Re: [bolger] Re: Light Cat-Schooner, Reefing, and the SHS
Peter--
If you check the latest Michalak Index page, there is a picture of my Toon
19 on her maiden voyage. As is often the case when you build a prototype
there is a lot of working up to be done.
Since the picture was taken, I have re-rigged the main so it sets better and
put a pad eye on the mizzen to hold the snotter at the
appropriate location so it sets better. I'm in the process of building a
longer tiller which should allow me to sit against the main bulkhead. This
should trim the boat flatter (fore and aft) and if that's not enough, a bag
of sand in the bow should trim things up. I also need to move the cleats
for the mizzen sheets, so I can reach them while sitting forward.
I'm not convinced that any homemade boat is ever completely finished, but
I'm making progress. South Carolina winters are mild and I should have a
couple of good days over the next couple of months to fiddle and test.
Thanks for your interest and encouraging words.
John T
If you check the latest Michalak Index page, there is a picture of my Toon
19 on her maiden voyage. As is often the case when you build a prototype
there is a lot of working up to be done.
Since the picture was taken, I have re-rigged the main so it sets better and
put a pad eye on the mizzen to hold the snotter at the
appropriate location so it sets better. I'm in the process of building a
longer tiller which should allow me to sit against the main bulkhead. This
should trim the boat flatter (fore and aft) and if that's not enough, a bag
of sand in the bow should trim things up. I also need to move the cleats
for the mizzen sheets, so I can reach them while sitting forward.
I'm not convinced that any homemade boat is ever completely finished, but
I'm making progress. South Carolina winters are mild and I should have a
couple of good days over the next couple of months to fiddle and test.
Thanks for your interest and encouraging words.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:01 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Cat-Schooner, Reefing, and the SHS
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@w...>
> wrote:
> I found that the mizzen sheet liked
>> to wrap itself around the tip of the boomkin, where it would be very
>> difficult to free. Boomkins are common on a lot of British boats
> and they
>> must work, but I opted to go the double sheet route and this seems
> to work
>> well.
>
> Hi John,
>
> Your choice of double sheeting the mizzen is a good one and the
> trick to preventing a mizzen sheet from wrapping itself around the
> boomkin is to mount the little block at the extreme bitter end of the
> boomkin and I really do mean the outside"tip" of the boomkin.
> Can't wait to see some nice photos of your boat to treat eyes grown
> sad from looking at cold empty waterways of late.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,up to my ears in blue styrfoam dust/bits from happy
> insulating sessions of late,from along the soon to be artic shores of
> the St.Lawrence..........
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 11/27/2005
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@w...>
wrote:
I found that the mizzen sheet liked
Your choice of double sheeting the mizzen is a good one and the
trick to preventing a mizzen sheet from wrapping itself around the
boomkin is to mount the little block at the extreme bitter end of the
boomkin and I really do mean the outside"tip" of the boomkin.
Can't wait to see some nice photos of your boat to treat eyes grown
sad from looking at cold empty waterways of late.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,up to my ears in blue styrfoam dust/bits from happy
insulating sessions of late,from along the soon to be artic shores of
the St.Lawrence..........
wrote:
I found that the mizzen sheet liked
> to wrap itself around the tip of the boomkin, where it would be veryand they
> difficult to free. Boomkins are common on a lot of British boats
> must work, but I opted to go the double sheet route and this seemsto work
> well.Hi John,
Your choice of double sheeting the mizzen is a good one and the
trick to preventing a mizzen sheet from wrapping itself around the
boomkin is to mount the little block at the extreme bitter end of the
boomkin and I really do mean the outside"tip" of the boomkin.
Can't wait to see some nice photos of your boat to treat eyes grown
sad from looking at cold empty waterways of late.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,up to my ears in blue styrfoam dust/bits from happy
insulating sessions of late,from along the soon to be artic shores of
the St.Lawrence..........
I found that I could sail my Light Schooner with main only. It didn't point
very high and had a heavy weather helm, but it was useful for moving the
boat from the launch dock to a rigging dock while someone parked the car.
I just finished and launched Jim Michalak's Toon 19 which is a cat
ketch/yawl (the mizzen is in front of the rudder, meeting a definition of a
ketch, but is for trim, not drive, meeting a definition of a yawl--I won't
argue either way). I'm still working up/tuning/working out things to suit
me, but it seems to be reasonable for a single hander in winds up to about
10. It will point more or less into the wind with the mizzen trimmed
amidships and the main dropped. I've had it out twice and cannot yet offer
any more detail on performance, but so far, I'm pleased.
