Re: [bolger] Re: Advanced Sharpie 29, 1000 hours
I would second that. Change of the overall weight and/or weight
distribution of the mast of a known good design will change the balance
of the ship, not to mention the give of it as mentioned.
If talking generally, an aluminum mast is expensive and necessarily in a
hardened state to be rigid enough while still maintaining a weight
advantage and hence a less astronomical price. Welding of any
non-heat-treatable aluminum weakens it in the heat affected zone, in
case modification or repair is a consideration. Heat treatable alloys
can, of course, be hardened, but ovens large enough for the heat
treatment are not common and by default expensive to hire. The loss of
strength in the weld area can be compensated for with well place
sleeves, at the cost of adding a level complexity. Overall good
properties, very expensive and somewhat to very impractical to modify or
repair.
Steel is a viable choice, IMO, so long as corrosion is dealt with well
and a relatively large, thin walled section is used to get enough
strength with low enough weight. For my 2 cents, though, a wooden boat
should have a wooden mast. A steel mast is a good fit on a steel boat.
Same prep, paint, etc. to preserve it as the boat and simple to attach
by welding.
willers32 wrote:
distribution of the mast of a known good design will change the balance
of the ship, not to mention the give of it as mentioned.
If talking generally, an aluminum mast is expensive and necessarily in a
hardened state to be rigid enough while still maintaining a weight
advantage and hence a less astronomical price. Welding of any
non-heat-treatable aluminum weakens it in the heat affected zone, in
case modification or repair is a consideration. Heat treatable alloys
can, of course, be hardened, but ovens large enough for the heat
treatment are not common and by default expensive to hire. The loss of
strength in the weld area can be compensated for with well place
sleeves, at the cost of adding a level complexity. Overall good
properties, very expensive and somewhat to very impractical to modify or
repair.
Steel is a viable choice, IMO, so long as corrosion is dealt with well
and a relatively large, thin walled section is used to get enough
strength with low enough weight. For my 2 cents, though, a wooden boat
should have a wooden mast. A steel mast is a good fit on a steel boat.
Same prep, paint, etc. to preserve it as the boat and simple to attach
by welding.
willers32 wrote:
>I would go one further and say that neither steel nor aluminum would
>behave the same as a wooden spar. This is an unstayed mast with a lot
>of thrust in certain spots along its length. The wood has just the
>right amount of "springiness" to bend as designed, where designed.
>Also, the weight of the wooden spar is figured into the overall
>balance of the boat on its waterline.
>
>The heavy wooden spar also contributes to stability. The weight aloft
>acts like a pendulum to slow the roll.
>
>I wouldn't mess with success. Use the Doug fir specified - it works
>just fine.
>
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
>
>>On 10/6/05, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@y...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any reason why one shouldn't use ordinary round steel
>>>or aluminium tube for masts?
>>>Cheers
>>>Andy Airey
>>>
>>>
>>In my case, I felt that steel rusts,
>>and aluminum tube was too expensive.
>>Wood works fine, and the price is right.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I would go one further and say that neither steel nor aluminum would
behave the same as a wooden spar. This is an unstayed mast with a lot
of thrust in certain spots along its length. The wood has just the
right amount of "springiness" to bend as designed, where designed.
Also, the weight of the wooden spar is figured into the overall
balance of the boat on its waterline.
The heavy wooden spar also contributes to stability. The weight aloft
acts like a pendulum to slow the roll.
I wouldn't mess with success. Use the Doug fir specified - it works
just fine.
behave the same as a wooden spar. This is an unstayed mast with a lot
of thrust in certain spots along its length. The wood has just the
right amount of "springiness" to bend as designed, where designed.
Also, the weight of the wooden spar is figured into the overall
balance of the boat on its waterline.
The heavy wooden spar also contributes to stability. The weight aloft
acts like a pendulum to slow the roll.
I wouldn't mess with success. Use the Doug fir specified - it works
just fine.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> On 10/6/05, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@y...> wrote:
> > Any reason why one shouldn't use ordinary round steel
> > or aluminium tube for masts?
> > Cheers
> > Andy Airey
>
> In my case, I felt that steel rusts,
> and aluminum tube was too expensive.
> Wood works fine, and the price is right.
On 10/6/05, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
and aluminum tube was too expensive.
Wood works fine, and the price is right.
> Any reason why one shouldn't use ordinary round steelIn my case, I felt that steel rusts,
> or aluminium tube for masts?
> Cheers
> Andy Airey
and aluminum tube was too expensive.
Wood works fine, and the price is right.
Any reason why one shouldn't use ordinary round steel
or aluminium tube for masts?
Cheers
Andy Airey
--- willers32 <mwagner@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
I tried the electric plane and was not pleased with
the result.
Perhaps the blade wasn't sharp, or I just had a cheap
plane - whatever
- the result was just too uneven for my taste,
especially as the grain
changed. A nice, sharp, heavy manual plane gave me a
nice smooth shave
along the surface. Once I had practiced a bit, I was
able to make one
stroke the whole length. A lot of walking through
mounds of shavings,
but a nice smooth result.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby"
<derbyrm@e...> wrote:
really
garage
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming,
or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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or aluminium tube for masts?
Cheers
Andy Airey
--- willers32 <mwagner@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
I tried the electric plane and was not pleased with
the result.
Perhaps the blade wasn't sharp, or I just had a cheap
plane - whatever
- the result was just too uneven for my taste,
especially as the grain
changed. A nice, sharp, heavy manual plane gave me a
nice smooth shave
along the surface. Once I had practiced a bit, I was
able to make one
stroke the whole length. A lot of walking through
mounds of shavings,
but a nice smooth result.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby"
<derbyrm@e...> wrote:
> OK, the biggest mast I've carved so far is 2"diameter, but it went
really
> fast. The clue was an electric block plane. Wow!It filled the
garage
> with shavings in a matter of minutes.Bolger rules!!!
>
> Varnishing the several spars took forever.
>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming,
or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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I tried the electric plane and was not pleased with the result.
Perhaps the blade wasn't sharp, or I just had a cheap plane - whatever
- the result was just too uneven for my taste, especially as the grain
changed. A nice, sharp, heavy manual plane gave me a nice smooth shave
along the surface. Once I had practiced a bit, I was able to make one
stroke the whole length. A lot of walking through mounds of shavings,
but a nice smooth result.
Perhaps the blade wasn't sharp, or I just had a cheap plane - whatever
- the result was just too uneven for my taste, especially as the grain
changed. A nice, sharp, heavy manual plane gave me a nice smooth shave
along the surface. Once I had practiced a bit, I was able to make one
stroke the whole length. A lot of walking through mounds of shavings,
but a nice smooth result.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
> OK, the biggest mast I've carved so far is 2" diameter, but it went
really
> fast. The clue was an electric block plane. Wow! It filled the
garage
> with shavings in a matter of minutes.
>
> Varnishing the several spars took forever.
>
OK, the biggest mast I've carved so far is 2" diameter, but it went really
fast. The clue was an electric block plane. Wow! It filled the garage
with shavings in a matter of minutes.
Varnishing the several spars took forever.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
fast. The clue was an electric block plane. Wow! It filled the garage
with shavings in a matter of minutes.
Varnishing the several spars took forever.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Wagner" <mwagner@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Advanced Sharpie 29, 1000 hours
> You are correct, I couldn't stick to the mast as a steady project. I
> started it in the fall, and didn't finish until spring. This was mostly
> due to the harsh winter that year and the barn being unheated. If I was
> to add up actual hours spent on the carving, it's probably not too bad.
> Also, I'm not that skilled with either draw knife or plane and had to
> feel my way around quite a bit.
