Re: Dark paint on epoxied topsides / thermal paint additive
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Doug Pollard <dougpol1@a...> wrote:
environmentally sound building practices. They review this product,
as well as similar ones.
http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_list.php
Nels
>Langley
> I sent an e-mail to a friend that used to be an engineer at NASA
> to see if he knew anything about the ceramic spheres that go intothe
> paint. He sent me the e-mail address of a lady ( engineer) whoshould
> have an answer. I am waiting for an answer from her . We mightfind out
> a little more from her. I'll post it if I get and answer back .With
> her permission of course.I found a link to a nation-wide "green building" site that advocates
>
environmentally sound building practices. They review this product,
as well as similar ones.
http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_list.php
Nels
All this talk about microspheres int he paint makes me think that it
sure would be nice if someone would put nanoparticles into varnish (like
the nano-titanium in modern sunscreen) to make it more UV resistant.
Seems like nanoparticles in paint might help with reflectivity, too.
This could lower the heat absorption without making the surface bumpy.
Patrick
Doug Pollard wrote:
sure would be nice if someone would put nanoparticles into varnish (like
the nano-titanium in modern sunscreen) to make it more UV resistant.
Seems like nanoparticles in paint might help with reflectivity, too.
This could lower the heat absorption without making the surface bumpy.
Patrick
Doug Pollard wrote:
>I sent an e-mail to a friend that used to be an engineer at NASA Langley
>to see if he knew anything about the ceramic spheres that go into the
>paint. He sent me the e-mail address of a lady ( engineer) who should
>have an answer. I am waiting for an answer from her . We might find out
>a little more from her. I'll post it if I get and answer back . With
>her permission of course.
>
> Doug
>
>
>Nels wrote:
>
>
>
>>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This product looks interesting and I have a notion to order some and
>>>try it out.
>>>
>>>
>>Forgot to provide the link!
>>
>>http://www.hytechsales.com/prod20.html
>>
>>Nels
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bolger rules!!!
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>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
I sent an e-mail to a friend that used to be an engineer at NASA Langley
to see if he knew anything about the ceramic spheres that go into the
paint. He sent me the e-mail address of a lady ( engineer) who should
have an answer. I am waiting for an answer from her . We might find out
a little more from her. I'll post it if I get and answer back . With
her permission of course.
Doug
Nels wrote:
to see if he knew anything about the ceramic spheres that go into the
paint. He sent me the e-mail address of a lady ( engineer) who should
have an answer. I am waiting for an answer from her . We might find out
a little more from her. I'll post it if I get and answer back . With
her permission of course.
Doug
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> >
> > This product looks interesting and I have a notion to order some and
> > try it out.
>
> Forgot to provide the link!
>
>http://www.hytechsales.com/prod20.html
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
http://www.hytechsales.com/prod20.html
Nels
>Forgot to provide the link!
> This product looks interesting and I have a notion to order some and
> try it out.
http://www.hytechsales.com/prod20.html
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
try it out. Claims you can even use it on glass, so you could coat
the entire boat, no matter what the color underneath. Go right over
the portlights, brightwork, white, green, varnished areas. My kind
of painting:-)
If the surface refects back more of the suns rays than a regular
smooth painted surface, then it also prevents heat from being
absorbed.
The area of a surface that is directly at right angles to the sun's
rays absorbs the most heat. So if you have a surface that is a
continuous layer of raised spheres, then it should not absorb as
much heat in theory as there is only a small percentage of the total
area that is vertical to the suns rays at any one time.
A person can perform their own tests by exposing a piece of plywood,
half of which is painted (with regular paint) at right angles to the
sun and feel which half gets hotter. Even an area painted a lighter
color will get hotter than the unpainted surface. Then clear coat
the painted surface and see what happens.
And Garth is correct that painted plywood can get hot enough to
soften epoxy and raise the grain under the paint. Especially fir as
we all know.
Nels
> But it got me wondering -- does anyone on the list have experiencedifference?
