Re: Best Dinghy
Here's 'Red Racer' a PDRacer #38, tow-planing?
http://tinyurl.com/c8mt7
Or howsabout Skimmer? With 4 aboard you wouldn't want more'n 2HP,
and her performance under 7ft oars would never be sparkling, but
empty at 8 knots she'd have to plane, wouldn't she? What total
displacement is she rated for? Have a look at the rest of photo
folder #23 here
http://tinyurl.com/9975g
Graeme
http://tinyurl.com/c8mt7
Or howsabout Skimmer? With 4 aboard you wouldn't want more'n 2HP,
and her performance under 7ft oars would never be sparkling, but
empty at 8 knots she'd have to plane, wouldn't she? What total
displacement is she rated for? Have a look at the rest of photo
folder #23 here
http://tinyurl.com/9975g
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> Of course this is what the Best Dinghy looks like when tagging
along behind.
> <g>
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/43145927@N00/49254949/
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the
divinely
> provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the
brink of
> starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump
missionary.
> <Oscar Wilde>
Hi,
A friend built a T-Galley. It was a nice boat but not one I'd think of
as a tender. Certainly not if it involved lifting it on deck... not
without a couple of husky deckhands to do the hoisting. And, yes,
coming in over the bow would be a touch reminiscent of logrolling.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people & astonish the rest" -
Mark Twain
******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@w...>
wrote:
major adventure!
A friend built a T-Galley. It was a nice boat but not one I'd think of
as a tender. Certainly not if it involved lifting it on deck... not
without a couple of husky deckhands to do the hoisting. And, yes,
coming in over the bow would be a touch reminiscent of logrolling.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people & astonish the rest" -
Mark Twain
******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@w...>
wrote:
> I built a Thomaston Galley many years ago. Never tried to tow it,but it was very wet in a chop, and boarding over the bow could be a
major adventure!
>
> JohnT
Of course this is what the Best Dinghy looks like when tagging along behind.
<g>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43145927@N00/49254949/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the divinely
provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of
starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump missionary.
<Oscar Wilde>
<g>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43145927@N00/49254949/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the divinely
provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of
starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump missionary.
<Oscar Wilde>
I built a Thomaston Galley many years ago. Never tried to tow it, but it
was very wet in a chop, and boarding over the bow could be a major
adventure!
JohnT
was very wet in a chop, and boarding over the bow could be a major
adventure!
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: "don_gordy_gordon" <don_gordy_gordon@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:51 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Best Dinghy
>I think one of the first boats Dynamite and PCB collaborated on was
> designed as a "... triple threat - oars, sail, and power." Thomaston
> (?) Galley. It's featured in Payson's "Go Build Your Own Boat" - a
> good, informative read.
> I'd think it would certainly hold four, avoid the boarding problems
> inherent with a dory, and in addition, have the ability to sail.
> A tow eye, if mounted low and inline with the pull of the line,
> should allow the v-hull to track well at eight or more knots.
>
> Phil & Friends seem to draw an awful lot of cartoons with Bricks
> onboard, which seems an implicit endorsement - and the width is
> variable for variable expected loads. Harold sells plans for a 38"
> beam on the same rocker as the original 48" beam.
> While the cartoons obviously only show the Bricks or Tortise on deck,
> there are pictures of them being towed - how well, and at what speed,
> I have no idea.
>
> Just food for thought.
>
> Gordy
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>>
>> I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
>> to this question.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
| Ask him specificallly about towing at 8 knots.
Towing my Sunfish at 8-12 knots is a scream. Water shoots out of the
daggerboard slot like a geyser, quickly filling the little footwell cockpit.
Being the brilliant guy I am, I thought "A-ha, I'll just leave the
daggerboard in place to plug the hole!" Only my idea wasn't nearly so
brilliant as me, 'cuz the boat promptly veered off in an entirely different
direction and capsized.
Hi Captain - Of Course - at least 1/2 gallon an I'm working on the second half which helps me to visualize a Super Brick cut in half for a Super brick Cat.
Aloha - Jack
Aloha - Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 4:05 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Best Dinghy
Jack,
Sorry, but I have to ask... by any chance - did Cap'n Scurvey's Best
Blackjack Rum have anything to do with this double-vision? Could be
the sun, but the symptoms point to rotgut.<G>
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind" -
Humphrey Bogart
***********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "BARBARA SPOERING" <b.spoering@w...> wrote:
> Hi All - I've had an interesting thought but in the back of my
mind I'm sure someone in the Bolger group knows enough to shoot down
my balloon - - -
> I like multihulls and thought of building the "Rubens
Nymph" , but cutting out the extra foot in width from the bottom and
bringing those side edges up to meet the fore and aft seat, effectivly
creating a catamaran type hull. It won't be any lighter but will
have the stability of the Rubens and carrying capacity of the original
Nymph, (I don't need more) might even be a bit easier to row ?????
Any Thoughts
>
> Aloha - Jack - Ft Lauderdale
> Maybe it's the hot sun downn here?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have a note from the web from December00 with the identificationI think it was/is the "Donovan Tender"
>http://mims.com/mailb/junebug.htmthat concludes:
> "The one weakness of "June Bug", though, is towing. A bow of this
> shape is prone to yaw if the forefoot cuts the water, as can happen
> in a following sea or if it slews into the quarter wave of the towing
> boat. In the next issue we'll show a new design for a tender for
> which good towing behavior was emphasized."
>
> The source of the quote was not identified, but it sounds like Phil
> Bolger in MAIB. Does anyone know what is the "new design for a
> tender"?
Bjorn
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jack&Lois" <jalo@i...> wrote:
http://mims.com/mailb/junebug.htmthat concludes:
"The one weakness of "June Bug", though, is towing. A bow of this
shape is prone to yaw if the forefoot cuts the water, as can happen
in a following sea or if it slews into the quarter wave of the towing
boat. In the next issue we'll show a new design for a tender for
which good towing behavior was emphasized."
The source of the quote was not identified, but it sounds like Phil
Bolger in MAIB. Does anyone know what is the "new design for a
tender"?
Ron, happy to tow a Nymph, but always looking for something even
better.
> From my experience JB does not tow very well. The forward chinesI have a note from the web from December00 with the identification
> have a tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her own. And
> that was just at four knots.
http://mims.com/mailb/junebug.htmthat concludes:
"The one weakness of "June Bug", though, is towing. A bow of this
shape is prone to yaw if the forefoot cuts the water, as can happen
in a following sea or if it slews into the quarter wave of the towing
boat. In the next issue we'll show a new design for a tender for
which good towing behavior was emphasized."
The source of the quote was not identified, but it sounds like Phil
Bolger in MAIB. Does anyone know what is the "new design for a
tender"?
Ron, happy to tow a Nymph, but always looking for something even
better.
I think one of the first boats Dynamite and PCB collaborated on was
designed as a "... triple threat - oars, sail, and power." Thomaston
(?) Galley. It's featured in Payson's "Go Build Your Own Boat" - a
good, informative read.
I'd think it would certainly hold four, avoid the boarding problems
inherent with a dory, and in addition, have the ability to sail.
A tow eye, if mounted low and inline with the pull of the line,
should allow the v-hull to track well at eight or more knots.
Phil & Friends seem to draw an awful lot of cartoons with Bricks
onboard, which seems an implicit endorsement - and the width is
variable for variable expected loads. Harold sells plans for a 38"
beam on the same rocker as the original 48" beam.
While the cartoons obviously only show the Bricks or Tortise on deck,
there are pictures of them being towed - how well, and at what speed,
I have no idea.
Just food for thought.
Gordy
designed as a "... triple threat - oars, sail, and power." Thomaston
(?) Galley. It's featured in Payson's "Go Build Your Own Boat" - a
good, informative read.
I'd think it would certainly hold four, avoid the boarding problems
inherent with a dory, and in addition, have the ability to sail.
A tow eye, if mounted low and inline with the pull of the line,
should allow the v-hull to track well at eight or more knots.
Phil & Friends seem to draw an awful lot of cartoons with Bricks
onboard, which seems an implicit endorsement - and the width is
variable for variable expected loads. Harold sells plans for a 38"
beam on the same rocker as the original 48" beam.
While the cartoons obviously only show the Bricks or Tortise on deck,
there are pictures of them being towed - how well, and at what speed,
I have no idea.
Just food for thought.
Gordy
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
> I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
> to this question.
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Samson
I had a similar experience when I towed her behind my Chebacco, but all
was cured when I attached the painter right at the forefoot. No troubles
after that. Mind you she was a BIG tender for a 19' Chebacco!
Bill
You think she's a big tender for Chebacco, you should see her behind a
Micro! But she did have her advantages. She more than doubled the loungable
deck area when tide along side the Micro on a mooring or at anchor. She also
provided a great space for our dog while we were preparing meals on the
Micro deck. I'm glad to hear the forefoot solution worked. I might give that
a try some time. But I do think the Auray Punt provides better 'optics' when
towed behind a 15'4" boat.
jeb
Jack,
Sorry, but I have to ask... by any chance - did Cap'n Scurvey's Best
Blackjack Rum have anything to do with this double-vision? Could be
the sun, but the symptoms point to rotgut.<G>
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind" -
Humphrey Bogart
***********************
Sorry, but I have to ask... by any chance - did Cap'n Scurvey's Best
Blackjack Rum have anything to do with this double-vision? Could be
the sun, but the symptoms point to rotgut.<G>
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind" -
Humphrey Bogart
***********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "BARBARA SPOERING" <b.spoering@w...> wrote:
> Hi All - I've had an interesting thought but in the back of my
mind I'm sure someone in the Bolger group knows enough to shoot down
my balloon - - -
> I like multihulls and thought of building the "Rubens
Nymph" , but cutting out the extra foot in width from the bottom and
bringing those side edges up to meet the fore and aft seat, effectivly
creating a catamaran type hull. It won't be any lighter but will
have the stability of the Rubens and carrying capacity of the original
Nymph, (I don't need more) might even be a bit easier to row ?????
Any Thoughts
>
> Aloha - Jack - Ft Lauderdale
> Maybe it's the hot sun downn here?
Hi All - I've had an interesting thought but in the back of my mind I'm sure someone in the Bolger group knows enough to shoot down my balloon - - -
I like multihulls and thought of building the "Rubens Nymph" , but cutting out the extra foot in width from the bottom and bringing those side edges up to meet the fore and aft seat, effectivly creating a catamaran type hull. It won't be any lighter but will have the stability of the Rubens and carrying capacity of the original Nymph, (I don't need more) might even be a bit easier to row ????? Any Thoughts
Aloha - Jack - Ft Lauderdale
Maybe it's the hot sun downn here?
I like multihulls and thought of building the "Rubens Nymph" , but cutting out the extra foot in width from the bottom and bringing those side edges up to meet the fore and aft seat, effectivly creating a catamaran type hull. It won't be any lighter but will have the stability of the Rubens and carrying capacity of the original Nymph, (I don't need more) might even be a bit easier to row ????? Any Thoughts
Aloha - Jack - Ft Lauderdale
Maybe it's the hot sun downn here?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Best Dinghy
> The 14' June Bug
I ditto, the June Bug is Bolger's 'tender' of choice.
I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
to this question.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Past experience towing small prams says the Rueben's Nymph should tow
well with the tow point low on the bow transom, especially as it has a skeg.
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
well with the tow point low on the bow transom, especially as it has a skeg.
HJ
Sam Glasscock wrote:
>Thanks for all the suggestions. One criterion I
>neglected to mention was small and light enough to
>pull aboard if required. Applying that to the boats
>suggested, the ones that seem to fit best are the
>Rueben's Nymph and the Sherpa. Has Anybody actually
>towed these designs? How do they do?
>
>--- Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jack&Lois
>>
>> From my experience JB does not tow very well. The
>>forward chines have a
>> tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her
>>own. And that was just at
>> four knots.
>>
>> I had a similar experience when I towed her behind
>>my Chebacco, but all was cured when I attached the
>>painter right at the forefoot. No troubles after
>>that. Mind you she was a BIG tender for a 19'
>>Chebacco!
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been
>>removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
Thanks for all the suggestions. One criterion I
neglected to mention was small and light enough to
pull aboard if required. Applying that to the boats
suggested, the ones that seem to fit best are the
Rueben's Nymph and the Sherpa. Has Anybody actually
towed these designs? How do they do?
--- Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
neglected to mention was small and light enough to
pull aboard if required. Applying that to the boats
suggested, the ones that seem to fit best are the
Rueben's Nymph and the Sherpa. Has Anybody actually
towed these designs? How do they do?
--- Will Samson <willsamson@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack&Lois
>
> From my experience JB does not tow very well. The
> forward chines have a
> tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her
> own. And that was just at
> four knots.
>
> I had a similar experience when I towed her behind
> my Chebacco, but all was cured when I attached the
> painter right at the forefoot. No troubles after
> that. Mind you she was a BIG tender for a 19'
> Chebacco!
>
> Bill
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack&Lois
From my experience JB does not tow very well. The forward chines have a
tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her own. And that was just at
four knots.
I had a similar experience when I towed her behind my Chebacco, but all was cured when I attached the painter right at the forefoot. No troubles after that. Mind you she was a BIG tender for a 19' Chebacco!
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Steve,
I can't promise anything, but maybe later this week I might be in a
position to put up a couple of sketches. I'm off off somewhere else
for a few months (Honiara, if anyone knows where that is) and won't
know whether it will be possible until I get there. Right now it
isn't.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
I can't promise anything, but maybe later this week I might be in a
position to put up a couple of sketches. I'm off off somewhere else
for a few months (Honiara, if anyone knows where that is) and won't
know whether it will be possible until I get there. Right now it
isn't.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> Come on Howard where's your courage???
> Maybe I can build a small version to see how it works.
> Can you draw something so I am sure of what you have in mind?
>
> The best way to find if my idea would work
> > would be to build it -- and I have no intention of going there.
From my experience JB does not tow very well. The forward chines have a
tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her own. And that was just at
four knots. I hate to criticise JB because otherwise she's a brilliant
tender: huge load capacity, uncanny stability, very easy to row, and sails
like a charm. I've had five people in mine under sail and oars. Not the
prettiest sight, but we proved it could be done. A MUCH better towing tender
is the Auray Punt (p.16 BWAOM). It's a truly beautiful punt that tows with
almost zero friction, very easy to get in and out of, is great for dry foot
landings, rows very nicely, even in very rough conditions and carries a
remarkable load for her size. I've had three adults and a large dog in mine
with no anxiety between shore and Micro. Four adults might be pushing her
limits though.
jeb, on the darkening shores of Fundy
tendency to dig in and set a course for JB all her own. And that was just at
four knots. I hate to criticise JB because otherwise she's a brilliant
tender: huge load capacity, uncanny stability, very easy to row, and sails
like a charm. I've had five people in mine under sail and oars. Not the
prettiest sight, but we proved it could be done. A MUCH better towing tender
is the Auray Punt (p.16 BWAOM). It's a truly beautiful punt that tows with
almost zero friction, very easy to get in and out of, is great for dry foot
landings, rows very nicely, even in very rough conditions and carries a
remarkable load for her size. I've had three adults and a large dog in mine
with no anxiety between shore and Micro. Four adults might be pushing her
limits though.
jeb, on the darkening shores of Fundy
Come on Howard where's your courage???