>
> Harry James wrote:
>
>>I saved this message because it made me pause. It seems like a long time
>>to carve a mast. I did a forty footer solid mast once with plane and
>>drawknife. It was a teardrop shape, I started with a solid rectangle
>>sawed roughly to the taper of the old mast, I set the pieces of the old
>>up next to the new on saw horses and used a caliper to take
>>measurements. It took me three 12hr plus days, I had no distractions,
>>all I had to do was eat and work on the mast. I ended up with a stack of
>>shavings under the mast, 40 ft long and two feet deep. I suspect you
>>didn't have the luxury of focusing 100% on the task, I know my current
>>state family affairs would interfere with that kind of concentration. I
>>felt driven at the time, summer vacation was going by and I wasn't on
>>the water.
>>
>>The mast came out really well, with 5 coats of varnish it got a lot of
>>raves.
>>
>>willers32 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Having just completed and launched my AS-29, I think these estimates
>>>are a bit off.
>>>
>>>For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
>>>square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
>>>long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
>>>carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
>>>tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
>>>of weekends.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---snip---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bolger rules!!!
>>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>>horses
>>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>>(978) 282-1349
>>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
You are correct, I couldn't stick to the mast as a steady project. I
started it in the fall, and didn't finish until spring. This was mostly
due to the harsh winter that year and the barn being unheated. If I was
to add up actual hours spent on the carving, it's probably not too bad.
Also, I'm not that skilled with either draw knife or plane and had to
feel my way around quite a bit.
Harry James wrote:
started it in the fall, and didn't finish until spring. This was mostly
due to the harsh winter that year and the barn being unheated. If I was
to add up actual hours spent on the carving, it's probably not too bad.
Also, I'm not that skilled with either draw knife or plane and had to
feel my way around quite a bit.
Harry James wrote:
>I saved this message because it made me pause. It seems like a long time[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>to carve a mast. I did a forty footer solid mast once with plane and
>drawknife. It was a teardrop shape, I started with a solid rectangle
>sawed roughly to the taper of the old mast, I set the pieces of the old
>up next to the new on saw horses and used a caliper to take
>measurements. It took me three 12hr plus days, I had no distractions,
>all I had to do was eat and work on the mast. I ended up with a stack of
>shavings under the mast, 40 ft long and two feet deep. I suspect you
>didn't have the luxury of focusing 100% on the task, I know my current
>state family affairs would interfere with that kind of concentration. I
>felt driven at the time, summer vacation was going by and I wasn't on
>the water.
>
>The mast came out really well, with 5 coats of varnish it got a lot of
>raves.
>
>willers32 wrote:
>
>
>
>>Having just completed and launched my AS-29, I think these estimates
>>are a bit off.
>>
>>For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
>>square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
>>long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
>>carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
>>tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
>>of weekends.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>---snip---
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I saved this message because it made me pause. It seems like a long time
to carve a mast. I did a forty footer solid mast once with plane and
drawknife. It was a teardrop shape, I started with a solid rectangle
sawed roughly to the taper of the old mast, I set the pieces of the old
up next to the new on saw horses and used a caliper to take
measurements. It took me three 12hr plus days, I had no distractions,
all I had to do was eat and work on the mast. I ended up with a stack of
shavings under the mast, 40 ft long and two feet deep. I suspect you
didn't have the luxury of focusing 100% on the task, I know my current
state family affairs would interfere with that kind of concentration. I
felt driven at the time, summer vacation was going by and I wasn't on
the water.
The mast came out really well, with 5 coats of varnish it got a lot of
raves.
willers32 wrote:
to carve a mast. I did a forty footer solid mast once with plane and
drawknife. It was a teardrop shape, I started with a solid rectangle
sawed roughly to the taper of the old mast, I set the pieces of the old
up next to the new on saw horses and used a caliper to take
measurements. It took me three 12hr plus days, I had no distractions,
all I had to do was eat and work on the mast. I ended up with a stack of
shavings under the mast, 40 ft long and two feet deep. I suspect you
didn't have the luxury of focusing 100% on the task, I know my current
state family affairs would interfere with that kind of concentration. I
felt driven at the time, summer vacation was going by and I wasn't on
the water.
The mast came out really well, with 5 coats of varnish it got a lot of
raves.
willers32 wrote:
>Having just completed and launched my AS-29, I think these estimates---snip---
>are a bit off.
>
>For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
>square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
>long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
>carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
>tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
>of weekends.)
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Before the flip, I built a frame which consisted of
4 (2 pairs) 2x6 padded cross members, in line with the internal frames
under the galley (the beams that form the forward and aft end of the
trunks.)
These were joined together by two 2x10's running lengthwise just
inboard of the trunks. These were reinforced by landscape ties for
stifness. I attached wedges to the forward end of the lengthwise
runners to form something akin to a sled.
Just outboard of the hull, I bolted more 2x6's to connect the cross
frames. I reinforced it all with plywood gussets for stiffness. I made
a temporary attachement to the sides of the hull.
This frame became the "grab handle" for the flip crew, and once
flipped, became the sled we used to winch the whole thing out of the barn.
Once the boat was finished, I hired a trucker with a "Landoll." This
rig is a long, kneeling flatbed. I jacked up the front of the
boat/sled combo, the trucker backed in under it. Then he wrapped a
cargo strap around the sled, attached a chain to the strap and the
winch and hauled away. Though my heart was in my throat the whole
time, it work flawlessly. The sled creaked and groaned but held
together. Once at the yard, the trucked backed in under the travelift
and off we went.
Figure on about $125 per hour for the Landoll and crew. About one hour
to load, plus travel time to the marina. Cake. I think I posted pics
on the Bolger4pictures site. If I didn't, I'll post them tonight.
>Here's what I did:
> I also forgot, the couple days it would take to
> build the cribbing to hoist and set the hull on the rental
> flatbed truck.
>
>
Before the flip, I built a frame which consisted of
4 (2 pairs) 2x6 padded cross members, in line with the internal frames
under the galley (the beams that form the forward and aft end of the
trunks.)
These were joined together by two 2x10's running lengthwise just
inboard of the trunks. These were reinforced by landscape ties for
stifness. I attached wedges to the forward end of the lengthwise
runners to form something akin to a sled.
Just outboard of the hull, I bolted more 2x6's to connect the cross
frames. I reinforced it all with plywood gussets for stiffness. I made
a temporary attachement to the sides of the hull.
This frame became the "grab handle" for the flip crew, and once
flipped, became the sled we used to winch the whole thing out of the barn.
Once the boat was finished, I hired a trucker with a "Landoll." This
rig is a long, kneeling flatbed. I jacked up the front of the
boat/sled combo, the trucker backed in under it. Then he wrapped a
cargo strap around the sled, attached a chain to the strap and the
winch and hauled away. Though my heart was in my throat the whole
time, it work flawlessly. The sled creaked and groaned but held
together. Once at the yard, the trucked backed in under the travelift
and off we went.
Figure on about $125 per hour for the Landoll and crew. About one hour
to load, plus travel time to the marina. Cake. I think I posted pics
on the Bolger4pictures site. If I didn't, I'll post them tonight.
Sheet rock screws as temporary fasteners work fine. I used them for
some applications. I used both screws and weights when laminating the
bottom. The main thing is to have no voids. Any air pocket will cause
moisture condesation and lead to problems later. If the screws
penetrate the inner layer, you'll have to fill them after the flip.
I used epoxy with the slow hardener. This gave me a longer set-up time
to work out all the bubbles. There are special rollers that are handy
for spreading epoxy for laminating.
To lube the screws, try wax. The epoxy won't stick to it, so getting
them out is easier. Make sure you get rid of any residue before
applying the glass. (light sanding should do it.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
some applications. I used both screws and weights when laminating the
bottom. The main thing is to have no voids. Any air pocket will cause
moisture condesation and lead to problems later. If the screws
penetrate the inner layer, you'll have to fill them after the flip.
