Re: fiberglass roller/matt vs brush/cloth
--- "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...> wrote:
against epoxy fillets down to a manageable level. ;)
If I put the scraper/spatula/palette knife into the vinegar, most of
the epoxy actually dissolves. A small amount (at the edge) might get
hard, but that can be scraped off fairly easily.
The hard ones I was thinking about would be something that uses parts
of PVC pipes....
Stefan
>The vinegar tip was one of the main reasons that I got my aversion
> Stefan,
> Drop the rollers in vinegar when you are done with
> them.
against epoxy fillets down to a manageable level. ;)
If I put the scraper/spatula/palette knife into the vinegar, most of
the epoxy actually dissolves. A small amount (at the edge) might get
hard, but that can be scraped off fairly easily.
> It breaks down the liquid Epoxy and makesNo. About the soft ones, like used for painting.
> cleaning easy. We are talking about the metal ridged
> rollers aren't we?
The hard ones I was thinking about would be something that uses parts
of PVC pipes....
Stefan
>
> Gene T.
>
> --- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@o...>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, those rollers are quite expensive here, so
> > "use once, discard"
> > is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly
> > impossible. I will
> > have to think about some kind of self-made hard
> > rollers.
Stefan,
Drop the rollers in vinegar when you are done with
them. It breaks down the liquid Epoxy and makes
cleaning easy. We are talking about the metal ridged
rollers aren't we?
Gene T.
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
Drop the rollers in vinegar when you are done with
them. It breaks down the liquid Epoxy and makes
cleaning easy. We are talking about the metal ridged
rollers aren't we?
Gene T.
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
> Well, those rollers are quite expensive here, sohttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/_0TolB/TM
> "use once, discard"
> is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly
> impossible. I will
> have to think about some kind of self-made hard
> rollers.
>
> I have another question:
> The epoxy that I get here is quite thick. Using a
> brush I needed
> nearly 200 gr. (nearly a half lb) for a quarter
> sheet (i.e. 8 square
> feet).
>
> When working on interior surfaces, my main goal is
> best possible
> encapsulation and some scratch resistance. Should I
> use a squeegee
> instead of a brush to thin the layers, or could I
> use a brush, but
> then put only one thick layer on?
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> Yahoo! your home page
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
Yet another voice . . . I'm new to the group and am building a Birdwatcher II.
It is said you only learn by making mistakes, so I must know something. I've sure made
lots of mistakes. Even with System 3, cold temps mean amine formation -- I've had a
visible oily film at worst. No real harm however, just clean it up.
Forget matt, use cloth. Matt contains styrenes which dissolve in polyestyer but not in
epoxies.
Epoxy over new wood may bubble if the temperature rises. Trap the bubbles under the
cloth and they are there to stay -- foolproof method is to coat today, use a cabinet
scraper early tomorrow to get a smooth snagfree surface and smooth the cloth with your
hands before putting resin into it. Cabinet scrapers cut off the surface where the amines
form, without smearing them onto clean areas the way sandpaper does. You'll be able to
use the cabinet scraper on resin way, way too 'green' to sand.
If the surface is cool / cold, scrapers and even brushes will stretch the weave because the
epoxy becomes viscous as it hits the cool surface. My solution is to use a thick dowel and
roll it across the surface with my double-gloved hand like a rolling pin. No handle,
nothing fancy. On a curved surface, substitute a short piece of thick-walled clear plastic
hose for the dowel.
I loused up one big job by using a scraper to spread in cool conditions. The stretched
cloth crept back before the resin cured and left wrinkles -- and there's no solution for that
except to wait for a complete cure and get out the angle grinder. Aaarrghh!!!
However, a 'rolling pin' moves the resin with pure pressure and no side forces on the
cloth.
While the cloth surface is still green, fill the weave with a plastic drywall mud scraper
about 4in wide. A surface destined for paint can be filled with silica/ resin mayonnaise,
followed by cabinet scraper the next morning while it's still green. Again, the cabinet
scraper doesn't scratch, it cuts so you scrape from both sides at 45degrees to get a real
smooth surface.
If you want to finish yr boat bright, its a little more tricky. Mix some resin with only part
of the hardener and let it kick off. Then re-mix with the rest of the required dose of
hardener to make yr mayo that way. Better experiment with whatever resin you use -- It
works a treat with System 3 but I haven't tried other brands. (The 2:1 proportions are
much easier to measure than 5:1 brands, even in very small quantities -- and I use a
whole lot of small lots.)
