Re: [bolger] Re: Sails
Paul wrote:
Polytarpsails on her to start with. I bought a sail kit from Sailright
which I have been very happy with. The problem is I am somewhat of an
experimentor and would like to try some different rigs on her just for
the pure fun of it. I have about $700 in her sails and thats too much
to throw aside. I am pretty much locked in to her present rig. I will
likely try a sprit boom on her using her present sail. I will also
mess with some polytarp sails but will not change her rig as a result as
I want dacron sails for the long haul with the idea that we will be
taking long trips up and down the east coat here in the states. For
that kind of sailing I would not substitute polytarp.
Doug
>I have built an Elver which I am happy with. I wish though Ihad put
> I also am a fan of poly tarp sails but rather than build my own I
> have had them made by Polysails. Prices are really reasonable and
> the quality is good.
>
> I have bought 3 sails from them and have used 2 of them. The first
> was on a Tortoise, the second for a brick (my son grew up and the
> tortoise was too small) and the third set is waiting for me to finish
> building Superbrick.
>
> I think for any boat I build I would probably start off at least with
> poly tarp sails. Because they are inexpensive I can get sailing
> sooner. There is always time later to buy other sails if I think I
> need them and even then the polysails would make a good backup set.
>
> Paul H.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "David C." <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
> >
> > It depends on your personal situation in the areas of:
> > cost; need for optimum sailing performance; desire to do everything
> yourself; using non-traditional materials.
> >
> > To me, it was a simple question of cost vs. sailing performance --
> plus, I get a kick out of using non-traditional materials and
> products for boatbuilding.
> >
> > I chose heavy duty, white polytarp (Don't use the thin blue, green
> or silver stuff you get at the hardware store. Do an internet search
> and you'll find many places that sell a heavier grade that comes in
> white -- looks like any other white sail, and the cost is not
> unreasonable; mine was less than $30). To purchase the sail pre-made
> would be about $400 (I have a balanced lug sail of approx 100 sq ft).
> I didn't want to spend this, but I also didn;t want to go to the
> other extreme with a cheap poolytarp and carpet tape (though, with a
> smaller boat, I might have)
> >
> > I bought real sail thread and Dacron sail tape and a heavy weight
> tarp large enough to cut the entire shape out of one piece. Instead
> of sewing broadseams, I used the method whereby you cut some of the
> sides with a curve built into them, then sew darts into the sail at
> two places (Jim Michalak has written in some detail about this, and
> my boat is one of his AF3 designs). The Dacron tape is used to
> reinforce the edges; corners get several extra layers of tarp for
> added strength; standard brass grommets were used; I added two rows
> of reef points (which would cost another $45 each, if I ordered the
> sail pre-made). The resulting shape has a nice belly in it and also
> sets quite nicely (you can see the sail in action on her maiden
> voyage here:
> >http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/DavifGC/Sail14x6.jpg
> <http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/DavifGC/Sail14x6.jpg>
> >
> > I'm not any kind of expert, and I only got to sail her three times
> before winter set in, but I am quite pleased with the performance of
> the sail on all points so far. Total cost was around $50 - $60 (not
> counting the $20 part I had to replace in my wife's sewing machine
> when I broke it by trying to sew through eight layers of polytarp at
> one of the corners!)
> >
> > This compromise worked for me. The only real concession was in the
> sail material. The other materials were all standard, and I sewed the
> sail in a manner that could be used with real sail cloth.
> >
> > That's my $0.02
> >
> > David C
> >
> > ---- Steven DAntonio <sdantonio93@gma; 2- sailing performance
> > il.com> wrote:
> > > OK, now that we have attacked the question of building materials
> for
> > > the hull. Lets get to the next big item.
> > >
> > > Sails: Polytarp vs. tyvec vs. Egyptian cotton vs. rayon, vs. paper
> > > machete (the last topic is optional if we have time).
> > >
> > > I would love to hear pros and cons of each material, especially
> from
> > > those who have used them.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Steven
> >
>
>
Polytarpsails on her to start with. I bought a sail kit from Sailright
which I have been very happy with. The problem is I am somewhat of an
experimentor and would like to try some different rigs on her just for
the pure fun of it. I have about $700 in her sails and thats too much
to throw aside. I am pretty much locked in to her present rig. I will
likely try a sprit boom on her using her present sail. I will also
mess with some polytarp sails but will not change her rig as a result as
I want dacron sails for the long haul with the idea that we will be
taking long trips up and down the east coat here in the states. For
that kind of sailing I would not substitute polytarp.