I used epoxy with the slow hardener. This gave me a longer set-up time
to work out all the bubbles. There are special rollers that are handy
for spreading epoxy for laminating.
To lube the screws, try wax. The epoxy won't stick to it, so getting
them out is easier. Make sure you get rid of any residue before
applying the glass. (light sanding should do it.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
> I can't see how mastic would be anywhere near as strong as epoxying
> the two layers together. Buehler's boats are heavily over-designed.
>
> Would it be possible to use sheetrock screws or similar-- to be
> removed later -- to hold the second layer to the first while the
> epoxy was setting? I've never tried it, but I've read that greasing
> the screws first will allow them to be removed easily. If that
> fails, the head of each screw can be heated with a soldering iron to
> soften the epoxy. The holes can be filled and they'll be covered
> with fibreglass anyway.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > > > 36 Bottom panels - The bottom is two layers. After the dry
> fit,
> > > you'll have to glue and bolt the first layer,
> >
> > I was hoping to use an air nailer.
> > I wonder if a flooring mastic could be used in lieu of thickened
> > epoxy. George Buehler laminates his plywood with roofing
> > tar, and reports that it works great.
> Do your absolute best guess for time, them multiply that by 6. It'sBeing off by a factor of six, I think, either means that you are a bad
> usually pretty close.
> Bill H.
estimator, or that something materially changed about what you were
building.
I recently estimated 32 hours and took 40 hours to build this boat.
I was off by 20% not 600%.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/373314405/373314405lCZfob
Friend of mine that built boats professionally for years has a
method for figuring out how long it takes to build a boat.
Do your absolute best guess for time, them multiply that by 6. It's
usually pretty close.
Would take a really experienced builder that was pretty fast to
build a 29 footer in a thousand hours and that likely would only be
possible if he'd built one similar before.
Bill H.
method for figuring out how long it takes to build a boat.
Do your absolute best guess for time, them multiply that by 6. It's
usually pretty close.
Would take a really experienced builder that was pretty fast to
build a 29 footer in a thousand hours and that likely would only be
possible if he'd built one similar before.
Bill H.
> Here is my takeoff of estimate of manhours to build an AS-29
> =======
> 1,000 manhours
> 2 Frame A bottom
> 2 Frame B bottom
> 2 Frame C bottom
> 4 Frame D bottom
> 4 Frame E bottom
> 3 Frame F bottom
> 3 Frame G bottom
> 8 Chine logs
> 4 board slot sides
> 36 Bottom panels
> 10 Bottom sides
> 24 Anti-plumphing
> 8 Flip
> 4 Frame A
> 4 Frame B
> 4 Frame C
> 4 Frame D
> 4 Frame E
> 4 Frame F
> 4 Frame G
> 36 Sides
> 24 'Dagger' Boards
> 16 Board well sides
> 48 Transom berths, drawers
> 8 Galley floor
> 8 Cabin floor
> 8 Double berth
> 16 Aft bookshelf, drawer, ventbox
> 12 Aft buoyancy boxes
> 12 Cockpit sole/sides
> 16 Rudder, tiller
> 6 Motor mount
> 6 Boomkin mounts
> 12 Mizzen tabernacle
> 16 Bureau, hangers
> 8 Cabin ladder
> 36 Starboard galley cabinets
> 36 Portside icebox/cabinets
> 16 Drop leaf table
> 36 Heater, heater bins
> 36 Forward lockers/shelves
> 6 Forward vent boxes
> 24 Forward buoyancy
> 24 Main tabernacle
> 40 Hull windows
> 24 Deck stringers
> 40 Decking
> 24 Midship deckhouse sides
> 12 Midship deckhouse roof
> 24 Hatch
> 8 Traveler
> 12 Cockpit backs & Lexan
> 40 Tortoise tender
> 4 Tortoise chocks
> 24 Forward deckhouse sides
> 24 Forward hatch
> 12 Forward deckhouse roof
> 24 Mainmast
> 16 Mizzen mast
> 24 Boom/gaff
> 4 Mizzen sprit
> 24 Rigging
> 16 Steel plate ballast
I can't see how mastic would be anywhere near as strong as epoxying
the two layers together. Buehler's boats are heavily over-designed.
Would it be possible to use sheetrock screws or similar-- to be
removed later -- to hold the second layer to the first while the
epoxy was setting? I've never tried it, but I've read that greasing
the screws first will allow them to be removed easily. If that
fails, the head of each screw can be heated with a soldering iron to
soften the epoxy. The holes can be filled and they'll be covered
with fibreglass anyway.
Howard
the two layers together. Buehler's boats are heavily over-designed.
Would it be possible to use sheetrock screws or similar-- to be
removed later -- to hold the second layer to the first while the
epoxy was setting? I've never tried it, but I've read that greasing
the screws first will allow them to be removed easily. If that
fails, the head of each screw can be heated with a soldering iron to
soften the epoxy. The holes can be filled and they'll be covered
with fibreglass anyway.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > > 36 Bottom panels - The bottom is two layers. After the dry
fit,
> > you'll have to glue and bolt the first layer,
>
> I was hoping to use an air nailer.
> I wonder if a flooring mastic could be used in lieu of thickened
> epoxy. George Buehler laminates his plywood with roofing
> tar, and reports that it works great.
On 7/18/05, willers32
some applications, I would ask him before committing.
The 'overlay' in the medium density overlay is resin impregnated
paper, I understand. 'Glassing' is resin impregnated fiberglass,
not the same I know, but of the same general nature, I think.
> The Mizzen on the 29 is about the same as the mainI believe it.
> on the micro; a piece of cake by comparison.
> I scarfed the chine logs and the sheer clamp to make bending easier. ASounds wise too.
> 30' long stick bends fairly easily.
> About bolting the bottom, the plans specify through bolts along theFollowing Bolger's instructions, always wise.
> entire length of the chine log. With or without the steel sheet the
> bottom is heavy.
> I'm not sure about the use of a nail gun, unless you can get bronzeI recall reading that Bolger approves of galvanized nails in
> nails for it.
some applications, I would ask him before committing.
> I don't see a reason you can't use roofing tar or whatever to laminateBuehler did some testing, and the tar was strong.
> the layers.
> If the MDO works for you, go for it.I've seen MDO hold up in highway signs, and that is pretty tough.
The 'overlay' in the medium density overlay is resin impregnated
paper, I understand. 'Glassing' is resin impregnated fiberglass,
not the same I know, but of the same general nature, I think.
I built a Micro about 10 years ago and there's no comparison in
building the mast. The Mizzen on the 29 is about the same as the main
on the micro; a piece of cake by comparison. Also the mast on the
Micro is 8 sided. The AS-29 mast must be nearly perfectly round to
accomodate the gaff jaws. I tried a power plane and did not like the
result.
I scarfed the chine logs and the sheer clamp to make bending easier. A
30' long stick bends fairly easily. And getting a true curve is
crucial. I got an angle jig for my table saw. It allows passing the
work through the saw at the same exact angle repeatedly, giving you
easy, perfect scarfs. I mated the pieces with the biscuit joiner and
got beautiful scarf joints.
About bolting the bottom, the plans specify through bolts along the
entire length of the chine log. With or without the steel sheet the
bottom is heavy.
I'm not sure about the use of a nail gun, unless you can get bronze
nails for it. As I said, I get nervous about anything that can rust.
And stainless below the waterline is a bad idea. (Stainless reacts
badly when sitting in salt water. I work with surgical instruments,
which are a higher grade of stainless and trust me, stainless corrodes
FAST in salt water.) If you get any water intrusion at all, you run
the risk of "iron sickness," a disease that is endemic in old wooden
boats. I used bronze ring nails. A bit more time consuming but they
will never rust or corrode. All bolts are also bronze, so I won't get
any electrolytic reaction.
