Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
When the land is prone to flooding, you want to add elevation before you
erect a building, so you borrow soil from one area and pile it up to make
sure your building doesn't flood. What's left is the borrow pit. When it
floods, you have a nice pond.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
erect a building, so you borrow soil from one area and pile it up to make
sure your building doesn't flood. What's left is the borrow pit. When it
floods, you have a nice pond.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
> And what are borrow pits, for the record?
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Roger Derby
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:15 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
>
>
>
> Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes.
> Those
> are dangerous.
>
> I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
>
>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
>>> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
>>> in Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>>> lived in the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings.
>>> We were cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they
>>> didn't distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we
>>> had few people who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
>
>> Glad we only have Canada geese, Coots, frogs and an occasional muskrat
>> family in our borrow pits:-)
>>
>> Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
> And that,dear Sir,is one reason why I live a considerable distance
> to the East and South of those critters.......not to mention that I
> think our women folk have it in aces over the lasses out West ;-)
Montreal women have "it" in aces over just about anywhere... There's
something in the water, and it ain't Peter's boat, if you get my meaning.
;-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
moderator giving me the royal boot off into some internet
wasteland...so I shall refrain respectfully.
off the transom even lower then the plans show.The 5hp on my Micro
(actually my ex,since Nels the Mad Viking Prairre Sailor bought
LESTAT a couple of years ago) never bit bottom and the very end of
the keel often took it in the chin before the rudder
regarding multi's. However,I had a hull shape along the lines of
Bolger's DOUBLE EAGLE design,that is; box shaped pontoons for
MAXIMUM load carrying and His genius to perhaps elaborate a straight
forward cross beam set-up for quick narrowing prior to getting her
on a trailer.Considering His past work designing break-down boats of
some considerable length,he may grace us with a treat :-).Also,with
respect to your rather benign climatic conditions,the cabin/shelter
need not be too involved,I suspect.
to the East and South of those critters.......not to mention that I
think our women folk have it in aces over the lasses out West ;-)
Keep us up-dated with your search and especially news from our Hero!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,or Pierre for the lady folk,(wink,wink,nudge,nudge!)
from along the mighty St.Lawrence.........
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
> >although there was a dancer once BUT that is anotherstory........
>Oh Graeme,the stories I could tell BUT I worry about our own gentle
>
> go on , do tell ; -)
moderator giving me the royal boot off into some internet
wasteland...so I shall refrain respectfully.
> sailing, and the prop on my Micro often bites Mother Earth beforeInteresting! You must be using a long shaft outboard or have it hung
> the keel! I really worry about the rudder.
off the transom even lower then the plans show.The 5hp on my Micro
(actually my ex,since Nels the Mad Viking Prairre Sailor bought
LESTAT a couple of years ago) never bit bottom and the very end of
the keel often took it in the chin before the rudder
> Yeah. I've thought a bit about that. Can you carry enough suppliesto
> in a small multi? Some parts of the coast are long, empty and
> thirsty - the multi might get there and back nicely, but I'd want
> stay awhile and explore - I might be taking the time to smell theI certainly can appreciate the trailering concerns,amongst others,
> roses anyway, so to speak. Also, I think I like the ability to
> easily haul-out and tow a bit too much to trade off.
regarding multi's. However,I had a hull shape along the lines of
Bolger's DOUBLE EAGLE design,that is; box shaped pontoons for
MAXIMUM load carrying and His genius to perhaps elaborate a straight
forward cross beam set-up for quick narrowing prior to getting her
on a trailer.Considering His past work designing break-down boats of
some considerable length,he may grace us with a treat :-).Also,with
respect to your rather benign climatic conditions,the cabin/shelter
need not be too involved,I suspect.
> Oh yeah, sure. Hey, I've seen the size of those diving bearsAnd that,dear Sir,is one reason why I live a considerable distance
> there to your north and west. :-O
to the East and South of those critters.......not to mention that I
think our women folk have it in aces over the lasses out West ;-)
Keep us up-dated with your search and especially news from our Hero!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,or Pierre for the lady folk,(wink,wink,nudge,nudge!)
from along the mighty St.Lawrence.........
I have encountered mosquitoes all over the world from SE Asia to the
Balkans including Florida ones. For sheer unrestrained size numbers and
ferocity nothing can match the mosquitoes of the lower Yukon in the
vicinity of Kaltag or Nulato. I have read that the Chesapeake black
flies are right up there for ornerenous however.
HJ
Roger Derby wrote:
Balkans including Florida ones. For sheer unrestrained size numbers and
ferocity nothing can match the mosquitoes of the lower Yukon in the
vicinity of Kaltag or Nulato. I have read that the Chesapeake black
flies are right up there for ornerenous however.
HJ
Roger Derby wrote:
>Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes. Those[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>are dangerous.
>
>I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
>
>Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
>
>
>
>
>>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
>>>standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
>>>in Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>>>lived in the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings.
>>>We were cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they
>>>didn't distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we
>>>had few people who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
>>>
>>>
A borrow pit is where you "borrow" or more correctly "take" dirt or rock
or sand or what ever for use some where else. Even in Texas we know
about borrow pits and mosquitoes and alligators. Another piece of info
that I learned is that Florida is the only place in the world that
alligators and saltwater crocks cohabit. The worst storm tides of
"todays" Florida hurricane were at the mouth of the everglades.
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:01:38 -0400 "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
writes:
And what are borrow pits, for the record?
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Derby
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:15 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes.
