Re: Steadying Sail
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@w...>
wrote:
Don
wrote:
>fishing on
> 30 years ago I had a Simmons Sea Skiff which I used for striper
> Lake Murray in SC. This involved drifting among schools of shad inabout
> 120 ft of water. In a breeze, the boat would lie broadside and rollstanding
> uncomfortably in 2 to 3 ft waves. It was uncomfortable and made
> up to pee hazardous (according to a study I once saw, the leadingcause of
> drowning on one of the Great Lakes was fishermen falling overboardwhile
> attempting to recycle beer). I made up a "steadying sail" from halfa bed
> sheet with a 2x2 mast and boom. The sail was mounted on the transomand
> might have had 15 sq. ft., but it was sufficient to hold the bow towithin
> about 15 degrees into the wind while drifting, producing a sort ofcorkscrew
> pitch with a little roll thrown in. It was an improvement.Thank you. Makes sense.
>
Don
30 years ago I had a Simmons Sea Skiff which I used for striper fishing on
Lake Murray in SC. This involved drifting among schools of shad in about
120 ft of water. In a breeze, the boat would lie broadside and roll
uncomfortably in 2 to 3 ft waves. It was uncomfortable and made standing
up to pee hazardous (according to a study I once saw, the leading cause of
drowning on one of the Great Lakes was fishermen falling overboard while
attempting to recycle beer). I made up a "steadying sail" from half a bed
sheet with a 2x2 mast and boom. The sail was mounted on the transom and
might have had 15 sq. ft., but it was sufficient to hold the bow to within
about 15 degrees into the wind while drifting, producing a sort of corkscrew
pitch with a little roll thrown in. It was an improvement.
I let the sail run free when under power, it eventually shredded itself, the
arrival of another child necessitated the sale of the Simmons, and I moved
from power to sail. Simmons are enjoying a resurgence and, in my opinion,
they are about as good as you can get for along shore motor boating.
John T
Lake Murray in SC. This involved drifting among schools of shad in about
120 ft of water. In a breeze, the boat would lie broadside and roll
uncomfortably in 2 to 3 ft waves. It was uncomfortable and made standing
up to pee hazardous (according to a study I once saw, the leading cause of
drowning on one of the Great Lakes was fishermen falling overboard while
attempting to recycle beer). I made up a "steadying sail" from half a bed
sheet with a 2x2 mast and boom. The sail was mounted on the transom and
might have had 15 sq. ft., but it was sufficient to hold the bow to within
about 15 degrees into the wind while drifting, producing a sort of corkscrew
pitch with a little roll thrown in. It was an improvement.
I let the sail run free when under power, it eventually shredded itself, the
arrival of another child necessitated the sale of the Simmons, and I moved
from power to sail. Simmons are enjoying a resurgence and, in my opinion,
they are about as good as you can get for along shore motor boating.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Steadying Sail
> Don, thats a good point. I wasn't trying to be a smart
> Alec--I am realy wondering what the purpose of an
> unbalance rig like this is underway. I just bought a
> double ended salmon troller with a sailing rig with
> only a staysail, like a big genoa jib--OK downwind,
> but I am really wondering how to use this unbalanced
> rig for steadying. Has anybody in the group had
> experiance with either a staysail or aft sail for
> steadying?
>
> --- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
>
>> I was guessing as to the purpose. I am sure my
>> thoughts were
>> inspired by Bolger's comments re SMS and several
>> other of his sail
>> designs being better riding than equivalent power
>> boats.
>>
>> I guess I don't see the purpose of displaying the
>> sail in picutures
>> if it is used at anchor.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
>> <glasscocklanding@y...>
>> wrote:
>> If I am wrong, and a little aft
>> > sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some
>> working
>> > lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying
>> sail,
>> > I would be interested to learn about the technique
>> for
>> > doing so. Sam
>> >
>> ---------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "robert pyfrom" <neetra@c...> wrote:
Thanks for the reply but unless I misunderstand, you are speaking of a
sailboat. I'm specifically speaking of the pic of MVRosemary at the
link in the original post.
