Re: small motorsailer update?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
100% compatible with the latest version of MS Office. But the
spreadsheet and word processor is just fine. Open Office is also more
compact, using less disk space.
Don
> I have been using Open Office for a couple of years at home. I havehad
> no compatibility issues going back and forth with MS Office at work.You
> just have to remember to save as a MS Office file if you are goingto
> use it in MS Office. Free atIn my experience, the PowerPoint portion of Open Office is not quite
>
>http://www.openoffice.org/
>
> HJ
>
100% compatible with the latest version of MS Office. But the
spreadsheet and word processor is just fine. Open Office is also more
compact, using less disk space.
Don
I have been using Open Office for a couple of years at home. I have had
no compatibility issues going back and forth with MS Office at work. You
just have to remember to save as a MS Office file if you are going to
use it in MS Office. Free at
http://www.openoffice.org/
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
no compatibility issues going back and forth with MS Office at work. You
just have to remember to save as a MS Office file if you are going to
use it in MS Office. Free at
http://www.openoffice.org/
HJ
Howard Stephenson wrote:
>To quote from Microsoft:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>"With Excel Viewer 2003, you can open, view, and print Excel
>workbooks, even if you don't have Excel installed. You can also copy
>data from Excel Viewer 2003 to another program. However, you cannot
>edit data, save a workbook, or create a new workbook."
>
>The viewer is a free download.
>
>Open Office is freeware that can read Excel files and provides most of
>that program's functionality, as well as that of Word etc.
>
>Howard
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Unfortunately I don't have Excel on my computer but can get
>>someone who has to print them out.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
Nels
wrote:
> To quote from Microsoft:of
>
> "With Excel Viewer 2003, you can open, view, and print Excel
> workbooks, even if you don't have Excel installed. You can also copy
> data from Excel Viewer 2003 to another program. However, you cannot
> edit data, save a workbook, or create a new workbook."
>
> The viewer is a free download.
>
> Open Office is freeware that can read Excel files and provides most
> that program's functionality, as well as that of Word etc.Thank you sir!
>
> Howard
Nels
To quote from Microsoft:
"With Excel Viewer 2003, you can open, view, and print Excel
workbooks, even if you don't have Excel installed. You can also copy
data from Excel Viewer 2003 to another program. However, you cannot
edit data, save a workbook, or create a new workbook."
The viewer is a free download.
Open Office is freeware that can read Excel files and provides most of
that program's functionality, as well as that of Word etc.
Howard
"With Excel Viewer 2003, you can open, view, and print Excel
workbooks, even if you don't have Excel installed. You can also copy
data from Excel Viewer 2003 to another program. However, you cannot
edit data, save a workbook, or create a new workbook."
The viewer is a free download.
Open Office is freeware that can read Excel files and provides most of
that program's functionality, as well as that of Word etc.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> Unfortunately I don't have Excel on my computer but can get
> someone who has to print them out.
Nels, I like the cargo boat, but she is too big to tow
behind a car, not because of her length, but because
of her beam. A thirty-foot stretched small
motorsailer would be the footprint of Topaz, which is
very easy to tow, as I have proved to myself over
thousands of miles. For me, a displacement hull needs
to be trailerable, unless I win the lottery and become
indepndantly wealthy so that work does not intrude on
life.
You are certainly right that a motorsailer scaled up
in all dimensions would be much more expensive to
build/run. I don't think that making her longer
without increasing beam or draft would result in a big
increase in cost, however.
Yahoo! Mail
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behind a car, not because of her length, but because
of her beam. A thirty-foot stretched small
motorsailer would be the footprint of Topaz, which is
very easy to tow, as I have proved to myself over
thousands of miles. For me, a displacement hull needs
to be trailerable, unless I win the lottery and become
indepndantly wealthy so that work does not intrude on
life.
You are certainly right that a motorsailer scaled up
in all dimensions would be much more expensive to
build/run. I don't think that making her longer
without increasing beam or draft would result in a big
increase in cost, however.
> Bolger has already designed a 30 footer and two__________________________________
> have been built -
> one in Alaska and another near Yellowknife in Canada
> I believe.
> However I would prefer 20 feet as the max I would
> want to tow any
> distance. (Would fit on a 16 foot car hauler.)