Maybe I can build a small version to see how it works.
Can you draw something so I am sure of what you have in mind?
Steve
The best way to find if my idea would work
Maybe I can build a small version to see how it works.
Can you draw something so I am sure of what you have in mind?
Steve
The best way to find if my idea would work
> would be to build it -- and I have no intention of going there.
>
> Howard
See "Defender" in Small Boats. 11 ft--capable of carrying four in a
"middling seaway" (whatever that might be)--enough stability to get over the
bow--tows easily. Not a good model for a motor--complicated to build. And
proof that PCB can design very pretty boats if he is so inclined.
John T
"middling seaway" (whatever that might be)--enough stability to get over the
bow--tows easily. Not a good model for a motor--complicated to build. And
proof that PCB can design very pretty boats if he is so inclined.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Best Dinghy
> Right you are. I see that she was designed to be rowed some distance
> through rough water to an offshore anchorage, perhaps at first then
> not to be towed. But PCB added a skeg to make her tow straight, then
> went showing off. There's another reference though, somewhere, where
> PCB writes of her being towed at speed in rough conditions,
> challenged, but dry. Does she chew gum then? Does he need a good
> reason?
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
>> > Bolger designed the Light Dories (1to 6?) to satisfy his own need
>> > for a towable tender.
>>
>> I have one. She's wonderful as a recreational rowboat, but she's
>> utterly miserable as a tender -- the slightest shift of weight will
>> put one of the gunwales in the water. Boarding from a float stage or
>> dock is difficult; boarding from another vessel is a feat for an
>> Olympic gymnast.
>>
>> --
>> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 8/26/2005
>
>
My idea was not to have two hull, but just one, with the wheel mounted
on a framework that pivoted to allow steering. Further details in my
earlier posts.
To me this seems mechanically simpler and more efficient than a
generator and two motors. The best way to find if my idea would work
would be to build it -- and I have no intention of going there.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
on a framework that pivoted to allow steering. Further details in my
earlier posts.
To me this seems mechanically simpler and more efficient than a
generator and two motors. The best way to find if my idea would work
would be to build it -- and I have no intention of going there.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
> If you want to make a sternwheeler easyer to turn the easyest andmost
> practical way is to use a split wheel(two narrow ones side by side)
> with independent electric or hydro drive so one can go forward while
> the other is stoped or reversed. Another way to do it is with a bow
> thruster. Eather is easyer then two hulls piveting.
>
> Jon
Right you are. I see that she was designed to be rowed some distance
through rough water to an offshore anchorage, perhaps at first then
not to be towed. But PCB added a skeg to make her tow straight, then
went showing off. There's another reference though, somewhere, where
PCB writes of her being towed at speed in rough conditions,
challenged, but dry. Does she chew gum then? Does he need a good
reason?
Graeme
through rough water to an offshore anchorage, perhaps at first then
not to be towed. But PCB added a skeg to make her tow straight, then
went showing off. There's another reference though, somewhere, where
PCB writes of her being towed at speed in rough conditions,
challenged, but dry. Does she chew gum then? Does he need a good
reason?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > Bolger designed the Light Dories (1to 6?) to satisfy his own need
> > for a towable tender.
>
> I have one. She's wonderful as a recreational rowboat, but she's
> utterly miserable as a tender -- the slightest shift of weight will
> put one of the gunwales in the water. Boarding from a float stage or
> dock is difficult; boarding from another vessel is a feat for an
> Olympic gymnast.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
J Gribbenshttp://hallman.org/bolger/BolgerBio.htmlsays PCB had JB
deck stowed not towed, and Folding Schooner shows a Teal. JB has
decked ends for dry launching from high sides. High initial stability
for handling those experimental dipping lugsails solo, and according
to Payson for hauling heavy moorings. Certainly a workhorse mooring
tender, perhaps she may tow well?
Graeme
deck stowed not towed, and Folding Schooner shows a Teal. JB has
decked ends for dry launching from high sides. High initial stability
for handling those experimental dipping lugsails solo, and according
to Payson for hauling heavy moorings. Certainly a workhorse mooring
tender, perhaps she may tow well?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > The 14' June Bug
>
> I ditto, the June Bug is Bolger's 'tender' of choice.
>
> I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
> to this question.
> Bolger designed the Light Dories (1to 6?) to satisfy his own needI have one. She's wonderful as a recreational rowboat, but she's
> for a towable tender.
utterly miserable as a tender -- the slightest shift of weight will
put one of the gunwales in the water. Boarding from a float stage or
dock is difficult; boarding from another vessel is a feat for an
Olympic gymnast.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Then perhaps remove the daggerboard case and partner, arrange some
more thwarts a deck cover, and tow like a Cartopper. Or, per BWAOM
p27, tandem tow two Cartoppers?
Graeme
more thwarts a deck cover, and tow like a Cartopper. Or, per BWAOM
p27, tandem tow two Cartoppers?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> You can sail her at that speed.
>
> HJ
A couple more
Welsford's "Tender Behind"
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/tenderbehind/index.htm
And Bolger's "Rubens Nymph"
http://www.instantboats.com/rnymph.htm
Both claim 4 passengers but that has to be calm water.
HJ
Welsford's "Tender Behind"
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/tenderbehind/index.htm
And Bolger's "Rubens Nymph"
http://www.instantboats.com/rnymph.htm
Both claim 4 passengers but that has to be calm water.
HJ
You can sail her at that speed.
HJ
graeme19121984 wrote:
HJ
graeme19121984 wrote:
>I meant to ask also, has anyone towed Gypsy at this speed?
>Graeme
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I meant to ask also, has anyone towed Gypsy at this speed?
Graeme
Graeme
Bolger designed the Light Dories (1to 6?) to satisfy his own need
for a towable tender. I'm unsure at what speed he sailed Pointer,
flat out most likely, and rough water was common. Long Dory, or the
Stretched Light Dory 19'6" x 4' ( tack and tape plans from HH
Payson), or its many copies, should in like fashion tow well, still
row adequately with your 4 adults ( have extra seats for the
optional positions shown, with somewhat cramped 'Muscles' working
from #2 or #3), and suffer the small outboard. PCB says it's
possible to mount an outboard, but he won't cooperate in the
process. The outboard placement could be either of the 'well
intentioned', or 'hang it out' heresies.
However, "Sou'Wester", Joe Dobler's 15' 6" x 4' 4" dory design #182
has a trick tombstone transom hatch and mount system (akin to Selway
Fisher's Medway Dobles 12' and 15' and Atkins) for the small
auxilliary outboard (Plans might be available from his son in law [
tjset (at) cox (dot) net ], see the Small Boat Forum dory story
pdf.).
Better might be Dobler's 16' 4" square transomed, Swampscott dory
derived, Utility Skiff redrawn by bolgerphile T F Jones (
http://www.jonesboats.com/dobler16.html). In his book Jones says
Dobler 16 is phenomonally comfortable for up to seven people and
adequate to row. Ask him specificallly about towing at 8 knots.
Japanese Beachcruiser ought to tow at this speed, adapt to meet
your spec'd requirements and a few others. If cruising offshore has
the trawler a liferaft? Incorporate substantial below floor fresh
water fillable tankage, and a small pluggable outboard well etc. You
don't require the sailing rig of any of these, but for JBC
tender/lifeboat it wouldn't be a lot of extra trouble - PCB has said
that these sails can be flat cut, even bed sheets.
Brick is famous for carrying four adults, and a big dog! 875 lbs
waterline, small outboard power, not sparkling under oars. Towing at
8 knots, even covered and empty, Brick may be an unwelcome
diversion, but Flying Cloud Brick or Fast Brick might satisfy.
Others will know.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
for a towable tender. I'm unsure at what speed he sailed Pointer,
flat out most likely, and rough water was common. Long Dory, or the
Stretched Light Dory 19'6" x 4' ( tack and tape plans from HH
Payson), or its many copies, should in like fashion tow well, still
row adequately with your 4 adults ( have extra seats for the
optional positions shown, with somewhat cramped 'Muscles' working
from #2 or #3), and suffer the small outboard. PCB says it's
possible to mount an outboard, but he won't cooperate in the
process. The outboard placement could be either of the 'well
intentioned', or 'hang it out' heresies.
However, "Sou'Wester", Joe Dobler's 15' 6" x 4' 4" dory design #182
has a trick tombstone transom hatch and mount system (akin to Selway
Fisher's Medway Dobles 12' and 15' and Atkins) for the small
auxilliary outboard (Plans might be available from his son in law [
tjset (at) cox (dot) net ], see the Small Boat Forum dory story
pdf.).
Better might be Dobler's 16' 4" square transomed, Swampscott dory
derived, Utility Skiff redrawn by bolgerphile T F Jones (
http://www.jonesboats.com/dobler16.html). In his book Jones says
Dobler 16 is phenomonally comfortable for up to seven people and
adequate to row. Ask him specificallly about towing at 8 knots.
Japanese Beachcruiser ought to tow at this speed, adapt to meet
your spec'd requirements and a few others. If cruising offshore has
the trawler a liferaft? Incorporate substantial below floor fresh
water fillable tankage, and a small pluggable outboard well etc. You
don't require the sailing rig of any of these, but for JBC
tender/lifeboat it wouldn't be a lot of extra trouble - PCB has said
that these sails can be flat cut, even bed sheets.
Brick is famous for carrying four adults, and a big dog! 875 lbs
waterline, small outboard power, not sparkling under oars. Towing at
8 knots, even covered and empty, Brick may be an unwelcome
diversion, but Flying Cloud Brick or Fast Brick might satisfy.
Others will know.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
>
> I would be very interested in any opinions on the best
> dink for the following conditions: to pull behind a
> motor trawler at speeds up to 8 kts, capacity of four
> adults, decent (not sparkling) performance under oars,
> capable of taking very small (2hp?) outboard power,
> easy to build. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
If you want to make a sternwheeler easyer to turn the easyest and most
practical way is to use a split wheel(two narrow ones side by side)
with independent electric or hydro drive so one can go forward while
the other is stoped or reversed. Another way to do it is with a bow
thruster. Eather is easyer then two hulls piveting.
Jon
practical way is to use a split wheel(two narrow ones side by side)
with independent electric or hydro drive so one can go forward while
the other is stoped or reversed. Another way to do it is with a bow
thruster. Eather is easyer then two hulls piveting.
Jon
A bit more complicated and not a Bolger design would be Iain Oughtred's Acorn 10. A 10' 2" x 4' 2" Clinker Plywood Rowing/Sailing dinghy which with minimal or no modification (depending on shaft length) would take a small outboard to about 4 HP. Also she has a sailing rig too. She'd easily accomadate 4 adults, 6 in calm water.
My father built the smaller Acorn dinghy (7'10" x 4'2") and stretched her to
8' 5". for her length she rows very well and has heaps of room.She easily handles 3 adults and all the gear. Sometimes he uses his 3.5 HP outboard on her, which she can handle, but full power is never needed, a 2 hp would be better.
For the 10' version I imagine a 2.5HP 4 stroke Yamaha would be just about ideal.
Dad's 20' Bolger Chebacco "Grebe" used a 2.5HP 2 stroke Mercury for a while when some nice person stole her lovely 2cyl 6HP Mercury! The 2.5 pushed her along well enough when there was no wind.
Don't be put of by the clinker ply construction method as full size patterns for all the molds and planks are included with the plans, so no lofting is required.
You can get the plans for this dinghy from the Woodenboat Shop (www.woodenboat.com) or from Iain Oughtred himself (you'd have to do a web-search to find his address)
Hugo Tyson.
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
to this question.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My father built the smaller Acorn dinghy (7'10" x 4'2") and stretched her to
8' 5". for her length she rows very well and has heaps of room.She easily handles 3 adults and all the gear. Sometimes he uses his 3.5 HP outboard on her, which she can handle, but full power is never needed, a 2 hp would be better.
For the 10' version I imagine a 2.5HP 4 stroke Yamaha would be just about ideal.
Dad's 20' Bolger Chebacco "Grebe" used a 2.5HP 2 stroke Mercury for a while when some nice person stole her lovely 2cyl 6HP Mercury! The 2.5 pushed her along well enough when there was no wind.
Don't be put of by the clinker ply construction method as full size patterns for all the molds and planks are included with the plans, so no lofting is required.
You can get the plans for this dinghy from the Woodenboat Shop (www.woodenboat.com) or from Iain Oughtred himself (you'd have to do a web-search to find his address)
Hugo Tyson.
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> The 14' June BugI ditto, the June Bug is Bolger's 'tender' of choice.
I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
to this question.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Easier thought than done!
Perhaps mounted on the wheel frames just behind the transom.
Steve
Perhaps mounted on the wheel frames just behind the transom.
Steve
> The 14' June BugI ditto, the June Bug is Bolger's 'tender' of choice.
I would be eager to hear the response of both Dynamite, and PCB
to this question.
It's not something I'd considered. I guess the pivoting sternwheel
would be a kind of rather clumsy outboard motor. Following this
analogy, one or more fins fixed to the bottom of the wheel frame could
be useful, although they would also increase draft. They might not be
much use unless they were below the wheel in clear water.
These thought experiments are much easier than doing it in metal and
wood, aren't they?
Howard
y--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
would be a kind of rather clumsy outboard motor. Following this
analogy, one or more fins fixed to the bottom of the wheel frame could
be useful, although they would also increase draft. They might not be
much use unless they were below the wheel in clear water.
These thought experiments are much easier than doing it in metal and
wood, aren't they?
Howard
y--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> Howarda
> I was thinking about the pivot idea and was wondering if you thought
> couple stationary rudder blades would help attached near the rear of
> the wheel
>
> Steve
>
> > Howard
The 14' June Bug's not far off what you're decribing. I've rowed mine with three aboard (one in the bows one in the stern and one in the middle, doing all the work! IIn theory, the bow thwart has rowlocks, too, but the boat's too narrow at that point for them to work well. IF you're prepared to row from the bows, you'd get one passenger in the stern and two side by side on the centre thwart. I've done that once and it can be done - though I'm not crazy about it..
I guess if she was stretched to about 17' an extra rowing thwart could be added and she'd hold 4 in comfort. The additional length would just add to her speed.
The stern would need a small design change to take an OB.