I don't see a reason you can't use roofing tar or whatever to laminate
the layers. I'm just a purist, and try not to mix glue types. I bought
a huge amount of epoxy and used it for everything, just changing
fillers as needed.
As for fiberglassing the bottom, even with the steel sheet, I would
glass the whole bottom. Water WILL find it's way between the steel and
the plywood and you don't want it seeping in. It does save some
fairing, though. In building the frames under the galley, even with
the steel sheet, we're talking a TON of weight and something has to
support that weight.
I don't have any experience with MDO. I have always used exterior
grade ply and glassed everything. Once glassed, it lasts forever as
long as the sun doesn't get to it. If the MDO works for you, go for it.
building the mast. The Mizzen on the 29 is about the same as the main
on the micro; a piece of cake by comparison. Also the mast on the
Micro is 8 sided. The AS-29 mast must be nearly perfectly round to
accomodate the gaff jaws. I tried a power plane and did not like the
result.
I scarfed the chine logs and the sheer clamp to make bending easier. A
30' long stick bends fairly easily. And getting a true curve is
crucial. I got an angle jig for my table saw. It allows passing the
work through the saw at the same exact angle repeatedly, giving you
easy, perfect scarfs. I mated the pieces with the biscuit joiner and
got beautiful scarf joints.
About bolting the bottom, the plans specify through bolts along the
entire length of the chine log. With or without the steel sheet the
bottom is heavy.
I'm not sure about the use of a nail gun, unless you can get bronze
nails for it. As I said, I get nervous about anything that can rust.
And stainless below the waterline is a bad idea. (Stainless reacts
badly when sitting in salt water. I work with surgical instruments,
which are a higher grade of stainless and trust me, stainless corrodes
FAST in salt water.) If you get any water intrusion at all, you run
the risk of "iron sickness," a disease that is endemic in old wooden
boats. I used bronze ring nails. A bit more time consuming but they
will never rust or corrode. All bolts are also bronze, so I won't get
any electrolytic reaction.
I don't see a reason you can't use roofing tar or whatever to laminate
the layers. I'm just a purist, and try not to mix glue types. I bought
a huge amount of epoxy and used it for everything, just changing
fillers as needed.
As for fiberglassing the bottom, even with the steel sheet, I would
glass the whole bottom. Water WILL find it's way between the steel and
the plywood and you don't want it seeping in. It does save some
fairing, though. In building the frames under the galley, even with
the steel sheet, we're talking a TON of weight and something has to
support that weight.
I don't have any experience with MDO. I have always used exterior
grade ply and glassed everything. Once glassed, it lasts forever as
long as the sun doesn't get to it. If the MDO works for you, go for it.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Thanks, I appreciate the 'fresh first hand knowledge'.
> >
> > For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
> > square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
> > long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
> > carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
> > tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
> > of weekends.)
>
> I have just built a smaller mast for my Micro, 4" x 20' tall
> 6"x 29 ft is much bigger, true, though I used an electrical
> plane on my mast and think (if carefully used) it speeds up
> the process a lot. My 24 manhours is probably too low though.
>
> > > 8 Chine logs - allow a bit more time here. Bending isn't
fun, and
> > the logs will have to be scarfed for length.
>
> Do the plans call for scarfing? I think that structurally it may not
> be necessary. For even curvature, maybe, but a temporary
> cross strut could/would help smooth out the curves, I think.
>
> > > 36 Bottom panels - The bottom is two layers. After the dry fit,
> > you'll have to glue and bolt the first layer,
>
> I was hoping to use an air nailer.
> I wonder if a flooring mastic could be used in lieu of thickened
> epoxy. George Buehler laminates his plywood with roofing
> tar, and reports that it works great.
>
> > It takes a LOT of epoxy to fill the weave. Count on about at least 6
> > coats. Then allow time for fairing and bottom paint. It's hell to
> > paint when it's right side up.
>
> This is one potential time savings of using the steel plate ballast, in
> that much less of the bottom is exposed, and fiberglass could
> be eliminated for 80% of the bottom area covered up by steel, I think.
>
> > > 8 Flip - naw, five minutes. Just buy some beer and burgers,
invite
> > some friends and having flipping party.
>
> That is good news!
>
> > > 36 Sides - again, don't forget fairing time.
>
> I was planning on skipping fiberglass on the MDO plywood sides.
>
> > > 36 Portside icebox/cabinets - the frames under the galley
cabinets -
> > both sides - support the weight of the ballast.
>
> Another benefit of using steel plate external ballast
>
>
> > > 24 Hatch - the hatch took a while. I used two layers of 1/4 ply,
> > glassed it and used clear coat epoxy so I could varnish it. It looks
> > great, but it took a while to fit the rail system so it all works
> > smoothly.
>
> I spent a ton of time on my 'bright finished' hatch on my Micro
> Navigator, and now a year later, [though it looks nice], I sort of
> regret committing to keeping the bright finish renewed. Time
> could be saved using painted MDO hatches, I hope.
>
> > > 8 Traveler - I didn't use a traveler.
>
> The PB&F writeup of the traveler mod seems optimistic, though
> I wonder if one has yet been made?
>
> > > 40 Tortoise tender - didn't do this at all. I bought a small
> > inflatable and called it a day.
>
> Tortoise are such fun and capable boats!
Thanks, I appreciate the 'fresh first hand knowledge'.
6"x 29 ft is much bigger, true, though I used an electrical
plane on my mast and think (if carefully used) it speeds up
the process a lot. My 24 manhours is probably too low though.
be necessary. For even curvature, maybe, but a temporary
cross strut could/would help smooth out the curves, I think.
I wonder if a flooring mastic could be used in lieu of thickened
epoxy. George Buehler laminates his plywood with roofing
tar, and reports that it works great.
that much less of the bottom is exposed, and fiberglass could
be eliminated for 80% of the bottom area covered up by steel, I think.
Navigator, and now a year later, [though it looks nice], I sort of
regret committing to keeping the bright finish renewed. Time
could be saved using painted MDO hatches, I hope.
I wonder if one has yet been made?
>I have just built a smaller mast for my Micro, 4" x 20' tall
> For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
> square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
> long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
> carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
> tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
> of weekends.)
6"x 29 ft is much bigger, true, though I used an electrical
plane on my mast and think (if carefully used) it speeds up
the process a lot. My 24 manhours is probably too low though.
> > 8 Chine logs - allow a bit more time here. Bending isn't fun, andDo the plans call for scarfing? I think that structurally it may not
> the logs will have to be scarfed for length.
be necessary. For even curvature, maybe, but a temporary
cross strut could/would help smooth out the curves, I think.
> > 36 Bottom panels - The bottom is two layers. After the dry fit,I was hoping to use an air nailer.
> you'll have to glue and bolt the first layer,
I wonder if a flooring mastic could be used in lieu of thickened
epoxy. George Buehler laminates his plywood with roofing
tar, and reports that it works great.
> It takes a LOT of epoxy to fill the weave. Count on about at least 6This is one potential time savings of using the steel plate ballast, in
> coats. Then allow time for fairing and bottom paint. It's hell to
> paint when it's right side up.
that much less of the bottom is exposed, and fiberglass could
be eliminated for 80% of the bottom area covered up by steel, I think.
> > 8 Flip - naw, five minutes. Just buy some beer and burgers, inviteThat is good news!
> some friends and having flipping party.
> > 36 Sides - again, don't forget fairing time.I was planning on skipping fiberglass on the MDO plywood sides.
> > 36 Portside icebox/cabinets - the frames under the galley cabinets -Another benefit of using steel plate external ballast
> both sides - support the weight of the ballast.