There seem to be two approaches to rigging the sheets on a mizzen--a boomkin
and double sheets led to the corners of the transom. I built a boomkin, but
while setting up sails in the drive way, I found that the mizzen sheet liked
to wrap itself around the tip of the boomkin, where it would be very
difficult to free. Boomkins are common on a lot of British boats and they
must work, but I opted to go the double sheet route and this seems to work
well.
John T
very high and had a heavy weather helm, but it was useful for moving the
boat from the launch dock to a rigging dock while someone parked the car.
I just finished and launched Jim Michalak's Toon 19 which is a cat
ketch/yawl (the mizzen is in front of the rudder, meeting a definition of a
ketch, but is for trim, not drive, meeting a definition of a yawl--I won't
argue either way). I'm still working up/tuning/working out things to suit
me, but it seems to be reasonable for a single hander in winds up to about
10. It will point more or less into the wind with the mizzen trimmed
amidships and the main dropped. I've had it out twice and cannot yet offer
any more detail on performance, but so far, I'm pleased.
There seem to be two approaches to rigging the sheets on a mizzen--a boomkin
and double sheets led to the corners of the transom. I built a boomkin, but
while setting up sails in the drive way, I found that the mizzen sheet liked
to wrap itself around the tip of the boomkin, where it would be very
difficult to free. Boomkins are common on a lot of British boats and they
must work, but I opted to go the double sheet route and this seems to work
well.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: [bolger] Light Cat-Schooner, Reefing, and the SHS
>I got a message off-list the other day from a man who's considering
> the cat-schooner version of the Light Schooner, among other designs.
> I thought perhaps that some of this group might be interested in the
> information in my response, and might suggest some tips to help me
> handle the boat while trying to reef. Here goes:
>
> Hi David,
>
>> Your schooner looks great, any more pictures?
>
> Thanks very much! I have a few more, but I'm behind in getting them
> put up on the website. Stay tuned for more photos of that boat and
> others in the near future.
>
>> I notice yours is cat ketch rigged, I have been thiking of the same
>> thing. any comments on the performance, is it able to be single
> handed
>> riged that way?
>
> Actually, the rig is a cat-schooner, not a cat-ketch, although the
> difference in this case is trivial. Since the two masts are the same
> length, and the sails are identical, it technically can be called a
> cat-schooner. Since the rocker of the bottom causes the foremast to
> sit slightly higher than the main, it technically could also be
> called a cat-ketch.
>
> The boat is very, very fast with this rig, but I can't compare it to
> the original schooner rig since I've never sailed one. It would
> probably be possible to rig the foresail halyards to be within reach
> of the aft cockpit, but I can't imagine singlehanding this boat in
> anything but the lightest wind, probably with the first reef tied.
> We have sailed many times with two crew and full sail, but once the
> wind builds, two people are not enough to hold her up unless reefed.
> With three aboard, you can hold full sail in some pretty decent wind
> and really go fast. In fact, this boat goes really fast all the time.
>
> We have actually not mastered reefing this rig. A big part of the
> problem is that I can't ever get her head-to-wind, even with the
> foresail down and the main sheeted all the way in. The mainsail is
> too close to the center of the boat, and the windage of the foremast
> and bundled foresail is too great to keep her headed up. She just
> starts sailing away on you in this condition, and the helmsman has to
> keep steering her into the wind. Or, if you keep the mainsail
> sheeted in, the bow blows off from the windage forward and you're in
> danger of a knockdown from the mainsail. None of this is conducive
> to getting the sails down and the reefs tied before the boat has
> sailed/drifted a long ways. On the relatively small bodies of water
> we sail on, this becomes a problem when the lee shore is suddenly
> close by. We plan to try reefing her before setting out next season
> when there is the likelihood of strong winds and only two of us
> aboard. I may also try to rig "jiffy" or "slab" reefing and see if
> that helps. BTW, our experience suggests that you could sail this
> boat as a cat with only the mainmast and sail, but it would look very
> odd and may not go to windward very well.
>
> Having said all of that, there is nothing on this earth as much fun
> as flying down the lake on a beam reach under full sail at 10-15
> degrees of heel in this boat if you have enough weight on the rail to
> hold her up. It's simply exhilirating!
>
>> I have built two pirogues and sent for Michalek's plans for a 12'
>> mayfly.
>> I want to use it to try out several rigs including the ketch.
>> then it will be a 19 foot Bolger single hand schooner or the light
> schooner, I am not
>> too sure at this point how interested my wife will be in helping to
> sail her, so a
>> single hand rig is needed
>
> A true ketch would be a three sail rig, so I take it you mean a cat-
> ketch. Even so, that's a pretty small boat to rig that way and it
> may not sail as well as you expect.
