Re: [bolger] Re: Delaware Trawler Yacht Concept (revisited)
"Nels" <arvent@...> writes:
home-made-sailing-video is still available.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>If anybody is still interested, my very amateurish
> wrote:
> I would suggest that a person view the videos of the Jochems by
> PCB&F or Bjorn Harbo before deciding on any changes to the
> superstracture.
home-made-sailing-video is still available.
> And that schooner rig with all sails set is awesome from any kind ofahrmm... "wrong side"? not all the time.... (blush blush)
> of angle or backlit situation! Not to mention that it sails so
> effortlessly without anyone having to get excited, that it may be
> somewhat boring after awhile. The jib is self-tending and I believe
> Bjorn set the staysail on the "wrong side" and Esmeralda never even
> noticed. Of course the winds were quite light at the time.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
PCB&F or Bjorn Harbo before deciding on any changes to the
superstracture.
After viewing either one it would be very challenging to decide what
needs changing in the design! Like Birdwatcher and Whalewatcher, it's
form follows its function without compromise and this soon becomes
apparent when viewed in it's totality.
And that schooner rig with all sails set is awesome from any kind of
of angle or backlit situation! Not to mention that it sails so
effortlessly without anyone having to get excited, that it may be
somewhat boring after awhile. The jib is self-tending and I believe
Bjorn set the staysail on the "wrong side" and Esmeralda never even
noticed. Of course the winds were quite light at the time.
Nels
wrote:
> So wouldn't you buy Jochems plans and change the superstructure toI would suggest that a person view the videos of the Jochems by
> appear as you wish?
PCB&F or Bjorn Harbo before deciding on any changes to the
superstracture.
After viewing either one it would be very challenging to decide what
needs changing in the design! Like Birdwatcher and Whalewatcher, it's
form follows its function without compromise and this soon becomes
apparent when viewed in it's totality.
And that schooner rig with all sails set is awesome from any kind of
of angle or backlit situation! Not to mention that it sails so
effortlessly without anyone having to get excited, that it may be
somewhat boring after awhile. The jib is self-tending and I believe
Bjorn set the staysail on the "wrong side" and Esmeralda never even
noticed. Of course the winds were quite light at the time.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@c...> wrote:
appear as you wish?
>more
> The more I look at Delaware the more I like it, but true to form, I
> haven't figured out where to put the mast yet. I think it would be
> attractive than Jochems. Clyde.So wouldn't you buy Jochems plans and change the superstructure to
appear as you wish?
The more I look at Delaware the more I like it, but true to form, I
haven't figured out where to put the mast yet. I think it would be more
attractive than Jochems. Clyde.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
haven't figured out where to put the mast yet. I think it would be more
attractive than Jochems. Clyde.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to complete
>
> A Delaware could be built from the published concept study,
> [with a little lofting and/or computer assist, like with Hulls.exe]
What is the design number?
uncleralph123 wrote:
uncleralph123 wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is more information available on this design[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> anywhere? Engine size, interior layout, displacement, etc?
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...> wrote:
> >
> >http://hallman.org/bolger/DieselLaunch.gif
> >
> > Another obscure Bolger that Bruce Hallman has up on his site. This
> > one has a number, so plans should be available!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "uncleralph123" <UncleRalph@a...> wrote:
polite reply, and likely a study plan along with cost for the complete
plans.
May take a day or 2. When you get the info, please post it here!!
Don
>It has a number so a fax or snail mail to Bolger will result in a
> Does anyone know if there is more information available on this design
> anywhere? Engine size, interior layout, displacement, etc?
>
polite reply, and likely a study plan along with cost for the complete
plans.
May take a day or 2. When you get the info, please post it here!!
Don
Does anyone know if there is more information available on this design
anywhere? Engine size, interior layout, displacement, etc?
anywhere? Engine size, interior layout, displacement, etc?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...> wrote:
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/DieselLaunch.gif
>
> Another obscure Bolger that Bruce Hallman has up on his site. This
> one has a number, so plans should be available!
>Doh!!! Nice catch Sam and good eyes Nels. Anyway she is a VERY
> I believe what you see as 8's are actually 2's.
>
> Length 12 meters by 2.44 meters beam.
>
nice design, getting away from the "chubby" look of the FMS2.
I've got to think this is a very very nice handling and riding
displacement hull still having minimal draft for the handling and
ride.
The fwd cockpit does provide a safer spot from which to handle
anchors. Reducing its size to that of a chain locker, and moving
the bulkhead fwd would permit one to handle lines through a hatch
from the berth, understanding it means some wet bedding if one is in
a terrible hurry.
Bolger's genius beautifully expressed.
Don Schultz
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
Length 12 meters by 2.44 meters beam.
I have seen many Maritime lobster boats with steadying sails such as
this one and also the Bolger cat-yawls can use their mizzens for the
same purpose. Keeping the boat steady at anchor and for quartering
into head seas without having to over apply the rudder.
I would think a small square sail in the bow would help when going
downwind maybe? Dragging a bucket at the same time:-)
Nels
wrote:
>I believe what you see as 8's are actually 2's.
> Wow--I have never seen this one before. This is a
> great design. Despite what it says on the sheet, she
> can't be 8.44 meters in beam--that would make her near
> 28' wide.
> She looks to me to be log and narrow--maybe 35' x 7'?
> Anyway, she looks just about like the mod. of the
> motorsailer I have been looking for.
> --- donschultz8275 <donschultz@i...> wrote:
Length 12 meters by 2.44 meters beam.
I have seen many Maritime lobster boats with steadying sails such as
this one and also the Bolger cat-yawls can use their mizzens for the
same purpose. Keeping the boat steady at anchor and for quartering
into head seas without having to over apply the rudder.
I would think a small square sail in the bow would help when going
downwind maybe? Dragging a bucket at the same time:-)
Nels
Wow--I have never seen this one before. This is a
great design. Despite what it says on the sheet, she
can't be 8.44 meters in beam--that would make her near
28' wide.
She looks to me to be log and narrow--maybe 35' x 7'?
Anyway, she looks just about like the mod. of the
motorsailer I have been looking for.
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
great design. Despite what it says on the sheet, she
can't be 8.44 meters in beam--that would make her near
28' wide.
She looks to me to be log and narrow--maybe 35' x 7'?
Anyway, she looks just about like the mod. of the
motorsailer I have been looking for.
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
>http://hallman.org/bolger/DieselLaunch.gif__________________________________
>
> Another obscure Bolger that Bruce Hallman has up on
> his site. This
> one has a number, so plans should be available!
>
> Seems to me that a set of these plans would be
> helpful to any
> considering building a Delaware class cruiser. She
> appears to be 18
> meters long and 8.44 meters wide, drawing .74 meter.
