RE: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?

I'm mistaken, my rudder does follow the hull angle, pretty much. No top
plate either, just a bottom end plate. - Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Kreamer
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:32 PM
To: Jamie Orr
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?



Hi Jamie,

Thanks I can work with that picture, and I found
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/016/8/article.htm.

Yahoo kindly truncated Chuck's email. Can you email me chuck's email so I
can get to him off-group? I found yours through Google.

My rudder top edge is horizontal, but for the reason that it has end plates
on both top and bottom. I couldn't say whether this is better than having
the rudder run clear up to the hull. I guess your rudder has enough overhead
clearance not to touch the hull when it's hard over?

Thanks, Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jamie Orr
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?



Bill, I've posted a picture of Chuck Gottfried's Full Gallop flying a
jib in Bolger 6. You should contact him directly at cgottfried@...
for better information.



Randy Wheating also uses a jib, the one
shown on the sail plan, with a 5' foot.

Chuck is a member of this group, I expect Randy is too but I haven't
looked yet and if I do before I send this I will have to re-type it!

Good pictures of Samantha/Lois. In the one at anchor, the top of the
rudder is visible -- it looks like it is level, rather than sloping
up. Is that the case? The plans show the rudder should rise, not
quite with the slope of the hull because it would catch, but in that
direction. If yours is flat, then it may be less effective as water
will be flowing over the top more than if it was sloped. I don't
know just how much difference that would make, and I may be wrong
about the lack of slope anyway....

