Re: [bolger] PL Premium
This old thread:
Used the PL in a tube today. Very nice fixing little 1/4"
plywood bulkheads in the ends with nothing else but it. No
frames or anything. These chambers don't have to do much but
contain the foam. I'd read that Norm McLeod, at least for a
while, stopped even beveling frames for it. Mine are beveled
all around.
It oozed out of the caulker quite nicely and formed an easy
to work 3/8" fillet, which gap it's said to fill. Came off
right with a bit of acetone. Good color to match the fir.
Mark
Mark Albanese wrote:
Used the PL in a tube today. Very nice fixing little 1/4"
plywood bulkheads in the ends with nothing else but it. No
frames or anything. These chambers don't have to do much but
contain the foam. I'd read that Norm McLeod, at least for a
while, stopped even beveling frames for it. Mine are beveled
all around.
It oozed out of the caulker quite nicely and formed an easy
to work 3/8" fillet, which gap it's said to fill. Came off
right with a bit of acetone. Good color to match the fir.
Mark
Mark Albanese wrote:
>
> Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
> European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
>
> According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
> exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
> resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
> of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
>
> I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
> Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
> caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
>
> My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
> fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
> tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
> mostly fastenless, with it.
>
> No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
> temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
>
> I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
> foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
> inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
> clean up where you can, but needs tending.
>
> I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
> caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
> or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
> so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
> tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
>
> In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
> Neither took very long to cure.
>
> Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
> aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
> just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
> joint strong is minimizing creep.
>
> In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
> strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
> only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
>
> Mark
I've just been looking at these and deciding what to use next -- 3M's 5200,
and I think Sikaflex' 240, are polyurethanes. They are both recommended
where you never need to take the joint apart again. 3M's 101 is a
polysulphide, and is not so permanent -- I don't know the Sikaflex
equivalent.
I used 5200 under my rub rails -- it was stiff and didn't spread easily, but
that may have been because the temperature was only just within the range
given on the tube. Did a nice job and cleaned up easily with mineral
spirits. I used 101 under the rudder fittings where I may want to remove
them one day.
I recently saw a professional boatbuilder using Rule Elastomer as a sealant
between lapstrake (clinker) planks. It smells and looks a bit like silicone
seal, but apparently is not silicone as he reports that it stays stuck. It
may be some kind of hybrid. It's a bit cheaper than 3M or Sikaflex.
Jamie Orr
PS I finally chose Boat Life's Life Caulk this time around as it is
available in a small tube in brown -- this is another polysulphide.
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Hodges [mailto:dhodges@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:12 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium
FWIW, I think 5200 and Sika-flex are polysulfides, whatever that means. I
know fisthand that 5200 is tough stuff - I don't want to remove anything
bedded in it!
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
and I think Sikaflex' 240, are polyurethanes. They are both recommended
where you never need to take the joint apart again. 3M's 101 is a
polysulphide, and is not so permanent -- I don't know the Sikaflex
equivalent.
I used 5200 under my rub rails -- it was stiff and didn't spread easily, but
that may have been because the temperature was only just within the range
given on the tube. Did a nice job and cleaned up easily with mineral
spirits. I used 101 under the rudder fittings where I may want to remove
them one day.
I recently saw a professional boatbuilder using Rule Elastomer as a sealant
between lapstrake (clinker) planks. It smells and looks a bit like silicone
seal, but apparently is not silicone as he reports that it stays stuck. It
may be some kind of hybrid. It's a bit cheaper than 3M or Sikaflex.
Jamie Orr
PS I finally chose Boat Life's Life Caulk this time around as it is
available in a small tube in brown -- this is another polysulphide.
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Hodges [mailto:dhodges@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:12 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium
FWIW, I think 5200 and Sika-flex are polysulfides, whatever that means. I
know fisthand that 5200 is tough stuff - I don't want to remove anything
bedded in it!
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Albanese <marka@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium
>
>
> Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
> European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
>
> According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
> exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
> resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
> of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
>
> I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
> Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
> caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
>
> My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
> fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
> tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
> mostly fastenless, with it.
>
> No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
> temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
>
> I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
> foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
> inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
> clean up where you can, but needs tending.
