Re: How to Prevent Epoxy - Metal Adhesion?
--- "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@y...> wrote:
Then I could do like I would with metal: Drill a hole into the cured
epoxy, then cut a thread with a (3-part) "thread drill"?
But I'd prefer that I don't need to order there ;)
--- "Aaron Edelman" <kiwival@h...> wrote:
In fact, for really large loads, I can use the connecting screws.
You'll see once everything is finished.
And it will not be salt-water. Just acid rain ;)
I'll look to get some and check the dimensions.
Their shape would also make it more difficult to pull them out.
is quite thin, therefore I cannout mount much larger screws.
But once I figured out how to do it best, for the next bigger boat, I
would use thicker screws.
Thanks,
and Cheers,
Stefan
waiting for the upcoming Lunar New Year: One week boat building
holidays ... well, not really, there are family obligations, other
things to do, ... but, the intentions are there, at least ...
> Forget the nuts. Drill larger hole. Prime with straight epoxy.You mean like the epoxy could take over the function of the nuts?
> Pour in somewhat thickened epoxy. Stick in a greased bolt.
> Maybe WD-40 would work. Unscrew when epoxy is somewhat set.
Then I could do like I would with metal: Drill a hole into the cured
epoxy, then cut a thread with a (3-part) "thread drill"?
> HOWEVER, I think I prefer the T-nut idea, well bedded.Yes. In the US. And even in Germany. ....
> They can be had in stainless.
But I'd prefer that I don't need to order there ;)
--- "Aaron Edelman" <kiwival@h...> wrote:
> I would suggest to position the nuts NOT FROM THE TOP.Cannot. There is the connection log.
> Place them on the side of the sheer strake
In fact, for really large loads, I can use the connecting screws.
You'll see once everything is finished.
> or possibly even from underneath.Too thin.
> If you place the nuts with the opening facing UP,I will use stainless (or at least very well coated) nuts.
> (even with a screw in it) they will always collect water.
And it will not be salt-water. Just acid rain ;)
> Instead of regular nuts, use WING NUTS, then glue them into placeThat sounds like a good idea. Thanks!
> with your epoxy. You will definitely not have any chance of them
> turning.
I'll look to get some and check the dimensions.
Their shape would also make it more difficult to pull them out.
> Go to a minimum of 3/8"or better even 1/2".As said in my other post. It is just for a small boat. The sheer line
> 1/4" just seems too small.
is quite thin, therefore I cannout mount much larger screws.
But once I figured out how to do it best, for the next bigger boat, I
would use thicker screws.
> To prevent the possiblity of rusting, have you thought ofBut also not very strong in all directions.
> (maybe) using plastic nuts and bolts (like you use for fastening
> the license plates on your car). Very cheap and no rust.
Thanks,
and Cheers,
Stefan
waiting for the upcoming Lunar New Year: One week boat building
holidays ... well, not really, there are family obligations, other
things to do, ... but, the intentions are there, at least ...
Thanks everybody who answered so far. Did anybody mention it already
that this is a great place to learn? ;)
--- "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
with the thinner pilot hole is exactly what I plan. I just want to
make the screw removable.
--- "Gordon Snapp" <grsnapp@c...> wrote:
This would through me back again some days (with waiting until it is
cured). And with cold weather, I'd like to make good use of any
acceptable day ...
that the corners of the hex shape "stick out" and allow the epoxy to
grip them.
use it right now only on a 2-feet wide kind-of-a canoe. Try to mount
some kind of foldable sun shield (nicknamed bimini top), maybe a one
foot long sheer-doubler to which I could mount oar locks, and a
console with the battery electronics, ...
And most of all - try the technique so that I maybe can use it later
on a bigger boat - with bigger screws/nuts.
What I will do, is to make sure that the top nut is at least flush
with the surface, maybe stick out a fraction of a mm. Just make sure
that when tightening the screw I don't pull out the nuts.
but the epoxy might shrink a bit, thus changing the distance of the
nuts to each other, i.e. the thread might not be continuous anymore.
On the other side: Mount the nuts onto the screw. Hold the assembly
with a piece of cloth covering the nuts. Hold it upright (head on
top). Spray the bottom end. Push it into the hole without changing the
upright position ...
Anyway. The "hot iron" will solve any problems, if they arise....
Starting from Noah, up to the air plane pionieers ...
Anyway. We'll see what comes out...
Thanks to all!
Stefan
that this is a great place to learn? ;)
--- "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> go to the following site:Great! It shows that my idea is not that crazy after all. What they do
>http://www.westsystem.com/
> Select using West Epoxy and then select Basic Techniques.
> There is a section there on bonding fasteners in place.
with the thinner pilot hole is exactly what I plan. I just want to
make the screw removable.
--- "Gordon Snapp" <grsnapp@c...> wrote:
>Yes, but ...
> First of all, I'd suggest trying this in some scrap first.
This would through me back again some days (with waiting until it is
cured). And with cold weather, I'd like to make good use of any
acceptable day ...