>
> I believe the motor access is ahead of the sealed
> footwell? Not sure
> though. Also any bigger and bulkier then everything
> else becomes
> that much more costly and out of my range. I wonder
> how much more
> the 30 footer costs to build and operate than a 20
> footer would?
>
> One needs bigger sails and motor, and larger trailer
> and tow vehicle
> just off the top.
>
> Twice as much maybe?
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
Bolger has already designed a 30 footer and two have been built -
one in Alaska and another near Yellowknife in Canada I believe.
Article in a recent MAIB and photo in a recent WB mag. It is the
MS30 Cargo boat. Bit of a cartoon here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/MS%20Cargo%20Boat/
If that doesn't work it is in the Bolger2 files "MS Cargo Boat". The
couple in Alaska are amazed at it's capabilities.
However I would prefer 20 feet as the max I would want to tow any
distance. (Would fit on a 16 foot car hauler.)
I believe the motor access is ahead of the sealed footwell? Not sure
though. Also any bigger and bulkier then everything else becomes
that much more costly and out of my range. I wonder how much more
the 30 footer costs to build and operate than a 20 footer would?
One needs bigger sails and motor, and larger trailer and tow vehicle
just off the top.
Twice as much maybe?
Nels
wrote:
> If I had the ability to redesign the boat, I would addHi Guys,
> several feet in lenghth under a pilothouse, with
> access to the engine under the pilothouse sole,
> leaving only tankage under the cockpit.
Bolger has already designed a 30 footer and two have been built -
one in Alaska and another near Yellowknife in Canada I believe.
Article in a recent MAIB and photo in a recent WB mag. It is the
MS30 Cargo boat. Bit of a cartoon here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/MS%20Cargo%20Boat/
If that doesn't work it is in the Bolger2 files "MS Cargo Boat". The
couple in Alaska are amazed at it's capabilities.
However I would prefer 20 feet as the max I would want to tow any
distance. (Would fit on a 16 foot car hauler.)
I believe the motor access is ahead of the sealed footwell? Not sure
though. Also any bigger and bulkier then everything else becomes
that much more costly and out of my range. I wonder how much more
the 30 footer costs to build and operate than a 20 footer would?
One needs bigger sails and motor, and larger trailer and tow vehicle
just off the top.
Twice as much maybe?
Nels
If I had the ability to redesign the boat, I would add
several feet in lenghth under a pilothouse, with
access to the engine under the pilothouse sole,
leaving only tankage under the cockpit. Of course, I
would want her as a motorboat only. To me the limit
on the size of this boat is trailerability, and the
cost increase of going to thirty feet would add a lot
of useable space, more speed, and to me would far
outweigh the modest increased cost. I love the look
of her, anyway.
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several feet in lenghth under a pilothouse, with
access to the engine under the pilothouse sole,
leaving only tankage under the cockpit. Of course, I
would want her as a motorboat only. To me the limit
on the size of this boat is trailerability, and the
cost increase of going to thirty feet would add a lot
of useable space, more speed, and to me would far
outweigh the modest increased cost. I love the look
of her, anyway.
> Looking more at that boat shape,__________________________________________________
> one would need to be at ease with
> the quality of the motor access,
> I know from my limited experience
> with inboard diesels, that easy,
> (well lit) access to the motor is not
> a luxury, but a necessity.
>
> I guess that the motor could be
> accessed by lifting the floorboards
> of the cockpit? But, Bolger calls
> for the cockpit footwell to be
> watertight. Hmm, gasketed?
>
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>...another few feet...Except for the increase in cost,
>Sam
regardless, another few feet
would improve this boat (and
for that matter, most boats.)
Looking more at that boat shape,
one would need to be at ease with
the quality of the motor access,
I know from my limited experience
with inboard diesels, that easy,
(well lit) access to the motor is not
a luxury, but a necessity.
I guess that the motor could be
accessed by lifting the floorboards
of the cockpit? But, Bolger calls
for the cockpit footwell to be
watertight. Hmm, gasketed?
I wonder what the advantage of keeping her so short
is. I wrote to PB some time ago, proposing
lengthening her toward maximum trailering lenghth (30'
or so) and making her a straight motor cruiser, but it
appears he has more work than he can handle at
present. Another few feet in cockpit with a shelter
cabin over and tankage under would turn her into a
long-legged cruiser.