>
>
> The stack would conduct cooling air, noise, and
> exhaust gasses up up
> and away. The cabin could include a Minnesota
> outhouse. I'm really
> partial to the Minne' cabin design, though I also
> find Samuel
> Clyde's cabin about as sensible as a 30 footer can
> get, and I enjoy
> the quasi military lines.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Clyde, I thought long and hard about changing the
> > dimensions of the Alaska Cargo Boat or Small
> > Motorsailer. I really want a boat of maximum
> > trailerable dimensions (say 30 x 8.5) and while I
> am
> > willing to redimension a small boat, there is just
> too
> > much labor involved in a thirty foooter for me to
> be
> > confident that I my rejiggering wold lead to a
> decent
> > result. In any event, I'll be busy/satisfied with
> > rebuilding and using my salmon troller over the
> next
> > few years.
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
http://hallman.org/bolger/DieselLaunch.gif
Another obscure Bolger that Bruce Hallman has up on his site. This
one has a number, so plans should be available!
Seems to me that a set of these plans would be helpful to any
considering building a Delaware class cruiser. She appears to be 18
meters long and 8.44 meters wide, drawing .74 meter.
The stack would conduct cooling air, noise, and exhaust gasses up up
and away. The cabin could include a Minnesota outhouse. I'm really
partial to the Minne' cabin design, though I also find Samuel
Clyde's cabin about as sensible as a 30 footer can get, and I enjoy
the quasi military lines.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
Another obscure Bolger that Bruce Hallman has up on his site. This
one has a number, so plans should be available!
Seems to me that a set of these plans would be helpful to any
considering building a Delaware class cruiser. She appears to be 18
meters long and 8.44 meters wide, drawing .74 meter.
The stack would conduct cooling air, noise, and exhaust gasses up up
and away. The cabin could include a Minnesota outhouse. I'm really
partial to the Minne' cabin design, though I also find Samuel
Clyde's cabin about as sensible as a 30 footer can get, and I enjoy
the quasi military lines.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
>
> Clyde, I thought long and hard about changing the
> dimensions of the Alaska Cargo Boat or Small
> Motorsailer. I really want a boat of maximum
> trailerable dimensions (say 30 x 8.5) and while I am
> willing to redimension a small boat, there is just too
> much labor involved in a thirty foooter for me to be
> confident that I my rejiggering wold lead to a decent
> result. In any event, I'll be busy/satisfied with
> rebuilding and using my salmon troller over the next
> few years.
Clyde, I thought long and hard about changing the
dimensions of the Alaska Cargo Boat or Small
Motorsailer. I really want a boat of maximum
trailerable dimensions (say 30 x 8.5) and while I am
willing to redimension a small boat, there is just too
much labor involved in a thirty foooter for me to be
confident that I my rejiggering wold lead to a decent
result. In any event, I'll be busy/satisfied with
rebuilding and using my salmon troller over the next
few years. That LC 24 is a neat little cruiser as is,
but too small for my purposes.
--- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
dimensions of the Alaska Cargo Boat or Small
Motorsailer. I really want a boat of maximum
trailerable dimensions (say 30 x 8.5) and while I am
willing to redimension a small boat, there is just too
much labor involved in a thirty foooter for me to be
confident that I my rejiggering wold lead to a decent
result. In any event, I'll be busy/satisfied with
rebuilding and using my salmon troller over the next
few years. That LC 24 is a neat little cruiser as is,
but too small for my purposes.
--- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
> Sam, I have also been thinking about Delaware, but<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> I think you could do
> the same with the Alaska Cargo Boat, or even the
> GlenL Noyo Trawler.
> Extend or otherwise build cabin rather than cargo
> hold. Also perhaps you
> could lengthen LC 24 from Ches Marine Design. The
> Alaska and the LC24
> have the box keel to hold your diesel. Clyde
>
>
> Sam Glasscock wrote:
>
> > Wrong, Bruce. The 16' Gloucester Gull dory is
> >
> > *bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >__________________________________
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Sam, I have also been thinking about Delaware, but I think you could do
the same with the Alaska Cargo Boat, or even the GlenL Noyo Trawler.
Extend or otherwise build cabin rather than cargo hold. Also perhaps you
could lengthen LC 24 from Ches Marine Design. The Alaska and the LC24
have the box keel to hold your diesel. Clyde
Sam Glasscock wrote:
the same with the Alaska Cargo Boat, or even the GlenL Noyo Trawler.
Extend or otherwise build cabin rather than cargo hold. Also perhaps you
could lengthen LC 24 from Ches Marine Design. The Alaska and the LC24
have the box keel to hold your diesel. Clyde
Sam Glasscock wrote:
> Wrong, Bruce. The 16' Gloucester Gull dory is[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:There has been talk here at least about the sail rig, and metal
> Black Skimmer??
construction. Anyways, PCB chopped and changed away on Black Skimmer
himself to produce Martha Jane.
Graeme
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Z, just 10:
AS19 --> garvey bow
Bobcat --> Catfish
Brother Bill's Chesapeake skipjack, via Mouser, through Gypsy, to
Cartoon 40 --> Big Cartoon 40
Chebacco Boats
Micro --> Long Micro
Mouser --> reflections on then and now
Nymph --> Nymph Cubed
Query -->? ? --> Windsprint
Tarantula --> Tri Tarantula
Zephyr <-- Teal <-- Surf <-- Elegant Punt
Sometimes done after decades, sometimes after the prototype,
sometimes before the ink has dried on a cartoon. Bolger says his
only true innovation is Birdwatcher yet even that triumph is a
grafting of his flare sided, double ender, simplified construction
sharpie under something else (maybe lifeboat topsides plus
inspiration).... Then they went and 'birdwatcher-two-ed' it. ;)
Graeme
> > these odd-Probably not. The master leads by example. From many instances A to
> > ball marriages
> We are an odd ball cabal, for sure...
> Can you find one group discussion thread of
> a Bolger design that has not digressed into
> a discussion of how it could be 'improved'?
Z, just 10:
AS19 --> garvey bow
Bobcat --> Catfish
Brother Bill's Chesapeake skipjack, via Mouser, through Gypsy, to
Cartoon 40 --> Big Cartoon 40
Chebacco Boats
Micro --> Long Micro
Mouser --> reflections on then and now
Nymph --> Nymph Cubed
Query -->? ? --> Windsprint
Tarantula --> Tri Tarantula
Zephyr <-- Teal <-- Surf <-- Elegant Punt
Sometimes done after decades, sometimes after the prototype,
sometimes before the ink has dried on a cartoon. Bolger says his
only true innovation is Birdwatcher yet even that triumph is a
grafting of his flare sided, double ender, simplified construction
sharpie under something else (maybe lifeboat topsides plus
inspiration).... Then they went and 'birdwatcher-two-ed' it. ;)
Graeme
Black Skimmer??
Bruce Hallman wrote:
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>these odd-
>>ball marriages
>>
>>
>
>We are an odd ball cabal, for sure...
>
>Can you find one group discussion thread of
>a Bolger design that has not digressed into
>a discussion of how it could be 'improved'?
