Re: [bolger] Re: Smaller BW-type boat?
> Super Mousehttp://community.webshots.com/album/508738461gJTgAm
> sure is fun to think about though...
Shows pictures of a model of Super Mouse
Dave Gerr in "The Nature of Boats" makes exactly that point. He discusses
"little big boats" and "big little boats" and suggests that adding a few
feet to the LOA and LWL can yield huge benefits for little added cost
(neglecting dock fees).
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
"little big boats" and "big little boats" and suggests that adding a few
feet to the LOA and LWL can yield huge benefits for little added cost
(neglecting dock fees).
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...>
>I ordered a set of Super Mouse plans a couple of years ago. I was
>enchanted
> by the cockpit/cabin, but when I started figuring how much ply wood the
> design ate up and the low sailing speed imposed by a short wide boat with
> a
> less than optimum rug, I figured I sould build a more capable (if less
> charming) boat for the same cost. Short, wide boats are expensive for
> their
> length; squeezing a quart into a pint pot turns out to cost nearly as
> much
> as a quart pot. As a consequence, I went in other directions. Super
> Mouse
> sure is fun to think about though...
>
> John T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Smaller BW-type boat?
>
>
>>> pickup truck camper shell (only half-joking). But a Brick with a
>>> clamp-on greenhouse would fit the bill.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>
>> That is now starting to sound like a Superbrick!
>>
>> I realize that the curved plywood strakes of the Supermouse'
>> hull *seem* like a lot of work, but if you can accept the fact
>> that curved strakes require less accuracy [because they lap]
>> then you can take advantage of that ease. Building with
>> lap strakes can be just as fast as the 'Instant boat' building
>> [which actually require tighter and more time consuming accuracy].
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>> horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>> (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date:
>> 11/11/2005
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I ordered a set of Super Mouse plans a couple of years ago. I was enchanted
by the cockpit/cabin, but when I started figuring how much ply wood the
design ate up and the low sailing speed imposed by a short wide boat with a
less than optimum rug, I figured I sould build a more capable (if less
charming) boat for the same cost. Short, wide boats are expensive for their
length; squeezing a quart into a pint pot turns out to cost nearly as much
as a quart pot. As a consequence, I went in other directions. Super Mouse
sure is fun to think about though...
John T
by the cockpit/cabin, but when I started figuring how much ply wood the
design ate up and the low sailing speed imposed by a short wide boat with a
less than optimum rug, I figured I sould build a more capable (if less
charming) boat for the same cost. Short, wide boats are expensive for their
length; squeezing a quart into a pint pot turns out to cost nearly as much
as a quart pot. As a consequence, I went in other directions. Super Mouse
sure is fun to think about though...
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Smaller BW-type boat?
>> pickup truck camper shell (only half-joking). But a Brick with a
>> clamp-on greenhouse would fit the bill.
>>
>> Justin
>
> That is now starting to sound like a Superbrick!
>
> I realize that the curved plywood strakes of the Supermouse'
> hull *seem* like a lot of work, but if you can accept the fact
> that curved strakes require less accuracy [because they lap]
> then you can take advantage of that ease. Building with
> lap strakes can be just as fast as the 'Instant boat' building
> [which actually require tighter and more time consuming accuracy].
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005
>
>
>Superminimicrobrickwatcher, or PD Oceanracer.
> That is now starting to sound like a Superbrick!
>
> I realize that the curved plywood strakes of the Supermouse'In a couple of years I will have a garage and will build Supermouse,
> hull *seem* like a lot of work, but if you can accept the fact
> that curved strakes require less accuracy [because they lap]
> then you can take advantage of that ease. Building with
> lap strakes can be just as fast as the 'Instant boat' building
> [which actually require tighter and more time consuming accuracy].
hoping for a high level of finish.
Justin
> pickup truck camper shell (only half-joking). But a Brick with aThat is now starting to sound like a Superbrick!
> clamp-on greenhouse would fit the bill.
>
> Justin
I realize that the curved plywood strakes of the Supermouse'
hull *seem* like a lot of work, but if you can accept the fact
that curved strakes require less accuracy [because they lap]
then you can take advantage of that ease. Building with
lap strakes can be just as fast as the 'Instant boat' building
[which actually require tighter and more time consuming accuracy].
Nice idea,
Maybe I could build a Brick, dimensions to suit an abandoned
pickup truck camper shell (only half-joking). But a Brick with a
clamp-on greenhouse would fit the bill.