Doug
I also am a fan of poly tarp sails but rather than build my own I
have had them made by Polysails. Prices are really reasonable and
the quality is good.
I have bought 3 sails from them and have used 2 of them. The first
was on a Tortoise, the second for a brick (my son grew up and the
tortoise was too small) and the third set is waiting for me to finish
building Superbrick.
I think for any boat I build I would probably start off at least with
poly tarp sails. Because they are inexpensive I can get sailing
sooner. There is always time later to buy other sails if I think I
need them and even then the polysails would make a good backup set.
Paul H.
have had them made by Polysails. Prices are really reasonable and
the quality is good.
I have bought 3 sails from them and have used 2 of them. The first
was on a Tortoise, the second for a brick (my son grew up and the
tortoise was too small) and the third set is waiting for me to finish
building Superbrick.
I think for any boat I build I would probably start off at least with
poly tarp sails. Because they are inexpensive I can get sailing
sooner. There is always time later to buy other sails if I think I
need them and even then the polysails would make a good backup set.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David C." <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
>
> It depends on your personal situation in the areas of:
> cost; need for optimum sailing performance; desire to do everything
yourself; using non-traditional materials.
>
> To me, it was a simple question of cost vs. sailing performance --
plus, I get a kick out of using non-traditional materials and
products for boatbuilding.
>
> I chose heavy duty, white polytarp (Don't use the thin blue, green
or silver stuff you get at the hardware store. Do an internet search
and you'll find many places that sell a heavier grade that comes in
white -- looks like any other white sail, and the cost is not
unreasonable; mine was less than $30). To purchase the sail pre-made
would be about $400 (I have a balanced lug sail of approx 100 sq ft).
I didn't want to spend this, but I also didn;t want to go to the
other extreme with a cheap poolytarp and carpet tape (though, with a
smaller boat, I might have)
>
> I bought real sail thread and Dacron sail tape and a heavy weight
tarp large enough to cut the entire shape out of one piece. Instead
of sewing broadseams, I used the method whereby you cut some of the
sides with a curve built into them, then sew darts into the sail at
two places (Jim Michalak has written in some detail about this, and
my boat is one of his AF3 designs). The Dacron tape is used to
reinforce the edges; corners get several extra layers of tarp for
added strength; standard brass grommets were used; I added two rows
of reef points (which would cost another $45 each, if I ordered the
sail pre-made). The resulting shape has a nice belly in it and also
sets quite nicely (you can see the sail in action on her maiden
voyage here:
>http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/DavifGC/Sail14x6.jpg
>
> I'm not any kind of expert, and I only got to sail her three times
before winter set in, but I am quite pleased with the performance of
the sail on all points so far. Total cost was around $50 - $60 (not
counting the $20 part I had to replace in my wife's sewing machine
when I broke it by trying to sew through eight layers of polytarp at
one of the corners!)
>
> This compromise worked for me. The only real concession was in the
sail material. The other materials were all standard, and I sewed the
sail in a manner that could be used with real sail cloth.
>
> That's my $0.02
>
> David C
>
> ---- Steven DAntonio <sdantonio93@gma; 2- sailing performance
> il.com> wrote:
> > OK, now that we have attacked the question of building materials
for
> > the hull. Lets get to the next big item.
> >
> > Sails: Polytarp vs. tyvec vs. Egyptian cotton vs. rayon, vs. paper
> > machete (the last topic is optional if we have time).
> >
> > I would love to hear pros and cons of each material, especially
from
> > those who have used them.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steven
>
It depends on your personal situation in the areas of:
cost; need for optimum sailing performance; desire to do everything yourself; using non-traditional materials.
To me, it was a simple question of cost vs. sailing performance -- plus, I get a kick out of using non-traditional materials and products for boatbuilding.
