Re: Sneakeasy change
Sneakeasy has an identical, or nearly so, hull shape and size to
Firebrand, a design Bolger developed for steam propulsion. In the
chapter on this design in "30-Odd Boats". In the previous chapter is
Bolger's 20' x 3'8" inboard-engined interpretation of Viper, an eary
Hickman design that is very similar to Firebrand and Sneakeasy.
Viper is in some ways close to Tennessee in that it has a certain
amount of rocker aft, whereas the other two have none. Viper has a
forefoot that is just submerged at rest, something Bolger usually
avoids with his sharpie designs.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oneiraca2004" <oneiraca2004@y...>
wrote:
Firebrand, a design Bolger developed for steam propulsion. In the
chapter on this design in "30-Odd Boats". In the previous chapter is
Bolger's 20' x 3'8" inboard-engined interpretation of Viper, an eary
Hickman design that is very similar to Firebrand and Sneakeasy.
Viper is in some ways close to Tennessee in that it has a certain
amount of rocker aft, whereas the other two have none. Viper has a
forefoot that is just submerged at rest, something Bolger usually
avoids with his sharpie designs.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oneiraca2004" <oneiraca2004@y...>
wrote:
>century
>
> Hi Harry.
> What attracted me to sneakeasy was the lines. But as soon as I
> looked into this design I realized that this boat like all boats
> cames from somewhere...in this case, I believe an early 20th
> fast flat bottomed boat called Viper (about 20 feet long and quite(step
> skinny and fast). So Boldger's design which I like and have
> purchased is in effect a massaged version of Viper. I understand
> that the original Sneakeasy design has been modified too
> significantly, in a big way, by the addition of a second chine
> version).
Hi Harry.
What attracted me to sneakeasy was the lines. But as soon as I
looked into this design I realized that this boat like all boats
cames from somewhere...in this case, I believe an early 20th century
fast flat bottomed boat called Viper (about 20 feet long and quite
skinny and fast). So Boldger's design which I like and have
purchased is in effect a massaged version of Viper. I understand
that the original Sneakeasy design has been modified too
significantly, in a big way, by the addition of a second chine (step
version). My point is this: Wanting to customize a design is human.
why blame people for doing it. My only agreement with your argument
is that those who modify Sneakeasy should call the boat another name.
Cheers.
What attracted me to sneakeasy was the lines. But as soon as I
looked into this design I realized that this boat like all boats
cames from somewhere...in this case, I believe an early 20th century
fast flat bottomed boat called Viper (about 20 feet long and quite
skinny and fast). So Boldger's design which I like and have
purchased is in effect a massaged version of Viper. I understand
that the original Sneakeasy design has been modified too
significantly, in a big way, by the addition of a second chine (step
version). My point is this: Wanting to customize a design is human.
why blame people for doing it. My only agreement with your argument
is that those who modify Sneakeasy should call the boat another name.
Cheers.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> What is it about the Sneakeasy that makes people want to modify
it? Some
> proposed change pops every couple of months or so. Add a cabin,
make it
> longer, make it shorter, make a V entry, make it wider; you don't
see
> stuff like that about the Black Skimmer a design equally lusted
after.
>
> I have been around Fritz Funk's Sneakeasy for several years. It is
> perfect as it is, if you want to change it then you don't want a
> Sneakeasy you want something else and you should define what it is
and
> pursue a source for a design that fulfills your wants. The only
change
> other than cosmetic ones that made sense to me was Jeff's inboard
and he
> made no changes to the hull.
>
> The Sneakeasy looks incredibly simple but is ever so much more
than the
> sum of its parts. Has anybody who owns a Sneakeasy proposed
changes?
>
> For the individual who was suggesting a jet drive a while ago
Fritz has
> been running his boat in the shallows of the river sloughs of
Wisconsin
> the last two years. He tilts the motor up and the extensions act
like a
> poor mans tunnel drive. He has pulled up next to a stranded Jon
boat to
> retrieve passengers without ever touching bottom.