Jamie

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> I put some images in Bolger6 Files (Bill's Chebacco). The boat's
builder,
> Paul Thober named her "Samantha;" she is now "Lois."
>
> Quoting Paul:
>
> "This boat is a modified Chebacco - it varies from the design in
the
> following ways: It has a shallow draft keel rather than a
centerboard, the
> cabin is longer, wider and taller allowing a full length double
berth and
> facing settees with a fold-down table. The cockpit is shorter by
the amount
> the cabin is longer. She is gaff-rigged."
>
> And:
>
> "I thought the cabin far too small for cruising comfort. In my
opinion the
> standard Chebacco is really a day sailor that can be used for camp
cruising.
> My solution was to lengthen and widen the cabin and to raise the
cabin roof.
> I also raised the sheer by 4". I eliminated the centerboard in
favor of the
> keel shown on the cruising version of the Chebacco in Boats With an
Open
> Mind."
>
> A quirk of the boat, perhaps because it has a lot more windage than
a
> standard Chebacco, is that it quickly loses way when tacking in a
15 knot
> breeze. I have to get up a good head of steam and put the helm over
just so,
> no more and no less, to tack through. It is not always successful,
so I'll
> run the engine in an anchorage as insurance.
>
> Jamie, the mizzen has two sheets as you suggest, but one sheet to a
boomkin
> would seem simpler, maybe foul the outboard less, and give flatter
sheeting?
>
>
> I do take your point on reefing early.
>
> Can you give me any urls of Chebacco jib pictures?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Jamie Orr
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
> weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
> profile, I wonder?
>
> The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on either
> quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the sheets
> once each, then leave them alone.
>
> Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering, but
> the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I was
> going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
> difference to the speed.
>
> I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
> bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
> knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the
last
> outing.
>
> Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and I
> thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane.
Again,
> could the keel be making a difference, more drag?
>
> Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
> some pictures for us?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> >
> > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward
OK,
> when not
> > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
extended
> cabin,
> > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a
comfortable
> cruiser,
> > not a "fast boat."
> >
> > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
> one spends
> > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or
me
> and the
> > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
> like work.
> >
> > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
> develops
> > weather helm in puffs.
> >
> > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
> sheet the
> > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
offset
> boomkin
> > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
tending
> > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more
sail
> area up
> > forward and down low.
> >
> > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy
air
> the
> > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
> notwithstanding. But
> > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be
a
> good
> > project. - Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > dnjost
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat
is
> > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> >
> > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
> trailer,
> > and looks very sharp as well!
> >
> > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
that
> > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
> don't
> > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> >
> > David Jost
> > boatless in Massachusetts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging
> dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It will make a lot of difference. Mine is as tight a fit as I could
get, and I have not problems steering running downwind. Even when
overpowered.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie Orr" <jas_orr@y...> wrote:
>
> Bill, I've posted a picture of Chuck Gottfried's Full Gallop flying
a
> jib in Bolger 6. You should contact him directly at cgottfried@
> for better information. Randy Wheating also uses a jib, the one
> shown on the sail plan, with a 5' foot.
>
> Chuck is a member of this group, I expect Randy is too but I
haven't
> looked yet and if I do before I send this I will have to re-type it!
>
> Good pictures of Samantha/Lois. In the one at anchor, the top of
the
> rudder is visible -- it looks like it is level, rather than sloping
> up. Is that the case? The plans show the rudder should rise, not
> quite with the slope of the hull because it would catch, but in
that
> direction. If yours is flat, then it may be less effective as
water
> will be flowing over the top more than if it was sloped. I don't
> know just how much difference that would make, and I may be wrong
> about the lack of slope anyway....
>
> Jamie
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jamie,
> >
> > I put some images in Bolger6 Files (Bill's Chebacco). The boat's
> builder,
> > Paul Thober named her "Samantha;" she is now "Lois."
> >
> > Quoting Paul:
> >
> > "This boat is a modified Chebacco - it varies from the design in
> the
> > following ways: It has a shallow draft keel rather than a
> centerboard, the
> > cabin is longer, wider and taller allowing a full length double
> berth and
> > facing settees with a fold-down table. The cockpit is shorter by
> the amount
> > the cabin is longer. She is gaff-rigged."
> >
> > And:
> >
> > "I thought the cabin far too small for cruising comfort. In my
> opinion the
> > standard Chebacco is really a day sailor that can be used for
camp
> cruising.
> > My solution was to lengthen and widen the cabin and to raise the
> cabin roof.
> > I also raised the sheer by 4". I eliminated the centerboard in
> favor of the
> > keel shown on the cruising version of the Chebacco in Boats With
an
> Open
> > Mind."
> >
> > A quirk of the boat, perhaps because it has a lot more windage
than
> a
> > standard Chebacco, is that it quickly loses way when tacking in a
> 15 knot
> > breeze. I have to get up a good head of steam and put the helm
over
> just so,
> > no more and no less, to tack through. It is not always
successful,
> so I'll
> > run the engine in an anchorage as insurance.
> >
> > Jamie, the mizzen has two sheets as you suggest, but one sheet to
a
> boomkin
> > would seem simpler, maybe foul the outboard less, and give
flatter
> sheeting?
> >
> >
> > I do take your point on reefing early.
> >
> > Can you give me any urls of Chebacco jib pictures?
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > Jamie Orr
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
> > weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
> > profile, I wonder?
> >
> > The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on
either
> > quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the
sheets
> > once each, then leave them alone.
> >
> > Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering,
but
> > the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I
was
> > going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
> > difference to the speed.
> >
> > I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
> > bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
> > knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the
> last
> > outing.
> >
> > Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and
I
> > thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane.
> Again,
> > could the keel be making a difference, more drag?
> >
> > Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
> > some pictures for us?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jamie Orr
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...>
wrote:
> > >
> > > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward
> OK,
> > when not
> > > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
> extended
> > cabin,
> > > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a
> comfortable
> > cruiser,
> > > not a "fast boat."
> > >
> > > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit,
where
> > one spends
> > > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or
> me
> > and the
> > > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too
much
> > like work.
> > >
> > > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
> > develops
> > > weather helm in puffs.
> > >
> > > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
> > sheet the
> > > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
> offset
> > boomkin
> > > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
> tending
> > > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more
> sail
> > area up
> > > forward and down low.
> > >
> > > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy
> air
> > the
> > > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
> > notwithstanding. But
> > > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might
be
> a
> > good
> > > project. - Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > dnjost
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall
cat
> is
> > > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> > >
> > > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
> > trailer,
> > > and looks very sharp as well!
> > >
> > > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
> that
> > > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
> > don't
> > > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> > >
> > > David Jost
> > > boatless in Massachusetts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
> flogging
> > dead
> > > horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred'
> > posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax:
> > > (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * Visit your group "bolger
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> > > on the web.
> > >
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging
> dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> >
> >
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> t=ms&k=Boating&w1=Boating&w2=Boat+design&w3=St
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
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> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> > on the web.
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> >
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Mine has standard hull and rudder/centerboard, but the mast is moved
forward 6-8 inches.

Light weather helm if I drop the board all the way, but it is easily
canceled out by NOT dropping the centerboard all the way.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:

>
> In the flush deck update of Chebacco, Bolger moves the mast forward

a good

> foot and eliminates the rake to combat reports of excessive weather

helm. He

> also adds a balanced rudder to lighten the helm even futher. Look

in the

> yahoo group bolger_study_plans_only for a drawing.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
> > Heading up in the puffs is a good way to get to windward

quickly. I guess

> > it's a matter of degree.
> >
> > Could the weather helm be helped by decreasing the mast rake?