>
> I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
> caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
> or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
> so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
> tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
>
> In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
> Neither took very long to cure.
>
> Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
> aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
> just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
> joint strong is minimizing creep.
>
> In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
> strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
> only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE FREE! GET THE OFFICIAL COMPANION
> TO TELEVISION'S HOTTEST GAME SHOW PHENOMENON PLUS 5 MORE BOOKS FOR
> $2. Click for details.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3014/6/_/3457/_/957212779/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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FWIW, I think 5200 and Sika-flex are polysulfides, whatever that means. I
know fisthand that 5200 is tough stuff - I don't want to remove anything
bedded in it!
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
know fisthand that 5200 is tough stuff - I don't want to remove anything
bedded in it!
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Albanese <marka@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium
>
>
> Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
> European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
>
> According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
> exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
> resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
> of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
>
> I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
> Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
> caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
>
> My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
> fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
> tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
> mostly fastenless, with it.
>
> No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
> temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
>
> I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
> foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
> inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
> clean up where you can, but needs tending.
>
> I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
> caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
> or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
> so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
> tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
>
> In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
> Neither took very long to cure.
>
> Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
> aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
> just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
> joint strong is minimizing creep.
>
> In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
> strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
> only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE FREE! GET THE OFFICIAL COMPANION
> TO TELEVISION'S HOTTEST GAME SHOW PHENOMENON PLUS 5 MORE BOOKS FOR
> $2. Click for details.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3014/6/_/3457/_/957212779/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
mostly fastenless, with it.
No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
clean up where you can, but needs tending.
I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
Neither took very long to cure.
Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
joint strong is minimizing creep.
In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
Mark
European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
mostly fastenless, with it.
No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
clean up where you can, but needs tending.
I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
Neither took very long to cure.
Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
joint strong is minimizing creep.
In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
Mark
Gary,
I really like PL, but have not done any objective testing. I have glued in
chine logs, butt blocks, and laminated small boat transoms from 1/4 ply. I
also make oarlock receptacles by gluing 1/2 hard copper pipe into 2x4 stock.
I had to extract a plug of cured PL from the nozzle of a caulking tube the
other day. It was resilient, much like thick wire insulation; I whacked it
with a hammer (bounced off nicely) and tried to slice it with a pocket
knife - it was very tough but not extremely hard or brittle. A thin line
of it appears to foam more than a bead or a thicker line in a joint. No way
its as strong as epoxy, but I would be surprised if it failed before wood in
a peel test.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
I really like PL, but have not done any objective testing. I have glued in
chine logs, butt blocks, and laminated small boat transoms from 1/4 ply. I
also make oarlock receptacles by gluing 1/2 hard copper pipe into 2x4 stock.
I had to extract a plug of cured PL from the nozzle of a caulking tube the
other day. It was resilient, much like thick wire insulation; I whacked it
with a hammer (bounced off nicely) and tried to slice it with a pocket
knife - it was very tough but not extremely hard or brittle. A thin line
of it appears to foam more than a bead or a thicker line in a joint. No way
its as strong as epoxy, but I would be surprised if it failed before wood in
a peel test.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: <gbship@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 11:40 PM
Subject: [bolger] PL Premium
> Several members of the list have mentioned at times using PL Premium
> polyurethane glue. I always thought it was some kind of caulk glue,
> like Liquid Nails, but got some at Home Depot yesterday. It looks
> like the old Gorilla Glue, one of the first polyurethanes (haven't
> seen it lately, so I don't know if that company has folded). My
> question for those who have used PL Premium is: how well does it
> hold? Have you made masts with it or other joints that aren't backed
> up by mechanical fastenings? My homemade tests several years ago
> showed the while Gorilla Glue was ultimately waterproof, including
> holding when boiled, it wasn't very strong. A couple moderate whacks
> with a hammer and the joint would fail, and it was always the glue,
> not the wood that gave way. That was unlike Titebond II (as long as
> the joint stayed dry) and epoxy where the wood always failed first.
> I'll probably be doing some testing on the PL Premium, but was
> curious about the experiences of others.
>
> Thanx!
>
> Gary Blankenship
> Tallahassee, FL
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/6/_/3457/_/956983272/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>