Justin
Maybe I could build a Brick, dimensions to suit an abandoned
pickup truck camper shell (only half-joking). But a Brick with a
clamp-on greenhouse would fit the bill.
Justin
>
> Justin, as odd as it may sound Bolger's Brick would lend itself to a
> Birdwatcher style cabin.
> How much did you pay for the Housemouse plans?I got Housemouse and Lake Launch (the 15'er not the 40ish'er) together
for $200. I think it was $100 each, but I dont remember for sure.
Justin
Just to clarify, a "strict" BW-type boat would not have an open cockpit.
The original poster is looking for essentially a smaller BW (as I read the post).
A slot-top cabin does not a BW make.
Under this definition, neither the AF3 or Toon 2 would fit the bill.
The original poster is looking for essentially a smaller BW (as I read the post).
A slot-top cabin does not a BW make.
Under this definition, neither the AF3 or Toon 2 would fit the bill.
Justin, as odd as it may sound Bolger's Brick would lend itself to a
Birdwatcher style cabin. While admitidly slow the design is stable,
small, could be entered form a dock or loading ramp with dry feet.
Try using the Supermouse configeration. I have looked at a cabin on
my Brick and a forward ceilling height of tweleve inches aboue the
gunnel is possible with the standard sail. I have also found I need
fourteen inches above the gunnel to sit very comfortably in my bean
bag chair. So It may be possible. I think this would create a new
Brick model capable of camp cruising and overnighting aboard. I also
use a trolling motor mounted on the bow, but positioned to pull the
boat forward, using the tiller to steer. I have a yellow car jumper
battery to power the motor, a Pleuger M-15, not fast but it beats
rowing when the wind dies, stranding you across the lake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...>
wrote:
Birdwatcher style cabin. While admitidly slow the design is stable,
small, could be entered form a dock or loading ramp with dry feet.
Try using the Supermouse configeration. I have looked at a cabin on
my Brick and a forward ceilling height of tweleve inches aboue the
gunnel is possible with the standard sail. I have also found I need
fourteen inches above the gunnel to sit very comfortably in my bean
bag chair. So It may be possible. I think this would create a new
Brick model capable of camp cruising and overnighting aboard. I also
use a trolling motor mounted on the bow, but positioned to pull the
boat forward, using the tiller to steer. I have a yellow car jumper
battery to power the motor, a Pleuger M-15, not fast but it beats
rowing when the wind dies, stranding you across the lake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for the ideas.
> I have a set of Supermouse plans,
> but no place to build a project that requires that sort of
> care right now. I want nail and glue instant construction
> for this boat.
> BTW, when I got the plans from PCB he told me
> that they now call it Housemouse.
>
> I like JBjr, but it has more volume than I was thinking.
> The other house Michalaks are less handsome.
>
> Ideal size for me would be EEK! with a canopy bubble,
> but it lacks cold water stability and probably could
> not be entered from a dock (want to keep feets dry).
> I do enjoy reclining in the bilges to sail.
> Since it would have to live on a trailer (no cartopping
> with a house) maybe an EEK! tri with more sail area.
>
> Better go look at Tri-Lars now, but I realy don't like
> the looks of the Michalak warped vees.
>
> thanks again all, more chin scratching to come...
>
> Justin
>
Hi Justin,
Now that you have provided more details, I would certainly consider
Windsprint as a possibility. I would incorparate one pivoting
leeboard like Michalak uses on several of his designs and would have
to modify the rudder/tiller connection so it would function inside
the enclosed raised deck.
I would have the raised slot top designed to the same relative
proportions as the full-sized Birdwatcher. During light winds and
sunshine one could sit on top of the roof with feet in the bilge.
When it got cold or windy one then recline on a boat cushion in the
bilges. (Or "hunker down" as they call it down south in the
hurricane areas:-)
A person could even add the stern sponsons like Birdwatcher II and
have a small motor as well as oar ports on each side.
The lug rig is an excellent candidate for a simple poly sail.
We could re-name it SHB (Single-handed Birdwatcher:-)
How much did you pay for the Housemouse plans?
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...> >
Now that you have provided more details, I would certainly consider
Windsprint as a possibility. I would incorparate one pivoting
leeboard like Michalak uses on several of his designs and would have
to modify the rudder/tiller connection so it would function inside
the enclosed raised deck.
I would have the raised slot top designed to the same relative
proportions as the full-sized Birdwatcher. During light winds and
sunshine one could sit on top of the roof with feet in the bilge.
When it got cold or windy one then recline on a boat cushion in the
bilges. (Or "hunker down" as they call it down south in the
hurricane areas:-)
A person could even add the stern sponsons like Birdwatcher II and
have a small motor as well as oar ports on each side.