> > 24 Hatch - the hatch took a while. I used two layers of 1/4 ply,I spent a ton of time on my 'bright finished' hatch on my Micro
> glassed it and used clear coat epoxy so I could varnish it. It looks
> great, but it took a while to fit the rail system so it all works
> smoothly.
Navigator, and now a year later, [though it looks nice], I sort of
regret committing to keeping the bright finish renewed. Time
could be saved using painted MDO hatches, I hope.
> > 8 Traveler - I didn't use a traveler.The PB&F writeup of the traveler mod seems optimistic, though
I wonder if one has yet been made?
> > 40 Tortoise tender - didn't do this at all. I bought a smallTortoise are such fun and capable boats!
> inflatable and called it a day.
Having just completed and launched my AS-29, I think these estimates
are a bit off.
For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
of weekends.)
All in all, it took just shy of 4 years of weekends, vacations and
holidays. I'm guessing about 2000 hours, rather than 1000. I could do
the next one faster, but not by half.
If you're seriously considering it, do it. Allow yourself lots of
time, and tell the family to forget you exist for a couple of years.
In the end, when you're out on the water breezing past the $100,000
sloops in light air, it will be worth it. And when those folks in the
expensive boats squeeze themselves into their V-berths, you'll be
stretched out in that queen-sized bed.
One more recommendation. When you order your sails or sail kit,
specify that the foot of the main should be "free" when not reefed. It
attaches only and the tack and clew, leaving the full length of the
foot free. It allows lots of draft in the sail, giving incredible
light air performance. This Saturday we had her out with virtually no
wind. Barely a ripple on the surface and we were doing 2 knots, easily
passing a Beneteau, upwind! And even with the almost nonexistant wind,
she tacks like a dream. (All this without the spinaker.)
Do it, and have fun. It's worth it.
FYI - Bolger's recommendations regarding the outboard are right on. I
put a 9.9HP 4-stroke on her and she does 5 to 6 knots with the engine
barely purring. Just choose your prop carefully. You don't want a prop
designed for high speed, but rather high thrust and low speed.
Look below on Bruce's estimate for some notes and comments I made.
are a bit off.
For one thing, the main mast is HUGE. It starts from a full 6"x6"
square at the base and tapers to 4" round at the top. It's over 29'
long, and with the counterweight, is over 400 lbs. Virtually all that
carving has to be done with draw knife and plane. Trust me, power
tools will ruin the job. It took me MONTHS. (Of course, that's months
of weekends.)
All in all, it took just shy of 4 years of weekends, vacations and
holidays. I'm guessing about 2000 hours, rather than 1000. I could do
the next one faster, but not by half.
If you're seriously considering it, do it. Allow yourself lots of
time, and tell the family to forget you exist for a couple of years.
In the end, when you're out on the water breezing past the $100,000
sloops in light air, it will be worth it. And when those folks in the
expensive boats squeeze themselves into their V-berths, you'll be
stretched out in that queen-sized bed.
One more recommendation. When you order your sails or sail kit,
specify that the foot of the main should be "free" when not reefed. It
attaches only and the tack and clew, leaving the full length of the
foot free. It allows lots of draft in the sail, giving incredible
light air performance. This Saturday we had her out with virtually no
wind. Barely a ripple on the surface and we were doing 2 knots, easily
passing a Beneteau, upwind! And even with the almost nonexistant wind,
she tacks like a dream. (All this without the spinaker.)
Do it, and have fun. It's worth it.
FYI - Bolger's recommendations regarding the outboard are right on. I
put a 9.9HP 4-stroke on her and she does 5 to 6 knots with the engine
barely purring. Just choose your prop carefully. You don't want a prop
designed for high speed, but rather high thrust and low speed.
Look below on Bruce's estimate for some notes and comments I made.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Here is my takeoff of estimate of manhours to build an AS-29
> =======
> 1,000 manhours
> 2 Frame A bottom
> 2 Frame B bottom
> 2 Frame C bottom
> 4 Frame D bottom
> 4 Frame E bottom
> 3 Frame F bottom
> 3 Frame G bottom
> 8 Chine logs - allow a bit more time here. Bending isn't fun, and
the logs will have to be scarfed for length.
> 4 board slot sides
> 36 Bottom panels - The bottom is two layers. After the dry fit,
you'll have to glue and bolt the first layer, then spread a ton of
thickened epoxy over everything and set in the second layer. Be sure
to have lots of heavy stuff for weight. I used the lead I had gathered
for ballast. (I didn't use the steel sheets, I had the older plans.)
Also, the glass on the bottom should be the 20 oz triax stuff. It
takes a LOT of epoxy to fill the weave. Count on about at least 6
coats. Then allow time for fairing and bottom paint. It's hell to
paint when it's right side up.
> 10 Bottom sides - Again, allow lots of fairing time if you wrap the
heavy glass around the chines and up the bottom sides.
> 24 Anti-plumphing
> 8 Flip - naw, five minutes. Just buy some beer and burgers, invite
some friends and having flipping party.
> 4 Frame A - These estimates are overly optimistic. You will have to
do a lot of fiddling to get everything to line up straight when you
start adding stringers. Allow lots of "adjustment" time.
> 4 Frame B
> 4 Frame C
> 4 Frame D
> 4 Frame E
> 4 Frame F
> 4 Frame G
> 36 Sides - again, don't forget fairing time.
> 24 'Dagger' Boards
> 16 Board well sides
> 48 Transom berths, drawers - these actually went fairly easily. I
did it in a little less time than this.
> 8 Galley floor
> 8 Cabin floor
> 8 Double berth
> 16 Aft bookshelf, drawer, ventbox - the ventbox gave me some
trouble. It takes some fiddling to get the slope right so it drains
properly.
> 12 Aft buoyancy boxes
> 12 Cockpit sole/sides
> 16 Rudder, tiller
> 6 Motor mount
> 6 Boomkin mounts - naw, these took me about 2 hours.
> 12 Mizzen tabernacle
> 16 Bureau, hangers
> 8 Cabin ladder
> 36 Starboard galley cabinets
> 36 Portside icebox/cabinets - the frames under the galley cabinets -
both sides - support the weight of the ballast. They have to be
strong. I used mortise and tenon joints and through bolted everything.
> 16 Drop leaf table
> 36 Heater, heater bins
> 36 Forward lockers/shelves
> 6 Forward vent boxes
> 24 Forward buoyancy
> 24 Main tabernacle - give some extra time here. These are heavy
timbers that have to be mounted PERFECTLY straight. They have to be
fitted water tight into the floatation cells, and have to be shaped to
the contour of the bottom. The groove at the top for the hinge-pin
must be perfectly positioned. It determines the rake of the mast. A
fraction of an inch here means many inches at the top of the mast.
> 40 Hull windows
> 24 Deck stringers
> 40 Decking
> 24 Midship deckhouse sides
> 12 Midship deckhouse roof
> 24 Hatch - the hatch took a while. I used two layers of 1/4 ply,
glassed it and used clear coat epoxy so I could varnish it. It looks
great, but it took a while to fit the rail system so it all works
smoothly.
> 8 Traveler - I didn't use a traveler. I used the "horse" recommended
in the original plan. A Gaff sail likes to be sheet low, and at a
downward angle. The traveler seems high, and too far centered to me.
It doesn't look like it will give a good sail shape on the big gaff
sail. Just my opinion, but based on sailing performance, I think I
made the right choice.
> 12 Cockpit backs & Lexan
> 40 Tortoise tender - didn't do this at all. I bought a small
inflatable and called it a day.
> 4 Tortoise chocks
> 24 Forward deckhouse sides
> 24 Forward hatch
> 12 Forward deckhouse roof
> 24 Mainmast - see comments above regarding mast - this is a big project.
