Re: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> writes:
rudder" of Esmeralda (William D Jochems schooner). This part of the
rudder is always immersed and has to be treated with some sort of
antigrowing stuff before final assembly (the "gap" is to narrow to be
accessable for paintbrush, rolls and whatever). The boat has spent two
seasons in salt water (I don't trail it). No signs of growth. But no
sunshine on this part of the boat either...
> Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone hadI used West epoxy mixes with copper powder for the inside of the "main
> 'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
> actually worked.
>
> No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
> copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
rudder" of Esmeralda (William D Jochems schooner). This part of the
rudder is always immersed and has to be treated with some sort of
antigrowing stuff before final assembly (the "gap" is to narrow to be
accessable for paintbrush, rolls and whatever). The boat has spent two
seasons in salt water (I don't trail it). No signs of growth. But no
sunshine on this part of the boat either...
For those in Australia wanting a copper-epoxy solution, there is Cop-R-
Bote, here:
http://www.boatcraft.com.au/paints.html
I've never tried it but might do soon...
Howard
Bote, here:
http://www.boatcraft.com.au/paints.html
I've never tried it but might do soon...
Howard
Well Mark is on this list, but I suspect he is out cruising or working
on his new cabin up near Haines. If he doesn't pipe up in a couple of
days I will email him direct.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
on his new cabin up near Haines. If he doesn't pipe up in a couple of
days I will email him direct.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>HJ
>>
>>
>
>There was a recent discussion of homebrew copper/epoxy
>on another Yahoo group...
>[which eventually evolved to be widely 'off topic'.]
>
>Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone had
>'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
>actually worked.
>
>No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
>copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
>
>[I suspect that powdered copper is kind of expensive.]
>
>[[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
>is just that, encapsulated. ]]
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I trailered my micro for about 8 years with a copperpoxy bottom. Never
did anything to it except scrub with the scotchbrite. Even at that, I
didn't need to do the whole bottom, just the spots that got a little
green growth on them. That's why I liked it so much.
It is tough stuff, I never had any dings or digs in the bottom.
Fresh off the roller, it isn't very smooth. If you want a smooth,
slick finish, you have to sand. And wear a good mask, you don't want
to inhale copper. I didn't sand, either on the micro or the AS-29. I
never saw any performance issues. But then, I don't generally race too
often.
did anything to it except scrub with the scotchbrite. Even at that, I
didn't need to do the whole bottom, just the spots that got a little
green growth on them. That's why I liked it so much.
It is tough stuff, I never had any dings or digs in the bottom.
Fresh off the roller, it isn't very smooth. If you want a smooth,
slick finish, you have to sand. And wear a good mask, you don't want
to inhale copper. I didn't sand, either on the micro or the AS-29. I
never saw any performance issues. But then, I don't generally race too
often.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> $14 a pound at Progressive. Now, how many pounds do I need to cover
a Micro
> bottom?
>
> I may be completely barking up the wrong tree with this - I just figure
> something like this would make for a much tougher bottom to
withstand the
> rigors of trailering, in a way similar to how the graphite powder
toughened
> up the bottom of my kayaks and made them zero-maintenance.
>
> Paul L.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Bruce Hallman
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:28 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
>
>
> > He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him.
> > HJ
>
> There was a recent discussion of homebrew copper/epoxy
> on another Yahoo group...
> [which eventually evolved to be widely 'off topic'.]
>
> Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone had
> 'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
> actually worked.
>
> No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
> copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
>
> [I suspect that powdered copper is kind of expensive.]
>
> [[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
> is just that, encapsulated. ]]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>Exactly - which is why it MUST be sanded, to expose the copper flakes.
>
> [[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
> is just that, encapsulated. ]]
$14 a pound at Progressive. Now, how many pounds do I need to cover a Micro
bottom?
I may be completely barking up the wrong tree with this - I just figure
something like this would make for a much tougher bottom to withstand the
rigors of trailering, in a way similar to how the graphite powder toughened
up the bottom of my kayaks and made them zero-maintenance.
Paul L.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
on another Yahoo group...
[which eventually evolved to be widely 'off topic'.]
Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone had
'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
actually worked.
No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
[I suspect that powdered copper is kind of expensive.]
[[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
is just that, encapsulated. ]]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
bottom?
I may be completely barking up the wrong tree with this - I just figure
something like this would make for a much tougher bottom to withstand the
rigors of trailering, in a way similar to how the graphite powder toughened
up the bottom of my kayaks and made them zero-maintenance.