>
>
>
I hate to pop a bubble but the commercial trollers have had a great
couple of years, in AK the permit price has tripled. A troller that is
for sale cheep is because its no longer economically viable. I can't
speak for the Washington market, but any wooden boat that has not been
maintained in the Pacific NW goes down hill fast. You can find old hulls
that are aesthetically worth salvaging but not economically.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
couple of years, in AK the permit price has tripled. A troller that is
for sale cheep is because its no longer economically viable. I can't
speak for the Washington market, but any wooden boat that has not been
maintained in the Pacific NW goes down hill fast. You can find old hulls
that are aesthetically worth salvaging but not economically.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>bought an old strip-planked Salmon troller with a[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>I hear that Salmon trollers can be bought for a song,
>and certainly are a great way to get an economical cruiser.
>
>I still think that, with just a little 'lofting' and
>a small pile of 1/2" plywood, you could build a
>perfectly serviceable Delaware from the lines
>published in MAIB.
>
>Hulls.exe did the lofting for the panels for that
>cardboard model, (plus sissors and tape),
>in about ninty minutes, start to finish. Similar
>could be done with 1/2" plywood, during one
>winter, I bet.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phil Bolger has a fairly exhaustive (pun intended)All true, but since then he has designed a small fleet of boats with
> critique of outboard wells in BWOAM. Among other
> things he was almost killed by exhaust gasses from an
> outboard running in a well... He thinks the place for
> an outboard is, not to put too fine a point on it,
> outboard.
wells. I'd like to hear his explanation. Perhaps, "The market demands
it."
A boat of the size being discussed requires a major investment in money and
a tremendous investment of time. I am too adverse to risk to gamble that
whatever I cobbled up would look and act like I hope it would. I have found
that what looks good in drawings may look quite different in 3
dimensions--usually to my disappointment. If you must mix and match
features from various designs, I suggest that you build a model of your
proposed design and eyeball it from all angles with your eye close and far.
Maybe it will please you; maybe not.
John T
a tremendous investment of time. I am too adverse to risk to gamble that
whatever I cobbled up would look and act like I hope it would. I have found
that what looks good in drawings may look quite different in 3
dimensions--usually to my disappointment. If you must mix and match
features from various designs, I suggest that you build a model of your
proposed design and eyeball it from all angles with your eye close and far.
Maybe it will please you; maybe not.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:07 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Delaware Trawler Yacht Concept a quicker way to the
water?
> Peter makes many good points and from a more experienced perspective
> than I can offer.
>
> I'll stand by my thoughts re "free handing" a cabin onto Topaz. I
> stressed doing it to that hull because of the Topaz Spyder version
> along w' the glasshouse on the same hull. I addition, I think the
> large area of the glass house establishes the fitness of the hull to
> support the windage of a Delaware cabin.
>
> A similar example in a much smaller boat is the Cabin Clam
> Skiff/Work Skiff (Payson). Same hull open and glass house. One
> could put a cuddy on the Work Skiff and reasonably expect success.
> Such a change may make more sense than adding a shoe and beefier
> scantlings to a Michalak AF-4 to have a stronger boat capable of
> handly 40hp.
>
> It is a much more likely to succeed thought than similar schemes
> I've sketched for Idaho. I was careful to stress protected
> conditions for a modified Tennesee.
>
> Lastly, someone suggested starting w' Jochem's Schooner plans. I
> guess I wonder how a hull designed to carry water ballast would work
> out. I would not water ballast a power version at first, and would
> consider it not good to have to haul around 500 lbs of water all the
> time.
>
> If first stumbled upon Bolger when looking for a really simple boxy
> river cruiser and found Martha Jane. I first thought to build a
> power only version for some river cruising and trailer camping, but
> was stalled by the water ballast. I then learned more about all
> the designs Bolger has created.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
> wrote:
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
>> wrote:
>> > In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.
>> > Bolger has a number of hull designs in the 22-30 ft range
> capable
>> of
>> > carrying the Delaware cabin.
>> >
>
>
>> I like Don's hubris but,just for discussions sake,consider the
>> following;
>>
>> Unless you have a trained eye or skills as a designer, you may be
>> letting yourself in for some nasty surprises while adapting the
>> superstructure of one hull onto the hull of a different design.Not
>> that it cannot be done,but you gotta know what you are doing in
>> order to provide for all the neccessary changes/adjustments to
>> respect the "original" hulls dynamic features. A stroll through a
>> large boat yard or two will often reveal such creations,gone
> wrong,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005
>
>
Phil Bolger has a fairly exhastive (pun intended)
critique of outboard wells in BWOAM. Among other
things he was almost killed by exhaust gasses from an
outboard running in a well... He thinks the place for
an outboard is, not to put too fine a point on it,
outboard.
His criticism is in the write up of..."Slicer." He
starts out his critique by saying, "I do not like
inboard wells." The word "not" is italicised.
We all agree that Phil is a pretty smart cookie, so
perhaps we should pay attention...
Phil Smith
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
critique of outboard wells in BWOAM. Among other
things he was almost killed by exhaust gasses from an
outboard running in a well... He thinks the place for
an outboard is, not to put too fine a point on it,
outboard.
His criticism is in the write up of..."Slicer." He
starts out his critique by saying, "I do not like
inboard wells." The word "not" is italicised.
We all agree that Phil is a pretty smart cookie, so
perhaps we should pay attention...
Phil Smith
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> > and. . . .
>
> ...she needs an inboard well for the outboard motor,
> don't ya think?
>
Peter makes many good points and from a more experienced perspective
than I can offer.
I'll stand by my thoughts re "free handing" a cabin onto Topaz. I
stressed doing it to that hull because of the Topaz Spyder version
along w' the glasshouse on the same hull. I addition, I think the
large area of the glass house establishes the fitness of the hull to
support the windage of a Delaware cabin.
A similar example in a much smaller boat is the Cabin Clam
Skiff/Work Skiff (Payson). Same hull open and glass house. One
could put a cuddy on the Work Skiff and reasonably expect success.
Such a change may make more sense than adding a shoe and beefier
scantlings to a Michalak AF-4 to have a stronger boat capable of
handly 40hp.
It is a much more likely to succeed thought than similar schemes
I've sketched for Idaho. I was careful to stress protected
conditions for a modified Tennesee.
Lastly, someone suggested starting w' Jochem's Schooner plans. I
guess I wonder how a hull designed to carry water ballast would work
out. I would not water ballast a power version at first, and would
consider it not good to have to haul around 500 lbs of water all the
time.
If first stumbled upon Bolger when looking for a really simple boxy
river cruiser and found Martha Jane. I first thought to build a
power only version for some river cruising and trailer camping, but
was stalled by the water ballast. I then learned more about all
the designs Bolger has created.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
than I can offer.
I'll stand by my thoughts re "free handing" a cabin onto Topaz. I
stressed doing it to that hull because of the Topaz Spyder version
along w' the glasshouse on the same hull. I addition, I think the
large area of the glass house establishes the fitness of the hull to
support the windage of a Delaware cabin.
A similar example in a much smaller boat is the Cabin Clam
Skiff/Work Skiff (Payson). Same hull open and glass house. One
could put a cuddy on the Work Skiff and reasonably expect success.
Such a change may make more sense than adding a shoe and beefier
scantlings to a Michalak AF-4 to have a stronger boat capable of
handly 40hp.
It is a much more likely to succeed thought than similar schemes
I've sketched for Idaho. I was careful to stress protected
conditions for a modified Tennesee.
Lastly, someone suggested starting w' Jochem's Schooner plans. I
guess I wonder how a hull designed to carry water ballast would work
out. I would not water ballast a power version at first, and would
consider it not good to have to haul around 500 lbs of water all the
time.
If first stumbled upon Bolger when looking for a really simple boxy
river cruiser and found Martha Jane. I first thought to build a
power only version for some river cruising and trailer camping, but
was stalled by the water ballast. I then learned more about all
the designs Bolger has created.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
>capable
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
> wrote:
> > In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.
> > Bolger has a number of hull designs in the 22-30 ft range
> ofwrong,
> > carrying the Delaware cabin.
> >
> I like Don's hubris but,just for discussions sake,consider the
> following;
>
> Unless you have a trained eye or skills as a designer, you may be
> letting yourself in for some nasty surprises while adapting the
> superstructure of one hull onto the hull of a different design.Not
> that it cannot be done,but you gotta know what you are doing in
> order to provide for all the neccessary changes/adjustments to
> respect the "original" hulls dynamic features. A stroll through a
> large boat yard or two will often reveal such creations,gone
> and. . . ....she needs an inboard well for the outboard motor, don't ya think?
Wrong, Bruce. The 16' Gloucester Gull dory is
unimprovable. Although if you streched her out to
20', raised the freeboard and half-deck her, she would
make a nice little sloop. She would need a deep
daggerboard, better yet a fin keel with a bulb to hold
her up, and. . . .
Sam
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
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unimprovable. Although if you streched her out to
20', raised the freeboard and half-deck her, she would
make a nice little sloop. She would need a deep
daggerboard, better yet a fin keel with a bulb to hold
her up, and. . . .
Sam
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> > these odd-__________________________________
> > ball marriages
>
> We are an odd ball cabal, for sure...
>
> Can you find one group discussion thread of
> a Bolger design that has not digressed into
> a discussion of how it could be 'improved'?
>
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> these odd-We are an odd ball cabal, for sure...
> ball marriages
Can you find one group discussion thread of
a Bolger design that has not digressed into
a discussion of how it could be 'improved'?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
Several
following;
Unless you have a trained eye or skills as a designer, you may be
letting yourself in for some nasty surprises while adapting the
superstructure of one hull onto the hull of a different design.Not
that it cannot be done,but you gotta know what you are doing in
order to provide for all the neccessary changes/adjustments to
respect the "original" hulls dynamic features. A stroll through a
large boat yard or two will often reveal such creations,gone wrong,
which even an un-trained eye will wince at :-)
For an amateur builder,under-taking a largish building project can
sometimes be daunting enough without introducing the added stress of
playing designer while simultainously kissing any
help/support/encouragement from the designer good-bye.That in itself
is a shame since you have already paid for at least one of the plans
and the support of the designer in the first place.:-)
In a best case scenario,let us say the operation goes well,what do
you call it,a Bolger/Smith design? Since it is a large boat,surely
at some point you would like to have it insured which will require
(at least up here) a marine survey prior to the insurance company
issuing any kind of coverage.Will the "Smith" part of the design
stand up to scrutiny and be supported by drawings/plans?.Has
the"Bolger" part of the design "approved" or "accepted" the "Smith"
part? Of course, an insurance company may issue coverage
nevertheless and you will only truly discover the significance of
the relationship between the "Bolger" part and the "Smith" part when
attempting to make a claim........!
And finally, I really do not think Bolger approved or approves of
those bastardized Tennessees from the antipods,however nice they may
appear to some folks eyes.
That's it for my part of discussion,as it were but I would like to
state my opinion that it is sometimes precisely because of these odd-
ball marriages of one designers hull form with another designers
cabin,especially when they come out looking like something only a
mother could love and the father died laughing at, that ultimately
bestows the lowly public opinion upon"all" amateur built boats as
being somehow inferior to a production effort.Shame really,as there
certainly are some "professional" amateurs out there and
more "amateur" professionals then we dare admit.
In the end,I say "vivre la difference" ! A well built professional
boat can kill us just a easily as an amateur abomination :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,feeling the certain chill in the air which can only
spell WINTER and some fun times in the boat shed :-)...from along
the shores of the St.Lawrence.................
wrote:
> In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.of
> Bolger has a number of hull designs in the 22-30 ft range capable
> carrying the Delaware cabin.is
>
> One of the most capable designs Bolger has completed in this class
> Topaz. One could buy Topaz plans and build the Topaz from thesuperstructure
> gunwales down. The Spyder version (included with Topaz plans)
> proves the hull can be built this way. One could then figure out
> their own superstructure configuration from the Delaware cartoons,
> and even consider buying plans for another boat with a
> and interior plan like you seek and adapt it to the Topaz Spyderhull.
Several
> Austrailian river cruisers based on Tennesee have suchsuperstructure.
>acquired
> So, don't wait. By the time the hull is 3D, you will have
> skills and confidence necessary to move ahead w' the cabin. Youcan
> mock parts up with cardboard and tape till you have a workingI like Don's hubris but,just for discussions sake,consider the
> template. I remember a neighbor of mine building a slid in camper
> for a flatbed truck using the cardboard mockup method. His camper
> was curved to reduce drag at highway speeds. Worked out well.\
>
following;
Unless you have a trained eye or skills as a designer, you may be
letting yourself in for some nasty surprises while adapting the
superstructure of one hull onto the hull of a different design.Not
that it cannot be done,but you gotta know what you are doing in
order to provide for all the neccessary changes/adjustments to
respect the "original" hulls dynamic features. A stroll through a
large boat yard or two will often reveal such creations,gone wrong,
which even an un-trained eye will wince at :-)
For an amateur builder,under-taking a largish building project can
sometimes be daunting enough without introducing the added stress of
playing designer while simultainously kissing any
help/support/encouragement from the designer good-bye.That in itself
is a shame since you have already paid for at least one of the plans
and the support of the designer in the first place.:-)
In a best case scenario,let us say the operation goes well,what do
you call it,a Bolger/Smith design? Since it is a large boat,surely
at some point you would like to have it insured which will require
(at least up here) a marine survey prior to the insurance company
issuing any kind of coverage.Will the "Smith" part of the design
stand up to scrutiny and be supported by drawings/plans?.Has
the"Bolger" part of the design "approved" or "accepted" the "Smith"
part? Of course, an insurance company may issue coverage
nevertheless and you will only truly discover the significance of
the relationship between the "Bolger" part and the "Smith" part when
attempting to make a claim........!