>
> HJ
What is it about the Sneakeasy that makes people want to modify it? Some
proposed change pops every couple of months or so. Add a cabin, make it
longer, make it shorter, make a V entry, make it wider; you don't see
stuff like that about the Black Skimmer a design equally lusted after.
I have been around Fritz Funk's Sneakeasy for several years. It is
perfect as it is, if you want to change it then you don't want a
Sneakeasy you want something else and you should define what it is and
pursue a source for a design that fulfills your wants. The only change
other than cosmetic ones that made sense to me was Jeff's inboard and he
made no changes to the hull.
The Sneakeasy looks incredibly simple but is ever so much more than the
sum of its parts. Has anybody who owns a Sneakeasy proposed changes?
For the individual who was suggesting a jet drive a while ago Fritz has
been running his boat in the shallows of the river sloughs of Wisconsin
the last two years. He tilts the motor up and the extensions act like a
poor mans tunnel drive. He has pulled up next to a stranded Jon boat to
retrieve passengers without ever touching bottom.
HJ
proposed change pops every couple of months or so. Add a cabin, make it
longer, make it shorter, make a V entry, make it wider; you don't see
stuff like that about the Black Skimmer a design equally lusted after.
I have been around Fritz Funk's Sneakeasy for several years. It is
perfect as it is, if you want to change it then you don't want a
Sneakeasy you want something else and you should define what it is and
pursue a source for a design that fulfills your wants. The only change
other than cosmetic ones that made sense to me was Jeff's inboard and he
made no changes to the hull.
The Sneakeasy looks incredibly simple but is ever so much more than the
sum of its parts. Has anybody who owns a Sneakeasy proposed changes?
For the individual who was suggesting a jet drive a while ago Fritz has
been running his boat in the shallows of the river sloughs of Wisconsin
the last two years. He tilts the motor up and the extensions act like a
poor mans tunnel drive. He has pulled up next to a stranded Jon boat to
retrieve passengers without ever touching bottom.
HJ
Hi Bruce
Thanks for the tips (about CAD files) I will look into this.
In my experience the thinnest steel I can weld (Mig) with minimum distortion (washboard look) is 18 which, I know will make this craft quite heavy...compared to Bolger's plywood sneakeasy.
The strategy that I am contemplating is to build the hull with the additional chine (step version) and one single channel (the whole length)as a bottom stiffener. The hull (frameless approach) would have only two frames: (1) maximum beam and (2)transom. The plates would be welded to chines via 3/16" x 1" flat longitudinals. The goal would be to achieve a sort of monocoque integrity without recourse to compound curves which are not part of spirit of the design. This would require that I built the deck, too, out of steel (gauge 24) instead of ply ( contrary to what I may have previously stated).
As Howard pointed ,metal fatigue is likely to be an issue. Very true! So, let us say that I this point I am exploring the "feasibility" of this project and it will be canned if there is any doubt.
The craft's powerplant would be relocated to mid-ship (inboard 35-50HP) with a jet pump instead of a prop.
Thanks.
Philippe.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
The Hulls.exe includes a Sneakeasy template
of the 'step version' see _sneakesy.hul_ in the
distribution files, with panel expansions,
...or other CAD programs work too.
What guage of metal sheet do you propose to use?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Thanks for the tips (about CAD files) I will look into this.
In my experience the thinnest steel I can weld (Mig) with minimum distortion (washboard look) is 18 which, I know will make this craft quite heavy...compared to Bolger's plywood sneakeasy.
The strategy that I am contemplating is to build the hull with the additional chine (step version) and one single channel (the whole length)as a bottom stiffener. The hull (frameless approach) would have only two frames: (1) maximum beam and (2)transom. The plates would be welded to chines via 3/16" x 1" flat longitudinals. The goal would be to achieve a sort of monocoque integrity without recourse to compound curves which are not part of spirit of the design. This would require that I built the deck, too, out of steel (gauge 24) instead of ply ( contrary to what I may have previously stated).
As Howard pointed ,metal fatigue is likely to be an issue. Very true! So, let us say that I this point I am exploring the "feasibility" of this project and it will be canned if there is any doubt.