> 16 Mizzen mast - not nearly as daunting a task as the main.
> 24 Boom/gaff - simple
> 4 Mizzen sprit - even simpler.
> 24 Rigging
> 16 Steel plate ballast - I used lead internal as per original plan.
It works fine and I now have NO through hull bolts. I hate the idea of
anything that can rust. Just my opinion.
> I don't think I see any time estimates for:Time estimates, ***well you know***, vary.
I tried to apply my own experience from my own
personal 'learning curve' building boats so far.
Clearly an AS-29 could take twice that 1000 hours.
And I don't think that an AS29 could be realised for much
less than 1000 hours, IOW, I was thinking quick and
dirty when I put together than estimate.
Of your list, I think that most of the activities you
mentioned are 'incidental' to the work items I listed
except for:
Interior cushions / upholstry.
I also forgot, the couple days it would take to
build the cribbing to hoist and set the hull on the rental
flatbed truck.
The AS-29 I have in mind would use painted MDO plywood
and have fiberglass only on the underwater portion and the
top deck, and I think I allowed hours for that work, with no
dilly dally time.
Minimal electronics, lights would be kerosene lanterns.
No plumbing, the basins would be just that.
The sails would be outsourced to a sail loft,
and perhaps I should add two days 16 hours
for that shopping and the rigging.
I would hope that some of the work items might come in under
the estimated hours, certainly some will exceed the estimated
hours, that I know!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Matt DeLapp <matt+bolger@v...> wrote:
Shopping for the plywood
Buying the plwood
Hauling the Plwood
Unloading the plywood
And storage for the plywood
Shopping for all the framing lumber
Hauling it home and storaging etc
milling it down to the right shapes and sizes
Shopping for epoxies glues
its accesories, fillers
Shopping for glass
and glassing
Shopping for all the other acessories.
Arranging and organizing a building site/location
Sanding and filling and painting as you go along.
Finishing the spars and their fittings.
Speicalized fittings.
Final painting and sanding
Even then that just gives you the basic hull.
You still have final fitting out, painting, trim, sails and rigging,
hardware, ground tackle, interior finishing cushions, plumbing
electrical, electronics, trailer and a motor and fuel set-up
What would be the total hours spent by the time she makes her maiden
voyage?
Then somewhere along the line one must earn the money - after taxes -
for to pay for all hat stuff. Is that not calculated in?
Nels
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 09:03:02AM -0700, Bruce Hallman wrote:I don't think I see any time estimates for:
> > Here is my takeoff of estimate of manhours to build an AS-29
> > =======
> > 1,000 manhours
>
> Bruce,
>
> For someone with only a Tortoise built so far, your time
> estimates are fascinating. I'm really looking forward to
> your manhour estimate for Fiji :)
>
> Matt
Shopping for the plywood
Buying the plwood
Hauling the Plwood
Unloading the plywood
And storage for the plywood
Shopping for all the framing lumber
Hauling it home and storaging etc
milling it down to the right shapes and sizes
Shopping for epoxies glues
its accesories, fillers
Shopping for glass
and glassing
Shopping for all the other acessories.
Arranging and organizing a building site/location
Sanding and filling and painting as you go along.
Finishing the spars and their fittings.
Speicalized fittings.
Final painting and sanding
Even then that just gives you the basic hull.
You still have final fitting out, painting, trim, sails and rigging,
hardware, ground tackle, interior finishing cushions, plumbing
electrical, electronics, trailer and a motor and fuel set-up
What would be the total hours spent by the time she makes her maiden
voyage?
Then somewhere along the line one must earn the money - after taxes -
for to pay for all hat stuff. Is that not calculated in?
Nels
On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 09:03:02AM -0700, Bruce Hallman wrote:
For someone with only a Tortoise built so far, your time
estimates are fascinating. I'm really looking forward to
your manhour estimate for Fiji :)
Matt
> Here is my takeoff of estimate of manhours to build an AS-29Bruce,
> =======
> 1,000 manhours
For someone with only a Tortoise built so far, your time
estimates are fascinating. I'm really looking forward to
your manhour estimate for Fiji :)
Matt
Here is my takeoff of estimate of manhours to build an AS-29
=======
1,000 manhours
2 Frame A bottom
2 Frame B bottom
2 Frame C bottom
4 Frame D bottom
4 Frame E bottom
3 Frame F bottom
3 Frame G bottom
8 Chine logs
4 board slot sides
36 Bottom panels
10 Bottom sides
24 Anti-plumphing
8 Flip
4 Frame A
4 Frame B
4 Frame C
4 Frame D
4 Frame E
4 Frame F
4 Frame G
36 Sides
24 'Dagger' Boards
16 Board well sides
48 Transom berths, drawers
8 Galley floor
8 Cabin floor
8 Double berth
16 Aft bookshelf, drawer, ventbox
12 Aft buoyancy boxes
12 Cockpit sole/sides
16 Rudder, tiller
6 Motor mount
6 Boomkin mounts
12 Mizzen tabernacle
16 Bureau, hangers
8 Cabin ladder
36 Starboard galley cabinets
36 Portside icebox/cabinets
16 Drop leaf table
36 Heater, heater bins
36 Forward lockers/shelves
6 Forward vent boxes
24 Forward buoyancy
24 Main tabernacle
40 Hull windows
24 Deck stringers
40 Decking
24 Midship deckhouse sides
12 Midship deckhouse roof
24 Hatch
8 Traveler
12 Cockpit backs & Lexan
40 Tortoise tender
4 Tortoise chocks
24 Forward deckhouse sides
24 Forward hatch
12 Forward deckhouse roof
24 Mainmast
16 Mizzen mast
24 Boom/gaff
4 Mizzen sprit
24 Rigging
16 Steel plate ballast
=======
1,000 manhours
2 Frame A bottom
2 Frame B bottom
2 Frame C bottom
4 Frame D bottom
4 Frame E bottom
3 Frame F bottom
3 Frame G bottom
8 Chine logs
4 board slot sides
36 Bottom panels
10 Bottom sides
24 Anti-plumphing
8 Flip
4 Frame A
4 Frame B
4 Frame C
4 Frame D
4 Frame E
4 Frame F
4 Frame G
36 Sides
24 'Dagger' Boards
16 Board well sides
48 Transom berths, drawers
8 Galley floor
8 Cabin floor
8 Double berth
16 Aft bookshelf, drawer, ventbox
12 Aft buoyancy boxes
12 Cockpit sole/sides
16 Rudder, tiller
6 Motor mount
6 Boomkin mounts
12 Mizzen tabernacle
16 Bureau, hangers
8 Cabin ladder
36 Starboard galley cabinets
36 Portside icebox/cabinets
16 Drop leaf table
36 Heater, heater bins
36 Forward lockers/shelves
6 Forward vent boxes
24 Forward buoyancy
24 Main tabernacle
40 Hull windows
24 Deck stringers
40 Decking
24 Midship deckhouse sides
12 Midship deckhouse roof
24 Hatch
8 Traveler
12 Cockpit backs & Lexan
40 Tortoise tender
4 Tortoise chocks
24 Forward deckhouse sides
24 Forward hatch
12 Forward deckhouse roof
24 Mainmast
16 Mizzen mast
24 Boom/gaff
4 Mizzen sprit
24 Rigging
16 Steel plate ballast
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
But don't blame me, if the catch
Any photos of your baby? The boat I mean.
Nels
wrote:
But don't blame me, if the catch
> quickly turns into a mutiny! Vietnamese females are known to play theSame thing over there too eh? Damn!
> slave initially, until they seize the first opportunity to take
> control of the helm.
Any photos of your baby? The boat I mean.
Nels
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
Alternatively, it might fit into a 40' Container?
