Re: [bolger] Epoxy and vinegar
There was a day a couple of summers ago when I ran out of stainless screws
in the middle of a boatbuilding session. Jumping into the truck, I drove the
hour or so to the nearest supplier. Walking out of the store, I ran my hand
through my hair. The sticky gobbet I encountered was [of course] epoxy, and
in the summer heat, it could only be a short time before it congealed.
Forseeing imminent 'boat-builder pattern' baldness, I ran into the nearest
fast food joint, which happened to be a sub-sandwich emporium:
"Do you dress your salads with vinegar?"
"Uh, yeah, red wine vine..."
"Please give me some in a cup"
The staff no doubt entertained their friends with the story of the guy who
asked for a cup of vinegar and then with obvious pleasure, poured it over
his own head.
Good stuff, vinegar.
cheers
Derek
in the middle of a boatbuilding session. Jumping into the truck, I drove the
hour or so to the nearest supplier. Walking out of the store, I ran my hand
through my hair. The sticky gobbet I encountered was [of course] epoxy, and
in the summer heat, it could only be a short time before it congealed.
Forseeing imminent 'boat-builder pattern' baldness, I ran into the nearest
fast food joint, which happened to be a sub-sandwich emporium:
"Do you dress your salads with vinegar?"
"Uh, yeah, red wine vine..."
"Please give me some in a cup"
The staff no doubt entertained their friends with the story of the guy who
asked for a cup of vinegar and then with obvious pleasure, poured it over
his own head.
Good stuff, vinegar.
cheers
Derek
When I was working at Cutts and Case in Oxford, MD we didn't mess around with that sissy, environmentally friendly vinegar or even alcohol. No sirree, Bob. We were real men and cleaned up with acetone. Did it all the time and I never had any probpe,wmdaodkslmmmswselkfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:
I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
well as clean vinegar.
It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
epoxy into soap!
No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
Hope some parts are of interest to you.
Eric
From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
Subject: RE: Support Request Form
Reply-To: <support@...>
See below:
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253/333-8118
www.systemthree.com
Request =
Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
using vinegar, I
will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
numbers about 2720
members.
I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
vinegar for cleaning up
unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
equally well at
cleaning up mixed but uncured.
A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
hardeners contain amines.
Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
materials. In the case of
epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
material that can emulsify
the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.
Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
when it gets through the
gloves.
A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
never get it on your
hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
gloves unless they tear.
When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
wipe your hands and then
wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
disposable glove when
your hands are dry.
Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
the epoxy and help carry
it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
like it reacts
chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
disappears at first contact
with the vinegar.
A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
wiping your epoxy covered
hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
sensitized than if
you'd used a solvent.
Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
the best cleanup for the
entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
brushes and mixing
vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
is not as volatile as
the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
to use on the boat.
A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
mind if their boat smells
like a freshly tossed salad!
Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
first line of defense should
be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
to clean your hands
with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
line has failed and you
have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
prolonged and REPEATED
exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.
Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
plywood is much easier if
the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
plastic dropsheet.
Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
from the angle and may
leave air bubbles under the cloth.
Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
edge and the plastic
prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
man's vacuum bag!
A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
between the fiberglass and
plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
of the fiberglass.
Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
does not leave a mark.
__________________________________________________
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Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:
I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
well as clean vinegar.
It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
epoxy into soap!
No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
Hope some parts are of interest to you.
Eric
From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
Subject: RE: Support Request Form
Reply-To: <support@...>
See below:
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253/333-8118
www.systemthree.com
Request =
Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
using vinegar, I
will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
numbers about 2720
members.
I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
vinegar for cleaning up
unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
equally well at
cleaning up mixed but uncured.
A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
hardeners contain amines.
Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
materials. In the case of
epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
material that can emulsify
the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.
Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
when it gets through the
gloves.
A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
never get it on your
hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
gloves unless they tear.
When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
wipe your hands and then
wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
disposable glove when
your hands are dry.
Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
the epoxy and help carry
it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
like it reacts
chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
disappears at first contact
with the vinegar.
A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
wiping your epoxy covered
hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
sensitized than if
you'd used a solvent.
Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
the best cleanup for the
entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
brushes and mixing
vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
is not as volatile as
the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
to use on the boat.
A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
mind if their boat smells
like a freshly tossed salad!
Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
first line of defense should
be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
to clean your hands
with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
line has failed and you
have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
prolonged and REPEATED
exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.
Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
plywood is much easier if
the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
plastic dropsheet.
Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
from the angle and may
leave air bubbles under the cloth.
Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
edge and the plastic
prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
man's vacuum bag!
A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
between the fiberglass and
plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
of the fiberglass.
Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
does not leave a mark.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
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---------------------------------
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Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
experience proving it works. If you get epoxy in your hair go take a
shower, bypass the shampoo and go straight to conditioner. The
conditioner seems to work just like vinegar and washes the epoxy right
out.
fritz
wrote:
>I don't remember where exactly I heard this but I have actual
> --- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@c...> wrote:
>
> > If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you
> > can't really
> > appreciate vinegar. Clyde
> >
> Shears work pretty good, too, applied liberally, in my
> experience. Sam
experience proving it works. If you get epoxy in your hair go take a
shower, bypass the shampoo and go straight to conditioner. The
conditioner seems to work just like vinegar and washes the epoxy right
out.
fritz
--- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
experience. Sam
__________________________________________________
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> If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, youShears work pretty good, too, applied liberally, in my
> can't really
> appreciate vinegar. Clyde
>
experience. Sam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you can't really
appreciate vinegar. Clyde
Eric OHiggins wrote:
appreciate vinegar. Clyde
Eric OHiggins wrote:
>I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
>and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
>
>
>
>
>
>
I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
well as clean vinegar.
It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
epoxy into soap!
No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
Hope some parts are of interest to you.
Eric
From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
Subject: RE: Support Request Form
Reply-To: <support@...>
See below:
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253/333-8118
www.systemthree.com
Request =
Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
using vinegar, I
will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
numbers about 2720
members.
I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
vinegar for cleaning up
unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
equally well at
cleaning up mixed but uncured.
A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
hardeners contain amines.
Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
materials. In the case of
epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
material that can emulsify
the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.
Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
when it gets through the
gloves.
A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
never get it on your
hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
gloves unless they tear.
When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
wipe your hands and then
wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
disposable glove when
your hands are dry.
Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
the epoxy and help carry
it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
like it reacts
chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
disappears at first contact
with the vinegar.
A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
wiping your epoxy covered
hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
sensitized than if
you'd used a solvent.
Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
the best cleanup for the
entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
brushes and mixing
vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
is not as volatile as
the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
to use on the boat.
A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
mind if their boat smells
like a freshly tossed salad!
Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
first line of defense should
be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
to clean your hands
with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
line has failed and you
have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
prolonged and REPEATED
exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.
Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
plywood is much easier if
the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
plastic dropsheet.
Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
from the angle and may
leave air bubbles under the cloth.
Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
edge and the plastic
prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
man's vacuum bag!
A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
between the fiberglass and
plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
of the fiberglass.
Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
does not leave a mark.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
well as clean vinegar.
It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
epoxy into soap!
No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
Hope some parts are of interest to you.
Eric
From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
Subject: RE: Support Request Form
Reply-To: <support@...>
See below:
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253/333-8118
www.systemthree.com
Request =
Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
using vinegar, I
will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
numbers about 2720
members.
I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
vinegar for cleaning up
unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
equally well at
cleaning up mixed but uncured.
A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
hardeners contain amines.
Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
materials. In the case of
epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
material that can emulsify
the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.
Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
when it gets through the
gloves.
A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
never get it on your
hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
gloves unless they tear.
When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
wipe your hands and then
wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
disposable glove when
your hands are dry.
Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
the epoxy and help carry
it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
like it reacts
chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
disappears at first contact
with the vinegar.