And finally, I really do not think Bolger approved or approves of
those bastardized Tennessees from the antipods,however nice they may
appear to some folks eyes.
That's it for my part of discussion,as it were but I would like to
state my opinion that it is sometimes precisely because of these odd-
ball marriages of one designers hull form with another designers
cabin,especially when they come out looking like something only a
mother could love and the father died laughing at, that ultimately
bestows the lowly public opinion upon"all" amateur built boats as
being somehow inferior to a production effort.Shame really,as there
certainly are some "professional" amateurs out there and
more "amateur" professionals then we dare admit.
In the end,I say "vivre la difference" ! A well built professional
boat can kill us just a easily as an amateur abomination :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,feeling the certain chill in the air which can only
spell WINTER and some fun times in the boat shed :-)...from along
the shores of the St.Lawrence.................
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Also Bolger mentions that working drawing finalization may be
influenced by how much interest is shown in the design and he welcomes
comments and suggestions. Therefor if one is interested they might
want to make him aware of that.
Nels
> Eyeballing the displacement in Hull.exe, I seeIn the MAIB article it is listed at 4900 pounds.
> that the reasonable displacement of Delaware
> max's out at about 4000 or 4500.
>
Also Bolger mentions that working drawing finalization may be
influenced by how much interest is shown in the design and he welcomes
comments and suggestions. Therefor if one is interested they might
want to make him aware of that.
Nels
On 10/19/05, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...> wrote:
PCB lists Topaz displacement as 4200 lbs with
9" of draft, and 5600lbs with 11 inches of draft.
Eyeballing the displacement in Hull.exe, I see
that the reasonable displacement of Delaware
max's out at about 4000 or 4500.
> Can Topaz really be expected to safely carry the same weight of fuel, gear,FWIW, Delaware is a bit smaller than Topaz.
> and stores that Delaware can handle? Just because something has good
> seakeeping characteristics at light displacement does not mean it will still
> have them when heavily laden.
PCB lists Topaz displacement as 4200 lbs with
9" of draft, and 5600lbs with 11 inches of draft.
Eyeballing the displacement in Hull.exe, I see
that the reasonable displacement of Delaware
max's out at about 4000 or 4500.
Bruce, you are right, Delaware is dead simple and
could be built today, as your model demonstrates (and
I very much like the shape in 3-D). I wanted the plan
modified to carry the diesel down in a box,
Seabright-type keel, as in the Small Motor Sailor, and
while such a keel is easy enough to design, I would
want PB&F to locate things for me. This salmon
troller is not a work boat; it is a "Monterrey
Clipper" built by Cheoy Lee back in the early sixties,
a "troller yacht" (as George Beuhler, but not Cheoy
Lee, would call it). It is an incredibly beautiful
hull shape, needing topside repair, and the whole
thing might well end badly, as do most of the crushes
developed by men of my advancing age. It will be
strange to run a boat built by someone else. . . Sam
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
could be built today, as your model demonstrates (and
I very much like the shape in 3-D). I wanted the plan
modified to carry the diesel down in a box,
Seabright-type keel, as in the Small Motor Sailor, and
while such a keel is easy enough to design, I would
want PB&F to locate things for me. This salmon
troller is not a work boat; it is a "Monterrey
Clipper" built by Cheoy Lee back in the early sixties,
a "troller yacht" (as George Beuhler, but not Cheoy
Lee, would call it). It is an incredibly beautiful
hull shape, needing topside repair, and the whole
thing might well end badly, as do most of the crushes
developed by men of my advancing age. It will be
strange to run a boat built by someone else. . . Sam
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> > bought an old strip-planked Salmon troller with a__________________________________
>
> I hear that Salmon trollers can be bought for a
> song,
> and certainly are a great way to get an economical
> cruiser.
>
> I still think that, with just a little 'lofting' and
> a small pile of 1/2" plywood, you could build a
> perfectly serviceable Delaware from the lines
> published in MAIB.
>
> Hulls.exe did the lofting for the panels for that
> cardboard model, (plus sissors and tape),
> in about ninty minutes, start to finish. Similar
> could be done with 1/2" plywood, during one
> winter, I bet.
>
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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Can Topaz really be expected to safely carry the same weight of fuel, gear,
and stores that Delaware can handle? Just because something has good
seakeeping characteristics at light displacement does not mean it will still
have them when heavily laden.
and stores that Delaware can handle? Just because something has good
seakeeping characteristics at light displacement does not mean it will still
have them when heavily laden.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Delaware Trawler Yacht Concept a quicker way to
the water?
> > In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.
> >
> > The thing so attractive about Delaware is the
> > handsome cabin
> > superstructure and practical interior layout on a
> > non-planing hull.
> >
> > One of the most capable designs Bolger has completed
> > in this class is
> > Topaz. One could buy Topaz plans and build the
> > Topaz from the
> > gunwales down. The Spyder version (included with
> > Topaz plans)
> > proves the hull can be built this way.
> > Power it with a 25 hp engine and you've got the boat
> > you want. Topaz
> > is a proven design, and a beautiful hull capable of
> > comfortable
> > cruising and handling big water. Bolger uses
> > exactly the same design
> > on his Sitka Explorer, intended for coastal cruising
> > in cold climates.
> >
> I have been thinking along these lines. The easiest
> way to get started on the Delaware may be to use the
> hull from the Jochems, on which Delaware is based.
> The Topaz would work, and would give low planning
> speeds, at the expense of somewhat less pleasant ride
> in a chop due to her flat run.
> I had wanted Delaware because the Topaz (in the
> glass cabin version) is not really fit for offshore
> work, although Bolger has said she would be OK for
> pick-your-day crossings to the Bahamas. I have just
> bought an old strip-planked Salmon troller with a
> sound hull (and rotten superstructure) to rebuild,
> rather than waiting on the Delaware (for now) or
> trying to modify the Jochems. I can't keep two 31'
> boats on my lot, so my Topaz Spat will be for sale
> after the first of the year--I'll post her on Bolger
> for Sale--for the value of the trailer and 50 horse
> four stroke, if anyone is interested. She is a great
> boat and has put a lot of water under her keel in the
> past few years. Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> bought an old strip-planked Salmon troller with aI hear that Salmon trollers can be bought for a song,
and certainly are a great way to get an economical cruiser.
I still think that, with just a little 'lofting' and
a small pile of 1/2" plywood, you could build a
perfectly serviceable Delaware from the lines
published in MAIB.
Hulls.exe did the lofting for the panels for that
cardboard model, (plus sissors and tape),
in about ninty minutes, start to finish. Similar
could be done with 1/2" plywood, during one
winter, I bet.
> In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.I have been thinking along these lines. The easiest
>
> The thing so attractive about Delaware is the
> handsome cabin
> superstructure and practical interior layout on a
> non-planing hull.