I hate wasting resin. When I turned the hull over, I left the weave showing on the sides.
Now when I have leftover mayo from glue-ing, I trowel it into another patch of hull.
Washing to remove amines at this stage caused me no trouble at all. (This hint will be
absolutely no bloody use at all to people who are going to finish bright -- the silica makes
the surface milky.)
The Birdwatcher's slap mat under the bow needs a good bit of fairing work. Try one of
those notched spreaders used for linoleum glue -- when the resin cures, use a coarse grit
longboard to cut off the top of the ridges and then fill the valleys. Very quick!
Last idea. Clean up with methyl hydrate instead of acetone -- it's cheaper, purer and it
doesn't make you feel sick.
Eric O'Higgins, in the Queen Charlotte Islands.
edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that
down and so on
coat on a female mold and the cloth lay-ups that follow. It might work fine in a coating
application, but I'd be dubious about substituting it for cloth in any structural capacity and
I'm sceptical > bill shamblin <bshamblin2002@y...>
It is said you only learn by making mistakes, so I must know something. I've sure made
lots of mistakes. Even with System 3, cold temps mean amine formation -- I've had a
visible oily film at worst. No real harm however, just clean it up.
Forget matt, use cloth. Matt contains styrenes which dissolve in polyestyer but not in
epoxies.
Epoxy over new wood may bubble if the temperature rises. Trap the bubbles under the
cloth and they are there to stay -- foolproof method is to coat today, use a cabinet
scraper early tomorrow to get a smooth snagfree surface and smooth the cloth with your
hands before putting resin into it. Cabinet scrapers cut off the surface where the amines
form, without smearing them onto clean areas the way sandpaper does. You'll be able to
use the cabinet scraper on resin way, way too 'green' to sand.
If the surface is cool / cold, scrapers and even brushes will stretch the weave because the
epoxy becomes viscous as it hits the cool surface. My solution is to use a thick dowel and
roll it across the surface with my double-gloved hand like a rolling pin. No handle,
nothing fancy. On a curved surface, substitute a short piece of thick-walled clear plastic
hose for the dowel.
I loused up one big job by using a scraper to spread in cool conditions. The stretched
cloth crept back before the resin cured and left wrinkles -- and there's no solution for that
except to wait for a complete cure and get out the angle grinder. Aaarrghh!!!
However, a 'rolling pin' moves the resin with pure pressure and no side forces on the
cloth.
While the cloth surface is still green, fill the weave with a plastic drywall mud scraper
about 4in wide. A surface destined for paint can be filled with silica/ resin mayonnaise,
followed by cabinet scraper the next morning while it's still green. Again, the cabinet
scraper doesn't scratch, it cuts so you scrape from both sides at 45degrees to get a real
smooth surface.
If you want to finish yr boat bright, its a little more tricky. Mix some resin with only part
of the hardener and let it kick off. Then re-mix with the rest of the required dose of
hardener to make yr mayo that way. Better experiment with whatever resin you use -- It
works a treat with System 3 but I haven't tried other brands. (The 2:1 proportions are
much easier to measure than 5:1 brands, even in very small quantities -- and I use a
whole lot of small lots.)
I hate wasting resin. When I turned the hull over, I left the weave showing on the sides.
Now when I have leftover mayo from glue-ing, I trowel it into another patch of hull.
Washing to remove amines at this stage caused me no trouble at all. (This hint will be
absolutely no bloody use at all to people who are going to finish bright -- the silica makes
the surface milky.)
The Birdwatcher's slap mat under the bow needs a good bit of fairing work. Try one of
those notched spreaders used for linoleum glue -- when the resin cures, use a coarse grit
longboard to cut off the top of the ridges and then fill the valleys. Very quick!
Last idea. Clean up with methyl hydrate instead of acetone -- it's cheaper, purer and it
doesn't make you feel sick.
Eric O'Higgins, in the Queen Charlotte Islands.
>showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight
> bill shamblin <bshamblin2002@y...> wrote:
> as a fibreglassing beginner im excited to pass on this tip.