Might be a

> > relatively simple fix, particularly if you've got the tabernacle
> arrangement
> > (whittle a bit on the heel and pad the lockdown bar).
> >
> > (Or maybe just peak the gaff higher?) (Or maybe just flatten the

sail's

> > draft with the luff and foot tensions?) I'm curious as to what

you've

> tried
> > that didn't work, even tho the CB version shouldn't have the same
> problems.
> >
> > Increasing the rudder area might also help the weather helm.

Don't some

> of
> > PCB's designs uses a bow "center" board and the rudder to develop

all the

> > lateral area? That kind of rig could be tuned to whatever helm

you

> wanted.
> >
> > Roger (still building on a 20' lapstrake CB cruising conversion

version)

> > derbyrm@N...
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...>
> >
> >
> > > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward

OK, when

> > > not
> > > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and

extended

> cabin,
> > > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a

comfortable

> > > cruiser,
> > > not a "fast boat."
> > >
> > > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit,

where one

> > > spends
> > > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or

me and

> the
> > > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too

much like

> > > work.
> > >
> > > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it

develops

> > > weather helm in puffs.
> > >
> > > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never

sheet the

> > > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an

offset

> > > boomkin
> > > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self

tending

> > > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more

sail area

> up
> > > forward and down low.
> > >
> > > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy

air the

> > > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets

notwithstanding.

> But
> > > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might

be a good

> > > project. - Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of
> > > dnjost
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall

cat is

> > > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> > >
> > > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and

trailer,

> > > and looks very sharp as well!
> > >
> > > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place

that

> > > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen

don't

> > > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> > >
> > > David Jost
> > > boatless in Massachusetts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or

flogging dead

> > > horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,

Fred' posts

> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip

away

> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,

01930,

> Fax:
> > > (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-

subscribe@yahoogroups.com

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * Visit your group "bolger
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>
> > > "
> > > on the web.
> > >
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or

flogging dead

> > > horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,

Fred' posts

> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip

away

> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,

01930,

> Fax:
> > > (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-

subscribe@yahoogroups.com

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or

flogging dead

> horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'

posts

> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,

01930, Fax:

> (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Jamie,

Thanks I can work with that picture, and I found
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/016/8/article.htm.

Yahoo kindly truncated Chuck's email. Can you email me chuck's email so I
can get to him off-group? I found yours through Google.

My rudder top edge is horizontal, but for the reason that it has end plates
on both top and bottom. I couldn't say whether this is better than having
the rudder run clear up to the hull. I guess your rudder has enough overhead
clearance not to touch the hull when it's hard over?

Thanks, Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jamie Orr
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?



Bill, I've posted a picture of Chuck Gottfried's Full Gallop flying a
jib in Bolger 6. You should contact him directly at cgottfried@...
for better information.



Randy Wheating also uses a jib, the one
shown on the sail plan, with a 5' foot.

Chuck is a member of this group, I expect Randy is too but I haven't
looked yet and if I do before I send this I will have to re-type it!

Good pictures of Samantha/Lois. In the one at anchor, the top of the
rudder is visible -- it looks like it is level, rather than sloping
up. Is that the case? The plans show the rudder should rise, not
quite with the slope of the hull because it would catch, but in that
direction. If yours is flat, then it may be less effective as water
will be flowing over the top more than if it was sloped. I don't
know just how much difference that would make, and I may be wrong
about the lack of slope anyway....

Jamie

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> I put some images in Bolger6 Files (Bill's Chebacco). The boat's
builder,
> Paul Thober named her "Samantha;" she is now "Lois."
>
> Quoting Paul:
>
> "This boat is a modified Chebacco - it varies from the design in
the
> following ways: It has a shallow draft keel rather than a
centerboard, the
> cabin is longer, wider and taller allowing a full length double
berth and
> facing settees with a fold-down table. The cockpit is shorter by
the amount
> the cabin is longer. She is gaff-rigged."
>
> And:
>
> "I thought the cabin far too small for cruising comfort. In my
opinion the
> standard Chebacco is really a day sailor that can be used for camp
cruising.
> My solution was to lengthen and widen the cabin and to raise the
cabin roof.
> I also raised the sheer by 4". I eliminated the centerboard in
favor of the
> keel shown on the cruising version of the Chebacco in Boats With an
Open
> Mind."
>
> A quirk of the boat, perhaps because it has a lot more windage than
a
> standard Chebacco, is that it quickly loses way when tacking in a
15 knot
> breeze. I have to get up a good head of steam and put the helm over
just so,
> no more and no less, to tack through. It is not always successful,
so I'll
> run the engine in an anchorage as insurance.
>
> Jamie, the mizzen has two sheets as you suggest, but one sheet to a
boomkin
> would seem simpler, maybe foul the outboard less, and give flatter
sheeting?
>
>
> I do take your point on reefing early.
>
> Can you give me any urls of Chebacco jib pictures?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Jamie Orr
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
> weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
> profile, I wonder?
>
> The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on either
> quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the sheets
> once each, then leave them alone.
>
> Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering, but
> the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I was
> going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
> difference to the speed.
>
> I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
> bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
> knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the
last
> outing.
>
> Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and I
> thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane.
Again,
> could the keel be making a difference, more drag?
>
> Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
> some pictures for us?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> >
> > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward
OK,
> when not
> > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
extended
> cabin,
> > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a
comfortable
> cruiser,
> > not a "fast boat."
> >
> > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
> one spends
> > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or
me
> and the
> > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
> like work.
> >
> > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
> develops
> > weather helm in puffs.
> >
> > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
> sheet the
> > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
offset
> boomkin
> > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
tending
> > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more
sail
> area up
> > forward and down low.
> >
> > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy
air
> the
> > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
> notwithstanding. But
> > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be
a
> good
> > project. - Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > dnjost
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat
is
> > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> >
> > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
> trailer,
> > and looks very sharp as well!
> >
> > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
that
> > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
> don't
> > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> >
> > David Jost
> > boatless in Massachusetts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging
> dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> > * Visit your group "bolger
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> > on the web.
> >
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