Good luck in your quest!
Bill
I guess if she was stretched to about 17' an extra rowing thwart could be added and she'd hold 4 in comfort. The additional length would just add to her speed.
The stern would need a small design change to take an OB.
Good luck in your quest!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Glasscock
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: [bolger] Best Dinghy
I would be very interested in any opinions on the best
dink for the following conditions: to pull behind a
motor trawler at speeds up to 8 kts, capacity of four
adults, decent (not sparkling) performance under oars,
capable of taking very small (2hp?) outboard power,
easy to build. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
I don't know if Bolger has designed such a craft. Wouldn't be
surprised, given how prolific... and practical he is. Beyond Bolger,
I'd look at John Welsford's "Sherpa", or perhaps "Tender Behind". Good
luck on the search. Picking a boat is always fun.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"The brave man carves out his fortune, and every man is the son of his
own works" - Cervantes
*******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:>
I don't know if Bolger has designed such a craft. Wouldn't be
surprised, given how prolific... and practical he is. Beyond Bolger,
I'd look at John Welsford's "Sherpa", or perhaps "Tender Behind". Good
luck on the search. Picking a boat is always fun.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"The brave man carves out his fortune, and every man is the son of his
own works" - Cervantes
*******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:>
> I would be very interested in any opinions on the best
> dink for the following conditions: to pull behind a
> motor trawler at speeds up to 8 kts, capacity of four
> adults, decent (not sparkling) performance under oars,
> capable of taking very small (2hp?) outboard power,
> easy to build. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sam
I would be very interested in any opinions on the best
dink for the following conditions: to pull behind a
motor trawler at speeds up to 8 kts, capacity of four
adults, decent (not sparkling) performance under oars,
capable of taking very small (2hp?) outboard power,
easy to build. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
dink for the following conditions: to pull behind a
motor trawler at speeds up to 8 kts, capacity of four
adults, decent (not sparkling) performance under oars,
capable of taking very small (2hp?) outboard power,
easy to build. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Howard
I was thinking about the pivot idea and was wondering if you thought a
couple stationary rudder blades would help attached near the rear of
the wheel
Steve
I was thinking about the pivot idea and was wondering if you thought a
couple stationary rudder blades would help attached near the rear of
the wheel
Steve
> Howard
The other part of this story is that the dimmentions given are for a
sternwheeler in the 60-80' range and that monkey rudders when set up
independently can be turned oppiset to slide the sternwheeler
sideways.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
sternwheeler in the 60-80' range and that monkey rudders when set up
independently can be turned oppiset to slide the sternwheeler
sideways.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
> --- "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:drawings
> > I haven't heard of momkey russers. I have seen pictures and
> > of rudders in front of the wheel and mounted on the frame behindthe
> > wheel. Is one more effective than the other?constructed,
>
>http://gemort.wirefire.com/Rudders%20And%20Steering.htm
> seems to be down, so I took it from a chached Google page:
>
> <quote>
> RUDDERS
>
> Rudders are a crucial part of any boat and this certainly holds true
> for sternwheelers. When rudders are properly designed and
> the vessel will handle and maneuver quite well. However, poorlyto
> designed rudders can make a boat not only difficult to operate but
> even make it dangerous.
>
> Propeller driven vessels require only small rudders for two basic
> reasons. One, most of these boats travel at faster speeds than
> sternwheelers and this speed produces adequate force on the rudders
> produce good response. Second, the rudders are located where theprop
> pushes a lot of water directly against them thus producing the forcebe
> necessary for good response.
>
> Slower moving sternwheelers require much larger rudders to produce
> adequate force for suitable handling. Also, since the paddlewheel is
> turning much slower than a propeller, this too necessitates larger
> rudders. Therefore, it's almost impossible to get rudders on a
> sternwheeler too large.
>
> All personal size sternwheel boats will have a hull size which can
> controlled with a compliment of four rudders. Two of these should bebe
> positioned between the wheel and the hull. These will do most of the
> steering when going ahead and backing. A second smaller set should
> positioned behind the wheel to assist maneuvering at slower speeds.against
> They will also swing the stern when the vessel is being parked
> a river bank and there is no forward motion.and
>
> The 'main steering' rudders should be about 10 feet long with the
> front sloped to match the stern rake of the hull. The aft end should
> be cut in a radius to match the paddlewheel with 2 to 3 inches
> clearance. Their height should be based on the size of the vessel
> will vary between 18 and 30 inches. The rudder post should attachat a
> point which divides the surface area so that there is thirty toforty
> percent forward with the remaining aft. The bottom to the ruddersthe
> should be even with the bottom of the hull. The space between the
> rudders shouldn't be less that 4 1/2 to 5 feet or they will block
> flow of water from each other when they are fully turned or 'hardover'.
>the 'mains'
> The rudders aft of the paddlewheel should be in-line with
> and connected to them. Therefore, whatever the mains do, the30
> secondarys do. That's why they are referred to as 'monkey rudders'.
> Get it? "Monkey see, monkey do" Clever, huh? Well, I didn't have
> anything to do with naming them. These 'monkeys' are usually 18 to
> inches high and 30 to 40 inches long with the same split on surfacelike
> area as the mains. They should be mounted a little higher than the
> mains because they need to be in the 'wheel wash' or the roller that
> the paddlewheel makes when it is going ahead.
>
> The normal operating force on any of the rudders is not great,
> however, they and their posts should be built to withstand things
> submerged logs, ice, sandbars and downed jet-skis. Oops, perhaps Iin
> shouldn't have included that last one. Oh well, the point is, make
> them stout!
>
> <unquote>
>
> Means: I stand corrected, the monkey are aft, the main rudders are
> front of the wheel.
>
> Stefan
--- "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
seems to be down, so I took it from a chached Google page:
<quote>
RUDDERS
Rudders are a crucial part of any boat and this certainly holds true
for sternwheelers. When rudders are properly designed and constructed,
the vessel will handle and maneuver quite well. However, poorly
designed rudders can make a boat not only difficult to operate but
even make it dangerous.
Propeller driven vessels require only small rudders for two basic
reasons. One, most of these boats travel at faster speeds than
sternwheelers and this speed produces adequate force on the rudders to
produce good response. Second, the rudders are located where the prop
pushes a lot of water directly against them thus producing the force
necessary for good response.
Slower moving sternwheelers require much larger rudders to produce
adequate force for suitable handling. Also, since the paddlewheel is
turning much slower than a propeller, this too necessitates larger
rudders. Therefore, it's almost impossible to get rudders on a
sternwheeler too large.
All personal size sternwheel boats will have a hull size which can be
controlled with a compliment of four rudders. Two of these should be
positioned between the wheel and the hull. These will do most of the
steering when going ahead and backing. A second smaller set should be
positioned behind the wheel to assist maneuvering at slower speeds.
They will also swing the stern when the vessel is being parked against
a river bank and there is no forward motion.
The 'main steering' rudders should be about 10 feet long with the
front sloped to match the stern rake of the hull. The aft end should
be cut in a radius to match the paddlewheel with 2 to 3 inches
clearance. Their height should be based on the size of the vessel and
will vary between 18 and 30 inches. The rudder post should attach at a
point which divides the surface area so that there is thirty to forty
percent forward with the remaining aft. The bottom to the rudders
should be even with the bottom of the hull. The space between the
rudders shouldn't be less that 4 1/2 to 5 feet or they will block the
flow of water from each other when they are fully turned or 'hard over'.
The rudders aft of the paddlewheel should be in-line with the 'mains'
and connected to them. Therefore, whatever the mains do, the
secondarys do. That's why they are referred to as 'monkey rudders'.
Get it? "Monkey see, monkey do" Clever, huh? Well, I didn't have
anything to do with naming them. These 'monkeys' are usually 18 to 30
inches high and 30 to 40 inches long with the same split on surface
area as the mains. They should be mounted a little higher than the
mains because they need to be in the 'wheel wash' or the roller that
the paddlewheel makes when it is going ahead.
The normal operating force on any of the rudders is not great,
however, they and their posts should be built to withstand things like
submerged logs, ice, sandbars and downed jet-skis. Oops, perhaps I
shouldn't have included that last one. Oh well, the point is, make
them stout!
<unquote>
Means: I stand corrected, the monkey are aft, the main rudders are in
front of the wheel.
Stefan
> I haven't heard of momkey russers. I have seen pictures and drawingshttp://gemort.wirefire.com/Rudders%20And%20Steering.htm
> of rudders in front of the wheel and mounted on the frame behind the
> wheel. Is one more effective than the other?
seems to be down, so I took it from a chached Google page:
<quote>
RUDDERS
Rudders are a crucial part of any boat and this certainly holds true
for sternwheelers. When rudders are properly designed and constructed,
the vessel will handle and maneuver quite well. However, poorly
designed rudders can make a boat not only difficult to operate but
even make it dangerous.
Propeller driven vessels require only small rudders for two basic
reasons. One, most of these boats travel at faster speeds than
sternwheelers and this speed produces adequate force on the rudders to
produce good response. Second, the rudders are located where the prop
pushes a lot of water directly against them thus producing the force
necessary for good response.
Slower moving sternwheelers require much larger rudders to produce
adequate force for suitable handling. Also, since the paddlewheel is
turning much slower than a propeller, this too necessitates larger
rudders. Therefore, it's almost impossible to get rudders on a
sternwheeler too large.
All personal size sternwheel boats will have a hull size which can be
controlled with a compliment of four rudders. Two of these should be
positioned between the wheel and the hull. These will do most of the
steering when going ahead and backing. A second smaller set should be
positioned behind the wheel to assist maneuvering at slower speeds.
They will also swing the stern when the vessel is being parked against
a river bank and there is no forward motion.
The 'main steering' rudders should be about 10 feet long with the
front sloped to match the stern rake of the hull. The aft end should
be cut in a radius to match the paddlewheel with 2 to 3 inches
clearance. Their height should be based on the size of the vessel and
will vary between 18 and 30 inches. The rudder post should attach at a
point which divides the surface area so that there is thirty to forty
percent forward with the remaining aft. The bottom to the rudders
should be even with the bottom of the hull. The space between the
rudders shouldn't be less that 4 1/2 to 5 feet or they will block the
flow of water from each other when they are fully turned or 'hard over'.
The rudders aft of the paddlewheel should be in-line with the 'mains'
and connected to them. Therefore, whatever the mains do, the
secondarys do. That's why they are referred to as 'monkey rudders'.
Get it? "Monkey see, monkey do" Clever, huh? Well, I didn't have
anything to do with naming them. These 'monkeys' are usually 18 to 30
inches high and 30 to 40 inches long with the same split on surface
area as the mains. They should be mounted a little higher than the
mains because they need to be in the 'wheel wash' or the roller that
the paddlewheel makes when it is going ahead.
The normal operating force on any of the rudders is not great,
however, they and their posts should be built to withstand things like
submerged logs, ice, sandbars and downed jet-skis. Oops, perhaps I
shouldn't have included that last one. Oh well, the point is, make
them stout!
<unquote>
Means: I stand corrected, the monkey are aft, the main rudders are in
front of the wheel.
Stefan
Yes that was what I was trying to describe. The wheel would be on a
frame or platform that would extend forward to a pivot that would
allow the wheel to swing horizontally. My guess was that the
horizontal distance between the axle of the wheel and the pivot would
be about the same as the width of the wheel or, say, the beam of the
boat.
That, combined with a rounded stern, should give enough swing to port
and starboard. I don't think the steering force required would be very
great. On a small boat a tiller would do it. One person can easily
steer those long-tail boats.
Also, I was suggesting the motor could be mounted on a forward
extension of the frame. This would counterbalance the weight of the
wheel (or the difference between its weight and its buoyancy), thus
taking strain off the pivot, and simplify the drive-train.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
frame or platform that would extend forward to a pivot that would
allow the wheel to swing horizontally. My guess was that the
horizontal distance between the axle of the wheel and the pivot would
be about the same as the width of the wheel or, say, the beam of the
boat.
That, combined with a rounded stern, should give enough swing to port
and starboard. I don't think the steering force required would be very
great. On a small boat a tiller would do it. One person can easily
steer those long-tail boats.
Also, I was suggesting the motor could be mounted on a forward
extension of the frame. This would counterbalance the weight of the
wheel (or the difference between its weight and its buoyancy), thus
taking strain off the pivot, and simplify the drive-train.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> Howardbut
> That's an interesting concept. It would allow nothing in the water
> the wheel. Perhaps the powertrain could be on the same platform asthe
> wheel assembly and pivot that way. I wonder how far the pivot range
> would have to be to give good steering control.
I just looked at the drawing for Bolger's Fast Sternwheeler and there
look to be 3 rudders behind the wheel. In his Toy Riverboat the
rudders (2) are behind the wheels (sidewheeler).
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
look to be 3 rudders behind the wheel. In his Toy Riverboat the
rudders (2) are behind the wheels (sidewheeler).
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
> The mains are in front of the wheel and the monkeys aft and ruddersare
> usaly 2 or 3 across as well main and monkeys on independent controles.
>
> Jon
I haven't heard of momkey russers. I have seen pictures and drawings
of rudders in front of the wheel and mounted on the frame behind the
wheel. Is one more effective than the other?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
of rudders in front of the wheel and mounted on the frame behind the
wheel. Is one more effective than the other?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
> --- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> > But I was thinking that the
> > usual aft rudder would quite likely not work very well
>
> Sternwheelers have often, in addition to the main rudders aft, small
> rudders in front of the wheel, called "monkey rudders" (or something
> like that). One purpose is to get a reasonable steering behaviour when
> going backwards.
>
> Stefan
Howard
That's an interesting concept. It would allow nothing in the water but
the wheel. Perhaps the powertrain could be on the same platform as the
wheel assembly and pivot that way. I wonder how far the pivot range
would have to be to give good steering control.
Steve
That's an interesting concept. It would allow nothing in the water but
the wheel. Perhaps the powertrain could be on the same platform as the
wheel assembly and pivot that way. I wonder how far the pivot range
would have to be to give good steering control.
Steve
> in two halves. The vehicle is steered by a couple of hydraulic rams
> that kind of bend the chassis around a central pivot point.
>
> Howard
The mains are in front of the wheel and the monkeys aft and rudders are
usaly 2 or 3 across as well main and monkeys on independent controles.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
usaly 2 or 3 across as well main and monkeys on independent controles.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
> --- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> > But I was thinking that the
> > usual aft rudder would quite likely not work very well
>
> Sternwheelers have often, in addition to the main rudders aft, small
> rudders in front of the wheel, called "monkey rudders" (or something
> like that). One purpose is to get a reasonable steering behaviour when
> going backwards.
>
> Stefan
--- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
rudders in front of the wheel, called "monkey rudders" (or something
like that). One purpose is to get a reasonable steering behaviour when
going backwards.
