already given it some
thought. If you read back through the archives of this, and several
other, Yahoo groups, you'll see discussions of these distinctions.
I'll just recap what I've read. First, building a boat and having a
boat scratch different types of itches. If you're building a boat
because you want a boat, esp. soon, then don't. Instead find a deal on
a used boat similar to what your perceived needs are, clean it up, use
it. Refine your wish list in preparation for the next boat (build or
buy). It'll be much faster, and cheaper. If you're building a boat
because you really want the experience of Building A Boat, or because
it's the only way to acquire a boat of the precise specifications you
desire... then a blessing upon your enterprise.
Another consideration: even if you own a boat, you might not use it as
much as you imagine. That's common. There are ways to plan ahead to
thwart that dynamic. First, the smaller a boat is, the more it gets
used - generally. Second, and perhaps a corollary, the easier your
boat is to transport & rig, the more it'll be used. So, if it has to
be cartopped, make sure it is Really Easy to cartop. If it'll be
trailered, make sure it's Really Easy to hook up, tow, and esp. rig
for use. The minor hassles grow over time to become Major Impediments.
Hope that's somewhat useful. Welcome to the group. Keep asking
questions, and testing your thinking. There are a lot of very
knowledgable people here - happy to help. And I'm always willing to
sling an opinion - informed or not.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Sara" <coxwain42@y...> wrote:
Sara,
I have to agree that building the small boats first is a good idea. I
just finished building a 15'-6" Goat Island Skiff by Micheal Storer. I
am a professional woodworker, but this was my first boat built from
the keel up. I learned plenty of lessons. My crew was not pro
woodworkers: an accountant friend; my two boys (12&17). Between us, we
made lots of mistakes & had lots of setbacks. They were disheartening.
They'd have been exponentially more discouraging in a bigger boat. I'm
much more prepared to build a larger boat now. Now, lots of folks do
tackle the big boat first. Lots are successful. My impresssion,
though, is that a higher percentage of those projects either lag or
are abandoned.
I can certainly understand your being enamored of the Long Micro. Have
you also looked at the Chebacco? I particularly like the Navigator
versions of both of those boats.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Life is what happens to us while we're making other plans"
- John Lennon
> Bolger boats captured my attention a bit ago and I am a new addition*****************
> to your group.
> I've done a fair share of sailing before, have a large garage and
> basic woodworking skills.
> I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
> to begin. Is it wiser to
> start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
> sharpie, or would I be
> taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
> my heart.
>
> Sara
Sara,
I have to agree that building the small boats first is a good idea. I
just finished building a 15'-6" Goat Island Skiff by Micheal Storer. I
am a professional woodworker, but this was my first boat built from
the keel up. I learned plenty of lessons. My crew was not pro
woodworkers: an accountant friend; my two boys (12&17). Between us, we
made lots of mistakes & had lots of setbacks. They were disheartening.
They'd have been exponentially more discouraging in a bigger boat. I'm
much more prepared to build a larger boat now. Now, lots of folks do
tackle the big boat first. Lots are successful. My impresssion,
though, is that a higher percentage of those projects either lag or
are abandoned.
I can certainly understand your being enamored of the Long Micro. Have
you also looked at the Chebacco? I particularly like the Navigator
versions of both of those boats.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Life is what happens to us while we're making other plans"
- John Lennon
Jim Michalak has often recommended building a dinghy first if you're
planning on building a larger boat. My first boat was a 2 sheet 8 ft
sailing dinghy that took about 80 man hours. The Chebacco took 7 more
years. I'm not sure I would have completed the Chebacco if I hadn't seen
the finished product in the dink.
Welcome to the group.
planning on building a larger boat. My first boat was a 2 sheet 8 ft
sailing dinghy that took about 80 man hours. The Chebacco took 7 more
years. I'm not sure I would have completed the Chebacco if I hadn't seen
the finished product in the dink.
Welcome to the group.
>
>
>
> Bolger boats captured my attention a bit ago and I am a new addition
> to your group.
> I've done a fair share of sailing before, have a large garage and
> basic woodworking skills.
> I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
> to begin. Is it wiser to
> start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
> sharpie, or would I be
> taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
> my heart.
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Sara" <coxwain42@y...> wrote:
Is it wiser to
> start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
> sharpie, or would I be
> taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
> my heart.
>
> Sara
Hi, I made a long response to the above as I am a long time long micro
fan:-) So this is kind of a test to see if my messages are being
bounced.
Photos of a long micro being built in Bowling Green OH can be located
by going to message 44218 in this group.
Also in my long post I mention perhaps starting off with an elegant
punt that could be used as a tender or perhaps considering a bigger
day-sailor like a Surf to have available while building LM. Plans can
be purchased here along with the book, "Build The New Instant Boats" -
which is invaluable.
http://www.instantboats.com/
These are my totally biased opinions:-)
Cheers, Nels
> I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to whereBuilding a few small boats first can ultimately save you 'total time spent'
> to begin.
> Sara
on a large boat project because the 'learning mistakes' are smaller.
Also, starting out by make a making a model of a larger boat can
save 'total time spent' if it helps you devise the most effecient
sequencing scheme. [Or if it helps you realize that perhaps that
larger boat might not be the best choice for *you*.]
Bolger boats captured my attention a bit ago and I am a new addition
to your group.
I've done a fair share of sailing before, have a large garage and
basic woodworking skills.
I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
to begin. Is it wiser to
start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
sharpie, or would I be
taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
my heart.
Sara
to your group.
I've done a fair share of sailing before, have a large garage and
basic woodworking skills.
I would like to build one of Phil's boats but need input as to where
to begin. Is it wiser to
start with one of his smaller designs, such as a 12 ft row and sail
sharpie, or would I be
taking on too much by building a long micro a design which has stolen
my heart.
Sara