Re: [bolger] boat plans

Are there plans available for the fiddler2 number391

thankyou for the pics.I think however that I am over the dory and have moved on yo other plans.Thanks for the effort though
Thanks
Jason Nabors

John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...> wrote:
A 20' dory is a *small* boat. The narrow bottom and steeply flaring sides
mean there is very little volume inside for people and gear.

Here are some photos of a derelict 20-something foot auxilary sailing dory
that we found last year (in Brevard, NC of all places). It's a one or two
person boat at best. A Catalina 22 would be positively *palatial* in
comparison...

http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/Dsc00722_vga.jpg
http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/Dsc00723_vga.jpg

I don't know anything more about the boat in the pictures, other than it was
an unusual item to find in the mountains of western North Carolina, an area
where a whitewater kayak would be more appropriate.

JB




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A 20' dory is a *small* boat. The narrow bottom and steeply flaring sides
mean there is very little volume inside for people and gear.

Here are some photos of a derelict 20-something foot auxilary sailing dory
that we found last year (in Brevard, NC of all places). It's a one or two
person boat at best. A Catalina 22 would be positively *palatial* in
comparison...

http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/Dsc00722_vga.jpg
http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/Dsc00723_vga.jpg

I don't know anything more about the boat in the pictures, other than it was
an unusual item to find in the mountains of western North Carolina, an area
where a whitewater kayak would be more appropriate.

JB

Well I appreciate all the input but I think I am drifting away from the dories for the reason that so many have stated.The ends are pointy and I will be loosing so much room.That being said I am now heading in the direction of the IMB or Jewlbox.actually I am wanting to kind of combind the two.Pretty much a 20' PDR with a Pointy end.I want to keep it about 20 so I can just steal the trailor,mast,sails,and rudder from my buccaneer and just put them on my new DUCKANEER.I figure about 20' X 7' 6".I figure the main and jib would work just fine.They are both quite large and would probably push it along quite well.I also want to build it about 6' 6" tall so that there is plenty of headroom.I have a fridge,sink,stove,power inverter,portable head,and solar pannels as well.So pretty much all I have to build is the hull.
Your input is crucial to me I use it as constructive criticism.
Thanks again
Jason Nabors

jason nabors <jsn0677@...> wrote:
thank you so much

Philip Ridenauer <akula151@...> wrote: Hi Jason,
You've been getting several good tips on where to find a good dory design. Allow me to add one. Dave Gerr's The Nature of Boats, (probably thru Amazon or International Marine) has a power dory that is a cross between a Banks dory and a Cape Ann (not sure of the second one). It has standing headroom in the cabin/helm station. The owner/builder apparently took it out in some rough conditions and was completely satisfied by the way it handled.
PR

jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:
I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
and make it myself.
Thanks
Jason Nabors





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Bolger rules!!!
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thank you so much

Philip Ridenauer <akula151@...> wrote: Hi Jason,
You've been getting several good tips on where to find a good dory design. Allow me to add one. Dave Gerr's The Nature of Boats, (probably thru Amazon or International Marine) has a power dory that is a cross between a Banks dory and a Cape Ann (not sure of the second one). It has standing headroom in the cabin/helm station. The owner/builder apparently took it out in some rough conditions and was completely satisfied by the way it handled.
PR

jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:
I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
and make it myself.
Thanks
Jason Nabors





Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Hi Jason,
You've been getting several good tips on where to find a good dory design. Allow me to add one. Dave Gerr's The Nature of Boats, (probably thru Amazon or International Marine) has a power dory that is a cross between a Banks dory and a Cape Ann (not sure of the second one). It has standing headroom in the cabin/helm station. The owner/builder apparently took it out in some rough conditions and was completely satisfied by the way it handled.
PR

jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:
I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
and make it myself.
Thanks
Jason Nabors





Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Let me lay out a couple of problems.

A light displacement 20-24' boat (and a dory qualifies) is dominated by crew
weight. Normally, the cockpit is in the back half of the boat and the cabin
is in the front half of the boat. If you are going to have 3 people
sleeping in the cabin, you need a cabin (or under deck) length of at least
13 '. Since there is little room in the pointy bow, the 13 ' sleeping space
usually starts 2 or 3' aft of the bow. As a result, the cockpit and crew
weight get shoved to the very back of the boat (along with an outboard
motor). Boats set up this way, tend to trim down by the stern and drag
their transoms.

There are ways around this. You can "stack" the cockpit over quarter
berths. This allows moving the cockpit/crew weight forward (and the
disadvantages of quarter berths--cramped/poor ventilation/often damp).
However, moving crew weight higher to accomodate quarter berths is probably
not a good idea in a dory with extreme flair.