The craft's powerplant would be relocated to mid-ship (inboard 35-50HP) with a jet pump instead of a prop.
Thanks.
Philippe.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> the precise skin area of this craftLayout the boat out in a CAD program.
The Hulls.exe includes a Sneakeasy template
of the 'step version' see _sneakesy.hul_ in the
distribution files, with panel expansions,
...or other CAD programs work too.
What guage of metal sheet do you propose to use?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Boating magazine Alaska outdoors Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Goto HYPERLINK "http://www.google.com/"www.google.com
Type �freeship� into the search bar
Click �I Feel Lucky�
You have arrived!
:-)
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Sam Glasscock
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:17 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sneakeasy. Metal construction
Stefan, I know this was posted recently, but I have
lost it--do you have a link for a download of
FREEship? If a steel sneakeasy works, I may want to
model a tortoise in ferrocement!
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
HYPERLINK "http://mail.yahoo.com"http://mail.yahoo.com
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Type �freeship� into the search bar
Click �I Feel Lucky�
You have arrived!
:-)
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Sam Glasscock
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:17 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sneakeasy. Metal construction
Stefan, I know this was posted recently, but I have
lost it--do you have a link for a download of
FREEship? If a steel sneakeasy works, I may want to
model a tortoise in ferrocement!
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
> --- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:__________________________________________________
> > If you are, contrary to my hunch, somewhere near
> the mark, then you
> > can go back and do it properly, either the way
> Bruce suggests or,
> > perhaps more simply, cutting the panel shapes out
> of material of a
> > known weight per unit area and weighing them.
>
> With the actual version of FREE!ship (1.91), you can
> specify for each
> panel (called "layer") a thickness and the specific
> weight. The
> program spits out then the weight of each panel, the
> total weight, and
> the total center of gravity.
>
> If you are more familiar with "Hulls", then you can
> model the boat in
> Hulls, then import it into FREE!ship.
>
> Have fun!
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
HYPERLINK "http://mail.yahoo.com"http://mail.yahoo.com
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 9/13/2005
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stefan, I know this was posted recently, but I have
lost it--do you have a link for a download of
FREEship? If a steel sneakeasy works, I may want to
model a tortoise in ferrocement!
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
lost it--do you have a link for a download of
FREEship? If a steel sneakeasy works, I may want to
model a tortoise in ferrocement!
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
> --- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:__________________________________________________
> > If you are, contrary to my hunch, somewhere near
> the mark, then you
> > can go back and do it properly, either the way
> Bruce suggests or,
> > perhaps more simply, cutting the panel shapes out
> of material of a
> > known weight per unit area and weighing them.
>
> With the actual version of FREE!ship (1.91), you can
> specify for each
> panel (called "layer") a thickness and the specific
> weight. The
> program spits out then the weight of each panel, the
> total weight, and
> the total center of gravity.
>
> If you are more familiar with "Hulls", then you can
> model the boat in
> Hulls, then import it into FREE!ship.
>
> Have fun!
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
panel (called "layer") a thickness and the specific weight. The
program spits out then the weight of each panel, the total weight, and
the total center of gravity.
If you are more familiar with "Hulls", then you can model the boat in
Hulls, then import it into FREE!ship.
Have fun!
Stefan
> If you are, contrary to my hunch, somewhere near the mark, then youWith the actual version of FREE!ship (1.91), you can specify for each
> can go back and do it properly, either the way Bruce suggests or,
> perhaps more simply, cutting the panel shapes out of material of a
> known weight per unit area and weighing them.
panel (called "layer") a thickness and the specific weight. The
program spits out then the weight of each panel, the total weight, and
the total center of gravity.
If you are more familiar with "Hulls", then you can model the boat in
Hulls, then import it into FREE!ship.
Have fun!
Stefan
Very roughly, the bottom area in sq. ft. is 26.5 x 4.25 x 3/4.
The sides would be roughly 2 x 26.5 x 2 sq. ft.