>
>
>
> last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who
edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that
down and so on
>its use. It is used in fiberglass boat construction to provide a smooth layer between the gel
> I'm certainly no expert, but I have some experience:
>
>
>
> 1) I've never used mat, and no design I've built or contemplated building has specified
coat on a female mold and the cloth lay-ups that follow. It might work fine in a coating
application, but I'd be dubious about substituting it for cloth in any structural capacity and
I'm sceptical > bill shamblin <bshamblin2002@y...>
Most all epoxy resins will crystalise like old honey. Instead of the
microwave I would suggest a hot water bath.
HJ
Clyde Wisner wrote:
microwave I would suggest a hot water bath.
HJ
Clyde Wisner wrote:
>I've never experienced this amine blush with Sys Three and I've used a
>fair amount of it, some so old that I had to warm the resin in a
>microwave to break up or disolve white crystal like masses.(if you do
>this, let it cool before using, it will kick off very quickly if the
>resin is hot or even warm when you mix hardener) Clyde
>
>William Page wrote:
>
>
>
>>Ron Butterfield <ronb_5@...> wrote:
>>I should have clarified that you also put a coat of epoxy on top of the
>>cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least
>>dried.
>>Bill sez:
>>
>>
>>
>>There is a body of thought out there that a cured coat of epoxy leaves
>>an "amine blush" on it surface that impedes bonding to the second
>>coat. More alarmingly, it is claimed that this "amine blush" can only
>>be removed with water (assisted by a Scotch-Brite pad, or equivalent),
>>not by sanding ("just grinds the amines into the surface"). Depending
>>upon confirguation of pieces, working schedule, etc., washing a
>>component in water is not always a very attractive option!
>>
>> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
I've never experienced this amine blush with Sys Three and I've used a
fair amount of it, some so old that I had to warm the resin in a
microwave to break up or disolve white crystal like masses.(if you do
this, let it cool before using, it will kick off very quickly if the
resin is hot or even warm when you mix hardener) Clyde
William Page wrote:
fair amount of it, some so old that I had to warm the resin in a
microwave to break up or disolve white crystal like masses.(if you do
this, let it cool before using, it will kick off very quickly if the
resin is hot or even warm when you mix hardener) Clyde
William Page wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Ron Butterfield <ronb_5@...> wrote:
> I should have clarified that you also put a coat of epoxy on top of the
> cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least
> dried.
> Bill sez:
>
>
>
> There is a body of thought out there that a cured coat of epoxy leaves
> an "amine blush" on it surface that impedes bonding to the second
> coat. More alarmingly, it is claimed that this "amine blush" can only
> be removed with water (assisted by a Scotch-Brite pad, or equivalent),
> not by sanding ("just grinds the amines into the surface"). Depending
> upon confirguation of pieces, working schedule, etc., washing a
> component in water is not always a very attractive option!
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Ron Butterfield <ronb_5@...> wrote:
I should have clarified that you also put a coat of epoxy on top of the
cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least dried.
Bill sez:
There is a body of thought out there that a cured coat of epoxy leaves an "amine blush" on it surface that impedes bonding to the second coat. More alarmingly, it is claimed that this "amine blush" can only be removed with water (assisted by a Scotch-Brite pad, or equivalent), not by sanding ("just grinds the amines into the surface"). Depending upon confirguation of pieces, working schedule, etc., washing a component in water is not always a very attractive option!
I've tried the technique of applying cloth over a cured coat of epoxy a couple of times on a few small parts and encountered difficulty. The cured first coats were "snaggy" and caused the cloth to stretch were I didn't want it to stretch. The jokes about a "board stretcher" will be familiar to any novice who cut a board to short and presented to a carpenter. Perhaps workers with fiberglass have jokes about the "cloth shrinker".
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I should have clarified that you also put a coat of epoxy on top of the
cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least dried.
Bill sez:
There is a body of thought out there that a cured coat of epoxy leaves an "amine blush" on it surface that impedes bonding to the second coat. More alarmingly, it is claimed that this "amine blush" can only be removed with water (assisted by a Scotch-Brite pad, or equivalent), not by sanding ("just grinds the amines into the surface"). Depending upon confirguation of pieces, working schedule, etc., washing a component in water is not always a very attractive option!
I've tried the technique of applying cloth over a cured coat of epoxy a couple of times on a few small parts and encountered difficulty. The cured first coats were "snaggy" and caused the cloth to stretch were I didn't want it to stretch. The jokes about a "board stretcher" will be familiar to any novice who cut a board to short and presented to a carpenter. Perhaps workers with fiberglass have jokes about the "cloth shrinker".