A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
wiping your epoxy covered
hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
sensitized than if
you'd used a solvent.
Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
the best cleanup for the
entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
brushes and mixing
vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
is not as volatile as
the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
to use on the boat.
A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
mind if their boat smells
like a freshly tossed salad!
Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
first line of defense should
be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
to clean your hands
with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
line has failed and you
have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
prolonged and REPEATED
exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.
Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
plywood is much easier if
the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
plastic dropsheet.
Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
from the angle and may
leave air bubbles under the cloth.
Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
edge and the plastic
prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
man's vacuum bag!
A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
between the fiberglass and
plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
of the fiberglass.
Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
does not leave a mark.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Raka has a new non-blushing hardener. Actualy it is all I have used
from RAKA. I use it in my garage in the winter. As a result it gets
used in cold damp conditions. I have never had any trouble with
blushing from that hardener. I have also used MAS and consider it to
be first rate. I would just encourage you to try RAKA's new hardener.
I find it combined with there thin resin to be just as good as MAS and
for a much lower cost.
from RAKA. I use it in my garage in the winter. As a result it gets
used in cold damp conditions. I have never had any trouble with
blushing from that hardener. I have also used MAS and consider it to
be first rate. I would just encourage you to try RAKA's new hardener.
I find it combined with there thin resin to be just as good as MAS and
for a much lower cost.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@n...> wrote:
>
> I started with Raka on my Windsprint. It blushed so badly that I never
> was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor
> area of glass cloth peel off now and then. I confess that I built in an
> especially humid spring (and outdoors), but I've since used MAS in
> similar conditions and had no problem with blushing. To me it's worth
> paying twice as much and not putting up with the scrubbing, sanding,
> scraping that goes with a formulation that blushes readily. Of course,
> if you are building in the desert, YMMV.
>
> Patrick
>
> Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> >FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
> >
> >Raka sells at $44/gal
> >Duckworks $45/gal
> >and Aeromarine $36/gal
> >
> >[plus shipping]
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead horses
> >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I like US Composites 2:1 Blush free hardener with thin resin. I find
this is as thin and workable as West System but half the price at
about $31.00-$36.00 per gallon depending on how much you buy. With US
Composites, RAKA and others I am amazed that West System is still in
business.
Chris
this is as thin and workable as West System but half the price at
about $31.00-$36.00 per gallon depending on how much you buy. With US
Composites, RAKA and others I am amazed that West System is still in
business.
Chris
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
> FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
>
> Raka sells at $44/gal
> Duckworks $45/gal
> and Aeromarine $36/gal
>
> [plus shipping]
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
>
http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html
I have had great luck with epoxy purchased here. the 1.5 galloon kit is $56 so about $38 a gallon at that quantity. Price varies up and down with quantity. The have thick and thin, fast and slow. I use the 2:1 slow stuff and take my time letting it cure. Oh, and I have never had a problem with or seen any amine blush that I know of with the slow stuff. Otherwise, I'd go to duckworks....
Gene T.
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 13:56:46
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Cheap epoxy
many things!
I have had great luck with epoxy purchased here. the 1.5 galloon kit is $56 so about $38 a gallon at that quantity. Price varies up and down with quantity. The have thick and thin, fast and slow. I use the 2:1 slow stuff and take my time letting it cure. Oh, and I have never had a problem with or seen any amine blush that I know of with the slow stuff. Otherwise, I'd go to duckworks....
Gene T.
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 13:56:46
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Cheap epoxy
> Try this site:http://www.fgci.com/The prices look good, but their website leaves you guessing about too
many things!
I started with Raka on my Windsprint. It blushed so badly that I never
was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor
area of glass cloth peel off now and then. I confess that I built in an
especially humid spring (and outdoors), but I've since used MAS in
similar conditions and had no problem with blushing. To me it's worth
paying twice as much and not putting up with the scrubbing, sanding,
scraping that goes with a formulation that blushes readily. Of course,
if you are building in the desert, YMMV.
