Re: [bolger] Ferrocement boats?
The alkalinity of cement is allegedly the foundation of Tnemec (cement
spelled backwards) paints of Kansas City. I've never used it, but do
know the University of Missouri swears by it for the insides of tanks.
The inventor and founder was inspired by exposed rebar in a silo
partially destroyed by explosion, I believe is the story. After some
number of years exposed to the elements, the steel didn't rust.
Somewhat off topic, but something I've always thought interesting.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
spelled backwards) paints of Kansas City. I've never used it, but do
know the University of Missouri swears by it for the insides of tanks.
The inventor and founder was inspired by exposed rebar in a silo
partially destroyed by explosion, I believe is the story. After some
number of years exposed to the elements, the steel didn't rust.
Somewhat off topic, but something I've always thought interesting.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life of
> > ferrocement boats?
> > -- Sue --
>
> AKA steel reinforced concrete
>
> The steel is suseptible to electrolisis, and needs
> 'cathodic protection' like any steel in a boat hull.
>
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>
wrote:
Does everyone out there know the quick and easy way to
Take a couple of bearings a few minutes apart (assuming you have a few
minutes). If the bearing doesn't change, you're on a collision course.
wrote:
Does everyone out there know the quick and easy way to
> determine if you are on a collision course with anothervessel? .........
Take a couple of bearings a few minutes apart (assuming you have a few
minutes). If the bearing doesn't change, you're on a collision course.
> Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life ofAKA steel reinforced concrete
> ferrocement boats?
> -- Sue --
The steel is suseptible to electrolisis, and needs
'cathodic protection' like any steel in a boat hull.
Have you ever been at sea, at night and see a large tanker or freighter
running about 35 mph on auto pilot without anyone visible on deck or on
the bridge? They run on auto pilot and I would hope they occasionally
look at radar but I assume he is drinking coffee in the galley. By the
time the ship appears on the horizon it seems like they are on top of you
in a couple of min. and often close enough to see the whites of his eyes,
if any are to be seen! A small boat must not show up on radar soon enough
to cover the coffee breaks, even when made of steel and concrete. What
do you think? Does everyone out there know the quick and easy way to
determine if you are on a collision course with another vessel? .........
Deathly important in this case!
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 04:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Philip Smith <pbs@...>
writes:
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
snip
Everything Harry says about good ferrocement boats
being good boats is true. You can often find them
selling for a nickle on the dollar.
There was a story in, I believe, Latitude 38, a couple
of years back about a guy who disappeared at sea in
his ferrocement boat. He'd owned it for years and
sailed it all over. I don't believe that he'd built
it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
running about 35 mph on auto pilot without anyone visible on deck or on
the bridge? They run on auto pilot and I would hope they occasionally
look at radar but I assume he is drinking coffee in the galley. By the
time the ship appears on the horizon it seems like they are on top of you
in a couple of min. and often close enough to see the whites of his eyes,
if any are to be seen! A small boat must not show up on radar soon enough
to cover the coffee breaks, even when made of steel and concrete. What
do you think? Does everyone out there know the quick and easy way to
determine if you are on a collision course with another vessel? .........
Deathly important in this case!
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 04:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Philip Smith <pbs@...>
writes:
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
snip
> Ferrocement doesn't appear to have any issues withSnip
> cold structurally,
> better hope for good insulation. Most ferrocement
> boats were built a
> while back. It is my opinion that if a ferrocement
> hasn't shown any
> major faults by 20 years it is probably good to the
> end of next century.
Everything Harry says about good ferrocement boats
being good boats is true. You can often find them
selling for a nickle on the dollar.
There was a story in, I believe, Latitude 38, a couple
of years back about a guy who disappeared at sea in
his ferrocement boat. He'd owned it for years and
sailed it all over. I don't believe that he'd built
it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
snip
Everything Harry says about good ferrocement boats
being good boats is true. You can often find them
selling for a nickle on the dollar.
There was a story in, I believe, Latitude 38, a couple
of years back about a guy who disappeared at sea in
his ferrocement boat. He'd owned it for years and
sailed it all over. I don't believe that he'd built
it.
Someone found his built in ice box floating around. It
was too big to have fit through the companionway, so
the boat must have broken apart. No doubt some long
standing construction flaw had finally been hidden
long enough.
Mere time afloat and even a record of passages made
isn't a guarantee of a sound ferrocement boat. As far
as I'm aware there's no way to adequately survey the
ferrocement parts, like the hull and deck of a
ferrocement boat to determine if it is sound.
Phil Smith
snip
> Ferrocement doesn't appear to have any issues withSnip
> cold structurally,
> better hope for good insulation. Most ferrocement
> boats were built a
> while back. It is my opinion that if a ferrocement
> hasn't shown any
> major faults by 20 years it is probably good to the
> end of next century.
Everything Harry says about good ferrocement boats
being good boats is true. You can often find them
selling for a nickle on the dollar.
There was a story in, I believe, Latitude 38, a couple
of years back about a guy who disappeared at sea in
his ferrocement boat. He'd owned it for years and
sailed it all over. I don't believe that he'd built
it.