Paul L.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
> He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him.There was a recent discussion of homebrew copper/epoxy
> HJ
on another Yahoo group...
[which eventually evolved to be widely 'off topic'.]
Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone had
'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
actually worked.
No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
[I suspect that powdered copper is kind of expensive.]
[[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
is just that, encapsulated. ]]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
> He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him.There was a recent discussion of homebrew copper/epoxy
> HJ
on another Yahoo group...
[which eventually evolved to be widely 'off topic'.]
Near the beginning of the thread I asked if anyone had
'first hand' knowledge that homemade copper/epoxy
actually worked.
No one could produce a 'first hand' report that homebrew
copper/epoxy works. Perhaps around here someone knows?
[I suspect that powdered copper is kind of expensive.]
[[ I also suspect that copper encapsulated in epoxy,
is just that, encapsulated. ]]
Copperpoxy (apparently not sold any more...drat!) contains pure
copper, not a copper salt.
It's not very good at keeping soft, green growth off. Occasional
dustoff with the dri-diver keeps that under control. The soft stuff
seems to like sunlight as it only seems to grow right around the
waterline. A quick rub with the dri-diver every 3 or 4 weeks is all it
takes. The whole job takes about 10 minutes.
I liked the product because it contained a special epoxy resin that
functions a bit better as a water barrier than the regular
boat-builder's epoxy.
The company, American Marine Coatings, now sells a product called
Perma-Shield, but they don't sell retail. The new product claims all
the features of the old Copperpoxy, but they only sell to shipyards
and contractors.
It might be possible to duplicate the features of the copperpoxy by
adding copper flakes to a good water-barrier epoxy. I tried it a while
back, but couldn't quite duplicate the consistency. I found that it
HAD to be sanded to expose the copper, while the old product worked
great without sanding.
I don't know if it's good for a trailered boat. It could be used, as
it is not affected by time out of the water. I just don't know if
you'd need the antifouling properties if the boat is only in the water
a few days at a time.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
copper, not a copper salt.
It's not very good at keeping soft, green growth off. Occasional
dustoff with the dri-diver keeps that under control. The soft stuff
seems to like sunlight as it only seems to grow right around the
waterline. A quick rub with the dri-diver every 3 or 4 weeks is all it
takes. The whole job takes about 10 minutes.
I liked the product because it contained a special epoxy resin that
functions a bit better as a water barrier than the regular
boat-builder's epoxy.
The company, American Marine Coatings, now sells a product called
Perma-Shield, but they don't sell retail. The new product claims all
the features of the old Copperpoxy, but they only sell to shipyards
and contractors.
It might be possible to duplicate the features of the copperpoxy by
adding copper flakes to a good water-barrier epoxy. I tried it a while
back, but couldn't quite duplicate the consistency. I found that it
HAD to be sanded to expose the copper, while the old product worked
great without sanding.
I don't know if it's good for a trailered boat. It could be used, as
it is not affected by time out of the water. I just don't know if
you'd need the antifouling properties if the boat is only in the water
a few days at a time.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
> Copper (as a sulphate or whatever) is often applied to plants as a
> trace element, so you might find the grass to be greener under the
> trailer. So how does it inhibit the growth of green weed on a hull?
> Don't know...
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> > Would copperpoxy be suitable for a trailer-sailed boat? I have
> visions of a
> > green trailer and no grass growing beneath where the boat is
> parked...
Epoxy products sells copper to add to epoxy for a home made Copperpoxy.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/2_fillers.html
The copper is about halfway down the page. Lots of info on this website,
but it is not well laid out at all.
Mark Zeiger used it on his Martha Jane, here is some shots of the
launching that show it. I think it works fairly well in our low fouling
environment. He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him. I
know he was not satisfied with the smoothness.
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/MJ/Selkie.htm
HJ
Paul Lefebvre wrote:
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/2_fillers.html
The copper is about halfway down the page. Lots of info on this website,
but it is not well laid out at all.
Mark Zeiger used it on his Martha Jane, here is some shots of the
launching that show it. I think it works fairly well in our low fouling
environment. He has never commented and I keep forgetting to ask him. I
know he was not satisfied with the smoothness.