> using thermal additives to boat paint? Does it really make a
>This product looks interesting and I have a notion to order some and
> Garth
try it out. Claims you can even use it on glass, so you could coat
the entire boat, no matter what the color underneath. Go right over
the portlights, brightwork, white, green, varnished areas. My kind
of painting:-)
If the surface refects back more of the suns rays than a regular
smooth painted surface, then it also prevents heat from being
absorbed.
The area of a surface that is directly at right angles to the sun's
rays absorbs the most heat. So if you have a surface that is a
continuous layer of raised spheres, then it should not absorb as
much heat in theory as there is only a small percentage of the total
area that is vertical to the suns rays at any one time.
A person can perform their own tests by exposing a piece of plywood,
half of which is painted (with regular paint) at right angles to the
sun and feel which half gets hotter. Even an area painted a lighter
color will get hotter than the unpainted surface. Then clear coat
the painted surface and see what happens.
And Garth is correct that painted plywood can get hot enough to
soften epoxy and raise the grain under the paint. Especially fir as
we all know.
Nels
Some years ago I bought some ceramic paint, at the advice of a Bolger
list person from Oklahoma St. Quite expensive and it was white though.
It made a noticable difference when put on the metal roof on my house.
You could actually feel the abrasive like surface of the paint.
Unfortunately sap and pollen from trees(and other crud) turned it grey
in a couple of years. I've been thinking of power washing but I haven't
had the nerve to get up there. Clyde
GarthAB wrote:
list person from Oklahoma St. Quite expensive and it was white though.
It made a noticable difference when put on the metal roof on my house.
You could actually feel the abrasive like surface of the paint.
Unfortunately sap and pollen from trees(and other crud) turned it grey
in a couple of years. I've been thinking of power washing but I haven't
had the nerve to get up there. Clyde
GarthAB wrote:
> I've heard about how dark paint on glassed/epoxied topsides can lead
> to so much heat absoption that you reach the temperature where epoxy
I may have started this thing when i read about this paint a couple
of months ago and posted it to one of the forums as a possible way of
insulating an aluminum hull. As to the claim that nasa used this stuff
on the shuttle is hogwash. I ran a machine shop that did contract work
for Nasa Langly in Hampton Virginia. We machined the tile that whent on
the shuttle after they found out the original tiles would not stay in
place and they reglued them in place. The tiles where about an inch
thick and they had nothing to do with paint. You can hold one of those
in your hand and apply a cutting torch to the other side for for a
couple of minutes but even there the heat finally comes through. I was
involved with that project for about a year and they may have used paint
as insulation in some areas but not in the heat sheild area which these
claims don't bother to tell everyone. Nasa may have invented that paint
but its misleading to imply that the paint protected the shuttle. I'T
may have in some low heat areas but it really amazes me that I never
heard of it during that year or more.
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
of months ago and posted it to one of the forums as a possible way of
insulating an aluminum hull. As to the claim that nasa used this stuff
on the shuttle is hogwash. I ran a machine shop that did contract work
for Nasa Langly in Hampton Virginia. We machined the tile that whent on
the shuttle after they found out the original tiles would not stay in
place and they reglued them in place. The tiles where about an inch
thick and they had nothing to do with paint. You can hold one of those
in your hand and apply a cutting torch to the other side for for a
couple of minutes but even there the heat finally comes through. I was
involved with that project for about a year and they may have used paint
as insulation in some areas but not in the heat sheild area which these
claims don't bother to tell everyone. Nasa may have invented that paint
but its misleading to imply that the paint protected the shuttle. I'T
may have in some low heat areas but it really amazes me that I never
heard of it during that year or more.
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> ...I have to say it was amazing.
> David
>
> What you write sounds like magic in that it defies the laws of physics.
>
> The biggest challenge for NASA was the fire hot reentry temperatures,
> and I don't seen why that is relevant here, other than for marketing
> wizbang.
>
> Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and called
> bogus.
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
As far as reflecting heat, that's infrared light, below the visual spectrum.
We had an exciting piece of test equipment once that needed a VERY good
reflector. Chrome is cheaper, but it didn't work. The reflectors had to be
silver plated. To the eyeball, chrome appears cooler and more reflective.