I chose heavy duty, white polytarp (Don't use the thin blue, green or silver stuff you get at the hardware store. Do an internet search and you'll find many places that sell a heavier grade that comes in white -- looks like any other white sail, and the cost is not unreasonable; mine was less than $30). To purchase the sail pre-made would be about $400 (I have a balanced lug sail of approx 100 sq ft). I didn't want to spend this, but I also didn;t want to go to the other extreme with a cheap poolytarp and carpet tape (though, with a smaller boat, I might have)
I bought real sail thread and Dacron sail tape and a heavy weight tarp large enough to cut the entire shape out of one piece. Instead of sewing broadseams, I used the method whereby you cut some of the sides with a curve built into them, then sew darts into the sail at two places (Jim Michalak has written in some detail about this, and my boat is one of his AF3 designs). The Dacron tape is used to reinforce the edges; corners get several extra layers of tarp for added strength; standard brass grommets were used; I added two rows of reef points (which would cost another $45 each, if I ordered the sail pre-made). The resulting shape has a nice belly in it and also sets quite nicely (you can see the sail in action on her maiden voyage here:
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/DavifGC/Sail14x6.jpg
I'm not any kind of expert, and I only got to sail her three times before winter set in, but I am quite pleased with the performance of the sail on all points so far. Total cost was around $50 - $60 (not counting the $20 part I had to replace in my wife's sewing machine when I broke it by trying to sew through eight layers of polytarp at one of the corners!)
This compromise worked for me. The only real concession was in the sail material. The other materials were all standard, and I sewed the sail in a manner that could be used with real sail cloth.
That's my $0.02
David C
---- Steven DAntonio <sdantonio93@gma; 2- sailing performance
il.com> wrote:
cost; need for optimum sailing performance; desire to do everything yourself; using non-traditional materials.
To me, it was a simple question of cost vs. sailing performance -- plus, I get a kick out of using non-traditional materials and products for boatbuilding.
I chose heavy duty, white polytarp (Don't use the thin blue, green or silver stuff you get at the hardware store. Do an internet search and you'll find many places that sell a heavier grade that comes in white -- looks like any other white sail, and the cost is not unreasonable; mine was less than $30). To purchase the sail pre-made would be about $400 (I have a balanced lug sail of approx 100 sq ft). I didn't want to spend this, but I also didn;t want to go to the other extreme with a cheap poolytarp and carpet tape (though, with a smaller boat, I might have)
I bought real sail thread and Dacron sail tape and a heavy weight tarp large enough to cut the entire shape out of one piece. Instead of sewing broadseams, I used the method whereby you cut some of the sides with a curve built into them, then sew darts into the sail at two places (Jim Michalak has written in some detail about this, and my boat is one of his AF3 designs). The Dacron tape is used to reinforce the edges; corners get several extra layers of tarp for added strength; standard brass grommets were used; I added two rows of reef points (which would cost another $45 each, if I ordered the sail pre-made). The resulting shape has a nice belly in it and also sets quite nicely (you can see the sail in action on her maiden voyage here:
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/DavifGC/Sail14x6.jpg
I'm not any kind of expert, and I only got to sail her three times before winter set in, but I am quite pleased with the performance of the sail on all points so far. Total cost was around $50 - $60 (not counting the $20 part I had to replace in my wife's sewing machine when I broke it by trying to sew through eight layers of polytarp at one of the corners!)
This compromise worked for me. The only real concession was in the sail material. The other materials were all standard, and I sewed the sail in a manner that could be used with real sail cloth.
That's my $0.02
David C
---- Steven DAntonio <sdantonio93@gma; 2- sailing performance
il.com> wrote:
> OK, now that we have attacked the question of building materials for
> the hull. Lets get to the next big item.
>
> Sails: Polytarp vs. tyvec vs. Egyptian cotton vs. rayon, vs. paper
> machete (the last topic is optional if we have time).
>
> I would love to hear pros and cons of each material, especially from
> those who have used them.
>
> Thanks
> Steven
OK, now that we have attacked the question of building materials for
the hull. Lets get to the next big item.
Sails: Polytarp vs. tyvec vs. Egyptian cotton vs. rayon, vs. paper
machete (the last topic is optional if we have time).
I would love to hear pros and cons of each material, especially from
those who have used them.
Thanks
Steven
the hull. Lets get to the next big item.
Sails: Polytarp vs. tyvec vs. Egyptian cotton vs. rayon, vs. paper
machete (the last topic is optional if we have time).
I would love to hear pros and cons of each material, especially from
those who have used them.
Thanks
Steven
Ron, I should have thought of that--I will report back. It reminds me of when I was a boy in the late 60s building a boat with my father. He had a can of adhesive caulk--Marine-Tex?--in the shop with a cartoon of a guy on the label, furiously trying to pull loose a board apparently fastened down with the same caulk. The man was saying "The *&%!*! stuff won't leggo!" That is me--and you are right, I am sure I am not the first.