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
At 09:49 PM 10/29/05, I wrote:
cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least dried.
Regards,
RonB (the one in NC)
>If you put a coat of epoxy on the bare wood, then put the cloth on that andI should have clarified that you also put a coat of epoxy on top of the
>squeegee the excess epoxy out, that problem does not appear.
cloth, and that the cloth is applied after the first coat has at least dried.
Regards,
RonB (the one in NC)
At 09:22 PM 10/28/05, William wrote:
that, if you don't "prime" the wood with epoxy first, the amount of epoxy
held by the cloth will be insufficient to provide proper penetration into
the wood.
If you put a coat of epoxy on the bare wood, then put the cloth on that and
squeegee the excess epoxy out, that problem does not appear.
It is one more step, though.
Regards,
RonB (the one in NC)
>5) dry v. wet - It is easier to smooth cloth over a dry, smoothly sandedA detail about this that I remember from Gilespie's book on strip canoes is
>surface than one that has been wetted with epoxy. However, there is a body
>of opinion that holds that this can leave the cloth starved for resin at
>the wood-glass interface.
that, if you don't "prime" the wood with epoxy first, the amount of epoxy
held by the cloth will be insufficient to provide proper penetration into
the wood.
If you put a coat of epoxy on the bare wood, then put the cloth on that and
squeegee the excess epoxy out, that problem does not appear.
It is one more step, though.
Regards,
RonB (the one in NC)
bill shamblin <bshamblin2002@...> wrote:
as a fibreglassing beginner im excited to pass on this tip.
last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that down and so on
I'm certainly no expert, but I have some experience:
1) I've never used mat, and no design I've built or contemplated building has specified its use. It is used in fiberglass boat construction to provide a smooth layer between the gel coat on a female mold and the cloth lay-ups that follow. It might work fine in a coating application, but I'd be dubious about substituting it for cloth in any structural capacity and I'm sceptical about the supposed virtues of "encapsulating" wood in epoxy;
2) When I covered a strip canoe, I was able to cover the exterior from gunwale to gunwale with a single piece of cloth, set at an angle, so that the cloth was "on the bias" - i.e. the warp and woof ran at an angle to the axis of the boat. This was a tip I picked from the Minnesota Canoe Assn.'s excellent guide to building strippers. The cloth is stretchiest at a 45 degree angle to the threads. The width of the cloth available made it necessary to use a much smaller angle, but it was adequate to get the cloth to conform easily to the curved shape. (I've forgotten how I glassed the interior - its been a long time!);
3) I think that it is important to avoid distorting the weave of the cloth before wetting out. I find it very useful when laying out cloth to roll the cloth around a suitable roller, then unroll over the piece to be laminated. I used a discarded piece of 2" PVC pipe on my latest project, but anything round will do.
4) If I manage to get the cloth laid out smoothly, I've rarely had problems with bubbles or wrinkles. Just start at the center and work progressively outward toward the edges, displacing the weave of the cloth as little as possible/necessary.
5) dry v. wet - It is easier to smooth cloth over a dry, smoothly sanded surface than one that has been wetted with epoxy. However, there is a body of opinion that holds that this can leave the cloth starved for resin at the wood-glass interface. I've been a sceptic about this, noting that the penetration of the West epoxy I use into the wood is very limited and the cloth would seem to hold an adequate reservoir of resin to ensure no starvation (at least if the piece is horizontal, and the cloth on the "up" side). However, I recently had an experience that gave me second thoughts, so I've reverted to the "wet-surface" lay-up technique. The insidious thing about starvation at the wood-cloth interface is that it can be invisible unless you start sanding through the glass - a form of destructive and self-defeating testing that no one is going to do intentionally;
6) brushes v. rollers v. squeegees: I've always used disposable brushes to wet out cloth. Rollers consisting of spaced washers are available from any number sources for this purpose. I've never tried them, although I think I have a small one on hand somewhere. The idea, I infer, is to apply a lot of pressure to the cloth. This is probably more important were several layers of cloth are being laid up, as in conventional fiberglass construction, than when laying a single layer on a wood structure. I've never used any kind of squeegee to wet out cloth - I'd be worried about dragging and distorting the cloth, other folks have reported good results, so it may just be a matter of correct technique. I have used small plastic squeegees to fill the weave on the second coating, with mixed results, on my current project. But I'm still learning.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
as a fibreglassing beginner im excited to pass on this tip.