Patrick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor
area of glass cloth peel off now and then. I confess that I built in an
especially humid spring (and outdoors), but I've since used MAS in
similar conditions and had no problem with blushing. To me it's worth
paying twice as much and not putting up with the scrubbing, sanding,
scraping that goes with a formulation that blushes readily. Of course,
if you are building in the desert, YMMV.
Patrick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
>
>Raka sells at $44/gal
>Duckworks $45/gal
>and Aeromarine $36/gal
>
>[plus shipping]
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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> Try this site:http://www.fgci.com/The prices look good, but their website leaves you guessing about too
many things!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Epoxy there is about $33 a gallon for 1:1 and slightly more for their
2:1, 3:1 & 4:1. They make two 1:1 varieties, one intended for gluing
and fiberglassing and the other just for coating wood. The former is
a thick epoxy and if I'm using it for coating, I usually thin it a
little with acetone. For fiberglassing, use a plastic spreader as it
goes on too thick with a brush and I don't like to thin it if using
it for gluing or fiberglassing. I've used this stuff on 3-4 boats
without a problem.
Couple caveats: the thick 1:1 didn't work well with some carbon fiber
I'm using while playing around strengthening a carbon windsurfer
mast. I had to go with the much thinner WEST epoxy for good results.
(The higher ration FGCI may be thinner and have worked, but I haven't
used them and didn't have any on hand.) Also, if you order, specify
getting it in plastic bottles. They used to (and may still) ship it
in paint cans if you don't specify, which makes pouring and measuring
a messy pain . . .
Gary Blankenship
>Try this site:http://www.fgci.com/
> FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
>
> Raka sells at $44/gal
> Duckworks $45/gal
> and Aeromarine $36/gal
>
> [plus shipping]
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
>
Epoxy there is about $33 a gallon for 1:1 and slightly more for their
2:1, 3:1 & 4:1. They make two 1:1 varieties, one intended for gluing
and fiberglassing and the other just for coating wood. The former is
a thick epoxy and if I'm using it for coating, I usually thin it a
little with acetone. For fiberglassing, use a plastic spreader as it
goes on too thick with a brush and I don't like to thin it if using
it for gluing or fiberglassing. I've used this stuff on 3-4 boats
without a problem.
Couple caveats: the thick 1:1 didn't work well with some carbon fiber
I'm using while playing around strengthening a carbon windsurfer
mast. I had to go with the much thinner WEST epoxy for good results.
(The higher ration FGCI may be thinner and have worked, but I haven't
used them and didn't have any on hand.) Also, if you order, specify
getting it in plastic bottles. They used to (and may still) ship it
in paint cans if you don't specify, which makes pouring and measuring
a messy pain . . .
Gary Blankenship
Nels
You can customize the scale to your own taste, so long as you adhere
to the principle of the thing. I am a minimalist so I like to keeep it
simple. BTW, hull #36 in progress, a 20ft White strip canoe from
Gilpatrick's book for a friend . Duckworks forum would be my choice to
bring it public.
Joe T
You can customize the scale to your own taste, so long as you adhere
to the principle of the thing. I am a minimalist so I like to keeep it
simple. BTW, hull #36 in progress, a 20ft White strip canoe from
Gilpatrick's book for a friend . Duckworks forum would be my choice to
bring it public.
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>> I see you have only built 35 boats. So I wonder if it is well
>>enough proven yet?
>
> Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.
>
> Would drawing a circle the same size as the washer and exactly
> centered over each line be useful for a guy has trouble seeing
> straight?
>
> I'm thinking of if Lenihan uses it;-)
>
> Nels
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@y...> wrote:
> >
> > My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
> >http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
> > shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
> > whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May
> > 05.
> > I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to
> > have it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that
> > great e-zine he provides for free.
> >
> > Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@y...> wrote:
proven yet?
Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.
Would drawing a circle the same size as the washer and exactly
centered over each line be useful for a guy has trouble seeing
straight?
I'm thinking of if Lenihan uses it;-)
Nels
>05.