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Ron Magen <quahaug@...> wrote:
From: Ron Magen <quahaug@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: Help with 5200 caulk
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 4:30 PM
Sam,
Just for the Hell of it . . . have you contacted 3-M ?? I am SURE this
question has come up !!
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Sam,
Just for the Hell of it . . . have you contacted 3-M ?? I am SURE this
question has come up !!
Not only that, but as an engineer married to a research chemist, it's a
basic understanding - whenever you come up with a 'solution' to a problem,
typically an 'antidote' or 'escape' is found at the same time.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
1l. Re: Help with 5200 caulk
Posted by: "Sam Glasscock"glasscocklanding@...glasscocklanding
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:46 pm ((PST))
Thanks to all for the many good suggestions. . . .
<snip>
Just for the Hell of it . . . have you contacted 3-M ?? I am SURE this
question has come up !!
Not only that, but as an engineer married to a research chemist, it's a
basic understanding - whenever you come up with a 'solution' to a problem,
typically an 'antidote' or 'escape' is found at the same time.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
1l. Re: Help with 5200 caulk
Posted by: "Sam Glasscock"glasscocklanding@...glasscocklanding
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:46 pm ((PST))
Thanks to all for the many good suggestions. . . .
<snip>
I would think that if there have been long-standing persistent leaks,
it would be strange if the wood had not started to rot/delaminate here
and there.
Couldn't you just deeply score the ply with a heavy utility knife
above the chine, and then get a couple of the biggest cheap big-box
chisels you can find and just split the false chines off by driving
the chisels into the joint from top and maybe the bottom as you go
along? The 5200 may be tough, but white oak/5200 should just peel off
the wood into the the face ply with no problems at all. Any places
where the 5200 is still sticking to the ply, just take a sharp chisel
or a loose plane blade and slice it off, paring away the wood under
the 5200 and then maybe touching up here and there with a sander to
get a good surface to start filling.
Then you could see if you have any other problems in there, let it dry
out good, patch and fill with epoxy and then sand and glass.
As long as you use beefy glass up over any damage, it is not going to
affect the strength of the chine joint -- make it stronger if
anything. It would be strange if you couldn't get both chines off in
one piece, maybe they could be reused for something, maybe not, but it
would probably be worth it in any case just to be able to see into the
joint.
Cheers, Brian
it would be strange if the wood had not started to rot/delaminate here
and there.
Couldn't you just deeply score the ply with a heavy utility knife
above the chine, and then get a couple of the biggest cheap big-box
chisels you can find and just split the false chines off by driving
the chisels into the joint from top and maybe the bottom as you go
along? The 5200 may be tough, but white oak/5200 should just peel off
the wood into the the face ply with no problems at all. Any places
where the 5200 is still sticking to the ply, just take a sharp chisel
or a loose plane blade and slice it off, paring away the wood under
the 5200 and then maybe touching up here and there with a sander to
get a good surface to start filling.
Then you could see if you have any other problems in there, let it dry
out good, patch and fill with epoxy and then sand and glass.
As long as you use beefy glass up over any damage, it is not going to
affect the strength of the chine joint -- make it stronger if
anything. It would be strange if you couldn't get both chines off in
one piece, maybe they could be reused for something, maybe not, but it
would probably be worth it in any case just to be able to see into the
joint.
Cheers, Brian
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the many good suggestions.� Bruce, I think I will
try to glass the rails in place.� I'll have to get the 5200 out of the
joints with a saw and grinder, and/or solvent, but I think in the long
run it will be less work.� No strakes on the boat--It is a St. Pierre,
a big banks dory.� The rail is essentially a false chine log on the
outside of the hull.
>
> --- On Mon, 12/15/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:13 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, that is some nice wood!
>
> Alternately, you might consider running a cove of epoxy and 2"
> fiberglass tape the full length at the each edge of the rails where
> they touch to the hulls. How many strakes?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks to all for the many good suggestions. Bruce, I think I will try to glass the rails in place. I'll have to get the 5200 out of the joints with a saw and grinder, and/or solvent, but I think in the long run it will be less work. No strakes on the boat--It is a St. Pierre, a big banks dory. The rail is essentially a false chine log on the outside of the hull.
--- On Mon, 12/15/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
Subject: Re: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:13 PM
Well, that is some nice wood!
Alternately, you might consider running a cove of epoxy and 2"
fiberglass tape the full length at the each edge of the rails where
they touch to the hulls. How many strakes?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Sam Glasscock
<glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
Alternately, you might consider running a cove of epoxy and 2"
fiberglass tape the full length at the each edge of the rails where
they touch to the hulls. How many strakes?
<glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
> Bruce, I am afraid that at the end of the day that is what I will do. IWell, that is some nice wood!
> have had solvents suggested, which I will try, but I have my doubts. It is
> a shame--the rails are 20' pieces of clear white oak, 5/4 x 3", I sure would
> like to save them, but I suspect you have adumbrated their fate,
Alternately, you might consider running a cove of epoxy and 2"
fiberglass tape the full length at the each edge of the rails where
they touch to the hulls. How many strakes?
If the hot knofe idea works, you could get a heated x-acto blade holder
that screws into a soldering iron. I have some I use for cutting dacron
line.
Sam Glasscock wrote:
that screws into a soldering iron. I have some I use for cutting dacron
line.
Sam Glasscock wrote:
> Bruce, I am afraid that at the end of the day that is what I will do. I have had solvents suggested, which I will try, but I have my doubts. It is a shame--the rails are 20' pieces of clear white oak, 5/4 x 3", I sure would like to save them, but I suspect you have adumbrated their fate,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> --- On Mon, 12/15/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 10:53 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sam, it if were me, I would put on ear plugs and a dust mast, then
> take my 4 1/2" angle grinder with a big box of 36 grit grinding disks
> and pulverize those rails (and the 5200) into sawdust.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Bruce, I am afraid that at the end of the day that is what I will do. I have had solvents suggested, which I will try, but I have my doubts. It is a shame--the rails are 20' pieces of clear white oak, 5/4 x 3", I sure would like to save them, but I suspect you have adumbrated their fate,
--- On Mon, 12/15/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
Subject: Re: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 10:53 AM
Sam, it if were me, I would put on ear plugs and a dust mast, then
take my 4 1/2" angle grinder with a big box of 36 grit grinding disks
and pulverize those rails (and the 5200) into sawdust.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sam, it if were me, I would put on ear plugs and a dust mast, then
take my 4 1/2" angle grinder with a big box of 36 grit grinding disks
and pulverize those rails (and the 5200) into sawdust.
take my 4 1/2" angle grinder with a big box of 36 grit grinding disks
and pulverize those rails (and the 5200) into sawdust.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
just felt intuitively it would be a superb small lake and river
cruiser, and would still be very capable, on a really pretty day, out
on Lake Michigan's blue water. I really admired the way the prototype
Hawkeye performed with minimal horsepower. It seems like the
following Hawkeyes all had much weight added with cuddys that had a
bad effect on performance, though it may be as much where the weight
was added as how much. Bolger wanted a midship cabin ala MT and
Retriever.
I bought plans for Hawkeye from PB&F because I think the scantlings,
and much of the construction of Hawkeye can be adapted to Bonefish.
Also, Hawkeye is notable for its light weight, but MicroTrawler and
Retriever are definitely not.
It may be that FreeShip or Carlson's Hulls could help create the
templates for the hull panels and the longitudinal parts. Thus it
would be a Hawkeye shaped like Bonefish.
I find the open "deck boat" design with reasonable draft, very good
performance, very low wake, and excellent seaworthiness to be a quite
a combination for an all around pleasure craft. I also like the
traditional salty appearance. Mine would have a folding windshield
mounted to the outhouse and couple of big bimini tops instead of the
hard cover. IMO this makes for better towing. If I want to
camp/cruise with it, I just put a tent up on the deck in the evening,
and stow it while underway. That's because I anticipate outboard
power, and a bunch of easily stowed lawn furniture rather than built
in benches, etc.
As well thought out as the hull design is, I now don't think the
engine as shown in the sketch will work well at all in a pleasure boat
though I'm sure it would be good for a work boat. I already bought a
B&S to use in "my" Bonefish, but I'm sure I'll just sell it. I
purposely bought a lawnmower with the same engine so I could get a
feel for how it runs. It is very noisy from the rattling of the
sheetmetal shrouds and the ringing cooling fins of the cylinders. The
exhaust's bark is not well muffled by the stock silencer. Plus it
will exhaust all the cooling AND exhaust air/gases into the boat's
"interior" area inside the bulwark. So, that part of the design just
isn't really complete.
I've concluded the only way to begin to make it work is by adding a
tall stack with the engine exhaust running up the middle through a
truck muffler. The cooling air running all around the outside of the
muffler. I believe it will be necessary to have the stack be double
walled with insulation in between to keep the surface temp comfortable
for passengers walking around it. The intake of cooling air will have
to be through a grill on one side of the engine enclosure or possibly
from the box keel, and the outhouse. The stack going up through the
hardcover shown would look great, adding to the "salty" appearance.