last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that down and so on
I'm certainly no expert, but I have some experience:
1) I've never used mat, and no design I've built or contemplated building has specified its use. It is used in fiberglass boat construction to provide a smooth layer between the gel coat on a female mold and the cloth lay-ups that follow. It might work fine in a coating application, but I'd be dubious about substituting it for cloth in any structural capacity and I'm sceptical about the supposed virtues of "encapsulating" wood in epoxy;
2) When I covered a strip canoe, I was able to cover the exterior from gunwale to gunwale with a single piece of cloth, set at an angle, so that the cloth was "on the bias" - i.e. the warp and woof ran at an angle to the axis of the boat. This was a tip I picked from the Minnesota Canoe Assn.'s excellent guide to building strippers. The cloth is stretchiest at a 45 degree angle to the threads. The width of the cloth available made it necessary to use a much smaller angle, but it was adequate to get the cloth to conform easily to the curved shape. (I've forgotten how I glassed the interior - its been a long time!);
3) I think that it is important to avoid distorting the weave of the cloth before wetting out. I find it very useful when laying out cloth to roll the cloth around a suitable roller, then unroll over the piece to be laminated. I used a discarded piece of 2" PVC pipe on my latest project, but anything round will do.
4) If I manage to get the cloth laid out smoothly, I've rarely had problems with bubbles or wrinkles. Just start at the center and work progressively outward toward the edges, displacing the weave of the cloth as little as possible/necessary.
5) dry v. wet - It is easier to smooth cloth over a dry, smoothly sanded surface than one that has been wetted with epoxy. However, there is a body of opinion that holds that this can leave the cloth starved for resin at the wood-glass interface. I've been a sceptic about this, noting that the penetration of the West epoxy I use into the wood is very limited and the cloth would seem to hold an adequate reservoir of resin to ensure no starvation (at least if the piece is horizontal, and the cloth on the "up" side). However, I recently had an experience that gave me second thoughts, so I've reverted to the "wet-surface" lay-up technique. The insidious thing about starvation at the wood-cloth interface is that it can be invisible unless you start sanding through the glass - a form of destructive and self-defeating testing that no one is going to do intentionally;
6) brushes v. rollers v. squeegees: I've always used disposable brushes to wet out cloth. Rollers consisting of spaced washers are available from any number sources for this purpose. I've never tried them, although I think I have a small one on hand somewhere. The idea, I infer, is to apply a lot of pressure to the cloth. This is probably more important were several layers of cloth are being laid up, as in conventional fiberglass construction, than when laying a single layer on a wood structure. I've never used any kind of squeegee to wet out cloth - I'd be worried about dragging and distorting the cloth, other folks have reported good results, so it may just be a matter of correct technique. I have used small plastic squeegees to fill the weave on the second coating, with mixed results, on my current project. But I'm still learning.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll chime in with a vote for the plastic squeegee. I find I have more
control over the resin, and can do the job with less resin than with a
roller. The squeegee also doesn't leave tiny bits of foam in the
resin. This works just fine on any surface, but is especially useful
on vertical surfaces like the sides of the canoe. The thin coating
doesn't drool and sag -- it needs an additional coat or two, but
there's far less sanding and a lighter boat in the end.
I've always used cloth almost (always 6 oz) to cover cedar strips or
plywood. My understanding is that mat is best used between layers of
heavier cloth or roving to fill the air spaces -- this would be for an
all glass hull I expect. I've also read that mat, and some cloth, has
a coating on it to hold it together until it is covered with polyester
resin (known in some hardware stores as fibreglass resin). The styrene
(I think) in the polyester dissolves this coating and then resin bonds
well to the mat, but epoxy doesn't contain this, so the mat's coating
doesn't dissolve so the bond is not as good.
Jamie Orr
control over the resin, and can do the job with less resin than with a
roller. The squeegee also doesn't leave tiny bits of foam in the
resin. This works just fine on any surface, but is especially useful
on vertical surfaces like the sides of the canoe. The thin coating
doesn't drool and sag -- it needs an additional coat or two, but
there's far less sanding and a lighter boat in the end.