>
> One of the most capable designs Bolger has completed
> in this class is
> Topaz. One could buy Topaz plans and build the
> Topaz from the
> gunwales down. The Spyder version (included with
> Topaz plans)
> proves the hull can be built this way.
> Power it with a 25 hp engine and you've got the boat
> you want. Topaz
> is a proven design, and a beautiful hull capable of
> comfortable
> cruising and handling big water. Bolger uses
> exactly the same design
> on his Sitka Explorer, intended for coastal cruising
> in cold climates.
>
way to get started on the Delaware may be to use the
hull from the Jochems, on which Delaware is based.
The Topaz would work, and would give low planning
speeds, at the expense of somewhat less pleasant ride
in a chop due to her flat run.
I had wanted Delaware because the Topaz (in the
glass cabin version) is not really fit for offshore
work, although Bolger has said she would be OK for
pick-your-day crossings to the Bahamas. I have just
bought an old strip-planked Salmon troller with a
sound hull (and rotten superstructure) to rebuild,
rather than waiting on the Delaware (for now) or
trying to modify the Jochems. I can't keep two 31'
boats on my lot, so my Topaz Spat will be for sale
after the first of the year--I'll post her on Bolger
for Sale--for the value of the trailer and 50 horse
four stroke, if anyone is interested. She is a great
boat and has put a lot of water under her keel in the
past few years. Sam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "denisnh" <denisnh@y...> wrote:
.......... Is there any news on Delaware?.........
-----------------------------
In my opinion, don't wait for Delaware.
The thing so attractive about Delaware is the handsome cabin
superstructure and practical interior layout on a non-planing hull.
It is much more attractive to me than the glass house approach of the
original Topaz, Windemere, etc.
As Bolger describes it, a 25 hp 4 stroke w' a big prop will drive it
well with sufficent reserve power for bigger seas. The main problem
w' Delaware is that it is not a complete design.
Bolger has a number of hull designs in the 22-30 ft range capable of
carrying the Delaware cabin.
One of the most capable designs Bolger has completed in this class is
Topaz. One could buy Topaz plans and build the Topaz from the
gunwales down. The Spyder version (included with Topaz plans)
proves the hull can be built this way. One could then figure out
their own superstructure configuration from the Delaware cartoons,
and even consider buying plans for another boat with a superstructure
and interior plan like you seek and adapt it to the Topaz Spyder hull.
Power it with a 25 hp engine and you've got the boat you want. Topaz
is a proven design, and a beautiful hull capable of comfortable
cruising and handling big water. Bolger uses exactly the same design
on his Sitka Explorer, intended for coastal cruising in cold climates.
A shorter, broader suspect is Retriever, which is a big
Microtrawler. This design has much stability, and will handle river,
lake, and conservative coastal cruising readily, and it is proven it
will handle significant superstructure.
Yes, it will take extra time to build the interior and superstructure
without plans, but that will likely be more than offset by waiting
for PB&F to finish the design you think you want.
If one wished to build such a boat for truely protected water
cruising, IE rivers, the Tennesee hull could be used. Several
Austrailian river cruisers based on Tennesee have such superstructure.
So, don't wait. By the time the hull is 3D, you will have acquired
skills and confidence necessary to move ahead w' the cabin. You can
mock parts up with cardboard and tape till you have a working
template. I remember a neighbor of mine building a slid in camper
for a flatbed truck using the cardboard mockup method. His camper
was curved to reduce drag at highway speeds. Worked out well.\
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "denisnh" <denisnh@y...> wrote:
Not sure where you are located and how much ice you are concerned
about. During my visit to Norway a year ago I had the opportunity to
see many small wooden fishing boats in the thirty foot range (10
Meters) and several of them had copper clad bottoms up to slightly
above the LWL - higher in the bow section.
I assumed that the copper cladding was mainly to prevent marine
growth but when talking to the owners I was informed that the copper
pr was mainly for ice protection. These boats are built of traditional
carvel construction with no glass or epoxy being used. Many are bright
finished double enders and are essentialy motorsailers with a pilot
house. Perhaps Bjorn Harbo can add some commentary to my observations.
He is the owner of a Jochens Schooner located in Oslo.
This makes me wonder if that is a viable alternative to steel since it
also protects the hull from marine growth, abrasion from ice, and also
is perhaps less prone to electolysis than steel?
My question is - can a copper bottom be bedded into glass/epoxy
encapsulated plywood?
Another alternative is to add carbon powder to the exterior epoxy
coatings. This has been used for years on cedar strip canoes for
whitewater use and is very abrasive resistant. This might be a viable
alternative if the boat is to be used in fresh water lakes where there
is the added threat of rocky reefs. Carbon powdered bottoms are also
very low resistance coatings.
Nels
>Hi Denis,
> As for building in steel, you bring up some good points. But a boat
> that size would not be very portable to me anyway (I don't own a to
> vehicle) and steel tends to handle ice better than wood. Of course
> there's always the possibility of cladding the boat with something
> tough below the waterline to help protect it.
> Thanks,
> Denis
Not sure where you are located and how much ice you are concerned
about. During my visit to Norway a year ago I had the opportunity to
see many small wooden fishing boats in the thirty foot range (10
Meters) and several of them had copper clad bottoms up to slightly
above the LWL - higher in the bow section.
I assumed that the copper cladding was mainly to prevent marine
growth but when talking to the owners I was informed that the copper
pr was mainly for ice protection. These boats are built of traditional
carvel construction with no glass or epoxy being used. Many are bright
finished double enders and are essentialy motorsailers with a pilot
house. Perhaps Bjorn Harbo can add some commentary to my observations.
He is the owner of a Jochens Schooner located in Oslo.
This makes me wonder if that is a viable alternative to steel since it
also protects the hull from marine growth, abrasion from ice, and also
is perhaps less prone to electolysis than steel?
My question is - can a copper bottom be bedded into glass/epoxy
encapsulated plywood?
Another alternative is to add carbon powder to the exterior epoxy
coatings. This has been used for years on cedar strip canoes for
whitewater use and is very abrasive resistant. This might be a viable
alternative if the boat is to be used in fresh water lakes where there
is the added threat of rocky reefs. Carbon powdered bottoms are also
very low resistance coatings.
Nels
As far as price, I don't know. I think PB&F's plans
for boats of this size tend to run around $300. I
just sent in $300 against the plans, when completed.
Sam
--- denisnh <denisnh@...> wrote:
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for boats of this size tend to run around $300. I
just sent in $300 against the plans, when completed.
Sam
--- denisnh <denisnh@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the update, Sam. Can you tell us how__________________________________
> much the plans are?
>
> You bring up an important point about commissioning
> a design:
> delivery time. It must be very frustrating to wait
> so long for a
> design to be completed. Phil Bolger is a great guy,
> though, and I
> imagine he won't move on to a new project until he's
> certain the one
> he's working on is just right. Poor Sue. 2 1/2
> years?!?!
