Re: The "new" Super Brick Challenge
A well done, well illustrated (Photographed) building guide for
SuperBrick, piques my interest.
I maintain my original pledge for the SuperBrick Challenge should any
builder finish one.
But I also like James Green's proposal.
I'll pledge $25 towards this effort as well. I would enjoy very much
seeing and reading about the building of a SuperBrick, even though I
know I would never build one myself. In itself, well worth the $25.
It is an entirely different proposition, but the end goal, getting to
see the SuperBrick design realized, is the same. It still captures my
fancy and I am willing to contribute to any plan that achieves this end.
So good luck. Amateurs, Boatbuilders All.
Perhaps we'll see one soon.
Rhett Davis
SuperBrick, piques my interest.
I maintain my original pledge for the SuperBrick Challenge should any
builder finish one.
But I also like James Green's proposal.
I'll pledge $25 towards this effort as well. I would enjoy very much
seeing and reading about the building of a SuperBrick, even though I
know I would never build one myself. In itself, well worth the $25.
It is an entirely different proposition, but the end goal, getting to
see the SuperBrick design realized, is the same. It still captures my
fancy and I am willing to contribute to any plan that achieves this end.
So good luck. Amateurs, Boatbuilders All.
Perhaps we'll see one soon.
Rhett Davis
Hi Stephen,
Yes I know perfectly well that there's a difference between my proposal
and the original challenge, that's why mine is different!
In my proposal those who value a step-by-step photo illustrated Super
Brick Building Manual will actually have one -- as soon as a couple of
months from now -- and all it will cost them is their pledge amount in
advance, instead of in arrears.
For those who won't be building a Super Brick, their value will be an
opportunity to visit the Philippines and take the boat out for a sail
personally -- literally for weeks or months at a time if no one else is
waiting for a turn at the helm. Or if I pursue Rich's train of thought,
they can wait until I bring it to the USA and sail it there instead (not
sure how to afford this yet, but I would if I could).
Oh and for those whose goal is simply to enjoy being generous by handing
over their money as a "prize", a more meaningful experience might be to
help feed the kids of the poor carpenters I plan to hire to build this boat.
Yes, there's a difference in "spirit" here. My spirit encourages me to
lead a project where everyone involved will benefit in one way or
another. The original challenge just gives money to someone who doesn't
even need it.
It all depends upon your motivation I guess. Different strokes for
different folks ... :)
James Greene
Yes I know perfectly well that there's a difference between my proposal
and the original challenge, that's why mine is different!
In my proposal those who value a step-by-step photo illustrated Super
Brick Building Manual will actually have one -- as soon as a couple of
months from now -- and all it will cost them is their pledge amount in
advance, instead of in arrears.
For those who won't be building a Super Brick, their value will be an
opportunity to visit the Philippines and take the boat out for a sail
personally -- literally for weeks or months at a time if no one else is
waiting for a turn at the helm. Or if I pursue Rich's train of thought,
they can wait until I bring it to the USA and sail it there instead (not
sure how to afford this yet, but I would if I could).
Oh and for those whose goal is simply to enjoy being generous by handing
over their money as a "prize", a more meaningful experience might be to
help feed the kids of the poor carpenters I plan to hire to build this boat.
Yes, there's a difference in "spirit" here. My spirit encourages me to
lead a project where everyone involved will benefit in one way or
another. The original challenge just gives money to someone who doesn't
even need it.
It all depends upon your motivation I guess. Different strokes for
different folks ... :)
James Greene
>Sorry James, but absolutely not. I'm almost offended that you even
>suggest this.
>
>The original challenge was based on the following premise: "If you build
>it, we will reward
>you." Your so-called "challenge" is based on a different principle: "If
>you pay for the
>materials, I will build it."
>
>Can't you see that the spirit of your proposal is completely different
>from the original
>challenge?
>
>The one thing that does offend me is the suggestion (on your web site)
>that people who
>made pledges to the first challenge should "register" their pledges with
>you. My pledge is
>registered here, thank you.