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is. I wrote to PB some time ago, proposing
lengthening her toward maximum trailering lenghth (30'
or so) and making her a straight motor cruiser, but it
appears he has more work than he can handle at
present. Another few feet in cockpit with a shelter
cabin over and tankage under would turn her into a
long-legged cruiser.
> Looking at how perfectly the envelope of the boat__________________________________________________
> fits the occupants
> and the interior furnishings pictured, it's hard to
> see where *any*
> tanks would fit! Say the SMS could average 15
> mpg... the longest
> stretch on the West coast without a port or harbor
> is around 300
> miles, right? (Is it Ft. Bragg to Crescent City?)
> So that would
> imply a 25 gallon or so minimum fuel supply. With
> that box keel
> "footwell" running the length of the boat, there
> aren't many places
> available to squeeze that much fuel in, not to
> mention 40 gallons or
> so of water. Hmmm.
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
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> the longest stretch on the West coast without a port or harbor is around 300Not to mention, that to be prudent, you need to be able to weather outside
> miles, right?
> -Richard
sometimes when the surf can close the bar, I think, not that I have tried it.
http://hallman.org/sbj/74/small_motor_sailer.gif
I think that a tank could be put below a raised floor in the galley area,
and the galley headroom at the hatch could be raised 12" with a
simple 'doghouse'. Jugs of water could be stowed either side of the
motor.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Looking at how perfectly the envelope of the boat fits the occupants
and the interior furnishings pictured, it's hard to see where *any*
tanks would fit! Say the SMS could average 15 mpg... the longest
stretch on the West coast without a port or harbor is around 300
miles, right? (Is it Ft. Bragg to Crescent City?) So that would
imply a 25 gallon or so minimum fuel supply. With that box keel
"footwell" running the length of the boat, there aren't many places
available to squeeze that much fuel in, not to mention 40 gallons or
so of water. Hmmm.
-Richard
> The one problem for Westcoast coastal cruising, at leastGood point there, Bruce, that was one thing that had ocurred to me.
> from California through to Washington, is that you need
> more fuel capacity to span the long distances between ports.
>
Looking at how perfectly the envelope of the boat fits the occupants
and the interior furnishings pictured, it's hard to see where *any*
tanks would fit! Say the SMS could average 15 mpg... the longest
stretch on the West coast without a port or harbor is around 300
miles, right? (Is it Ft. Bragg to Crescent City?) So that would
imply a 25 gallon or so minimum fuel supply. With that box keel
"footwell" running the length of the boat, there aren't many places
available to squeeze that much fuel in, not to mention 40 gallons or
so of water. Hmmm.
-Richard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
<l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
That is great news that you are able to share offsets. Since it is
tack and tape construction, 1/4" tolerances could be accomodated
for. Unfortunately I don't have Excel on my computer but can get
someone who has to print them out.
I am wondering if that would provide enough information for Bruce
Hallman to be able to develop the panel shapes and/or make a model?
(Hint hint:-)
I would be interested in what you would suggest would be the
building sequence? The stem is simple as it is vertical. And the
transom and topside panels could be assembled inverted on a
strongback around perhaps three bulkheads and maybe two partial
bulkheads? The box keel is also pretty straighforward and could be
built upright like with Bee. But then I am at a loss as to being
able to visualize joining the two together with the bilge panels as
it does not seem that the bulkheads extend into the box keel to form
molds to support the bilge panels until they are attached. Or does
one build temporary molds to support the box keel and then close in
the bilge panels like on a several of the multi chine boats like
Bobcat?
What is the building sequence for Fast Motorsailor?
The hull is essentially a deep vee with the box keel over top of it
and a bottom part of the deep vee cut out.
If you could get some MDO shipped in would that be too expensive to
even consider? Or even cheap plywood to construct the hull shape and
glass it both inside and out and then finish it with a glass/foam
sandwich or even strip planking for the deck and cabin. I think 5/8"
MDO with a double course on the bottom of the keel would work.
I wonder how many would be interested in buying plans if they were
available? I figure half a dozen at least. Some people are wondering
how good a small displacement cruiser it would make for canals and
slow rivers and estuaries and not even install the sailplan?