Stefan
> But I was thinking that theSternwheelers have often, in addition to the main rudders aft, small
> usual aft rudder would quite likely not work very well
rudders in front of the wheel, called "monkey rudders" (or something
like that). One purpose is to get a reasonable steering behaviour when
going backwards.
Stefan
Yes, that's certainly a disadvantage. But I was thinking that the
usual aft rudder would quite likely not work very well, because of
the large lateral resistance aft caused by the immersed paddle
blades, particularly on a hull without a deep forefoot like this
one. I suppose it could be built so it would retract into a case
when beaching.
It occurred to me a long time ago that the logical arrangement would
be a stern wheel on a framework that pivots laterally around a point
forward of the wheel about the same distance as the width of the
wheel. This would work like the steering arrangement on heavy four-
wheel earthmoving machinery and mobile cranes, where the chassis is
in two halves. The vehicle is steered by a couple of hydraulic rams
that kind of bend the chassis around a central pivot point.
Such an arrangement would have its own mechanical problems to solve,
particularly with the drivetrain. Maybe the engine could be mounted
on a forward extension of the framework. This would in a way be
similar to East Asian long-tail drives, which seem to work well
using quite large diesel engines. See:
http://www.jpbutler.com/thailand/images/longtail.jpg
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
usual aft rudder would quite likely not work very well, because of
the large lateral resistance aft caused by the immersed paddle
blades, particularly on a hull without a deep forefoot like this
one. I suppose it could be built so it would retract into a case
when beaching.
It occurred to me a long time ago that the logical arrangement would
be a stern wheel on a framework that pivots laterally around a point
forward of the wheel about the same distance as the width of the
wheel. This would work like the steering arrangement on heavy four-
wheel earthmoving machinery and mobile cranes, where the chassis is
in two halves. The vehicle is steered by a couple of hydraulic rams
that kind of bend the chassis around a central pivot point.
Such an arrangement would have its own mechanical problems to solve,
particularly with the drivetrain. Maybe the engine could be mounted
on a forward extension of the framework. This would in a way be
similar to East Asian long-tail drives, which seem to work well
using quite large diesel engines. See:
http://www.jpbutler.com/thailand/images/longtail.jpg
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> I don't like the forward rudder at all. I would want to beach the
> girl sometimes, wouldn't you?
I don't like the forward rudder at all. I would want to beach the
girl sometimes, wouldn't you?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
girl sometimes, wouldn't you?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
> Rudder is not protected and nowhere enough freeboard for the windchop
> on the Columbia River in the NW USA
>
> Jon
>
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > The Showboat url is:
> >http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/showboat.htm
As I mentioned earlier it is really too small as is. Freeboard must
be raised. It is designed for pedal power if you look closely. The
overall layout is good I think if it was 20 feet long and 8 feet
wide, a taller cabin and mechanical power. I didn't get a response
up thread about the size of the powerplant. Any help?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
be raised. It is designed for pedal power if you look closely. The
overall layout is good I think if it was 20 feet long and 8 feet
wide, a taller cabin and mechanical power. I didn't get a response
up thread about the size of the powerplant. Any help?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
> Rudder is not protected and nowhere enough freeboard for the windchop
> on the Columbia River in the NW USA<mainesal5@y...>
>
> Jon
>
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette"
> > wrote:
> > > The Showboat url is:
> >http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/showboat.htm
Rudder is not protected and nowhere enough freeboard for the wind chop
on the Columbia River in the NW USA
Jon
on the Columbia River in the NW USA
Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
> wrote:
> > The Showboat url is:
>http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/showboat.htm
It uses a bow rudder, which would seem to make sense in a sternwheeler
with a scow bow. But I can't work out how it floats on its lines,
given that there seems to be more buoyancy forward than aft,
the "engine" and drive gear are well aft and the wheel is cantilevered
out past the stern. Maybe there's meant to be a few bags of sand
sitting on the foredeck.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
with a scow bow. But I can't work out how it floats on its lines,
given that there seems to be more buoyancy forward than aft,
the "engine" and drive gear are well aft and the wheel is cantilevered
out past the stern. Maybe there's meant to be a few bags of sand
sitting on the foredeck.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bosquette" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> The Showboat url is:http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/showboat.htm
Thanks Bruce
I have the book and am familiar with the design. The side wheel
doesn't interest me though. It is one of Bolgers more clever and well
thought out designs.
Steve
I have the book and am familiar with the design. The side wheel
doesn't interest me though. It is one of Bolgers more clever and well
thought out designs.
Steve
> Bruce
The Showboat url is:http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/showboat.htm
Steve
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "James Greene" <jg6892@g...> wrote:
> What is the URL?
>
> James Greene
>
>
> >I like the looks
> >of "Showboat" on Dave Gray's H R Solutions site.
<snip>
research on this elsewhere. I just recently acquired a copy of
the "Folding Schooner". (thanks Rollin!) I was leafing through it in
the meditation chamber this morning, and lo and behold, on page 43, a
20.5'x8' "Toy Riverboat" sidewheeler; the original engine a 22 hp
diesel, changed over to electric. designed to carry 6 people. The
original concept was to use a volkswagon differential with the brakes
since you could stop a wheel for turning. Neat concept and a clever
design.
uses two hulls joined together (sound familiar?)the wide front one and
a narrower rear hull to allow for a wheel on each side.
Bruce
> American Sternwheel Association has good links for wheel dimensionsis
> and rudder area. I'm thinking of doing a 20 ft hull 8 ft wide. so I
> can experiment with the wheel and drivetrain. I like the looks
> of "Showboat" on Dave Gray's H R Solutions site. The hull on that
> 14.5 ft long and 6.25 ft wide. A little small for me althoughreally
> cute and well designed. I want to expand it to the above dimensionsI don't mean to confuse the issue since you have been doing so much
> so I can carry 4 to 6 folks with me and not be too cramped. Do you
> guys think a shaft mc motor set up or a tractor would be the right
> setup?
>
> Thanks
> Steve
research on this elsewhere. I just recently acquired a copy of
the "Folding Schooner". (thanks Rollin!) I was leafing through it in
the meditation chamber this morning, and lo and behold, on page 43, a
20.5'x8' "Toy Riverboat" sidewheeler; the original engine a 22 hp
diesel, changed over to electric. designed to carry 6 people. The
original concept was to use a volkswagon differential with the brakes
since you could stop a wheel for turning. Neat concept and a clever
design.
uses two hulls joined together (sound familiar?)the wide front one and
a narrower rear hull to allow for a wheel on each side.
Bruce
What is the URL?
James Greene
James Greene
>I like the looks
>of "Showboat" on Dave Gray's H R Solutions site.
According to the following link, it does work (ie., lawn tractor
transmission) and is commonly used by folks building small
sternwheelers.
<http://www2.cemr.wvu.edu/~venable/asa/>
---
Bob
transmission) and is commonly used by folks building small
sternwheelers.
<http://www2.cemr.wvu.edu/~venable/asa/>
---
Bob
Much helpful info! I have a sort of in to the tractor area in that my
son-in-law has a lawn care business. He can give me first hand info
on machines that get very hard treatment, I'll talk with him and
report back.
This seems like a very good powerplant and transmission setup for
sternwheeler. I'm thinking the boat will be a scow type hull flairing
up in the stern to give the wheel a good amount of water to move. The
American Sternwheel Association has good links for wheel dimensions
and rudder area. I'm thinking of doing a 20 ft hull 8 ft wide. so I
can experiment with the wheel and drivetrain. I like the looks
of "Showboat" on Dave Gray's H R Solutions site. The hull on that is
14.5 ft long and 6.25 ft wide. A little small for me although really
cute and well designed. I want to expand it to the above dimensions
so I can carry 4 to 6 folks with me and not be too cramped. Do you
guys think a shaft mc motor set up or a tractor would be the right
setup?
Thanks
Steve
son-in-law has a lawn care business. He can give me first hand info
on machines that get very hard treatment, I'll talk with him and
report back.
This seems like a very good powerplant and transmission setup for
sternwheeler. I'm thinking the boat will be a scow type hull flairing
up in the stern to give the wheel a good amount of water to move. The
American Sternwheel Association has good links for wheel dimensions
and rudder area. I'm thinking of doing a 20 ft hull 8 ft wide. so I
can experiment with the wheel and drivetrain. I like the looks
of "Showboat" on Dave Gray's H R Solutions site. The hull on that is
14.5 ft long and 6.25 ft wide. A little small for me although really
cute and well designed. I want to expand it to the above dimensions
so I can carry 4 to 6 folks with me and not be too cramped. Do you
guys think a shaft mc motor set up or a tractor would be the right
setup?
Thanks
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...> wrote:
running gear would be reasonable. I cut my grass with a 30 year old
Gilson, 14hp B&S. The engines need service work long before the
transmissions. Marine duty will be cleaner in terms of dirt/dust
getting in the engine, and a toy like the boat proposed is not going
to roll up hundreds/thousands of operating hours per year. Storing
the engine well in the off season will greatly extend its life.
One messy part of the project would be disassembly of the transaxle
from something like an early 90's MTD. The axle is "permanently"
lubricated, intended to NEVER be serviced over its life. The grease
is black, and sticks to every thing, probably loaded with lithium.
Once accessible, one must weld the differential to lock it, clean the
slag out, and reassemble with more of the sticky black grease.
> Acording to the people at Hydrogear the transaxles would not hold up.I disagree w' the Hydrogear people. I believe the life of the L&G
> Part of the HP on a tractor is for other things like turning mower
> blades if used full time on just the drive at what the tractor is
> rated they wear out fast.
running gear would be reasonable. I cut my grass with a 30 year old
Gilson, 14hp B&S. The engines need service work long before the
transmissions. Marine duty will be cleaner in terms of dirt/dust
getting in the engine, and a toy like the boat proposed is not going
to roll up hundreds/thousands of operating hours per year. Storing
the engine well in the off season will greatly extend its life.
One messy part of the project would be disassembly of the transaxle
from something like an early 90's MTD. The axle is "permanently"
lubricated, intended to NEVER be serviced over its life. The grease
is black, and sticks to every thing, probably loaded with lithium.
Once accessible, one must weld the differential to lock it, clean the
slag out, and reassemble with more of the sticky black grease.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...>
wrote:
From an industrial usage standpoint they might be right, but
relative to normal usage on a boat, much less a paddlewheel driven
by a belt to a chain (maybe?) or belt to belt system, they should be
more than adequate over a couple of years. I'm thinking that 300
hours is the equivalent of 37.5 days at 8 hours (continuous running)
a day. Most people wouldn't use their boats that much over a
couple/three or more years. (just look at the boat ads in your local
trader magazine). Most of us don't get that much vacation time a
year. If I was looking for a retirement project then I might think
stronger.
As far a strong enough, depends on the size of the boat. May not
try a lawn tractor on a larger, 2000lb or up boat but the Becky
Thatcher is designed to be driven with leg power. Running at a
comfortable rpm for boat and motor, 4cycle engines of that type are
rated for thousands of hours continuous usage. As far as the trans-
axle lasting, there are a lot of old lawn tractors out there and can
be easily replaced if your unit starts to act up. Stepping up
to "garden tractor" increases the money a little but now you are in
light industrial use machinery. Probably last a long time once you
prove your premise that the equipment can be used.
More industrial/heavy duty tractor assemblies can be found looking
in various trade rags or just checking the local paper if you live
near an agricultural area. Somehow I gotta think that a John Deere,
Ford, Kubota, etc. unit is going to last a really long time under a
lot worse use than you could throw at it just driving a belt. Parts
are readily available, and (usually) reasonably priced. Bit more
money, probably drive a LOT more boat if that was your purpose.
Bruce
wrote:
> Acording to the people at Hydrogear the transaxles would not holdup.
> Part of the HP on a tractor is for other things like turning mower<snip>
> blades if used full time on just the drive at what the tractor is
> rated they wear out fast.
From an industrial usage standpoint they might be right, but
relative to normal usage on a boat, much less a paddlewheel driven
by a belt to a chain (maybe?) or belt to belt system, they should be
more than adequate over a couple of years. I'm thinking that 300
hours is the equivalent of 37.5 days at 8 hours (continuous running)
a day. Most people wouldn't use their boats that much over a
couple/three or more years. (just look at the boat ads in your local
trader magazine). Most of us don't get that much vacation time a
year. If I was looking for a retirement project then I might think
stronger.
As far a strong enough, depends on the size of the boat. May not
try a lawn tractor on a larger, 2000lb or up boat but the Becky
Thatcher is designed to be driven with leg power. Running at a
comfortable rpm for boat and motor, 4cycle engines of that type are
rated for thousands of hours continuous usage. As far as the trans-
axle lasting, there are a lot of old lawn tractors out there and can
be easily replaced if your unit starts to act up. Stepping up
to "garden tractor" increases the money a little but now you are in
light industrial use machinery. Probably last a long time once you
prove your premise that the equipment can be used.
More industrial/heavy duty tractor assemblies can be found looking
in various trade rags or just checking the local paper if you live
near an agricultural area. Somehow I gotta think that a John Deere,
Ford, Kubota, etc. unit is going to last a really long time under a
lot worse use than you could throw at it just driving a belt. Parts
are readily available, and (usually) reasonably priced. Bit more
money, probably drive a LOT more boat if that was your purpose.
Bruce
Acording to the people at Hydrogear the transaxles would not hold up.
Part of the HP on a tractor is for other things like turning mower
blades if used full time on just the drive at what the tractor is
rated they wear out fast. Larger hydro pumps and larger wheelmoters
would work better. As with motor cycles od any system there needs to
be a stage with belts to take the shock of wheel surge or vibration
even in high speed wheels such as in the masters plans. A thought
sould be considered as to weather the wheel would go to fast for the
water to replace what is removed refered to as digging a hole in the
water and if end plates on the buckets would reduce slipage.
Jon
Part of the HP on a tractor is for other things like turning mower
blades if used full time on just the drive at what the tractor is
rated they wear out fast. Larger hydro pumps and larger wheelmoters
would work better. As with motor cycles od any system there needs to
be a stage with belts to take the shock of wheel surge or vibration
even in high speed wheels such as in the masters plans. A thought
sould be considered as to weather the wheel would go to fast for the
water to replace what is removed refered to as digging a hole in the
water and if end plates on the buckets would reduce slipage.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Coho" <abcoho@v...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
> wrote:
> > Of course, how stupid of me!
> >
> > Steve
> > > The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
>
> I'm curious why no one has mentioned using Lawn tractor parts. You
> can pick up a 12 HP engine and transaxle with a reverse for around
> $150.(of course you would have to spend a few hours disassembling
> the tractor they are attached to. A rebuilt engine starts around
> $200 (less if you just buy the parts and do it yourself), New at
Pep
> Boys about $300.