>
> The big difference between the SHS and the Light Schooner is that the
> SHS has a ballasted daggerboard. It's supposedly about 100 lbs, and
> with the weight down in the water, she should stand up to her sail
> without needing more crew. If you really need a single-handed rig,
> that boat would be the way to go, but note that it has no provision
> for a motor, so you'll have to sail up to the dock, use a yuloh, or
> figure something else out if the wind dies.
>
> You could also concoct other, simpler rigs for the light schooner,
> but also build the mast partners and steps for the original or cat-
> schooner rigs. That way you could single-hand her at first, and if
> your wife became interested in sailing, you could increase the rig
> later. One example of this that I've thought of trying is to step
> one of my cat-schooner masts just behind the forward bulkhead, and
> mount a mizzen from a Bolger Micro on the inside of the transom to
> get a cat-yawl. It would need a boomkin. Another idea was to mount
> a removable partner across the forward cockpit about midway between
> the forward and second bulkhead, and use one of my masts to get a cat
> rig. That would be a good singlehanded rig for this hull.
>
> You might also join the Bolger Yahoo group and seek advice from the
> considerable wisdom and experience available in that group. There is
> an SHS builder/sailer who participates regularly and could provide
> you with much more information on that design than I can. Hope this
> helps,
>
> Sincerely,
> Jon Kolb
>http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>jon@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 11/27/2005
>
>
I got a message off-list the other day from a man who's considering
the cat-schooner version of the Light Schooner, among other designs.
I thought perhaps that some of this group might be interested in the
information in my response, and might suggest some tips to help me
handle the boat while trying to reef. Here goes:
Hi David,
put up on the website. Stay tuned for more photos of that boat and
others in the near future.
difference in this case is trivial. Since the two masts are the same
length, and the sails are identical, it technically can be called a
cat-schooner. Since the rocker of the bottom causes the foremast to
sit slightly higher than the main, it technically could also be
called a cat-ketch.
The boat is very, very fast with this rig, but I can't compare it to
the original schooner rig since I've never sailed one. It would
probably be possible to rig the foresail halyards to be within reach
of the aft cockpit, but I can't imagine singlehanding this boat in
anything but the lightest wind, probably with the first reef tied.
We have sailed many times with two crew and full sail, but once the
wind builds, two people are not enough to hold her up unless reefed.
With three aboard, you can hold full sail in some pretty decent wind
and really go fast. In fact, this boat goes really fast all the time.
We have actually not mastered reefing this rig. A big part of the
problem is that I can't ever get her head-to-wind, even with the
foresail down and the main sheeted all the way in. The mainsail is
too close to the center of the boat, and the windage of the foremast
and bundled foresail is too great to keep her headed up. She just
starts sailing away on you in this condition, and the helmsman has to
keep steering her into the wind. Or, if you keep the mainsail
sheeted in, the bow blows off from the windage forward and you're in
danger of a knockdown from the mainsail. None of this is conducive
to getting the sails down and the reefs tied before the boat has
sailed/drifted a long ways. On the relatively small bodies of water
we sail on, this becomes a problem when the lee shore is suddenly
close by. We plan to try reefing her before setting out next season
when there is the likelihood of strong winds and only two of us
aboard. I may also try to rig "jiffy" or "slab" reefing and see if
that helps. BTW, our experience suggests that you could sail this
boat as a cat with only the mainmast and sail, but it would look very
odd and may not go to windward very well.
Having said all of that, there is nothing on this earth as much fun
as flying down the lake on a beam reach under full sail at 10-15
degrees of heel in this boat if you have enough weight on the rail to
hold her up. It's simply exhilirating!
ketch. Even so, that's a pretty small boat to rig that way and it
may not sail as well as you expect.
The big difference between the SHS and the Light Schooner is that the
SHS has a ballasted daggerboard. It's supposedly about 100 lbs, and
with the weight down in the water, she should stand up to her sail
without needing more crew. If you really need a single-handed rig,
that boat would be the way to go, but note that it has no provision
for a motor, so you'll have to sail up to the dock, use a yuloh, or
figure something else out if the wind dies.
You could also concoct other, simpler rigs for the light schooner,
but also build the mast partners and steps for the original or cat-
schooner rigs. That way you could single-hand her at first, and if
your wife became interested in sailing, you could increase the rig
later. One example of this that I've thought of trying is to step
one of my cat-schooner masts just behind the forward bulkhead, and
mount a mizzen from a Bolger Micro on the inside of the transom to
get a cat-yawl. It would need a boomkin. Another idea was to mount
a removable partner across the forward cockpit about midway between
the forward and second bulkhead, and use one of my masts to get a cat
rig. That would be a good singlehanded rig for this hull.