The fact it has standing headroom the length of the cabin has to be
attractive. Although you will notice that the man standing up in the
cartoon has a rather flattened head:-)
Sincerely, Nels
<l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
> Don,Excel
>
> It does have a coach roof mounted tabernacle. I just uploaded an
> spreadsheet with the offsets scaled from the large cartoon plans Ifound in
> ordered years ago from PCB. I tried to be accurate and I'm sure the
> offsets are closer than 1/4-inch accuracy. The offsets can be
> the files section of Bolger5 in folder SBJ_SMMS.essay
>
> There is nothing I would want changed from the original concept
> and the cartoon plans. (Well, maybe the Beta Marine Kubota enginefor
> rather than the Yanmar.) When I ordered the cartoon plans, I also
> ordered (at Mr. Bolger's suggestion) the plans of Fast Motorsailer
> study purposes. He suggested they might be useful as a buildingguide,
> and I think he was mostly correct. If I had more experience as aoffsets.
> builder, I would not hesitate to build from the cartoon plans and
>plywood
> Unfortunately, I now live where marine (or even good exterior)
> is not available. Humm, could it be built from conventional stickwood
> or (shudder) even fiberglass. Fiberglass work here in Nicaragua isHi Lewis,
> good and cheap. Maybe a one-off quick and dirty fiberglass hull?
>
> Lewis
That is great news that you are able to share offsets. Since it is
tack and tape construction, 1/4" tolerances could be accomodated
for. Unfortunately I don't have Excel on my computer but can get
someone who has to print them out.
I am wondering if that would provide enough information for Bruce
Hallman to be able to develop the panel shapes and/or make a model?
(Hint hint:-)
I would be interested in what you would suggest would be the
building sequence? The stem is simple as it is vertical. And the
transom and topside panels could be assembled inverted on a
strongback around perhaps three bulkheads and maybe two partial
bulkheads? The box keel is also pretty straighforward and could be
built upright like with Bee. But then I am at a loss as to being
able to visualize joining the two together with the bilge panels as
it does not seem that the bulkheads extend into the box keel to form
molds to support the bilge panels until they are attached. Or does
one build temporary molds to support the box keel and then close in
the bilge panels like on a several of the multi chine boats like
Bobcat?
What is the building sequence for Fast Motorsailor?
The hull is essentially a deep vee with the box keel over top of it
and a bottom part of the deep vee cut out.
If you could get some MDO shipped in would that be too expensive to
even consider? Or even cheap plywood to construct the hull shape and
glass it both inside and out and then finish it with a glass/foam
sandwich or even strip planking for the deck and cabin. I think 5/8"
MDO with a double course on the bottom of the keel would work.
I wonder how many would be interested in buying plans if they were
available? I figure half a dozen at least. Some people are wondering
how good a small displacement cruiser it would make for canals and
slow rivers and estuaries and not even install the sailplan?
The fact it has standing headroom the length of the cabin has to be
attractive. Although you will notice that the man standing up in the
cartoon has a rather flattened head:-)
Sincerely, Nels
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/The one problem for Westcoast coastal cruising, at least
> Can anyone think of a better boat for travelling up and down
> the West coast of the US
> -Richard
> Anacortes, WA
from California through to Washington, is that you need
more fuel capacity to span the long distances between ports.
Though that boat would be real sweet for cruising in a very
large radius 'round Anacortes!
Don,
It does have a coach roof mounted tabernacle. I just uploaded an Excel
spreadsheet with the offsets scaled from the large cartoon plans I
ordered years ago from PCB. I tried to be accurate and I'm sure the
offsets are closer than 1/4-inch accuracy. The offsets can be found in
the files section of Bolger5 in folder SBJ_SMMS.
There is nothing I would want changed from the original concept essay
and the cartoon plans. (Well, maybe the Beta Marine Kubota engine
rather than the Yanmar.) When I ordered the cartoon plans, I also
ordered (at Mr. Bolger's suggestion) the plans of Fast Motorsailer for
study purposes. He suggested they might be useful as a building guide,
and I think he was mostly correct. If I had more experience as a
builder, I would not hesitate to build from the cartoon plans and offsets.