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_____







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie Orr" <jas_orr@y...> wrote:

>
> Bill, I've posted a picture of Chuck Gottfried's Full Gallop

flying a

> jib in Bolger 6.

The more I see of these Chebaccos the more alluring they become!What
a misery to find myself deep in construction bliss with Windermere
while playfully entertaining thoughts of my next boat,which for the
moment would be the AS-29.However she is being given a good threat
from the Red Zinger and lately,now,...darnit....looming just over
the
horizon comes the Chebacco.
I'd better hurry up and finish Windermere so that I can finally move
aboard and have more bucks available for multiple building
orgasms/pleasures :-)

Thanks for great picture Jamie!

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,who still misses his Micro LESTAT despite some scary
thoughts about all the fun I could have with a
Chebacco...yikes!....from along the shores of the St.Lawrence,as it
were..............

Bill, I've posted a picture of Chuck Gottfried's Full Gallop flying a
jib in Bolger 6. You should contact him directly at cgottfried@...
for better information. Randy Wheating also uses a jib, the one
shown on the sail plan, with a 5' foot.

Chuck is a member of this group, I expect Randy is too but I haven't
looked yet and if I do before I send this I will have to re-type it!

Good pictures of Samantha/Lois. In the one at anchor, the top of the
rudder is visible -- it looks like it is level, rather than sloping
up. Is that the case? The plans show the rudder should rise, not
quite with the slope of the hull because it would catch, but in that
direction. If yours is flat, then it may be less effective as water
will be flowing over the top more than if it was sloped. I don't
know just how much difference that would make, and I may be wrong
about the lack of slope anyway....

Jamie

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> I put some images in Bolger6 Files (Bill's Chebacco). The boat's
builder,
> Paul Thober named her "Samantha;" she is now "Lois."
>
> Quoting Paul:
>
> "This boat is a modified Chebacco - it varies from the design in
the
> following ways: It has a shallow draft keel rather than a
centerboard, the
> cabin is longer, wider and taller allowing a full length double
berth and
> facing settees with a fold-down table. The cockpit is shorter by
the amount
> the cabin is longer. She is gaff-rigged."
>
> And:
>
> "I thought the cabin far too small for cruising comfort. In my
opinion the
> standard Chebacco is really a day sailor that can be used for camp
cruising.
> My solution was to lengthen and widen the cabin and to raise the
cabin roof.
> I also raised the sheer by 4". I eliminated the centerboard in
favor of the
> keel shown on the cruising version of the Chebacco in Boats With an
Open
> Mind."
>
> A quirk of the boat, perhaps because it has a lot more windage than
a
> standard Chebacco, is that it quickly loses way when tacking in a
15 knot
> breeze. I have to get up a good head of steam and put the helm over
just so,
> no more and no less, to tack through. It is not always successful,
so I'll
> run the engine in an anchorage as insurance.
>
> Jamie, the mizzen has two sheets as you suggest, but one sheet to a
boomkin
> would seem simpler, maybe foul the outboard less, and give flatter
sheeting?
>
>
> I do take your point on reefing early.
>
> Can you give me any urls of Chebacco jib pictures?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Jamie Orr
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
> weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
> profile, I wonder?
>
> The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on either
> quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the sheets
> once each, then leave them alone.
>
> Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering, but
> the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I was
> going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
> difference to the speed.
>
> I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
> bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
> knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the
last
> outing.
>
> Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and I
> thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane.
Again,
> could the keel be making a difference, more drag?
>
> Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
> some pictures for us?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> >
> > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward
OK,
> when not
> > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
extended
> cabin,
> > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a
comfortable
> cruiser,
> > not a "fast boat."
> >
> > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
> one spends
> > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or
me
> and the
> > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
> like work.
> >
> > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
> develops
> > weather helm in puffs.
> >
> > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
> sheet the
> > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
offset
> boomkin
> > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
tending
> > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more
sail
> area up
> > forward and down low.
> >
> > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy
air
> the
> > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
> notwithstanding. But
> > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be
a
> good
> > project. - Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > dnjost
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat
is
> > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> >
> > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
> trailer,
> > and looks very sharp as well!
> >
> > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
that
> > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
> don't
> > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> >
> > David Jost
> > boatless in Massachusetts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging
> dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> > * Visit your group "bolger
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> > on the web.
> >
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Thanks Rob. That would be a question for the builder, Paul Thober, who is
now building another boat. - Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Robin Badenoch
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:05 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?