(I'd still go with a light color myself.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
We had an exciting piece of test equipment once that needed a VERY good
reflector. Chrome is cheaper, but it didn't work. The reflectors had to be
silver plated. To the eyeball, chrome appears cooler and more reflective.
(I'd still go with a light color myself.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lipsey" <saillips@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Dark paint on epoxied topsides / thermal paint
additive
> Actually, Since Garth brought up the subject relative to his Michalak
> designed boat I've been reminiscing about what I saw 10 years ago, and
> thinking of trying it on the decks and topsides of my Bolger Birdwatcher2,
> (under construction), and my Catalina 22, (existing). That's my relevance.
> Anything that helps my boats, Bolger and otherwise, perform better, such
> as LEDs, 4 stroke outboards, insulating materials, etc. is relevant to me.
>
> I had a friend that used to (maybe still does) install the tiles on the
> shuttles. From what I remember her saying, the thermal protection was 2
> part: the tile body for "fire hot re-entry" and a coating on the tiles for
> reflecting as much of the heat as possible, which I assume is what I saw a
> decade ago and what the whizbangs are marketing.
>
> And FWIW, I build houses for a living and boats for a hobby. I have no
> marketing agenda of my own. But, in trying to keep an open mind, I am
> intriqued by the concept and its application (on boats and houses). That's
> why I can't wait to hear Garth's report before I run out and buy some.
> I never knew the reflecting properties of sunscreen and aluminum foil were
> science fiction! Thanks for setting me straight.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Hallman
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Dark paint on epoxied topsides / thermal paint
> additive
>
>
> ...I have to say it was amazing.
> David
>
> What you write sounds like magic in that it defies the laws of physics.
>
> The biggest challenge for NASA was the fire hot reentry temperatures,
> and I don't seen why that is relevant here, other than for marketing
> wizbang.
>
> Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and called
> bogus.
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety
> Great outdoors
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Actually, Since Garth brought up the subject relative to his Michalak designed boat I've been reminiscing about what I saw 10 years ago, and thinking of trying it on the decks and topsides of my Bolger Birdwatcher2, (under construction), and my Catalina 22, (existing). That's my relevance. Anything that helps my boats, Bolger and otherwise, perform better, such as LEDs, 4 stroke outboards, insulating materials, etc. is relevant to me.
I had a friend that used to (maybe still does) install the tiles on the shuttles. From what I remember her saying, the thermal protection was 2 part: the tile body for "fire hot re-entry" and a coating on the tiles for reflecting as much of the heat as possible, which I assume is what I saw a decade ago and what the whizbangs are marketing.
And FWIW, I build houses for a living and boats for a hobby. I have no marketing agenda of my own. But, in trying to keep an open mind, I am intriqued by the concept and its application (on boats and houses). That's why I can't wait to hear Garth's report before I run out and buy some.
I never knew the reflecting properties of sunscreen and aluminum foil were science fiction! Thanks for setting me straight.
I had a friend that used to (maybe still does) install the tiles on the shuttles. From what I remember her saying, the thermal protection was 2 part: the tile body for "fire hot re-entry" and a coating on the tiles for reflecting as much of the heat as possible, which I assume is what I saw a decade ago and what the whizbangs are marketing.
And FWIW, I build houses for a living and boats for a hobby. I have no marketing agenda of my own. But, in trying to keep an open mind, I am intriqued by the concept and its application (on boats and houses). That's why I can't wait to hear Garth's report before I run out and buy some.
I never knew the reflecting properties of sunscreen and aluminum foil were science fiction! Thanks for setting me straight.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Dark paint on epoxied topsides / thermal paint additive
...I have to say it was amazing.
David
What you write sounds like magic in that it defies the laws of physics.
The biggest challenge for NASA was the fire hot reentry temperatures,
and I don't seen why that is relevant here, other than for marketing wizbang.
Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and called bogus.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety
Great outdoors
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know the specifics of your boat and if I should, my apologies.
Another option, strictly in generic terms, is shade over the dark parts
of the boat.
GarthAB wrote:
Another option, strictly in generic terms, is shade over the dark parts
of the boat.