Those
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
or sand or what ever for use some where else. Even in Texas we know
about borrow pits and mosquitoes and alligators. Another piece of info
that I learned is that Florida is the only place in the world that
alligators and saltwater crocks cohabit. The worst storm tides of
"todays" Florida hurricane were at the mouth of the everglades.
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:01:38 -0400 "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
writes:
And what are borrow pits, for the record?
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Derby
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:15 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes.
Those
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>>
>> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
>> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
>> in Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>> lived in the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings.
>> We were cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they
>> didn't distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we
>> had few people who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
> Glad we only have Canada geese, Coots, frogs and an occasional muskrat
> family in our borrow pits:-)
>
> Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
Bolger rules!!!
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horses
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And what are borrow pits, for the record?
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Derby
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:15 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes. Those
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Derby
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:15 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes. Those
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>>
>> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
>> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
>> in Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>> lived in the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings.
>> We were cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they
>> didn't distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we
>> had few people who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
> Glad we only have Canada geese, Coots, frogs and an occasional muskrat
> family in our borrow pits:-)
>
> Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey, the gator's weren't a problem, but Florida invented mosquitoes. Those
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
are dangerous.
I thought some of Wisconsin's might have drifted up your way.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>>
>> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
>> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
>> in Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>> lived in the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings.
>> We were cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they
>> didn't distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we
>> had few people who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
> Glad we only have Canada geese, Coots, frogs and an occasional muskrat
> family in our borrow pits:-)
>
> Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
family in our borrow pits:-)
Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
>in
> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working
> Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size wholived in
> the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We werefew people
> cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
> distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had
> who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)Glad we only have Canada geese, Coots, frogs and an occasional muskrat
>
family in our borrow pits:-)
Nels, Still in Saskatchewan
>Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant Owen" <mariner@n...> wrote:Lucky alligators, for crocs have no friends. It's true, it's not a
>
> I've heard that at Halloween alligators dress up like crocs to scare
> the *%*$% out of their friends.
>
smile.
Graeme
> Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>wrote:
>We neverRight on.
> developed a warm personal relationship.
Graeme
Yes they have themeparks, and, unbelievably, wilderness boat tours,
where they thrill the public by having them jump up to feed. But
I've seen footage of a wild salty snatching a wild duck from the air
after leaping suddenly from the deep. A fairly big croc straight up
with its back feet clear of the water. Missile awesome. Apparently a
useful hunting technique. One of many. Opportunist or stalker.
No housewife will drive one of these away with a broom, though there
is the odd extraordinary escape. The one mentioned, that took the
poor bloke, had a full belly of razorback and wallaby. He was taken
for 'Ron' - later on - and I believe as yet nothing has been found
but his shirt.
A croc 14 feet and 661 lbs will take a ton of well armed feral water-
buffalo. He may yet grow nearly twice as big.
Graeme
where they thrill the public by having them jump up to feed. But
I've seen footage of a wild salty snatching a wild duck from the air
after leaping suddenly from the deep. A fairly big croc straight up
with its back feet clear of the water. Missile awesome. Apparently a
useful hunting technique. One of many. Opportunist or stalker.
No housewife will drive one of these away with a broom, though there
is the odd extraordinary escape. The one mentioned, that took the
poor bloke, had a full belly of razorback and wallaby. He was taken
for 'Ron' - later on - and I believe as yet nothing has been found
but his shirt.
A croc 14 feet and 661 lbs will take a ton of well armed feral water-
buffalo. He may yet grow nearly twice as big.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...> wrote:
>
> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By
Florida
> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was
working in
> Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
lived in
> the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We
were
> cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
> distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had
few people
> who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
>
> While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was
routine to
> read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run,
they're
> fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most
critters,
> they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said,
you are
> well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your
hand over
> the side.
>
> This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while
until
> their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the
tail) is
> a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
>
> Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
>http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
>
> Not really something to lose sleep over.
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@N...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:09 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
>
>
> > "A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
> > 4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the
news
> > at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was
taken
> > while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep
water
> > and plucked him from their canoe.
> >
> > I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass
the
> > skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
> > in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
> > protected species in Australia since being hunted to near
extinction
> > in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
> > the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
> > considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
> > coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will
occur
> > further south in time.
> >
> > Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will
decrease
> > somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill,
and
> > eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
> > need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern
coast.
> > From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres
inland.
> > There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
> > coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in
brown
> > or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
>
Hi Nels,
thanks for the input.
would not get enough of this use until after the kids have flown the
nest some years from now; others do it at this size; and the premise
that if you can circumnavigate in a homebuilt sheet material 20
foot Ocean Crosser of reputable design ( and there's a few) then you
can do this. After all, Micro Navigator was designed to
circumnavigate Australia, and I'm only considering chancing the top
crocs not the bottom Great Australian Bite. That's for real sailors,
though you never know - once nearly half way around.... .. and
just a feeling Micro Nav could be better bigger.
hell of a job to choose her over OSTAR Class lV Racer, at a smaller
scale 'whalewatchering' AS19 as far as I know has not been
considered before (PCB is considering 'birdwatchering' Oldshoe after
all). It might prove a better mod than Nav or OML. I see a small
pilot house over where George wanted to sit, high topsides dogged
down forward, sealed water tight, great reserve stability....
Someone's doing it. Much modified - reshaped bow, "Freedom" type
yawl rig, keel, inboard diesel, outboard rudder, Raised topsides
throughout, sort of birdwatcher cockpit / pilot station amidships
between for and aft cabin / work areas - sails real well.
Perhaps, but are they "fit to keep the sea"?
cheers
Graeme
thanks for the input.
> Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:not
> I would agree with Peter Lenihans comments that the Micros would
> be suitable for your requirements and I doubt that a heavilyOh dear.
> modified AS19 would serve either.
> You have not specified whether you intend to trailer the boatTo trailer would be good. 20 feet or so - cost is one thing; she
> although it seems you are considering designs not longer than 20
> feet
would not get enough of this use until after the kids have flown the
nest some years from now; others do it at this size; and the premise
that if you can circumnavigate in a homebuilt sheet material 20
foot Ocean Crosser of reputable design ( and there's a few) then you
can do this. After all, Micro Navigator was designed to
circumnavigate Australia, and I'm only considering chancing the top
crocs not the bottom Great Australian Bite. That's for real sailors,
though you never know - once nearly half way around.... .. and
just a feeling Micro Nav could be better bigger.
>First is WhalewatcherBrilliant! Though she may be a bit big for now and it would be a
hell of a job to choose her over OSTAR Class lV Racer, at a smaller
scale 'whalewatchering' AS19 as far as I know has not been
considered before (PCB is considering 'birdwatchering' Oldshoe after
all). It might prove a better mod than Nav or OML. I see a small
pilot house over where George wanted to sit, high topsides dogged
down forward, sealed water tight, great reserve stability....
>then the upgradedPerhaps I could stretch to that. This option is already proven.
> Martha Jane
Someone's doing it. Much modified - reshaped bow, "Freedom" type
yawl rig, keel, inboard diesel, outboard rudder, Raised topsides
throughout, sort of birdwatcher cockpit / pilot station amidships
between for and aft cabin / work areas - sails real well.
>Wandervogel which is not finalized and .....> And finally, theultimate canal cruiser IMO - The Jochems Schooner.
Perhaps, but are they "fit to keep the sea"?
> I also agree with him...Peter Lenihan ... that you should considerprinting out your
> post in whole and faxing it to PCB&F and see if they respond.I guess he gets crazy letters all the time. Another may not hurt? : )
cheers
Graeme
Hi Peter,
thanks for your feedback.
<For any boat under 20'LWL,....Choices have to be made
Understood.
ocean, mainly along coast, a bit offshore, and some hops with land
not long unseen. There are lots of islands and the Kimberly coast
for instance is kind of like the fiords of Norway, only old and warm.
ripples before the boat was floating. There would be a little
pounding, but most of the wave energy would have been spent. No, not
sailing, and the prop on my Micro often bites Mother Earth before
the keel! I really worry about the rudder.
in a small multi? Some parts of the coast are long, empty and
thirsty - the multi might get there and back nicely, but I'd want to
stay awhile and explore - I might be taking the time to smell the
roses anyway, so to speak. Also, I think I like the ability to
easily haul-out and tow a bit too much to trade off.
there to your north and west. :-O
Graeme
thanks for your feedback.
> Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>wrote:
>although there was a dancer once BUT that is another story........go on , do tell ; -)
>once you enter into "their" territory and present an easy targetthen you are just
>another item added to their buffet menue, boat type hardly mattersonce
> you've stepped overboardToo true.
<For any boat under 20'LWL,....Choices have to be made
Understood.
> Both the Micro and Long Micro,as designed, are very"seaworthy" atauthority.
> least in regards to their ability to self right/rescue with
> Anyone skippering one should however realize that they are stillSMALL
> boats and it does not take much of a sea change to render thembogging
> somewhat like a toy overwhelmed nor much speed to have them
> down in their own holes.I like that "authority". I wouldn't be venturing too far into the
ocean, mainly along coast, a bit offshore, and some hops with land
not long unseen. There are lots of islands and the Kimberly coast
for instance is kind of like the fiords of Norway, only old and warm.
> Boating in less then 2 feet of water is already very shallowmud
> going....if you make the boat shallower and end up boating in even
> shallower water,what happens when there are waves about? Constant
> thumping or what ? :-D you certainly won't be sailing by then andI don't think the waves in that situation would be much more than
> motoring is going to get interesting!
ripples before the boat was floating. There would be a little
pounding, but most of the wave energy would have been spent. No, not
sailing, and the prop on my Micro often bites Mother Earth before
the keel! I really worry about the rudder.
> Micro......in fact,it would be most informative to send off yourstory/concerns,
> requirements directly to our Hero,especially the croc
> along with your expected cruising grounds to see what sort ofYou're right.
> buildable-bullet-proof boat he(they) come up with.
> I would be inclined to look into multi-hulls as a suitable shallowYeah. I've thought a bit about that. Can you carry enough supplies
> water platform/vehicle with light house top structure........
in a small multi? Some parts of the coast are long, empty and
thirsty - the multi might get there and back nicely, but I'd want to
stay awhile and explore - I might be taking the time to smell the
roses anyway, so to speak. Also, I think I like the ability to
easily haul-out and tow a bit too much to trade off.
>from the land where pike and muskie are about as bad agood
> bite expected to come from the water but they sure make for some
> fishing!Oh yeah, sure. Hey, I've seen the size of those diving bears
there to your north and west. :-O
Graeme
I've heard that at Halloween alligators dress up like crocs to scare
the *%*$% out of their friends.
Bryant
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>
wrote:
the *%*$% out of their friends.
Bryant
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>
wrote:
>about
> I know something about alligators but only know about salt water
> crocodiles by what I read. The crock is suppose to be much more
> aggressive and therefore much more dangerous. I had a 5' gator for
> a year feeding it live fish and shrimp until Hurricane Carla's tide tookwith
> him back home to the King Ranch. All pet alligators are named Charley.