Hi Bill,
Now that looks like a very nice 20' cruiser. Do you have any
drawings of the mods you made.

Rob B
Oz

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK,
when not
> pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
extended cabin,
> so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
cruiser,
> not a "fast boat."
>
> On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
one spends
> the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me
and the
> grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
like work.
>
> The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
develops
> weather helm in puffs.
>
> There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
sheet the
> mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
offset boomkin
> to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
tending
> balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail
area up
> forward and down low.
>
> Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air
the
> shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
notwithstanding. But
> hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a
good
> project. - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat
is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill-- Have you tried trimming the mizzen to reduce weather helm? If you
ease it, the center of effort should move forward and reduce weather helm.

Re the off center vortex: I read an article which addressed a similiar
vortex on Viking long ships and their derivatives. The article argued that
said vortex reduced drag and improved performance. The hull shapes of long
boats and Chebacco's are different. But you can't do anything about the
vortex, so you might want to claim it as a performance enhancing feature
produced by PCB's genius. (If you don't know how to pronounce a word,
pronounce it loudly!)

John T

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?


> Thanks for the reply Roger. I should have said it develops _excess_
> weather
> helm as the wind increases. There's no rake to remove, and the gaff is
> peaked nearly vertical now. I'm not inclined to try a bow centerboard, and
> I
> don't want to move the mainmast forward either - too much deck re-work -
> but
> adding a jib might do the trick. Then I could actually let the mizzen work
> a
> bit. And slacking or dropping the main would be an option in a blow, when
> tying in a reef was neglected.
>
> Converting the rudder to a kick up type wouldn't be all that hard. It
> could
> even have a bit of balance area forward of the hinge line when all the way
> down.
>
> Another question. Has anyone seen a trail of vortex bubbles off the stern
> when the boat is pressed? It is off center a foot or more, and changes to
> the windward side on either tack. The off center part leads me away from
> the
> rudder as the culprit. But could it be suction from hull leeway pulling
> air
> in at the rudder stock hole?
>
> -Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Roger Derby
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:38 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Heading up in the puffs is a good way to get to windward quickly. I guess
> it's a matter of degree.
>
> Could the weather helm be helped by decreasing the mast rake? Might be a
> relatively simple fix, particularly if you've got the tabernacle
> arrangement
>
> (whittle a bit on the heel and pad the lockdown bar).
>
> (Or maybe just peak the gaff higher?) (Or maybe just flatten the sail's
> draft with the luff and foot tensions?) I'm curious as to what you've
> tried
>
> that didn't work, even tho the CB version shouldn't have the same
> problems.
>
> Increasing the rudder area might also help the weather helm. Don't some
> of
> PCB's designs uses a bow "center" board and the rudder to develop all the
> lateral area? That kind of rig could be tuned to whatever helm you
> wanted.
>
> Roger (still building on a 20' lapstrake CB cruising conversion version)
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release Date: 10/3/2005
>
>

Hi Bill,
Now that looks like a very nice 20' cruiser. Do you have any
drawings of the mods you made.

Rob B
Oz

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK,
when not
> pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and
extended cabin,
> so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
cruiser,
> not a "fast boat."
>
> On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
one spends
> the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me
and the
> grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
like work.
>
> The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
develops
> weather helm in puffs.
>
> There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
sheet the
> mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an
offset boomkin
> to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self
tending
> balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail
area up
> forward and down low.
>
> Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air
the
> shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
notwithstanding. But
> hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a
good
> project. - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat
is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place
that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Jamie,

I put some images in Bolger6 Files (Bill's Chebacco). The boat's builder,
Paul Thober named her "Samantha;" she is now "Lois."

