Re: Olshoe Keel Questions
How about making a mostly concrete keel insert a bit deeper and wider
than plans with Lots of rebar? Do it Buehler stlye and use the keel as
your building base. It would need ~four times the volume to equal the
lead weight. You gain a bit of volume by not boxing it in with ply,
make it a little wider and deeper, if you can stand extra draft
some of the righting moment comes back.
It would still have to be longer than the designed lead ballast.
Anyone have the dimensions of the lead keel?
If it is a terrible failure, you could cast it off and build the keel
as planned.
Justin
than plans with Lots of rebar? Do it Buehler stlye and use the keel as
your building base. It would need ~four times the volume to equal the
lead weight. You gain a bit of volume by not boxing it in with ply,
make it a little wider and deeper, if you can stand extra draft
some of the righting moment comes back.
It would still have to be longer than the designed lead ballast.
Anyone have the dimensions of the lead keel?
If it is a terrible failure, you could cast it off and build the keel
as planned.
Justin
> > Does anyone have any opinions on these two approaches to an<big smile> Consider a third option, build it exactly as designed.
> Oldshoe
> > keel.
(Other people may have different experience that my own), but I have
built many Bolger boats, and perhaps 75% of the time (or more) that I
have deviated even slightly from the plans, things turned out harder,
more expensive, more time consuming and/or less capable that I had
hoped. And, soooo often, upon careful consideration I discover that
seemingly minor details of the Bolger plans have hidden purpose that
were not initially apparent. What does an Old Shoe keel ballast
weight? 200 pounds? Well, that is less that what I personally weigh,
what is the problem? <big smile>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "delorypaul" <PAULDELORY@H...> wrote:
1. Make a full-sized pattern of your keel.
2. Divide it up into four equal rectangles - or as close as you can.
You may have to go a bit father forward and aft from the plans as we
will be making lead inserts that will be perfectly straight along
the bottom.
3. Make a cardboard template of a "master" rectangle and take it to
a welder to make a steel "cake pan" using angle iron welded to a
piece for the bottom. Make the sides higher than the intended
thickness of the lead "cakes".
4. Weigh out your lead into 4 piles exactly 50 pounds each.
5. Level up the BBQ, put your pan on the burner and load up with the
first batch.
6. Fire up the burner and sit back and relax while the lead melts.
Once it melts turn off the burner and leave it until next day. It
should shrink enough that the cake will come easily out of the pan.
Repeat three more times.
7. While you are doing this you can lay the hull over on its side
using tires and sawhorses etc., and install and firmly brace one
side of the plywood keel, including the internal free-flooding
framing - adjusted to have room for the cakes.
8. When your cakes are all baked and cooled out you have 4 - 50 lb
pieces of lead to load up onto the flat level keel and bed them down
in epoxy or whatever goop you prefer.
9. Fair off the bottom keel line and fill any gaps with whatever
works best and install the sacrificial bottom keel strip.Then
install the top side of the plywood keel and drill holes into it and
the lead to accept ring nails if that is what the directions call
for.
10. Right the hull and ring nail the other side.
Nels
>Oldshoe
> Does anyone have any opinions on these two approaches to an
> keel.Here is a method I would consider:
> Firstly, molding lead in small enough pieces for one man to handle.
> Does the keel lead have to be all one piece, if not would any
> difference in performance be noticable?
>
> Secondly, using a Supermoouse type of flooding keel without lead
> ballast. Again any reasons why not, other than stability the lead
> provides?
>
1. Make a full-sized pattern of your keel.
2. Divide it up into four equal rectangles - or as close as you can.
You may have to go a bit father forward and aft from the plans as we
will be making lead inserts that will be perfectly straight along
the bottom.
3. Make a cardboard template of a "master" rectangle and take it to
a welder to make a steel "cake pan" using angle iron welded to a
piece for the bottom. Make the sides higher than the intended
thickness of the lead "cakes".
4. Weigh out your lead into 4 piles exactly 50 pounds each.
5. Level up the BBQ, put your pan on the burner and load up with the
first batch.
6. Fire up the burner and sit back and relax while the lead melts.
Once it melts turn off the burner and leave it until next day. It
should shrink enough that the cake will come easily out of the pan.