>
>Stephen Paskey
Sorry James, but absolutely not. I'm almost offended that you even suggest this.
The original challenge was based on the following premise: "If you build it, we will reward
you." Your so-called "challenge" is based on a different principle: "If you pay for the
materials, I will build it."
Can't you see that the spirit of your proposal is completely different from the original
challenge?
The one thing that does offend me is the suggestion (on your web site) that people who
made pledges to the first challenge should "register" their pledges with you. My pledge is
registered here, thank you.
Stephen Paskey
The original challenge was based on the following premise: "If you build it, we will reward
you." Your so-called "challenge" is based on a different principle: "If you pay for the
materials, I will build it."
Can't you see that the spirit of your proposal is completely different from the original
challenge?
The one thing that does offend me is the suggestion (on your web site) that people who
made pledges to the first challenge should "register" their pledges with you. My pledge is
registered here, thank you.
Stephen Paskey
Hi Bruce,
At one time I was thinking about manufacturing a specific design in large
numbers, such as John Welsford's Tread Lightly for example:
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/treadlightly
This boat has the "salty good looks" that lots of guys would love to have
as their own private little "escape machine" so they can get away from
the civilized world on short notice at minimal cost but with the comfort
of a real sit-in and sleep-in cabin. If I ever select a wooden boat to
build in large numbers, this one is definitely on my list.
You might be right when you say that building a Super Brick could hurt my
so-called boat building business. Then again I don't have a business
yet, so I really have nothing to lose. And who knows, maybe becoming a
"niche" boat builder is the best way to break into this business ... ?
My goal is to build whatever boats my potential customer might hire me to
build for them. Building an unconventional boat like Super Brick will
illustrate the fact that I can build uncommon boats over here!
The bottom line is that I recognize your concerns but I'm not all that
worried about them.
There is actually the possibility (however remote) that Super Brick will
become a wildly popular boat in the USA. If this happens I could very
well become the builder of hundreds of Super Bricks some day. That's not
a bad future for a little boat factory in the Philippines no matter how
you look at it.
And if this little boat building shop of mine never turns into a real
business, that's okay too. I just like building things, and boats are
fun to build ... :)
James Greene
At one time I was thinking about manufacturing a specific design in large
numbers, such as John Welsford's Tread Lightly for example:
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/treadlightly
This boat has the "salty good looks" that lots of guys would love to have
as their own private little "escape machine" so they can get away from
the civilized world on short notice at minimal cost but with the comfort
of a real sit-in and sleep-in cabin. If I ever select a wooden boat to
build in large numbers, this one is definitely on my list.
You might be right when you say that building a Super Brick could hurt my
so-called boat building business. Then again I don't have a business
yet, so I really have nothing to lose. And who knows, maybe becoming a
"niche" boat builder is the best way to break into this business ... ?
My goal is to build whatever boats my potential customer might hire me to
build for them. Building an unconventional boat like Super Brick will
illustrate the fact that I can build uncommon boats over here!
The bottom line is that I recognize your concerns but I'm not all that
worried about them.
There is actually the possibility (however remote) that Super Brick will
become a wildly popular boat in the USA. If this happens I could very
well become the builder of hundreds of Super Bricks some day. That's not
a bad future for a little boat factory in the Philippines no matter how
you look at it.
And if this little boat building shop of mine never turns into a real
business, that's okay too. I just like building things, and boats are
fun to build ... :)
James Greene
>Fundamentally, 'outsourcing' a boat building shop to a part of
>the world with lower labor costs sounds like a good idea.
>
>But do you really think that choosing the most unconventional
>and contrary boat design known to man is the best choice
>to use as a marketing tool to showcase the viability of
>your new boat shop?
>
>Your next boat, presumably would be a mainstream boat, one that
>must be marketable to a mainstream market. A market which
>must be won for your boat building business to succeed.
>
>I fear that the mainstream market is not ready for Superbrick,
>and that we might actually be hurting your chances of
>success on your start up of a boat building business.