Quoting Paul:

"This boat is a modified Chebacco - it varies from the design in the
following ways: It has a shallow draft keel rather than a centerboard, the
cabin is longer, wider and taller allowing a full length double berth and
facing settees with a fold-down table. The cockpit is shorter by the amount
the cabin is longer. She is gaff-rigged."

And:

"I thought the cabin far too small for cruising comfort. In my opinion the
standard Chebacco is really a day sailor that can be used for camp cruising.
My solution was to lengthen and widen the cabin and to raise the cabin roof.
I also raised the sheer by 4". I eliminated the centerboard in favor of the
keel shown on the cruising version of the Chebacco in Boats With an Open
Mind."

A quirk of the boat, perhaps because it has a lot more windage than a
standard Chebacco, is that it quickly loses way when tacking in a 15 knot
breeze. I have to get up a good head of steam and put the helm over just so,
no more and no less, to tack through. It is not always successful, so I'll
run the engine in an anchorage as insurance.

Jamie, the mizzen has two sheets as you suggest, but one sheet to a boomkin
would seem simpler, maybe foul the outboard less, and give flatter sheeting?


I do take your point on reefing early.

Can you give me any urls of Chebacco jib pictures?

Thanks for your help,

Bill

_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jamie Orr
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?



Hi Bill,

Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
profile, I wonder?

The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on either
quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the sheets
once each, then leave them alone.

Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering, but
the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I was
going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
difference to the speed.

I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the last
outing.

Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and I
thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane. Again,
could the keel be making a difference, more drag?

Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
some pictures for us?

Cheers,

Jamie Orr

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK,
when not
> pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and extended
cabin,
> so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
cruiser,
> not a "fast boat."
>
> On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
one spends
> the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me
and the
> grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
like work.
>
> The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
develops
> weather helm in puffs.
>
> There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
sheet the
> mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an offset
boomkin
> to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self tending
> balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail
area up
> forward and down low.
>
> Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air
the
> shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
notwithstanding. But
> hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a
good
> project. - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Another question. Has anyone seen a trail of vortex bubbles off the

stern

> when the boat is pressed? It is off center a foot or more, and

changes to

> the windward side on either tack. The off center part leads me away

from the

> rudder as the culprit. But could it be suction from hull leeway

pulling air

> in at the rudder stock hole?

Bolger has described something like this with Long Micro. He ascribed
it to the low aspect ratio keel. Hard for me to imagine the keel on
Chebacco could do, though.

Hi Bill,

Interesting comments. Sound like you've got an unusual amount of
weather helm, could it be due to the keel? Could you change the
profile, I wonder?

The mizzen can be made self tending by putting a fairlead on either
quarter, and using two sheets. You only need to adjust the sheets
once each, then leave them alone.

Going downwind, I've had to reef in order to ease the steering, but
the wind was well past the point where I would have reefed if I was
going the other way, so it was time anyway. It didn't make much
difference to the speed.

I don't use a jib, but a couple of the guys fly them from short
bowsprits and like them. Definitely added some speed in under 15
knot winds, over that the advantage disappeared, at least on the last
outing.

Speed is relative, I guess. I frequently sail over 5 knots, and I
thought that was okay, without being able to get up on plane. Again,
could the keel be making a difference, more drag?

Is your's what they call the "glass house" version? Can you post
some pictures for us?

Cheers,

Jamie Orr

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
>
> On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK,
when not
> pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and extended
cabin,
> so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
cruiser,
> not a "fast boat."
>
> On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where
one spends
> the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me
and the
> grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much
like work.
>
> The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it
develops
> weather helm in puffs.
>
> There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never
sheet the
> mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an offset
boomkin
> to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self tending
> balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail
area up
> forward and down low.
>
> Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air
the
> shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets
notwithstanding. But
> hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a
good
> project. - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and
trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen
don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for the reply Roger. I should have said it develops _excess_ weather
helm as the wind increases. There's no rake to remove, and the gaff is
peaked nearly vertical now. I'm not inclined to try a bow centerboard, and I
don't want to move the mainmast forward either - too much deck re-work - but
adding a jib might do the trick. Then I could actually let the mizzen work a
bit. And slacking or dropping the main would be an option in a blow, when
tying in a reef was neglected.

Converting the rudder to a kick up type wouldn't be all that hard. It could
even have a bit of balance area forward of the hinge line when all the way
down.

Another question. Has anyone seen a trail of vortex bubbles off the stern
when the boat is pressed? It is off center a foot or more, and changes to
the windward side on either tack. The off center part leads me away from the
rudder as the culprit. But could it be suction from hull leeway pulling air
in at the rudder stock hole?

-Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Derby
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:38 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?



Heading up in the puffs is a good way to get to windward quickly. I guess
it's a matter of degree.