> I was very very careful with the creature and regarded his jaw speed
> awe. He would just as soon eat my hand as the food I tossed to him. Helived in
> would only eat when hungry and ignored food at anyother time. We never
> developed a warm personal relationship.
>
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:36:36 -0400 "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@e...>
> writes:
> I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
> standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working in
> Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who
>routine to
> the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We were
> cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
> distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had few
> people
> who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
>
> While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was
> read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run,critters,
> they're
> fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most
>are
> they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said, you
> well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your handover
>until
> the side.
>
> This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while
> their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the tail)Fax:
> is
> a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
>
> Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
>http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
>
> Not really something to lose sleep over.
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@N...
>http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:09 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
>
>
> > "A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
> > 4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the news
> > at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was taken
> > while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep water
> > and plucked him from their canoe.
> >
> > I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass the
> > skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
> > in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
> > protected species in Australia since being hunted to near extinction
> > in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
> > the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
> > considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
> > coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will occur
> > further south in time.
> >
> > Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will decrease
> > somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill, and
> > eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
> > need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern coast.
> > From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres inland.
> > There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
> > coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in brown
> > or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Alaska outdoors Boating safety Boating magazine
> Great outdoors
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I know something about alligators but only know about salt water
crocodiles by what I read. The crock is suppose to be much more
aggressive and therefore much more dangerous. I had a 5' gator for about
a year feeding it live fish and shrimp until Hurricane Carla's tide took
him back home to the King Ranch. All pet alligators are named Charley.
I was very very careful with the creature and regarded his jaw speed with
awe. He would just as soon eat my hand as the food I tossed to him. He
would only eat when hungry and ignored food at anyother time. We never
developed a warm personal relationship.
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:36:36 -0400 "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
writes:
I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working in
Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who lived in
the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We were
cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had few
people
who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was routine to
read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run,
they're
fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most critters,
they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said, you are
well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your hand over
the side.
This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while until
their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the tail)
is
a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
Not really something to lose sleep over.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
crocodiles by what I read. The crock is suppose to be much more
aggressive and therefore much more dangerous. I had a 5' gator for about
a year feeding it live fish and shrimp until Hurricane Carla's tide took
him back home to the King Ranch. All pet alligators are named Charley.
I was very very careful with the creature and regarded his jaw speed with
awe. He would just as soon eat my hand as the food I tossed to him. He
would only eat when hungry and ignored food at anyother time. We never
developed a warm personal relationship.
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:36:36 -0400 "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
writes:
I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working in
Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who lived in
the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We were
cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had few
people
who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was routine to
read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run,
they're
fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most critters,
they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said, you are
well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your hand over
the side.
This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while until
their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the tail)
is
a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
Not really something to lose sleep over.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:09 AM
Subject: [bolger] Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
> "A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
> 4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the news
> at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was taken
> while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep water
> and plucked him from their canoe.
>
> I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass the
> skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
> in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
> protected species in Australia since being hunted to near extinction
> in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
> the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
> considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
> coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will occur
> further south in time.
>
> Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will decrease
> somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill, and
> eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
> need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern coast.
> From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres inland.
> There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
> coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in brown
> or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS Alaska outdoors Boating safety Boating magazine
Great outdoors
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've been puzzling over your post for a day or two now. By Florida
standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working in
Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who lived in
the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We were
cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had few people
who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was routine to
read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run, they're
fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most critters,
they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said, you are
well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your hand over
the side.
This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while until
their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the tail) is
a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
Not really something to lose sleep over.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
standards that isn't really a very big example. When I was working in
Daytona Beach, there were several alligators about that size who lived in
the "borrow pits" which formed the ponds between buildings. We were
cautioned about sharing our sandwiches with them since they didn't
distinguish between sandwich and arm-holding-sandwich, but we had few people
who were that stupid. (Other than Lefty) (joke)
While they were very hard on the local pet population, it was routine to
read of some housewife driving one away with a broom. Do not run, they're
fast. Stand still and let them see how big you are. Like most critters,
they're looking for a convenient meal, not a battle. That said, you are
well advised to stay away from their nests and don't trail your hand over
the side.
This was the 1970s. They were classed as "endangered" for a while until
their population came booming back. Gator sandwich (meat from the tail) is
a delightful dish. Much better than chicken.
Maybe your story concerned as escapee from the Jumparoo show at
http://www.gatorland.com/shows.html
Not really something to lose sleep over.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:09 AM
Subject: [bolger] Drying-out Micro Cruising Square
> "A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
> 4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the news
> at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was taken
> while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep water
> and plucked him from their canoe.
>
> I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass the
> skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
> in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
> protected species in Australia since being hunted to near extinction
> in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
> the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
> considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
> coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will occur
> further south in time.
>
> Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will decrease
> somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill, and
> eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
> need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern coast.
> From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres inland.
> There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
> coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in brown
> or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
I would agree with Peter Lenihans comments that the Micros would not
be suitable for your requirements and I doubt that a heavily
modified AS19 would serve either.
I also agree with him that you should consider printing out your
post in whole and faxing it to PCB&F and see if they respond. I am
sure they will find it intersting and intriguing:-) Remember to
include your phone number!
From what I understand, the box keel boats like Hasler are not meant
to dry out without some bracing because they may tip over if the
bottom is sloped.
You have not specified whether you intend to trailer the boat
although it seems you are considering designs not longer than 20
feet?