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/MJ/Selkie.htm
HJ
Paul Lefebvre wrote:
>Would copperpoxy be suitable for a trailer-sailed boat? I have visions of a
>green trailer and no grass growing beneath where the boat is parked... but I
>am a big fan of epoxy with add-ins as an alternative to paint, since I put a
>graphite bottom on two kayaks - just like teflon, zings right off rocks and
>stuff.
>
>Any experience?
>
>Paul L
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
>willers32
>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:58 PM
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
>
>
>I use the following paint system exclusively:
>
>Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy. It's a pain to work with but
>lasts at least 10 years. You can't scratch it, but it can be sanded
>for slickness. It's virtually indestructable. You do not need to
>repaint after dry winter storage. The only care it requires is
>occasional dust off with scotchbrite pads. I do this in the water with
>a "dri-diver." I sail between fresh and salt water (the Hudson
>switches about half-way down river) and need to keep zebra muscles
>(fresh) and barnacles (salt) away. The Copperpoxy works great on both.
>Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy.From Googling for Copperpoxy: "Copperpoxy is no longer manufactured or
sold to the retail market."
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Copper (as a sulphate or whatever) is often applied to plants as a
trace element, so you might find the grass to be greener under the
trailer. So how does it inhibit the growth of green weed on a hull?
Don't know...
Howard
trace element, so you might find the grass to be greener under the
trailer. So how does it inhibit the growth of green weed on a hull?
Don't know...
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> Would copperpoxy be suitable for a trailer-sailed boat? I have
visions of a
> green trailer and no grass growing beneath where the boat is
parked...
Would copperpoxy be suitable for a trailer-sailed boat? I have visions of a
green trailer and no grass growing beneath where the boat is parked... but I
am a big fan of epoxy with add-ins as an alternative to paint, since I put a
graphite bottom on two kayaks - just like teflon, zings right off rocks and
stuff.
Any experience?
Paul L
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
willers32
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
I use the following paint system exclusively:
Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy. It's a pain to work with but
lasts at least 10 years. You can't scratch it, but it can be sanded
for slickness. It's virtually indestructable. You do not need to
repaint after dry winter storage. The only care it requires is
occasional dust off with scotchbrite pads. I do this in the water with
a "dri-diver." I sail between fresh and salt water (the Hudson
switches about half-way down river) and need to keep zebra muscles
(fresh) and barnacles (salt) away. The Copperpoxy works great on both.
Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
green trailer and no grass growing beneath where the boat is parked... but I
am a big fan of epoxy with add-ins as an alternative to paint, since I put a
graphite bottom on two kayaks - just like teflon, zings right off rocks and
stuff.
Any experience?
Paul L
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
willers32
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
I use the following paint system exclusively:
Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy. It's a pain to work with but
lasts at least 10 years. You can't scratch it, but it can be sanded
for slickness. It's virtually indestructable. You do not need to
repaint after dry winter storage. The only care it requires is
occasional dust off with scotchbrite pads. I do this in the water with
a "dri-diver." I sail between fresh and salt water (the Hudson
switches about half-way down river) and need to keep zebra muscles
(fresh) and barnacles (salt) away. The Copperpoxy works great on both.
Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
I use the following paint system exclusively:
Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy. It's a pain to work with but
lasts at least 10 years. You can't scratch it, but it can be sanded
for slickness. It's virtually indestructable. You do not need to
repaint after dry winter storage. The only care it requires is
occasional dust off with scotchbrite pads. I do this in the water with
a "dri-diver." I sail between fresh and salt water (the Hudson
switches about half-way down river) and need to keep zebra muscles
(fresh) and barnacles (salt) away. The Copperpoxy works great on both.
Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
Above the waterline I follow the Bolger principle of K.I.S.S. I use
high gloss exterior latex enamel house paint. It looks good, lasts
years and is easy to touch up when you get those inevitable dings. The
difference in cost makes it possible to afford the copperpoxy for the
bottom. I use Glidden "Gripper" primer to form the bond between the
epoxy and the house paint. So far two boats, no problems.
I've tried all the expensive, so called "marine" paints and found them
all to be a total waste of money. They don't last any longer than the
latex, and are much harder to use. Buy good quality house paint, and
go sailing.
***DO NOT USE LATEX BELOW THE WATERLINE!***
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...> wrote:
Below the waterline I use Copperpoxy. It's a pain to work with but
lasts at least 10 years. You can't scratch it, but it can be sanded
for slickness. It's virtually indestructable. You do not need to
repaint after dry winter storage. The only care it requires is
occasional dust off with scotchbrite pads. I do this in the water with
a "dri-diver." I sail between fresh and salt water (the Hudson
switches about half-way down river) and need to keep zebra muscles
(fresh) and barnacles (salt) away. The Copperpoxy works great on both.
Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
Above the waterline I follow the Bolger principle of K.I.S.S. I use
high gloss exterior latex enamel house paint. It looks good, lasts
years and is easy to touch up when you get those inevitable dings. The
difference in cost makes it possible to afford the copperpoxy for the
bottom. I use Glidden "Gripper" primer to form the bond between the
epoxy and the house paint. So far two boats, no problems.
I've tried all the expensive, so called "marine" paints and found them
all to be a total waste of money. They don't last any longer than the
latex, and are much harder to use. Buy good quality house paint, and
go sailing.
***DO NOT USE LATEX BELOW THE WATERLINE!***
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...> wrote:
> I've played with a number of different paint systems, andBrightsides over
> Brightsides high build primer did the worst of any upon immersionfor 36-48
> hours. It blistered rather badly. A cheapo alkyd oil enamel over aZinsser
> primer would not be affected over the same period. Nor would a Behrlatex
> enamel porch pain over Behr waterbased primer.wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "muscongus" <muscongus@f...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:33 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
>
>
> > While I don't like Brightsides for other reasons, I've found it works
> > just fine on bottom of TRAILER sailed boats. I used it on a Swampscott
> > dory and it held up amazingly well, it's really tough stuff.
> > I would agree that for a boat kept in the water use bottom paint of
> > coarse, following manufacturers instructions. These instructions for
> > primers etc. will vary from paint to paint.
> > But for boats that spend only a few days at a time in the water,
> > Brightsides will in fact be just fine.
> > Jack
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...>
> > > Brightsides is NOT for use underwater!posts
> > >
> > > Here are the instruction for VC-17 over bare wood from the Interlux
> > site:
> > >
> > > "BARE WOOD: Wipe clean. Sand surface, wipe clean. Apply 3-4 coats of
> > VC
> > > Tar."
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
> > > Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
> > > North East MD
> > > www.captnpauley.com
> > > pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away01930, Fax:
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
The boat sat for about 3 months between painting and launch. The blistering
occurred a about 2 years later the first time I left the boat in the water
for more than 24 hours. Ordinary 2-3 hour outings did not affect the paint
that I could see (or recall!).
occurred a about 2 years later the first time I left the boat in the water
for more than 24 hours. Ordinary 2-3 hour outings did not affect the paint
that I could see (or recall!).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:05 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
> > I've played with a number of different paint systems, and Brightsides
> > over Brightsides high build primer did the worst of any upon immersion
> > for 36-48 hours. It blistered rather badly.
>
> How long did you let it cure before immersing it?
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've played with a number of different paint systems, and BrightsidesHow long did you let it cure before immersing it?
> over Brightsides high build primer did the worst of any upon immersion
> for 36-48 hours. It blistered rather badly.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Topsides paint should not be used on bottoms. Brightsides takes a
while to fully cure. In the meantime it is vulnerable. I painted my
Bobcat deck with Brightside early in the morning. Although ostensibly
dry, the next morning for every drop of dew there was a blister.
The Interlux tech service man had two explanations. First the paint
was not fully cured or second the primer was not sanded properly. His
opinion tended towards number 2. His explanation was that primer
should be sanded to translucency (as it says on the can). Translucency
meant that almost all of the primer is sanded off. He further
explained that the primer has microballoons which can absorb water and
create blisters. Further the partial cure allows freer passage of
water through the paint film.
I have applied VC17 directly over epoxy. I remove amine blush before
sanding then sand then paint. I've had no problems with the VC17.
I used Interlux Interthane Plus on the topsides and bottom of my first
boat. It took all summer but when I pulled it out of the water the
bottom was all blisters. it was sanded down and painted with VC17.
Bob Chamberland
while to fully cure. In the meantime it is vulnerable. I painted my
Bobcat deck with Brightside early in the morning. Although ostensibly
dry, the next morning for every drop of dew there was a blister.
The Interlux tech service man had two explanations. First the paint
was not fully cured or second the primer was not sanded properly. His
opinion tended towards number 2. His explanation was that primer
should be sanded to translucency (as it says on the can). Translucency
meant that almost all of the primer is sanded off. He further
explained that the primer has microballoons which can absorb water and
create blisters. Further the partial cure allows freer passage of
water through the paint film.