But still, the B&S will be thrashing away inside the enclosure.
Second option is to go to a Chinese diesel from a tractor. This will
be MUCH heavier than the very light B&S, requires multiple thru hull
fittings, and managing the heat radiated from the block and the
exhaust. MUCH GREATER building complexity. Yuk.
Third is to hang an outboard on it. Then you get reverse gear. It
will still have all the qualities PB&F conceived except the OB would
be attractive to thieves. It would come together much faster than any
inboard variation . I would keep the box keel just as it is in the
sketch. 18-25 hp outboard would make for a really fun boat.
wrote:
>Very neat calculations Graeme. I agree the design is really cool. I
> The boat looks simple on first sight, but many competing factors are
> bent into a synergistic circle of subtle complexity. Pure PB&F genius.
>
> Graeme
>
just felt intuitively it would be a superb small lake and river
cruiser, and would still be very capable, on a really pretty day, out
on Lake Michigan's blue water. I really admired the way the prototype
Hawkeye performed with minimal horsepower. It seems like the
following Hawkeyes all had much weight added with cuddys that had a
bad effect on performance, though it may be as much where the weight
was added as how much. Bolger wanted a midship cabin ala MT and
Retriever.
I bought plans for Hawkeye from PB&F because I think the scantlings,
and much of the construction of Hawkeye can be adapted to Bonefish.
Also, Hawkeye is notable for its light weight, but MicroTrawler and
Retriever are definitely not.
It may be that FreeShip or Carlson's Hulls could help create the
templates for the hull panels and the longitudinal parts. Thus it
would be a Hawkeye shaped like Bonefish.
I find the open "deck boat" design with reasonable draft, very good
performance, very low wake, and excellent seaworthiness to be a quite
a combination for an all around pleasure craft. I also like the
traditional salty appearance. Mine would have a folding windshield
mounted to the outhouse and couple of big bimini tops instead of the
hard cover. IMO this makes for better towing. If I want to
camp/cruise with it, I just put a tent up on the deck in the evening,
and stow it while underway. That's because I anticipate outboard
power, and a bunch of easily stowed lawn furniture rather than built
in benches, etc.
As well thought out as the hull design is, I now don't think the
engine as shown in the sketch will work well at all in a pleasure boat
though I'm sure it would be good for a work boat. I already bought a
B&S to use in "my" Bonefish, but I'm sure I'll just sell it. I
purposely bought a lawnmower with the same engine so I could get a
feel for how it runs. It is very noisy from the rattling of the
sheetmetal shrouds and the ringing cooling fins of the cylinders. The
exhaust's bark is not well muffled by the stock silencer. Plus it
will exhaust all the cooling AND exhaust air/gases into the boat's
"interior" area inside the bulwark. So, that part of the design just
isn't really complete.
I've concluded the only way to begin to make it work is by adding a
tall stack with the engine exhaust running up the middle through a
truck muffler. The cooling air running all around the outside of the
muffler. I believe it will be necessary to have the stack be double
walled with insulation in between to keep the surface temp comfortable
for passengers walking around it. The intake of cooling air will have
to be through a grill on one side of the engine enclosure or possibly
from the box keel, and the outhouse. The stack going up through the
hardcover shown would look great, adding to the "salty" appearance.
But still, the B&S will be thrashing away inside the enclosure.
Second option is to go to a Chinese diesel from a tractor. This will
be MUCH heavier than the very light B&S, requires multiple thru hull
fittings, and managing the heat radiated from the block and the
exhaust. MUCH GREATER building complexity. Yuk.
Third is to hang an outboard on it. Then you get reverse gear. It
will still have all the qualities PB&F conceived except the OB would
be attractive to thieves. It would come together much faster than any
inboard variation . I would keep the box keel just as it is in the
sketch. 18-25 hp outboard would make for a really fun boat.
Found this earlier on a different group :)
"I just had the need to remove a plastic mount from the transom of my
boat. The problem was that it was mounted on using 5200. I knew it
wouldn't be easy but I was trying not to damage the gelcoat or the
plastic piece. I started searching on google and found a product
called Marine formula, by a company called debond 2000. I am in no way
affilliated with them for the record. I watched a short clip on how
the product works and ordered it for $25.00.
http://www.debond2000.com/vide...wmv
I put sprayed the stuff on and waited like 2 minutes. I took a flat
head screwdriver and it came off easy. Didn't even damage the plastic
piece. I just figured that I would post this for anyone else that
needs to remove 3m 5200.
depjah
fpcjh@...
