Re: Manatee, if you can...

> Manatee translate across to a steel build ?

A couple more observations on Manatee:

In the text, Bolger makes a comparison to the LFH Meadowlark. I think
that he designed a boat that was an even better elaboration of the
Meadowlark concept: Beringera (sp). It has a two masted rig,
leeboards, shallow draft, similar size, and adds the Bolger
"Birdwatcher" type cabin. I sure would like to see a picture of a
finished boat.

On steel: you might make some comparisons to the designs at
www.tantonyachts.com. Tanton makes a lot of use of steel and has
several designs in the 30'-35' range. I'm thinking of #231, #210,
#923, #895. Especially the last two. Note that these boats have two to
three times the displacement of Manatee. Partly, that is a difference
of intent on the part of the designer, but partly it is the nature of
steel construction.

A couple of other Tanton designs of interest are #946 and #980. I tend
to think of the former as a design for the same use profile of the
AS-29 but with cost and simplicity of build costraints removed.
Similar interior features with a much different exterior. The latter,
#980, is YMT's take on a redesign of the AS-29. There was a huge
brouhaha here once about this boat that we don't need to repeat.
Suffice it to say that the hull shape is NOT the same, however similar
it looks in the drawings, and neither is the rig.

Peter

pvanderwaart wrote:

>>Any chance you could
>>supply that text?
>
>
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee1a.JPG
>
> I guess I just skipped a page. No excuses.

:)
I wouldn't expect any, I'm grateful for your effort scanning the pages
at all!

Thanks,
Chris

> PS. scans 2 and 6 are the same

Further analysis: I did not skip a page when scanning, but I erred
when copying the files.

> Any chance you could
> supply that text?

http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee1a.JPG

I guess I just skipped a page. No excuses.

PS. scans 2 and 6 are the same

Chris

pvanderwaart wrote:

> I scanned and posted Manatee. A couple notes: 1) I did not scan the
> several pages of the building key; 2) I did not scan the picture of
> Alert which you can probably find elsewhere; 3) the scans are on my
> GeoCities page. GeoCities does limit the amount of traffic, and the
> files are pretty big, so some you may get some sort of refusal to
> download. Wait a while, and try again.
>
> Peter
>
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee1.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee2.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee3.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee4.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee5.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee6.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/ManateeSP.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/ManateeAP.JPG

Hi Peter,
thanks for supplying this. and I understand why the building key is not
supplied, but there is some commentary text missing between p89 (scan
1)"I have good hopes that the big rig will ..." and p92 (scan 3) "... I
continue to think about it sporadically, ...". Any chance you could
supply that text?

Thanks,
Chris

pvanderwaart wrote:

> I scanned and posted Manatee. A couple notes: 1) I did not scan the
> several pages of the building key; 2) I did not scan the picture of
> Alert which you can probably find elsewhere; 3) the scans are on my
> GeoCities page. GeoCities does limit the amount of traffic, and the
> files are pretty big, so some you may get some sort of refusal to
> download. Wait a while, and try again.
>
> Peter
>
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee1.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee2.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee3.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee4.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee5.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/manatee6.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/ManateeSP.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/ManateeAP.JPG

There is also Lion's Paw -- see 30-Odd Boats. It's a 38'9" x 9'2-
1/2" (10' over the leeboard guards) steel sharpie gaff schooner. It
has nearly twice the displacement of Manatee. Like Manatee, it does
not have full headroom as designed. Solution 48 has a 22,400-lb
designed displacement, with the designer expecting a liveaboard to
be somewhat heavier than that.

I think trying to adapt Manatee to steel would be a major design
job -- and how long would that take? Possibly longer than the extra
time needed to build Lion's Paw, which is meant to be assembled
instant-boat style, whereas Manatee would require a lot more skill
if it were to be done with round bilges as per the original.

Howard

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:

> The closest PCB design that I know of is the Solution 48

motorsailer

> (Different Boats). The hull is like a huge, steel, V-bottom Teal.

The

> closest metal boat would be Apogee (30-Odd Boats) which is 38 feet

and

> Aluminum.

> Question - in your opinion is it likely that the Manatee
> design would translate across to a steel build ?

The concept could be done is steel, but I'm dubious about just
changing to steel construction. The overloading of Alert
notwithstanding, it's not a very heavy boat for it's length, and it
gets its sail-carrying power from the flat bottom and fairly high
ballast. If the hull shell was heavy, it might be hard to get the CoG
of total as low as you want it to make a good sailboat.

The closest PCB design that I know of is the Solution 48 motorsailer
(Different Boats). The hull is like a huge, steel, V-bottom Teal. The
closest metal boat would be Apogee (30-Odd Boats) which is 38 feet and
Aluminum.

Peter

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:

> the
> files are pretty big, so some you may get some sort of refusal to
> download. Wait a while, and try again.
>
> Peter

Many thanks Peter. I experienced zero problems downloading,
hope others find the same.

Question - in your opinion is it likely that the Manatee
design would translate across to a steel build ? Obviously
this is something to be discussed in depth with Phil Bolger
if I decide to go ahead, but I'd be interested to hear your
views.

Thanks and best regards

Colin