Unfortunately, I now live where marine (or even good exterior) plywood
is not available. Humm, could it be built from conventional stick wood
or (shudder) even fiberglass. Fiberglass work here in Nicaragua is
good and cheap. Maybe a one-off quick and dirty fiberglass hull?
Lewis
It does have a coach roof mounted tabernacle. I just uploaded an Excel
spreadsheet with the offsets scaled from the large cartoon plans I
ordered years ago from PCB. I tried to be accurate and I'm sure the
offsets are closer than 1/4-inch accuracy. The offsets can be found in
the files section of Bolger5 in folder SBJ_SMMS.
There is nothing I would want changed from the original concept essay
and the cartoon plans. (Well, maybe the Beta Marine Kubota engine
rather than the Yanmar.) When I ordered the cartoon plans, I also
ordered (at Mr. Bolger's suggestion) the plans of Fast Motorsailer for
study purposes. He suggested they might be useful as a building guide,
and I think he was mostly correct. If I had more experience as a
builder, I would not hesitate to build from the cartoon plans and offsets.
Unfortunately, I now live where marine (or even good exterior) plywood
is not available. Humm, could it be built from conventional stick wood
or (shudder) even fiberglass. Fiberglass work here in Nicaragua is
good and cheap. Maybe a one-off quick and dirty fiberglass hull?
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...> wrote:
> Not to mention relatively fast, when compared to most pure sailers.
> I'm a little surprised there isn't a tabernacle, but it looks like not
> having one saves some interior space, and bridge height.
>
> I wonder if a box keel couldn't be scarfed onto another hull for which
> there is plans, then the completed hull fitted with an "undersized"
> sail rig.
>
> Might be faster than waiting for Bolger.
>
> Don
Not to mention relatively fast, when compared to most pure sailers.
I'm a little surprised there isn't a tabernacle, but it looks like not
having one saves some interior space, and bridge height.
I wonder if a box keel couldn't be scarfed onto another hull for which
there is plans, then the completed hull fitted with an "undersized"
sail rig.
Might be faster than waiting for Bolger.
Don
I'm a little surprised there isn't a tabernacle, but it looks like not
having one saves some interior space, and bridge height.
I wonder if a box keel couldn't be scarfed onto another hull for which
there is plans, then the completed hull fitted with an "undersized"
sail rig.
Might be faster than waiting for Bolger.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> The small motorsailer seems like an ideal blend of all of these
things
> to me.
> -Richard
> Anacortes, WA
>
> Looks great to me too, why don't you fax PB&F and ask about it,
> I would be very curious to learn of their reply
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
he could not use the boom and had to sail boomless. Also none of the
sail controls or steering could be handled from inside the deckhouse
like with the Micro Nav.
One challenge is it would almost require some sort of remote
steering gear to do that. Like Gary Blankenship's Ostar boat has for
example.
Other than that it could be quite easy to do - using the Micro
Noagator upgrade sheets.
I wrote to PCB&F over a year ago now and they said that no plans are
in the works for either a LM Nav conversion or a plywood Hasler. I
doubt if they will do anything until they get caught with their
unfinished comissions and commitments. Remember they are renewing
Resolution as well.
On another point regarding steel boatbuilding, it requires a whole
new set of skills, tools and painting techniques, condensation
challenges, dangerous materials and toxic chemicals etc. - over and
above what one may know regarding wood construction!
Nels
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>wrote:
> "I actually thought there was a Long Micro"back and
>
> Not exactly, but someone added a glass house mod several years
> offered it for sale in MAIB. A pic in Bolger2 files, in the filenamed
> Bolger Scans.From what I recall, the performance was negatively affected because
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Bolger%20scans/
>
> Bruce Hector
he could not use the boom and had to sail boomless. Also none of the
sail controls or steering could be handled from inside the deckhouse
like with the Micro Nav.
One challenge is it would almost require some sort of remote
steering gear to do that. Like Gary Blankenship's Ostar boat has for
example.
Other than that it could be quite easy to do - using the Micro
Noagator upgrade sheets.
I wrote to PCB&F over a year ago now and they said that no plans are
in the works for either a LM Nav conversion or a plywood Hasler. I
doubt if they will do anything until they get caught with their
unfinished comissions and commitments. Remember they are renewing
Resolution as well.