>
> When I first saw the MAIB article on the "Thatcher" chain drive
unit
> I immediately thought about a small lawn tractor unit mounted above
> the paddle wheel behind the cabin. The only thing that would need
> some serious tinkering would be the linkage for the brake/clutch
and
> the actual gear shift. This would be kind of neat since you could
> slow or stop your wheel as well as 3 to 6 gears forward and reverse
> with neutral.
>
> Run the engine through a motorcycle or even a car muffler and you
> have a pretty quiet drive unit.
>
> Doesn't seem to be a far stretch to put that into a paddle wheel
boat
>
> Bruce
Paul
That's an interesting design, how about some details?
Steve
That's an interesting design, how about some details?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> Uploaded a concept drawing I did - to Bolger5 photo section.
>
> Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
> Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
> North East MD
> www.captnpauley.com
> pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Uploaded a concept drawing I did - to Bolger5 photo section.
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
And the gear choice makes it less important for you to get the engine
HP/paddle size exactly right. Nice thought.
HJ
Bruce Coho wrote:
HP/paddle size exactly right. Nice thought.
HJ
Bruce Coho wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Of course, how stupid of me!
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>>The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
>>>
>>>
>
>I'm curious why no one has mentioned using Lawn tractor parts. You
>can pick up a 12 HP engine and transaxle with a reverse for around
>$150.(of course you would have to spend a few hours disassembling
>the tractor they are attached to. A rebuilt engine starts around
>$200 (less if you just buy the parts and do it yourself), New at Pep
>Boys about $300.
>
>When I first saw the MAIB article on the "Thatcher" chain drive unit
>I immediately thought about a small lawn tractor unit mounted above
>the paddle wheel behind the cabin. The only thing that would need
>some serious tinkering would be the linkage for the brake/clutch and
>the actual gear shift. This would be kind of neat since you could
>slow or stop your wheel as well as 3 to 6 gears forward and reverse
>with neutral.
>
>Run the engine through a motorcycle or even a car muffler and you
>have a pretty quiet drive unit.
>
>Doesn't seem to be a far stretch to put that into a paddle wheel boat
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I was wondering about tha as well. Do you think they lawnmower
stuff would be strong enough?
Steve
stuff would be strong enough?
Steve
> I'm curious why no one has mentioned using Lawn tractor parts.You
> can pick up a 12 HP engine and transaxle with a reverse for aroundPep
> $150.(of course you would have to spend a few hours disassembling
> the tractor they are attached to. A rebuilt engine starts around
> $200 (less if you just buy the parts and do it yourself), New at
> Boys about $300.unit
>
> When I first saw the MAIB article on the "Thatcher" chain drive
> I immediately thought about a small lawn tractor unit mountedabove
> the paddle wheel behind the cabin. The only thing that would needand
> some serious tinkering would be the linkage for the brake/clutch
> the actual gear shift. This would be kind of neat since you couldreverse
> slow or stop your wheel as well as 3 to 6 gears forward and
> with neutral.boat
>
> Run the engine through a motorcycle or even a car muffler and you
> have a pretty quiet drive unit.
>
> Doesn't seem to be a far stretch to put that into a paddle wheel
>
> Bruce
That would simplyfy things a lots. Sounds like a good solution!
Steve
Steve
> You don't neet to mount the engine sideways, the wheel of the bikehas a
> 90 degree power translation (crown and pinion?), just use that to
> transfer to your paddle wheel.
>
> Chris
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
You know, I was just thinking. a proof of concept would be a piece
of cake. Just build a stretched Brick or more likely something like
a stretched PDRacer, bolt a lawn tractor to it, take the tire off
one of the wheels, and run a belt to a paddle wheel assembly of your
choice. If you are really clever, hook the rudder up to the front
steering assembly.
Be wet and noisy, but probably a blast to run around in. If you are
interested in a side-wheeler, might be able to work something out by
disabling the differential and driving both wheels
Bruce
wrote:
> Of course, how stupid of me!RE Lawn tractor parts;
>
> Steve
> > The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
You know, I was just thinking. a proof of concept would be a piece
of cake. Just build a stretched Brick or more likely something like
a stretched PDRacer, bolt a lawn tractor to it, take the tire off
one of the wheels, and run a belt to a paddle wheel assembly of your
choice. If you are really clever, hook the rudder up to the front
steering assembly.
Be wet and noisy, but probably a blast to run around in. If you are
interested in a side-wheeler, might be able to work something out by
disabling the differential and driving both wheels
Bruce
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
can pick up a 12 HP engine and transaxle with a reverse for around
$150.(of course you would have to spend a few hours disassembling
the tractor they are attached to. A rebuilt engine starts around
$200 (less if you just buy the parts and do it yourself), New at Pep
Boys about $300.
When I first saw the MAIB article on the "Thatcher" chain drive unit
I immediately thought about a small lawn tractor unit mounted above
the paddle wheel behind the cabin. The only thing that would need
some serious tinkering would be the linkage for the brake/clutch and
the actual gear shift. This would be kind of neat since you could
slow or stop your wheel as well as 3 to 6 gears forward and reverse
with neutral.
Run the engine through a motorcycle or even a car muffler and you
have a pretty quiet drive unit.
Doesn't seem to be a far stretch to put that into a paddle wheel boat
Bruce
wrote:
> Of course, how stupid of me!I'm curious why no one has mentioned using Lawn tractor parts. You
>
> Steve
> > The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
can pick up a 12 HP engine and transaxle with a reverse for around
$150.(of course you would have to spend a few hours disassembling
the tractor they are attached to. A rebuilt engine starts around
$200 (less if you just buy the parts and do it yourself), New at Pep
Boys about $300.
When I first saw the MAIB article on the "Thatcher" chain drive unit
I immediately thought about a small lawn tractor unit mounted above
the paddle wheel behind the cabin. The only thing that would need
some serious tinkering would be the linkage for the brake/clutch and
the actual gear shift. This would be kind of neat since you could
slow or stop your wheel as well as 3 to 6 gears forward and reverse
with neutral.
Run the engine through a motorcycle or even a car muffler and you
have a pretty quiet drive unit.
Doesn't seem to be a far stretch to put that into a paddle wheel boat
Bruce
Steve Bosquette wrote:
90 degree power translation (crown and pinion?), just use that to
transfer to your paddle wheel.
Chris
> Thanks Chris I wasn't aware of that. That would seem like a good...
> possibility then for a powerplant! A clutch already built in, mount
> the engine sidewise. What would you do at the shaft end to make the
> last stage to the wheel?
>>But quite a few of the shaft-drive bikes do. Especially the bigYou don't neet to mount the engine sideways, the wheel of the bike has a
>> cruisers.
90 degree power translation (crown and pinion?), just use that to
transfer to your paddle wheel.
Chris
Thanks Chris I wasn't aware of that. That would seem like a good
possibility then for a powerplant! A clutch already built in, mount
the engine sidewise. What would you do at the shaft end to make the
last stage to the wheel?
Steve
possibility then for a powerplant! A clutch already built in, mount
the engine sidewise. What would you do at the shaft end to make the
last stage to the wheel?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lasdauskas <cml@t...> wrote:
>
>
> STEVE BOSQUETTE wrote:
>
> > Of course, how stupid of me!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >>The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
>
> But quite a few of the shaft-drive bikes do. Especially the big
cruisers.
>
> Chris
STEVE BOSQUETTE wrote:
Chris
> Of course, how stupid of me!But quite a few of the shaft-drive bikes do. Especially the big cruisers.
>
> Steve
>
>>The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
Chris
I agree, to me there is a really good feeling in not having something
that everyone else has, a conventional boat. It is why I have been a
Bolger fan for years. When I had my Sneakeasy she turned lots of
heads. One time I was idling down Portland(Maine.) harbor and a 60
foot 3 story boat went by me going the opposite direction, a few
minutes later I sensed a boat coming up behind me, it was the same
boat with 5 people all with cameras taking pictures of my boat. A
little ego caress is ok sometimes!
Thus having a sternwheeler is very attractive for the reasons Stefan
points out. Easy to build, no; fun to build and own, you betchya!
Steve Bosquette
that everyone else has, a conventional boat. It is why I have been a
Bolger fan for years. When I had my Sneakeasy she turned lots of
heads. One time I was idling down Portland(Maine.) harbor and a 60
foot 3 story boat went by me going the opposite direction, a few
minutes later I sensed a boat coming up behind me, it was the same
boat with 5 people all with cameras taking pictures of my boat. A
little ego caress is ok sometimes!
Thus having a sternwheeler is very attractive for the reasons Stefan
points out. Easy to build, no; fun to build and own, you betchya!
Steve Bosquette
Of course, how stupid of me!
Steve
Steve
> The VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
The big motor and prop may be a lot faster but on the other end a
sternwheeler will go further with more room and comfort when built
right. There are 60'X14'X1'draft deasel electric sternwheelers that
run on a 20HPDC doing 7 to 10 knots on very little fual and the room
of a small house with all the creacher feachers as well as
enviromentaly friendlyer. It is also the easy to find in the harbor.
Room on the deck for jet skies if you need something to make lots of
noise and water ski behind.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
sternwheeler will go further with more room and comfort when built
right. There are 60'X14'X1'draft deasel electric sternwheelers that
run on a 20HPDC doing 7 to 10 knots on very little fual and the room
of a small house with all the creacher feachers as well as
enviromentaly friendlyer. It is also the easy to find in the harbor.
Room on the deck for jet skies if you need something to make lots of
noise and water ski behind.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> It's just so complicated compared with putting an outboard engineon
> a hull or even, I suspect, using an inbopard engine with a screwwhy
> propellor. To me it's a salutory reminder of some of the reasons
> paddleboats very quickly lost out to screw-driven designs.a
>
> Also, in this particular example, it gives the appearance of the
> tail wagging the dog, with a huge heavy stern-wheel and associated
> machinery that seem to be threatening to sink the boat, as well as
> requiring someone sitting way forward to counterbalance the weight.
>
> OTOH there are no doubt many reasons to try it e.g. just the fun of
> trying something new, the romance associated with paddleboats, the
> shallow-water advantage and possibly because it could be a low-tech
> solution that amateurs might find easier.>
> I'm not completely immune to the charm of paddle-steamers. See:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/howardstephenson/Echuca1.html
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch"
> <woodcraftssuch@y...> wrote:
> > > Those photos provide plenty of reasons for not trying to build
> > > sternwheeler
>
> > What do you mean?
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
- cheap, easily available and repairable
- speed in suitable range
- no need to change direction of shaft (already horizontal)
If you don't mind funny looks:
Drive your paddle wheel not with a chain, but mount a drum onto the
same axle. Mount the back wheel of your motorbike in such a way that
it drives on that drum (i.e. like the drum would be the road). Press
the back wheel with a spring against the drum. If you want reverse,
you just press a small intermediate hard rubber roll between the back
wheel and the drum. That intermediate roll will reverse the direction
to the drum.
If you don't like the drum at the paddle wheel, you can have it
somewhere else and connect the drum to the paddle wheel with a chain.
Have fun,
Stefan
> I never considered a motorcycle drive unit for several reasons,advantages:
- cheap, easily available and repairable
- speed in suitable range
- no need to change direction of shaft (already horizontal)
> but the biggie is the need for shock reduction,Why would you need another shock reduction, if you have a clutch?
> And reverse will be necessary ...Make your own reverse gear.
If you don't mind funny looks:
Drive your paddle wheel not with a chain, but mount a drum onto the
same axle. Mount the back wheel of your motorbike in such a way that
it drives on that drum (i.e. like the drum would be the road). Press
the back wheel with a spring against the drum. If you want reverse,
you just press a small intermediate hard rubber roll between the back
wheel and the drum. That intermediate roll will reverse the direction
to the drum.
If you don't like the drum at the paddle wheel, you can have it
somewhere else and connect the drum to the paddle wheel with a chain.
Have fun,
Stefan
--- "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
No need for any special marine hardware.
No propellor, no stuffing box. No special engine. A cheap motorbike
engine with a long chain that drives the wheel. Nothing can be simpler.
True, props are more efficient, if ... you have the right prop for the
right engine at the right load/speed. If the selection of props is
limited, then a paddle wheel might be as efficient.
Stefan
> OTOH there are no doubt many reasons to try it e.g. ...That was why I was contemplating a paddle wheel:
> possibly because it could be a low-tech solution that amateurs
> might find easier.
No need for any special marine hardware.
No propellor, no stuffing box. No special engine. A cheap motorbike
engine with a long chain that drives the wheel. Nothing can be simpler.
True, props are more efficient, if ... you have the right prop for the
right engine at the right load/speed. If the selection of props is
limited, then a paddle wheel might be as efficient.
Stefan
It's just so complicated compared with putting an outboard engine on
a hull or even, I suspect, using an inbopard engine with a screw
propellor. To me it's a salutory reminder of some of the reasons why
paddleboats very quickly lost out to screw-driven designs.
Also, in this particular example, it gives the appearance of the
tail wagging the dog, with a huge heavy stern-wheel and associated
machinery that seem to be threatening to sink the boat, as well as
requiring someone sitting way forward to counterbalance the weight.
OTOH there are no doubt many reasons to try it e.g. just the fun of
trying something new, the romance associated with paddleboats, the
shallow-water advantage and possibly because it could be a low-tech
solution that amateurs might find easier.
I'm not completely immune to the charm of paddle-steamers. See:
http://www.geocities.com/howardstephenson/Echuca1.html
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch"
<woodcraftssuch@y...> wrote:
a hull or even, I suspect, using an inbopard engine with a screw
propellor. To me it's a salutory reminder of some of the reasons why
paddleboats very quickly lost out to screw-driven designs.
Also, in this particular example, it gives the appearance of the
tail wagging the dog, with a huge heavy stern-wheel and associated
machinery that seem to be threatening to sink the boat, as well as
requiring someone sitting way forward to counterbalance the weight.
OTOH there are no doubt many reasons to try it e.g. just the fun of
trying something new, the romance associated with paddleboats, the
shallow-water advantage and possibly because it could be a low-tech
solution that amateurs might find easier.
I'm not completely immune to the charm of paddle-steamers. See:
http://www.geocities.com/howardstephenson/Echuca1.html
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch"
<woodcraftssuch@y...> wrote:
> > Those photos provide plenty of reasons for not trying to build a
> > sternwheeler
> What do you mean?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
wrote:
wrote:
> Those photos provide plenty of reasons for not trying to build aWhat do you mean? Sam
> sternwheeler :-)
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" <woodcraftssuch@y...>
> wrote:
> > Try this one, Post #10 by SamSam. Sam
> >
> >http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5651
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
Paul
Das Brikett
Gunbunny
Code XVI
(also a Harley Davidson, Two Triumphs, Two Suzukis and a
Kawasaki....with not one reverse gear in the bunch)
> Thanks JamesThe VAST majority of motorcycles do not have a reverse gear!!