Could the weather helm be helped by decreasing the mast rake? Might be a
relatively simple fix, particularly if you've got the tabernacle arrangement

(whittle a bit on the heel and pad the lockdown bar).

(Or maybe just peak the gaff higher?) (Or maybe just flatten the sail's
draft with the luff and foot tensions?) I'm curious as to what you've tried

that didn't work, even tho the CB version shouldn't have the same problems.

Increasing the rudder area might also help the weather helm. Don't some of
PCB's designs uses a bow "center" board and the rudder to develop all the
lateral area? That kind of rig could be tuned to whatever helm you wanted.

Roger (still building on a 20' lapstrake CB cruising conversion version)
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds like a Black Skimmer to me with the tabernacle mast

HJ

dnjost wrote:

>John,
>
>I could not find the study plans in the Bolger group you mentioned, I
>have written to Mr. Bolger with my questions regarding the design, and
>hopefully he will respond with some answers and ideas.
>
>The requirements are:
>
>1. sprawling room for my wife to get a tan
>
>2. small cuddy to get out of the rain and keep lunch dry (one night
>overnight possibility)
>
>3. must be easy to launch
>
>4. capable of sailing well. (I am an ex-dinghy sailor that likes a
>little adrenaline rush every now and then.)
>
>David Jost
>
>
>
>
>

It's in there (mind the wrap):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Chebacco%20%23540/Chebacco%20%23540%20RD%20%28raised%20deck%29/

----- Original Message -----
From: "dnjost" <davidjost@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:06 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco anyone?


> John,
>
> I could not find the study plans in the Bolger group you mentioned, I
> have written to Mr. Bolger with my questions regarding the design, and
> hopefully he will respond with some answers and ideas.
>
> The requirements are:
>
> 1. sprawling room for my wife to get a tan
>
> 2. small cuddy to get out of the rain and keep lunch dry (one night
> overnight possibility)
>
> 3. must be easy to launch
>
> 4. capable of sailing well. (I am an ex-dinghy sailor that likes a
> little adrenaline rush every now and then.)
>
> David Jost
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

John,

I could not find the study plans in the Bolger group you mentioned, I
have written to Mr. Bolger with my questions regarding the design, and
hopefully he will respond with some answers and ideas.

The requirements are:

1. sprawling room for my wife to get a tan

2. small cuddy to get out of the rain and keep lunch dry (one night
overnight possibility)

3. must be easy to launch

4. capable of sailing well. (I am an ex-dinghy sailor that likes a
little adrenaline rush every now and then.)

David Jost

In the flush deck update of Chebacco, Bolger moves the mast forward a good
foot and eliminates the rake to combat reports of excessive weather helm. He
also adds a balanced rudder to lighten the helm even futher. Look in the
yahoo group bolger_study_plans_only for a drawing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?


> Heading up in the puffs is a good way to get to windward quickly. I guess
> it's a matter of degree.
>
> Could the weather helm be helped by decreasing the mast rake? Might be a
> relatively simple fix, particularly if you've got the tabernacle
arrangement
> (whittle a bit on the heel and pad the lockdown bar).
>
> (Or maybe just peak the gaff higher?) (Or maybe just flatten the sail's
> draft with the luff and foot tensions?) I'm curious as to what you've
tried
> that didn't work, even tho the CB version shouldn't have the same
problems.
>
> Increasing the rudder area might also help the weather helm. Don't some
of
> PCB's designs uses a bow "center" board and the rudder to develop all the
> lateral area? That kind of rig could be tuned to whatever helm you
wanted.
>
> Roger (still building on a 20' lapstrake CB cruising conversion version)
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
>
>
> > On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK, when
> > not
> > pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and extended
cabin,
> > so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
> > cruiser,
> > not a "fast boat."
> >
> > On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where one
> > spends
> > the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me and
the
> > grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much like
> > work.
> >
> > The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it develops
> > weather helm in puffs.
> >
> > There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never sheet the
> > mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an offset
> > boomkin
> > to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self tending
> > balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail area
up
> > forward and down low.
> >
> > Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air the
> > shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets notwithstanding.
But
> > hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a good
> > project. - Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
> > dnjost
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> > sold and I am itching to build anew.
> >
> > I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and trailer,
> > and looks very sharp as well!
> >
> > does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
> > must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen don't
> > sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
> >
> > David Jost
> > boatless in Massachusetts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> > * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>
> > "
> > on the web.
> >
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Heading up in the puffs is a good way to get to windward quickly. I guess
it's a matter of degree.

Could the weather helm be helped by decreasing the mast rake? Might be a
relatively simple fix, particularly if you've got the tabernacle arrangement
(whittle a bit on the heel and pad the lockdown bar).