Work out how thick the sheet steel would be, multiply and add as
necessary (expressing the steel thickness as a decimel fraction of a
foot), then multiply by the density of steel in lb. per cu. ft. Add,
say, 1/3 for steel framing, including the transom; you'd need plenty
because of the thin metal and because the panels have no compound
curvature. My guess is that by the time you get that far, and add in
the weights of the crew, engine and fuel, you'll be so far above the
1,300-lb designed displacement you won't bother estimating the timber,
ply, paint, fasteners etc. needed to finish the job.
If you are, contrary to my hunch, somewhere near the mark, then you
can go back and do it properly, either the way Bruce suggests or,
perhaps more simply, cutting the panel shapes out of material of a
known weight per unit area and weighing them. Actually, with such
simple geometric shapes for the panels, it's pretty easy to calculate
the areas using not much more than simple arithmetic and a calculator.
Another way to look at it is to note that the ply hull sides are meant
to be 3/8". If steel is about ten times denser than wood, to get the
same weight, you'd have to use steel about 40/1000" thick. Pretty
flimsy, I'd say, but maybe not impossible.
It might be do-able in aluminum plate.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oneiraca2004" <oneiraca2004@y...>
wrote:
The sides would be roughly 2 x 26.5 x 2 sq. ft.
Work out how thick the sheet steel would be, multiply and add as
necessary (expressing the steel thickness as a decimel fraction of a
foot), then multiply by the density of steel in lb. per cu. ft. Add,
say, 1/3 for steel framing, including the transom; you'd need plenty
because of the thin metal and because the panels have no compound
curvature. My guess is that by the time you get that far, and add in
the weights of the crew, engine and fuel, you'll be so far above the
1,300-lb designed displacement you won't bother estimating the timber,
ply, paint, fasteners etc. needed to finish the job.
If you are, contrary to my hunch, somewhere near the mark, then you
can go back and do it properly, either the way Bruce suggests or,
perhaps more simply, cutting the panel shapes out of material of a
known weight per unit area and weighing them. Actually, with such
simple geometric shapes for the panels, it's pretty easy to calculate
the areas using not much more than simple arithmetic and a calculator.
Another way to look at it is to note that the ply hull sides are meant
to be 3/8". If steel is about ten times denser than wood, to get the
same weight, you'd have to use steel about 40/1000" thick. Pretty
flimsy, I'd say, but maybe not impossible.
It might be do-able in aluminum plate.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oneiraca2004" <oneiraca2004@y...>
wrote:
> Hi Group,(frameless
> I am looking into the feasibility of modifying Bolger's Sneakeasy
> 26'.6 "plans in order to build this boat out of light gauge
> steel). I know it sounds crazy. But this is not my first boatbuilding
> adventure and in the past I have always fallen back on my feet. So I
> am reasonably confident it will work. What I would need, either from
> Bolger himself or any of you people is the precise skin area of this
> craft, which I don't find on the set of blueprints which I bought.
> Any other advice too, from this group will be welcome.
> Thanks in advance.
> the precise skin area of this craftLayout the boat out in a CAD program.
The Hulls.exe includes a Sneakeasy template
of the 'step version' see _sneakesy.hul_ in the
distribution files, with panel expansions,
...or other CAD programs work too.
What guage of metal sheet do you propose to use?
Hi Group,
I am looking into the feasibility of modifying Bolger's Sneakeasy
26'.6 "plans in order to build this boat out of light gauge (frameless
steel). I know it sounds crazy. But this is not my first boat building
adventure and in the past I have always fallen back on my feet. So I
am reasonably confident it will work. What I would need, either from
Bolger himself or any of you people is the precise skin area of this
craft, which I don't find on the set of blueprints which I bought.
Any other advice too, from this group will be welcome.
Thanks in advance.
I am looking into the feasibility of modifying Bolger's Sneakeasy
26'.6 "plans in order to build this boat out of light gauge (frameless
steel). I know it sounds crazy. But this is not my first boat building
adventure and in the past I have always fallen back on my feet. So I
am reasonably confident it will work. What I would need, either from
Bolger himself or any of you people is the precise skin area of this
craft, which I don't find on the set of blueprints which I bought.
Any other advice too, from this group will be welcome.
Thanks in advance.