I have applied VC17 directly over epoxy. I remove amine blush before
sanding then sand then paint. I've had no problems with the VC17.
I used Interlux Interthane Plus on the topsides and bottom of my first
boat. It took all summer but when I pulled it out of the water the
bottom was all blisters. it was sanded down and painted with VC17.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> I painted the bottom of my boat with Interlux Brightside topside
> paint, as a base coat over which I was going to put several coats of
> bottom paint. I didn't get that done in time for launch, and she
> spent a week in the water on just the enamel. When I hauled her out,
> the paint on the bottom surface was peeling off in great sheets. The
> primer underneath is still in good shape. Did I do something wrong in
> applying the paint, or does it have inherent problems with being in
> the water?
>
> -- Sue --
> (planning to put on three coats of VC-17 in the next day or two)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
I've played with a number of different paint systems, and Brightsides over
Brightsides high build primer did the worst of any upon immersion for 36-48
hours. It blistered rather badly. A cheapo alkyd oil enamel over a Zinsser
primer would not be affected over the same period. Nor would a Behr latex
enamel porch pain over Behr waterbased primer.
Brightsides high build primer did the worst of any upon immersion for 36-48
hours. It blistered rather badly. A cheapo alkyd oil enamel over a Zinsser
primer would not be affected over the same period. Nor would a Behr latex
enamel porch pain over Behr waterbased primer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "muscongus" <muscongus@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:33 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paint problem
> While I don't like Brightsides for other reasons, I've found it works
> just fine on bottom of TRAILER sailed boats. I used it on a Swampscott
> dory and it held up amazingly well, it's really tough stuff.
> I would agree that for a boat kept in the water use bottom paint of
> coarse, following manufacturers instructions. These instructions for
> primers etc. will vary from paint to paint.
> But for boats that spend only a few days at a time in the water,
> Brightsides will in fact be just fine.
> Jack
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> > Brightsides is NOT for use underwater!
> >
> > Here are the instruction for VC-17 over bare wood from the Interlux
> site:
> >
> > "BARE WOOD: Wipe clean. Sand surface, wipe clean. Apply 3-4 coats of
> VC
> > Tar."
> >
> >
> > Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
> > Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
> > North East MD
> > www.captnpauley.com
> > pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
While I don't like Brightsides for other reasons, I've found it works
just fine on bottom of TRAILER sailed boats. I used it on a Swampscott
dory and it held up amazingly well, it's really tough stuff.
I would agree that for a boat kept in the water use bottom paint of
coarse, following manufacturers instructions. These instructions for
primers etc. will vary from paint to paint.
But for boats that spend only a few days at a time in the water,
Brightsides will in fact be just fine.
Jack
just fine on bottom of TRAILER sailed boats. I used it on a Swampscott
dory and it held up amazingly well, it's really tough stuff.
I would agree that for a boat kept in the water use bottom paint of
coarse, following manufacturers instructions. These instructions for
primers etc. will vary from paint to paint.
But for boats that spend only a few days at a time in the water,
Brightsides will in fact be just fine.
Jack
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> Brightsides is NOT for use underwater!
>
> Here are the instruction for VC-17 over bare wood from the Interlux
site:
>
> "BARE WOOD: Wipe clean. Sand surface, wipe clean. Apply 3-4 coats of
VC
> Tar."
>
>
> Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
> Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
> North East MD
> www.captnpauley.com
> pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Sue,
It is important to check the compatibility between paints before
applying one over the other. I made the mistake once of painting a
50,000 barrel tank with red lead primer (which was standard practice
back then). Before the tank was completely erected, someone had the
brilliant idea of using an new vinyl paint instead of the conventional
system. Imagine the surprise of the entire engineering department when
our field engineer reported the vinyl was peeling off in huge sheets.
Sometimes the underlying paint will cure to the point that subsequent
coats are acceptable. However caution is always advised.
Bryan Swinney
It is important to check the compatibility between paints before
applying one over the other. I made the mistake once of painting a
50,000 barrel tank with red lead primer (which was standard practice
back then). Before the tank was completely erected, someone had the
brilliant idea of using an new vinyl paint instead of the conventional
system. Imagine the surprise of the entire engineering department when
our field engineer reported the vinyl was peeling off in huge sheets.
Sometimes the underlying paint will cure to the point that subsequent
coats are acceptable. However caution is always advised.