I could look to get you permissions to enter Vietnamese waters to fish
for "chicks in slinky long smocks". But don't blame me, if the catch
quickly turns into a mutiny! Vietnamese females are known to play the
slave initially, until they seize the first opportunity to take
control of the helm.
But - just to come back to topic again - once your Windermere is in
Vietnamese waters, you could give some boat building classes in Hanoi
- what better motiviation! Something like development aid...
And your shed seems to be the best preparation for our climate already!
Cheers,
Stefan
promising in such a case to ensure enough flow of the cure to keep the
temperatures in the green area.
> > Stefan...
> > wishing to have his baby in your sauna shed,
> > so that we could share a cure or two....
>
> For Stefan:
>
> Here I stand guilty as charged
> happy inside and feeling re-charged
> but a baby in my shed
> to shit and be fed
> makes me think
> I'll take the cures instead!
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter"who needs kids anyway(except the Scots) I prefer chicks in
> slinky long smocks" Lenihan, just about to be released from the asylum
> for more madness along the St.Lawrence Seaway and a cold case of the
> cures :-) Thanks Stefan!
> but a baby in my shedWell, my current boatlet would look like a baby against your monster ;)
> to shit and be fed
> Peter"who ... prefers chicks in slinky long smocks" LenihanCan Windermere cross the Bering Straits?
Alternatively, it might fit into a 40' Container?
I could look to get you permissions to enter Vietnamese waters to fish
for "chicks in slinky long smocks". But don't blame me, if the catch
quickly turns into a mutiny! Vietnamese females are known to play the
slave initially, until they seize the first opportunity to take
control of the helm.
But - just to come back to topic again - once your Windermere is in
Vietnamese waters, you could give some boat building classes in Hanoi
- what better motiviation! Something like development aid...
And your shed seems to be the best preparation for our climate already!
Cheers,
Stefan
promising in such a case to ensure enough flow of the cure to keep the
temperatures in the green area.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
Here I stand guilty as charged
happy inside and feeling re-charged
but a baby in my shed
to shit and be fed
makes me think
I'll take the cures instead!
Sincerely,
Peter"who needs kids anyway(except the Scots) I prefer chicks in
slinky long smocks" Lenihan, just about to be released from the asylum
for more madness along the St.Lawrence Seaway and a cold case of the
cures :-) Thanks Stefan!
wrote:
>> [all raise]back.
> Verdict: Guilty on all accounts.
> Punishment: hop juice until he takes that "I'll n'er do it agin"
> alternatively:For Stefan:
> Cure for (or was that against?) all "semi-permanent" states: cold,
> ripened hop tea ad gusto.
>
> ;)
>
> Stefan
> wishing to have his baby in your sauna shed, so that we could share a
> cure or two....
Here I stand guilty as charged
happy inside and feeling re-charged
but a baby in my shed
to shit and be fed
makes me think
I'll take the cures instead!
Sincerely,
Peter"who needs kids anyway(except the Scots) I prefer chicks in
slinky long smocks" Lenihan, just about to be released from the asylum
for more madness along the St.Lawrence Seaway and a cold case of the
cures :-) Thanks Stefan!
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
Verdict: Guilty on all accounts.
Punishment: hop juice until he takes that "I'll n'er do it agin" back.
alternatively:
Cure for (or was that against?) all "semi-permanent" states: cold,
ripened hop tea ad gusto.
;)
Stefan
wishing to have his baby in your sauna shed, so that we could share a
cure or two....
> --- "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...> wrote:[all raise]
> > >
> > Make that "cold hop teas". Compare how they make juice (squeezing
> > liquid out of fruits) and tea (boiling herbs in water, then take
> the
> > herbs out) and you'll prefer to drink ripened/aged hop tea, not hop
> > juice ;)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Stefan
> > from the humid Hanoi, with temperatures forecast for today: 38°C.
>
>
> Stefan,
>
> You are no doubt correct and I am wrong,technically. However,
> in my defense,I would like to plea the following:
> Semi-permanent insanity
> Semi-permanent inhibriation and
> Semi-permanent"artistic license"
>
> failing any or all of the above pleas, I fall to my knees begging
> your indulgence upon my poor pickled head and wish to blame any and
> all of my short-comings(past,present and future) on the demon drink
> and Bruce Hector :-D
>
> Sincerely and most repentedly,
>
> Peter "I swear I'll n'er do it agin, yer Honour!"
Verdict: Guilty on all accounts.
Punishment: hop juice until he takes that "I'll n'er do it agin" back.
alternatively:
Cure for (or was that against?) all "semi-permanent" states: cold,
ripened hop tea ad gusto.
;)
Stefan
wishing to have his baby in your sauna shed, so that we could share a
cure or two....
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
You are no doubt correct and I am wrong,technically. However,
in my defense,I would like to plea the following:
Semi-permanent insanity
Semi-permanent inhibriation and
Semi-permanent"artistic license"
failing any or all of the above pleas, I fall to my knees begging
your indulgence upon my poor pickled head and wish to blame any and
all of my short-comings(past,present and future) on the demon drink
and Bruce Hector :-D
Sincerely and most repentedly,
Peter"I swear I'll n'er do it agin,yer Honour!" Lenihan, with a
forcasted humidex high of 43C making 38C sound almost refreshing :-)
wrote:
> >the
> Make that "cold hop teas". Compare how they make juice (squeezing
> liquid out of fruits) and tea (boiling herbs in water, then take
> herbs out) and you'll prefer to drink ripened/aged hop tea, not hopStefan,
> juice ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Stefan
> from the humid Hanoi, with temperatures forecast for today: 38°C.
You are no doubt correct and I am wrong,technically. However,
in my defense,I would like to plea the following:
Semi-permanent insanity
Semi-permanent inhibriation and
Semi-permanent"artistic license"
failing any or all of the above pleas, I fall to my knees begging
your indulgence upon my poor pickled head and wish to blame any and
all of my short-comings(past,present and future) on the demon drink
and Bruce Hector :-D
Sincerely and most repentedly,
Peter"I swear I'll n'er do it agin,yer Honour!" Lenihan, with a
forcasted humidex high of 43C making 38C sound almost refreshing :-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
I appreciate your
> efforts and thank you for the "Spectator Sport" .
Always a pleasure ta serve,Harry :-)
It is a strange and wonderful thing to be inspired by the efforts of
others,as I many times have,over this thing called"the Net" and to
serve as same for yet many others still,most of whom I'll never know
or meet.Odd indeed to be so isolated,almost in a vacume,while being
surround by untold numbers of fellow folks spread out thinly around
the globe tied together only by electronic pulses........
Peter "glad I'm not an Eskimo" Lenihan,feeling the coming on of a
fierce thirst as the sun heroically breaks over another muggy morning
horizon and begins its' record breaking feat of pumping that little
mercury blob over the 50C. mark.......
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
liquid out of fruits) and tea (boiling herbs in water, then take the
herbs out) and you'll prefer to drink ripened/aged hop tea, not hop
juice ;)
Cheers,
Stefan
from the humid Hanoi, with temperatures forecast for today: 38°C.
> Peter Lenihan,... consumer of cold hop juices ...Make that "cold hop teas". Compare how they make juice (squeezing
liquid out of fruits) and tea (boiling herbs in water, then take the
herbs out) and you'll prefer to drink ripened/aged hop tea, not hop
juice ;)
Cheers,
Stefan
from the humid Hanoi, with temperatures forecast for today: 38°C.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
to see one of your"spread sheets" for the building of a Windermere,you
know,where you estimate the materials,cost and time.It would be
interesting to compare notes :-) Still thinking about building a
Champlain,one day?
Cheers!