Someone found his built in ice box floating around. It
was too big to have fit through the companionway, so
the boat must have broken apart. No doubt some long
standing construction flaw had finally been hidden
long enough.
Mere time afloat and even a record of passages made
isn't a guarantee of a sound ferrocement boat. As far
as I'm aware there's no way to adequately survey the
ferrocement parts, like the hull and deck of a
ferrocement boat to determine if it is sound.
Phil Smith
So maybe an old one that doesn't show any problems could be a good
buy, having had plenty of time to fall apart if it had been poorly
constructed.
Howard
buy, having had plenty of time to fall apart if it had been poorly
constructed.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> The real problem with ferrocement boats is resale
> value.
>
> A properly designed and constructed ferrocement boat
> should be an excellent vessel. It is difficult to
> determine if a ferrocement boat was properly
> constructed. Difficult is an understatement,
> impossible is closer to it.
>
> Ferrocement boats got their bad reputation when, back
> in the 60's, hippies and wanna be hippies built
> ferrocement hulls using water pipe and chicken wire as
> their armature. The armature is the form that holds
> the cement. The armature is the ferro part of
> ferrocement.
I have been on vacation so others may have covered this better. At one
time I was very interested in ferrocement. Lots of very strongly held
opinions pro and con. A lot of the bad reputation came from
misrepresentation on the ease of construction, it is very man hour
intensive. It also requires lots of work to get to a decent finish.
There were many hulls abandoned by amateur builders in various levels of
completion. Because these hulls are of durable materials they get to sit
around and be eyesores for decades. There have been semi finished hulls
abandoned on anchor and at moorings that have sat for years building up
growth but their bilges are still dry.
It is essential that the layup be done properly, all at one time and be
continuous. There were some mason's or plasterers that specialized in
doing ferrocement boats and they produced some very good work.
Ferrocement doesn't appear to have any issues with cold structurally,
better hope for good insulation. Most ferrocement boats were built a
while back. It is my opinion that if a ferrocement hasn't shown any
major faults by 20 years it is probably good to the end of next century.
I would look for one with a ferrocement deck, the plywood ones usually
have rot issues. It is a buyers market because ferrocement has such a
bad rep in this country. You can find them well equipped for prices that
would allow you to part them out for a profit. I think they are a good
buy if you want a liveaboard and are pretty sure you will be on board
for the next 20 years. If you do basic maintenance you just don't have
to worry about the hulls. I would plan on selling in Australia, New
Zealand or Europe.
I would not expect sparkling performance from most designs. I saw a
couple by Bruce Bingham that looked like they might go well. Bruce has
written the best book on ferrocement building, a good read if you want
to see how it should be done.
Yachtworld allows you to use ferrocement construction as a search
criteria.
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
time I was very interested in ferrocement. Lots of very strongly held
opinions pro and con. A lot of the bad reputation came from
misrepresentation on the ease of construction, it is very man hour
intensive. It also requires lots of work to get to a decent finish.
There were many hulls abandoned by amateur builders in various levels of
completion. Because these hulls are of durable materials they get to sit
around and be eyesores for decades. There have been semi finished hulls
abandoned on anchor and at moorings that have sat for years building up
growth but their bilges are still dry.
It is essential that the layup be done properly, all at one time and be
continuous. There were some mason's or plasterers that specialized in
doing ferrocement boats and they produced some very good work.
Ferrocement doesn't appear to have any issues with cold structurally,
better hope for good insulation. Most ferrocement boats were built a
while back. It is my opinion that if a ferrocement hasn't shown any
major faults by 20 years it is probably good to the end of next century.
I would look for one with a ferrocement deck, the plywood ones usually
have rot issues. It is a buyers market because ferrocement has such a
bad rep in this country. You can find them well equipped for prices that
would allow you to part them out for a profit. I think they are a good
buy if you want a liveaboard and are pretty sure you will be on board
for the next 20 years. If you do basic maintenance you just don't have
to worry about the hulls. I would plan on selling in Australia, New
Zealand or Europe.
I would not expect sparkling performance from most designs. I saw a
couple by Bruce Bingham that looked like they might go well. Bruce has
written the best book on ferrocement building, a good read if you want
to see how it should be done.
Yachtworld allows you to use ferrocement construction as a search
criteria.
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
>Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life of
>ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
>temperature cycles?
>
>Just wondering....
>
> -- Sue --
>
>
>
The real problem with ferrocement boats is resale
value.
A properly designed and constructed ferrocement boat
should be an excellent vessel. It is difficult to
determine if a ferrocement boat was properly
constructed. Difficult is an understatement,
impossible is closer to it.
Ferrocement boats got their bad reputation when, back
in the 60's, hippies and wanna be hippies built
ferrocement hulls using water pipe and chicken wire as
their armature. The armature is the form that holds
the cement. The armature is the ferro part of
ferrocement.
Unfortunately for those seeking a free lunch in the
boatbuilding department TANSTAAFL applies to
ferrocement boats just as it does to plywood boats or
boats made out of anything but dreams. The armature
must be carefully constructed and tied together. The
cement must be carefully and continously applied
through the armature. No gaps or pauses permitted.