The lug rig is an excellent candidate for a simple poly sail.
We could re-name it SHB (Single-handed Birdwatcher:-)
How much did you pay for the Housemouse plans?
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...> >
> Ideal size for me would be EEK! with a canopy bubble,
> but it lacks cold water stability and probably could
> not be entered from a dock (want to keep feets dry).
> I do enjoy reclining in the bilges to sail.
> Since it would have to live on a trailer (no cartopping
> with a house) maybe an EEK! tri with more sail area.
>
> Better go look at Tri-Lars now, but I realy don't like
> the looks of the Michalak warped vees.
>
> thanks again all, more chin scratching to come...
>
> Justin
>
Thanks everyone for the ideas.
I have a set of Supermouse plans,
but no place to build a project that requires that sort of
care right now. I want nail and glue instant construction
for this boat.
BTW, when I got the plans from PCB he told me
that they now call it Housemouse.
I like JBjr, but it has more volume than I was thinking.
The other house Michalaks are less handsome.
Ideal size for me would be EEK! with a canopy bubble,
but it lacks cold water stability and probably could
not be entered from a dock (want to keep feets dry).
I do enjoy reclining in the bilges to sail.
Since it would have to live on a trailer (no cartopping
with a house) maybe an EEK! tri with more sail area.
Better go look at Tri-Lars now, but I realy don't like
the looks of the Michalak warped vees.
thanks again all, more chin scratching to come...
Justin
I have a set of Supermouse plans,
but no place to build a project that requires that sort of
care right now. I want nail and glue instant construction
for this boat.
BTW, when I got the plans from PCB he told me
that they now call it Housemouse.
I like JBjr, but it has more volume than I was thinking.
The other house Michalaks are less handsome.
Ideal size for me would be EEK! with a canopy bubble,
but it lacks cold water stability and probably could
not be entered from a dock (want to keep feets dry).
I do enjoy reclining in the bilges to sail.
Since it would have to live on a trailer (no cartopping
with a house) maybe an EEK! tri with more sail area.
Better go look at Tri-Lars now, but I realy don't like
the looks of the Michalak warped vees.
thanks again all, more chin scratching to come...
Justin
Well, everyone seems to be jumping in so . . .
Michalak's AF3 is a flat bottomed boat like Jewelbox Jr but with a
pointy bow and his Toon 2 is a multichined BW type of about the same
size. Also Michalak originally converted his Bolger Jimmi (which I
think is around 16 feet), to a BW cabin/ but I've forgotton if that's a
pointy stern like Windsprint or square like Surf . . .
Gary Blankenship
Michalak's AF3 is a flat bottomed boat like Jewelbox Jr but with a
pointy bow and his Toon 2 is a multichined BW type of about the same
size. Also Michalak originally converted his Bolger Jimmi (which I
think is around 16 feet), to a BW cabin/ but I've forgotton if that's a
pointy stern like Windsprint or square like Surf . . .
Gary Blankenship
And three isometric renderings of Supermouse
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_1.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_2.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_3.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_1.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_2.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/3D_3.jpg
> Jim Michalak's...has made lots of slot top designs.
The smallest Bolger slot top which I would favor is
Supermouse, 11'6". He about wrote this in his
book, _Boats with an Open Mind_, I recall.
Although it is curvy, I can attest that plywood
lapstrake can be a very quick and easy build.
linesplan at
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/supermouseLP.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/Supermouse.gif
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/Supermouse2.gif
and a quick and dirty Free!ship file
http://hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/supermouse.fbm
Jim Michalak's IMB (13.5'), Philsboat (15'), and Jewelbox Jr. (15')
have already been mentioned.
I'll add Scram Pram (16') to the list. These are all 16' LOA or less,
flat-bottom or multichine, with water ballast or without, sprit or lug
sail depending on the design. The JB Jr. design shows oar ports I
think. I don't know about the others.
Double-enders like Teal or Windsprint will have less room than the pram
designs of the same length.
Available at www.duckworksmagazine.com or directly from Jim.
Regards,
have already been mentioned.
I'll add Scram Pram (16') to the list. These are all 16' LOA or less,
flat-bottom or multichine, with water ballast or without, sprit or lug
sail depending on the design. The JB Jr. design shows oar ports I
think. I don't know about the others.
Double-enders like Teal or Windsprint will have less room than the pram
designs of the same length.
Available at www.duckworksmagazine.com or directly from Jim.