>
> As for building in steel, you bring up some good
> points. But a boat
> that size would not be very portable to me anyway (I
> don't own a to
> vehicle) and steel tends to handle ice better than
> wood. Of course
> there's always the possibility of cladding the boat
> with something
> tough below the waterline to help protect it.
>
> For some reason, I have trouble visualizing just
> what the boat would
> look like in real life. They always seem to look
> different than I
> expect. The Delaware is a great looking boat in the
> "cartoons",
> though. I'm seriously thinking of this design...
>
> Thanks,
> Denis
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I ordered a set of plans for Delaware, as and when
> > completed. I asked him about stretching her out
> to
> > 30'. He liked the idea but wrote that he had a
> couple
> > of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to
> complete
> > that first. Therefore, the lack of commisions to
> > complete the design does not appear to be the
> problem.
> > I think if you commision, or pre-pay for, a set
> of
> > plans for a new design at this point you have to
> do so
> > knowing that PB&F are working against a big
> backlog at
> > a pace that probably can't be increased. Well
> worth
> > it, in my estimation, but a factor nontheless.
> > Delaware will be a neat design, and dead simple to
> > build. I think I'd keep her in ply with a steel
> shoe,
> > as designed, although the flat panels would of
> cours
> > lend themselves to steel. One of her main
> advantages
> > is her large cruising capability as a function of
> > relative portability; she would not be easily
> > trailerable in steel. I would like to see her
> with a
> > box keel to take a small diesel, instead of the
> > outboard. Sam
> >
> > --- denisnh <denisnh@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > I've been going over the Delaware postings.
> Jeez,
> > > things sure can
> > > get convoluted trying to follow the threads.
> > > Anyway, apologies if
> > > this has been covered already.
> > >
> > > Is there any news on Delaware? I have a feeling
> if
> > > the plans have
> > > not been released yet, perhaps PB&F are waiting
> for
> > > someone to hire
> > > them to finish the design before releasing the
> > > plans. When Col.
> > > Hassler was first introduced, I had a real
> interest
> > > in this boat, but
> > > it didn't meet my requirements as far as
> cruising
> > > with power under
> > > bare poles went. It would be nice to have that
> > > capability in the
> > > nothern lattitudes. Hassler is a bit too small
> and
> > > not enough range.
> > >
> > > Delaware reminds me a lot of Hassler except it's
> a
> > > trawler with
> > > plenty of range. It also looks like rigging up
> an
> > > auxiliary sail
> > > would be no problem. This boat looks like an
> ideal
> > > candidate for
> > > steel as well as wood/epoxy. I'm sure
> commissioning
> > > the completion
> > > of Delaware would be rather expensive, but I
> will
> > > certainly consider
> > > it at some point in the future.
> > >
> > > I need to get my subscriptions going again for
> MAIB
> > > and Wooden Boat.
> > > They lapsed and I never renewed them because of
> some
> > > personal
> > > issues. I assume Phil Bolger still has his
> regular
> > > column? There's
> > > been some talk here and there about him
> retiring.
> > > Does anyone know
> > > about this?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Denis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> >http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to completeA Delaware could be built from the published concept study,
[with a little lofting and/or computer assist, like with Hulls.exe]
I think that George Buehler would call it a troller, not a trawler.
Delaware is kind of halfway b[[etween a Topaz and a Tahiti.
Hugo put a scan at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/
look for the jpg dated July 1
I've heard or seen a lot about steel const from time to time, here. I
have a friend with a 43ft steel sailboat built in France in a coop kind
of boatyard. Anyway, it continually rusts out from condensation and
last year the 2 yr old barrier and bottom paint (boat is probably 10-20
yrs old) peeled off in circles, all over the bottom, like a pox. The
paint people, interlux I think, said it was due to electricity being
discharged into the water from other boats or systems and his boat was
the biggest sink or receptor in the marina. I'm not sure that steel
construction is all it's cracked up to be. Clyde
denisnh wrote:
have a friend with a 43ft steel sailboat built in France in a coop kind
of boatyard. Anyway, it continually rusts out from condensation and
last year the 2 yr old barrier and bottom paint (boat is probably 10-20
yrs old) peeled off in circles, all over the bottom, like a pox. The
paint people, interlux I think, said it was due to electricity being
discharged into the water from other boats or systems and his boat was
the biggest sink or receptor in the marina. I'm not sure that steel
construction is all it's cracked up to be. Clyde
denisnh wrote:
> Thanks for the update, Sam. Can you tell us how much the plans are?[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> You bring up an important point about commissioning a design:
> delivery time. It must be very frustrating to wait so long for a
> design to be completed. Phil Bolger is a great guy, though, and I
> imagine he won't move on to a new project until he's certain the one
> he's working on is just right. Poor Sue. 2 1/2 years?!?!
>
> As for building in steel, you bring up some good points. But a boat
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
Thanks for the update, Sam. Can you tell us how much the plans are?
You bring up an important point about commissioning a design:
delivery time. It must be very frustrating to wait so long for a
design to be completed. Phil Bolger is a great guy, though, and I
imagine he won't move on to a new project until he's certain the one
he's working on is just right. Poor Sue. 2 1/2 years?!?!
As for building in steel, you bring up some good points. But a boat
that size would not be very portable to me anyway (I don't own a to
vehicle) and steel tends to handle ice better than wood. Of course
there's always the possibility of cladding the boat with something
tough below the waterline to help protect it.
For some reason, I have trouble visualizing just what the boat would
look like in real life. They always seem to look different than I
expect. The Delaware is a great looking boat in the "cartoons",
though. I'm seriously thinking of this design...
Thanks,
Denis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
You bring up an important point about commissioning a design:
delivery time. It must be very frustrating to wait so long for a
design to be completed. Phil Bolger is a great guy, though, and I
imagine he won't move on to a new project until he's certain the one
he's working on is just right. Poor Sue. 2 1/2 years?!?!
As for building in steel, you bring up some good points. But a boat
that size would not be very portable to me anyway (I don't own a to
vehicle) and steel tends to handle ice better than wood. Of course
there's always the possibility of cladding the boat with something
tough below the waterline to help protect it.
For some reason, I have trouble visualizing just what the boat would
look like in real life. They always seem to look different than I
expect. The Delaware is a great looking boat in the "cartoons",
though. I'm seriously thinking of this design...
Thanks,
Denis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
>
> I ordered a set of plans for Delaware, as and when
> completed. I asked him about stretching her out to
> 30'. He liked the idea but wrote that he had a couple
> of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to complete
> that first. Therefore, the lack of commisions to
> complete the design does not appear to be the problem.
> I think if you commision, or pre-pay for, a set of
> plans for a new design at this point you have to do so
> knowing that PB&F are working against a big backlog at
> a pace that probably can't be increased. Well worth
> it, in my estimation, but a factor nontheless.