> I have heard the motorcycle idea before and it seems doable. Why
> would reverse be missing if I used the whole drivetrain?
> Steve
>
> > You might also consider using a drive shaft unit off an old shaft
> drive
> > motorcycle instead of the chain drive system. Or use the entire
> engine
> > and drive train, then the only thing missing would be reverse gear,
> but
> > you would have several forward speeds available to you this way.
> >
> > James Greene
Paul
Das Brikett
Gunbunny
Code XVI
(also a Harley Davidson, Two Triumphs, Two Suzukis and a
Kawasaki....with not one reverse gear in the bunch)
Thanks James
I have heard the motorcycle idea before and it seems doable. Why
would reverse be missing if I used the whole drivetrain?
Steve
I have heard the motorcycle idea before and it seems doable. Why
would reverse be missing if I used the whole drivetrain?
Steve
> You might also consider using a drive shaft unit off an old shaftdrive
> motorcycle instead of the chain drive system. Or use the entireengine
> and drive train, then the only thing missing would be reverse gear,but
> you would have several forward speeds available to you this way.
>
> James Greene
That's pretty ambitious of you Ion. I wish I had the welding skills
for that. You will be building in steel? Any idea what motor yyou
will use?
Steve
for that. You will be building in steel? Any idea what motor yyou
will use?
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, lon wells <lononriver@y...> wrote:
> Since you mentioned Atkin sternwheeler take a look at
> his Levee Belle. I hope to build one in the next two
> years
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
Thanks for the links. I'll persue them.
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...>
wrote:
Steve
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...>
wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...>
wrote:
I just wish Mr. Bolger had a nice
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/
under "Sucher 1" and "Sucher 2" of a 30' x 9' sternwheeler taken from
Harry V. Sucher's book Simplified Boatbuilding: The Flat-Bottom Boat.
The frames are on 3' centers so all you have to do is add one in the
middle to get just what you want. Sam
wrote:
I just wish Mr. Bolger had a nice
> sternwheeler design in a deadrise scow shape (to nose up on the bank),Something like this? I just put two files in the Bolger 2 group files.
> about 33 feet length and 9 feet or so beam. Also to be built of wood
> planks or welded steel, no plywood as marine grade plywood is not be
> had here in Nicaragua.
>
> Lewis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/
under "Sucher 1" and "Sucher 2" of a 30' x 9' sternwheeler taken from
Harry V. Sucher's book Simplified Boatbuilding: The Flat-Bottom Boat.
The frames are on 3' centers so all you have to do is add one in the
middle to get just what you want. Sam
James,
Thanks for the post. I never considered a motorcycle drive unit for
several reasons, but the biggie is the need for shock reduction, hence
the desire to have one of the stages to be belts. From the reading I
have done about sternwheelers on the internet, it seems that the shock
loads should not be underestimated, especially the shock of am
emergency shift into reverse. And reverse will be necessary for the
intended operating environment (tour boat operation on Lake Nicaragua,
Nicaragua).
This project is just in the feasibility study stage and a lot more
research needs to be finished. I just wish Mr. Bolger had a nice
sternwheeler design in a deadrise scow shape (to nose up on the bank),
about 33 feet length and 9 feet or so beam. Also to be built of wood
planks or welded steel, no plywood as marine grade plywood is not be
had here in Nicaragua.
Lewis
Thanks for the post. I never considered a motorcycle drive unit for
several reasons, but the biggie is the need for shock reduction, hence
the desire to have one of the stages to be belts. From the reading I
have done about sternwheelers on the internet, it seems that the shock
loads should not be underestimated, especially the shock of am
emergency shift into reverse. And reverse will be necessary for the
intended operating environment (tour boat operation on Lake Nicaragua,
Nicaragua).
This project is just in the feasibility study stage and a lot more
research needs to be finished. I just wish Mr. Bolger had a nice
sternwheeler design in a deadrise scow shape (to nose up on the bank),
about 33 feet length and 9 feet or so beam. Also to be built of wood
planks or welded steel, no plywood as marine grade plywood is not be
had here in Nicaragua.
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "James Greene" <jg6892@g...> wrote:
> >A design link off the American Stern Wheeler Ass. web page page
> >suggests a three stage reduction with the first stage being a stock
> >automotive automatic transmission in first or second gear. This will
> >also give you a reverse as well as controlling shock loads. The second
> >stage should be belts (being cheap and easy to design) and the third
> >stage almost has to be chain drive with large links. (Industrial type
> >as used in conveyers as it can withstand water spray with minimal
> >lubrication.)
>
>
> You might also consider using a drive shaft unit off an old shaft drive
> motorcycle instead of the chain drive system. Or use the entire engine
> and drive train, then the only thing missing would be reverse gear, but
> you would have several forward speeds available to you this way.
>
> James Greene
>A design link off the American Stern Wheeler Ass. web page pageYou might also consider using a drive shaft unit off an old shaft drive
>suggests a three stage reduction with the first stage being a stock
>automotive automatic transmission in first or second gear. This will
>also give you a reverse as well as controlling shock loads. The second
>stage should be belts (being cheap and easy to design) and the third
>stage almost has to be chain drive with large links. (Industrial type
>as used in conveyers as it can withstand water spray with minimal
>lubrication.)
motorcycle instead of the chain drive system. Or use the entire engine
and drive train, then the only thing missing would be reverse gear, but
you would have several forward speeds available to you this way.
James Greene
Since you mentioned Atkin sternwheeler take a look at
his Levee Belle. I hope to build one in the next two
years
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Misc/LeveeBelle.html
Lon
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
his Levee Belle. I hope to build one in the next two
years
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Misc/LeveeBelle.html
Lon
--- "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
> Steve,__________________________________________________
>
> This is the link to the ASA home page:
>http://www.americansternwheel.org/main.htm
>
> and then the "LINKS" button on the left scroll bar
> and select
> "Sternwheel Riverboat Harbor" whick takes you to:
>http://gemort.wirefire.com/Enter.htm
>
> wait for the page to load and then click "ENTER THE
> HARBOR" at the bottom:
>
> And then I get an error! Oh well, it used to work.
> You might email the
> author Gary Morton. He had a lot of valuable
> information there and I
> think he is an officer of the ASA and should be able
> to find his email
> address. Good luck!
>
> And yes, I think "Gwen o' the River" and "Lady of
> the Lake" would
> share the same gearing. I just like the flared sides
> and bow of the
> latter, so thats the study plans I bought.
>
> Lewis
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE"
> <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
> > Your reply was a great help. Which link on th ASA
> did you use?
> > I like the Gwen 'O the River design from Atkin as
> well. Popbabl;y the
> > same gearing!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steve
> > >
> > > Lewis
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Steve,
This is the link to the ASA home page:
http://www.americansternwheel.org/main.htm
and then the "LINKS" button on the left scroll bar and select
"Sternwheel Riverboat Harbor" whick takes you to:
http://gemort.wirefire.com/Enter.htm
wait for the page to load and then click "ENTER THE HARBOR" at the bottom:
And then I get an error! Oh well, it used to work. You might email the
author Gary Morton. He had a lot of valuable information there and I
think he is an officer of the ASA and should be able to find his email
address. Good luck!
And yes, I think "Gwen o' the River" and "Lady of the Lake" would
share the same gearing. I just like the flared sides and bow of the
latter, so thats the study plans I bought.
Lewis
This is the link to the ASA home page:
http://www.americansternwheel.org/main.htm
and then the "LINKS" button on the left scroll bar and select
"Sternwheel Riverboat Harbor" whick takes you to:
http://gemort.wirefire.com/Enter.htm
wait for the page to load and then click "ENTER THE HARBOR" at the bottom:
And then I get an error! Oh well, it used to work. You might email the
author Gary Morton. He had a lot of valuable information there and I
think he is an officer of the ASA and should be able to find his email
address. Good luck!
And yes, I think "Gwen o' the River" and "Lady of the Lake" would
share the same gearing. I just like the flared sides and bow of the
latter, so thats the study plans I bought.
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
> Your reply was a great help. Which link on th ASA did you use?
> I like the Gwen 'O the River design from Atkin as well. Popbabl;y the
> same gearing!
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> >
> > Lewis
Did anyone ever build Bolger's fast sternwheeler?
Lon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Lon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Your reply was a great help. Which link on th ASA did you use?
I like the Gwen 'O the River design from Atkin as well. Popbabl;y the
same gearing!
Thanks
Steve
I like the Gwen 'O the River design from Atkin as well. Popbabl;y the
same gearing!
Thanks
Steve
>
> Lewis
Steve,
I'm far from a math major, but the second question is easy. The engine
speed (3000 rpm) divided by the paddle wheel speed (40 rpm) is a 75 to
1 reduction. For a two stage reduction, trying to keep the two stages
at equal rations, this would be about 8.67 to 1 at each stage (square
root of 75). The first stage should be belts to absorb shock loads and
a 8.67 to one ratio might be difficult to achieve with belts (too
small an engine pully).
A design link off the American Stern Wheeler Ass. web page page
suggests a three stage reduction with the first stage being a stock
automotive automatic transmission in first or second gear. This will
also give you a reverse as well as controlling shock loads. The second
stage should be belts (being cheap and easy to design) and the third
stage almost has to be chain drive with large links. (Industrial type
as used in conveyers as it can withstand water spray with minimal
lubrication.)
Assume a ratio of 1.7 to 1 in the automatic transmission with your
engine speed of 3,000 rpm leaves us at 1,765 rpm. using a belt and
pully ratio of 5 to 1 (4 inch drive and 20 inch driven pulleys) leaves
us at 353 rpm. I think your desired paddle wheel speed of 30 rpm is
too low for a small boat and 60 rpm might be better. Then 363 / 60
equals about 5.9 ratio for the chain (third stage) and this is in the
ball park for chain drive.
Now as to sizing the paddle diameter and length, you'r on you own!
The study plans for "Lady of the Lake", a William Atkins design of 28'
0" X 9' 8" X 10" scow, shows a paddle with 8 buckets and 5 feet
diameter by 5' 6" wide. Rotation speed is 60 rpm and engine speed of
1,800 rpm (this is a 1930's design) gives a speed of 7 mph with 35 HP.
The first stage is five 3/4 inch belts with 4" engine and 20" driven
pulleys. The second stage is 1" wide chain with a 6 to 1 ratio.
Rudder design is critical on a stern wheeler and the ASWA web page has
some good links. Hope this helps!
Lewis
I'm far from a math major, but the second question is easy. The engine
speed (3000 rpm) divided by the paddle wheel speed (40 rpm) is a 75 to
1 reduction. For a two stage reduction, trying to keep the two stages
at equal rations, this would be about 8.67 to 1 at each stage (square
root of 75). The first stage should be belts to absorb shock loads and
a 8.67 to one ratio might be difficult to achieve with belts (too
small an engine pully).
A design link off the American Stern Wheeler Ass. web page page
suggests a three stage reduction with the first stage being a stock
automotive automatic transmission in first or second gear. This will
also give you a reverse as well as controlling shock loads. The second
stage should be belts (being cheap and easy to design) and the third
stage almost has to be chain drive with large links. (Industrial type
as used in conveyers as it can withstand water spray with minimal
lubrication.)
Assume a ratio of 1.7 to 1 in the automatic transmission with your
engine speed of 3,000 rpm leaves us at 1,765 rpm. using a belt and
pully ratio of 5 to 1 (4 inch drive and 20 inch driven pulleys) leaves
us at 353 rpm. I think your desired paddle wheel speed of 30 rpm is
too low for a small boat and 60 rpm might be better. Then 363 / 60
equals about 5.9 ratio for the chain (third stage) and this is in the
ball park for chain drive.
Now as to sizing the paddle diameter and length, you'r on you own!
The study plans for "Lady of the Lake", a William Atkins design of 28'
0" X 9' 8" X 10" scow, shows a paddle with 8 buckets and 5 feet
diameter by 5' 6" wide. Rotation speed is 60 rpm and engine speed of
1,800 rpm (this is a 1930's design) gives a speed of 7 mph with 35 HP.
The first stage is five 3/4 inch belts with 4" engine and 20" driven
pulleys. The second stage is 1" wide chain with a 6 to 1 ratio.
Rudder design is critical on a stern wheeler and the ASWA web page has
some good links. Hope this helps!
Lewis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
> All math majors!
> On some cartoons of the sternwheeler it shows a 2 stage gearing for the
> paddlewheel. How do you figure what size pulleys or sprockets are
> needed. Assuming an engine at 3000 rpm and you want the wheel to go 40
> rpm. The 2 stage means a small pulley at the engine shaft going to a
> large pulley at the first stage then a small pulley at the first stage
> to a large pully at the wheel. Then how do you figure the size of the
> wheel and paddles and how fast the boat will go?
> An Excel spreadsheet would be helpful!
>
> Steve
All math majors!
On some cartoons of the sternwheeler it shows a 2 stage gearing for the
paddlewheel. How do you figure what size pulleys or sprockets are
needed. Assuming an engine at 3000 rpm and you want the wheel to go 40
rpm. The 2 stage means a small pulley at the engine shaft going to a
large pulley at the first stage then a small pulley at the first stage
to a large pully at the wheel. Then how do you figure the size of the
wheel and paddles and how fast the boat will go?
An Excel spreadsheet would be helpful!
Steve
On some cartoons of the sternwheeler it shows a 2 stage gearing for the
paddlewheel. How do you figure what size pulleys or sprockets are
needed. Assuming an engine at 3000 rpm and you want the wheel to go 40
rpm. The 2 stage means a small pulley at the engine shaft going to a
large pulley at the first stage then a small pulley at the first stage
to a large pully at the wheel. Then how do you figure the size of the
wheel and paddles and how fast the boat will go?
An Excel spreadsheet would be helpful!
Steve
http://www.americansternwheel.org/main.htm
This is a link for the american sternwheeler association ASWA it has a
forem for people interested in building sternwheelers and systems.
Jon
This is a link for the american sternwheeler association ASWA it has a
forem for people interested in building sternwheelers and systems.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Like Tom, I think I fell in love with Becky myself.
I see that PCB&F are suggesting that a solar array and a couple of
batteries would fit in with the design. This obviously highly
efficient hull design (1/2 Hp or so to drive.) might lend itself to
electric power as well, in case one needs some extra boost. (Or have
bad knees like me, and who used to bike 50-60 miles occasionaly)
Or even perhaps a wind generator?
Other thoughts - why not a 5-speed gear train?
Why not a full length open roof with an Esmeralda-like full length
sealable hatch.
I wonder if the fellow who comissioned Becky is a member here? Would
love to see the finished product and find out how well that wheel
works!