Bryan Swinney
Brightsides is NOT for use underwater!
Here are the instruction for VC-17 over bare wood from the Interlux site:
"BARE WOOD: Wipe clean. Sand surface, wipe clean. Apply 3-4 coats of VC
Tar."
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Here are the instruction for VC-17 over bare wood from the Interlux site:
"BARE WOOD: Wipe clean. Sand surface, wipe clean. Apply 3-4 coats of VC
Tar."
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
I put bottom paint straight on top of epoxy with good results.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-Hi,
Both these cases of topside paint peeling off in big sheets after
short times in the water were most likely caused by improper surface
preparation or some primer/topcoat incompatability issue. I never
use bottom paint on trailer sailed boats, they stay in for weeks and
the only difference from bottom paint should be marine growth.
Jack
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
Both these cases of topside paint peeling off in big sheets after
short times in the water were most likely caused by improper surface
preparation or some primer/topcoat incompatability issue. I never
use bottom paint on trailer sailed boats, they stay in for weeks and
the only difference from bottom paint should be marine growth.
Jack
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
> Don't put topside paint underwater for any great length of time. Ifound
> Brightsides particularly poor in this respect, blistering badlyafter 24
> hours in the water. You should be glad it all came off before youput the
> bottom paint on otherwise it would have taken the expensive bottompaint
> with it!either the
>
> If had a boat that needed bottom paint, I'd apply it directly to
> wood in the case of a planked up boat or over a barrier coat inthe case of
> a composite boat.coats of
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 12:24 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Paint problem
>
>
> | I painted the bottom of my boat with Interlux Brightside topside
> | paint, as a base coat over which I was going to put several
> | bottom paint. I didn't get that done in time for launch, and sheout,
> | spent a week in the water on just the enamel. When I hauled her
> | the paint on the bottom surface was peeling off in greatsheets. The
> | primer underneath is still in good shape. Did I do somethingwrong in
> | applying the paint, or does it have inherent problems with beingin
> | the water?horses
> |
> | -- Sue --
> | (planning to put on three coats of VC-17 in the next day or two)
> |
> | --
> | Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,Fred' posts
> | - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snipaway
> | - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> | - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> | Yahoo! Groups Links
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
Don't put topside paint underwater for any great length of time. I found
Brightsides particularly poor in this respect, blistering badly after 24
hours in the water. You should be glad it all came off before you put the
bottom paint on otherwise it would have taken the expensive bottom paint
with it!
If had a boat that needed bottom paint, I'd apply it directly to either the
wood in the case of a planked up boat or over a barrier coat in the case of
a composite boat.
Brightsides particularly poor in this respect, blistering badly after 24
hours in the water. You should be glad it all came off before you put the
bottom paint on otherwise it would have taken the expensive bottom paint
with it!
If had a boat that needed bottom paint, I'd apply it directly to either the
wood in the case of a planked up boat or over a barrier coat in the case of
a composite boat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: [bolger] Paint problem
| I painted the bottom of my boat with Interlux Brightside topside
| paint, as a base coat over which I was going to put several coats of
| bottom paint. I didn't get that done in time for launch, and she
| spent a week in the water on just the enamel. When I hauled her out,
| the paint on the bottom surface was peeling off in great sheets. The
| primer underneath is still in good shape. Did I do something wrong in
| applying the paint, or does it have inherent problems with being in
| the water?
|
| -- Sue --
| (planning to put on three coats of VC-17 in the next day or two)
|
| --
| Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
I painted the bottom of my boat with Interlux Brightside topside
paint, as a base coat over which I was going to put several coats of
bottom paint. I didn't get that done in time for launch, and she
spent a week in the water on just the enamel. When I hauled her out,
the paint on the bottom surface was peeling off in great sheets. The
primer underneath is still in good shape. Did I do something wrong in
applying the paint, or does it have inherent problems with being in
the water?
-- Sue --
(planning to put on three coats of VC-17 in the next day or two)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
paint, as a base coat over which I was going to put several coats of
bottom paint. I didn't get that done in time for launch, and she
spent a week in the water on just the enamel. When I hauled her out,
the paint on the bottom surface was peeling off in great sheets. The
primer underneath is still in good shape. Did I do something wrong in
applying the paint, or does it have inherent problems with being in
the water?
-- Sue --
(planning to put on three coats of VC-17 in the next day or two)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>