If something longer is taken into consideration then there are two
models I would suggest. First is Whalewatcher and then the upgraded
Martha Jane, both of which could be considered as motorsailers -
with a T9.9 or larger - capable of getting up into small backwaters
and would work nicely with the battened balanced lug sailplan
similar to the Alaskan Motor Sailer. Or even with a yuloh in the
thinner mud soup. Or maybe even a longtail!
Another design that fits the potential criteria is Fast Motor Sailor
if you can afford the motor requirements.
Then there is Wandervogel which is not finalized and a lovely model
is on the homepage at Bolger 3.
And finally, the ultimate canal cruiser IMO - The Jochems Schooner.
Cheers, Nels
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
>Hi Graeme,
> "A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
> 4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today."
I would agree with Peter Lenihans comments that the Micros would not
be suitable for your requirements and I doubt that a heavily
modified AS19 would serve either.
I also agree with him that you should consider printing out your
post in whole and faxing it to PCB&F and see if they respond. I am
sure they will find it intersting and intriguing:-) Remember to
include your phone number!
From what I understand, the box keel boats like Hasler are not meant
to dry out without some bracing because they may tip over if the
bottom is sloped.
You have not specified whether you intend to trailer the boat
although it seems you are considering designs not longer than 20
feet?
If something longer is taken into consideration then there are two
models I would suggest. First is Whalewatcher and then the upgraded
Martha Jane, both of which could be considered as motorsailers -
with a T9.9 or larger - capable of getting up into small backwaters
and would work nicely with the battened balanced lug sailplan
similar to the Alaskan Motor Sailer. Or even with a yuloh in the
thinner mud soup. Or maybe even a longtail!
Another design that fits the potential criteria is Fast Motor Sailor
if you can afford the motor requirements.
Then there is Wandervogel which is not finalized and a lovely model
is on the homepage at Bolger 3.
And finally, the ultimate canal cruiser IMO - The Jochems Schooner.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
wrote:
Never experienced threats from large animals,although there was a
dancer once BUT that is another story........ so can not really
address that issue however it appears plain that once you enter
into "their" territory and present an easy target then you are just
another item added to their buffet menue,boat type hardly matters once
you've stepped overboard :-)
Regarding your other concerns:
For any boat under 20'LWL, that is expected to act as a cruising boat
ie,protected living accomadations for periods extending beyond a day
or two,there is a real limit to performance available.Choices have to
be made regarding what you value most.If it is roomy cabin and tons of
storage space, forget about sparkling windward performance.On the
other hand,if it IS windward performance that tops your list,say bye-
bye to spacious accomadations......and so the trade off list goes on.
Both the Micro and Long Micro,as designed, are very"seaworthy" at
least in regards to their ability to self right/rescue with authority.
Anyone skippering one should however realize that they are still SMALL
boats and it does not take much of a sea change to render them
somewhat like a toy overwhelmed nor much speed to have them bogging
down in their own holes.
If you've got mud up to your thighs,then the Micro or Long Micro
salient keel will have no problem settling down nicely on their
bums,all nice and level :-) If the bottom is hard,they settle down by
their noses so any leg supports will have to both address athwartship
stability and fore-n-aft attitude........that is,if you have any
reasonable expectations of sleeping aboard while high-n-dry :-)
Boating in less then 2 feet of water is already very shallow
going....if you make the boat shallower and end up boating in even
shallower water,what happens when there are waves about? Constant mud
thumping or what ? :-D you certainly won't be sailing by then and
motoring is going to get interesting!
In the end,the sort of boat you are seeking is not the Micro nor Long
Micro......in fact,it would be most informative to send off your
requirements directly to our Hero,especially the croc story/concerns,
along with your expected cruising grounds to see what sort of
buildable-bullet-proof boat he(they) come up with.
I would be inclined to look into multi-hulls as a suitable shallow
water platform/vehicle with light house top structure........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the land where pike and muskie are about as bad a
bite expected to come from the water but they sure make for some good
fishing!
wrote:
>> Anyway, to sum up for Micro or Long Micro etc what about:Hi Graeme,
>
> 1) seaworthiness and;
>
> 2) improving windward ability, bow, bilge, dagger or lee-boards, box-
> keel etc;
>
> 3) improving thin water ability;
>
> 4) improving level drying-out ability?
>
> Any consideration much appreciated.
>
> Graeme
Never experienced threats from large animals,although there was a
dancer once BUT that is another story........ so can not really
address that issue however it appears plain that once you enter
into "their" territory and present an easy target then you are just
another item added to their buffet menue,boat type hardly matters once
you've stepped overboard :-)
Regarding your other concerns:
For any boat under 20'LWL, that is expected to act as a cruising boat
ie,protected living accomadations for periods extending beyond a day
or two,there is a real limit to performance available.Choices have to
be made regarding what you value most.If it is roomy cabin and tons of
storage space, forget about sparkling windward performance.On the
other hand,if it IS windward performance that tops your list,say bye-
bye to spacious accomadations......and so the trade off list goes on.
Both the Micro and Long Micro,as designed, are very"seaworthy" at
least in regards to their ability to self right/rescue with authority.
Anyone skippering one should however realize that they are still SMALL
boats and it does not take much of a sea change to render them
somewhat like a toy overwhelmed nor much speed to have them bogging
down in their own holes.