Nels
> Pedal PoweredThanks Bruce for the information.
> Stem-Wheeler Cruiser
> Design #669
> Becky Thatcher
> 19'9" x 5'4" x 6" x 1300 lbs. w/full load
>
>
Like Tom, I think I fell in love with Becky myself.
I see that PCB&F are suggesting that a solar array and a couple of
batteries would fit in with the design. This obviously highly
efficient hull design (1/2 Hp or so to drive.) might lend itself to
electric power as well, in case one needs some extra boost. (Or have
bad knees like me, and who used to bike 50-60 miles occasionaly)
Or even perhaps a wind generator?
Other thoughts - why not a 5-speed gear train?
Why not a full length open roof with an Esmeralda-like full length
sealable hatch.
I wonder if the fellow who comissioned Becky is a member here? Would
love to see the finished product and find out how well that wheel
works!
Nels
My thanks to all who have replied to my question. I'm sure checking all the sites and trying to do the math will keep me busy for quite a while. Thanks again.
PR
Philip Smith <pbs@...> wrote:
If you are serious about paddle wheel technology, I
can recommend the Museum of the Mississip River in
Dubuque, Iowa. They've got quite a research achive.
Check out
<http://www.mississippirivermuseum.com/main.cfm>
for general information on the museum.
Phil Smith
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PR
Philip Smith <pbs@...> wrote:
If you are serious about paddle wheel technology, I
can recommend the Museum of the Mississip River in
Dubuque, Iowa. They've got quite a research achive.
Check out
<http://www.mississippirivermuseum.com/main.cfm>
for general information on the museum.
Phil Smith
> Yes, I think that's right. Sometimes paddlewheelsBolger rules!!!
> are made that
> provide a degree of feathering for each of the
> blades, so that they
> spend more time at right angles to the water surface
> than they would
> if they were fixed.
>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you are serious about paddle wheel technology, I
can recommend the Museum of the Mississip River in
Dubuque, Iowa. They've got quite a research achive.
Check out
<http://www.mississippirivermuseum.com/main.cfm>
for general information on the museum.
Phil Smith
can recommend the Museum of the Mississip River in
Dubuque, Iowa. They've got quite a research achive.
Check out
<http://www.mississippirivermuseum.com/main.cfm>
for general information on the museum.
Phil Smith
> Yes, I think that's right. Sometimes paddlewheels
> are made that
> provide a degree of feathering for each of the
> blades, so that they
> spend more time at right angles to the water surface
> than they would
> if they were fixed.
>
Yes, I think that's right. Sometimes paddlewheels are made that
provide a degree of feathering for each of the blades, so that they
spend more time at right angles to the water surface than they would
if they were fixed.
Howard
provide a degree of feathering for each of the blades, so that they
spend more time at right angles to the water surface than they would
if they were fixed.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <batwing@k...> wrote:
> I could be wrong on this as I am interpolating a little from paddle
sports
> but I think the paddle angle is not to reduce slap but to put the
paddle
> closer to vertical when it exits the water.
Those photos provide plenty of reasons for not trying to build a
sternwheeler :-)
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" <woodcraftssuch@y...>
wrote:
sternwheeler :-)
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" <woodcraftssuch@y...>
wrote:
> Try this one, Post #10 by SamSam. Sam
>
>http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5651
Thanks for the links Stefan!
Steve Bosquette
Steve Bosquette
> Cheers,
> Stefan
On 9/21/05, Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
Pedal Powered
Stem-Wheeler Cruiser
Design #669
Becky Thatcher
19'9" x 5'4" x 6" x 1300 lbs. w/full load
Paul Everett wrote us about a plan to
"celebrate his 50th birthday by pedaling the
length of the Erie Canal, with one crew:' He
had in mind to use one of our (Paddlin')
Madeline (Design #441) pedaling sidewhe-
elers. That design is about as simple as a pedal
boat can be if it's capable of what passes for
serious performance in such craft. It's a
sidewheeler so that two people can pedal di-
rectly on the crankshaft (fabrication of which
is about the only tricky part of the project).
We understand that it works quite well, hav-
ing heard of an implausibly high speed in it.
But sidewheels are not so good coming
alongside floats of various heights, control-
ling the boat between towering, slimy, lock
walls, confidently exploring tight waters, or
just casually beaching her after smoothing
over the shallows of the receding tide. Fur-
thermore, on a Madeline type geometry there
was no good way for one partner to stretch
out and rest while the other keeps the boat
moving.
In fact, for the proposed venture of a de
facto extended cruise, it seemed like a good
idea to avoid having to count on shoreside
lodging if at all possible. Thus Paul and crew
ought to be able to sleep in the boat in rea-
sonable comfort, to relieve themselves in
some privacy, and to do some rudimentary
cooking. So she became something of a
cruiser with decent load carrying capacity that
would not necessarily have to schedule shore
stops exactly or even frequently.
We took on the commission rather
lightly as a nice diversion between demand-
ing large boat projects. It turned out to be an
unexpectedly time consuming job to work out
in detail. Accepting the human powered
sternwheeler cruiser idea, it seemed neces-
sary to develop it to a reasonably serious level
of actual utility for the building effort. De-
spite the added effort necessary to get on the
water, Paul took the proposal in stride and
was getting it done handsomely when we saw
it in May.
The two ply sheet length hull is a simple
scow except for some deadrise worked into
the forward bottom for quiet in ripples. The
breadth on the bottom is kept to 4', but she
has plenty of stability since the breadth is
carried well out to the ends. The forward ped-
aling position is necessary to balance the
sternwheel weight, while the unrestricted
view ahead and abeam should be a major el-
ement in enjoying progress and judging clear-
ances less tense. A fold hack panel over these
seats allows standing up for stretch and
"shooting the sun" and makes boarding her
easier as well after stepping down from the
foredeck. Not shown, but readily conceivable,
would be a canvas/vinyl windshield assem-
bly between coaming and roof edge to keep
rain off legs while allowing open sides to
ventilate crew adequately.
While Madeline type direct drive geom-
etry proved successful in our assumptions of
agreeable leg travel versus the wheels' power
absorption, it seemed that this rigid single
speed/four legs approach would be less use-
ful on a cruise through variety of weather
conditions and across a range of available
physical stamina. Extended tailwind versus
short headwind situation (there is no future
in long headwind passages in anything hu-
man powered), occasional two legs only
power, or regular mismatch of crews' athletic
capability had to be accounted for in a craft
that would have to work for more than a few
hours of local splashing about. Apart from
dual rudder controls, legs now power her
through two individually adjustable three
speed chain drives turning one shared shaft
from which a long chain runs aft.
We hope the ratii are adequate for rapid
third gear downwind dashes, while laboring
upwind in first would still allow the twosome
crew to match the lock schedule just ahead;
first gear would be the choice moving her
alone with dead weight snoozing off an up-
set stomach in the cabin aft. It would also be
the choice for authoritative maneuvering in
tight quarters. Changing one sprocket wheel
in her final drive would allow adjustments to
match any crew's particular athletic status.
And, rather importantly, her final drive chain
on the wheel runs fully protected; i.e., dry in-
side the sternwheel carrying sponson. Apart
from raindrops on the chain forward, her drive
train should last in very good running order
with just a routine drop of bike chain oil.
We had looked at some alternative ar-
rangements such as splitting the sternwheel
for independent powering by each crew, but
it got even more complicated with not enough
gains. We concluded that a couple of paddles
would be more practical. and probably more
effective, to spin her on a dime.
Inevitably the drive mechanics absorbed
much of our attention and do add up to a rea-
sonably significant budget item, although
consisting 98% of off-the-shelf catalogue
sourced industrial hardware with limited
machining necessary. While we spec'd the
part numbers for good quality ball bearings
throughout, her drive train is less efficient
overall than Madeline's due to the multiplic-
ity of shafts, chains, and sprockets to oper-
ate.
Her cruising capability and ergonomic
adjustability, though, override any such con-
cerns in our minds. Fondly extrapolating from
Madeline's performance reports, we hope that
Becky Thatcher will be steady in her progress,
though slower overall, only occasionally sail-
ing on her superstructure faster than under
leg power. Since speed is not the issue for
Paul's trip, the experience of getting there
seems more enjoyable in the comforts of her
cruising accommodations.
The sternwheel is a watertight, buoyant
drum of wood strip construction with the
paddle blades mounted on its outside. The
unusual rake of the blades is an experiment.
As we see it, when the boat has some way
on, the water emerging from under the hull
will take the descending blades edge on with-
out much slap. The surface area of the blades
at the bottom of their arc will drive the boat,
and the blade lifts out of the water at the end
of its stroke without carrying much water
weight up and over as radial blades do. It
seems to us that the power wasted lifting
water and throwing it forward over the top is
worth saving. We'll write up what actually
happened when we've seen it.
Sitting in her emerging structure recently
certainly drove home how attractive that little
cabin will be. There are full length transom
berths and good sitting headroom easily
closed in for privacy as needed, stronger than
a tent for bad weather and some security The
plans don't actually show much interior de
tailing except structural and drive related
items, the near 1' wide footwell between the
berths, lots of stowage volume under berths
and in bins abaft both. After you are done
color coordinating her superstructure with
those functional shutters and those carved
nameboards on the sides of the wheelbox, be
your own interior decorator as well! The gal-
ley could be arranged transversely at the
cabin's after end venting through window
over the sternwheel box. Sitting sidesaddle
to cook seems a tolerable geometry when the
stomach is growling and the bugs are frus
trated by the screens in her window
Paul agreed to add a lot of foam panels
in her light hull structure to beef it up further
and add positive buoyancy while offering low
condensation potential when spending rainy
days just reading and watching ducks She
ought to carry solar panels to feed one or two
batteries for necessities and luxuries. Her load
carrying capacity is perfectly up to the job of
lugging a battery, your legs soon would be
anyway. Likely the caloric intake necessary
for the crew's output will require a lot of
pounds of high powered food to be earned
along. We'd carry a folding bike on top ot
her sternwheel box.
We picked Becky Thatcher for a draw- -
ing board name after the pretty ten-year-old
blond who Tom Sawyer fell in love with at
first sight. And we noticed that there ought
tobe a third book apart from Tom Sawyer and
Huckleberry Finn. Since Becky Thatcher and
Tom had a great adventure together. we
amused ourselves with an alternate universe -
fantasy in which girls and women had a lot
more freedom and options than they did in
the the 1840 setting of those great books So
when Becky had developed an ambition to
be a steamboat pilot, not much stood in her
way, such as the tragic superstitions that die
tate societies to suppress half of their avail
able talent.
Becky was supposed to be the same age
as Mark Twain. He lived until 1910 If shed
lived that long in a culture in which women
weren't prohibited from doing engineering,
she would have seen some startling things.
After all, even in Mark Twain's universe he
lived to see 30-knot turbine ships and 600psi
boilers, having served his apprenticeship with
sen knots and not much more than lOOpsi
(with frequent catastrophic explosions at
that). He could have seen an airplane fly
Without wasting half of the talent pool in our
hypothetical sensible universe likely there d
have been gas turbines and radar by that time
and by this time there would be space cities
mining the rings of Saturn. At any rate here s
to Becky Thatcher!
Plans on seven sheets are $___ from Phil
Bolger & Friends. P0. Box 1209, Gloucester
MA 01930-1627.
> > An interesting contrast to Bolger's 'Becky Thatcher' design #669=========================
> Is there a write-up on this design anywhere?
> Nels
Pedal Powered
Stem-Wheeler Cruiser
Design #669
Becky Thatcher
19'9" x 5'4" x 6" x 1300 lbs. w/full load
Paul Everett wrote us about a plan to
"celebrate his 50th birthday by pedaling the
length of the Erie Canal, with one crew:' He
had in mind to use one of our (Paddlin')
Madeline (Design #441) pedaling sidewhe-
elers. That design is about as simple as a pedal
boat can be if it's capable of what passes for
serious performance in such craft. It's a
sidewheeler so that two people can pedal di-
rectly on the crankshaft (fabrication of which
is about the only tricky part of the project).
We understand that it works quite well, hav-
ing heard of an implausibly high speed in it.
But sidewheels are not so good coming
alongside floats of various heights, control-
ling the boat between towering, slimy, lock
walls, confidently exploring tight waters, or
just casually beaching her after smoothing
over the shallows of the receding tide. Fur-
thermore, on a Madeline type geometry there
was no good way for one partner to stretch
out and rest while the other keeps the boat
moving.
In fact, for the proposed venture of a de
facto extended cruise, it seemed like a good
idea to avoid having to count on shoreside
lodging if at all possible. Thus Paul and crew
ought to be able to sleep in the boat in rea-
sonable comfort, to relieve themselves in
some privacy, and to do some rudimentary
cooking. So she became something of a
cruiser with decent load carrying capacity that
would not necessarily have to schedule shore
stops exactly or even frequently.
We took on the commission rather
lightly as a nice diversion between demand-
ing large boat projects. It turned out to be an
unexpectedly time consuming job to work out
in detail. Accepting the human powered
sternwheeler cruiser idea, it seemed neces-
sary to develop it to a reasonably serious level
of actual utility for the building effort. De-
spite the added effort necessary to get on the
water, Paul took the proposal in stride and
was getting it done handsomely when we saw
it in May.
The two ply sheet length hull is a simple
scow except for some deadrise worked into
the forward bottom for quiet in ripples. The
breadth on the bottom is kept to 4', but she
has plenty of stability since the breadth is
carried well out to the ends. The forward ped-
aling position is necessary to balance the
sternwheel weight, while the unrestricted
view ahead and abeam should be a major el-
ement in enjoying progress and judging clear-
ances less tense. A fold hack panel over these
seats allows standing up for stretch and
"shooting the sun" and makes boarding her
easier as well after stepping down from the
foredeck. Not shown, but readily conceivable,
would be a canvas/vinyl windshield assem-
bly between coaming and roof edge to keep
rain off legs while allowing open sides to
ventilate crew adequately.
While Madeline type direct drive geom-
etry proved successful in our assumptions of
agreeable leg travel versus the wheels' power
absorption, it seemed that this rigid single
speed/four legs approach would be less use-
ful on a cruise through variety of weather
conditions and across a range of available
physical stamina. Extended tailwind versus
short headwind situation (there is no future
in long headwind passages in anything hu-
man powered), occasional two legs only
power, or regular mismatch of crews' athletic
capability had to be accounted for in a craft
that would have to work for more than a few
hours of local splashing about. Apart from
dual rudder controls, legs now power her
through two individually adjustable three
speed chain drives turning one shared shaft
from which a long chain runs aft.