GarthAB wrote:
>Hi Bruce --
>
>Thanks for those links. I'm beginning to get the sense that the best
>way to decrease heat absorption in dark topsides is to . . . paint
>them white. Alas. I do love my dark green boat. . . .
>
>I'll do a few experimental paint jobs on scrap wood this spring and
>leave them out in the sun, just to see what happens.
>
>Garth
>
>
>
>
>
>>Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and
>>
>>
>called bogus.
>
>
>>
>>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
>
>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
>>
>>
>>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi Bruce --
Thanks for those links. I'm beginning to get the sense that the best
way to decrease heat absorption in dark topsides is to . . . paint
them white. Alas. I do love my dark green boat. . . .
I'll do a few experimental paint jobs on scrap wood this spring and
leave them out in the sun, just to see what happens.
Garth
Thanks for those links. I'm beginning to get the sense that the best
way to decrease heat absorption in dark topsides is to . . . paint
them white. Alas. I do love my dark green boat. . . .
I'll do a few experimental paint jobs on scrap wood this spring and
leave them out in the sun, just to see what happens.
Garth
>called bogus.
> Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
>
...I have to say it was amazing.
David
What you write sounds like magic in that it defies the laws of physics.
The biggest challenge for NASA was the fire hot reentry temperatures,
and I don't seen why that is relevant here, other than for marketing wizbang.
Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and called bogus.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
David
What you write sounds like magic in that it defies the laws of physics.
The biggest challenge for NASA was the fire hot reentry temperatures,
and I don't seen why that is relevant here, other than for marketing wizbang.
Ceramic paint additive is discussed over in the newsgroups and called bogus.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.architecture.alternative/msg/81e8053debcd3cde?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/msg/22f84c6648dbe898?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy/msg/e5d6e3497d6ce091?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/22a67a102f918e12?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/12c36ca5d19326e7?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/8faaad3d770c560c?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.house/msg/0c944ccbfbf1b304?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/f5a9827516d6fa3d?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/msg/fe68e8333b650db3?hl=en&
I believe this company's product is quite different from plain glass micro-spheres. About 10 years ago, we used to sell some thermal/ceramic products from Japan that used the NASA technology. From what I remember, NASA developed the ceramic technology for the tiles on the space shuttle. It insulated from conductive transfer and reflected heat from radiation (and convection?). From what I understand, during some of the budget cuts in the '80s-'90s, NASA decided to raise money by selling this patented ceramic technology by licensing other companies to produce and use it.
We had a sample ceramic disc that we would use for demonstrations, in which we would put ice cubes on the sample disc and on another plain ceramic dish.
By reflecting the ambient room heat, the NASA plate would melt the ice literally before your eyes in about 30-60 seconds, as the ice on the control plate (one of our household ceramic plates) would sit and melt slowly. The cincher for me was that within a few seconds, the NASA plate was ICE COLD to the touch! In other words, it wasn't melting the ice because it was warm or acting as a thermal "sink".
We heard stories back then about how this stuff was used in Japan to paint the inside houses, the result being that your body heat was reflected back at you, and so less energy was used to heat the house. It was designed to reflect infra-red spectrum.
Having seen it first hand, I have to say it was amazing.
David
We had a sample ceramic disc that we would use for demonstrations, in which we would put ice cubes on the sample disc and on another plain ceramic dish.
By reflecting the ambient room heat, the NASA plate would melt the ice literally before your eyes in about 30-60 seconds, as the ice on the control plate (one of our household ceramic plates) would sit and melt slowly. The cincher for me was that within a few seconds, the NASA plate was ICE COLD to the touch! In other words, it wasn't melting the ice because it was warm or acting as a thermal "sink".
We heard stories back then about how this stuff was used in Japan to paint the inside houses, the result being that your body heat was reflected back at you, and so less energy was used to heat the house. It was designed to reflect infra-red spectrum.
Having seen it first hand, I have to say it was amazing.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Dark paint on epoxied topsides / thermal paint additive
> "Now you can make any Paint... A radiant heat reflecting, insulating,
> thermal barrier coating
> HY-TECH ceramic insulating paint additive is a fine, white powder
> blend of high strength ceramic "microspheres". Each single ceramic
> microsphere is so small that it looks to the naked eye as if it is a
> single grain of flour, ( slightly thicker than a human hair)."