I've always used cloth almost (always 6 oz) to cover cedar strips or
plywood. My understanding is that mat is best used between layers of
heavier cloth or roving to fill the air spaces -- this would be for an
all glass hull I expect. I've also read that mat, and some cloth, has
a coating on it to hold it together until it is covered with polyester
resin (known in some hardware stores as fibreglass resin). The styrene
(I think) in the polyester dissolves this coating and then resin bonds
well to the mat, but epoxy doesn't contain this, so the mat's coating
doesn't dissolve so the bond is not as good.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> >
> > I have personally never had a problem with bubbles or wrinkles
laying
> > down cloth. I lay dry, pour on resin and move it with a plastic
> squeegee.
> >
> > HJ
> >
> Does this work OK on sloped or rounded surfaces - like cedar stripped
> canoes for example? This is where I find the roller to work best for
> me - rolling on the resin like paint and rolling out any runs. Also I
> use very light glass and have no experience with roving or mat. Some
> experience with kevlar,
>
> Nels
>
At 03:32 PM 10/28/05, you wrote:
from the center and worked the epoxy down toward the edge. I found
that if I was a bit too aggressive with the scraping action I worked
microscopic air bubbles into the epoxy, giving a cloudy effect.
Regards,
RonB
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:When I built my canoe, this is exactly the method I used. I started
> > I have personally never had a problem with bubbles or wrinkles laying
> > down cloth. I lay dry, pour on resin and move it with a plastic squeegee.
> >
>Does this work OK on sloped or rounded surfaces - like cedar stripped
>canoes for example?
from the center and worked the epoxy down toward the edge. I found
that if I was a bit too aggressive with the scraping action I worked
microscopic air bubbles into the epoxy, giving a cloudy effect.
Regards,
RonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
canoes for example? This is where I find the roller to work best for
me - rolling on the resin like paint and rolling out any runs. Also I
use very light glass and have no experience with roving or mat. Some
experience with kevlar,
Nels
>squeegee.
> I have personally never had a problem with bubbles or wrinkles laying
> down cloth. I lay dry, pour on resin and move it with a plastic
>Does this work OK on sloped or rounded surfaces - like cedar stripped
> HJ
>
canoes for example? This is where I find the roller to work best for
me - rolling on the resin like paint and rolling out any runs. Also I
use very light glass and have no experience with roving or mat. Some
experience with kevlar,
Nels
A friend in the days of long ago had reuseable
rollers. They were round doughnut-like pieces of nylon
which were machined to a point. A series of them
fitted over a mandral. The whole contraption was like
a small paint roller with ridges (the nylon
doughnuts.) It seemed to work well for impregnating
the mat and the cloth with resin.
I don't know if they are still avialable or where
you'd get them. Their chief charm was that they were
reuseable.
Phil Smith
rollers. They were round doughnut-like pieces of nylon
which were machined to a point. A series of them
fitted over a mandral. The whole contraption was like
a small paint roller with ridges (the nylon
doughnuts.) It seemed to work well for impregnating
the mat and the cloth with resin.
I don't know if they are still avialable or where
you'd get them. Their chief charm was that they were
reuseable.
Phil Smith
Eight ounces (half a pound) for 32 square feet for the first coat on soft
wood plywood is exactly what System Three suggests for estimating
requirements.
Off-line I've sent you a table I extracted from their data. Sorry about the
English units, we're not that Frenchified in Indiana.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
wood plywood is exactly what System Three suggests for estimating
requirements.
Off-line I've sent you a table I extracted from their data. Sorry about the
English units, we're not that Frenchified in Indiana.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
> I have another question:
> The epoxy that I get here is quite thick. Using a brush I needed
> nearly 200 gr. (nearly a half lb) for a quarter sheet (i.e. 8 square
> feet).
Most of the fiberglassing I have done has been in
cooler temperatures - 60 degrees F. or so. Even
low-viscosity resin was thick. Best results and
economy of epoxy was using a plastic squeegee. Easier
to avoid bubbles and voids.
Paul
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
cooler temperatures - 60 degrees F. or so. Even
low-viscosity resin was thick. Best results and
economy of epoxy was using a plastic squeegee. Easier
to avoid bubbles and voids.
Paul
--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:
> Well, those rollers are quite expensive here, so__________________________________
> "use once, discard"
> is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly
> impossible. I will
> have to think about some kind of self-made hard
> rollers.