> My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
> shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
> whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May
>I see you have only built 35 boats. So I wonder if it is well enough
> I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to have
> it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that the great
> e-zine he provides for free.
>
> Joe T
proven yet?
Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.
Would drawing a circle the same size as the washer and exactly
centered over each line be useful for a guy has trouble seeing
straight?
I'm thinking of if Lenihan uses it;-)
Nels
My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May 05.
I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to have
it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that the great
e-zine he provides for free.
Joe T
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May 05.
I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to have
it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that the great
e-zine he provides for free.
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
> I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
> 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
> *very* appealing to me!
>
Hi Bruce,
I also noticed the price he quotes for "boat cloth" as being quite
reasonable. $4 a yard for 50" 5.8 oz. I have heard there are some
glassing materials coming from China that are very cheap, but the
quality is not up the standards of American cloth. So this would be
interesting to enquire about as well as which epoxy to use with it.
Nels
I also noticed the price he quotes for "boat cloth" as being quite
reasonable. $4 a yard for 50" 5.8 oz. I have heard there are some
glassing materials coming from China that are very cheap, but the
quality is not up the standards of American cloth. So this would be
interesting to enquire about as well as which epoxy to use with it.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> >
> > I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
> > 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
> > *very* appealing to me!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
newer one of the two, so one has to wonder why it was developed?
I would call the toll-free number if ordering and find out which
would be the best for pre-coating and sealing plywood. Also filling
glass cloth.
Perhaps the 2:1 ration type has more penetration ability? He terms
the red one as having "a medium syrup viscosity" but does not
mention the viscosity of the green type.
He also mentions the green version as 'Great for building a "Stitch
and Glue" boat, Cedar strip kayak or canoe as well as for cold
molded wood boat or fiberglass boats-' But does not say why...
Most companies prescribe a low viscosity type for penetrating and
sealing wood.
So maybe the red for sealing and the green for glueing and if you
want a heavier coating? I could imagine the green as a great bottom
coat mixed with carbon powder:-)
Nels
>Yes I would agree that 1:1 epoxy would be ideal and the 2:1 is the
> I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
> 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
> *very* appealing to me!
newer one of the two, so one has to wonder why it was developed?
I would call the toll-free number if ordering and find out which
would be the best for pre-coating and sealing plywood. Also filling
glass cloth.
Perhaps the 2:1 ration type has more penetration ability? He terms
the red one as having "a medium syrup viscosity" but does not
mention the viscosity of the green type.
He also mentions the green version as 'Great for building a "Stitch
and Glue" boat, Cedar strip kayak or canoe as well as for cold
molded wood boat or fiberglass boats-' But does not say why...
Most companies prescribe a low viscosity type for penetrating and
sealing wood.
So maybe the red for sealing and the green for glueing and if you
want a heavier coating? I could imagine the green as a great bottom
coat mixed with carbon powder:-)
Nels
> That doesn't seem to be the kind he recommends for boatbuildingHis 'red' mixes 1:1 and quote "...is widely used by people building
> though.
>http://www.jgreer.com/
> Nels
boats, airplanes..."
His 'green' mixes 2:1 and quote "ideal for many functions- Boat and
aircraft building, "poured" countertops and general fiberglass and
carbon fiber laminating."
I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
*very* appealing to me!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
though. It is $40/G still cheaper than others depending on shipping
distances of course.
http://www.jgreer.com/
Nels
>That doesn't seem to be the kind he recommends for boatbuilding
> FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
>
> Raka sells at $44/gal
> Duckworks $45/gal
> and Aeromarine $36/gal
>
> [plus shipping]
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
>
though. It is $40/G still cheaper than others depending on shipping
distances of course.
http://www.jgreer.com/
Nels
FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
Raka sells at $44/gal
Duckworks $45/gal
and Aeromarine $36/gal
[plus shipping]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
Raka sells at $44/gal
Duckworks $45/gal
and Aeromarine $36/gal
[plus shipping]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877