Repeat three more times.
7. While you are doing this you can lay the hull over on its side
using tires and sawhorses etc., and install and firmly brace one
side of the plywood keel, including the internal free-flooding
framing - adjusted to have room for the cakes.
8. When your cakes are all baked and cooled out you have 4 - 50 lb
pieces of lead to load up onto the flat level keel and bed them down
in epoxy or whatever goop you prefer.
9. Fair off the bottom keel line and fill any gaps with whatever
works best and install the sacrificial bottom keel strip.Then
install the top side of the plywood keel and drill holes into it and
the lead to accept ring nails if that is what the directions call
for.
10. Right the hull and ring nail the other side.
Nels
If I understand your questions correctly.....
1) As I recall, the keel is enclosed by plywood. Therefore, it shouldn't
matter if the ballast is a one piece casting, lead bricks, or chopped up
wheel weights set in epoxy.
2) If you are asking if you could use a free flooding plywood keel with
water taking the place of lead, I suppose you could. But this creates a
number of problems. Water is not as dense as lead. Therefore, a boat with
a water filled keel would weigh less than the same boat with a lead filled
keel. The boat with the water filled keel would float higher on her lines
with possible adverse effects on stability. If you opt for a water filled
keel, you might also wish to consider additonal water ballast tanks under
the seats.
A second problem with using the water in a free flooding keel for ballast is
that if the water is free to run into the keel, it is also free to run out.
This is probably not much of a problem with an Old Shoe which sails pretty
flat. However, in the event of a knockdown, a draining keel would not
provide much righting power.
One concern with a lead keel is moving it around during the building
process. I recently finished a 19 ft. 550lb boat and I had good success in
putting the boat on a furniture dolly to move it in and out of the garage.
I think you could do the same with a keel casting. The trick is to use a
piece of line to pull the dolly (with a second person "steering"), rather
than trying to push the object on the dolly.
Good luck.
John T
1) As I recall, the keel is enclosed by plywood. Therefore, it shouldn't
matter if the ballast is a one piece casting, lead bricks, or chopped up
wheel weights set in epoxy.
2) If you are asking if you could use a free flooding plywood keel with
water taking the place of lead, I suppose you could. But this creates a
number of problems. Water is not as dense as lead. Therefore, a boat with
a water filled keel would weigh less than the same boat with a lead filled
keel. The boat with the water filled keel would float higher on her lines
with possible adverse effects on stability. If you opt for a water filled
keel, you might also wish to consider additonal water ballast tanks under
the seats.
A second problem with using the water in a free flooding keel for ballast is
that if the water is free to run into the keel, it is also free to run out.
This is probably not much of a problem with an Old Shoe which sails pretty
flat. However, in the event of a knockdown, a draining keel would not
provide much righting power.
One concern with a lead keel is moving it around during the building
process. I recently finished a 19 ft. 550lb boat and I had good success in
putting the boat on a furniture dolly to move it in and out of the garage.
I think you could do the same with a keel casting. The trick is to use a
piece of line to pull the dolly (with a second person "steering"), rather
than trying to push the object on the dolly.
Good luck.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "delorypaul" <PAULDELORY@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: [bolger] Olshoe Keel Questions
> Does anyone have any opinions on these two approaches to an Oldshoe
> keel.
> Firstly, molding lead in small enough pieces for one man to handle.
> Does the keel lead have to be all one piece, if not would any
> difference in performance be noticable?
>
> Secondly, using a Supermoouse type of flooding keel without lead
> ballast. Again any reasons why not, other than stability the lead
> provides?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005
>
>
Does anyone have any opinions on these two approaches to an Oldshoe
keel.
Firstly, molding lead in small enough pieces for one man to handle.
Does the keel lead have to be all one piece, if not would any
difference in performance be noticable?
Secondly, using a Supermoouse type of flooding keel without lead
ballast. Again any reasons why not, other than stability the lead
provides?
keel.
Firstly, molding lead in small enough pieces for one man to handle.
Does the keel lead have to be all one piece, if not would any
difference in performance be noticable?
Secondly, using a Supermoouse type of flooding keel without lead
ballast. Again any reasons why not, other than stability the lead
provides?