RE: [bolger] Graphite/Epoxy Anyone?
I've got a couple strip sea kayaks I gave this bottom treatment to, using
West system's graphite mixed with their epoxy - it's been a few years now so
can't recall the ratios, but I'm sure I did what they recommend in their
literature, and I believe it included a little colloidal silica in the mix.
I like the results - we've got lots of shallows, sandbars, oyster beds and
rock gardens around here so I'm constantly scraping bottom but the graphite
protects well. After applying it requires at least a light buffing with
sandpaper (be careful not to sand through it - DAMHIK!) but then it gives a
nice flat, even finish, and scrapes from beaching and other abuse don't show
up at all - a nice low-maintenance finish that keeps the boat looking good
without alot of fuss or care in use. It's also easy to repair - my older
boat has a very pronounced skeg built into the stern and that point tends to
get alot more wear than any other part of the boat, so it wore through after
several years; I just mixed up another batch, extra thick, and slathered on
a couple layers in that area to build up thickness, and after it dried I
sanded it to feather it in with what was already there, and the boat is good
as new.
I did have a bit of a hard time getting a nice line where the graphite ends
and the rest of the hull begins, as it doesn't behave like paint against
tape - you may want to paint a contrasting stripe along the border line to
hide any sins in this area, but on my strip boats I wanted just wood and
black; struggled with this on the first boat and eventually was more or less
satisfied. On the second boat I just sanded the lumpy edge of the graphite
down smooth and eliminated any unwanted overlaps, then I varnished the rest
of the boat, down to and slighly over the line; finally I taped over the
varnish and got the line I wanted with flat black spray paint - turned out
real nice and blended perfectly with the graphite when it's buffed.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
wmrpage
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:55 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Graphite/Epoxy Anyone?
Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottom
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
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West system's graphite mixed with their epoxy - it's been a few years now so
can't recall the ratios, but I'm sure I did what they recommend in their
literature, and I believe it included a little colloidal silica in the mix.
I like the results - we've got lots of shallows, sandbars, oyster beds and
rock gardens around here so I'm constantly scraping bottom but the graphite
protects well. After applying it requires at least a light buffing with
sandpaper (be careful not to sand through it - DAMHIK!) but then it gives a
nice flat, even finish, and scrapes from beaching and other abuse don't show
up at all - a nice low-maintenance finish that keeps the boat looking good
without alot of fuss or care in use. It's also easy to repair - my older
boat has a very pronounced skeg built into the stern and that point tends to
get alot more wear than any other part of the boat, so it wore through after
several years; I just mixed up another batch, extra thick, and slathered on
a couple layers in that area to build up thickness, and after it dried I
sanded it to feather it in with what was already there, and the boat is good
as new.
I did have a bit of a hard time getting a nice line where the graphite ends
and the rest of the hull begins, as it doesn't behave like paint against
tape - you may want to paint a contrasting stripe along the border line to
hide any sins in this area, but on my strip boats I wanted just wood and
black; struggled with this on the first boat and eventually was more or less
satisfied. On the second boat I just sanded the lumpy edge of the graphite
down smooth and eliminated any unwanted overlaps, then I varnished the rest
of the boat, down to and slighly over the line; finally I taped over the
varnish and got the line I wanted with flat black spray paint - turned out
real nice and blended perfectly with the graphite when it's buffed.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
wmrpage
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:55 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Graphite/Epoxy Anyone?
Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottom
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
I have used this bottom treatment on several boats now. I really like it and am getting pretty good at making a decent job of it for a fumble fingered farmer.
I use 10% graphite by volume in straight epoxy (hardener and resin only) no other additives, as per the G. Bros. That may seem like a lot of graphite but you will probably only use 3 or so oz. (plus spillage) for the area you mentioned.
My current prefered application method is dry cloth on the dry plywood. Pour and squeegee on straight epoxy, using a drywall knife to pull excess epoxy off the cloth as the epoxy begins to set, not attempting to fill the weave at this time, but keeping the cloth tight to the ply and wrinkle & sag free with the knife pressure... While still green, but beyond tacky, scrape on a small amount of epoxy with micro balloons to only fill the weave. I get real aggressive with the drywall knife to get this coat scrapped as flat as possible.. This will take a suprisingly small amount of epoxy/filler as you are only filling the weave. After that's beyond tacky I apply a epoxy + 10% graphite coat with a WEST roller (cut in half to 3.5" to keep the working area small) and immediately tip lightly with a dry 3" brush to knock out the air bubbles.. Let it then flow coat and set.