Regards,
A Michalak Jewelbox Jr is 15' LOA, has an 8' x 40" "cabin" with flat sleeping area and enough room under the two decked compartments to hold gear and supplies for a week or more. Leeboard and kick-up rudder sure make everything clean and simple. I feel it is the quickest and most economical "Birdwatcher" you can build. See the Michalak groups for 80 some photos of mine under construction in my driveway and under sail. Three weekends from a small pile of plywood to a boat.
Rick
Rick
> > protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.PCB's Camper is a smaller Birdwatcher. Most, it's shorter due to a
square stern. Not as small as you want, though, I'm guessing.
Jim Michalak's "IMB". I started construction on one before building my AF4.
Neat boat and concept.
Neat boat and concept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:54 PM
Subject: [bolger] Smaller BW-type boat?
>
> Has anyone given any thought to a Surf/Windsprint/Teal
> with a birdwatcher house? I want a winter singlehanded daysailer for
> protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.
>
> Any other designs out there?
>
> Windsprint seems to be a logical starting place. It has the
> centerboard already (seems like a better match to the use than
> leeboards) and I would be willing to give up a
> little of the sail area at the foot of the lug sail to clear the
> house.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Has anyone given any thought to a Surf/Windsprint/TealAsk Jim Michalak --
>with a birdwatcher house? I want a winter singlehanded daysailer for
>protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.
>
>Any other designs out there?
>
>Windsprint seems to be a logical starting place. It has the
>centerboard already (seems like a better match to the use than
>leeboards) and I would be willing to give up a
>little of the sail area at the foot of the lug sail to clear the
>house.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Justin
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Justin
Windsprint, at least in the version shown in Payson's "Build the New Instant
boats" has a daggerboard, not a centreboard. Which is not to say that you
couldn't redesign that element, but as it stands it isn't compatible with a
roof.
Currently, I'm having some fun 'Birdwatchering' Jim Michalak's 11 x 4 foot
Piccup Pram [progress picture seen on Jim's page at
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15oct05.htm] but that's not a design,
and Jim's certainly not to blame :)
Why not draw up a house for the Windsprint and move the board under the
slot? Go for it!
cheers
Derek
Windsprint, at least in the version shown in Payson's "Build the New Instant
boats" has a daggerboard, not a centreboard. Which is not to say that you
couldn't redesign that element, but as it stands it isn't compatible with a
roof.
Currently, I'm having some fun 'Birdwatchering' Jim Michalak's 11 x 4 foot
Piccup Pram [progress picture seen on Jim's page at
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15oct05.htm] but that's not a design,
and Jim's certainly not to blame :)
Why not draw up a house for the Windsprint and move the board under the
slot? Go for it!
cheers
Derek
Justin,
A really neat boat is the modified "Philsboat" as built by Mike
Mulcahy.
There are some photos here:
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kakwariver/album?.dir=/a6a6
Plans are available at Duckworks for $32.50 and I am sure Mike would
answer any questions you may have. There was a thread going here on
this group about the time frame that these photos were posted.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...>
wrote:
A really neat boat is the modified "Philsboat" as built by Mike
Mulcahy.
There are some photos here:
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kakwariver/album?.dir=/a6a6
Plans are available at Duckworks for $32.50 and I am sure Mike would
answer any questions you may have. There was a thread going here on
this group about the time frame that these photos were posted.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@g...>
wrote:
>for
>
> Has anyone given any thought to a Surf/Windsprint/Teal
> with a birdwatcher house? I want a winter singlehanded daysailer
> protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.
>
> Any other designs out there?
>
> Windsprint seems to be a logical starting place. It has the
> centerboard already (seems like a better match to the use than
> leeboards) and I would be willing to give up a
> little of the sail area at the foot of the lug sail to clear the
> house.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Justin
>
Has anyone given any thought to a Surf/Windsprint/Teal
with a birdwatcher house? I want a winter singlehanded daysailer for
protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.
Any other designs out there?
Windsprint seems to be a logical starting place. It has the
centerboard already (seems like a better match to the use than
leeboards) and I would be willing to give up a
little of the sail area at the foot of the lug sail to clear the
house.
Any thoughts?
Justin
with a birdwatcher house? I want a winter singlehanded daysailer for
protected waters. No need for anything bigger than 12-16'.
Any other designs out there?
Windsprint seems to be a logical starting place. It has the
centerboard already (seems like a better match to the use than
leeboards) and I would be willing to give up a
little of the sail area at the foot of the lug sail to clear the
house.
Any thoughts?
Justin