> The most obvious thing to do would be to rough up the surfaceI'll do that, too, but the main thing is not to align the nuts, so
> of the nuts, to give the epoxy a way to make a physical bond.
that the corners of the hex shape "stick out" and allow the epoxy to
grip them.
> Secondly, I think I'd use epoxy thickened with glass fibers,I am fully aware that this whole construction doesn't hold too much. I
> which seems to me would add some strength to resist the torquing
> of the nuts.
use it right now only on a 2-feet wide kind-of-a canoe. Try to mount
some kind of foldable sun shield (nicknamed bimini top), maybe a one
foot long sheer-doubler to which I could mount oar locks, and a
console with the battery electronics, ...
And most of all - try the technique so that I maybe can use it later
on a bigger boat - with bigger screws/nuts.
What I will do, is to make sure that the top nut is at least flush
with the surface, maybe stick out a fraction of a mm. Just make sure
that when tightening the screw I don't pull out the nuts.
> Third, in order to get the threads lined up, I'd go with the ideaYes, that was the reason.
> of putting the screw inside the nuts when I set the epoxy.
> Then I'd wait an hour or two (until the thickened epoxy is settingMaybe not the horizontal position (i.e. they still would be lined up),
> up, but you can still make an indentation with your thumbnail.)
> I think at that point you could take the screw out without
> disturbing the position of the nuts.
but the epoxy might shrink a bit, thus changing the distance of the
nuts to each other, i.e. the thread might not be continuous anymore.
> Again, doing a trial run first would probably give you an ideaMaybe I can't avoid it ... ;)
> of how well this works.
> Putting oil on the screw might work, but I'd be afraid of gettingGood point. Wax might be safer.
> some on the nuts and jeoparizing the bond of the epoxy.
On the other side: Mount the nuts onto the screw. Hold the assembly
with a piece of cloth covering the nuts. Hold it upright (head on
top). Spray the bottom end. Push it into the hole without changing the
upright position ...
Anyway. The "hot iron" will solve any problems, if they arise....
> One of the great things about amateur boatbuilding is thatYup. And don't forget: Pioneers were usually/often amateurs.
> after awhile you start to get all sorts of odd ideas for how
> to solve problems, or how to add non-standard features to your boat,
> and you can even come up with some solutions that just might work.
Starting from Noah, up to the air plane pionieers ...
Anyway. We'll see what comes out...
Thanks to all!
Stefan
Stefan
Forget the nuts. Drill larger hole. Prime with straight epoxy. Pour in
somewhat thickened epoxy. Stick in a greased bolt. Maybe WD-40 would
work. Unscrew when epoxy is somewhat set.
HOWEVER, I think I prefer the T-nut idea, well bedded. They can be had
in stainless.
Joe T
Forget the nuts. Drill larger hole. Prime with straight epoxy. Pour in
somewhat thickened epoxy. Stick in a greased bolt. Maybe WD-40 would
work. Unscrew when epoxy is somewhat set.
HOWEVER, I think I prefer the T-nut idea, well bedded. They can be had
in stainless.
Joe T
>
> Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@o...> wrote:
> With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
>
> I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
> mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
>
> What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
> diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
> top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
> of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
> three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
> place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
> than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
> the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
> bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
>
> Thanks for ideas.
>
> Stefan
>
If you don't find a suitable non-stickum, heating the screw with a soldering iron will probably soften the epoxy enough to back it out. I recommend starting it with a manual screwdriver to make sure you don't strip the head at the outset. At least this technique is used to temporarily clamp part together. I've not tried using machine screws in embedded nuts. You might end up softening the epoxy holding the nuts as well as the epoxy on the screw with bad results.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> wrote:
Dear All,
since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building than
the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directly
Bolger related:
With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
Thanks for ideas.
Stefan
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- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> wrote:
Dear All,
since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building than
the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directly
Bolger related:
With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
Thanks for ideas.
Stefan
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Alaska outdoors Boating magazine Boating safety Great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First of all, I'd suggest trying this in some scrap first. Your not talking about a significant investment in materials, and after your first try you may hit on the perfect way to do this.
The most obvious thing to do would be to rough up the surface of the nuts, to give the epoxy a way to make a physical bond. I don't know which would be more effective, using sandpaper or a file to make a ton of little scratches, or something bigger (like a really rough file, or even a hacksaw?) to make really deep grooves for the epoxy. If I was doing this I'd probably try both.
Secondly, I think I'd use epoxy thickened with glass fibers, which seems to me would add some strength to resist the torquing of the nuts.
Third, in order to get the threads lined up, I'd go with the idea of putting the screw inside the nuts when I set the epoxy. Then I'd wait an hour or two (until the thickened epoxy is setting up, but you can still make an indentation with your thumbnail.) I think at that point you could take the screw out without disturbing the position of the nuts. Again, doing a trial run first would probably give you an idea of how well this works. Putting oil on the screw might work, but I'd be afraid of getting some on the nuts and jeoparizing the bond of the epoxy.