The boat pictured there is clearly a power cruiser w' this tiny sail
added.
>ketch a
> Having used a steadying sail for yrs. maybe I can help. With my old
> small jib downwind and a small mizzen upwind makes for a muchsmoother ride.
> The pressure on the sail really helps dampen the roll.ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
> Comboat
Thanks for the reply but unless I misunderstand, you are speaking of a
sailboat. I'm specifically speaking of the pic of MVRosemary at the
link in the original post.
The boat pictured there is clearly a power cruiser w' this tiny sail
added.
Having used a steadying sail for yrs. maybe I can help. With my old ketch a
small jib downwind and a small mizzen upwind makes for a much smoother ride.
The pressure on the sail really helps dampen the roll.
Comboat
small jib downwind and a small mizzen upwind makes for a much smoother ride.
The pressure on the sail really helps dampen the roll.
Comboat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Steadying Sail
> Don, thats a good point. I wasn't trying to be a smart
> Alec--I am realy wondering what the purpose of an
> unbalance rig like this is underway. I just bought a
> double ended salmon troller with a sailing rig with
> only a staysail, like a big genoa jib--OK downwind,
> but I am really wondering how to use this unbalanced
> rig for steadying. Has anybody in the group had
> experiance with either a staysail or aft sail for
> steadying?
>
> --- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
>
> > I was guessing as to the purpose. I am sure my
> > thoughts were
> > inspired by Bolger's comments re SMS and several
> > other of his sail
> > designs being better riding than equivalent power
> > boats.
> >
> > I guess I don't see the purpose of displaying the
> > sail in picutures
> > if it is used at anchor.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> > <glasscocklanding@y...>
> > wrote:
> > If I am wrong, and a little aft
> > > sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some
> > working
> > > lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying
> > sail,
> > > I would be interested to learn about the technique
> > for
> > > doing so. Sam
> > >
> > ---------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Don, thats a good point. I wasn't trying to be a smart
Alec--I am realy wondering what the purpose of an
unbalance rig like this is underway. I just bought a
double ended salmon troller with a sailing rig with
only a staysail, like a big genoa jib--OK downwind,
but I am really wondering how to use this unbalanced
rig for steadying. Has anybody in the group had
experiance with either a staysail or aft sail for
steadying?
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Alec--I am realy wondering what the purpose of an
unbalance rig like this is underway. I just bought a
double ended salmon troller with a sailing rig with
only a staysail, like a big genoa jib--OK downwind,
but I am really wondering how to use this unbalanced
rig for steadying. Has anybody in the group had
experiance with either a staysail or aft sail for
steadying?
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
> I was guessing as to the purpose. I am sure my__________________________________
> thoughts were
> inspired by Bolger's comments re SMS and several
> other of his sail
> designs being better riding than equivalent power
> boats.
>
> I guess I don't see the purpose of displaying the
> sail in picutures
> if it is used at anchor.
>
> Don
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> If I am wrong, and a little aft
> > sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some
> working
> > lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying
> sail,
> > I would be interested to learn about the technique
> for
> > doing so. Sam
> >
> ---------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
I was guessing as to the purpose. I am sure my thoughts were
inspired by Bolger's comments re SMS and several other of his sail
designs being better riding than equivalent power boats.
I guess I don't see the purpose of displaying the sail in picutures
if it is used at anchor.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
If I am wrong, and a little aft
inspired by Bolger's comments re SMS and several other of his sail
designs being better riding than equivalent power boats.
I guess I don't see the purpose of displaying the sail in picutures
if it is used at anchor.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
If I am wrong, and a little aft
> sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some working---------------------------
> lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying sail,
> I would be interested to learn about the technique for
> doing so. Sam
>
Every sailor has experienced conditions that were miserable under
power but comfortable under sail. Sails can be an effective damper of
roll. Small sails set fairly high are/were common enough in Maine, but
I can't think how to categorize the boats that had them. Not lobster
boats. I remember clearly the boat that ferried folks from Boothbay
Harbor to Monhegan had one.