On another point regarding steel boatbuilding, it requires a whole
new set of skills, tools and painting techniques, condensation
challenges, dangerous materials and toxic chemicals etc. - over and
above what one may know regarding wood construction!
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...> wrote:
"I actually thought there was a Long Micro"
Not exactly, but someone added a glass house mod several years back and
offered it for sale in MAIB. A pic in Bolger2 files, in the file named
Bolger Scans.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Bolger%20scans/
Bruce Hector
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Navigator update... Has anyone just given it a shot, applying the
Navigator design features to their Long Micro? I've seen some
composite drawings here, but hasnyone actually built one?
best. An unstayed, tabernacled rig would ceratainly be nice, but
given the general simplicity of the rest of the boat, may not be what
PCB&F have in mind for it. A self-tending jib would be super if the
geometry all worked out that way.
tank/s, you're probably right.
As for things I'd like to see... I would probably choose the Beta
Marine BZ 482 13.5 hp engine over the 16hp Yanmar. I have experience
with Kubota diesels and can tell you that they are fantastic. I
wouldn't mind seeing a smaller cockpit and perhaps even a bit of a
Navigator-like pilothouse sort of arrangement. I've always thought
that an "inside helm" seating area could profitably be combined with
an athwartships "in-port berth" like Jessie Cooper and AS-29 have, but
I guess the small motorsailer probably isn't quite wide enough for
that. The MacNaughton's Penny or Farthing has an arrangement like
that which looks great to me.
Now that I think about it, why not a cat-schooner or cat-ketch rig
with sharpie-sprit sails, a bit like B&B designs' Princess:
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/princess.htm
Seems more Bolger-ish than a gaff sloop, though perhaps not quite as
heavy-weather capable.
I guess the thing about this design that I would need to really think
about and get PCB&F's take on is just how this boat would compare to a
more-powerboat-like displacement vessel of similar size, like a
20-something foot troller-like powerboat with good steadying sails.
That is, just how much propulsion could this boat gain from its rig,
and therefore fuel savings? Just how much more seaworthy or
comfortable would this boat be than the abovementioned troller with
steadying sails? It would be nice to be able to quantify the
advantages of motorsailing to all those who ask "why don't you just
sail?" or "why don't you just motor?", not to mention aiding me in
justifying the whole idea to myself.
-Richard
>Ah, that's too bad. I actually thought there was a Long Micro
> Hi Richard,
>
> I agree 100%
>
> However PCB&F are too tied down to consider anything right now from
> what I understand. We ran into the same situation with others who
> are interested in a Long Micro Navigator update.
>
Navigator update... Has anyone just given it a shot, applying the
Navigator design features to their Long Micro? I've seen some
composite drawings here, but hasnyone actually built one?
> I expect PCB&F would be looking at modifying the sailplan as it hasI would certainly love to see whatever rig PCB&F think would work
> a stayed mast but maybe not. Maybe the forward section something
> like the Jochens Schooner with a self tending jib and a cathead for
> the anchor?
best. An unstayed, tabernacled rig would ceratainly be nice, but
given the general simplicity of the rest of the boat, may not be what
PCB&F have in mind for it. A self-tending jib would be super if the
geometry all worked out that way.
>Less storage than the Long Micro? I guess with the inboard and fuel
> Anthing you would like to see changed? What would be the smallest
> quietest engine you figure? The one as listed (16 HP Yanmar).
> I really like the looks including the storm hood or whatever it is
> called. Would be capable of doing the inside passage as well I
> think. It does lack some storage compared to say a Long Micro, but
> would be more seaworthy I would guess.
>
tank/s, you're probably right.
As for things I'd like to see... I would probably choose the Beta
Marine BZ 482 13.5 hp engine over the 16hp Yanmar. I have experience
with Kubota diesels and can tell you that they are fantastic. I
wouldn't mind seeing a smaller cockpit and perhaps even a bit of a
Navigator-like pilothouse sort of arrangement. I've always thought
that an "inside helm" seating area could profitably be combined with
an athwartships "in-port berth" like Jessie Cooper and AS-29 have, but
I guess the small motorsailer probably isn't quite wide enough for
that. The MacNaughton's Penny or Farthing has an arrangement like
that which looks great to me.