We hope the ratii are adequate for rapid
third gear downwind dashes, while laboring
upwind in first would still allow the twosome
crew to match the lock schedule just ahead;
first gear would be the choice moving her
alone with dead weight snoozing off an up-
set stomach in the cabin aft. It would also be
the choice for authoritative maneuvering in
tight quarters. Changing one sprocket wheel
in her final drive would allow adjustments to
match any crew's particular athletic status.
And, rather importantly, her final drive chain
on the wheel runs fully protected; i.e., dry in-
side the sternwheel carrying sponson. Apart
from raindrops on the chain forward, her drive
train should last in very good running order
with just a routine drop of bike chain oil.
We had looked at some alternative ar-
rangements such as splitting the sternwheel
for independent powering by each crew, but
it got even more complicated with not enough
gains. We concluded that a couple of paddles
would be more practical. and probably more
effective, to spin her on a dime.
Inevitably the drive mechanics absorbed
much of our attention and do add up to a rea-
sonably significant budget item, although
consisting 98% of off-the-shelf catalogue
sourced industrial hardware with limited
machining necessary. While we spec'd the
part numbers for good quality ball bearings
throughout, her drive train is less efficient
overall than Madeline's due to the multiplic-
ity of shafts, chains, and sprockets to oper-
ate.
Her cruising capability and ergonomic
adjustability, though, override any such con-
cerns in our minds. Fondly extrapolating from
Madeline's performance reports, we hope that
Becky Thatcher will be steady in her progress,
though slower overall, only occasionally sail-
ing on her superstructure faster than under
leg power. Since speed is not the issue for
Paul's trip, the experience of getting there
seems more enjoyable in the comforts of her
cruising accommodations.
The sternwheel is a watertight, buoyant
drum of wood strip construction with the
paddle blades mounted on its outside. The
unusual rake of the blades is an experiment.
As we see it, when the boat has some way
on, the water emerging from under the hull
will take the descending blades edge on with-
out much slap. The surface area of the blades
at the bottom of their arc will drive the boat,
and the blade lifts out of the water at the end
of its stroke without carrying much water
weight up and over as radial blades do. It
seems to us that the power wasted lifting
water and throwing it forward over the top is
worth saving. We'll write up what actually
happened when we've seen it.
Sitting in her emerging structure recently
certainly drove home how attractive that little
cabin will be. There are full length transom
berths and good sitting headroom easily
closed in for privacy as needed, stronger than
a tent for bad weather and some security The
plans don't actually show much interior de
tailing except structural and drive related
items, the near 1' wide footwell between the
berths, lots of stowage volume under berths
and in bins abaft both. After you are done
color coordinating her superstructure with
those functional shutters and those carved
nameboards on the sides of the wheelbox, be
your own interior decorator as well! The gal-
ley could be arranged transversely at the
cabin's after end venting through window
over the sternwheel box. Sitting sidesaddle
to cook seems a tolerable geometry when the
stomach is growling and the bugs are frus
trated by the screens in her window
Paul agreed to add a lot of foam panels
in her light hull structure to beef it up further
and add positive buoyancy while offering low
condensation potential when spending rainy
days just reading and watching ducks She
ought to carry solar panels to feed one or two
batteries for necessities and luxuries. Her load
carrying capacity is perfectly up to the job of
lugging a battery, your legs soon would be
anyway. Likely the caloric intake necessary
for the crew's output will require a lot of
pounds of high powered food to be earned
along. We'd carry a folding bike on top ot
her sternwheel box.
We picked Becky Thatcher for a draw- -
ing board name after the pretty ten-year-old
blond who Tom Sawyer fell in love with at
first sight. And we noticed that there ought
tobe a third book apart from Tom Sawyer and
Huckleberry Finn. Since Becky Thatcher and
Tom had a great adventure together. we
amused ourselves with an alternate universe -
fantasy in which girls and women had a lot
more freedom and options than they did in
the the 1840 setting of those great books So
when Becky had developed an ambition to
be a steamboat pilot, not much stood in her
way, such as the tragic superstitions that die
tate societies to suppress half of their avail
able talent.
Becky was supposed to be the same age
as Mark Twain. He lived until 1910 If shed
lived that long in a culture in which women
weren't prohibited from doing engineering,
she would have seen some startling things.
After all, even in Mark Twain's universe he
lived to see 30-knot turbine ships and 600psi
boilers, having served his apprenticeship with
sen knots and not much more than lOOpsi
(with frequent catastrophic explosions at
that). He could have seen an airplane fly
Without wasting half of the talent pool in our
hypothetical sensible universe likely there d
have been gas turbines and radar by that time
and by this time there would be space cities
mining the rings of Saturn. At any rate here s
to Becky Thatcher!
Plans on seven sheets are $___ from Phil
Bolger & Friends. P0. Box 1209, Gloucester
MA 01930-1627.
I could be wrong on this as I am interpolating a little from paddle sports
but I think the paddle angle is not to reduce slap but to put the paddle
closer to vertical when it exits the water. Modern canoe paddles have bent
shafts for the same reason. The leading edge of the paddle when angled as
drawn on Becky Thatcher will actually create some hydrodynamic lift as it
enters the water from the angle of incidence of the paddle edge and part of
this component will be vertical lifting the stern. If the paddle is
approaching horizontal as it exits the water it tends to depress the stern
and also cause some significant drag. This paddle angle is just more
efficient than those set parallel to the wheel diameters.
Mark
but I think the paddle angle is not to reduce slap but to put the paddle
closer to vertical when it exits the water. Modern canoe paddles have bent
shafts for the same reason. The leading edge of the paddle when angled as
drawn on Becky Thatcher will actually create some hydrodynamic lift as it
enters the water from the angle of incidence of the paddle edge and part of
this component will be vertical lifting the stern. If the paddle is
approaching horizontal as it exits the water it tends to depress the stern
and also cause some significant drag. This paddle angle is just more
efficient than those set parallel to the wheel diameters.
Mark
> From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
> Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:20:59 -0700
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sternwheeler
>> mph if slip is 30%. I guess it would take 140 hp to swing a wheel this
>> big in a boat this big...." The boat is 25 1/2 feet long 8 feet wide.
>> Steve Bosquette
>
> An interesting contrast to Bolger's 'Becky Thatcher' design #669
> which is a 19'9" x 5'4" stern wheeled foot pedal powered cruiser
> for two, with cabin and full length berths for sleeping.
>
> Foot powered = 1/2 horse power? [wild guess] versus 140 hp
>
> The #669 design has fascinated me because the paddles are
> inclined to the water so that slap is reduced.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Is there a write-up on this design anywhere? Looking at the cartoon
in "bolger study plans only" I find it quite fascinating and
attractive as well.
Would be interesting as a picnic boat for two couples to go day
paddling together and alternate driving and sightseeing:-)
http://tinyurl.com/9ctme
Nels
> An interesting contrast to Bolger's 'Becky Thatcher' design #669Bruce,
> which is a 19'9" x 5'4" stern wheeled foot pedal powered cruiser
> for two, with cabin and full length berths for sleeping.
>
>
Is there a write-up on this design anywhere? Looking at the cartoon
in "bolger study plans only" I find it quite fascinating and
attractive as well.
Would be interesting as a picnic boat for two couples to go day
paddling together and alternate driving and sightseeing:-)
http://tinyurl.com/9ctme
Nels
> mph if slip is 30%. I guess it would take 140 hp to swing a wheel thisAn interesting contrast to Bolger's 'Becky Thatcher' design #669
> big in a boat this big...." The boat is 25 1/2 feet long 8 feet wide.
> Steve Bosquette
which is a 19'9" x 5'4" stern wheeled foot pedal powered cruiser
for two, with cabin and full length berths for sleeping.
Foot powered = 1/2 horse power? [wild guess] versus 140 hp
The #669 design has fascinated me because the paddles are
inclined to the water so that slap is reduced.
--- Philip Ridenauer <akula151@y...> wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/paddle-wheelers
Some useful information is also here:
http://gemort.wirefire.com/Wheel.htm
Cheers,
Stefan
> I would be interested to learn if you developed dimensionsDid you try the Paddle-Wheeles' group?
> for the paddle blades and the diameter of the wheel for the size
> engine and anticipated rpm.
> If you did could you provide the math or direct me
> to where you found it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/paddle-wheelers
Some useful information is also here:
http://gemort.wirefire.com/Wheel.htm
Cheers,
Stefan
I found the article on the Fast Sternwheeler in BWOM and here is the
info on the wheel:
"I've tentatively shown a wheel 36 inch diameter by 6 feet wide; the
diameter includes 2- inch paddle blades mounted on a 32 inch diameter
cylinder. Each paddle has a shade less area than the swept disk of an
18 inch diameter propeller. They are mounted on a watertight cylinder
to minimize the amount of water carried around the wheel instead of
being driven astern. The wheel is supposed to turn 300 rpm giving 22
mph if slip is 30%. I guess it would take 140 hp to swing a wheel this
big in a boat this big...." The boat is 25 1/2 feet long 8 feet wide.
Steve Bosquette
info on the wheel:
"I've tentatively shown a wheel 36 inch diameter by 6 feet wide; the
diameter includes 2- inch paddle blades mounted on a 32 inch diameter
cylinder. Each paddle has a shade less area than the swept disk of an
18 inch diameter propeller. They are mounted on a watertight cylinder
to minimize the amount of water carried around the wheel instead of
being driven astern. The wheel is supposed to turn 300 rpm giving 22
mph if slip is 30%. I guess it would take 140 hp to swing a wheel this
big in a boat this big...." The boat is 25 1/2 feet long 8 feet wide.
Steve Bosquette
I saw a stern wheeler, powered by a Bolger favorite an
air cooled Deutz diesel, in Pennsylvania a week or so
ago. It is a ferry and only runs on the weekends. I
was there on a weekday or I would have ridden it
several round trips.
It's in Pennsylvania. Let me see if I can figure out
where I was.
air cooled Deutz diesel, in Pennsylvania a week or so
ago. It is a ferry and only runs on the weekends. I
was there on a weekday or I would have ridden it
several round trips.
It's in Pennsylvania. Let me see if I can figure out
where I was.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5651
> Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"Try this one, Post #10 by SamSam. Sam
> or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
> sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5651
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...> wrote:
lawnmower transmission. I don't know if the links to pictures will
work, but if you want more info, just ask. Sam
http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oL4wQyTMfuWT9yq-O3BDj00ziGLmWFi3p7BNb9GY-
oMvF-hxs6T7UycQa1f2_8uMSCnjk6G8usJDISkQF2gVcWjbRcyebqa23AJzrg/small%
20sternwheeler/paddlewheeler.jpg
http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oL4wQ1G0_FuT9yq-
g5C3lB_T9dtRUG2N6WlyxT9plUTzT8Q0gpQX_a06nQnVx0td9A6nnKGY6tuLNaRrNM_AbWqL
6Xz_WRqEmR0Exg/engine%20room.jpg
> Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"I built a small one using a 5hp Briggs & Stratton with a riding
> or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
> sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
lawnmower transmission. I don't know if the links to pictures will
work, but if you want more info, just ask. Sam
http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oL4wQyTMfuWT9yq-O3BDj00ziGLmWFi3p7BNb9GY-
oMvF-hxs6T7UycQa1f2_8uMSCnjk6G8usJDISkQF2gVcWjbRcyebqa23AJzrg/small%
20sternwheeler/paddlewheeler.jpg
http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oL4wQ1G0_FuT9yq-
g5C3lB_T9dtRUG2N6WlyxT9plUTzT8Q0gpQX_a06nQnVx0td9A6nnKGY6tuLNaRrNM_AbWqL
6Xz_WRqEmR0Exg/engine%20room.jpg
Bolger gives a description of the wheel and paddle sizes in his
books. Look for the articles about the Toy Riverboat in Folding
Schooner and the Fast Sterwheeler in Boat with an open mind.
Also look at John Atkins site his sternwheeler plans come with gear
ratios for sprockets and v-belts. Do a google search for "Sterwheeler
plans and there is a site about building one.
Steve Bosquette
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
books. Look for the articles about the Toy Riverboat in Folding
Schooner and the Fast Sterwheeler in Boat with an open mind.
Also look at John Atkins site his sternwheeler plans come with gear
ratios for sprockets and v-belts. Do a google search for "Sterwheeler
plans and there is a site about building one.
Steve Bosquette
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE BOSQUETTE" <mainesal5@y...>
wrote:
> Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"
> or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
> sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
At 09:02 PM 9/20/05, Phillip wrote:
trial and error proposition.
The diameter of the wheel is an approximation, which I figured could be
adjusted for by changing gears in the motorcycle transmission as needed. I
tried to get the dip of the paddles to approximate the area of a normal
propellor for a fifty horse engine, since an average of one paddle is in
the water at any given instance..
How this is going to work in actuallity is really a guess.
Unless someone else has tried and not told us about it?
Regards,
RonB
>I would be interested to learn if you developed dimensions for the paddleThat information I could not find anywhere. It really is going to be a
>blades and the diameter of the wheel for the size engine and anticipated
>rpm. If you did could you provide the math or direct me to where you found it?
trial and error proposition.
The diameter of the wheel is an approximation, which I figured could be
adjusted for by changing gears in the motorcycle transmission as needed. I
tried to get the dip of the paddles to approximate the area of a normal
propellor for a fifty horse engine, since an average of one paddle is in
the water at any given instance..
How this is going to work in actuallity is really a guess.
Unless someone else has tried and not told us about it?
Regards,
RonB
I would be interested to learn if you developed dimensions for the paddle blades and the diameter of the wheel for the size engine and anticipated rpm. If you did could you provide the math or direct me to where you found it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Philip
Ron Butterfield <ronb_5@...> wrote:
At 07:27 PM 9/19/05, you wrote:
did any actual work on it. The idea and drawings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Fast%20Sternwheeler%20%28paddlewheeler%29/
Regards,
RonB
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Boating Boat design Storage Outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Philip
Ron Butterfield <ronb_5@...> wrote:
At 07:27 PM 9/19/05, you wrote:
>Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"I put together some ideas for "proof of concept" some time ago, but never
>or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
>sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
did any actual work on it. The idea and drawings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Fast%20Sternwheeler%20%28paddlewheeler%29/
Regards,
RonB
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Boating Boat design Storage Outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
At 07:27 PM 9/19/05, you wrote:
did any actual work on it. The idea and drawings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Fast%20Sternwheeler%20%28paddlewheeler%29/
Regards,
RonB
>Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"I put together some ideas for "proof of concept" some time ago, but never
>or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
>sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
did any actual work on it. The idea and drawings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Fast%20Sternwheeler%20%28paddlewheeler%29/
Regards,
RonB
Has anyone messed with a sternwheeler concept like "Toy riverboat"
or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
Thanks
Steve
or "Fast Sternwheeler"?? Or has anyone experimented with the
sterwheel concept on even a small scale??
Thanks
Steve