> Delaware will be a neat design, and dead simple to
> build. I think I'd keep her in ply with a steel shoe,
> as designed, although the flat panels would of cours
> lend themselves to steel. One of her main advantages
> is her large cruising capability as a function of
> relative portability; she would not be easily
> trailerable in steel. I would like to see her with a
> box keel to take a small diesel, instead of the
> outboard. Sam
>
> --- denisnh <denisnh@y...> wrote:
>
> > I've been going over the Delaware postings. Jeez,
> > things sure can
> > get convoluted trying to follow the threads.
> > Anyway, apologies if
> > this has been covered already.
> >
> > Is there any news on Delaware? I have a feeling if
> > the plans have
> > not been released yet, perhaps PB&F are waiting for
> > someone to hire
> > them to finish the design before releasing the
> > plans. When Col.
> > Hassler was first introduced, I had a real interest
> > in this boat, but
> > it didn't meet my requirements as far as cruising
> > with power under
> > bare poles went. It would be nice to have that
> > capability in the
> > nothern lattitudes. Hassler is a bit too small and
> > not enough range.
> >
> > Delaware reminds me a lot of Hassler except it's a
> > trawler with
> > plenty of range. It also looks like rigging up an
> > auxiliary sail
> > would be no problem. This boat looks like an ideal
> > candidate for
> > steel as well as wood/epoxy. I'm sure commissioning
> > the completion
> > of Delaware would be rather expensive, but I will
> > certainly consider
> > it at some point in the future.
> >
> > I need to get my subscriptions going again for MAIB
> > and Wooden Boat.
> > They lapsed and I never renewed them because of some
> > personal
> > issues. I assume Phil Bolger still has his regular
> > column? There's
> > been some talk here and there about him retiring.
> > Does anyone know
> > about this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Denis
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>
Sam:
-- Sue --
(patiently waiting for 2 1/2 years)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> I think if you commision, or pre-pay for, a set ofIndeed.
> plans for a new design at this point you have to do so
> knowing that PB&F are working against a big backlog at
> a pace that probably can't be increased.
-- Sue --
(patiently waiting for 2 1/2 years)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I ordered a set of plans for Delaware, as and when
completed. I asked him about stretching her out to
30'. He liked the idea but wrote that he had a couple
of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to complete
that first. Therefore, the lack of commisions to
complete the design does not appear to be the problem.
I think if you commision, or pre-pay for, a set of
plans for a new design at this point you have to do so
knowing that PB&F are working against a big backlog at
a pace that probably can't be increased. Well worth
it, in my estimation, but a factor nontheless.
Delaware will be a neat design, and dead simple to
build. I think I'd keep her in ply with a steel shoe,
as designed, although the flat panels would of cours
lend themselves to steel. One of her main advantages
is her large cruising capability as a function of
relative portability; she would not be easily
trailerable in steel. I would like to see her with a
box keel to take a small diesel, instead of the
outboard. Sam
--- denisnh <denisnh@...> wrote:
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
completed. I asked him about stretching her out to
30'. He liked the idea but wrote that he had a couple
of orders for 25' plans, so he would have to complete
that first. Therefore, the lack of commisions to
complete the design does not appear to be the problem.
I think if you commision, or pre-pay for, a set of
plans for a new design at this point you have to do so
knowing that PB&F are working against a big backlog at
a pace that probably can't be increased. Well worth
it, in my estimation, but a factor nontheless.
Delaware will be a neat design, and dead simple to
build. I think I'd keep her in ply with a steel shoe,
as designed, although the flat panels would of cours
lend themselves to steel. One of her main advantages
is her large cruising capability as a function of
relative portability; she would not be easily
trailerable in steel. I would like to see her with a
box keel to take a small diesel, instead of the
outboard. Sam
--- denisnh <denisnh@...> wrote:
> I've been going over the Delaware postings. Jeez,__________________________________
> things sure can
> get convoluted trying to follow the threads.
> Anyway, apologies if
> this has been covered already.
>
> Is there any news on Delaware? I have a feeling if
> the plans have
> not been released yet, perhaps PB&F are waiting for
> someone to hire
> them to finish the design before releasing the
> plans. When Col.
> Hassler was first introduced, I had a real interest
> in this boat, but
> it didn't meet my requirements as far as cruising
> with power under
> bare poles went. It would be nice to have that
> capability in the
> nothern lattitudes. Hassler is a bit too small and
> not enough range.
>
> Delaware reminds me a lot of Hassler except it's a
> trawler with
> plenty of range. It also looks like rigging up an
> auxiliary sail
> would be no problem. This boat looks like an ideal
> candidate for
> steel as well as wood/epoxy. I'm sure commissioning
> the completion
> of Delaware would be rather expensive, but I will
> certainly consider
> it at some point in the future.
>
> I need to get my subscriptions going again for MAIB
> and Wooden Boat.
> They lapsed and I never renewed them because of some
> personal
> issues. I assume Phil Bolger still has his regular
> column? There's
> been some talk here and there about him retiring.
> Does anyone know
> about this?
>
> Thanks,
> Denis
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
I've been going over the Delaware postings. Jeez, things sure can
get convoluted trying to follow the threads. Anyway, apologies if
this has been covered already.
Is there any news on Delaware? I have a feeling if the plans have
not been released yet, perhaps PB&F are waiting for someone to hire
them to finish the design before releasing the plans. When Col.
Hassler was first introduced, I had a real interest in this boat, but
it didn't meet my requirements as far as cruising with power under
bare poles went. It would be nice to have that capability in the
nothern lattitudes. Hassler is a bit too small and not enough range.
Delaware reminds me a lot of Hassler except it's a trawler with
plenty of range. It also looks like rigging up an auxiliary sail
would be no problem. This boat looks like an ideal candidate for
steel as well as wood/epoxy. I'm sure commissioning the completion
of Delaware would be rather expensive, but I will certainly consider
it at some point in the future.
I need to get my subscriptions going again for MAIB and Wooden Boat.
They lapsed and I never renewed them because of some personal
issues. I assume Phil Bolger still has his regular column? There's
been some talk here and there about him retiring. Does anyone know
about this?
Thanks,
Denis
get convoluted trying to follow the threads. Anyway, apologies if
this has been covered already.
Is there any news on Delaware? I have a feeling if the plans have
not been released yet, perhaps PB&F are waiting for someone to hire
them to finish the design before releasing the plans. When Col.
Hassler was first introduced, I had a real interest in this boat, but
it didn't meet my requirements as far as cruising with power under
bare poles went. It would be nice to have that capability in the
nothern lattitudes. Hassler is a bit too small and not enough range.
Delaware reminds me a lot of Hassler except it's a trawler with
plenty of range. It also looks like rigging up an auxiliary sail
would be no problem. This boat looks like an ideal candidate for
steel as well as wood/epoxy. I'm sure commissioning the completion
of Delaware would be rather expensive, but I will certainly consider
it at some point in the future.
I need to get my subscriptions going again for MAIB and Wooden Boat.
They lapsed and I never renewed them because of some personal
issues. I assume Phil Bolger still has his regular column? There's
been some talk here and there about him retiring. Does anyone know
about this?
Thanks,
Denis