>
> I have another question:
> The epoxy that I get here is quite thick. Using a
> brush I needed
> nearly 200 gr. (nearly a half lb) for a quarter
> sheet (i.e. 8 square
> feet).
>
> When working on interior surfaces, my main goal is
> best possible
> encapsulation and some scratch resistance. Should I
> use a squeegee
> instead of a brush to thin the layers, or could I
> use a brush, but
> then put only one thick layer on?
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
I have personally never had a problem with bubbles or wrinkles laying
down cloth. I lay dry, pour on resin and move it with a plastic squeegee.
HJ
bill shamblin wrote:
down cloth. I lay dry, pour on resin and move it with a plastic squeegee.
HJ
bill shamblin wrote:
>as a fibreglassing beginner im excited to pass on this tip. no doubt most builders are way beyond such floundering.
>
>i'd become frustrated with covering wood with fiberglass using the brush and cloth method because of bubbles and wrinkles.. last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that down and so on............. more liquid if you see fibers. no bubbles.
>
>i am reinspired to build and cover.
>
>bill shamblin
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> trowell like Bruce mentions may be useful. The serrated kind that areI have tried a brush, a roller, a plastic squeege & a serrated trowel
> used to spread adhesive perhaps?
and didn't like any of them.
By far my favorite is a wide 'drywall taping knife'.
http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0205drywall8.jpg
Mostly because it seems to use the least epoxy, and gives a smoother result.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...> wrote:
find are quite cheap. The epoxy you are using seems quite thick, so a
trowell like Bruce mentions may be useful. The serrated kind that are
used to spread adhesive perhaps? I have never used a brush and this is
the first time I have heard of using one.
Nels
>I use mostly a 4" roller and cut 8" foam roller covers in half which I
> Well, those rollers are quite expensive here, so "use once, discard"
> is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly impossible. I will
> have to think about some kind of self-made hard rollers.
>
find are quite cheap. The epoxy you are using seems quite thick, so a
trowell like Bruce mentions may be useful. The serrated kind that are
used to spread adhesive perhaps? I have never used a brush and this is
the first time I have heard of using one.
Nels
Well, those rollers are quite expensive here, so "use once, discard"
is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly impossible. I will
have to think about some kind of self-made hard rollers.
I have another question:
The epoxy that I get here is quite thick. Using a brush I needed
nearly 200 gr. (nearly a half lb) for a quarter sheet (i.e. 8 square
feet).
When working on interior surfaces, my main goal is best possible
encapsulation and some scratch resistance. Should I use a squeegee
instead of a brush to thin the layers, or could I use a brush, but
then put only one thick layer on?
Thanks,
Stefan
is no option for me. And cleaning them seems fairly impossible. I will
have to think about some kind of self-made hard rollers.
I have another question:
The epoxy that I get here is quite thick. Using a brush I needed
nearly 200 gr. (nearly a half lb) for a quarter sheet (i.e. 8 square
feet).
When working on interior surfaces, my main goal is best possible
encapsulation and some scratch resistance. Should I use a squeegee
instead of a brush to thin the layers, or could I use a brush, but
then put only one thick layer on?
Thanks,
Stefan
> pass on this tipGood tip.
=
My favorite fiberglassing tip, (learned from Rick Bedard's posts) is
to apply the epoxy to the cloth in two steps
The first step is to just glue the cloth to the wood spreading the
epoxy on dry cloth using a wide drywall taping knife.
The second step, only after the first epoxy starts getting hard, go
back and fill the weave of the cloth with more resin, again using a
wide drywall taping knife.
Trying to fill the weave on the first pass is only trouble.
as a fibreglassing beginner im excited to pass on this tip. no doubt most builders are way beyond such floundering.
i'd become frustrated with covering wood with fiberglass using the brush and cloth method because of bubbles and wrinkles.. last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that down and so on............. more liquid if you see fibers. no bubbles.
i am reinspired to build and cover.
bill shamblin
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i'd become frustrated with covering wood with fiberglass using the brush and cloth method because of bubbles and wrinkles.. last week we built canoe sponsons under direction of an old boatshop owner who showed how to use a 4" roller on 8ish inch pieces of torn mat "with no square/straight edges". roll the wood. roll down one circle, half cover it with another circle and roll that down and so on............. more liquid if you see fibers. no bubbles.
i am reinspired to build and cover.
bill shamblin
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]