The other choice is to have a cockpit that converts to a cabin with air
mattresses. There are two variations. One involves an open boat with a
tent a la a cruising dinghy or a Dovekie. The other is Bolger's
revolutionary Birdwatcher. Indeed, it can be argued that BW is not that far
removed from a dory.

PCB has done a number of variations of the BW theme and the original
imaginary short story about BW involved a couple with two small children and
extensive cruisng adventures. A BW might meet the needs.

If I were building a boat to meet the expressed requirements, I would look a
Michalak's Jewelbox. It is a garvey, not a dory, but it probably has enough
room for two adults, a child, and a dog or two to co-exist for a weekend.

Two people can cruise in a conventional 20-24 ft boat. The addition of a
third, in my opinion, requires a somewhat longer/heavier boat.

John T

----- Original Message -----
From: "john h wright" <jhargrovewright2@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] boat plans


> Bruce,
>
> All that you say is absolutely correct, wise, and sage advice. But,
> knowing Jason, other than his family his passion is sailing and sail boat
> building and innovation. This group, and other small boat groups, exists
> for passionate rather than "practical" people, me thinks.
>
> With your extensive knowledge of this venue, what boat, would be best in
> function and the best looking, sailing, functional, boat for his intended
> use? ...... He has built, and sails more often, the most innovative,
> salty, cutest, biggest, most revised, and most famous PDRacer in the
> fleet and has a Roller Reef Jib.
>
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 06:23:48 -0800 Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
> writes:
>> On 12/5/05, jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:
>> > I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
>> > convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for
>> its
>> > building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one
>> up
>> > and make it myself.
>> > Thanks
>> > Jason Nabors
>>
>> Sailboat cruiser or power boat cruiser?
>>
>> Be sure to factor in: The hull construction is typically only 1/3
>> of
>> the cost and time of building a boat. Also, bear in mind, that for
>> the vast majority of people, buying a used boat is a faster and
>> cheaper way to the water than building a boat from scratch,
>> especially
>> a self designed boat. Typically, the 'oops, do over' costs that
>> crop
>> up with self designed boats exceed the cost of the plans many times
>> over.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
>> dead horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
>> posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
>> Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
>

...family of three with two dogs...

would be a tight fit in any 20-24 foot boat.

I think that Jessie Cooper comes close, assuming that the third person
is small enough
to squeeze onto one of the galley berth seats. The Jessie Cooper has
a nice galley.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, john h wright <jhargrovewright2@j...>
wrote:

>

He has built, and sails more often, the most innovative,

> salty, cutest, biggest, most revised, and most famous PDRacer in the
> fleet and has a Roller Reef Jib.
>

I am not sure if that qualifies one to ignore all the accumulated
widsom of a master like Bolger.

However time will tell, and I hope he shares his experience with the
rest of us once he comes up with his own design.

Photos of this famous boat?

Nels

Bruce,

All that you say is absolutely correct, wise, and sage advice. But,
knowing Jason, other than his family his passion is sailing and sail boat
building and innovation. This group, and other small boat groups, exists
for passionate rather than "practical" people, me thinks.

With your extensive knowledge of this venue, what boat, would be best in
function and the best looking, sailing, functional, boat for his intended
use? ...... He has built, and sails more often, the most innovative,
salty, cutest, biggest, most revised, and most famous PDRacer in the
fleet and has a Roller Reef Jib.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 06:23:48 -0800 Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
writes:

> On 12/5/05, jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:
> > I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
> > convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for
> its
> > building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one
> up
> > and make it myself.
> > Thanks
> > Jason Nabors
>
> Sailboat cruiser or power boat cruiser?
>
> Be sure to factor in: The hull construction is typically only 1/3
> of
> the cost and time of building a boat. Also, bear in mind, that for
> the vast majority of people, buying a used boat is a faster and
> cheaper way to the water than building a boat from scratch,
> especially
> a self designed boat. Typically, the 'oops, do over' costs that
> crop
> up with self designed boats exceed the cost of the plans many times
> over.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
> home page
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>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I am just wanting something good looking that would hold a family of

three with 2 dogs for a comfortable weekend voyage down the ICW.Or
even island hopping and camping in the bays.Maybe even dolphin chasing
.It needs a galley which I have all the appliances for and it must
have a high boom and room for us to hide comfortably under a bimi
while I steer my boat with a wheel.

> Thanks
> Jason Nabors

I'm sure PCB would try to talk you out of a dory and into a Jochems
Schooner. He would explain that it is just as easy to build, and a
better boat all around. He might also mention that he designed Jesse
Cooper when the dory idea was found unworkable (for that particular
client).

That said, the MacNaughton Silver Gull illustrates how far you have to
go to get decent sailboat out of a dory. You can probably squeeze in a
3rd berth somewhere.

http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/silver28.htm

There is also a Silver Gull 19.

Peter

On 12/5/05, jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:

> I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
> convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
> building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
> and make it myself.
> Thanks
> Jason Nabors

Sailboat cruiser or power boat cruiser?

Be sure to factor in: The hull construction is typically only 1/3 of
the cost and time of building a boat. Also, bear in mind, that for
the vast majority of people, buying a used boat is a faster and
cheaper way to the water than building a boat from scratch, especially
a self designed boat. Typically, the 'oops, do over' costs that crop
up with self designed boats exceed the cost of the plans many times
over.

I am just wanting something good looking that would hold a family of three with 2 dogs for a comfortable weekend voyage down the ICW.Or even island hopping and camping in the bays.Maybe even dolphin chasing .It needs a galley which I have all the appliances for and it must have a high boom and room for us to hide comfortably under a bimi while I steer my boat with a wheel.
Thanks
Jason Nabors

derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
I've decided that I'm too old and have too much stuff, but I'm still
enamored of Jay Benford's "Badger." Check out Annie Hill's book "Voyaging
on a Small Income." It's a good read and it includes study plans for
several cruisers in the appendix. You can see a photo of Badger at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BadgerOwnerBuilders/

I'd suggest that for a family, you might need something larger in a dory
shaped hull. You loose lots of room to those pointy ends. The Hills lived
for years on a 34' version, just the two of them, and they were small
people.

Note: the cost of the plans, prepared by a professional and proven in
several instantiations is such a very small part of the total boat cost that
it seems ill-advised to try and guess the scantlings, moments, ballast
amounts, etc. For Badger, the plan set was about $500. The phosphor bronze
fasteners for the lead keel would have been $800.

Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "jason" <jsn0677@...>


>I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
> convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
> building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
> and make it myself.
> Thanks
> Jason Nabors



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jsn0677@s...> wrote:

>
> I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
> convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for

its

> building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
> and make it myself.
> Thanks
> Jason Nabors
>

If you get a copy of "Boats With An Open Mind" and know how to loft,
there are several designs in that size including RED ZINGER AND
LEEBOARD SHARPIE.

MARTHA JANE would be my choice...

http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJ.html

...or perhaps SUPERBRICK. If you build a SUPERBRICK you will get
several hundred dollars in donations, from this group, that will more
than pay for the plans.

Building without proper plans is a waste of time and money in the end
and also can b a safety factor for your family. It would be much more
prudent to purchase a boat second-hand which can often be cheaper than
the cost of building material nowadays.

The expense of sails and rigging a boat, getting a good reliable
motor, and a sound trailer, often cost as much or more than the
lumber, epoxy and paint, and all this is often included in the second-
hand boat plus you can get on the water a lot sooner.

Nels

I've decided that I'm too old and have too much stuff, but I'm still
enamored of Jay Benford's "Badger." Check out Annie Hill's book "Voyaging
on a Small Income." It's a good read and it includes study plans for
several cruisers in the appendix. You can see a photo of Badger at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BadgerOwnerBuilders/

I'd suggest that for a family, you might need something larger in a dory
shaped hull. You loose lots of room to those pointy ends. The Hills lived
for years on a 34' version, just the two of them, and they were small
people.

Note: the cost of the plans, prepared by a professional and proven in
several instantiations is such a very small part of the total boat cost that
it seems ill-advised to try and guess the scantlings, moments, ballast
amounts, etc. For Badger, the plan set was about $500. The phosphor bronze
fasteners for the lead keel would have been $800.

Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "jason" <jsn0677@...>


>I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
> convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
> building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
> and make it myself.
> Thanks
> Jason Nabors

Check out Gardner's The Dory Book. Amazon has it new
for $25.95. Here it is used for $18:
http://tinyurl.com/cdmu8

At least one of the designs in there, it's been a long
time since I read it, is for a power cruiser.

You might also write Phil Bolger and see what designs
he has for a cruiser in your range.

Phil Smith

--- jason <jsn0677@...> wrote:

> I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I
> am wanting to
>

I am in need of plans for a dory from 20' to 24' I am wanting to
convert it to a cruiser for my family and myself.I picked dory for its
building simplicity.If I cant get free plans I will just draw one up
and make it myself.
Thanks
Jason Nabors