You might also join the Bolger Yahoo group and seek advice from the
considerable wisdom and experience available in that group. There is
an SHS builder/sailer who participates regularly and could provide
you with much more information on that design than I can. Hope this
helps,
Sincerely,
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
jon@...
the cat-schooner version of the Light Schooner, among other designs.
I thought perhaps that some of this group might be interested in the
information in my response, and might suggest some tips to help me
handle the boat while trying to reef. Here goes:
Hi David,
> Your schooner looks great, any more pictures?Thanks very much! I have a few more, but I'm behind in getting them
put up on the website. Stay tuned for more photos of that boat and
others in the near future.
> I notice yours is cat ketch rigged, I have been thiking of the samehanded
> thing. any comments on the performance, is it able to be single
> riged that way?Actually, the rig is a cat-schooner, not a cat-ketch, although the
difference in this case is trivial. Since the two masts are the same
length, and the sails are identical, it technically can be called a
cat-schooner. Since the rocker of the bottom causes the foremast to
sit slightly higher than the main, it technically could also be
called a cat-ketch.
The boat is very, very fast with this rig, but I can't compare it to
the original schooner rig since I've never sailed one. It would
probably be possible to rig the foresail halyards to be within reach
of the aft cockpit, but I can't imagine singlehanding this boat in
anything but the lightest wind, probably with the first reef tied.
We have sailed many times with two crew and full sail, but once the
wind builds, two people are not enough to hold her up unless reefed.
With three aboard, you can hold full sail in some pretty decent wind
and really go fast. In fact, this boat goes really fast all the time.
We have actually not mastered reefing this rig. A big part of the
problem is that I can't ever get her head-to-wind, even with the
foresail down and the main sheeted all the way in. The mainsail is
too close to the center of the boat, and the windage of the foremast
and bundled foresail is too great to keep her headed up. She just
starts sailing away on you in this condition, and the helmsman has to
keep steering her into the wind. Or, if you keep the mainsail
sheeted in, the bow blows off from the windage forward and you're in
danger of a knockdown from the mainsail. None of this is conducive
to getting the sails down and the reefs tied before the boat has
sailed/drifted a long ways. On the relatively small bodies of water
we sail on, this becomes a problem when the lee shore is suddenly
close by. We plan to try reefing her before setting out next season
when there is the likelihood of strong winds and only two of us
aboard. I may also try to rig "jiffy" or "slab" reefing and see if
that helps. BTW, our experience suggests that you could sail this
boat as a cat with only the mainmast and sail, but it would look very
odd and may not go to windward very well.
Having said all of that, there is nothing on this earth as much fun
as flying down the lake on a beam reach under full sail at 10-15
degrees of heel in this boat if you have enough weight on the rail to
hold her up. It's simply exhilirating!
> I have built two pirogues and sent for Michalek's plans for a 12'schooner, I am not
> mayfly.
> I want to use it to try out several rigs including the ketch.
> then it will be a 19 foot Bolger single hand schooner or the light
> too sure at this point how interested my wife will be in helping tosail her, so a
> single hand rig is neededA true ketch would be a three sail rig, so I take it you mean a cat-
ketch. Even so, that's a pretty small boat to rig that way and it
may not sail as well as you expect.
The big difference between the SHS and the Light Schooner is that the
SHS has a ballasted daggerboard. It's supposedly about 100 lbs, and
with the weight down in the water, she should stand up to her sail
without needing more crew. If you really need a single-handed rig,
that boat would be the way to go, but note that it has no provision
for a motor, so you'll have to sail up to the dock, use a yuloh, or
figure something else out if the wind dies.
You could also concoct other, simpler rigs for the light schooner,
but also build the mast partners and steps for the original or cat-
schooner rigs. That way you could single-hand her at first, and if
your wife became interested in sailing, you could increase the rig
later. One example of this that I've thought of trying is to step
one of my cat-schooner masts just behind the forward bulkhead, and
mount a mizzen from a Bolger Micro on the inside of the transom to
get a cat-yawl. It would need a boomkin. Another idea was to mount
a removable partner across the forward cockpit about midway between
the forward and second bulkhead, and use one of my masts to get a cat
rig. That would be a good singlehanded rig for this hull.
You might also join the Bolger Yahoo group and seek advice from the
considerable wisdom and experience available in that group. There is
an SHS builder/sailer who participates regularly and could provide
you with much more information on that design than I can. Hope this
helps,
Sincerely,
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
jon@...