Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?

After further review, I came across Redwing 40. This boat has a
Redwing sheer line, but the lower hull design has much in common w'
the IGM10 including the shallow box keel, and there are nice
color "cartoons" of the hull.
I bought the study plans to get a closer look at this design. It is
very "Bolgeresque". Bolger's Plywood Diesel Cruiser in BWAOM is the
equivalent. Very very roomy!! The CMD design may be simpler than the
Bolger. The designer puts the modest tankage down in the box keel like
some of Bolger's similar designs. It seems likely a builder would
readily look to triple the specified tankage, to give the boat some real
legs.

In my very inexperienced opinion the CMD design is underpowered w' 9 hp.
The hull design is capable of handling some rough water, but one would
be short on hp in those conditions. Consider just the windage of the
hull. I wouldn't build the boat with less than a Yanmar 18hp. One
could also read Bolger's essay about his Delaware concept, specifically
talking about Jochem's schooner handling stiff weather with a 9.9
outboard. Built w' the 9hp engine, I think the owner would run the
little diesel wide open most of the time. More hp means a less stressed
powerplant most of the time, but sufficent power when needed to handle
the weather.

Don Schultz
"If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else."
Yogi Berra

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:59:19 -0400
From: Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...>
Subject: Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?

I've always wanted to build a Topaz variant , but lately I have been
looking at the "1GM10" at Chesapeake Marine Design. 24' with a Bay
look and mentions a box keel. Clyde
I've always wanted to build a Topaz variant , but lately I have been
looking at the "1GM10" at Chesapeake Marine Design. 24' with a Bay
look and mentions a box keel. Clyde



Clyde Wisner wrote:

> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Nels" <arvent@...> writes:


> In the meantime I can see some Camper plans in my future:-) Perfect
> boat for my Swedish cousins and maybe to be seen sailing alongside
> Esmeralda.

Any time!!

Bjørn
ready to take Esmeralda for a sail for the first time in two years!
For a clue as to what this might be like, consider Burgundy, from
ch.10 of 30-Odd Boats. It's a 28' flat-bottomed deep-keel cat-ketch
with a low cuddy, meant to be a simpified version of Herreshoff's
Rozinante, at perhaps one third the cost. I guess a Birdwatcher
wersion of Burgundy would have that design's slot-cabin.

Howard

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:

> Mike O'Brien winds up the article with, "I will note that, for his
own
> pleasure, Bolger is drawing a 'Birdwatcher' variant of Rozinante".
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Clyde
>
> Yes, it was to me that Clyde sent the copy of the BDQ article about
> Camper. I will try to scan those pages tonight and post them for
> Nels. Too bad I sold my scanner a few weeks ago... but I sold it to
> my neighbor, so I think I can go over to his house and use it there.
> If the file turns out to be not too large, I'll try to email it to
> Nels directly.
>
> -Richard

Hi Richard and Clyde,

Thank you kindly for the information you provided. I intend to
subscribe to BDQ forthwith and include an extra $7 for that issue
since I believe that is only fair. Plus it has infor on two other
Bolger designs!

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=197-027

I was not aware that Phil and Susanne had re-designed Camper in 2004
and when I read the article it almost blew my socks off. It seems that
the changes were made in response to comments from this group perhaps
because almost everyone was suggested by folks here when Camper was
discussed at about that time frame.

I did not realize that it had a shallow box keel like the clam skiff
and now an anti-slap football has been added to the bow section. The
forward rails have been re-designed for improved access to the ground
tackle together wih anchor catheads and a Jonesport cleat on the bow
like Chebacco's. A fairly sophisicated adjustable vang strut has been
added between the boom and mast to prevent boom lift. Plus some other
minor changes.

Mike O'Brien winds up the article with, "I will note that, for his own
pleasure, Bolger is drawing a 'Birdwatcher' variant of Rozinante".

Does this mean the master is playing instead of doing his homework? We
might have to ask Susanne to maybe get him back into harness here for
awhile. Yet I would dearly love to see that version of Roz!

In the meantime I can see some Camper plans in my future:-) Perfect
boat for my Swedish cousins and maybe to be seen sailing alongside
Esmeralda.

I would strongly suggest that one browse through the back issues of
BDQ to see if your dream boat is listed. BDQ provides what amounts to
excellent study plans for all the designs it reviews, and actually
lines and offsets as well for many of them!

Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Heins" <eheins@c...> wrote:
> I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden
design canoe yawl, about 20ft.

18'6" Canoe Yawl Eel
Plans available from WoodenBoat here:
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400-090

Some discussion here:
http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?
ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001455&p=

Pictures:
http://www.alberswoodenboats.com/

I saw one for sale last Feb. and saved the pictures. I can't find them
on the web anymore, so I uploaded them to Bolger5 files/William Garden
Eel.

-Peter Belenky
Hi Clyde

Yes, it was to me that Clyde sent the copy of the BDQ article about
Camper. I will try to scan those pages tonight and post them for
Nels. Too bad I sold my scanner a few weeks ago... but I sold it to
my neighbor, so I think I can go over to his house and use it there.
If the file turns out to be not too large, I'll try to email it to
Nels directly.

-Richard


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@c...> wrote:
> Richard, Did I send you "BDQ" copies of the Bolger Camper? If so, do
you
> have a way to post them for Nels?
>
>
>
> richardpercolator wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks
> >
> > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
> > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
> >
> > Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
> > times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
> > at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
> > Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
> > interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
> > of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
> > Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
> > might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
> > typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
> > Bolger-boxy way.
> >
> > -Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "bolger
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>" on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Only thing I found was this:

"SEA OTTER 18

David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at
David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre Road, Thornton
Cleveleys, Lancs. FY5 5LF. Telephone/Fax: 01253 893830 "

Yes, neat. My recent mention of the "Eun Mara" must mean I'm in a
traditional looking canoe yawl mood. Found a book in the bookstore
about building boat interiors, and fell for the lovely woodwork.

Paul


> Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
> pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
Only thing I found was this:

"SEA OTTER 18

David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at
David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre Road, Thornton
Cleveleys, Lancs. FY5 5LF. Telephone/Fax: 01253 893830 "

Yes, neat. My recent mention of the "Eun Mara" must mean I'm in a
traditional looking canoe yawl mood. Found a book in the bookstore
about building boat interiors, and fell for the lovely woodwork.

Paul


> Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
> pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
Richard, Did I send you "BDQ" copies of the Bolger Camper? If so, do you
have a way to post them for Nels?



richardpercolator wrote:

> Hi Folks
>
> Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
> pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
>
> Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
> times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
> at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
> Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
> interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
> of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
> Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
> might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
> typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
> Bolger-boxy way.
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Saw a couple of eels at the Port Townsend festival in 2000 - one open and one with a cabin. Both were absolutely gorgeous! I wonder if there are pics on John Kohnen's site?

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Heins
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden design canoe yawl, about 20ft.
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


> anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
> of the species they'd like to share?

Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
from Different Boats.





Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



SPONSORED LINKS Boating safety Boating magazine Alaska outdoors
Great outdoors


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>
wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
> pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
>
> Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a
few
> times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he
was
> at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own
use.
> Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
> interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting
examples
> of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
> Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
> might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
> typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in
its
> Bolger-boxy way.
>
> -Richard

Hi Richard,

I was the one who posted those photos, but I can't recall where I
got them from. It was during a discussion here about the small canoe
yawls and the photos were meant to demonstrate how congested things
get at the stern of a small canoe yawl what with mainsheets, tiller
and mizzen all converging at the pointed stern. Also I was wanting
to point out the vulnerability of that big barrel opening into the
cuddy which is probably pretty cramped with a centerboard trunk. And
really no practical provision for an engine anywhere.

I agree wholeheartedly that Long Micro with almost the same W/L
would have much more interior space all round and be much more
seaworthy, less rigging and far simpler to build.

So despite the loveliness of the lines and overall looks, the
traditional canoe yawl is a pretty complicated little ship, and not
all that practical.

Peter Lenihan built an Elver and then a Micro. I believe the Micro
was a lot more boat, although the Elver is pretty as can be. I
actually have a set of Elver plans that were never used if you are
interested. Also a set of Whisp plans as well, both designs by Steve
Redmond.

http://www.sredmond.com/index_boat.htm

Nels
I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden design canoe yawl, about 20ft.
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


> anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
> of the species they'd like to share?

Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
from Different Boats.





Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
> of the species they'd like to share?

Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
from Different Boats.
Hi Folks

Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
pictured in Bolger3's Files section?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/

Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
Bolger-boxy way.

-Richard