THE MISTRESS"
Looks like the majority has it on this one ;)
Good Luck
SJR
"I just had the need to remove a plastic mount from the transom of my
boat. The problem was that it was mounted on using 5200. I knew it
wouldn't be easy but I was trying not to damage the gelcoat or the
plastic piece. I started searching on google and found a product
called Marine formula, by a company called debond 2000. I am in no way
affilliated with them for the record. I watched a short clip on how
the product works and ordered it for $25.00.
http://www.debond2000.com/vide...wmv
I put sprayed the stuff on and waited like 2 minutes. I took a flat
head screwdriver and it came off easy. Didn't even damage the plastic
piece. I just figured that I would post this for anyone else that
needs to remove 3m 5200.
depjah
fpcjh@...
THE MISTRESS"
Looks like the majority has it on this one ;)
Good Luck
SJR
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and
would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed.
The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine
logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and the
bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the chines,
and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at the chine
to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive
caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would like to
pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round over and
tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and old putty
off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously,
and I have always found it near imposable to sand off. Anybody know a
way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be
working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
wrote:
caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at
the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids
with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is
getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled
away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near
imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The
boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
wrote:
caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at
the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids
with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is
getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled
away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near
imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The
boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
>Try anti-bond 2015 which can be found at West Marine.
We heat up putty knives for small jobs, but it's nasty to do. Cut it up in small bits and beat it off, you must remove all the old 5200 or the epoxy will not bond well at all, a heavy body furniture stripper left on it for a couple hours will soften it up but it has to stay wet to work good a good sharp paint scraper make that 2 or 3 will do a good job after the stripper, good luck.
Randy
________________________________
From: Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:05:36 PM
Subject: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed. The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________________________
Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger athttp://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Randy
________________________________
From: Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:05:36 PM
Subject: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed. The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________________________
Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger athttp://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I know West Marine has some stuff called DE-BOND. It works well. Short of that. a lot of cuts with a saw so you can chip off the cover board.
Epoxy does stick to cured 4200 and 5200 very well.
Krissie
Epoxy does stick to cured 4200 and 5200 very well.
Krissie
--- On Sun, 12/14/08, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
From: Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
Subject: [bolger] Help with 5200 caulk
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 1:05 PM
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed. The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sam
The only time I ever had any success undoing an
extensive 5200 joint was when a co-worker sprayed a
very aggressive solvent (carburetor cleaner?) on the
blade of the long butcher knife (or was it a samurai
sword?) with which I sawed at the gunk. It was not
quick or easy.
Dave
--- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
The only time I ever had any success undoing an
extensive 5200 joint was when a co-worker sprayed a
very aggressive solvent (carburetor cleaner?) on the
blade of the long butcher knife (or was it a samurai
sword?) with which I sawed at the gunk. It was not
quick or easy.
Dave
--- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
>It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much. - Yogi Berra
> I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am
> working on, and would appreciate some advice. The
> boat is ply and is not glassed. The seams were
> never taped. The boat is built with interior chine
> logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom
> of the logs and the bottom ply run out over the
> sides. She tended to leak at the chines, and a
> previous owner applied rails to the side planking at
> the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply,
> caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is
> again leaking at the chines, and I would like to
> pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty,
> round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is
> getting the rails and old putty off. Where the
> stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold
> tenaciously, and I have always found it near
> imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove
> this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be
> working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
I've never had to try it, but I understand that a hot knife blade
will de-stick 5200. If you can slip one under the rail you may be
able to work it along. Otherwise you may have to destroy the rail
piece by piece and scrape or powersand the old gunk off.
Let us know what works, when you find it. I used 5200 under my
rubrails and some other pieces, never know when they might have to
come off.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
wrote:
The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine
logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and
the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the
chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at
the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200
adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would
like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round
over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and
old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold
tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off.
Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer,
and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
will de-stick 5200. If you can slip one under the rail you may be
able to work it along. Otherwise you may have to destroy the rail
piece by piece and scrape or powersand the old gunk off.
Let us know what works, when you find it. I used 5200 under my
rubrails and some other pieces, never know when they might have to
come off.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
wrote:
>would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed.