If you've got mud up to your thighs,then the Micro or Long Micro
salient keel will have no problem settling down nicely on their
bums,all nice and level :-) If the bottom is hard,they settle down by
their noses so any leg supports will have to both address athwartship
stability and fore-n-aft attitude........that is,if you have any
reasonable expectations of sleeping aboard while high-n-dry :-)
Boating in less then 2 feet of water is already very shallow
going....if you make the boat shallower and end up boating in even
shallower water,what happens when there are waves about? Constant mud
thumping or what ? :-D you certainly won't be sailing by then and
motoring is going to get interesting!
In the end,the sort of boat you are seeking is not the Micro nor Long
Micro......in fact,it would be most informative to send off your
requirements directly to our Hero,especially the croc story/concerns,
along with your expected cruising grounds to see what sort of
buildable-bullet-proof boat he(they) come up with.
I would be inclined to look into multi-hulls as a suitable shallow
water platform/vehicle with light house top structure........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the land where pike and muskie are about as bad a
bite expected to come from the water but they sure make for some good
fishing!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
wrote:
Never experienced threats from large animals,although there was a
dancer once BUT that is another story........ so can not really
address that issue however it appears plain that once you enter
into "their" territory and present an easy target then you are just
another item added to their buffet menue,boat type hardly matters once
you've stepped overboard :-)
Regarding your other concerns:
For any boat under 20'LWL, that is expected to act as a cruising boat
ie,protected living accomadations for periods extending beyond a day
or two,there is a real limit to performance available.Choices have to
be made regarding what you value most.If it is roomy cabin and tons of
storage space, forget about sparkling windward performance.On the
other hand,if it IS windward performance that tops your list,say bye-
bye to spacious accomadations......and so the trade off list goes on.
Both the Micro and Long Micro,as designed, are very"seaworthy" at
least in regards to their ability to self right/rescue with authority.
Anyone skippering one should however realize that they are still SMALL
boats and it does not take much of a sea change to render them
somewhat like a toy overwhelmed nor much speed to have them bogging
down in their own holes.
If you've got mud up to your thighs,then the Micro or Long Micro
salient keel will have no problem settling down nicely on their
bums,all nice and level :-) If the bottom is hard,they settle down by
their noses so any leg supports will have to both address athwartship
stability and fore-n-aft attitude........that is,if you have any
reasonable expectations of sleeping aboard while high-n-dry :-)
Boating in less then 2 feet of water is already very shallow
going....if you make the boat shallower and end up boating in even
shallower water,what happens when there are waves about? Constant mud
thumping or what ? :-D you certainly won't be sailing by then and
motoring is going to get interesting!
In the end,the sort of boat you are seeking is not the Micro nor Long
Micro......in fact,it would be most informative to send off your
requirements directly to our Hero,especially the croc story/concerns,
along with your expected cruising grounds to see what sort of
buildable-bullet-proof boat he(they) come up with.
I would be inclined to look into multi-hulls as a suitable shallow
water platform/vehicle with light house top structure........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the land where pike and muskie are about as bad a
bite expected to come from the water but they sure make for some good
fishing!
wrote:
>> Anyway, to sum up for Micro or Long Micro etc what about:Hi Graeme,
>
> 1) seaworthiness and;
>
> 2) improving windward ability, bow, bilge, dagger or lee-boards, box-
> keel etc;
>
> 3) improving thin water ability;
>
> 4) improving level drying-out ability?
>
> Any consideration much appreciated.
>
> Graeme
Never experienced threats from large animals,although there was a
dancer once BUT that is another story........ so can not really
address that issue however it appears plain that once you enter
into "their" territory and present an easy target then you are just
another item added to their buffet menue,boat type hardly matters once
you've stepped overboard :-)
Regarding your other concerns:
For any boat under 20'LWL, that is expected to act as a cruising boat
ie,protected living accomadations for periods extending beyond a day
or two,there is a real limit to performance available.Choices have to
be made regarding what you value most.If it is roomy cabin and tons of
storage space, forget about sparkling windward performance.On the
other hand,if it IS windward performance that tops your list,say bye-
bye to spacious accomadations......and so the trade off list goes on.
Both the Micro and Long Micro,as designed, are very"seaworthy" at
least in regards to their ability to self right/rescue with authority.
Anyone skippering one should however realize that they are still SMALL
boats and it does not take much of a sea change to render them
somewhat like a toy overwhelmed nor much speed to have them bogging
down in their own holes.
If you've got mud up to your thighs,then the Micro or Long Micro
salient keel will have no problem settling down nicely on their
bums,all nice and level :-) If the bottom is hard,they settle down by
their noses so any leg supports will have to both address athwartship
stability and fore-n-aft attitude........that is,if you have any
reasonable expectations of sleeping aboard while high-n-dry :-)
Boating in less then 2 feet of water is already very shallow
going....if you make the boat shallower and end up boating in even
shallower water,what happens when there are waves about? Constant mud
thumping or what ? :-D you certainly won't be sailing by then and
motoring is going to get interesting!
In the end,the sort of boat you are seeking is not the Micro nor Long
Micro......in fact,it would be most informative to send off your
requirements directly to our Hero,especially the croc story/concerns,
along with your expected cruising grounds to see what sort of
buildable-bullet-proof boat he(they) come up with.
I would be inclined to look into multi-hulls as a suitable shallow
water platform/vehicle with light house top structure........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the land where pike and muskie are about as bad a
bite expected to come from the water but they sure make for some good
fishing!
"A wild crocodile of record breaking long unseen size, 300kg and
4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the news
at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was taken
while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep water
and plucked him from their canoe.
I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass the
skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
protected species in Australia since being hunted to near extinction
in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will occur
further south in time.
Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will decrease
somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill, and
eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern coast.
From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres inland.
