Re: [bolger] Re: Foam and Oldshoe
> Oldshoe is a cruiser, no? How much wind would it take to push herI get that impression with my Micro. It doesn't take much
> along at hull speed (<4kts?) at her load displacement of 821 lbs?
> More of a problem than light wind may be contrary currents?
>
> Graeme
wind to get the hull up to hull speed, and after that
you cannot go faster.
Didn't know PCB had first done that to Micro. I've noticed at wind
strengths where reefing might be first thought of she seems to
maintain about the same speed under a reef.
Bolger has said more than once that when the motor came on the scene
(and here particularly the designed for outboard) light weather
canvas was quickly done away with. To paraphrase: by ingenuity sail
area can be much increased, but that does nothing for handiness in
stronger winds.
When sailing in any appreciable wind, wouldn't Oldshoe heeled slice
the water with the chine, not bulldoze it with the bow?
Oldshoe is a cruiser, no? How much wind would it take to push her
along at hull speed (<4kts?) at her load displacement of 821 lbs?
More of a problem than light wind may be contrary currents?
Graeme
strengths where reefing might be first thought of she seems to
maintain about the same speed under a reef.
Bolger has said more than once that when the motor came on the scene
(and here particularly the designed for outboard) light weather
canvas was quickly done away with. To paraphrase: by ingenuity sail
area can be much increased, but that does nothing for handiness in
stronger winds.
When sailing in any appreciable wind, wouldn't Oldshoe heeled slice
the water with the chine, not bulldoze it with the bow?
Oldshoe is a cruiser, no? How much wind would it take to push her
along at hull speed (<4kts?) at her load displacement of 821 lbs?
More of a problem than light wind may be contrary currents?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
>
> Don't forget that prior to the Navigator, one of Bolger's first
changes to
> Micro was to add 3' to the mast height of the standard sprit rig
to increase
> the sail area for light wind performance. Seems that this would be
the
> simplest mod for Oldshoe as well, before getting into the
complexity/expense
> of a Chinese Lug rig.
>
> Paul L.
>
> >>Perhaps Bolger might sketch an oversized sail for 'light air'
like
> he did with Micro Navigator, or you could even take the Micro
> Navigator sail dimensions and reduce them by ratio.
>
I've always admired the Oldshoe but I've also been taken by the Catbird
16 by Chesapeake Marine Design. Clyde
Chris Crandall wrote:
16 by Chesapeake Marine Design. Clyde
Chris Crandall wrote:
> > From: john h wright <jhargrovewright2@...>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Subject: Re: The Plot (but not the foam) Thickens
> >
> > Could the barometric air pressure change at a given elevation also
> affect
> > it ? Could a tornado or hurricane eye cause a boat to explode?
>
>
> If a tornado can make a houe explode, it can certainly do it to a boat. It
> was just a year or so ago that I picked up pieces of various neighbors
> houses out of my lawn--no damage to us, other than the loss of use of the
> yard while barefoot for a season.
>
>
> On the Oldshoe: People are missing the #1 issue, discussion of pouring
> lead, notwithstanding. Oldshoe is probably not a very good boat for Long
> Island Sound. Winds are light on the Sound, and the Oldshow is a heavy
> (HEAVY) boat with a square bow. It has its uses, and people who have them
> do love them, under the right circumstances (e.g., Chesapeake).
>
> It's just not a very good choice for the Sound.
>
>
>
> Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
> Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
> I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
>
>
>
>
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Don't forget that prior to the Navigator, one of Bolger's first changes to
Micro was to add 3' to the mast height of the standard sprit rig to increase
the sail area for light wind performance. Seems that this would be the
simplest mod for Oldshoe as well, before getting into the complexity/expense
of a Chinese Lug rig.
Paul L.
Navigator sail dimensions and reduce them by ratio.
Micro was to add 3' to the mast height of the standard sprit rig to increase
the sail area for light wind performance. Seems that this would be the
simplest mod for Oldshoe as well, before getting into the complexity/expense
of a Chinese Lug rig.
Paul L.
>>Perhaps Bolger might sketch an oversized sail for 'light air' likehe did with Micro Navigator, or you could even take the Micro
Navigator sail dimensions and reduce them by ratio.
> It's just not a very good choice for the Sound.Chris, I'm not so sure, and I distrust your reasoning. First, the
sailing conditions on the Chesapeake and LIS are not so very
different. Second, the ballast is only about equal to another
passenger. Third, weight is not the important thing; power/weight
ratio (e.g. sail area/displacement ratio) is the important thing, so a
big rig can save the day. Fourth, sail area / wetted surface ratio is
the REALLY important number for light air, and heavy boats usually
have an advantage over light boats.
For me, an important issue is how far I want to go. The end point for
my Cynthia J. was about at the starting point for my Capri 22. A small
boat interacts with the coast, and a big boat crosses the briney. I
would think Oldshoe would be great in Fischer's Island Sound, the
Thimble Islands, and anywhere west of Norwalk Harbor/Norwalk Islands
on the Connecticut shore. And rivers/harbors in Bridgeport, Milford,
New London, etc. It might not be so good in places such as south of
the bridge at Niantic Bay because the shore is severe and
uninteresting (though it would be dandy north of the bridge).
Peter
On 10/13/05, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
(99.99% of the time), and the air doesn't care about squareness.
Perhaps Bolger might sketch an oversized sail for 'light air' like
he did with Micro Navigator, or you could even take the Micro
Navigator sail dimensions and reduce them by ratio.
A boat with lots of mass should perform better in light air /
motorboat chop conditions, right? That was Bolger's argument
for the high ballast ratio of Monhegan anyway.
> On the Oldshoe: People are missing the #1 issue, discussion of pouringThe square of the bow is up in the air, not the water,
> lead, notwithstanding. Oldshoe is probably not a very good boat for Long
> Island Sound. Winds are light on the Sound, and the Oldshow is a heavy
> (HEAVY) boat with a square bow. It has its uses, and people who have them
> do love them, under the right circumstances (e.g., Chesapeake).
>
> It's just not a very good choice for the Sound.
> Chris Crandall
(99.99% of the time), and the air doesn't care about squareness.
Perhaps Bolger might sketch an oversized sail for 'light air' like
he did with Micro Navigator, or you could even take the Micro
Navigator sail dimensions and reduce them by ratio.
A boat with lots of mass should perform better in light air /
motorboat chop conditions, right? That was Bolger's argument
for the high ballast ratio of Monhegan anyway.
> From: john h wright <jhargrovewright2@...>If a tornado can make a houe explode, it can certainly do it to a boat. It
> Subject: Re: The Plot (but not the foam) Thickens
>
> Could the barometric air pressure change at a given elevation also affect
> it ? Could a tornado or hurricane eye cause a boat to explode?
was just a year or so ago that I picked up pieces of various neighbors
houses out of my lawn--no damage to us, other than the loss of use of the
yard while barefoot for a season.
On the Oldshoe: People are missing the #1 issue, discussion of pouring
lead, notwithstanding. Oldshoe is probably not a very good boat for Long
Island Sound. Winds are light on the Sound, and the Oldshow is a heavy
(HEAVY) boat with a square bow. It has its uses, and people who have them
do love them, under the right circumstances (e.g., Chesapeake).
It's just not a very good choice for the Sound.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.