>
> I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and
The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine
logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and
the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the
chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at
the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200
adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would
like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round
over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and
old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold
tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off.
Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer,
and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sam,
To the best of my knowledge, and somewhat limited experience {I've only used
it once . . many years ago} - once it's cured, . . your cooked !! What you
will need is a power saw with an old carbide blade.
Depending on the specifics of the job 'presentation' it might pay to buy a
small {5in} cordless circular saw. If you have a belt sander, contact
Klingspore about their 'Planer' belts. They go down to 24-grit - could cut a
tree down !!
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
1f. Help with 5200 caulk
Posted by: "Sam Glasscock"glasscocklanding@...glasscocklanding
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:05 pm ((PST))
<snip>
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory . . .
My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't
pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near
imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk?
<snip>
Thanks, Sam
To the best of my knowledge, and somewhat limited experience {I've only used
it once . . many years ago} - once it's cured, . . your cooked !! What you
will need is a power saw with an old carbide blade.
Depending on the specifics of the job 'presentation' it might pay to buy a
small {5in} cordless circular saw. If you have a belt sander, contact
Klingspore about their 'Planer' belts. They go down to 24-grit - could cut a
tree down !!
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
1f. Help with 5200 caulk
Posted by: "Sam Glasscock"glasscocklanding@...glasscocklanding
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:05 pm ((PST))
<snip>
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory . . .
My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't
pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near
imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk?
<snip>
Thanks, Sam
I have a Bolgeresque (non-Bolger) power dory I am working on, and would appreciate some advice. The boat is ply and is not glassed. The seams were never taped. The boat is built with interior chine logs, with the sides bent on flush with the bottom of the logs and the bottom ply run out over the sides. She tended to leak at the chines, and a previous owner applied rails to the side planking at the chine to cover the edge of the bottom ply, caulked with 3-M 5200 adhesive caulk. The boat is again leaking at the chines, and I would like to pull the rails off, fill any voids with epoxy putty, round over and tape with epoxy/glass. My problem is getting the rails and old putty off. Where the stuff hasn't pulled away to leak, it hold tenaciously, and I have always found it near imposable to sand off. Anybody know a way to remove this caulk? The boat is a 26-footer, and I will be working upside-down. Thanks, Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That box keel, for about an extra 140lbs in materials (1/2" ply etc)
adds about 560lbs in displacement, ie. it just about offsets and floats
the crew weight as shown in the cartoon! That box keel also has an L:B
ratio of about 9, which is up in the range necessary for catamaran hull
wave-making rule cheating performance (and helps the wide main hull to
cheat on its wavemaking by floating it to a shallower draft). That keel
goes through the water fast with little wavemaking drag because of its
L:B yet it also has a flat bottom to add to the planing potential of
the hull, and with low drag water shedding hard chines to boot. And so
on for the rest of the boat.
The boat looks simple on first sight, but many competing factors are
bent into a synergistic circle of subtle complexity. Pure PB&F genius.
Graeme
adds about 560lbs in displacement, ie. it just about offsets and floats
the crew weight as shown in the cartoon! That box keel also has an L:B
ratio of about 9, which is up in the range necessary for catamaran hull
wave-making rule cheating performance (and helps the wide main hull to
cheat on its wavemaking by floating it to a shallower draft). That keel
goes through the water fast with little wavemaking drag because of its
L:B yet it also has a flat bottom to add to the planing potential of
the hull, and with low drag water shedding hard chines to boot. And so
on for the rest of the boat.
The boat looks simple on first sight, but many competing factors are
bent into a synergistic circle of subtle complexity. Pure PB&F genius.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Look in Bolger7
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/Bonefish/
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Look in Bolger7
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/Bonefish/
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Look in Bolger7
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/Bonefish/
>
I have seen that sketch a number of times and can't find it either. I thought it was in cartoons.
Bruce in NJ
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
Bruce in NJ
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
> I know some place in the files is the file, or photo for the Bonefish blerb, But[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I can't seem to find it. I wanted to take a look at it but again. Any of you
> know where to start looking?
>
> Any help is welcomed.
> �Krissie
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--- hal <hl700@c...> wrote:
http://hallman.org/bolger/bonefish.gif
Stefan
> Where can I find pictures/drawings of Bolgers Bonefish?Here, at our well-stocked library ;) :
http://hallman.org/bolger/bonefish.gif
Stefan
Where can I find pictures/drawings of Bolgers Bonefish?
hal
hal