(Or maybe just peak the gaff higher?) (Or maybe just flatten the sail's
draft with the luff and foot tensions?) I'm curious as to what you've tried
that didn't work, even tho the CB version shouldn't have the same problems.

Increasing the rudder area might also help the weather helm. Don't some of
PCB's designs uses a bow "center" board and the rudder to develop all the
lateral area? That kind of rig could be tuned to whatever helm you wanted.

Roger (still building on a 20' lapstrake CB cruising conversion version)
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>


> On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK, when
> not
> pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and extended cabin,
> so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable
> cruiser,
> not a "fast boat."
>
> On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where one
> spends
> the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me and the
> grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much like
> work.
>
> The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it develops
> weather helm in puffs.
>
> There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never sheet the
> mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an offset
> boomkin
> to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self tending
> balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail area up
> forward and down low.
>
> Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air the
> shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets notwithstanding. But
> hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a good
> project. - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>
> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On the plus side, my 20 foot Chebacco sails itself to windward OK, when not
pinched. Mine has optional solid keel, no centerboard, and extended cabin,
so there is lots of room below. Keep in mind this is a comfortable cruiser,
not a "fast boat."

On the minus side, extending the cabin cramped the cockpit, where one spends
the most time. So as configured, it's a boat for two adults, or me and the
grandkids. I could chop the cabin back just a dite. Nah, too much like work.

The hull form makes the helm sensitive to heel angle, and it develops
weather helm in puffs.

There's a bit too much weather helm overall, and since I never sheet the
mizzen in, I've taken to leaving it home. I could install an offset boomkin
to make the mizzen self tending, and add a bowsprit and self tending
balanced jib to fix the weather helm. The boat could use more sail area up
forward and down low.

Still on the topic of weather helm, on a downwind run in heavy air the
shallow rudder just hasn't got enough area, winglets notwithstanding. But
hey, this is a catboat. Hmm, a nice deep kick up rudder might be a good
project. - Bill



_____

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:09 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Chebacco anyone?



Hi folks,
I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
sold and I am itching to build anew.

I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and trailer,
and looks very sharp as well!

does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen don't
sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.

David Jost
boatless in Massachusetts




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "bolger <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
on the web.


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.

I've never gotten a really good reading on how the Chebacco compares
to the Marshall cats on the racecourse? Anyone have any insight? My
guess is the Chebaccos have success downwind and in light air.

Peter

Hi David

I just can't resist it when someone asks about a Chebacco!

Jeez, where to start? I've been sailing mine now for over five years,
and have been totally satisfied. She goes well to windward, will ghost
along on a breath of wind, and is reasonably fast on any point of sail.

My only race experience was the Shipyard Raid this summer.
(http://www.shipyardraid.ca/)There were two Chebaccos and we both did
better in stronger winds, although Chuck's carried a fairly large jib
on a bowsprit that gave him extra speed over me in lower winds. Over
15 knots, though, I think the luff sag cancelled out any advantage. We
had several days of very little wind, so rowing played a big part in
the event. A Chebacco is a heavy boat to row, and our standings
reflect that.

But it was instructive. The Light Schooner sails faster, but it won't
go to windward as well, so has to make more tacks. The modified
(stretched?) Drascombe Peterboat (carries a serious jib) was fast in
all conditions, but both Chebaccos finished ahead of it when the wind
piped up (over 15 knots) from dead ahead. The Peterboat owner disputes
this, since he lost time looking for his hat when it blew away. We've
agreed to meet and do some research into it, with a dozen beer riding
on the result. Of course, then we'll have to settle the respective
merits of Canadian vs US beer....

I suppose you've had a look at www.chebacco.com? There are accounts of
sailing in various conditions in there that might help you. You don't
sail a Chebacco like a sloop with a headsail on a tight headstay, and
if you pinch her she'll just go slower. But when you're in the groove
you can feel her pick right up.

So don't hold back from a Chebacco for fear that it won't sail well.
You won't have any complaints there.

Cheers,

Jamie Orr

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@v...> wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
> sold and I am itching to build anew.
>
> I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and trailer,
> and looks very sharp as well!
>
> does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
> must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen don't
> sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.
>
> David Jost
> boatless in Massachusetts

Hi folks,
I'm back after a short stay in prefab boating. the Marshall cat is
sold and I am itching to build anew.

I am thinking of a 20 foot Chebacco as it is easy to rig and trailer,
and looks very sharp as well!

does anyone know how it sails? After all, windward is a place that
must be gone to eventually despite the old adage of "gentlemen don't
sail to windward" well, if that's the case...I'm no gentleman.

David Jost
boatless in Massachusetts