Hi Rich,
Thanks for your comments.
built a Bolger boat before may be able to give me a ballpark estimate
based on their personal experience. I can easily adjust their numbers to
the local market. I'm not asking for firm numbers here, just a rough
idea from anyone who has built a boat from Bolger's plans. Anyone?
money in advance I would gladly start immediately on a Super Brick. But
remember, I'm already investing thousands in the shop and equipment
myself, so if I end up investing my own cash in the boat too, I may just
build a different boat -- one for my personal use -- rather than a boat
that everyone else seems to like so much.
first invite everyone to pledge. Then when the pledge total exceeds the
estimated building costs I will ask everyone to send their funds. If I
don't receive enough money to build it (start to finish) I can just
return everyone's money and forget about it. But if I receive enough to
cover my estimated building costs, I would put this money in the bank and
draw from it to pay for materials and labor as we proceed with the project.
for this small amount they probably won't care if they get their money
back or not. But I could easily give everyone's money back when I sell
it. Maybe I should, what do you think? Would more people make a
contribution if I promised their money back when I sell it in a year or two?
for not finishing it because of "lack of funds". I don't really like the
idea of starting unless I'm convinced that there will be enough money
available to finish what I start. I prefer to find ways to avoid future
problems, and this is one of those times ... :)
and the tools and equipment. Plus I'll be investing months of my time
(my unpaid full-time effort) to record the building steps and procedures
photographically and verbally so others can benefit from this
information. I'm not sure what all this is worth, but it seems to me
that asking for $20 or $25 in advance from everyone who hopes to benefit
from this effort is not unreasonable.
James Greene
Thanks for your comments.
>I think that you need to come up with that estimate. It would be hardI only asked for help with the man-hour estimate because those who have
>for others to do this, as you suggest.
built a Bolger boat before may be able to give me a ballpark estimate
based on their personal experience. I can easily adjust their numbers to
the local market. I'm not asking for firm numbers here, just a rough
idea from anyone who has built a boat from Bolger's plans. Anyone?
>Did you need that money in advance?I don't really need it, but yes that's the whole idea. If I get the
money in advance I would gladly start immediately on a Super Brick. But
remember, I'm already investing thousands in the shop and equipment
myself, so if I end up investing my own cash in the boat too, I may just
build a different boat -- one for my personal use -- rather than a boat
that everyone else seems to like so much.
>I know you called it a pledge, but I was not sure of this.I probably didn't explain it clearly, sorry about that. My concept is to
first invite everyone to pledge. Then when the pledge total exceeds the
estimated building costs I will ask everyone to send their funds. If I
don't receive enough money to build it (start to finish) I can just
return everyone's money and forget about it. But if I receive enough to
cover my estimated building costs, I would put this money in the bank and
draw from it to pay for materials and labor as we proceed with the project.
>And I was not sure if you intended onI figure that most people won't pledge more than $20 or $25 anyways, and
>distributing proceeds after the sale, back to the pledgers?
for this small amount they probably won't care if they get their money
back or not. But I could easily give everyone's money back when I sell
it. Maybe I should, what do you think? Would more people make a
contribution if I promised their money back when I sell it in a year or two?
>You mention the hourly wage of the builders... It sounds as though youThat's right! If the money is here in advance there won't be any excuse
>are intending on covering this in your pledge drive before starting?
for not finishing it because of "lack of funds". I don't really like the
idea of starting unless I'm convinced that there will be enough money
available to finish what I start. I prefer to find ways to avoid future
problems, and this is one of those times ... :)
>Or can you start on your own funds, needing the pledges paid only onI'm already starting with my own funds by investing in the shop building
>completion?
and the tools and equipment. Plus I'll be investing months of my time
(my unpaid full-time effort) to record the building steps and procedures
photographically and verbally so others can benefit from this
information. I'm not sure what all this is worth, but it seems to me
that asking for $20 or $25 in advance from everyone who hopes to benefit
from this effort is not unreasonable.