You are right that a light boat with a limited range of stability
might be put at risk if the sail is to big (or the wind too strong).
However, the light displacement and flat bottom produce a boat that
does not roll deeply, even if it may roll quickly to stay flat to the
waves.
Peter
power but comfortable under sail. Sails can be an effective damper of
roll. Small sails set fairly high are/were common enough in Maine, but
I can't think how to categorize the boats that had them. Not lobster
boats. I remember clearly the boat that ferried folks from Boothbay
Harbor to Monhegan had one.
You are right that a light boat with a limited range of stability
might be put at risk if the sail is to big (or the wind too strong).
However, the light displacement and flat bottom produce a boat that
does not roll deeply, even if it may roll quickly to stay flat to the
waves.
Peter
The stern-mounted sail on the Rosemary looks like a
riding sail to keep her steady when anchored or
working, say, a string of pots. It doesn't look to me
like it would work as a steadying sail downwind, since
it would contribute to broaching momentum. I know PB
has written about the steadying effect of a small
balanced rig in his discussion of Small Motorsailer,
which is what Bolger and Beebe call a "motor all the
time" motorsailer. If I am wrong, and a little aft
sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some working
lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying sail,
I would be interested to learn about the technique for
doing so. Sam
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
riding sail to keep her steady when anchored or
working, say, a string of pots. It doesn't look to me
like it would work as a steadying sail downwind, since
it would contribute to broaching momentum. I know PB
has written about the steadying effect of a small
balanced rig in his discussion of Small Motorsailer,
which is what Bolger and Beebe call a "motor all the
time" motorsailer. If I am wrong, and a little aft
sail like Rosemary's (and like you see on some working
lobster boats, etc.) can be used as a steadying sail,
I would be interested to learn about the technique for
doing so. Sam
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MVROSEMARY/__________________________________
>
> Several of the power cruisers pictured in the Yahoo
> group above have a
> small sail, usually set aft apparently to steady the
> boat, and reduce
> roll.
>
> Anybody tried one on any of their boats? Seems like
> one would need to
> be careful. Some supposed to steady the boat,
> shouldn't knock it
> down, and I surely wouldn't put one on a Minnesota,
> or a Michalak AF-
> 4. I'd guess its better suited to a displacement
> hull w' some depth.
>
> It impresses me as the kind of thing Bolger would
> promote if he found
> it a good idea since he speaks often in his essays
> about good ride
> quality.
>
> Even so, I've only seen one reference to paravanes
> in the essay about
> Shady Lady in BWAOM.
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MVROSEMARY/
Several of the power cruisers pictured in the Yahoo group above have a
small sail, usually set aft apparently to steady the boat, and reduce
roll.
Anybody tried one on any of their boats? Seems like one would need to
be careful. Some supposed to steady the boat, shouldn't knock it
down, and I surely wouldn't put one on a Minnesota, or a Michalak AF-
4. I'd guess its better suited to a displacement hull w' some depth.
It impresses me as the kind of thing Bolger would promote if he found
it a good idea since he speaks often in his essays about good ride
quality.
Even so, I've only seen one reference to paravanes in the essay about
Shady Lady in BWAOM.
Several of the power cruisers pictured in the Yahoo group above have a
small sail, usually set aft apparently to steady the boat, and reduce
roll.
Anybody tried one on any of their boats? Seems like one would need to
be careful. Some supposed to steady the boat, shouldn't knock it
down, and I surely wouldn't put one on a Minnesota, or a Michalak AF-
4. I'd guess its better suited to a displacement hull w' some depth.
It impresses me as the kind of thing Bolger would promote if he found
it a good idea since he speaks often in his essays about good ride
quality.
Even so, I've only seen one reference to paravanes in the essay about
Shady Lady in BWAOM.