>http://www.hytechsales.com/
As glass and ceramic are similar things, I wonder if the white powder
you bought is similar (or the same) as the glass microspheres sold for
epoxy work?
My 8th grader is studying thermal transfer in science class this week,
and I have just re-learned that heat can be transfered by convection,
radiation or condution.
Alhough HY-TECH say 'heat reflecting', In this case they seem to hope
to block the thermal tranfer by conduction. It appears obvious that
the 'R Factor" of the conductive insulation possible in a film of
paint is near zero. If indeed they are hoping to block thermal
transfer by 'reflecting' radiation, you would expect the paint to be
whiter or more shiny to visible light.
All in all, I am very skeptical of their claims!
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "Now you can make any Paint... A radiant heat reflecting, insulating,As glass and ceramic are similar things, I wonder if the white powder
> thermal barrier coating
> HY-TECH ceramic insulating paint additive is a fine, white powder
> blend of high strength ceramic "microspheres". Each single ceramic
> microsphere is so small that it looks to the naked eye as if it is a
> single grain of flour, ( slightly thicker than a human hair)."
>http://www.hytechsales.com/
you bought is similar (or the same) as the glass microspheres sold for
epoxy work?
My 8th grader is studying thermal transfer in science class this week,
and I have just re-learned that heat can be transfered by convection,
radiation or condution.
Alhough HY-TECH say 'heat reflecting', In this case they seem to hope
to block the thermal tranfer by conduction. It appears obvious that
the 'R Factor" of the conductive insulation possible in a film of
paint is near zero. If indeed they are hoping to block thermal
transfer by 'reflecting' radiation, you would expect the paint to be
whiter or more shiny to visible light.
All in all, I am very skeptical of their claims!
I've heard about how dark paint on glassed/epoxied topsides can lead
to so much heat absoption that you reach the temperature where epoxy
softens, and you lose strength, and possibly get warping or
print-through of your glass. I noticed last summer that when my boat
was left out in the sun, especially later in the afternoon when the
low-angle sunlight hit the sides more squarely, parts of the boat got
almost too hot to touch.
And then someone a few months back mentioned thermal paint additives.
So I just ordered some online. (You can see my acute wishful thinking
-- with painting season three months away).
It was $11.95 for enough to mix into 1 gallon of paint. Enough to
cover the dark parts of my Cormorant. I figure it's a cheap enough
experiment for a good cause.
But it got me wondering -- does anyone on the list have experience
using thermal additives to boat paint? Does it really make a difference?
Garth
PS: Here's what I ordered:
"Now you can make any Paint... A radiant heat reflecting, insulating,
thermal barrier coating
HY-TECH ceramic insulating paint additive is a fine, white powder
blend of high strength ceramic "microspheres". Each single ceramic
microsphere is so small that it looks to the naked eye as if it is a
single grain of flour, ( slightly thicker than a human hair)."
http://www.hytechsales.com/
to so much heat absoption that you reach the temperature where epoxy
softens, and you lose strength, and possibly get warping or
print-through of your glass. I noticed last summer that when my boat
was left out in the sun, especially later in the afternoon when the
low-angle sunlight hit the sides more squarely, parts of the boat got
almost too hot to touch.
And then someone a few months back mentioned thermal paint additives.
So I just ordered some online. (You can see my acute wishful thinking
-- with painting season three months away).
It was $11.95 for enough to mix into 1 gallon of paint. Enough to
cover the dark parts of my Cormorant. I figure it's a cheap enough
experiment for a good cause.
But it got me wondering -- does anyone on the list have experience
using thermal additives to boat paint? Does it really make a difference?
Garth
PS: Here's what I ordered:
"Now you can make any Paint... A radiant heat reflecting, insulating,
thermal barrier coating
HY-TECH ceramic insulating paint additive is a fine, white powder
blend of high strength ceramic "microspheres". Each single ceramic
microsphere is so small that it looks to the naked eye as if it is a
single grain of flour, ( slightly thicker than a human hair)."
http://www.hytechsales.com/