There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in brown
or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
I don't mean to be melodramatic or overstate the risks; but how
would you feel in those waters rowing ashore in the Tortoise tender
you carry aboard your small cruiser? How would I feel in the June
Bug or Aury Pram I might tow behind? Nervous. Looking out for
dangerous sharks while snorkeling a far flung reef is effort mostly
wasted, which on later reflection may give rise to self-concious,
anxious laughter. However working those bulging arm, neck, and eye
muscles while rowing in an estuarine anchorage over time could lead
to more than hysterical laughter, and I don't want to be locked up.
I want to be there.
Matt Nash raises in his webpages concerning his Micro Navigator
project a dream I've thought about once or twice too (at the page
bottom here:
http://members.fortunecity.com/booraleaboats/AS29Handling.html ).
That is, to cruise the outer Great Barrier Reef. (I've also thought
of covering the rest of the coastline of the top half of the
continent, and maybe Melanesia, Micronesia and some of Indonesia
too. All short hops. Crocs probably unprotected there)
A Long Micro Navigator, if possible, would be more suitable for more
extended cruising than a Micro. (I know of one person who
continuously cruises this way in a Hartley21, and another in a much
modified Martha Jane, both have added stubb or salient keels)
There are a few problems that come with the scheme.
One is that along the GBR (Australian Great Barrier Reef)for about 9
months of the year the South-East Tradewinds blow continuously
parallel to the coast making any southing a long and very hard beat
to windward. My guess is that crew would be somewhat
comfortable enough in the Nav cabin, but could or should the
hull/keel be modified to sail closer to the wind? Would an
additional leeboard or a bow daggerboard help?
Another problem is that some parts of the coast have a big tidal
range ( eg. Broadsound 8.4 metres, the Kimberly - humongous) and
many bays dry out to sand or mud for kilometres. Also, as this coast
is cyclone prone (hurricane, typhoon) an ability to go a long way
up shallow rivers and creeks to shelter from a blow (a nominated
feature of Col Hasler) would be a great asset. Though shallow enough
to present no unusual problems out on the reef the Micro salient
keel has some drawbacks inshore. I think sufficient access up creeks
to a cyclone bolt hole could be had, but access over long stretches
of mud and upright level drying-out are problematical. It's no fun
wading through thigh deep mud (on which crocs toboggan), or living
and sleeping on a very steeply sloping dried-out boat.
Some have modified Micros and Long Micros to have internal solid
ballast and leeboards, eg Jason
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/jason%27s%20navigator%
20like%20boat/
Mark and Anke
http://www.alaska.net/%7Emzeiger/DaveAnke.html
Jeese Cooper has a lee-daggerboard. What of a lifting stubb ballast
keel like Singlehand Schooner in combination with some internal
ballast? This would solve drying out and thin water problems,
perhaps give better windward performance, but could the degree of
self rescuing and righting of the ballasted salient keel be
retained? Would comfort suffer as well due to some loss of stiffness?
Ignoring the problems of big tides and thin water can a Micro dry
out upright? Can the chines, rudder, keel and hull withstand this
repeatedly? If those parts can, then what may be the best method? If
legs are rigged port and starboard will she be stable and level fore
and aft? What about the fitting of bilge (or is it chine?) keels,
possibly made from galv plate steel (of possibly relatively high
aspect ratio?) to give three cornered support? What about the
sturdily constructed cutwater/box-keel as in Col Hasler, made of
maybe 3/4" or 1" ply for a Micro, with similar centre board.
((The box-keel under the Flying Cloud , apart from giving something
strong to settle on, and flying only the 59sqft jib headed sprit
sail, seems to have *INCREASED* speed by 14%, and that at about
*DOUBLE* usual displacement while the hull only immersed to the
usual lower load waterline! Stiffness would be up too.
The Col. Hasler hull (~120 degree included chine angle) appears at a
larger scale to be a combination of a Brick-Flying Cloud
BolgerFlowTheory-cutwater/box-keel under Jim Michalak's Weevee;
with "Nonpareil sharpie", "perfectly fair segmental rockering and
perfect diagonal" of sharpie design theory after that
of /Day/Mower/Huntington/Clapham exhibited in the original "
Minocqua" and "Sea Bird" ( R B Parker pp 26, 27, 28, 149, 150,
151); with the anti-burying properties (non-rooting?) of the
extended Auray Punt style bow, and the high and full chine of
catboats like Mouser. Could this Col Hasler treatment be applied to
a plywood Micro Navigator type? Figuring the deadrise lines might be
hardest.))
Perhaps a Navigator cabin fitted to an AS19 may be a simpler way to
go? With pinched-in, or garvey bow. Does the self righting and
rescuing ability of AS19 approach that of the Micros?
Anyway, to sum up for Micro or Long Micro etc what about:
1) seaworthiness and;
2) improving windward ability, bow, bilge, dagger or lee-boards, box-
keel etc;
3) improving thin water ability;
4) improving level drying-out ability?
Any consideration much appreciated.
Graeme
4.1m, was shot in the Northern Territory today." Heard in the news
at lunchtime. Just a couple of weeks ago in FNQ a bloke was taken
while fishing with his wife . The croc launched up out of deep water
and plucked him from their canoe.
I'm 6' 2" and could not stretch my arms far enough to encompass the
skull (mostly jaw) of a croc shot on the Palmerston goldfields
in the late 19th century. Huge. Saltwater crocs have been a
protected species in Australia since being hunted to near extinction
in the 1950's. The croc population has now increased to number in
the many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. They now must be
considered to be anywhere and everywhere around the northern
coastline and hinterland. Greenhouse can only mean they will occur
further south in time.
Some say the population dynamics are such that numbers will decrease
somewhat as the really big crocs grow bigger (they fight, kill, and
eat each other). Whatever, there is an obvious increasing further
need to be cautious when in small boats around the northern coast.
From 200km offshore, but mainly up to hundreds of kilometres inland.
There are lots of offshore islands and reefs to explore, but the
coast and rivers have many attractions too. So what too do in brown
or thin water? How to get ashore on the hard?
I don't mean to be melodramatic or overstate the risks; but how
would you feel in those waters rowing ashore in the Tortoise tender
you carry aboard your small cruiser? How would I feel in the June
Bug or Aury Pram I might tow behind? Nervous. Looking out for
dangerous sharks while snorkeling a far flung reef is effort mostly
wasted, which on later reflection may give rise to self-concious,
anxious laughter. However working those bulging arm, neck, and eye
muscles while rowing in an estuarine anchorage over time could lead
to more than hysterical laughter, and I don't want to be locked up.
I want to be there.
Matt Nash raises in his webpages concerning his Micro Navigator
project a dream I've thought about once or twice too (at the page
bottom here:
http://members.fortunecity.com/booraleaboats/AS29Handling.html ).
That is, to cruise the outer Great Barrier Reef. (I've also thought
of covering the rest of the coastline of the top half of the
continent, and maybe Melanesia, Micronesia and some of Indonesia
too. All short hops. Crocs probably unprotected there)
A Long Micro Navigator, if possible, would be more suitable for more
extended cruising than a Micro. (I know of one person who
continuously cruises this way in a Hartley21, and another in a much
modified Martha Jane, both have added stubb or salient keels)
There are a few problems that come with the scheme.
One is that along the GBR (Australian Great Barrier Reef)for about 9
months of the year the South-East Tradewinds blow continuously
parallel to the coast making any southing a long and very hard beat
to windward. My guess is that crew would be somewhat
comfortable enough in the Nav cabin, but could or should the
hull/keel be modified to sail closer to the wind? Would an
additional leeboard or a bow daggerboard help?
Another problem is that some parts of the coast have a big tidal
range ( eg. Broadsound 8.4 metres, the Kimberly - humongous) and
many bays dry out to sand or mud for kilometres. Also, as this coast
is cyclone prone (hurricane, typhoon) an ability to go a long way
up shallow rivers and creeks to shelter from a blow (a nominated
feature of Col Hasler) would be a great asset. Though shallow enough
to present no unusual problems out on the reef the Micro salient
keel has some drawbacks inshore. I think sufficient access up creeks
to a cyclone bolt hole could be had, but access over long stretches
of mud and upright level drying-out are problematical. It's no fun
wading through thigh deep mud (on which crocs toboggan), or living
and sleeping on a very steeply sloping dried-out boat.
Some have modified Micros and Long Micros to have internal solid
ballast and leeboards, eg Jason
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/jason%27s%20navigator%
20like%20boat/
Mark and Anke
http://www.alaska.net/%7Emzeiger/DaveAnke.html
Jeese Cooper has a lee-daggerboard. What of a lifting stubb ballast
keel like Singlehand Schooner in combination with some internal
ballast? This would solve drying out and thin water problems,
perhaps give better windward performance, but could the degree of
self rescuing and righting of the ballasted salient keel be
retained? Would comfort suffer as well due to some loss of stiffness?
Ignoring the problems of big tides and thin water can a Micro dry
out upright? Can the chines, rudder, keel and hull withstand this
repeatedly? If those parts can, then what may be the best method? If
legs are rigged port and starboard will she be stable and level fore
and aft? What about the fitting of bilge (or is it chine?) keels,
possibly made from galv plate steel (of possibly relatively high
aspect ratio?) to give three cornered support? What about the
sturdily constructed cutwater/box-keel as in Col Hasler, made of
maybe 3/4" or 1" ply for a Micro, with similar centre board.
((The box-keel under the Flying Cloud , apart from giving something
strong to settle on, and flying only the 59sqft jib headed sprit
sail, seems to have *INCREASED* speed by 14%, and that at about
*DOUBLE* usual displacement while the hull only immersed to the
usual lower load waterline! Stiffness would be up too.
The Col. Hasler hull (~120 degree included chine angle) appears at a
larger scale to be a combination of a Brick-Flying Cloud
BolgerFlowTheory-cutwater/box-keel under Jim Michalak's Weevee;
with "Nonpareil sharpie", "perfectly fair segmental rockering and
perfect diagonal" of sharpie design theory after that
of /Day/Mower/Huntington/Clapham exhibited in the original "
Minocqua" and "Sea Bird" ( R B Parker pp 26, 27, 28, 149, 150,
151); with the anti-burying properties (non-rooting?) of the
extended Auray Punt style bow, and the high and full chine of
catboats like Mouser. Could this Col Hasler treatment be applied to
a plywood Micro Navigator type? Figuring the deadrise lines might be
hardest.))
Perhaps a Navigator cabin fitted to an AS19 may be a simpler way to
go? With pinched-in, or garvey bow. Does the self righting and
rescuing ability of AS19 approach that of the Micros?
Anyway, to sum up for Micro or Long Micro etc what about:
1) seaworthiness and;
2) improving windward ability, bow, bilge, dagger or lee-boards, box-
keel etc;
3) improving thin water ability;
4) improving level drying-out ability?
Any consideration much appreciated.
Graeme