Garth's thiick clear plastic cover method might be usefull at this point.
Anyway, you get a real sexy looking gloss black finish, with whatever airbubbles and waves you allowed to cure into it.. The gloss will dissapear with a light sanding (as tough as the coating is, it sands easily) to show a medium gray flat finish.. Smooth, with shiny black dimples showing any low spots... Not a "perfect finish, but nice to me.
On one small boat I rolled on four coats of graphite/epoxy each on top of the still tacky previous coats.. When cured it was quite thick, but very wavey in thickness. Aggresive sanding gave me a very smooth bottom at the expense of much epoxy and graphite plus a huge black sooty mess in the shop.. Too much a mess and waste for me to try again.
What's everyone else doing?
Rick
wmrpage <wmrpage@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottom
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I use 10% graphite by volume in straight epoxy (hardener and resin only) no other additives, as per the G. Bros. That may seem like a lot of graphite but you will probably only use 3 or so oz. (plus spillage) for the area you mentioned.
My current prefered application method is dry cloth on the dry plywood. Pour and squeegee on straight epoxy, using a drywall knife to pull excess epoxy off the cloth as the epoxy begins to set, not attempting to fill the weave at this time, but keeping the cloth tight to the ply and wrinkle & sag free with the knife pressure... While still green, but beyond tacky, scrape on a small amount of epoxy with micro balloons to only fill the weave. I get real aggressive with the drywall knife to get this coat scrapped as flat as possible.. This will take a suprisingly small amount of epoxy/filler as you are only filling the weave. After that's beyond tacky I apply a epoxy + 10% graphite coat with a WEST roller (cut in half to 3.5" to keep the working area small) and immediately tip lightly with a dry 3" brush to knock out the air bubbles.. Let it then flow coat and set.
Garth's thiick clear plastic cover method might be usefull at this point.
Anyway, you get a real sexy looking gloss black finish, with whatever airbubbles and waves you allowed to cure into it.. The gloss will dissapear with a light sanding (as tough as the coating is, it sands easily) to show a medium gray flat finish.. Smooth, with shiny black dimples showing any low spots... Not a "perfect finish, but nice to me.
On one small boat I rolled on four coats of graphite/epoxy each on top of the still tacky previous coats.. When cured it was quite thick, but very wavey in thickness. Aggresive sanding gave me a very smooth bottom at the expense of much epoxy and graphite plus a huge black sooty mess in the shop.. Too much a mess and waste for me to try again.
What's everyone else doing?
Rick
wmrpage <wmrpage@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottom
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating safety Boating magazine Great outdoors
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
At 08:54 PM 8/10/05, you wrote:
that will be used in whitewater. His book (that I don't have any more) has
proportions for that use. I didn't actually use it myself.
Regards,
RonB
>Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottomGilpatrick (How to build a strip canoe) in Maine recommends it for canoes
>finish?
that will be used in whitewater. His book (that I don't have any more) has
proportions for that use. I didn't actually use it myself.
Regards,
RonB
Does anyone have any experience using graphite & epoxy as a bottom
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
finish?
My current project is a small daysailer that I intend to be
beachable, that not likely to be that frequently beached, or on
anything but sand. Construction is Occume ply - very nice French
("Joubert") stuff - but pretty soft. I have enough 4 oz. glass cloth
left over from a previous project to cover the bottom, which should
improve its abrasion resistance.
I'm thinking about using an epoxy/graphite finish for the glassed
bottom. My father has a professionally built cedar strip canoe that
is fininshed in this fashion. It seems rather more resistant to
cosmetic damage than paint would offer, but I don't think that his
use amounts to a very rigorous test of the material. My interest is
mainly in its cosmetic properties - I don't expect enhancement in
sailing performance.
I've never used the stuff. In fact, I've never even seen the powder
itself. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience with
the stuff - either applying it or with its properties in use.
The boat will be trailer-sailed, so anti-fouling is not an issue. I'm
using West epoxy. I'm thinking the approach would be to glass the
bottom with unfilled expoxy, then apply a layer or two of graphite-
filled expoxy as stiff as one can get (high filler/resin ratio) and
still permit the stuff to flow before setting, then sand with
progressively finer grit and perhaps gild the lily with a coat of wax
before the maiden voyage.
I'll have something less than 45 ft. sq. to cover. Does anyone have a
notion about the quantity of graphite required? Jamestown sells it in
6 oz. and 12 oz. containers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN