RE: [bolger] Re: Paging Nels/Peter Lenihan re: Lestat keel thickness

Thanks Nels! At least now I know what I'm dealing with...

hoping to make some progress on the keel over the long weekend


-Paul

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:53 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paging Nels/Peter Lenihan re: Lestat keel
thickness


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
> If Nels could get out a ruler and measure Lestat's keel, that'd
settle it!

Sorry guys - I am presently out in B.C. so it may seems to be a rather
late response - and I don't have regular Internet access. But I
measured the keel thickness and it is indeed exactly 2 inches thick,
This had me very confused after reading Peters article and not
realizing he really was using 2 X 2s that were actually really that
dimension.

Nels








Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
> If Nels could get out a ruler and measure Lestat's keel, that'd
settle it!

Sorry guys - I am presently out in B.C. so it may seems to be a rather
late response - and I don't have regular Internet access. But I
measured the keel thickness and it is indeed exactly 2 inches thick,
This had me very confused after reading Peters article and not
realizing he really was using 2 X 2s that were actually really that
dimension.

Nels
intimate bottom bouncing?

I won't ask...


Anyway, yes, i have some bronze threaded rod for the task, both for the lead
and the deadwood keel; I can't recall but I think it's at least 1/2", maybe
5/8"- pretty stout stuff.

If Nels finds it in his heart to take the measurement, i may not need
anything else - I have a tracing of your entire pattern as well as the
xeroxes showing the little squares/parallelograms you drew, so I can piece
it all together.

thanks!

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Peter Lenihan
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:41 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paging Nels/Peter Lenihan re: Lestat keel
thickness


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Yes,those angled ends,on the ballast keel, cancel each other
out...sort of :-)
Did I mention that the deadwoods are not only epoxied together but
also have some 3/8" drift bolts running right through them(1/2" for
the lead)?Very important! As is the sacrifial shoe under the lead :-)

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,who has had his share of intimate bottom bouncing along
the St.Lawrence.......river bottom lads,RIVER bottom....arrrrg! Matey!






Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I didn't actually count up the squares (I xeroxed your pattern,
have a ton
> of little sheets to mosaic together and I was pretty sick at the
time I was
> attempting this back in March)


Paul,

If those many zeroxed sheets are lost or today appear to no
longer make any coherent sense, I could always mail you down the
pattern again for you to trace full sized onto a length of plwood.
e-mail me at my hotmail address, with your mailing info, and you'll
have it within a week.

Hoping this may help some......


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,from along the partly cloudy shores of the once rainy
St.lawrence..............






> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Yes,those angled ends,on the ballast keel, cancel each other
out...sort of :-)
Did I mention that the deadwoods are not only epoxied together but
also have some 3/8" drift bolts running right through them(1/2" for
the lead)?Very important! As is the sacrifial shoe under the lead :-)

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,who has had his share of intimate bottom bouncing along
the St.Lawrence.......river bottom lads,RIVER bottom....arrrrg! Matey!
Hi Peter,

I didn't actually count up the squares (I xeroxed your pattern, have a ton
of little sheets to mosaic together and I was pretty sick at the time I was
attempting this back in March) but overall length of the bottom edge is very
near that of the original; I assume the diagonal offsets to overlap the
deadwood more or less cancel each other out.

If Nels could get out a ruler and measure Lestat's keel, that'd settle it! I
figure 2" would be much stronger laterally if I ever drift down on a rock in
our tidal currents; but if Lestat has held up so admirably with a 1 1/2"
keel through all those years on the St. Lawrence, I'd consider that to be
well proven and would be quite content to build with my dimensional lumber
as-is!

thanks guys

Paul L, wiping winter moths and pollen off his neglected soon-to-be Micro...

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Peter Lenihan
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:06 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Paging Nels/Peter Lenihan re: Lestat keel
thickness


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>

Welcome back Paul and good to hear that you are all worked up to
finish your MICRO!

You really are testing my dirt poor memory but here it goes......I
believe it is a full 2",especially since I get most of my lumber
milled to honest dimensions and none of that 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" passing
itself off as 2X2 :-)

Of course,you could always trace a whole bunch of little 1" squares
on the keel pattern and add up the weight of these 2 cubic inch
sections to see if they add up to 450 lbs........have a case of cold
beer at hand to make the whole thing at least fun and relaxtiong :-D


Hopefuly that prairre pirate and robber of maiden hearts, Nels, will
go out side and measure the real thing for you(us)!

All the best!


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan, who is sometimes challenged to even recall what he
had for lunch......yesterday......nevermind 13 year old lead
keels,from along the shore of the St.Lawrence............






Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>

Welcome back Paul and good to hear that you are all worked up to
finish your MICRO!

You really are testing my dirt poor memory but here it goes......I
believe it is a full 2",especially since I get most of my lumber
milled to honest dimensions and none of that 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" passing
itself off as 2X2 :-)

Of course,you could always trace a whole bunch of little 1" squares
on the keel pattern and add up the weight of these 2 cubic inch
sections to see if they add up to 450 lbs........have a case of cold
beer at hand to make the whole thing at least fun and relaxtiong :-D


Hopefuly that prairre pirate and robber of maiden hearts, Nels, will
go out side and measure the real thing for you(us)!

All the best!


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan, who is sometimes challenged to even recall what he
had for lunch......yesterday......nevermind 13 year old lead
keels,from along the shore of the St.Lawrence............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> I'm back from a month of travel/work in the S. hemisphere and ready
to dive
> into finishing my micro as quickly as possible. Peter, several
years ago now
> you were kind enough to lend me the keel pattern for your bolt-
through keel,
> but it's been so long that I've gotten confused as to the
dimensions.

Hi Paul,

Welcome home:-)

I am pretty sure Lestat's keel is 11/2" thick but could confirm it
for you by tomorrow. Peter used 2X2 clear pine for the mold outline
and 2X2 mahogany for the deadwood. I am assuming that 2X2's in
Montreal are the same as the ones out west here - 11/2 X 11/2 in
actual cross-section. You can review the DW article here:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/00/DM1999/articles/micro/index.htm

http://tinyurl.com/falsc

For any perspective builders, this is certainly a superior method in
keel construction, but also a lot more work I would suggest. A major
advantage is that there is no place for water to collect inside the
keel, not to mention it is more environmentally friendly regarding
the spread of waterborne critters.

Just looking at the Applecross photos (Micro for sale in the UK) and
notice that she has a skylight built into the hatch cover. Nice
touch! Also comes with a 5HP 4-stroke Honda - which would be perfect
I would bet.

Whoever gets her, I would like to reserve a sail next time I am over
there!

Nels
I'm back from a month of travel/work in the S. hemisphere and ready to dive
into finishing my micro as quickly as possible. Peter, several years ago now
you were kind enough to lend me the keel pattern for your bolt-through keel,
but it's been so long that I've gotten confused as to the dimensions. I have
in my notes that you said your keel was 2" thick, but the area of your
pattern seems to be the same as that of the original plans, as best as I can
figure, and the original lead keel was 1 1/2" thick. Was wondering if you
recall this now, many years down the road, or barring that, whether Nels
could just measure the thickness of Lestat's keel for me? I bought a pile of
2x4 mahogany awhile back for my keel, not remembering at the time that the
'2' is actually 1 1/2"; now am on the fence as to whether to make the lead
2" or 1 1/2" thick, since it will not be sheathed in 1/4" ply along its
sides. Obviously given the dimensions of the lumber, the 1 1/2" would be
alot easier to execute, but am just wondering if it would give enough
lateral strength, or if I need to go to a full 2" and rip/laminate the 2x4's
to get the full thickness...

thanks,

Paul L, back on Cape Cod and glad to be home at last
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
>> get a sail in soon!
>
> Will post pics of the boat in the water when we go back to Sydney,
> and hopefully of the boat coming out of the water on a fairly low
> high tide, if you know what I mean.
>
> Greg F
>
Fantastic! Take lots of pictures - even maybe some of the boat sitting
on the sand. You have to realize that us folks who are shivering in
in the cold and dark while shoveling snow lust after views of Bolger
boats and sandy beaches and ocean views this time of year:-)

Seasons Greetings, Nels
Can you reply to youself?? Oh well, I am!

Put the boat in the water this morning although it was a good tide at
1.8 metres. Anyway, two of us pushed the trailer and boat around
from the backyard and into the water and just kept pushing until the
boat looked far enough in. A gentle nudge and the boat floated off
with no problem at all. The trailer didn't dig in to the sand at
all, it seemed.

We shall leave the boat in the water for some days now and will only
take it out if we are going to be away for a more than a day,
otherwise it will stay there until the end of January. After putting
the boat in the water this morning I then went and started sanding
the fibreglass sheathing on the bottom of the scram pram, but must
get a sail in soon!

Will post pics of the boat in the water when we go back to Sydney,
and hopefully of the boat coming out of the water on a fairly low
high tide, if you know what I mean.

Greg F

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, thanks Nels,that would certainly help quite a bit. Will be
> putting the baot in within the next few days, and the tides ar not
so
> high at present, so you never know, we may have to resort to the
> shovel. Never really given the idea of the portable winch much
> thought, either, but that certainly should be followed up!
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg F
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Our Micro lives on a trailer in the backyard under a sun shade,
> and
> > > to launch the boat we have to push it around onto the beach in
> front
> > > of our place on a reasonably high tide (1.6 metres or more. To
> > > retrieve the boat, we also need at least 1.6 metres or more.
> > >
> > > So....the problem is that the boat sits very high on the
trailer,
> > > but, if we had a trailer where the boat was much lower to the
> > ground
> > > it would be much easier to launch and retrieve at a greater
range
> of
> > > tides.
> >
> > I have been away for the past couple of weeks, so am a bit late
> > joining in on this thread but a couple of ideas have come to mind
> that
> > a person might consider when launching a micro in a soft sandy
> launch
> > location.
> >
> > I might be tempted to try using a shovel called a "trenching
> shovel"
> > which is a narrow shovel with a deep blade and dig a couple of
> > trenches to back into which would lower the wheels to the depth
> that
> > would be equal to having a dropped axle with torsion bars. Then
dig
> an
> > additonal trench to accept the micro's keel. This combination
might
> > make it possible to launch in about a foot of water.
> >
> > If one is really creative one might also consider the "Bruce
> Hallman"
> > launching technique by having strips of that stuff the white
> cutting
> > boards are made from - UMHW - or whatever it is called - attached
> to
> > the hull bottom. This allows one to back up into the trenches and
> slam
> > on the brakes and the boat self-launches:-)
> >
> > To reload, one just winches the micro back up onto the trailer,
> after
> > digging an appropriate set of trenches.
> >
> > I have a hand winch which attaches to the vehicle hitch and also
> acts
> > as a tongue extension for the trailer if it has a dolly wheel on
> the
> > tongue. This allows me to drive the launch vehicle well free of
the
> > soft sand bottom and winch the trailer up to the vehicle without
> > getting the tailpipe submerged. (It has 50 feet of cable) I
posted
> > some photos of the winch assembly on one of the Bolger locations,
> but
> > can't recall which one a the moment.
> >
> > Nels (Who has used a trenching shovel to bury cables and finds it
> to
> > be a really useful tool:-)
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, thanks Nels,that would certainly help quite a bit. Will be
> putting the baot in within the next few days, and the tides ar not
so
> high at present, so you never know, we may have to resort to the
> shovel. Never really given the idea of the portable winch much
> thought, either, but that certainly should be followed up!
>
> Thanks
>
There is a folder titled "Towing Ideas" that shows the winch set-up
in the files at Bolger5

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/files/

I still intend to build a two-wheeled dolly - using wheel barrow
wheels -to install under the trailer tongue to replace the present
dolly wheel which tends to sink into soft sand. I think a person
could also devise a tongue extension using a length of square
aluminum (or steel) tubing anywhere up to 20 feet or so if there is
not enough slope to the ramp to use the winch. It could be
tranported on the boat alongside the mast.

Rollers of course will not work on a boat with a keel like a Micro,
unless you have a cradle on skids and launch the cradle along with
the boat:-)

Nels
Yes, thanks Nels,that would certainly help quite a bit. Will be
putting the baot in within the next few days, and the tides ar not so
high at present, so you never know, we may have to resort to the
shovel. Never really given the idea of the portable winch much
thought, either, but that certainly should be followed up!

Thanks

Greg F


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
> >
> > Our Micro lives on a trailer in the backyard under a sun shade,
and
> > to launch the boat we have to push it around onto the beach in
front
> > of our place on a reasonably high tide (1.6 metres or more. To
> > retrieve the boat, we also need at least 1.6 metres or more.
> >
> > So....the problem is that the boat sits very high on the trailer,
> > but, if we had a trailer where the boat was much lower to the
> ground
> > it would be much easier to launch and retrieve at a greater range
of
> > tides.
>
> I have been away for the past couple of weeks, so am a bit late
> joining in on this thread but a couple of ideas have come to mind
that
> a person might consider when launching a micro in a soft sandy
launch
> location.
>
> I might be tempted to try using a shovel called a "trenching
shovel"
> which is a narrow shovel with a deep blade and dig a couple of
> trenches to back into which would lower the wheels to the depth
that
> would be equal to having a dropped axle with torsion bars. Then dig
an
> additonal trench to accept the micro's keel. This combination might
> make it possible to launch in about a foot of water.
>
> If one is really creative one might also consider the "Bruce
Hallman"
> launching technique by having strips of that stuff the white
cutting
> boards are made from - UMHW - or whatever it is called - attached
to
> the hull bottom. This allows one to back up into the trenches and
slam
> on the brakes and the boat self-launches:-)
>
> To reload, one just winches the micro back up onto the trailer,
after
> digging an appropriate set of trenches.
>
> I have a hand winch which attaches to the vehicle hitch and also
acts
> as a tongue extension for the trailer if it has a dolly wheel on
the
> tongue. This allows me to drive the launch vehicle well free of the
> soft sand bottom and winch the trailer up to the vehicle without
> getting the tailpipe submerged. (It has 50 feet of cable) I posted
> some photos of the winch assembly on one of the Bolger locations,
but
> can't recall which one a the moment.
>
> Nels (Who has used a trenching shovel to bury cables and finds it
to
> be a really useful tool:-)
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
>
> Our Micro lives on a trailer in the backyard under a sun shade, and
> to launch the boat we have to push it around onto the beach in front
> of our place on a reasonably high tide (1.6 metres or more. To
> retrieve the boat, we also need at least 1.6 metres or more.
>
> So....the problem is that the boat sits very high on the trailer,
> but, if we had a trailer where the boat was much lower to the
ground
> it would be much easier to launch and retrieve at a greater range of
> tides.

I have been away for the past couple of weeks, so am a bit late
joining in on this thread but a couple of ideas have come to mind that
a person might consider when launching a micro in a soft sandy launch
location.

I might be tempted to try using a shovel called a "trenching shovel"
which is a narrow shovel with a deep blade and dig a couple of
trenches to back into which would lower the wheels to the depth that
would be equal to having a dropped axle with torsion bars. Then dig an
additonal trench to accept the micro's keel. This combination might
make it possible to launch in about a foot of water.

If one is really creative one might also consider the "Bruce Hallman"
launching technique by having strips of that stuff the white cutting
boards are made from - UMHW - or whatever it is called - attached to
the hull bottom. This allows one to back up into the trenches and slam
on the brakes and the boat self-launches:-)

To reload, one just winches the micro back up onto the trailer, after
digging an appropriate set of trenches.

I have a hand winch which attaches to the vehicle hitch and also acts
as a tongue extension for the trailer if it has a dolly wheel on the
tongue. This allows me to drive the launch vehicle well free of the
soft sand bottom and winch the trailer up to the vehicle without
getting the tailpipe submerged. (It has 50 feet of cable) I posted
some photos of the winch assembly on one of the Bolger locations, but
can't recall which one a the moment.

Nels (Who has used a trenching shovel to bury cables and finds it to
be a really useful tool:-)
Yes, well, ply or other boards on the sand would stop the trailer
digging too far into the sand, that's true enough, Wesley.

The problem we have at Pindimar, though, is that the beach shelves
out very gradually, so generally the water is probably shallower than
at the average ramp. It is this problem that I need to find a
solution to. It wouldn't really be an issue if we lived at this
place but because it's a weekender we don't get use out of the boat
too often unless there is a very good high tide to put the boat in
and a good high tide to get the boat out AND at the right times. So
that's the issue for us.

Hence I have been building a Michalak Scram Pram where draft is not
an issue. I will keep the Micro, though; fantastic boat

Greg F

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@d...> wrote:
>
> Maybe there's something I'm missing and maybe this is too obvious,
but
> what about laying down sheets of plywood on the sand for the
trailer
> wheels to ride on and using the tongue extension? I've seen 20 ton
> utility trucks drive on very muddy ground with 3/4" plywood and no
> problems, even on relatively steep hills.
>
> pindimarmicro wrote:
>
> >Yes, thanks Derek
> >
> >Clearly I need to think all this stuff trough a lot more and come
up
> >with some sensible solutions. I appreciate the input and thanks
> >again
> >
> >Greg
> >
> >--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hi Greg
> >>
> >>Thanks for the compliment :)
> >>
> >>The springs are simple leaf springs, [one full leaf and
> >>
> >>
> >two 'helpers']
> >
> >
> >>bearing on the underside of the frame rails. They're just about
> >>
> >>
> >impossible
> >
> >
> >>to see in any picture I have, since they're no longer than the
> >>
> >>
> >mudguard /
> >
> >
> >>fender.
> >>
> >>Cordially, I'd question the assertion that a solid axle is the
> >>
> >>
> >primary
> >
> >
> >>issue. With the boat balanced, the axle sits about nine inches
aft
> >>
> >>
> >of the
> >
> >
> >>cuddy bulkhead. Obviously different boats and trailers will vary
a
> >>
> >>
> >bit, but
> >
> >
> >>only by an inch or so. The keel at that point is about nine or
ten
> >>
> >>
> >inches
> >
> >
> >>deep; you will likely find that the hull fouls the wheels before
> >>
> >>
> >the axle
> >
> >
> >>has the chance to meet the keel. Half of a twelve inch rim's
> >>
> >>
> >diameter, plus
> >
> >
> >>a tire [and probably a guard] eat into the ten inches. Eight inch
> >>
> >>
> >rims would
> >
> >
> >>save a bit.
> >>
> >>Clearly lower is better, but if a dropped axle isn't available
you
> >>
> >>
> >could
> >
> >
> >>still get pretty low. Micro's quite a big boat for a launching
> >>
> >>
> >dolly, but it
> >
> >
> >>could be done. In your position I might be tempted to see what I
> >>
> >>
> >could get
> >
> >
> >>for the current trailer and put the money towards a different
> >>
> >>
> >trailer design
> >
> >
> >>instead.
> >>
> >>Good luck!
> >>Derek
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead horses
> >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Thanks Derek; no rush on the measurements, I won't be buying a trailer until
sometime next year! But I do appreciate you sharing the details of your
setup so thoroughly - it's taken much of the mystery out of an expensive and
critical aspect of building this boat!


Paul

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Derek Waters
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:30 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Micro trailer


Hi Paul

I'm away from home right now, but I'll call and ask my patient and
ever-loving wife to go out to the 'boatshop' with a tape measure. Stay
tuned.
Incidentally, those drop bars are welded with the vertical sections
consisting of two beefy angle-iron flanges on each end. The flanges provide
some triangulation. More triangulation would provide more rigidity, but I
don't think it's an issue; the lateral forces there are nowhere near testing
the strength of the current setup. Those drop bars were what the trailer
manufacturer suggested when I went to them talking about the bent cross
member type of designs.

cheers
Derek




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Hi Paul

I'm away from home right now, but I'll call and ask my patient and
ever-loving wife to go out to the 'boatshop' with a tape measure. Stay
tuned.
Incidentally, those drop bars are welded with the vertical sections
consisting of two beefy angle-iron flanges on each end. The flanges provide
some triangulation. More triangulation would provide more rigidity, but I
don't think it's an issue; the lateral forces there are nowhere near testing
the strength of the current setup. Those drop bars were what the trailer
manufacturer suggested when I went to them talking about the bent cross
member type of designs.

cheers
Derek
well, I've got a different idea...

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
BllFs6@...
...
you could run a beam that connects the 2 "ends" of the L, forming
a triangle, yet still allowing for the bottom of the keel to remain low. It
would add little to the cost, and would make the trailer MUCH MUCH
stronger
and more rigid.



I'm thinking if I knew how much drop there is, I could compare it with the
trailers I've seen with bent crossmembers - I don't think they dip quite as
much, but it would be good to know the depth of the dip; that way you
eliminate those joints and right angles altogether, but still get down lower
in the middle where it counts. I'm just trying to get a bead on the
dimensions necessary to get to this.

Derek, I thought of another question along with the last - how high off the
ground is the aft-most crossmember at its bottom? (if you don't mind!). The
one thing that has not yet been dicussed here is how low can you really go
before you can't get through even the most minor dips and such you're likely
to encounter when trailering!

thanks again

Paul
In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:59:51 AM Central Standard Time,
paul@...writes:

Perhaps I should add that I am not claiming this to be the best or
only way to deal with the trailering question, but it has worked for
us. The pictures show that we have a few inches more 'drop' available
to us before the hull approaches the fenders.

Flickr images are at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99727636@N00/

cheers
Derek






Hi,

That is a nice trailer there.

But I wanted to point out something.

If you look at the trailer from the back, you will note that there are "U
shaped" sections formed at the rear of the trailer as well as at the "dropped
axle" to allow for the keel depth...which is fine...

Each side of the U could is L shaped. If you really wanted to strengthen the
U/L shape you could run a beam that connects the 2 "ends" of the L, forming
a triangle, yet still allowing for the bottom of the keel to remain low. It
would add little to the cost, and would make the trailer MUCH MUCH stronger
and more rigid.

take care

BLLL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
those photos really do show alot.

How much is the drop of those lowered crossmembers from the level of the
side rails? And are those 12" wheels with a drop axle? That's a nice rig,
really looks like it's about as good as it could get for these boats. Thanks
for posting those pics, that will really help - I've been trailer shopping
several times but never felt I was sure enough about what I wanted to follow
through with anything. This gives something to shoot for.

And by the way that's a very smart looking Micro in the water too...

Paul L

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
alefoot
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 5:34 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro trailer


On the '..worth a thousand words' principle, I've opsted a couple of
pictures of our trailer setup on Flickr. AFAIK, they can be viewed by
anyone without needing to join or sign on to Flickr, but in any case,
your Yahoo ID suffices.

Perhaps I should add that I am not claiming this to be the best or
only way to deal with the trailering question, but it has worked for
us. The pictures show that we have a few inches more 'drop' available
to us before the hull approaches the fenders.

Flickr images are at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99727636@N00/

cheers
Derek
Maybe there's something I'm missing and maybe this is too obvious, but
what about laying down sheets of plywood on the sand for the trailer
wheels to ride on and using the tongue extension? I've seen 20 ton
utility trucks drive on very muddy ground with 3/4" plywood and no
problems, even on relatively steep hills.

pindimarmicro wrote:

>Yes, thanks Derek
>
>Clearly I need to think all this stuff trough a lot more and come up
>with some sensible solutions. I appreciate the input and thanks
>again
>
>Greg
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Greg
>>
>>Thanks for the compliment :)
>>
>>The springs are simple leaf springs, [one full leaf and
>>
>>
>two 'helpers']
>
>
>>bearing on the underside of the frame rails. They're just about
>>
>>
>impossible
>
>
>>to see in any picture I have, since they're no longer than the
>>
>>
>mudguard /
>
>
>>fender.
>>
>>Cordially, I'd question the assertion that a solid axle is the
>>
>>
>primary
>
>
>>issue. With the boat balanced, the axle sits about nine inches aft
>>
>>
>of the
>
>
>>cuddy bulkhead. Obviously different boats and trailers will vary a
>>
>>
>bit, but
>
>
>>only by an inch or so. The keel at that point is about nine or ten
>>
>>
>inches
>
>
>>deep; you will likely find that the hull fouls the wheels before
>>
>>
>the axle
>
>
>>has the chance to meet the keel. Half of a twelve inch rim's
>>
>>
>diameter, plus
>
>
>>a tire [and probably a guard] eat into the ten inches. Eight inch
>>
>>
>rims would
>
>
>>save a bit.
>>
>>Clearly lower is better, but if a dropped axle isn't available you
>>
>>
>could
>
>
>>still get pretty low. Micro's quite a big boat for a launching
>>
>>
>dolly, but it
>
>
>>could be done. In your position I might be tempted to see what I
>>
>>
>could get
>
>
>>for the current trailer and put the money towards a different
>>
>>
>trailer design
>
>
>>instead.
>>
>>Good luck!
>>Derek
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yes, thanks Derek

Clearly I need to think all this stuff trough a lot more and come up
with some sensible solutions. I appreciate the input and thanks
again

Greg

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg
>
> Thanks for the compliment :)
>
> The springs are simple leaf springs, [one full leaf and
two 'helpers']
> bearing on the underside of the frame rails. They're just about
impossible
> to see in any picture I have, since they're no longer than the
mudguard /
> fender.
>
> Cordially, I'd question the assertion that a solid axle is the
primary
> issue. With the boat balanced, the axle sits about nine inches aft
of the
> cuddy bulkhead. Obviously different boats and trailers will vary a
bit, but
> only by an inch or so. The keel at that point is about nine or ten
inches
> deep; you will likely find that the hull fouls the wheels before
the axle
> has the chance to meet the keel. Half of a twelve inch rim's
diameter, plus
> a tire [and probably a guard] eat into the ten inches. Eight inch
rims would
> save a bit.
>
> Clearly lower is better, but if a dropped axle isn't available you
could
> still get pretty low. Micro's quite a big boat for a launching
dolly, but it
> could be done. In your position I might be tempted to see what I
could get
> for the current trailer and put the money towards a different
trailer design
> instead.
>
> Good luck!
> Derek
>
Hi Greg

Thanks for the compliment :)

The springs are simple leaf springs, [one full leaf and two 'helpers']
bearing on the underside of the frame rails. They're just about impossible
to see in any picture I have, since they're no longer than the mudguard /
fender.

Cordially, I'd question the assertion that a solid axle is the primary
issue. With the boat balanced, the axle sits about nine inches aft of the
cuddy bulkhead. Obviously different boats and trailers will vary a bit, but
only by an inch or so. The keel at that point is about nine or ten inches
deep; you will likely find that the hull fouls the wheels before the axle
has the chance to meet the keel. Half of a twelve inch rim's diameter, plus
a tire [and probably a guard] eat into the ten inches. Eight inch rims would
save a bit.

Clearly lower is better, but if a dropped axle isn't available you could
still get pretty low. Micro's quite a big boat for a launching dolly, but it
could be done. In your position I might be tempted to see what I could get
for the current trailer and put the money towards a different trailer design
instead.

Good luck!
Derek
yes, thanks Mike

Actually, the whole idea of a beam axle is really the issue.

I know that the trailer the Dutch Micro was on looked like it had the
keel quite close to the ground but in the photo that was in the
classified ads in the Oct 2000 edition of Watercraft magazine you
couldn't see much detail. The guy standing beside the boat was about
the same height as the whole structure, though, so I would love to
see how that trailer was constructed

Greg

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelspanjer" <michaelspanjer@y...>
wrote:
>
> In the Us, redneck trailer parts or KMTparts.com sell light-duty
> trailer axles which are straight or custom-drop.
> I'm guessing the soft sand further out is what keeps you from using
a
> tongue extension and just letting the trailer further out into the
> water? Just thinking a tongue extension would be easier than re-
> building the whole trailer.
> -Mike (Kentucky, US)
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry Jamers <welshman@p...> wrote:
> >
> > Hes talking about a dropped axle which means the the axle isn't
> straight
> > with the wheel on each end but has piece on each end that allows
the
> > axle to be lower than the center of the wheel. Here is a Northern
> Tool
> > dropped axle. They have torsion ones also
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/dslye
> >
> > HJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > pindimarmicro wrote:
> > > Hello Derek
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working
out
> what
> > > you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the
boat
> on
> > > the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right
sort
> of
> > > computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At
> present
> > > I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The
beach
> is
> > > a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> > > metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on
lots
> of
> > > tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where
the
> sand
> > > tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's
the
> > > real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation
tomorrow
> > >
> > > Thanksd again
> > >
> > > Greg F
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Greg
> > >>
> > >> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
> > >>
> > >> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> > >>
> > > [google those
> > >
> > >> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> > >> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at
present?
> > >>
> > > It's
> > >
> > >> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less
than a
> a
> > >>
> > > meter
> > >
> > >> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped
cross
> > >>
> > > members so
> > >
> > >> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf
springs.
> > >>
> > > It's not a
> > >
> > >> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> > >>
> > > modification.
> > >
> > >> Pictures would help.
> > >>
> > >> cheers
> > >> Derek
>
> > >
>
Yes, I see what you mean about the central spine, Derek

By the way, the pictures of your trailer are not too clear regarding
the springs, but what type of springs are they?

Those few inches would make a lot of difference when launching, for
sure.

The alternative that I have thought about is having one trailet (or
trolley) to put the boat in the water at home but keeping the current
trailer for road use, if we ever need that. So far, the only time we
have taken it on a proper road is the day we picked it up in
Newcastle. That way, the trailer for taking the boat from the yard
to the water would not need to have suspension etc. I wonder if
anyone has done something like that?

Anyway, your boat and trailer look very good

Greg

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "alefoot" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg
>
> Since your existing trailer is one of those with a central 'spine' I
> don't think any modification short of a complete rebuild is going to
> help much, sorry. If you look at the pictures of our trailer you can
> see that the 'Y-ladder' frame construction allows the keel to sit
> lower than the frame rails, obviously not an option with a single
> central rail. FWIW, our boat floats off when the forward support
bunks
> are awash. Perhaps it's not clear in the picture; those bunks are
> about under the forward cabin bulkhead.
>
> If you are in the market for a replacement trailer it would be worth
> talking to local trailer builders about what they can offer; for us
at
> least 'custom' cost no more than standard. Some of the skiboats
around
> here ride on trailers with curved crossmembers where the middle is
> lower than the side rails and maybe one of those would be a starting
> point. Taking even a quickie cardboard model of the hull to wave at
> the trailer guys would be worthwhile - Micro isn't what they are
used
> to thinking of, shape wise :)
>
> cheers
> Derek.
>
In the Us, redneck trailer parts or KMTparts.com sell light-duty
trailer axles which are straight or custom-drop.
I'm guessing the soft sand further out is what keeps you from using a
tongue extension and just letting the trailer further out into the
water? Just thinking a tongue extension would be easier than re-
building the whole trailer.
-Mike (Kentucky, US)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry Jamers <welshman@p...> wrote:
>
> Hes talking about a dropped axle which means the the axle isn't
straight
> with the wheel on each end but has piece on each end that allows the
> axle to be lower than the center of the wheel. Here is a Northern
Tool
> dropped axle. They have torsion ones also
>
>http://tinyurl.com/dslye
>
> HJ
>
>
>
>
> pindimarmicro wrote:
> > Hello Derek
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out
what
> > you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the boat
on
> > the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort
of
> > computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At
present
> > I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The beach
is
> > a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> > metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on lots
of
> > tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the
sand
> > tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's the
> > real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
> >
> > Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow
> >
> > Thanksd again
> >
> > Greg F
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg
> >>
> >> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
> >>
> >> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> >>
> > [google those
> >
> >> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> >> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
> >>
> > It's
> >
> >> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a
a
> >>
> > meter
> >
> >> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
> >>
> > members so
> >
> >> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
> >>
> > It's not a
> >
> >> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> >>
> > modification.
> >
> >> Pictures would help.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Derek

> >
Hi Greg

Since your existing trailer is one of those with a central 'spine' I
don't think any modification short of a complete rebuild is going to
help much, sorry. If you look at the pictures of our trailer you can
see that the 'Y-ladder' frame construction allows the keel to sit
lower than the frame rails, obviously not an option with a single
central rail. FWIW, our boat floats off when the forward support bunks
are awash. Perhaps it's not clear in the picture; those bunks are
about under the forward cabin bulkhead.

If you are in the market for a replacement trailer it would be worth
talking to local trailer builders about what they can offer; for us at
least 'custom' cost no more than standard. Some of the skiboats around
here ride on trailers with curved crossmembers where the middle is
lower than the side rails and maybe one of those would be a starting
point. Taking even a quickie cardboard model of the hull to wave at
the trailer guys would be worthwhile - Micro isn't what they are used
to thinking of, shape wise :)

cheers
Derek.
Oops! Fiddler ended up as the link;don't ask me how, but it's
actually the last photo uploaded on Bolger4Photos, anyway

Greg

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...> wrote:
>
> Hello Derek
>
> I have posted a picture of our Micro on its trailer in our backyard
> so you get a bit of an idea how high off the ground it is:
>
>
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&
> .dnm=Micro+trailer.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
> 3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/lst%3f%26.dir=/%
> 26.src=gr%26.view=t
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Greg
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Greg
> >
> > Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
> >
> > It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> [google those
> > three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> > How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
> It's
> > possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a
a
> meter
> > and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
> members so
> > the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
> It's not a
> > tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> modification.
> > Pictures would help.
> >
> > cheers
> > Derek
> >
>
Hello Derek

I have posted a picture of our Micro on its trailer in our backyard
so you get a bit of an idea how high off the ground it is:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&
.dnm=Micro+trailer.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/lst%3f%26.dir=/%
26.src=gr%26.view=t


Best wishes

Greg


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg
>
> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
>
> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
[google those
> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
It's
> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a
meter
> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
members so
> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
It's not a
> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
modification.
> Pictures would help.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
On the '..worth a thousand words' principle, I've opsted a couple of
pictures of our trailer setup on Flickr. AFAIK, they can be viewed by
anyone without needing to join or sign on to Flickr, but in any case,
your Yahoo ID suffices.

Perhaps I should add that I am not claiming this to be the best or
only way to deal with the trailering question, but it has worked for
us. The pictures show that we have a few inches more 'drop' available
to us before the hull approaches the fenders.

Flickr images are at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99727636@N00/

cheers
Derek
Unless you're measuring to the top of the fenders, in which case it's taken
care, then you should make sure to allow 4 to 6 inches of "jump space."
Without it, you get tire burns on your hull and may destroy the tire thru
heat build-up from rubbing on the bumps.

Roger (been there, done that)
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>

> <snip> one of the limiting factors is clearance
> from the hull undersides to the top of the trailer wheels.
Well, the micro we have has to be moved from the backyard through
the drive onto a dirt road for about 30 metres to the beach. The
beach, at high tide, is only a few metres wide, but as the tide goes
out it the beach just gets wider and wider!

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@i...> wrote:
>
> A while back I stumbled across a launching system which used
inflated
> rollers to move boats in and out of the water. Sort of like
these:
>http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1848but
more involved
> with some sort of guidance system.
>
> How far from the "floating point" do you have to move the boat?
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@N...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "pindimarmicro" <greg@p...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:17 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro trailer
>
>
> > Hello Derek
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out
what
> > you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the
boat on
> > the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort
of
> > computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At
present
> > I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The
beach is
> > a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> > metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on
lots of
> > tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the
sand
> > tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's the
> > real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
> >
> > Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow
> >
> > Thanksd again
> >
> > Greg F
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Greg
> >>
> >> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
> >>
> >> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> > [google those
> >> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> >> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at
present?
> > It's
> >> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than
a a
> > meter
> >> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped
cross
> > members so
> >> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
> > It's not a
> >> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> > modification.
> >> Pictures would help.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Derek
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Yes, I see, thanks Harry. That would certainly a few inches more
space to drop everything down a bit, I guess

Greg F

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry Jamers <welshman@p...> wrote:
>
> Hes talking about a dropped axle which means the the axle isn't
straight
> with the wheel on each end but has piece on each end that allows
the
> axle to be lower than the center of the wheel. Here is a Northern
Tool
> dropped axle. They have torsion ones also
>
>http://tinyurl.com/dslye
>
> HJ
>
>
>
>
> pindimarmicro wrote:
> > Hello Derek
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out
what
> > you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the
boat on
> > the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort
of
> > computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At
present
> > I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The
beach is
> > a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> > metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on
lots of
> > tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the
sand
> > tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's
the
> > real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
> >
> > Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow
> >
> > Thanksd again
> >
> > Greg F
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg
> >>
> >> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
> >>
> >> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> >>
> > [google those
> >
> >> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> >> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at
present?
> >>
> > It's
> >
> >> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than
a a
> >>
> > meter
> >
> >> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped
cross
> >>
> > members so
> >
> >> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
> >>
> > It's not a
> >
> >> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> >>
> > modification.
> >
> >> Pictures would help.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Derek
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks Derek; I had copied an earlier message from you on this same subject,
slightly different angle. I have wondered about the wheel clearance issues
so thanks for addressing that. My main concern is that the ramp I would use
is not paved far enough out at low tide - has a bit of a dropoff - so I want
to make sure my boat is as low as possible...

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Derek Waters
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:43 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro trailer


HiPAul

Our Micro lives on the trailer. Because the keel sweeps up forward I decided
to use a standard axle, rather than a dropped centre or torsion bars. Unless
you are looking at a wide trailer, one of the limiting factors is clearance
from the hull undersides to the top of the trailer wheels. The after cross
member is lower to the ground than the axle. If you want I can see if I have
any pictures showing the setup.

The ramp five minutes from our house is not very steep, so if I want to keep
the truck's exhaust pipe above water I use a simple tongue extension welded
up from a section of box-section steel and a spare ball and coupler. We can
launch and retrieve without it, at the expense of making a lot of
'blobalobaloble' noises.

cheers
Derek




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
HiPAul

Our Micro lives on the trailer. Because the keel sweeps up forward I decided
to use a standard axle, rather than a dropped centre or torsion bars. Unless
you are looking at a wide trailer, one of the limiting factors is clearance
from the hull undersides to the top of the trailer wheels. The after cross
member is lower to the ground than the axle. If you want I can see if I have
any pictures showing the setup.

The ramp five minutes from our house is not very steep, so if I want to keep
the truck's exhaust pipe above water I use a simple tongue extension welded
up from a section of box-section steel and a spare ball and coupler. We can
launch and retrieve without it, at the expense of making a lot of
'blobalobaloble' noises.

cheers
Derek
A while back I stumbled across a launching system which used inflated
rollers to move boats in and out of the water. Sort of like these:
http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1848but more involved
with some sort of guidance system.

How far from the "floating point" do you have to move the boat?

Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "pindimarmicro" <greg@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:17 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro trailer


> Hello Derek
>
> Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out what
> you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the boat on
> the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort of
> computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At present
> I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The beach is
> a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on lots of
> tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the sand
> tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's the
> real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
>
> Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow
>
> Thanksd again
>
> Greg F
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Greg
>>
>> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
>>
>> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
> [google those
>> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
>> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
> It's
>> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a
> meter
>> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
> members so
>> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
> It's not a
>> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
> modification.
>> Pictures would help.
>>
>> cheers
>> Derek
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Derek,

does your micro live on a trailer, or do you keep it in the water in
summertime? How steep does a ramp have to be to launch? Do you have a
long-tongue trailer or any kind of extensions, a tip-up trailer or any other
gadgetry to make this work? The ramp closest to my house (about 5 minutes)
is pretty steep, but drops into a fairly shallow bay with limited sailable
area at low tide and strong currents at the mouth to get out into the ocean.
So I'm worried about both trailer height for launching my Micro, and how big
a motor I"ll need to power through the rip to get outside... But for obvious
reasons the trailer comes first ;-)

Paul L

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Derek Waters
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:29 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro trailer


Hi Greg

Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...

It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer [google those
three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present? It's
possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a meter
and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross members so
the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs. It's not a
tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the modification.
Pictures would help.

cheers
Derek




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Hes talking about a dropped axle which means the the axle isn't straight
with the wheel on each end but has piece on each end that allows the
axle to be lower than the center of the wheel. Here is a Northern Tool
dropped axle. They have torsion ones also

http://tinyurl.com/dslye

HJ




pindimarmicro wrote:
> Hello Derek
>
> Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out what
> you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the boat on
> the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort of
> computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At present
> I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The beach is
> a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
> metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on lots of
> tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the sand
> tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's the
> real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.
>
> Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow
>
> Thanksd again
>
> Greg F
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg
>>
>> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
>>
>> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
>>
> [google those
>
>> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
>> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
>>
> It's
>
>> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a
>>
> meter
>
>> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
>>
> members so
>
>> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
>>
> It's not a
>
>> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
>>
> modification.
>
>> Pictures would help.
>>
>> cheers
>> Derek
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Derek

Thanks for the reply, although I am having a problem working out what
you mean about your trailer. I shall email a picture of the boat on
the trailer back on the site when I get access to the right sort of
computer (which means tomorrow) So maybe that will help. At present
I would say the boat is up a fair way (not sure, 50cm?) The beach is
a very gradual one and at high tide the water can be 1.6 or so
metres deep just a trailer lenght off the road, or so, but on lots of
tides the water can be quite shallow quite a way out - where the sand
tends to get quite soft and the trailer just digs in! That's the
real issue. The closer you are to the beach the firmer the sand.

Anyway, I'll try and post some pictures of the situation tomorrow

Thanksd again

Greg F

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg
>
> Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...
>
> It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer
[google those
> three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
> How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present?
It's
> possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a
meter
> and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross
members so
> the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs.
It's not a
> tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the
modification.
> Pictures would help.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
Hi Greg

Can't help with direct answers to your questions, but...

It sounds as though you are looking for a torsion axle trailer [google those
three words and you'lll have plenty to wade through].
How near to terra firma is the underside of your keel at present? It's
possible to use a 'standard' axle and launch in a lot less than a a meter
and a half of water; our Micro is on a trailer with dropped cross members so
the keel aft is lower than the axle height, using leaf springs. It's not a
tough welding job, and your current trailer might stand the modification.
Pictures would help.

cheers
Derek
Our Micro lives on a trailer in the backyard under a sun shade, and
to launch the boat we have to push it around onto the beach in front
of our place on a reasonably high tide (1.6 metres or more. To
retrieve the boat, we also need at least 1.6 metres or more.

So....the problem is that the boat sits very high on the trailer,
but, if we had a trailer where the boat was much lower to the ground
it would be much easier to launch and retrieve at a greater range of
tides. So...speaking of which...I remember the Dutch Micro that was
featured in Watercraft magazine (De Boor??) seemed to have a special
trailer which must have had independent suspension, thus allowing the
boat to sit much lower than the trailers I have seen, as the the boat
was shown on the trailer in a photo.

Would anyone have details of that trailer or be able to suggest
contact details for Mr De Boor(??)- or, perhaps know of any other
trailers which would meet this requirement?

Thanks for any help

Pindimarmicro (Greg F)