One of the great things about amateur boatbuilding is that after awhile you start to get all sorts of odd ideas for how to solve problems, or how to add non-standard features to your boat, and you can even come up with some solutions that just might work. One of the bad things about amateur boatbuilding is that sometimes your ideas work for awhile, then fail at the most inopportune times. But as soon as something fails, you immediately start contriving ways to fix it and make improvements!
- Gordon
Central Coast of California
The most obvious thing to do would be to rough up the surface of the nuts, to give the epoxy a way to make a physical bond. I don't know which would be more effective, using sandpaper or a file to make a ton of little scratches, or something bigger (like a really rough file, or even a hacksaw?) to make really deep grooves for the epoxy. If I was doing this I'd probably try both.
Secondly, I think I'd use epoxy thickened with glass fibers, which seems to me would add some strength to resist the torquing of the nuts.
Third, in order to get the threads lined up, I'd go with the idea of putting the screw inside the nuts when I set the epoxy. Then I'd wait an hour or two (until the thickened epoxy is setting up, but you can still make an indentation with your thumbnail.) I think at that point you could take the screw out without disturbing the position of the nuts. Again, doing a trial run first would probably give you an idea of how well this works. Putting oil on the screw might work, but I'd be afraid of getting some on the nuts and jeoparizing the bond of the epoxy.
One of the great things about amateur boatbuilding is that after awhile you start to get all sorts of odd ideas for how to solve problems, or how to add non-standard features to your boat, and you can even come up with some solutions that just might work. One of the bad things about amateur boatbuilding is that sometimes your ideas work for awhile, then fail at the most inopportune times. But as soon as something fails, you immediately start contriving ways to fix it and make improvements!
- Gordon
Central Coast of California
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Probst
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: [bolger] How to Prevent Epoxy - Metal Adhesion?
Dear All,
since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building than
the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directly
Bolger related:
With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
Thanks for ideas.
Stefan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You could heat the screw or bolt with a soldering iron, remove it,
then replace it with a clean one.
Jim
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
then replace it with a clean one.
Jim
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
>than
> Dear All,
>
> since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
> list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building
> the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directlyget
> Bolger related:
>
> With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
>
> I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
> mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
>
> What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
> diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
> top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
> of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
> three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
> place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
> than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to
> the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick atthe
> bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
>
> Thanks for ideas.
>
> Stefan
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
will be in groups of 4 and support a socket of some kind?
Nels
wrote:
>This looks like a potential source of rust and rot, if left open.
> Dear All,
>
> I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
> mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
>I can't quite visualize 6 mm bolts supporting a bimini - unless they
> What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
> diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4").
will be in groups of 4 and support a socket of some kind?
Nels
Wax the screws.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
>this
> Dear All,
>
> since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that
> list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat buildingthan
> the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directlycan
> Bolger related:
>
> With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
>
> I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I
> mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.diameter
>
> What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
> diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
> top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer
> of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mountget
> three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
> place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
> than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to
> the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick atthe
> bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
>
> Thanks for ideas.
>
> Stefan
>
You can coat them with a little beeswax to keep the screws from
sticking, but why not just use Tee-nuts?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
sticking, but why not just use Tee-nuts?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@o...>
wrote:
>this
> Dear All,
>
> since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that
> list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat buildingthan
> the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directlycan
> Bolger related:
>
> With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
>
> I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I
> mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.diameter
>
> What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
> diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
> top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer
> of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mountget
> three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
> place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
> than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to
> the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick atthe
> bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
>
> Thanks for ideas.
>
> Stefan
>
go to the following site:
http://www.westsystem.com/
Select using West Epoxy and then select Basic Techniques. There is a
section there on bonding fasteners in place. They regularly bond high
load fasteners with epoxy...
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
http://www.westsystem.com/
Select using West Epoxy and then select Basic Techniques. There is a
section there on bonding fasteners in place. They regularly bond high
load fasteners with epoxy...
Paul Esterle - Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7/Matilda 20
North East MD
www.captnpauley.com
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Dear All,
since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building than
the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directly
Bolger related:
With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
Thanks for ideas.
Stefan
since I know of no wooden boat builders list, and it seems that this
list has more members experienced in amateur wooden boat building than
the other lists, allow me to ask here, though it is not directly
Bolger related:
With what can I cover a screw that it doesn't stick to Epoxy?
I am thinking about glueing nuts into the sheer rails, so that I can
mount e.g. a bimini top, or all kinds of other gimmicks.
What I plan, is to drill holes from top into the logs, with the
diameter of the screws (i.e. 6mm, about 1/4"). Then I'd enlarge the
top of the hole, to the depth of about 3 nuts, to the outer diameter
of the corresponding nuts (i.e. 11mm, nearly 1/2"). Then I'd mount
three nuts onto a screw and glue the whole assembly with Epoxy in
place. Thin Epoxy like for surface coating will probably be better
than thick fillet-Epoxy. But when the Epoxy is cured, I'd need to get
the screw out again. What can I do that the screw doesn't stick at the
bottom part to the Epoxy? What about spray coating it with oil?
Thanks for ideas.
Stefan