Peter Lenihan,present contender for slowest builder on group
award,right up there with the best of them :-)
>> Wow, what a boat, impressive!Thanks Bruce! Can't wait to launch her early next summer too! I'd love
to see one of your"spread sheets" for the building of a Windermere,you
know,where you estimate the materials,cost and time.It would be
interesting to compare notes :-) Still thinking about building a
Champlain,one day?
Cheers!
Peter Lenihan,present contender for slowest builder on group
award,right up there with the best of them :-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@y...> wrote:
No worries if Bruce tries to land aircraft on her...
we mix a little latex paint with water in a hand pump "bug sprayer"
and spritz the exterior of the poly roof in a light "splatter"
pattern. Think "dappled sunlight".
Hi Rick,
Thanks,but I sure wish you had not brought up the notion of
BBB(Big Bad Bruce) attempting to land on the roof........you know
how easily he can be influenced! Besides,I'll have my hands full
just trying to repel boarders from the traditional routes(over the
side,over the stern and over the bow) without having to keep my eyes
on the sky too :-) and to think that it was up on the roof where I
was/am planning on keeping a couple of kegs liquid madness..........
I appreciate your suggestion for lowering the heat in my
bowshed.A friend who works in a greenhouse,"lent" me a 5 gallon pail
of a product they use called"Liquid Shade".According to the label,it
can reduce daytime heating by 70% if applied properly.Upon luring a
willing wench (she offered to help),and setting her up with the
neccesary tools,she did the whole roof in one morning.Early in the
summer season the effect was dramatic,especially as I had yet to
tackle the roof.However,with summer full on and myself working up
at "attic" height,the heat is impressive to unbearable.I shudder to
think what it would be like without any Liquid Shade!
What makes this whole venture workable however,are the
happy memories of working inside while it was something like -27 C.
outside this past winter.Boy,could I have used some"Liquid Sun"
then! That and a virtually endless supply of ice chilled beer help
ease the "pain" somewhat(considerably!).Several more weeks and the
big heat will begin its'slow decent to frozen hell and I'll be able
ta bitch about the cold :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Northern clown,heat-wimp and un-tethered consumer of
cold hop juices various(BBB would be proud!),from along the
sweltering,muggy,bug infested shores of the St.Lawrence Seaway....
Peter
Most people just don't realize the commitment and time required for a
project the size of Windermere or Double Eagle. I appreciate your
efforts and thank you for the "Spectator Sport" . I get to see a major
Bolger project without lifting a finger other the the ones to the
keyboard to say thanks.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
Most people just don't realize the commitment and time required for a
project the size of Windermere or Double Eagle. I appreciate your
efforts and thank you for the "Spectator Sport" . I get to see a major
Bolger project without lifting a finger other the the ones to the
keyboard to say thanks.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
>Hi Bolgerados,
>
> For those following my glacial progress, I've added the
>latest batch of photos over in the Bolger 4 files section for your
>amusement.This will also take you there if you are registered:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/WINDERMERE/
>
> Mind you,latest in this case does not mean or reflect the
>most recent progress since it takes awhile to fill up a roll of old
>fashioned film.The images presented are now several weeks old :-)
>
> Were it not for the fact that I have one more winter to
>weather before launching,I would dearly love to haul the bowshed
>roof right off her as the day time temps. of late have been
>consistantly above 47 degree C. up at roof top level. The epoxy
>really runs like water in those temperatures and must be stored
>under the boat to keep it cool enough to get nice working times out
>of mixed batches.
>
> The next roll of film will show the foam installation and
>final roof top presentation but still many shots to go before that
>roll is finsihed :-(
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Peter Lenihan,sweating brooks,creeks and rivers up here along the
>amazonian banks of the St.Lawrence and yet still tipping the scales
>at the same old number.....does beer really contain that many
>calories?
>
>
>
>
>
> For those following my glacial progress, I've added theWow, what a boat, impressive!
> latest batch of photos over in the Bolger 4 files section for your
> amusement.
Thanks Peter, nice pics.
That sure is one hellforstout roof. No worries if Bruce tries to land aircraft on her...
Perhaps your winter is too close at hand to consider, but out here in the land of the big fireball in the sky, (108 F yesterday) we mix a little latex paint with water in a hand pump "bug sprayer" and spritz the exterior of the poly roof in a light "splatter" pattern. Think "dappled sunlight". Makes for a huge reduction in daily heat gain. As the little spots of diluted paint don't adhere well to the poly it wears off in a few months. Or you could always parbuckle an old tarp over the top if you only need a few days of heat relief.....
Rick
Were it not for the fact that I have one more winter to
weather before launching,I would dearly love to haul the bowshed
roof right off her as the day time temps. of late have been
consistantly above 47 degree C. up at roof top level.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That sure is one hellforstout roof. No worries if Bruce tries to land aircraft on her...
Perhaps your winter is too close at hand to consider, but out here in the land of the big fireball in the sky, (108 F yesterday) we mix a little latex paint with water in a hand pump "bug sprayer" and spritz the exterior of the poly roof in a light "splatter" pattern. Think "dappled sunlight". Makes for a huge reduction in daily heat gain. As the little spots of diluted paint don't adhere well to the poly it wears off in a few months. Or you could always parbuckle an old tarp over the top if you only need a few days of heat relief.....
Rick
Were it not for the fact that I have one more winter to
weather before launching,I would dearly love to haul the bowshed
roof right off her as the day time temps. of late have been
consistantly above 47 degree C. up at roof top level.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The pictures posted all show a july 16 date and are best viewed
chronologicaly,starting at the bottom of the page with photo number
F1000027 and backwards up to photo number f1000002. For the
antipodeans amongst us,like Hugo and Don,the photos may already arrive
there up side down in order :-D
Peter Lenihan
chronologicaly,starting at the bottom of the page with photo number
F1000027 and backwards up to photo number f1000002. For the
antipodeans amongst us,like Hugo and Don,the photos may already arrive
there up side down in order :-D
Peter Lenihan
Hi Bolgerados,
For those following my glacial progress, I've added the
latest batch of photos over in the Bolger 4 files section for your
amusement.This will also take you there if you are registered:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/WINDERMERE/
Mind you,latest in this case does not mean or reflect the
most recent progress since it takes awhile to fill up a roll of old
fashioned film.The images presented are now several weeks old :-)
Were it not for the fact that I have one more winter to
weather before launching,I would dearly love to haul the bowshed
roof right off her as the day time temps. of late have been
consistantly above 47 degree C. up at roof top level. The epoxy
really runs like water in those temperatures and must be stored
under the boat to keep it cool enough to get nice working times out
of mixed batches.
The next roll of film will show the foam installation and
final roof top presentation but still many shots to go before that
roll is finsihed :-(
Enjoy!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,sweating brooks,creeks and rivers up here along the
amazonian banks of the St.Lawrence and yet still tipping the scales
at the same old number.....does beer really contain that many
calories?
For those following my glacial progress, I've added the
latest batch of photos over in the Bolger 4 files section for your
amusement.This will also take you there if you are registered:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/WINDERMERE/
Mind you,latest in this case does not mean or reflect the
most recent progress since it takes awhile to fill up a roll of old
fashioned film.The images presented are now several weeks old :-)
Were it not for the fact that I have one more winter to
weather before launching,I would dearly love to haul the bowshed
roof right off her as the day time temps. of late have been
consistantly above 47 degree C. up at roof top level. The epoxy
really runs like water in those temperatures and must be stored
under the boat to keep it cool enough to get nice working times out
of mixed batches.
The next roll of film will show the foam installation and
final roof top presentation but still many shots to go before that
roll is finsihed :-(
Enjoy!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,sweating brooks,creeks and rivers up here along the
amazonian banks of the St.Lawrence and yet still tipping the scales
at the same old number.....does beer really contain that many
calories?