The upshot is that while excellent vessels can be
bulit of ferrocement, they weren't very often.
Platt Monfort of the Geodesic boats invented a wire
planking system to facillitate making the armateur
-
value.
A properly designed and constructed ferrocement boat
should be an excellent vessel. It is difficult to
determine if a ferrocement boat was properly
constructed. Difficult is an understatement,
impossible is closer to it.
Ferrocement boats got their bad reputation when, back
in the 60's, hippies and wanna be hippies built
ferrocement hulls using water pipe and chicken wire as
their armature. The armature is the form that holds
the cement. The armature is the ferro part of
ferrocement.
Unfortunately for those seeking a free lunch in the
boatbuilding department TANSTAAFL applies to
ferrocement boats just as it does to plywood boats or
boats made out of anything but dreams. The armature
must be carefully constructed and tied together. The
cement must be carefully and continously applied
through the armature. No gaps or pauses permitted.
The upshot is that while excellent vessels can be
bulit of ferrocement, they weren't very often.
Platt Monfort of the Geodesic boats invented a wire
planking system to facillitate making the armateur
-
Susan,
The following URL has everything you ever want to know about
ferrocement boat building:
<http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/V9468E/v9468e01.htm#TopOfPage>
BryanSwinney
The following URL has everything you ever want to know about
ferrocement boat building:
<http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/V9468E/v9468e01.htm#TopOfPage>
BryanSwinney
Here on the Hudson, we have a famous boat "Sojourner Truth." One of at
least 3 Hudson River Sloop replicas ("Clearwater" and "Woody Guthrie"
being the other 2) the "Truth" was built of ferro-cement. She's been
afloat now for over 20 years, so I guess these boats hold up pretty
well. Here's a link:
http://www.ferrysloops.org/about_us.html
least 3 Hudson River Sloop replicas ("Clearwater" and "Woody Guthrie"
being the other 2) the "Truth" was built of ferro-cement. She's been
afloat now for over 20 years, so I guess these boats hold up pretty
well. Here's a link:
http://www.ferrysloops.org/about_us.html
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life of
> ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
> temperature cycles?
>
> Just wondering....
>
> -- Sue --
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
Susan Davis wrote:
late 1970s. It was eventually abandoned by him in the early 1980s after
he completed the hull and realised that there was no way on Earth he
could afford to fit it out with rigging, tankage, etc. As far as I'm
aware the hull is still in existence and looks like a boat despite being
basically left to it's fate. Apparently it does have a tree growing
through it these days which will I presume eventually break it up a fair
bit, but if you don't allow saplings to take root in the cockpit then
you'll probably be fine.
I'm also aware of at least one surviving ferocement narrowboat that's
over 80 years old and has probably been in the water for the vast
majority of that time with little or no maintenance.
Both of these are in the UK, and so have experienced freezing conditions
on a fairly regular basis (including water freezing inside them), though
nothing like as cold as where you are. I suspect my dad's boat will
provide archaeologists with an intriguing puzzle in a few
hundred/thousand years time - it's near Stourbridge in the Midlands,
about as far from the sea as it's possible to get in the UK. (I think if
the plans had ever gotten as far as launching he was intending to put it
on a low loader and drive it to Stourport on Severn, where it could be
craned in and sailed down the river to the Bristol Channel. So not quite
as mad as it might look at first glance).
I hope that's of some use to you,
Dan
> Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life ofMy late father started building a 45 foot ferrocement ketch during the
> ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
> temperature cycles?
late 1970s. It was eventually abandoned by him in the early 1980s after
he completed the hull and realised that there was no way on Earth he
could afford to fit it out with rigging, tankage, etc. As far as I'm
aware the hull is still in existence and looks like a boat despite being
basically left to it's fate. Apparently it does have a tree growing
through it these days which will I presume eventually break it up a fair
bit, but if you don't allow saplings to take root in the cockpit then
you'll probably be fine.
I'm also aware of at least one surviving ferocement narrowboat that's
over 80 years old and has probably been in the water for the vast
majority of that time with little or no maintenance.
Both of these are in the UK, and so have experienced freezing conditions
on a fairly regular basis (including water freezing inside them), though
nothing like as cold as where you are. I suspect my dad's boat will
provide archaeologists with an intriguing puzzle in a few
hundred/thousand years time - it's near Stourbridge in the Midlands,
about as far from the sea as it's possible to get in the UK. (I think if
the plans had ever gotten as far as launching he was intending to put it
on a low loader and drive it to Stourport on Severn, where it could be
craned in and sailed down the river to the Bristol Channel. So not quite
as mad as it might look at first glance).
I hope that's of some use to you,
Dan
The good ones seem to last many decades. Some information at
http://www.ferroboats.com/
The owner of the site runs a forum.
Howard
http://www.ferroboats.com/
The owner of the site runs a forum.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life of
> ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
> temperature cycles?
>
> Just wondering....
>
> -- Sue --
Does anyone know about the long-term maintenance and expected life of
ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
temperature cycles?
Just wondering....
-- Sue --
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
ferrocement boats? Do they have issues with cold weather and
temperature cycles?
Just wondering....
-- Sue --
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>