James Greene
Fundamentally, 'outsourcing' a boat building shop to a part of
the world with lower labor costs sounds like a good idea.
But do you really think that choosing the most unconventional
and contrary boat design known to man is the best choice
to use as a marketing tool to showcase the viability of
your new boat shop?
Your next boat, presumably would be a mainstream boat, one that
must be marketable to a mainstream market. A market which
must be won for your boat building business to succeed.
I fear that the mainstream market is not ready for Superbrick,
and that we might actually be hurting your chances of
success on your start up of a boat building business.
the world with lower labor costs sounds like a good idea.
But do you really think that choosing the most unconventional
and contrary boat design known to man is the best choice
to use as a marketing tool to showcase the viability of
your new boat shop?
Your next boat, presumably would be a mainstream boat, one that
must be marketable to a mainstream market. A market which
must be won for your boat building business to succeed.
I fear that the mainstream market is not ready for Superbrick,
and that we might actually be hurting your chances of
success on your start up of a boat building business.
James: It all sounds interesting, but I had a couple of thoughts and
questions:
I think that you need to come up with that estimate. It would be hard
for others to do this, as you suggest. You would know best what your
abilities are, and costs would be, for the level of construction you
intend. This, especially, since you are in such a different
environment than most of the readers and potential pledgers. I built a
20' cruising boat for only $2,500 13 years ago, but at the time it
would have been considered by most a much more expensive project.
There is no way anyone else could have known what I would have spent
on the project, not knowing me or my available and intended resources.
I think it is like this for any project, especially a large and
complex one such as this boat.
Did you need that money in advance? I know you called it a pledge, but
I was not sure of this. And I was not sure if you intended on
distributing proceeds after the sale, back to the pledgers?
You mention the hourly wage of the builders... It sounds as though you
are intending on covering this in your pledge drive before starting?
Or can you start on your own funds, needing the pledges paid only on
completion?
Those things considered, I think your approach has merit. Perhaps you
could add that a pledge of a "certain amount" gets a certain amount of
time on the boat, and you could set up a schedule. For instance, a
$300 pledge might get the boat for a week. This would be a large sum
toward the boat, and yet a very reasonable sum for lodging for a week
in your beautiful Phillipines. Ten weeks "reservations" and the boat
may be paid for! It would be win/win for everyone. Perhaps the boat
could spend part of the time with you, then shipped to a marina in the
States for a summer, for those who could not do "thier" week in your
country. Then it could be sold here. What do you think? I am sure I
could not get to the Phillipines in the foreseeable future, but I
would certainly spend $300 for a week on a Superbrick in Wellfleet harbor.
Best of luck... Rich SantaColoma.
questions:
I think that you need to come up with that estimate. It would be hard
for others to do this, as you suggest. You would know best what your
abilities are, and costs would be, for the level of construction you
intend. This, especially, since you are in such a different
environment than most of the readers and potential pledgers. I built a
20' cruising boat for only $2,500 13 years ago, but at the time it
would have been considered by most a much more expensive project.
There is no way anyone else could have known what I would have spent
on the project, not knowing me or my available and intended resources.
I think it is like this for any project, especially a large and
complex one such as this boat.
Did you need that money in advance? I know you called it a pledge, but
I was not sure of this. And I was not sure if you intended on
distributing proceeds after the sale, back to the pledgers?
You mention the hourly wage of the builders... It sounds as though you
are intending on covering this in your pledge drive before starting?
Or can you start on your own funds, needing the pledges paid only on
completion?
Those things considered, I think your approach has merit. Perhaps you
could add that a pledge of a "certain amount" gets a certain amount of
time on the boat, and you could set up a schedule. For instance, a
$300 pledge might get the boat for a week. This would be a large sum
toward the boat, and yet a very reasonable sum for lodging for a week
in your beautiful Phillipines. Ten weeks "reservations" and the boat
may be paid for! It would be win/win for everyone. Perhaps the boat
could spend part of the time with you, then shipped to a marina in the
States for a summer, for those who could not do "thier" week in your
country. Then it could be sold here. What do you think? I am sure I
could not get to the Phillipines in the foreseeable future, but I
would certainly spend $300 for a week on a Superbrick in Wellfleet harbor.