Now that I think about it, why not a cat-schooner or cat-ketch rig
with sharpie-sprit sails, a bit like B&B designs' Princess:
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/princess.htm
Seems more Bolger-ish than a gaff sloop, though perhaps not quite as
heavy-weather capable.
I guess the thing about this design that I would need to really think
about and get PCB&F's take on is just how this boat would compare to a
more-powerboat-like displacement vessel of similar size, like a
20-something foot troller-like powerboat with good steadying sails.
That is, just how much propulsion could this boat gain from its rig,
and therefore fuel savings? Just how much more seaworthy or
comfortable would this boat be than the abovementioned troller with
steadying sails? It would be nice to be able to quantify the
advantages of motorsailing to all those who ask "why don't you just
sail?" or "why don't you just motor?", not to mention aiding me in
justifying the whole idea to myself.
-Richard
> The small motorsailer seems like an ideal blend of all of these thingsLooks great to me too, why don't you fax PB&F and ask about it,
> to me.
> -Richard
> Anacortes, WA
I would be very curious to learn of their reply
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>
wrote:
I agree 100%
However PCB&F are too tied down to consider anything right now from
what I understand. We ran into the same situation with others who
are interested in a Long Micro Navigator update.
I expect PCB&F would be looking at modifying the sailplan as it has
a stayed mast but maybe not. Maybe the forward section something
like the Jochens Schooner with a self tending jib and a cathead for
the anchor?
Anthing you would like to see changed? What would be the smallest
quietest engine you figure? The one as listed (16 HP Yanmar).
I really like the looks including the storm hood or whatever it is
called. Would be capable of doing the inside passage as well I
think. It does lack some storage compared to say a Long Micro, but
would be more seaworthy I would guess.
Nels
wrote:
> Howdy Folks22'
>
> I was just perusing the archives in search of discussions on the
> small motorsailer design:pay
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
> There was some discussion last year of a few people teaming up to
> PB&F to finish the design. Did anyone actually go ahead withthat?
> Would anyone still be interested in doing so? Can anyone think ofa
> better boat for travelling up and down the West coast of the USthat
> would be as:things
> - simple to build
> - easy to build (relatively, of course!)
> - economical to operate
> - comfortable
> - foul-weather capable
> - generally hassle-free
> The small motorsailer seems like an ideal blend of all of these
> to me.Hi Richard,
>
> -Richard
> Anacortes, WA
I agree 100%
However PCB&F are too tied down to consider anything right now from
what I understand. We ran into the same situation with others who
are interested in a Long Micro Navigator update.
I expect PCB&F would be looking at modifying the sailplan as it has
a stayed mast but maybe not. Maybe the forward section something
like the Jochens Schooner with a self tending jib and a cathead for
the anchor?
Anthing you would like to see changed? What would be the smallest
quietest engine you figure? The one as listed (16 HP Yanmar).
I really like the looks including the storm hood or whatever it is
called. Would be capable of doing the inside passage as well I
think. It does lack some storage compared to say a Long Micro, but
would be more seaworthy I would guess.
Nels
Howdy Folks
I was just perusing the archives in search of discussions on the 22'
small motorsailer design:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
There was some discussion last year of a few people teaming up to pay
PB&F to finish the design. Did anyone actually go ahead with that?
Would anyone still be interested in doing so? Can anyone think of a
better boat for travelling up and down the West coast of the US that
would be as:
- simple to build
- easy to build (relatively, of course!)
- economical to operate
- comfortable
- foul-weather capable
- generally hassle-free
The small motorsailer seems like an ideal blend of all of these things
to me.
-Richard
Anacortes, WA
I was just perusing the archives in search of discussions on the 22'
small motorsailer design:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/Small%20Motorsailer/
There was some discussion last year of a few people teaming up to pay
PB&F to finish the design. Did anyone actually go ahead with that?
Would anyone still be interested in doing so? Can anyone think of a
better boat for travelling up and down the West coast of the US that
would be as:
- simple to build
- easy to build (relatively, of course!)
- economical to operate
- comfortable
- foul-weather capable
- generally hassle-free
The small motorsailer seems like an ideal blend of all of these things
to me.
-Richard
Anacortes, WA