Best of luck... Rich SantaColoma.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "James Greene" <jg6892@g...> wrote:
> Hello again fellow Bolger fans,
>
> A couple of weeks ago I learned about the "Super Brick Challenge" in
> which people pledged varying amounts of money to the person who first
> builds a Bolger Super Brick. I had already planned to start building
> boats here in the Philippines this year anyways, so building the world's
> first Super Brick is a challenge I'm ready to pursue.
>
> I'm hoping that those of you who made pledges to the original Super
Brick
> Challenge (and others who have not) will support my new and slightly
> different proposal -- one that will actually get this boat built
fast and
> cheap, hopefully by the end of the year if I can get started any
time soon.
>
> I had a simple web site built to support this project. It explains my
> plans and goals so please visit if you're interested:
>
>http://superbrick.incebu.com
>
> This web site is still on a development server (because it's free) so it
> may not be available all the time. If you get an error please just try
> again later, or email me privately and I'll see if I can fix it, thanks.
>
> James Greene
I'm hoping that those of you who made pledges to the original Super Brick
Challenge (and others who have not) will support my new and slightly
different proposal -- one that will actually get this boat built fast and
cheap, hopefully by the end of the year if I can get started any time soon.
I had a simple web site built to support this project. It explains my
plans and goals so please visit if you're interested:
<http://superbrick.incebu.com>http://superbrick.incebu.com
This web site is still on a development server (because it's free) so it
may not be available all the time. If you get an error please just try
again later, or email me privately and I'll see if I can fix it, thanks.
James Greene
Well, I don't know.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Challenge (and others who have not) will support my new and slightly
different proposal -- one that will actually get this boat built fast and
cheap, hopefully by the end of the year if I can get started any time soon.
I had a simple web site built to support this project. It explains my
plans and goals so please visit if you're interested:
<http://superbrick.incebu.com>http://superbrick.incebu.com
This web site is still on a development server (because it's free) so it
may not be available all the time. If you get an error please just try
again later, or email me privately and I'll see if I can fix it, thanks.
James Greene
Well, I don't know.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello again fellow Bolger fans,
A couple of weeks ago I learned about the "Super Brick Challenge" in
which people pledged varying amounts of money to the person who first
builds a Bolger Super Brick. I had already planned to start building
boats here in the Philippines this year anyways, so building the world's
first Super Brick is a challenge I'm ready to pursue.
I'm hoping that those of you who made pledges to the original Super Brick
Challenge (and others who have not) will support my new and slightly
different proposal -- one that will actually get this boat built fast and
cheap, hopefully by the end of the year if I can get started any time soon.
I had a simple web site built to support this project. It explains my
plans and goals so please visit if you're interested:
http://superbrick.incebu.com
This web site is still on a development server (because it's free) so it
may not be available all the time. If you get an error please just try
again later, or email me privately and I'll see if I can fix it, thanks.
James Greene
A couple of weeks ago I learned about the "Super Brick Challenge" in
which people pledged varying amounts of money to the person who first
builds a Bolger Super Brick. I had already planned to start building
boats here in the Philippines this year anyways, so building the world's
first Super Brick is a challenge I'm ready to pursue.
I'm hoping that those of you who made pledges to the original Super Brick
Challenge (and others who have not) will support my new and slightly
different proposal -- one that will actually get this boat built fast and
cheap, hopefully by the end of the year if I can get started any time soon.
I had a simple web site built to support this project. It explains my
plans and goals so please visit if you're interested:
http://superbrick.incebu.com
This web site is still on a development server (because it's free) so it
may not be available all the time. If you get an error please just try
again later, or email me privately and I'll see if I can fix it, thanks.
James Greene